Say What You Want

Kathleen Shannon 0:04
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Caitlin Brehm 0:47
All right, Emily, and Kathleen, we've got a lot of bosses out there who are trying to develop their voice, trying to put more of what they want, what they're creating out into the world. But I feel like people are tiptoeing around things that they really want to say. So how do you get over maybe that fear of talking about what you really want to talk about and saying what you really want, without alienating people, without Friday feelings creeping in, on a way that's cohesive with your brand.

Kathleen Shannon 1:19
I think that we're trained to think that wanting things is selfish. And as the youngest of three, I definitely embody that. That youngest sibling, um, ability to want things in fact, my sister has always said that my superpower is being able to make decisions. But I think my true superpower is always having known what I want. And I didn't realize what a gift that is. Until one day, I was like, wait, what do I want. And it's probably like on one of those days where I was really burned out. And whenever I say days, I mean here, like a whole year of being tired and burnt out. And I was like, I don't want anything, I just want to take a nap. But then I started realize, like, Oh, this is what it's like to not really know what you want or to not know what next step to take to get what you want. But I love wanting things and I love getting them.

Kathleen Shannon 2:16
Right, I do want to talk about this taboo piece a little bit, because as an oldest child, I often got the few things that I wanted, but I never really wanted for anything like because it had to go around. And I was the oldest most responsible one. So wanting was a waste of time. It's been a lot of ways. However, it's something that as I've gotten older, I feel like I'm very good at wanting things. And I think that has come from being able to freely talk about what I want with the people that I surround myself with, which is something that sadly, I don't think a lot of people are gifted with. I don't think a lot of people have these sort of relationships in their lives, where you can just very openly and judgment free talk about what it is that you want, you can be ambitious without being judged for it. So the first piece of this puzzle is finding the people with which that you can talk freely about what you want. And if you can't find those people just journal it out. Just write to yourself, like admit to yourself what it is that you want, because I definitely do a lot of that too. Because I've found that the relationships and endeavors that go places are those in which you're able to talk about what it is that you want all the time. Even Kathleen, this is one of my favorite things about my relationship with you is you and I talk about what we want all the time. And the conversation usually starts with. So what do you want, like this very, like open judgment free, like just say whatever comes to your mind first. And I think because of that we've been able to build what it is that we've built.

Kathleen Shannon 3:50
And it's so funny, because whenever we're talking about what we want, it's on a very practical and tactical level. So it's always starting with intentions, like what intention do we want to cultivate. So it really is coming from the inside out. We're talking about how much money we want to make. We're talking about our roles and duties. What is it that we want to be doing all day? What is it that we don't want to be doing? Sometimes it's easier to figure out what you want by really deciding what you don't want. And so it really is not just this like, I want a million dollars, though we've certainly had those conversations. And you know, speaking of that I was recently having a conversation with Jessica Merman on her podcast, one part podcast, and we were talking about values and intentions and one of hers that came up was money and she felt so funny about it and that makes me think about that taboo like what you want thing and I do think that we've done a pretty good job of surrounding ourselves with people who are not going to judge what it is that we want. So high five to that like definitely surround yourself if you find yourself expressing what you want and the people around. You are shooting mean you are judging you are telling you that it's impossible, you need to find a new boyfriend, you need to find a new friend, you need to find. I guess you can't find new parents, but find mentors who are going to support what it is that you want.

Kathleen Shannon 5:16
Absolutely, I think not feeling shame for what you want is like is key number one. And I think it does come from one, getting used to wanting things and expressing to yourself what it is that you want. And then also finding the people who will accept that and accept it and help you get there. Because I do believe that getting clear on what you want is part of the process. You can't get what you want. If you don't know what you want, you can't work towards it if you don't know what you're working towards. So I think and even start small, one of the things that one of the one of the lists that I keep, is just a want list, it's a list of things that I want to buy or have or have given to me or whatever it is. And it includes really dumb things like for example, whenever we bought our dining set, one of our chairs is doesn't match the rest of it was just a weird mix up where one of our chairs is a match. On my want list is a new dining room chair that just matches all the other ones, or a new mattress. So apparently my super practical, or you know, a stand up mixer or a vacation or whatever it is like keeping a list of things that you want as like flippant or serious or tangible or very enjoyable jewel as you want it to be. Keep a list for yourself of things that you want.

