Episode 67

Work and Life Partners with David Austin

April 12, 2016

Today is a very special episode because we’re bringing Emily’s partner in crime—both in work and life—on the show. David Austin is not only Emily’s main squeeze and the father of her child, he’s also her partner at Indie Shopography and our Chief Financial Officer here at Being Boss. We wanted to bring David on the show to talk about the more administrative side of running a creative business and also how he and Emily balance being partners in both work and life.

This Episode Brought to You By:
"You can't put energy into the business and expect it to compensate for the relationship."
- David Austin

Discussed in this Episode

  • Adapting to changing expectations vs. reality in partnership and breadwinning roles
  • Finance tips for creative entrepreneurs and business owners who are doing it on their own
  • Starting with good financial tracking habits from the beginning
  • What goes into creating monthly or periodic reports and what information is important
  • Separating your business relationship and your personal relationship when your business partner is your life partner

More from Kathleen

Braid Creative

More from Emily

Almanac Supply Co.


Emily Thompson 0:00
hello and welcome to bein boss episode number 67 this episode is brought to you by fresh books cloud accounting

being boss and work and life is being in it it's being who we are doing the work breaking some rules and even though we each have to do it on our own being boss is knowing we're in it together

Kathleen Shannon 0:27
today is a very special episode because we are emily's partner in crime both in work and life onto the show david austin is not only emily's main squeeze but the father of her kiddo and he's also her partner at ad shop orography and the chief financial officer here at being boss so we wanted to bring david on to not only talk about his role and being boss and his you know it's like being married to another boss but we also wanted to talk to him a little bit about the administrative side of running the business since he does that for us but first talking about running the administrative side of the business i want to talk to you guys a little bit about fresh books cloud accounting it's tax time and i'm starting to freak out a little bit but i'm so grateful that i have been tracking my expenses and tracking my income in fresh books all year long you guys i do not have a degree in accounting it is not something that comes easy to most people especially creative computers that's why freshbooks is built especially for people like us it's super intuitive it's so easy to use and a lot of it is so automated so that you can invoice and get paid quickly you can input your expenses directly from your bank account and easily track them into tax friendly categories and just run your business like a boss you can try fresh books cloud accounting for free by going to fresh books comm slash being boss and enter being boss in the how did you hear about us section alright on today's episode david we're so excited to have you here stoked to be here

David Austin 2:09
as well

Kathleen Shannon 2:10
he's not he's nervous as shit alright david you're gonna have to talk a little louder

David Austin 2:15
yes i'm a little bit nervous i must admit

Unknown Speaker 2:19
it's cute

Emily Thompson 2:19
yg can be so nervous

Unknown Speaker 2:23
what are you nervous about i

David Austin 2:24
don't know i just

Emily Thompson 2:26
i think he's scared of you mostly doesn't know what kind of ridiculous questions you're going to ask

Kathleen Shannon 2:36
i sent you a list of the questions i'm going to ask but i did think of more that i want

David Austin 2:43
i'm an open book

Kathleen Shannon 2:47
well okay let's start with this how did you and emily start working together and if the story goes back further to how you met um take it that's cool to know but tell us like how did you start working i guess first for indie shop biography and then maybe tell the story of how we were able to move into the boss

David Austin 3:07
i started working with emily one night when she was literally in tears over the laptop because she was working on all of her books and she hadn't done so for a really long time and was just overwhelmed

Kathleen Shannon 3:24
by books to me like

David Austin 3:25
counting books and i was just you know just distraught by how sad she was and i asked you know what can i do to help and from that moment on i started running the books for indie shop holography and could take that off of her plate and allow her to get back to doing what she likes to do and it just kind of grew from there and i started doing more and more like invoicing of clients and helping with putting together contracts and basically all the like gross stuff that comes along with doing a business so that emily could focus on the more creative side of it which is what she excels at and i'm definitely not the creative type in that area so it worked out well

Kathleen Shannon 4:14
guys like it's so funny watching you to record together like i've never seen emily so like blushing flurry

Unknown Speaker 4:22
blurs blur she

Unknown Speaker 4:24
quit i'm tired

Emily Thompson 4:29
no well and i want to throw it in like i was bawling my eyes out like i remember this night so perfectly i was trying to catch up on bookkeeping like in the early part of my business i remember it was like i was very good about on friday mornings i would sit down and do my bookkeeping just for the weekend like early on there wasn't a whole lot to do so it wasn't a big deal and then once business started picking up and i remember this summer really really clearly because i was doing more projects at a time than i ever done it was the same like summer spring that i hired cory to help me like do some development stuff because i was getting let me a business was growing hugely and i like bookkeeping was the thing that fell off my to do list first which is always like a really big sign that that's the thing you need to be handing off and yeah i think it was march so it was the same time of year that we hired cory was also like count down to like needing to get taxes done and i'm sitting there trying to do like six to eight months worth of bookkeeping in the course of like a weekend and david walks in and i am bawling my eyes out sitting on the couch i remember i had my laptop hooked up to the tv so i was using like a 60 inch television as my peripheral do the bookkeeping and i was bawling and david logged in and like i don't cry super often so whenever i do david tends to freak out a little bit and i like it streaming down my face and and he did he was like well what can i do to help and i was like

