Episode 1

Do the Work

January 5, 2015

Welcome to our very first episode of Being Boss – a podcast for creative entrepreneurs. In this episode, Kathleen and Emily share a little background on our journey to becoming friends and creative powerhouses in our businesses. The theme of this episode is all about “doing the work.” In other words, going from being just a creative to being a creative entrepreneur.

Learn More about the Topics Discussed in this Episode
"What separates the hobbyists from the professionals in the creative industry is doing the work."
- Kathleen Shannon

Discussed in this Episode

  • What does it mean to do the work?
  • Debunking the overnight success
  • Kathleen shares a story about her brother who is a sideshow performer from Coney Island, NY – he’s the ultimate example of a creative who is dedicated to doing the work
  • Emily shares a behind-the-scenes example of doing the work by getting transparent about her email newsletter strategy
  • We talk about characteristics of admirable boss-ladies who “do the work"
  • We discuss systems we have in place for doing the work when we’d rather be binging on Netflix
  • Finally, we share what you can expect on future podcasts what it’s like to run a creative, online business and Be Boss in today’s world


More from Kathleen

Braid Creative

More from Emily

Almanac Supply Co.


[00:00:02] Emily Thompson: Hey Bosses! We know you probably scrolled all the way back to episode one because no matter how many episodes we record, number one is always the most popular.

[00:00:12] Kathleen Shannon: And though we so appreciate you coming all the way back to the beginning to see what we're all about. We're here to tell you, that after hundreds of recordings and millions of downloads since this first episode, we've learned a lot.

[00:00:24] Emily Thompson: While we think that it's awesome that you want to start at episode one, we also encourage you to take some time to scroll through our feed and give some of our newer content a listen as well.

[00:00:36] Kathleen Shannon: Our sound quality is better, our voice is more refined and our point of view has gotten way more clear. To guide your adventures, here are some of our most popular episodes.

[00:00:47] Emily Thompson: Episode number forty two Vulnerability for Creatives with Brené Brown or episode one eleven Productivity and Intuition with Marie Forleo or episode one fifteen Finding Your Voice where we actually talk about how popular this first episode is and how much we've grown since we first recorded it. 

[00:01:08] Kathleen Shannon: And be sure to check out episode one hundred, where we do a recap of our favorites in our first hundred episodes.

[00:01:14] Emily Thompson: We totally invite you to begin here and see what we learned along the way. From sound engineering to the expertise we share but we promise it gets even better.

[00:01:23] Kathleen Shannon: Thanks for joining us and we hope you like the show.

[00:01:32] Kathleen Shannon: Hello. Welcome to Being Boss. This is Kathleen Shannon from Braid Creative.

[00:01:37] Emily Thompson: And Emily Thompson from Indie Shopography.

[00:01:40] Kathleen Shannon: So Emily and I decided to start a podcast together. We're calling it Being Boss, and it's for creative entrepreneurs who want to take their shit to the next level.

[00:01:50] Emily Thompson: Heck, yes. Absolutely.

[00:01:53] Kathleen Shannon: So Emily, you and I have been friends for how long now? 

[00:01:56] Emily Thompson: Oh, my God, I didn't expect that question. Four years, has it been four years?

[00:02:03] Kathleen Shannon: Maybe even five?

[00:02:05] Emily Thompson: Maybe even... No, not quite five, four years.

[00:02:08] Kathleen Shannon: Okay. So four years. So I think that we started off reading each other's blogs.

[00:02:13] Emily Thompson: Yes.

[00:02:14] Kathleen Shannon: And whenever I was still blogging about...

[00:02:17] Emily Thompson: Your hair.

[00:02:14] Kathleen Shannon: My hair. Making a home, learning how to cook...

[00:02:22]Emily Thompson: Yep.

[00:02:23] Kathleen Shannon: You're kind of... Were you lifestyle blogging?

[00:02:26] Emily Thompson: A little bit. I think I always sort of dabbled with the lifestyle blogging. But I think I was pretty hard into building the biz, at that time. And so it was lots of like, just really horrible, client blog posts that I go back and read now and they're not bad. But yeah, I was sort of really getting into sort of business blocking, I guess at that time. And I remember... I don't even remember how I found you. But I do remember being obsessed with your hair.

