Fraudy Feelings that Come with Perspective

February 16, 2018

We hit record in the middle of this business bestie conversation about having fraudy feelings even as you gain perspective with age and experience. This conversation is off-the-cuff, talking about showing up to do the work and releasing expectations of what the payoff will be.

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"If you want to be moving forward, you have to show up."
- Emily Thompson


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Braid Creative

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Almanac Supply Co.


Kathleen Shannon 0:02
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Kathleen Shannon 0:52
Okay, so Emily, we were just having like a business bestie conversation. And I was like, let's hit record,

Emily Thompson 0:59
right? Because we're talking intentions. And it's such a big part of how we are boss. And we've talked about wanting to share more of these kinds of conversations on the podcast. So we just hit record, there's no agenda, you're guys, I have no idea what Kathleen is about to tell me. So what's up, Kathleen?

Kathleen Shannon 1:19
Well, something that's been on my mind is I think that through 2017, I had some like, underlying fraudy feelings. And I think that some of it comes from a place of being humble. And as I get older and wiser, it's like that idea of the more you know, the more you know, you don't know, right? So I feel like there has to be this certain element of almost like naive at or, you know, even we do Tarot, and like the fool, like the fool comes in at zero. And, you know, it kind of has like that energy and just wanting to create something. And I very much came into my whole world of creative entrepreneurship, like that. Like I remember day one of leaving my agency day job and working for myself feeling that way. But now I feel like as I've grown and matured as a creative entrepreneur, some of those fraudy feelings, like you think that they would go away with some of that maturity and experience. But in some ways, I feel like they've gotten worse, because again, I think I'm mature enough to know that there is so much I don't know. So I just kind of want to hear your thoughts, therapy sesh.

Emily Thompson 2:37
I love this because I felt the same thing. It's also brings me this brings me to a sort of conversation I've been having with myself also over the past year, and I think that's along these lines of like, I can't decide if we're learning to adult. Right? Or if like, everyone is sort of waking up, you know, like, and I feel like that's been sort of a big conversation that lots of people have been having of like, everyone becoming so much more aware of their intentions and the energy around them, and like really sort of seeing the world as it really is, as opposed to like hiding behind what they want the world to look like. And so is that us coming of age? And like Finally, like adulting? Or is this something that is like cross generational, where there's more, it's more than just like our age group that's experiencing this? Because I agree, I think that well, I agree in terms of me not speaking for everyone, where last year was pretty filled with frosty feelings in that you know, we you stepped up and did some like big things in our careers. But also personally like we both had some especially you had some huge transitions in your personal life. And I think we'll taking yourself out of those comfort zones is natural for bringing up those frosty feelings. Um, and I also it also is also brings up a tarot reading that I think I had while we were in New Orleans around this idea, because I know this is something you struggled with, especially throughout the book process and something that I did as well though probably not as vocally as you did around the difference of, of your ego, and then standing up for what you're worth. So this idea of like, what is the difference? And how can you tell the difference between you know, your ego and what, you know, how your ego is asserting yourself and how like, you need to be backing away from that versus how you asserting your own worth, is completely separate from your ego and has nothing to do with it. So that's I don't know if that's therapy sesh me hearing back do you exactly what you just said.

Kathleen Shannon 4:53
I think another thing that just keeps coming up for me is that our amount of time on earth is so finite and As human beings, like we're all just constantly bumbling around trying to figure it out. And a lot of my creative process, as a creative entrepreneur, is figuring it out in front of a lot of people. I feel like that's what I've been called here to do. And I feel like as human beings, we're probably constantly two steps forward one step back, because people die, or people learn new things, or the world evolves in different ways. And we have to learn new lessons. But in general, we're all learning the same lessons over and over again, with each human iteration that we come here with, if you believe in reincarnation, or if, you know, if you've got one life, there's only so much that you can learn like I even look at Fox and you probably look at Lily, and there are these little kids just trying to figure it out. And there is this element like of If you only knew what I knew now, and we're trying to teach them, but they kind of have to figure it out on their own. And we have to figure this stuff out on our own as well. And we can't, or at least I can't let the fear of not already knowing all of it, hold me back from learning what I need to learn teaching what I need to teach and doing it all out loud on this podcast, or in a book or on blog posts. Even though as I get older, I feel like I know less and less even as I master my craft and get more comfortable that almost serves that more frosty feelings like am I just resting on my laurels? There's something about creating something new that has this energy around it where I'm not afraid. I think it's like, as I'm, you know, going into my fifth sixth seventh years of business, that I'm like, Okay, what am I really creating here? What am I really making? And how does, how does it really matter? Yeah,

Emily Thompson 6:53
I love that one. I feel like the lesson of that is regardless, Friday feelings are no, you have to show up. If you want to keep moving forward, you have to show up, whether it's a good day or a bad day, whether you're excited about it or not. Like regardless of what's going on. And I think I think that's a super powerful thing. And something we obviously talk about a lot here is like regardless, or irregardless, you have to show up time after time. There was another thought I was having there

Kathleen Shannon 7:25
Well, I wanted to say that showing up is the thing that I keep coming back to as well like it, okay, maybe it doesn't even matter if this is good or bad or important or not. Like if I can just keep showing up. That's the one consistent thing that I've been able to do that has worked for me time and time again, is how I've put in my 10,000 hours and put one step in front of the other to actually make something that I think is impactful and has meaning is to just keep showing up.