Unknown Speaker 6:02
you just have to do this for me

Emily Thompson 6:05
and and he did he did it then and then he always did it and i remember i remember having a conversation about the same time where we're talking about like you know i'm really busy and i need someone to help me with development i have all these projects going i had clients who weren't paying and and like it wasn't even like paying i was really on top of like current projects but like clients who were behind on their hosting and things because literally i didn't even have the time to follow up with them to actually get them to pay like it was as simple as sending emails but again another one of those things that had fallen off my to do list which means that we were losing money and i needed someone to take care of that stuff for me too so as as he sort of stepped into this like role of like doing the money david also did that part of the money too and like in terms of invoicing and then he ended up getting contracts and he does like business licenses so he really did just sort of get the the short stick in terms of doing all the gross things but it worked out well because he always kind of wanted to do that right

Kathleen Shannon 7:09
yeah so let's talk about that david i mean whenever emily's sitting there bawling about taxes like if i'd walked in the room i would have started crying too so do you have experience in financials or accounting like how did you feel confident to stepping up into that role and what would you do in the meantime like i think number one go to school some are teaching

David Austin 7:32
yeah i was at that moment i was a an adjunct instructor yep great and so i guess the backup i started out college thinking i wanted to be rich basically

Emily Thompson 7:52
no so i've totally told the story of david in his first like college class drawing a picture of himself in the future and being a pile of money as it was him sitting by a pole next to a pile of money because he just wanted to be rich

Kathleen Shannon 8:06
division that out like talk about mood board

David Austin 8:09
right so i went through the house about to graduate with a degree in finance and like a minor in accounting and i realized my prospects for getting a job that i actually enjoyed were very little or very slim and i had started taking kind of as a recommendation from emily geography classes and kind of fell in love

Kathleen Shannon 8:35
because that works so well for her

David Austin 8:37

Emily Thompson 8:39
so david always liked being outside i could tell he was getting really really like just sort of sad in business school because it's business school like that

Kathleen Shannon 8:47
shit sucks and but you got to geography geography degree emily now you're running an online empire david was about to get a finance and accounting degree you talk him into getting a geography degree and now he's handling the financials and accounting of our online empire

i love a twisty path i just wanted to make it clear like what what went down here

Emily Thompson 9:16
that's that's that's clearly what went down

Kathleen Shannon 9:19
okay so david you keep going

David Austin 9:21
okay so i stick with the geography path i do really well and decide i should get my master's in geography as well so i do that and then decide but i kind of low academics

Emily Thompson 9:39
well and i even want to a totally interjecting here he really wanted to get a phd like you went to teach like at that time you were getting your masters because you wanted to get your phd and once you got into academics you realize how much you hated it in which case you were getting a masters that would never lead to a phd so it was just kind of a little bit of a hot mess

Kathleen Shannon 9:59
okay so Moral of the story if you want to run an awesome online business, get a degree in geography, basically, is what I'm hearing. Yeah. Okay, so then what the but then what happens?

David Austin 10:11
Um, so after grad school, I was just trying to do anything I could to use this education. I had an I found a job as an adjunct, and was just doing that kind of part time just like, keep busy. Then that night came along, where I saw me in tears, and it really did. Like, it does really wreck me when Emily's upset because it's so, so rare, but she's like, crying, and

Emily Thompson 10:40
so rare that I show emotion.

David Austin 10:43
And I bought all those tears.

Unknown Speaker 10:46
Who made the joke

Emily Thompson 10:47
was that they probably cure cancer. Was that you?

Unknown Speaker 10:50
Yeah. So.

Kathleen Shannon 10:53
Okay, so whenever you were adjunct teaching part time, I also remember every time I would get on a meeting with Emily, before we have the podcast, we would either be having just like a monthly catch up or a business meeting. with David, you'd always be like walking by in the bathroom and grabbing a bag or like hitting Lily's coat on to take her to ballet. So you're doing a lot of hands on parenting, and you guys do homeschool, really is now eight. And so you were really and you still are and we'll talk more about that just being a really hands on dad and doing that while he was the boss.