[00:02:55] Kathleen Shannon: And I didn't I didn't even have my dreadlocks then

[00:02:59] Emily Thompson: I know. No, you didn't. It was short and curly and blonde and fantastic. And you were also just starting... 

[00:03:08] Kathleen Shannon: I just started freelancing. Okay, so I was working on an advertising agency as a senior art director, and it was really fantastic job. But, um, I was over it. I was ready to be my own boss. So I quit my job. And I was blogging also about freelancing. My family is not entrepreneurial at all. And so it was a big scary leap and blogging about it was a way to share it. But unsuspectingly I was able to position myself as an expert in working for oneself.

[00:03:41] Emily Thompson: You are great at it.

[00:03:42] Kathleen Shannon: And everything has really grown from there. So I guess we were both blogging about running our own businesses. And I wouldn't even really consider freelancing my own business. It wasn't really until my sister quit her agency job also, and joined forces with me and we started Braid Creative that I really felt like I was launching a business. And you've just started really hiring people too, right Emily?

[00:04:11] Emily Thompson: I have. I hired I guess I hired my first guy, Corey. I hired him almost two years ago, actually. I think in March is his two year like job-aversary or whatever. 

[00:04:25] Kathleen Shannon: And you also hired your baby daddy.

[00:04:26] Emily Thompson: I did. I did. I hired my baby daddy about a year ago. And he now like, manages my entire business. He's super busy right now trying to get bookkeeping done for the end of the year. So yeah, hired my baby daddy. I have Corey who does some client support stuff. And I have a junior designer and photographer on staff too. So we do lots of fun things. But I guess we should actually talk about what we do.

[00:04:53] Kathleen Shannon: I know. Yeah. So what do we do?

[00:04:57] Emily Thompson: So I run Indie Shopography. On the surface, I guess you can call us a Web Design Studio. But what we do is so much more than that. Our work with creative entrepreneur clients has really morphed us in the past year or two, into a design strategy and coaching almost agency. Where we not only design websites and launch them for our clients, but we guide them through thoroughly planning a site that will best fit their brand, their needs and their future growth.

[00:05:27] We also pair that with expanded planning to really make sure that their brand has a succinct and cohesive presence across their place on the web. Right now we work with our clients one on one through through an engagement we call Indie Boom, and six to twelve month intense but super productive engagement that gets our clients branding, which we do outsource quite a bit of that to Braid Creative.

[00:05:54] We do website. We do social planning, and so much more. And we also just launched a semi group offering called Indie Boom Lite, which mixes one on one engagement to really dive deep into our clients business. And we pair that with group coaching, to help our clients get some hardcore planning, and visualizing in place before you jump into the design of your brand or the development of your website.

[00:06:20] So before they jump into a big engagement, either with our team or with any other designer, so basically, we work with other coaches and designers and makers to build kick ass online presences for their business.

[00:06:33] Kathleen Shannon: Cool. That is... that's what you do.

[00:06:36] Emily Thompson: That's exactly.

[00:06:37] Kathleen Shannon: Okay. So at Braid Creative, and we're a small team of it's me and my sister own it. And then we've got Liz, who is our right hand, lady. And we have a junior designer, Kristen. And we do branding and business visioning for creative entrepreneurs.

[00:06:57] So we started out really just with the branding aspect of it. But we found that so much of your business lies in your brand whenever you work for yourself. And a lot of people were asking us for a lot of visioning advice. So we're not going to get into financials or anything like that, even though we do that for ourselves. But we do help people create somewhat of a business vision, a plan of where they are now and where they want to go next, and how they can position themselves so that they can attract more dream customers and embrace their expertise.

[00:07:39] And so yeah, branding and business visioning is what we do. But I really also found that through my work, that work and life itself are not so separate whenever you work for yourself. And so I started doing a lot of creative coaching. I actually got some life coaching training from Martha Beck, who has a column in the Oprah Magazine. She's fantastic.

[00:08:05] And so I've been able to integrate some of the things I learned from her into my creative coaching. And so yeah, branding, business visioning and creative coaching.

[00:08:15] Emily Thompson: Love it.

[00:08:16] Kathleen Shannon: We also have some e courses and a couple of digital products, which I'm hoping to expand. So anyway, this podcast is all about being the boss, right? And guys can listen too, but I think that it's about being the boss lady. Or at least we're boss, ladies.

