Emily Thompson 0:02
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Kathleen Shannon 1:09
Welcome to being boss, today's minisode comes live from Toronto, when we hung out with over 100 bosses in person at freshbooks headquarters.
speaker 3 1:25
How do I make the jump from full time to freelance?
Kathleen Shannon 1:29
ba ba putting your two weeks notice and jump right and you do it. We're not ever going to tell anyone to quit their day job.
Emily Thompson 1:40
We're definitely fans of the side hustle and like for sure you know having yourself build a successful like at least semi successful you're getting their freelance career before you make the jump is certainly the most responsible thing to do. But you can also jump and I think it's just trusting the process. Making sure that you have your ducks in a row like don't do this irresponsibly, like know what you're going to be doing. Having that paycheck on the side is certainly some security and gives you a place where you can start investing in your business before you're actually making money in your business, which can be a really great way to jumpstart what it is that you're doing though, Kathleen and I certainly love the idea of bootstrapping as much as possible for as long as possible. I think the struggle is usually just mindset, like more so than having the ability to do it. It's just convincing yourself that you have the ability to do it. So in that case, coach, someone to help you get the things in order. So you're comfortable with making the jump.
Kathleen Shannon 2:46
Yeah, I think that maybe having a few outlined like measurable concrete priorities that you need to have in place before you feel comfortable. So how much money do you need to have in savings before you feel comfortable, and how much of your business like how much of a portfolio Do you need before you're comfortable. And on that note, if you're working a full time job, and you have a side hustle, a creative career that you're working on that your full time job is funding, then only take on projects that you want to be known for. So it's really tempting to want to take on side projects just to prove that you can do it that from anyone that will maybe just pay you, but you want to really be particular to only take on projects that you would add to your portfolio, otherwise you're wasting time. Like if you have a full time job, you don't have a lot of time on the side. So only work on the things that you want to be known for.
Hi, my name is Lucretia. So I was freelancing. And I've always freelance throughout my career, just on the side as a copywriter. And because of pricing. I wasn't charging enough. I found myself back in a full time job. So in transitioning eventually back into my business. So would you give the same advice in that situation to if you've already been in business freelancing and want to transition back into that.
Kathleen Shannon 4:14
Okay, so you're a copywriter? Yes. And were you working on projects that were bore you like what kind of projects do you love working on as a copywriter? What's your favorite? What do you want to be known for?
I love e commerce, email marketing. And so taking product based businesses with a lot of personality and the beauty, lifestyle and beverage space, and working with them for website copy copy media, kids and email sequencing.
Kathleen Shannon 4:40
Oh, that's perfect because people with products are always like, how do I create a personal brand around this? How do I get personality into my product? So you're filling that niche? So could you could you only work on projects that you want to be known for?
Yes, that's what I'm working on now.
Kathleen Shannon 4:57
So just do that, but So yes, same advice. How much money do you feel like you need to have in the bank before you quit your job?
I'd like to have to be honest 12 to 15,000.
Kathleen Shannon 5:11
Okay, and then can you do the math to like price out? How many projects would I need to work on? Before I do this? How long could it take? Could you give yourself some concrete goals to get to that? 12 to 15,000? And Emily, feel free to pipe in if you have anything to add.
Yes, I could. And I have, and I think where I am failing in that area is when it comes down, like I love to sell, but when it comes to closing, I'm like, Oh, well, maybe $5 for this, like, you know, I mean, that popped up. But you see that? Yeah,
Kathleen Shannon 5:42
so Emily is really good at this closing the deal.
Emily Thompson 5:47
Yeah. So we haven't minisode called discounts are bullshit, you should probably go listen to that. Um, because whenever you are selling yourself, like you're communicating to your potential client, you're worth, if you diminish your own worth, you've shot yourself in the foot, and you're not getting paid to do the work that you would have been doing for the higher price, you're shooting yourself in the foot. So you can't do that. If someone is not going to pay what you are telling them you are worth, they are not your dream client, period. And that's not a project you're going to enjoy, there's going to be tons of resentment or resentment on both sides. And it's not going to be something you're going to want to can we communicate to future clients, about like this great project you did. And here's like, my portfolio pieces like it's not going to turn into that. So not only are you taking a cut on the price now, but you're taking a cut on the entire experience and your ability to enjoy the non monetary benefits of that project of having something awesome to share to sell to future clients. So become a good closer, and don't discount what you're doing. Because there's so much more at stake than just that one project. If they won't pay it, there will be another one who will. So like having that mindset shift of knowing what really is at stake, whenever you decide to go down on your price just a little bit to make it a little more enticing. The value of that goes away, when you realize what exactly it is that you are cutting out for or from the entire future is getting legit, from the entire future of your entire business. Right, which is why you're back in full time. So like my thing is learn to close. And really, that just means don't back down. Like if you know what you're worth, I actually have a fun little game that I like to play. Whenever I'm coaching clients to close better actually add 500 bucks to your price. Oh, right. Just Just do it
Kathleen Shannon 7:53
like in your mind or actually,
Emily Thompson 7:56
actually, okay, that way, if you do fall back into that little habit of cutting your price, cut it by 500 bucks, and you're still getting what you know your worth. But if you if they say yes, you're getting 500 extra bucks. And like do you think what you offer is worth 500? extra bucks?