David Austin 11:27
I mean, we definitely share the you know, the parenting responsibilities, but I really, really enjoyed taking that lead role, I guess with Lillian Yeah, I did a lot of things I never thought I would do with like ballet recitals or, like figuring out how to put a ponytail on and all that stuff. And it was kind of trial by fire. But yeah, I did. I was pretty much the the super dad.

Kathleen Shannon 11:55
Oh, you are super dad. Okay, so is the reality of like, what you're living right now? Is it? much different than what you had expected? Like, do you have that pile of money by the pool? It's, uh,

David Austin 12:12
I'd say I'm extremely blessed and happy and grateful for what we have. We don't get to just sit by the pool and drink all day. But I definitely get a lot of freedom to do close to what I want. And I really enjoy it and I'm super grateful. So yeah, yes, I would say it. Um, there.

Unknown Speaker 12:37

Emily Thompson 12:38
it's all about it's all about those those vision boards guys. Draw it out.

Kathleen Shannon 12:43
Okay, David, I'm curious. What is it like being married to a total Boss Lady? I feel like it takes a really strong man to handle a strong woman. But um, what's that been like for you? Give us some dirt on Emily.

David Austin 12:59
It's been a learning experience. And I say that in the best way possible. Emily's always been like a side hustler. Like even in college. I think I've talked about her tanning beds stuff. And like, at one point, I just had it all planned out in my head that I was going to do like going to be the like breadwinner like the typical I guess male thing where you're like, you're gonna like get the job. And Emily's gonna like probably just kind of put some of the stuff aside or like, I don't know, she was gonna be the, the supermom, you just got to adapt and like evolve. As her business grew more and more. It was coming clear to me like this is what Emily does. Like I think she would be stir crazy if she wasn't at least running a business or doing something of a sort. So just being open and knowing that like, just because my partner is the breadwinner doesn't like make you less of a man. Or,

Emily Thompson 14:01
you know, more of one honey.

Kathleen Shannon 14:02
Amen, amen. Okay, so let me just paint a picture for everyone. So you guys are how old? Were you? And have you got pregnant with Lily? 21? Yes. Okay, so young. And so pretty young David, you had a vision of being the breadwinner that Emily might just be side hustling and kind of raising Lily. Then it happens that the side hustle becomes the main jam and the breadwinning jam. So it's awesome. And I guess like what I want to ask is, at any point, even maybe now a little bit with Emily, especially having the limelight with being boss in the face of each other. Do you ever feel like butthurt about it?

David Austin 14:54
You know, like, I think there was a time where I did want to find some way to like contribute, like, I was always asking me like, what can I do to do more just because it kind of felt weird like I should, I don't know, just making more money aside from Emily likes, because if she were to stop her business as my boss, or partner like I would have stopped and it it did for a while kind of make me feel a little uneasy, I guess, depending on her so much when she had so much on her plate already. So it it did, I guess for a little while, but now it just doesn't even seem like a thing. I mean, we're totally in it together. And she doesn't even I don't even think she would know where to begin with the books or like the bad stuff. So it's, I kind of like created my own sort of job aside and like that autonomy. So it doesn't, doesn't isn't even a thing anymore.

Emily Thompson 15:50
Well, and like I even I want to go back and like paint even a more detailed picture of like how this all went down because David, David was getting his master's. And at that time, that's when I was really I started actually, I started my indie shot biography, right after we both graduated, so we both graduated. And December of oh nine, I think. And so by January, I'd started in the short biography, I was getting my first clients. And I was doing that because we were moving to North Carolina for David to get his master's degree, which like, the game plan was for me to like run this business that was kind of doing it, which was kind of cool. Because the town that we were moving into had no jobs, like unless I really wanted to work at the grocery store, and McDonald's and nothing's wrong with that. But I don't want to, I was going to have to make this business work. So for me, it was like, for me, and these are Biography at that point was a side hustle. Like it was just something that I was doing on the side. While I was raising Lily, while David was getting his master's degree because he wanted to be a professor and masters was the next step. And then as he did get into his master's degree, he decided that, like, academia is fucked up guys, like, the University System is wrong in so many ways. And, and as he was experiencing it, he realized that it wasn't really something that he wanted to do. So he finished his master's degree and started applying to jobs. And you would think that with a master's degree, and like we both got into geography, partly because we were told that like, the higher rate was like almost 100%, like everyone with a geography degree was getting jobs, but they weren't, they really, really weren't. And so