[00:08:36] Emily Thompson: I completely agree. I just asked David, my baby daddy and business manager, the other day. I was like, what would you call me? And I told him I know, it's a loaded question. Like, watch what you, how you answer. But I feel like boss lady is is sort of a sort of a good word for, for what we are these days. Boss lady.

[00:09:00] Kathleen Shannon: So this podcast is going to be us talking about... Well, I guess giving sneak peeks behind the scenes of what it's like to run our own businesses. Everything from talking about money to how we grew our teams, to productivity tips and advice. How we get our work done. What else? I hope that we can interview some really great people.

[00:09:27] Emily Thompson: Yeah, definitely. We do have a dream list. A few we want to interview and really great topics we want to cover. Yeah, lots about money. Lots about productivity. Maybe some some business common sense and not so common sense. So putting systems in place and and what's this blogging thing we're supposed to be doing? And how does it work these days? So really sort of diving into what it's like to, to run a creative, mostly online business in today's world.

[00:09:58] Kathleen Shannon:
And I think throwing in some life stuff too. Both you and I, Emily are moms. And while not everyone listening to this podcast might be a parent, everyone listening to this podcast, hopefully has a life. And that work-life blend can get messy. So we'll be throwing some of that stuff in there too.

[00:10:22] So today, what we really want to talk about is doing the work. And I think that what separates the hobbyists from the professionals whenever it comes to creative industry is doing the work. So I'm curious Emily, what is doing the work mean to you?

[00:10:41] Emily Thompson: Oh, doing the work, doing the work is everything. Everything for me it's everything between the wanting and the having. So this idea of you know, you want to fill your project calendar by a certain date. And that's something that you want now, but how do you get there. So the doing the work is all the things that come between wanting something and actually accomplishing it.

[00:11:08] And for me, it's something I say. I like the the idea of hobbyists versus professionals. But the way that I tend to look at it is, I feel like doing the work is what separates the creatives from the creative entrepreneurs. Because creatives are everywhere, you know, we are painting and writing and designing, but it's doing the work and making these goals and actually doing what you have to do to reach them is what turns you into an entrepreneur. 

[00:11:35] That's what sort of opens the door to endless possibilities. So doing the work is all the things that you have to do between wanting something and actually accomplishing it. So that can be anything from you know, implementing social media, you know, for a business or even just defining that dream customer, and doing what you have to do to reach them.

[00:11:58] So yeah, that, for me, is what doing the work is it's all the things that come between that you have to do between wanting something for your business or your life or whatever, and actually accomplishing it and having it. What about you?

[00:12:12] Kathleen Shannon: You know, I think it's, it's funny, because whenever we're looking at Pinterest and reading blogs, it looks like other people are just overnight successes. Like maybe they were in the right place at the right time. And in my heart of hearts, I still believe that there are those people that just have lucky breaks.

[00:12:34] Emily Thompson: Right?

[00:12:35] Kathleen Shannon: But but the overnight success is a myth. So even the people that I look at, I'm like, how did they? ...I mean, it was seemingly overnight, even though they can talk about sweat equity, and all of that. Anyway, I think that doing the work is what makes you look like an overnight success. 10 years later. 

[00:12:54] Emily Thompson: I completely agree with that.

[00:12:58] Kathleen Shannon: So I was thinking about our topic today of doing the work. And I started thinking about my brother, who is in town for the holidays right now. And my brother is a sideshow performer, he's been living in New York for the last 10 years, he worked down at Coney Island, hammering nails into his face and swallowing swords and breathing fire for a living. So like he's the ultimate creative whenever it comes to his profession. And so I used to go visit him in New York. And he's actually in the process of moving to New Orleans, which is close to you, Emily. Right?

[00:13:38] Emily Thompson: Oh wow. Yeah, I'll go visit all the time.

[00:13:39] Kathleen Shannon: So maybe we can meet there. Anyway. So I would visit him quite a bit when he was living in New York at least once a year. And one morning, I woke up. And after sleeping in a little bit, maybe we had a little bit of a hangover from going out the night before and drinking too much whiskey in a hipster bar in Brooklyn. I wake up kind of early to stumble into the kitchen and start making some coffee.

