How to Get Better at What You Do

Emily Thompson 0:02
I'm Emily Thompson.

Kathleen Shannon 0:04
And I'm Kathleen Shannon,

Emily Thompson 0:05
And this is Being Boss. In this episode of Being Boss, we're talking about our current creative projects, how to get better at what you do and hone your craft. And finally, we end on a few quickfire questions from you. As always, you can find all the tools, books and links we reference on the show notes at www.beingboss.club.

Kathleen Shannon 0:32
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Kathleen Shannon 1:22
Hey, Emily.

Emily Thompson 1:23
Hi, Kathleen. How you doing?

Kathleen Shannon 1:25
Good. How are you?

Emily Thompson 1:26
Good. I'm excited to be here chatting today. This is gonna be a good one.

Kathleen Shannon 1:32
Me too.

Kathleen Shannon 1:33
I wasn't gonna mention it because I'm feeling a little superstitious or cautious. But we put in a bid on a mid century modern home. We won it we were in a multiple bid offer nine other people, I won.

Emily Thompson 1:47
Yeah, you did.

Kathleen Shannon 1:49
And I'm just trying to get to closing. So we've had our inspection, we've had our appraisal, I'm just trying to get to closing and then I'll feel better talking about it. But whatever I'm talking about it and I've mentioned it on my Instagram as well. But what I haven't entirely mentioned is that I'm gonna start blogging about it.

Emily Thompson 2:07
Yeah. I'm so excited about this.

Kathleen Shannon 2:11
Which is so funny because like in typical Being Boss fashion, we do a whole podcast episode about whether or not blogging is dead. And we're like, yeah, and no. And yet here I am coming full circle back to where I started. So I actually started my creative career as a freelancer and entrepreneur through my personal blog where I was blogging about remodeling my old historical home. And here I am, again, what 10, 11, 12 years later, blogging again about my dream house.

Emily Thompson 2:44
I love it.

Kathleen Shannon 2:45
So I'm hoping that it'll launch this summer, everyone stay tuned, I'll keep everyone updated. But for now, I'm just trying to make it to closing Fingers crossed.

Emily Thompson 2:55
Right Fingers crossed. Hopefully just knock on some wood over there.

Kathleen Shannon 3:00
There's plenty of it.

Emily Thompson 3:01
Right? I know. And I love that you're going back and doing this. You know, we've had several conversations, I'm sure we'll talk about it again, as the blog comes to light about how blogging has changed. And if you haven't listened to the last episode that we did, we'll also link that in the show notes. But it's literally the episode that came before this one about you know, is blogging dead. We talk about how we've seen blogging evolve over the last few years. So it's been really interesting having these conversations with you about how your approach to blogging will change. Sort of in reflecting back the things that we've talked about. So, you know, we're not just those people who sit here talking about this shit, guys, we're actually like.

Kathleen Shannon 3:44
We're actually doing it.

Emily Thompson 3:45
Yeah, we will actually go out and do it. So it's been fun to see, it's been fun to sort of have these like business bestie planning meetings around what it is your blog is going to look and feel like the sort of content you're going to share what you know, the consistency will be like and all of those things. And again, we'll talk about that as it comes to light. But it is fun to see you back in this space. Because and my favorite part of it is how excited you get when you talk about it. You are stoked.

Kathleen Shannon 4:10
Yeah, I've been feeling a really creative lately. The juices are flowing. So I'm really excited to get back to it. I've been, I've been on the back end designing things and really figuring out what I want to do with my old content. It's so funny that going into blogging now has so much more to do with data and organization and content versus you know, just throwing a blog up and going with it. But I'll talk about more of that later. I also want to mention that we got to hang out in real life this past weekend.

Emily Thompson 4:42
Yes, where I may or may not have gotten a drive by of this new house too.

Emily Thompson 4:48
Yeah, you got to see the new house.

Emily Thompson 4:50
We also cooked and ate a lot of food.

Kathleen Shannon 4:52
So much food. Emily finally taught me how to use my Instant Pot that she made me buy. Something like a year ago I hadn't even taken out of the box, she was laughing at me because I think that you thought I was exaggerating whenever I told you that I hadn't opened it yet. And you took off the lid and there was so plastic inside like it had to be washed.

Emily Thompson 5:13
Yeah, literally never used before. So it was fun Kathleen and I hung out in the kitchen for a couple of days, we, I told her how to hard boiled eggs in the instapot which is my favorite thing to do with it. And then we also opened up the Whole 30 Slow Cooker Cookbook and did some cooking out of there. And the instant pot, it was a ton of fun to be together and hang out. We also did some Instagram stories, answering some questions, which was a blast.