Kathleen Shannon 17:37
they were awesome jobs running online businesses,

Emily Thompson 17:40
right. We were all doing their own thing. And so David, David was applying to tons and tons of jobs. And that was a really hard time for both of us, like he had put in all of this work and all this hustle, and he did, like, he hustled it out. And, like nothing was happening. And about that time, it was, um, I guess I was I was doing indie still, I still hadn't really made it legit in my mind, yet, like, it was still just something that I was doing to occupy my extra time. And to just sort of do something that I needed to do, because I always have needed to do something like that. But until David got like a quote, unquote, real job, and whenever that wasn't happening, like we had a like, real kind of come to Jesus about like, then what are we going to do, and it was that time that we moved from North Carolina, back home to Florence, and, and that's when indies started picking up, which was really, really awesome. And as the time that it was about the time that you know, I'm crying on the couch, because India is really picking up and I need to hire a team that I decided, like, this is legit, like I am going to do this thing. And not only is it going to be something that supplies me with some extra cash to do what I need, and like a personal fulfillment to do like something on my own, but it was gonna like, legitimately feed my family in a greater sense. So it's funny how things just kind of worked out like it was really hard. And it was really hard for both of us to make that decision for David to come on. But also at the same time to make in the shot biography, this thing that I was actually going to do, even though I was doing it, I was really going to do it now. So it all just kind of flowed together really well. I was talking to someone earlier about how how she wanted her husband to come in, and how it was going to be like a really big deal to make it happen. And for us, like for us it We almost just eased into it a little too easily in a way. And there were some conversations, and it was definitely a transition for both of us. But it wasn't like this showdown and any sense. And once he got in and started working, working with me and seeing like, like once I was freed up to work more I was making more money. We could actually like start visualizing what it would you'd like for us to do it ourselves. And then not long into it, it was funny to like realize that this is what David wanted to do. He always wanted to like, manage wealth. But instead of doing it for someone else, which is what he was going to school to do in the very beginning, he was doing it for us. And that's way more rad than doing it for someone else.

David Austin 20:19

Emily Thompson 20:22
There you go, bosses, this story of how I cried my way and to having David join me at Indy shot biography to help me take care of some of the grosser sides of doing business for yourself. You want to know something else that makes me cry, or at least drives me up the wall, client phone call no shows. If you're a boss, that your time is precious. And having a client stands you out for a meeting can feel like having them kick you in the gut. And then you spiral into the what ifs? Whose fault is it? And what do I do next? What can you do better? You can sign up now for acuity scheduling to help you get your scheduling under wraps and your clients showing up. Don't get stood up, stand up. With acuities automated reminders for clients. You'll never be left crying in your office again. At least not from no shows. Schedule clients without sacrificing yourself. Sign up for a free 60 day trial of scheduling sanity at acuity scheduling calm slash being boss. Now, let's get back at it.

Kathleen Shannon 21:27
So David, I'm curious, we know that your role in the boss's finances, payroll, and everything regarding that keeping track of expenses. Every time Emily and I go on vacation like you supply her with a little for all the receipts, which I think is hilarious. So Tara Gamble's all of our finances on our side of things, a rare breed creative. There is no envelope. There's no tracking of receipts,

Unknown Speaker 21:56
because when stressing David out right now,

Kathleen Shannon 21:59
we have it all automatically imported into fresh books. So it's there. And hopefully we don't get audited. Anyway. So I wanted to know like, what do you love about your role in indie shot, biography and being boss? And what's hard about it? And to follow up that question, I want to know, if there's anything that you would recommend for creative entrepreneurs who are doing it all by themselves, they don't have someone on the side managing their money. What would you want them to know about setting up their finances? And really just all the intricacies of a more than that you have a lot of our legal stuff like our what is our operating agreement and like you help us make decisions and all of those things. So how would you tell a parent who's working for themselves to handle that on their own?

David Austin 22:47
Well, to start with the creative entrepreneur on their own, I mean, it's a, there's a wealth of information out there on the internet, that's a good place to just start, there's usually a Small Business Development Center in a lot of big cities. And you as an entrepreneur, you especially one who's like side hustling, because I'm assuming at this point, you can't afford an accountant. So you really got to tap into as many free resources as you can, and make the most of those and find somebody who is a couple steps ahead of you that you can maybe mentor or just pick their brain, buy him a drink, or anything you can to get that wealth of knowledge, because a lot of the stuff you really read online is great. But having somebody who's actually been there is huge. As soon as you can, I would also open a separate bank account that just alleviates so many headaches as far as tracking your finances. And there's lots of great tools like fresh books for your accounting software. And it really kind of makes it where if you're importing from a bank account, which is why you need that separate one, then you can have all those things just come in automatically. So you don't have to like worry about missing an expense or something like that.