[00:14:05] And my brother is already awake. And it's probably 8am. It's pretty early. And he's sitting in front of his laptop watching videos and he has handcuffs on. And basically he is working on some handcuff tricks, and working on handcuff escape stuff. Anyway, he spent the next hour working on that while I was doing my morning routine of drinking coffee and going through some blogs that I like to read. And he told me that he had been working on this handcuff his escape routine until he had bruised his wrists from working on it so much.

[00:14:46] And I just thought it was so cool that he was up awake early and just I mean, the tiniest little trick. Just working on it over and over and over again until he was perfecting it. And whenever he performs, he gets up on stage. He's lit well he has a really cool costume on and he's in his full character. And he does the escape and it's amazing. And it looks really glamorous.

[00:15:15] But what you don't see are those bruise wrists and those countless hours of work it took for him to perfect this trick. And so I guess that's what I think whenever I think of doing the work is that you know, like we're whenever people ask us what is the day in the life look like for you? It's not all puppies and rainbows and painting and brainstorming and coffee meetings. A lot of times it's me staring at my computer screen, looking really uninteresting, doing the work.

[00:15:47] Emily Thompson: I completely agree. I spend more time than not just with a headache, almost from staring at my computer screen for days. But for me, that's definitely doing the work too. And I think that, I don't know, your brother's story is definitely, I don't know, that's what doing the work is. And this idea that, that you do sort of see this end result, but there's so much work that goes into this end result.

[00:16:13] You know, I don't know, I guess growth has happened a whole lot in the past couple of months. And I get emails from people that are like, you know, how have I not seen you before? Where have you been? You know, how have you gotten this big, so fast? I haven't gotten this big, so fast, it has taken, you know, we're five years into it. And it has taken five years of grueling work. And you know, this, this idea of five years and your 10,000 hours, and being an expert.

[00:16:41] I got my 10,000 hours, probably a year or two ago, from working, you know, 12 hour days, and you know, 60 hour work weeks on the regular. You know, taking care of myself, obviously, because that's definitely part of it, too. But there's a lot of work that goes into doing the work and getting to where you want to be. And that really is where the dividing line between, you know, your brother who gets out of the handcuffs. And someone who may not be that great at handcuffs. And I think that's doing the work is is the dividing line, period.

[00:17:20] Kathleen Shannon: Right. So to continue that, I guess it's not a metaphor, because my brother really is doing the work. But so he also breathes fire. And one year after performing, a guy went home and thought it'd be cool to show his family that he can breathe fire. He burned his face off and was in the ICU burn unit for a month. Yeah, it really horrible.

[00:17:44] And so I think that that just goes to show, is that maybe here's what it is too is that it takes little steps, you know, and sometimes the work, like what does that actually look like? And I think that it is whenever you talk about where you are and where you want to be, it's all the little steps in between. And so when do you feel like you're doing the work? And what does that actually look like? What is something really specific that you're doing whenever you're doing the work?

[00:18:17] Emily Thompson: Sure, well, I always start the work with hardcore planning, for me, planning anything is like setting your roadmap for your work, period. So you know, you make a goal, and this is sort of, this is where you want to be or where you will be. But how are you going to get there, and it's planning out those small steps. So, you know, for us, we are going to be doing an email marketing overhaul this year.  Where, you know, our open rate has gotten down, our numbers are growing, but our open rate is going down.

[00:18:53] And so we have this, this email marketing goal that we have, we want to get, you know, to like, we want to gain 3000 subscribers in the next, I don't know, six months, I think. But that also includes cleaning out our current list, which is going to be just sort of a, I don't know, sort of a like cutting me off at the knees almost. So we have this big list. And if only, you know, 30% of the people are opening, it's time to just clean out all the old ones. So we sat down, and we devised a plan. So here's our goal, we want to get 3000 new subscribers, we want a really healthy list with a very high open rate, what are we going to do to get there.

[00:19:30] So you know, for me, doing the work always starts with some planning, and setting out that roadmap and knowing what our goal is, and knowing what all those little steps are, you know, going to be to get there. So for us, it's going to be, you know, sending out newsletters to our current list saying if you want to stay on our list resubscribe or whatever those you know, this first little steps and then we're going to be doing some, like webinars and some list building activities over the next couple of months.