Emily Thompson 7:54
Yeah, I agree. I was also I was talking to someone yesterday, we were talking about, you know, as, as I'm starting my next company, and how just running into little roadblocks all along the way as you do and you expect to and I've gone into this completely expecting to one of the things that that we take for granted, as people who have been in this 5678 910 years, whatever it may be, is we take for granted how easy it all is once it's going. And like taking moments to sit back and appreciate that like, especially your being boss, like if we want to do something new, it's not anything to do it, like we just you know, call up some people or write some emails or, you know, put pen to paper, whatever we need to do, and it gets done. Whereas for people who are just starting out, it's significantly harder just do like there's so there's like, these precise steps you have to take to get that momentum going to put you in that place where creating over and over again, is as easy. And that definitely is something that I've taken for granted. And I see that now as I'm trying to start something new how the momentum is missing in those new endeavors. But that doesn't keep me from showing up and doing it over and over and over again. It's an interesting thing that I hadn't I hadn't thought about, but it's absolutely present.

Kathleen Shannon 9:16
I know, you know, I feel like I feel like as I get more sophisticated in business with systems and processes and all of that the more like front loaded all the work feels like the more complicated it is. I mean, whenever I first started my business, I just needed my laptop and Adobe Creative Suite. And you know, some fresh books cloud accounting, like really simple systems that were easy enough to use but now it's like project management as you grow your team. I mean you have to you have to get so organized my time is more limited, especially with you know, taking on more roles or having more businesses or having a family now and I guess that that's where I kind of am getting a Little bogged down is now in seeing like how much work goes into really keeping everything organized in a way that it has to be to be successful. I mean, it's just so much work. And I knew this going into it, you know, six or seven years ago, like, I learned quickly that the actual creative part of it is maybe 10% of my day. And that, you know, the other rest of my work day is dedicated toward just staying organized. And that's that like, kind of adulting part of it. Yeah, like so. Right? It almost keeps me from wanting to create anything new, because I'm like, Oh, my gosh, there's so much work that's going to go into that, and even watching you start this new business, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, and that's

Emily Thompson 10:46
a three month long, fraudy feeling like fear fest for me, for sure was like, I don't want to do this again, why would I want to start from scratch all over again, for sure. But like, but I think, again, the thing is, like, you just show up, like, you make the decision, and you just show up every single day until it starts to it starts to pay off, and then even then you're still showing up every single day. I agree. I agree with everything you're saying. And you know, 2017 was a year where we both up leveled everything about our lives and works work and life's life's, you know what I mean? Both those things that we do. Um, and, you know, we both encountered frati feelings all along the way. But we also have both been putting in the work to build structures to support us whenever we need to lean on something, because we can't hold ourselves up, you know. And that's one of the things that, you know, coming into 2018, I'm most grateful for, like, I feel a kind of gratitude for like our partnership, and our team, and family and all of those things that I have probably not really felt before, because I can look back at last year and see that they were the ones that held me up as I like, made transitions and did big things and like had to check out on some things I can focus on others, whatever it may be. We've built the structures that can support us in pivoting, or taking a moment to notice or whatever it needs to be whenever we need to do it, which is totally worth all the hard work and systems meetings. We've, over the past couple of years.

Kathleen Shannon 12:28
I think that there's also a mindset thing that comes into fraudy feelings, and that is perspective. Like I think that I've done a really great job of surrounding myself with a bubble of creatives who are incredibly like minded, and you know, they're really going for it. But also what that means is that I've lost perspective on people who are not in our bubble, and I'm talking about bubbles across the board on many different levels, even politically, or, you know, like socio economically, like, I'm just kind of surrounded by a lot of people who are doing what I'm doing. As far as like creative entrepreneurship, they're hustling, like I'm hustling. And most of them are liberal and, you know, socially aware and conscious and just forgetting that the whole world isn't like that. You know, and so I kind of almost need some more perspective of what it is like to work a day job and not feel the freedom. I mean, I remember we were having a conversation about valuing freedom. And that was like one of those things that I was taking for granted, where I was like, I really need to think about that, because my schedule is so flexible and free, or at least, you know, within the I've set it to my own terms, like it doesn't always feel incredibly flexible or free because I've set boundaries and parameters as a container to work within for myself.

Emily Thompson 13:56
But you created those yourself,

Kathleen Shannon 13:57
I created it myself. And there was like a huge amount of freedom in that. And so then just getting to hi just want to talk to more people and see you know, where they're coming from and what their lives are like. And I think that includes like more, you know, conversations with creatives. I was even listening to a podcast this morning with this guy who made an intention last year to have 252 hour conversations with different people. So it's like sit down and have a two hour conversation. I mean, that would basically be like a podcast,

Emily Thompson 14:33
right? 50 of them. That's fine. No number of podcasts we recorded last year. That's five times.