Kathleen Shannon 23:58
This always overwhelms people that opening the bank account part and I just want to iterate how easy it is. The hardest part about it is filing for your LLC. But at this point are what however you want to file. And you can file one way now. So let's say you're trying to decide between an LLC or an S corp, you can always change it later. But for now, like let's say you're filing for your LLC, you can do it online, and then take that certificates from your bank account, you guys it's really so easy. If I can do it, you can do it. You take it to the bank account. And then they'll ask you for the AIAN number and they'll say I don't even know what that is. And they'll literally go online and do it for you, at least my bank did. But you can also apply for your Ei n number which is kind of like the alternative to your social security number. And if you're doing business by yourself, you could even probably just use your social security number to get the account open. So that's the easiest way to open a bank account and it's not hard at all. So don't let that aspect of starting your business overwhelming because honestly like even for yourself You don't need all that stuff. But it's good for keeping it separate. Like you said, David.

Emily Thompson 25:06
Yeah, and I want to reiterate that that part about like using local resources, I mean, David and I have moved our business three times in the past five, six years. And and I have to say like those local resources are huge, but also go into them mostly with a grain of salt. So one of the things that we've learned is like checking things online is really important, like a lot of states even have just sort of like a pre done for you LLC form, like, you can literally just print it out, fill it in melodyne, which is really easy is a lot of lawyers will do that for you. But also, both states have one just sort of pre done for you, which is fine. But go into a lot of that with a grain of salt as well, because one thing that we have also experienced is that even when there are local resources, most of them don't know what the hell they're doing, which is hysterical, like we've run into that more often than not where, where they don't actually know what licenses you need to file and they will send you around. And this has happened in more than one location that we've lived. So, so go into them, knowing that you're going to get some helpful information, but that you're also going to have to do some footwork yourself. And a lot of times online resources can be super helpful. But sometimes they can also leave things out. So that idea of finding someone who's done it before you or are currently in, it can be like the key to that. Because even with all the resources online and locally, they can get a little spotty. So find someone to help you out. And making friends with a CPA and or a lawyer can be the best move you make.

Kathleen Shannon 26:45
All right, so David, what do you love about all the admin side of running a business? And what do you do about it?

David Austin 26:53
I love the most is like some part of me that just likes counting money. I don't know if I'm like one of those, like, what is it the goblins or something on green gods that like, just likes money, like that is in me, and I like to count it. I like to see where it goes. I like to make budgets and graphs and like, if I can watch my money grow, but even just that excites me, you know, kind of funny way to like, I really like doing that. And the parts that I don't like is I really don't like writing emails. I imagine probably most people don't, especially when it's, you know, you're emailing somebody because they owe you money, maybe some kind of a special you have to kind of have a special finesse to get your point across and not be a dick. So that's probably the most like strenuous part of what I do. And I hate it just emailing.

Unknown Speaker 27:49
Well, and I

Emily Thompson 27:51
agree sometimes it's really hard for David not to be a dick. Um, so I try not to be I know it can be very difficult. Um, but I also I think that one of the things he also loves about it the most that is one of the or one of the going back to that laying by the pool with his pile of money is that when properly systemized, doing the admin part of your business does not take long, like David is able like actually while we were on our, like 40 day road trip this summer, he like one morning just got up in the tent and ran payroll from his phone and then done my jobs you know, done for the day or if he's importing his like bank statements from the bank to our accounting software. And like he has it all systemized out so it like auto categorizes everything. I mean, like whenever properly systemized, your admin side of your business doesn't have to take a long time. So he does a lot like he does a ton of things. But because he's set it up properly, it doesn't take very much time at all. So he's able to lay by the pool and count his power money.

Kathleen Shannon 28:57
A lot of people ask us or feel like maybe they don't have enough clients to sign up for something like freshbooks. And the thing is, is that if you start using that accounting software, whenever you have one client, it's going to make it easier whenever you have two or three or four or five. So start with good habits from the beginning. There's something else that you do that I love so much that I think every single creative entrepreneur should do just to keep their eye on their money. And that is, you see this these monthly email reports where you tell us what generated income from all the different streams of revenue. And then you also tell us where we spent our money and it it's a pretty basic breakdown but it in some ways it I guess it like almost humanizes those financial reports and really kind of gives some context to it. And this is something that also my sister will do quarterly with great creative. And so I recommend to all the creatives listening to this to make your own monthly reports. And so David, I would love to hear how you Can you put those together like what informations you look at to create monthly reports.