[00:19:58] So for me, it's planning and implementing, but it's also the not pretty stuff. Doing the work is not again, it's not this Pinterest perfect thing that everyone gets to look at. I mean, it's paper, and it's pens and it's you know, meetings of the mind and having these powwows with people who are smarter than you. And then planning out this course of action, but then actually doing it, which is I think a part that a lot of people forget to do. Yeah, is the actual doing part where we where we set this roadmap. But then we do it so you know, it's sending out emails, it's sending it's devising growth events, so webinars and writing that webinar, and scheduling that webinar, and marketing that webinar.

[00:20:47] Kathleen Shannon: So all of that stuff, though, still, whenever you're saying it, it still sounds really big and almost overwhelming. Like you're saying this stuff and I'm like, Oh my god, I should be doing this stuff too. But for me, so doing the work, like if I were to start down that path, it's literally opening the InDesign file or literally opening the Google Doc, and going through the motions.

[00:21:12] And so I would say that the hardest part of doing the work for me is getting started. And I've heard this as it relates to even working out. Is that the hardest part is just putting on your shoes, tying them and going out the door. And then the rest of it's pretty, you just do it. And so for me, it's, it's opening that file. And so if I could give one bit of advice, whenever it comes to doing the work, is to just open the file. To title it. To set your parameters.

[00:21:46] Emily Thompson: Definitely. I completely, completely agree. I was reading a book recently, Joy Inc. and I can't remember who it's by, we'll put it in the show notes, I'm sure. But it's about a programming company in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and how they tackle these huge like software development projects that they have. And, one of the things that he says, as you know, they do these cards for tracking projects. And in saying that the hardest part is definitely getting started.

[00:22:14] And for them, it's having this sort of preset card that every project starts with. That's just like the basic stuff. So it's the basic stuff that gets you started. So for you, it's opening your file. For them, it's having this card with these, you know, these basic to dues that gets the ball rolling. For me, it's making a plan. Before I can even open a file, I have to know what's going to come after I open the file.

[00:22:37] So like I'm a hardcore planner, you know, you set your parameters and get your boundaries in place, which I think is genius. And then these guys sort of have this, the set to do list that they tackle, or they start tackling each project with. So yeah, doing the work, I think is definitely easy, easiest, when you find what works for you in terms of just getting it started.

[00:23:00] Kathleen Shannon: So what do you think are some traits or characteristics of people who do the work?

[00:23:05] Emily Thompson: Oh, some serious boss ladies.

[00:23:10] Kathleen Shannon: So I've recently read a few books of ladies who do the work. And so Sophia Amoruso. I don't know if I'm saying her name right. But Girl Boss, if you haven't read that yet. Hashtag Girl Boss. It's, it's really good. I like the first half of the book a little bit better than the second half.

[00:23:29] But it's all about this woman who started selling vintage on eBay at the rise of eBay and then went on to have a multi-million dollar company. And then also Amy Poehler's Yes Please. Changed my life reading this book. And it's again, what we see of Amy Poehler on Parks and Rec or on Saturday Night Live is this really funny, awesome lady, and she makes it look so effortless and easy. But there was a lot of work and a lot of ramen noodles that went into that.

[00:24:03] And I guess something a characteristic of people who do the work that I found in common just from reading these ladies I admire. Is that they really love what they're doing. And they love what they're doing so much. They have so much purpose behind it that they don't mind doing all the little things it takes to get from where they are to where they want to be. Because they're enjoying the journey along the way. As cheesy as it sounds.

[00:24:32] Emily Thompson: I love that. I completely agree. I think you have to be like, annoyingly optimistic sometimes. If this idea that even whenever you're sitting there eating this bowl of ramen, like, you know, in a year, it won't be ramen, sort of this idea that you have to be super endlessly optimistic.

[00:24:51] Kathleen Shannon: Or like wow, this ramen tastes awesome. I can eat ramen for the rest of my life.

[00:24:56] Emily Thompson: Absolutely. Absolutely. So yeah, I think, so let's see. Being super optimistic. I think just being very courageous and like and not like, I don't know, rawr courageous. But knowing that, I don't know, any sort of setback is just a setback. You keep pushing. And not being afraid of anything that could go wrong or will go wrong or, it's just sort of any of the stuff that can go on in your head.

[00:25:22] You know, I feel like a lot of fear that we have that keeps us from actually doing the work is mostly just in your head nonsense. And when you can actually like talk yourself through whatever issues you're having, you can really sort of push through. I know fear is something we're going to hit on lots in the future.