Kathleen Shannon 14:41
I do think you know like I've been like hopping on the phone with my friend Jessica Merman or texting with my friend Jesse or Teague or you know, even our conversations, it's easy to take our business bestie conversations for granted because we're in a partnership. Now we see each other all the time, right, like we're starting to know each other by the back of our hand. It is like talking to other people that we don't know what their entire story is or what they're struggling with. And it's just making me realize more. So the value of that perspective and seeing where other people are coming from and even beyond your own little bubbles of creative entrepreneurship, right? Maybe

Emily Thompson 15:18
this is like a new version of adulting, or lives, like, where adulting, you know, 5, 10 years ago, I think this is like, definitely every generation, you know, there's, there's new perspectives to add to your perspective, I can use this, like, the world grows, the number of humans on it grow. And the the challenges we all face grow, were like, our version of adulting has to be so much more aware of everything or, and we have the opportunities to be so much more aware of everything. And it is overwhelming. Like sometimes I find myself missing or not missing, because I guess personally at the moment wasn't there, but is a simpler time.

Kathleen Shannon 16:05
When I don't know that times were ever simple. Like, I think that that's kind of a little bit of a misnomer. I mean, there were things that I don't, that I'm so grateful that I don't have to do. Like, I'm so grateful for the internet and the speed of communication

Emily Thompson 16:19
refrigerator fully stocked with food at all time, right?

Kathleen Shannon 16:22
I think that's the thing I miss is something that I was alive for, which is probably I heard a quote once, and this has been my experience, like up until 25. You're just living your life. Yeah. And then from 25, on, you're thinking about living your life. And so like, there's this amount of awareness that happens, that is good, like that is good for people to be aware. But sometimes I miss just living my life, like just taking, making those jumps, instead of thinking about making those jumps and what impact that's gonna have on my life five years from now, and how that's going to impact my kid. And I sound so selfish right now being like, I wish I could just think about myself.

Emily Thompson 17:03
Well, least you're saying that you're not just doing it.

Kathleen Shannon 17:06
But I think that, you know, as we grow our businesses, and we grow as leaders, and as human beings, it's like, what, how is what we're doing have an impact on the whole world for better. And I think that that can be overwhelming and paralyzing. But the mantra that keeps showing up in the face of these fraudy feelings, for me is exactly what you said, which is to keep showing up, but then also to trust that the effort is going to pay off in one way or another because it's easy to also feel like you're creating in a vacuum. And what's it all for? And is this, you know, effecting change, does this matter? Everybody has those feelings,

Emily Thompson 17:46
I agree. And I also want to throw something in there, because one of the things that I've discovered, especially over the past couple of years is that like trusting the process, and that it will pay off, one of the things that I've had to Super release, is that the idea that it's going to pay off in the way that I expected to, or the way that I wanted to, like really just going at things with the idea that it's going to pay off in ways that I like, I have no idea. And like releasing that expectation, whether it's, you know, like, I'm going to be creating this course, because the first time I launch and is gonna, you know, be five, like mid five figures, like that'd be great, like, no, maybe not, but it's gonna pay off, you know, in ways where I'm going to make connections that I never had before, or whatever it may be like releasing, releasing the expectation of what the payoff will look like, has been a pivotal point of like adulting for me, and really just being open to it paying off. However, however it needs to, for me, whatever time it is, because that one's really important. I think that's the one that stops a lot of people in their tracks. And the one that makes a lot of people are really resentful of the process is that it's not paying off in the way that they wanted to, and just expected to pay off not that it will in a way that you can define.

Kathleen Shannon 19:03
And like this makes me this makes me miss the days of blogging without caring about monetizing. Like, just creativity, for creativity. And I think that's what I'm missing a lot of lately is creativity for creativity sake, because I have become such an entrepreneur and because profit is important. And it is a good way to affect change is to have a profitable business as a creative entrepreneur. And so, again, like I think that just as I get older time is more limited because it's moving faster. What is that about getting older, that makes time move faster,

Emily Thompson 19:38
right? They're gonna meditate. Meditate, learn to control time.

Kathleen Shannon 19:44
All right, well. Now, let's wrap this up. I just wanted to hop on and record this so that anyone else who's struggling with fraudy feelings no matter where you're at on your path. is totally normal.

Emily Thompson 20:02
Yeah, for sure. And also, I just need to take a moment to like show some gratitude for like having someone in my life with which I can have conversations like this like just off the cuff like saying crazy shit that we're feeling and hoping and no judgment and just doing it and for anyone listening is desiring a relationship like that. Put it out in there in the universe. See what happens because yeah, and just pick up the phone like it takes effort. It does take effort, right for sure. Because I do think that conversations like this are what makes it easier to deal with all of it. Because I don't think it's hard guy. Yeah. Thanks, Kathleen.

Kathleen Shannon 20:45
Thank you, Emily.

Kathleen Shannon 20:50
This minisode was brought to you by Twenty20. Check them out at, that's t w e n t y 20 as in the slash being boss.

Emily Thompson 21:04
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