David Austin 30:05
So most of what I do, or what I look at is like your income statement. And that's something that every business owner should get really familiar with is understanding that income statement. And it's really not. It sounds scary, just because it's name, but it's really you have your revenue and your expenses, and you take your revenue, subtract your expenses, and that ends up with your your net profit, because there's usually a lot in there, and I try to just get the big picture stuff. Like if we just launched the product, we obviously want to know how much that products making. And you know, just comparing that to what you did last month, which is why you should do this on an ongoing basis. And also, including the things that may not be on there, like we pay our people the month after they work. So making sure that that expense is not on that income statement for that month. So everybody know, Emily knew what kind of level of work ever all the employees are doing. So we know what kind of expenses that will be. And also looking at just like the showing where the big stuff is like, especially if you have a big like, expense one month, it's good to make sure everybody's on the same page. It's what that was,

Kathleen Shannon 31:22
yeah, it's especially helpful for the boss because we get this monthly report. And what it does is it creates a really good amount of transparency and honesty within our businesses. Like I inherently trust you guys so much. But those monthly reports, just take it to the next level of actually seeing it on paper and making sure that all of our money is going into the right places. And if I have a question, which often I do, I'll just shoot him an email and say, hey, what, what happened here, and you'll simply explain it to me. And it's good also, because Kara handles the finances on my side of things. And so, you know, Tara and David will get on the phone, often. One of the big issues that we have with the boss is making sure that we weren't being taxed twice on our income. And so just things like that are kind of, we have a more complicated situation than most people will have. But um, it's really cool that you're able to keep track of all of it and keep all of us up to date with what's going on with our money.

David Austin 32:22
Yeah. And I feel like just having that awareness opens you, you and your business up to more growth. And it can also it just reduces the stress you have like some I know, sometimes it can be really stressful as an entrepreneur, you're like you're constantly seeing these expenses, or I'm wondering, and sometimes you have all these like thoughts. But if you look at your income statement, you'll see you're actually making money and it can help you. Uncertainty is stressful. certainty even if it is a loss, knowing for sure it's a loss and how big of a loss is way better than just guessing because you're gonna make it worse in your mind

Kathleen Shannon 32:59
was such a good point. Yeah, I

Emily Thompson 33:02
think back to like my first couple years of business, like whenever I was just sort of putting it in and not running reports. Like once David, once David started taking over my books, and like running reports and showing me really what I was doing. It gave me so much more clarity on like, on how well I was actually doing because again in my head, like I was just hustling it out. And I felt like I was spending a shit ton of money. And I felt like I wasn't getting paid what I was worth and was very ridiculously stressful. But once you're actually showing the numbers, and you're like, Damn, like I made a profit. Like that's kind of cool. Because Yeah, it's so easy to get into a negative place when you're just sort of hustling it out and you're not looking at the numbers. I can't. I can't recommend that enough, either.

Kathleen Shannon 33:47
I think it's good. All right, I want to kind of wrap up the podcast by asking you guys a little bit more about how to balance work in life. So you guys are business partners and beauty shop Iver fi, we all work together and being boss, and your partners for life, hopefully, and you guys want a kiddo together. So that you are homeschooling. So you guys have a lot on your plates. How do you manage working together all day? And then how are you not like you just stopped doing it? I'm just kidding. But like, no, but really like this is like what goes through my mind? Like how do couples that work together managed to say romantic like and that's a euphemism for doing it. Sorry, I had to go there. But not just that, but like talking about you guys talk about anything other than work. Like what is that like?

David Austin 34:48
boundaries is the first thing we have really clear boundaries about when it's work time and when it's not after it's work time we don't talk shop. And if we do we usually say Start out the conversation with Can we talk business for a minute? So it's like a mental like, shift. And then when we're done, we're done. It's like back to real life.

Kathleen Shannon 35:09
Do you guys have any sorts of routines or rituals that start your day? So you know, okay, now let's work time and that end your day so that you know, okay, now it's time to just be home.

Emily Thompson 35:20
Yes, um, and I think it's food. Like, in the morning, in the morning, we get up. And like, we have a sit down breakfast every single morning, which is one of my very favorite things about like, doing what we do it like both homeschooling and and working from home, we're able to get up every morning without an alarm clock, like, most days do us like at least start and end like a busy Saturday, more or less. So we get up in the morning, and we have breakfast, like I cook breakfast every day. And then we have a sit down breakfast and then David and I always take a cup of tea either to the couch or the front porch, depending on what the weather's like. And if we need to talk business will usually start again started with like, let's talk about this for a minute. And we'll talk about it. And then we just want to talk about what our day looks like. We do that every day. Like, what are the plans for the day. And we'll sort of go through whatever meetings we have whatever sort of homeschool things we're doing with Lily. Like during this time, she's like getting ready. She's like brushing her teeth and putting her clothes on and those sorts of things. And so David and I can all right, oh, it gets better Honey, you just wait. And and then like I head to the studio. So after tea, I come to work. And that's when David usually sits down when Lillian will either like she'll do math, or she'll do her handwriting. And like during those times, David's on the on the laptop like around the house somewhere, sort of answering emails and things and they kind of do their thing out there. While I'm in here, doing my thing. And then dinner time is usually stopping time. So whenever it is time for me to like, leave the studio to go start dinner. That's when like I I used to come back into the studio a lot in the evening. But since we've especially since we've moved into this house, I think I've worked at night, twice, like maybe at all. And so dinner is when it stops. So I cooked dinner most days and I'll go into the kitchen and start dinner, have a sit down dinner we don't like we really try hard not to talk business at the dinner table. Like that's one of our pretty hardcore boundaries. And then in the evening, we'll usually like watch TV or sit on the porch or whatever. And that night, we don't really talk business either. Unless, again, unless there's something that just needs to be talked about really quick, but we make it really quick and then we're done.