[00:25:42] Kathleen Shannon: I love talking about fear. I love it.

[00:25:47] Emily Thompson: I do too. It's one of my favorite topics

[00:25:48] Kathleen Shannon: Because I'm afraid. I will admit I'm scared every damn day. I'm scared. And not... there's a cheesy Pinterest quote that's like everyday do something that scares you, which I don't really buy into.

[00:26:02] Emily Thompson: Right?

[00:26:04] Kathleen Shannon: And I have a lot of anxiety.

[00:26:07] Emily Thompson: It's not about seeking like something that's scary, like, I'm not gonna go just jump off a cliff, or anything like that. But I think if you're doing what you love to do, every day is a little bit scary. So you can sort of turned around this idea, do something that scares you every day, don't go do something that's going to scare you.

[00:26:25] Kathleen Shannon: Or it's just like having having skin in the game.

[00:26:28] Emily Thompson: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:26:29] Kathleen Shannon:
So I'm going to talk a little bit about when it comes to doing the work whenever you would rather binge on Netflix. And just watch Orange is the New Black, or The Mindy Project. So I just got into The Mindy Project. I'm obsessed. So that's another girl boss right there. Mindy Kaling's book is really good. And she's a funny boss, lady.

[00:26:54] So anyway, so like systems for doing the work whenever you'd rather take the day off. For me, it is scheduling everything on my Google Calendar. I schedule my workouts, I schedule my meetings, I schedule. I mean, even you and I, Emily, get together once or twice a month to have a girl boss meeting? Where we're just exchanging information and ideas. It's nothing formal, it's super casual. But it would be so easy to not do if we weren't putting it on the books, because we're both busy ladies. So I think that scheduling, everything has helped me tremendously in doing the work.

[00:27:37] Emily Thompson: Absolutely. I'm the same way. I get up every morning and from bed even, I will just sort of schedule out our day. That's actually even one of the questions that David and I ask each other every morning when we wake up, like what are we doing today? Like, what do we want to accomplish today, and we'll go through like our meetings, our workouts, you know, when people are going to be in the studio, when we need to be here, I think having a plan in place.

[00:28:03] Again, having a plan in place. So you know how you're going to execute your day. Makes it easier to get out of bed. I think, than just you know, laying in bed going, Oh, I have so many things that I don't know what I want to do first. It's about you know, prioritizing and getting it down and having a checklist and, and just doing it.

[00:28:21] Kathleen Shannon: Okay, so we're running out of time here, I want to talk a little bit about what people can expect from our future podcasts. So here's what you can expect from our podcast moving forward is we're hoping to launch or release an episode once a week. And they'll be about, we're hoping 30 minutes long, give or take. And we'll continue talking about some of the topics that we touched on today, like prioritizing scheduling, and time management tips, productivity ideas,

[00:28:57] Emily Thompson: Yes, whatever you need to do to be boss.

[00:29:01] Kathleen Shannon: Yes, I think money is, I think money should be our next podcast.

[00:29:05] Emily Thompson: I'm perfectly okay with that. And if anyone has any questions, either about money or any other topic you think we might be able to tackle. We invite you to visit our website at love being boss dot com, and you'll find a form for you to submit to ask us questions that we'll try to answer in future episodes.

[00:29:23] Kathleen Shannon: And it's important to mention, you can find show notes. So a lot of the things that we reference during our podcast, and just a summary of what we're talking about. You can find at love being boss dot com, and you can also listen to our podcasts through that website.

[00:29:40] Emily Thompson: Yes, the website is definitely going to be where you find all the good stuff. You can also find us on Soundcloud and on iTunes.

[00:29:47] Kathleen Shannon: Okay, so go to love being boss dot com for show notes, recaps of the show, links and resources and to listen to the podcast there. Be sure to sign up for our newsletter so that you know when each episode is being released, and we'll catch you next time.

[00:30:07] Thank you so much to our team and sponsors who make Being Boss possible. Our sound engineer and web developer, Corey Winter, our editorial director and content manager Caitlin Brehm, our community manager and social media director Sharon Luecke, and our bean counter David Austin with support from Braid Creative and Indie Shopography.

[00:30:26] Emily Thompson:
Do the work. Be Boss. And we'll see you next week.