Kathleen Shannon 6:37
Yeah, this is something that I did whenever I was experiencing that burnout and feeling like I don't even know what I want anymore. I just I forced myself to make a list of 100 things. And 100 things can seem really daunting. But what it does is it really starts to expand your mind into what it is that you want. And you're just gonna start writing down anything like little or big. So for example, when a mine is eating sushi in Tokyo, another one I feel like all of mine are revolve around food and travel pizza in Italy. But I just start writing down what it is I want I've also put down a TV show on there. In the past, I've looked at my want list. And I've seen things like having a home birth. And I remember I put that as number 100. Because I want I don't even know if I could get pregnant, too. I didn't know if I could actually go through with having the baby at home. And I did it. And so I it's really cool to look back on your want list and to see like, oh, I've experienced or achieved these things, maybe not in the way that I've expected. But it has showed has shown up. And I think Fred somewhere that there's research done that if you write it down, like it's so much more likely to happen. So I I also use this as an experiment around even removing my own shame or doubt around what it is that I want. If I'm writing down 100 things, it can start to get pretty wildly improbable. But I've also started trusting that it's going to happen,

Kathleen Shannon 8:05
right. And so that is one of the things that we've talked about recently, you know, just between the two of us that we've gotten really good at getting what we want, like making it happen. One of the things, for example, was going to ABC Studios for book launch. And then within I mean, that's just something we set amongst ourselves, like just between the two of us. And then within, you know, two or three weeks, we had an invitation to go to ABC Studios during our book launch, to do an interview for the No Limits podcast. So little things like that after we left that interview or walking through Central Park, and we're talking about how it is like good do we did that? Do you realize that like we just manifested some wants that we had, and then walking through the park, I remember very intentionally being like, Alright, it's time to have this conversation again, then what do you want, and just starting up this conversation of the things that we want out of our lives and out of our careers together and separately with our families or, you know, otherwise, it's so important to want things and to get clear about them. It doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't, doesn't do anything negative unless you take negative actions around it for us. It fuels our hustle, it makes us work for the things that we want and it helps attract to us the things that we want as well. But I also want to throw in this point here that as you get into wanting sometimes, sometimes it can spiral it could spiral into kind of a nasty place. And I felt this recently where there's a couple of buildings around Chattanooga that I want, I just want them and I want to do things with them. I want to take these old dilapidated built buildings and rehabilitate them in like my next life, or whatever it may be. And I found myself getting annoyed now when I'm driving around town past these buildings that I see continuing to leak and grow, vines and all of these things, becoming a little annoyed at how much I want things.

Kathleen Shannon 10:02
Ooh, interesting.

Kathleen Shannon 10:04
So one of the things that I've had to do is like very mindfully, stay grounded in the gratitude for what it is that I do have like I have a house that doesn't have a leaky roof anymore. Thank you. Because it just fixed that. And isn't growing vines and all of these things. So knowing that I am here in this moment, without those things for a purpose, and being grateful for what I have, and also being detached from the outcome and not valuing myself based on whether or not I have the things that I want. I'm getting too deep into the wanting came can take you to dark places, and I think we've all eaten with their movies, you can just go watch any movie and you're going to single white female, right? Like the Hand That Rocks the Cradle. Oh, right.

Kathleen Shannon 10:55
You went there. Now my my wanting sometimes spirals me into like comparison trap or jealousy. But I've been flipping that on its head in a really interesting way. Which is like, for example, I want a TV show and I just saw that busy. Phillips got a late night TV show. And instead of being like, Oh, I want it so bad. I'm happy for her. I'm like trying to cultivate that. Like, yes, she got it in the same way that I would for myself. Like once I get it like yes. Like I feel that just cultivating those positive feelings and being happy and proud of other people's successes also draws more success toward you.

Kathleen Shannon 11:34
For sure. For sure. So all of us to say, wanting things stay grounded and gratitude for yourself and others and what you have and others, but want things i think i think there's something to be said about the fact that people admire a girl who knows what she wants. I think we should all know what we want. And boy and boys to people who know what they want is admirable. All of you.

Kathleen Shannon 12:09
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Kathleen Shannon 12:23
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