Kathleen Shannon 37:43
Okay, one more question. How do you guys split up your chores at home?

David Austin 37:48
That's a good one.

Kathleen Shannon 37:55
You know, David,

I'd love to hear Okay, you

David Austin 37:59
basically I do everything? No. No, Emily's usually she's much better cook. So she likes she ends up cooking more and enjoys a little bit more than I do. Some, probably like 80% of the mills. I'd say I'm like cooks. And I always do the dishes. And I think that makes it really well. Like she cooks I enjoy the food and I do the dishes. And we have dishwashers. So it's not like a big thing. We both come in

Emily Thompson 38:27
Lily unloads the dishwasher, which is I think, a super important thing to point out Kathleen Hill someday he'll unload the dishwasher for you.

David Austin 38:37
And then we have a maid that helps clean the house like do the deep cleaning. Or like the legit cleaning. So that pretty much I mean, leaves laundry. It's not like once a week. Right now it's twice a week.

Emily Thompson 38:52

David Austin 38:53
every other week. Yeah. Sorry.

Kathleen Shannon 38:56
Right. Wow. Okay. I'm just wondering,

David Austin 39:00
yeah, kind of both. I mean, we were pretty good about just doing it when it when, like ongoing, so it just never really piles up. And another thing that, especially when I first started working with emmalin that I really had to teach myself was separate, like, a relationship in a business both take a lot of energy. And sometimes I found myself working harder at the business, then maybe the relationship. So I had to, you know, like I we had a conversation about it and it was like, you know, you can't put business or energy into the business and expect it to like compensate for the relationship. It's it's like two distinct entities or whatever. Realizing that and like making that aware. It made a big difference for us.

Kathleen Shannon 39:49
I feel like I just want separate pins to the guy. Like Digi Yeah, because they're The session now, I give so much energy to my work all day that like, and I bet this is normal for a lot of people. But Jeremy and I don't work together, but turn I even had similar conversations as sisters. But at the end of the day, literally in the evening, I don't have much left. You know, it's hard to bring effort. And I think that this is something that a lot of creative entrepreneurs struggle with, and kind of maybe even feel a little lonely about, because they're just whenever what you do is what you love. There's a lot of like, energy wrapped up in that versus working a day job where you might feel like you can turn it off a little bit. I know for my husband, the place where he likes to spend his energy is at home, does that work? And it's the job that he doesn't particularly love. He's just kind of phoning him in. I hate saying that about him, because he works really hard. But you know what I mean, right?

Emily Thompson 40:53
Yeah, well, and I also want to point out, like, there have been a couple of times in like this life together that we lead, where, you know, we've both would have had to sit down and have a conversation about what our separate workloads were like, because like, I would feel guilty because I wasn't doing enough, like, at home. And David was feeling guilty, because he felt like he wasn't doing enough at work. And whenever you do live and work, the way we do, there's a huge blend and like a blend to the point where our energy going into separate ones isn't how you should look at it. So I think like that has been a really big transition for us is like, is sometimes David, you're going to do the laundry. But that's like, but I am in here, like having five client calls that are draining the hell out of me. And like, that doesn't mean that he's not contributing. And it doesn't mean that I'm not contributing, it just means we're contributing in different places, but like in the same amount, because neither of us are sitting down watching Netflix all day. Like, I wish that were thing. And the same is true in business partnerships,

Kathleen Shannon 41:59
too. I know that, you know, for Karen, I especially I love doing the things that she does not like, and vice versa. And it always makes us feel like the other one is working harder, because that would be hard work to us. We're all doing the things that we want to be doing in our businesses, the business was so much better, and it's really a dream job.