Emily Thompson 8:13
then there's not going to be any icky weird feelings about it. So just go ahead and pat in your like, own wishy washiness with how it is that you close a deal and you'll never be cut again.
Kathleen Shannon 8:26
Okay, I have a few other tactics on closing the deal. My sister Tara at braid creative is really good at this. And so a few things. Whenever I've asked her like, how do you close the deal, she's told me money is only as weird as you make it. So like the more timid you are about your prices, the more timid people are going to be about paying them. So another thing that she says is to talk about money early and often. So you guys already know how much I charge. I talk about it early and often. And it is what it is. If you get apologetic about it, your potential clients going to feel that and they're gonna get in there, even if they don't consciously know it. So another thing that you might do is you Emily said, add $500. But imagine that you're charging double what you charge and get in that mindset, like my products worth $10,000, like my offerings were $10,000 even if you're only charging five, and then you feel like you're giving them a deal for five, or 5500. If you want to go in and add that 500 to it. So then so then you're in that mindset that you're doing them a favor at that price, right. Okay, so another thing that I like to do if someone is kind of iffy on price, but it seems like a really good project and we really want to work together, I asked myself, how am I being compensated if I do end up giving them a deal? And I also put in the contract things about creative control and about revisions because usually someone that's looking for a price break, like if they're really particular about that
Emily Thompson 9:52
they're going to be the worst clients, period. So cut down those revisions hard core Like they get one, maybe on a good day. But yes, so clients who will negotiate price are usually the most painful clients to work with. So contract that up.
Kathleen Shannon 10:13
So talk money early and often. And then something that Emily and I recently did for the being boss clubhouse, we just raised the price of that and restructured the offering, we spent three hours together working on our sales page. And by the end of it, we were so fired up and excited about what we were offering that we just had a lot of confidence around it. The hardest sell you will ever make it to yourself. If you are readable, right? If you are so sold on what it is that you offer, you will never even think about lowering the price because you know that it's worth it. And then it's probably worth more. So you might check out one of our new favorite websites is copy hackers. And do you follow that at all? I mean, you're a copywriter, but you might look into writing sales copy. And so sometimes I really need a template to see things like, okay, here's we're going to talk about the benefits. And here's we're going to talk about the objections. And here's what I'm gonna do some price anchoring. And I start to learn things I never, like maybe intuitively kind of was starting to do but never actually put into a formula like that. And so then like price anchoring is, for example, with the clubhouse someone asked us if we had any fraudy feelings about raising the price of it. And whenever Emily and I realized is actually the Cheapest
Emily Thompson 11:30
no, no, no, they were like, how are you dealing with your Friday feelings about the price of it. And Kathleen and I were like, what fraudy feelings, right?
Kathleen Shannon 11:39
We don't have any Friday feelings because it's actually the cheapest way you can work with us. So in that, that not only price anchors it for our potential client, but for ourselves, too. Does that help?
Yes, that helps a lot. And I need to use my pencils for myself. And not just for everybody else. And at that $500 Yeah,
Kathleen Shannon 12:00
there's other Kathleen has something to offer. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 12:04
Hi, I just wanted to share it to other tools in my toolbox. One of my coaches told me to create an alter ego. So anytime I'm in a business transaction, I actually get into state and I have a pen that I use, and I definitely have some power panties that I put on. And I'm like boss like no one's messing. So those are two things that I do I dress the part. Even if I'm on a phone, I'm standing up I'm negotiating when I'm standing up in like full on heels, my power panties, everything and then I have my secret pen. That's kind of what I use to trigger my alter ego and that's been like, game changing.
Kathleen Shannon 12:43
I mean, even Beyonce needs an alter ego, right? Like she's Sasha Fierce and it's Beyonce.
Emily Thompson 12:50
Hey, their bosses. Emily here to tell you about our new friends at ConvertKit. ConvertKit is an email marketing platform for bloggers, but I'll tell you some truth. I don't see myself as a blogger. Even though you can catch me once a week over on the beans boss blog. I share content on this podcast on the bean boss website and more notably to my newsletter list. Growing your email list and sharing content does not have to be overwhelming or full of too many options or buttons or settings. It can be easy for you to do and it really should be ConvertKit is known for their simple design, easy to use interface and powerful functionality tailored specifically to helping content creators grow their email list. If you're feeling overwhelmed by your current email marketing platform or worse, you're using that as an excuse to not be growing and nurturing your list, then we recommend you check out ConvertKit try Convert Kit for free for 30 days go to convertkit.com/beingboss to learn more. Did you like this minisode. Be sure to check us out on our website at beingboss.club, where you can find more from being boss including our full episodes minisodes and blog posts. And while you're there, be sure to sign up for our mailing list so that you can get access to behind the scenes and exclusive content from Kathleen and myself to help you be more boss in your work and life. Do the work the boss