Emily Thompson 42:25
Yeah, I completely agree. And I think I think the key to that both like, with you and Tara, and you and I and David Nye is that like it takes like, just open conversations about like, you know, I'm feeling like I'm not putting in as much as you are. And usually the other person, like if done right will come back and say, Well, I feel like I'm not putting in as much as you are. And then you'd have a cute little laugh about it, and it'll be over. Because like everyone does have their own place and work in life, like you both can't be doing the exact same things the same time, or else. Like that's just a waste of somebody's time. And I think that having those open conversations, like one will bring you awareness in that moment, but it will also brings in sincere awareness and like the ongoing relationship because like mine, and David's roles have changed immensely, both in work and life over the past couple of years. And they keep changing like, you know, there will be some times when David like, when David sitting on a hold with the IRS for four hours, or or like or I'm sitting you know, in for hours with of client calls, or whatever it may be like, I think that they're just sort of transitionary phases in any relationship and David knio have decided to dive in on both like a romantic relationship paired with a business relationship. And I mean, I would not recommend this for everyone by any means. But it works really well for us. And I think it would work really well for a lot of couples if they gave it a try. But you do have to remain open every phase of it. Just so you both like can stay on the same page. I think if if David or I ever got to a place where we weren't talking about things, so consistently, I mean, David and I literally spend all day together every day, like and we're always talking to each other. Like we have a really great relationship and we talk about we talk about a lot of things and I i think that i think that that openness is mandatory, but it does allow us to create a life together that we sincerely love more both consistently like working together at and just sort of reached the same goals. Which is kind of an amazing thing. I like it.

Kathleen Shannon 44:42
Okay, I have one more question for you. But I feel like I keep saying that. But I'm curious if you have any side hustle ideas for yourself or passion projects, or even long term vision for indie shot biography and your role in being boss like what's next?

David Austin 44:58
Yeah, this is a Something that me and Emily have been talking about a lot lately. And I want to find a way to help others entrepreneurs who are struggling with the stuff that I do for Emily. And I don't know, right now, it may be like a coaching offering, or some sort of like ecourse, possibly, but something that I feel would help people get over this, like, fear of growth side of being an entrepreneurial.

Kathleen Shannon 45:27
Alright, you guys heard it here first, I would I recommend, I think that you Sorry. Um, I think that you should work with people one on one for a little bit. So that you can like really, and this is what I always recommend to people. And this is what we're going to be talking about in our master class in Miami when it comes to digital products. And I just sent out a newsletter today about it that I really think when it comes to wanting to create a product around your expertise is so helpful to work with quite a few dream customers. And that's the trick, there are a couple of dream customers one on one just so that you can really start to uncover some patterns, and really see what the common threads are. And the common problems are, or maybe use and leave. And they've been boss platform to have just a few of those. Emily calls them three and 30 calls where she takes three months to call for 30 minutes, where she's just talking to someone. And those are the best. They're so valuable for learning more about your potential dream client and how you can best help them. But I can't wait for you to create this service or product because I think a lot of creatives need it. So we'll be the first to launch it for you. We'll help you out there.

David Austin 46:38

Kathleen Shannon 46:40
All right. Well, thank you so much for joining the show. Is there anything else that you want to talk about or mentioned? Like? I don't think you have anything to plug. No,

Emily Thompson 46:50
don't really stepping in here. You can sign up for indie tactics, my newsletter at indie shop agafay.com slash newsletter and that's where we'll be releasing more info on whatever it is that David is going to have coming out soon. And you can also sign up for toolkits at toolkits by indie inde.com. And that's the place where David's probably sharing the most outside of what he does for indie and being boss. He is active in the slack group. They're sharing some resources and tips on the gross side of business, as well as joining me for some of those toolkits, q&a calls. So tickets by indie.com. You can sign up sign up for the newsletter there too.

Kathleen Shannon 47:33
And David, we're so excited to have had you on the show. I can't wait to see you in Miami and catch up. You are an awesome boss supporter, literally. Thank you for everything that you do in class and I ended up with a deal about you so thank you.

David Austin 47:54
Thank you both for making my job so easy.

Kathleen Shannon 47:59
Thank you for listening to being boss. Please be sure to visit our website at being boss club where you can find Show Notes for this episode. Listen to past episodes and discover more of our content that will help you be boss in work and life. Did you like this episode, please share it with a friend and show some love by leaving a rating and review on iTunes.

Emily Thompson 48:19
And if you're looking for a community of bosses to help take your creative business to the next level. Be sure to check out our exclusive community at being boss club slash clubhouse where you get access to our closed and very vibrant slack group monthly q&a calls with Kathleen and myself a book club and more. cultivate your tribe and find your Wolf Pack at being boss dot club slash clubhouse. Do the work. Be boss and we'll see you next week.

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