Kathleen Shannon 5:40
Ooh. And we didn't get to all those questions. So if you stay to the very end of this episode, I've pasted some of them in there as a quick fire.

Emily Thompson 5:47
Perfect. I'm excited. So yes, we got to hang out together in real life. We were also speaking at a conference where we got to meet a bunch of bosses, which was a ton of fun, we are continually reminded how much we love hanging out with bosses, how you guys are the most genuine, authentic, stylish, right and excited, excited people to be around. So we are super excited to have met, any of you who may be listening. We like to hang out with you and with each other.

Kathleen Shannon 6:16
Of course, one of the questions that we got asked there in person from someone attending was any advice for, you know, podcasting with another host and what that's like and your advice Emily was hanging out in person, if you're recording a podcast with someone across the country, make an effort to connect with them in person in real life. At least once a year, wouldn't you say?

Emily Thompson 6:40
Absolutely. Because that in real life face to face, same physical space connection is so much more than, you know any Skype date or Zoom date could ever be. So yeah, if you are collaborating closely with someone on something like a podcast, or on a business or on a project or whatever, nothing, nothing, nothing can replace that in real life time together, for sure.

Kathleen Shannon 7:09
Um, so maybe just a little bit of housekeeping because we have a few more in real life events coming up over the summer and fall. So first is Being Boss Guatemala, we still have some spots open, if you want to join us in Guatemala, just go to beingboss.club/guatemala, we've partnered with Cooperative for Education. And it's an amazing nonprofit that, you know, Michelle Obama herself has fist bumped. I don't know that that's true. But it has been reviewed by the Obama Foundation, it checks out on all the charity navigators and that sort of thing. So we're really excited to be going to Guatemala. And then beyond that, I'm speaking at Camp Climb. I think that's in August. And then I'm also speaking at the Whole 30 Coaches Retreat. So if you were a Whole 30, coach, certified coach, and you're planning on going to Park City, Utah, I will see you there. Emily, do you have any speaking gigs coming up?

Emily Thompson 8:05
I do have a small one that's coming up in August. I got that TEDx Talk.

Kathleen Shannon 8:12
Oh, just a small, just a small little TEDx.

Emily Thompson 8:16
Right? Yes, I'm super excited to finally announced that I did get accepted for the TEDx talk that I was talking about a couple of episodes ago. So in August, I will be in Florence, Alabama, doing a TEDx Talk. I'm not going to share too much about the content yet. But if you want to follow me on Instagram, I will be sharing more there as it comes along. And then obviously, we'll be talking about it here as well.

Emily Thompson 8:47
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Kathleen Shannon 9:24
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Kathleen Shannon 10:24
Alright, Emily, I want to do a deep dive into the topic of honing your craft. We've been getting asked a lot, how can I monetize? How can I get paid to do what I love? How can I start a podcast? How can I blog, you know, just all of these questions. And I feel like the path always leads back to just practice getting better at what you want to do, like make what you do the focus beyond how you monetize the business model. And that stuff is important too. But step number one, practice your craft, hone your craft become an expert, get better.

Emily Thompson 11:07
Amen, amen. Amen to all of that, for sure, we are getting lots of questions around this thing, and even things like so if you are someone who is struggling with finding focus, who doesn't know what to do next, who wants to know where you should put your resources? Or where to invest next in your business? Quite often the answer is get great at what it is that you want to do. I think especially in the online world, but I think in business in general, it's very easy to get to get pulled in a million different directions and think that you need to be great at social media marketing, to think that you need to be you know, building a community of fans, and you do need to be doing all of these things. But we're here to tell you that these things will happen much more easily. And very organically, if what you are really focusing on is getting great at what it is that you are here to do. And I always find that there is the biggest disconnect the biggest struggles, you know, the hardest challenges come to entrepreneurs whenever they forget that the focus is supposed to be on what it is that they, what the work is that they are here to do. So let's dive into it.

Kathleen Shannon 12:28
Okay, so let's start at what do you do if you don't know what it is that you want to be good at? You know, because I think that's the first step is deciding what you want to be great at. And I'm thinking back to one of my earlier examples of being in college and getting into the graphic design program. And really, my main focus along the way, was just wanting to be the best graphic designer I could be. And that focus continued on through graduation. And through my first couple of jobs.

Emily Thompson 12:57
I think there's so much here, I similarly did something where I not too long ago. And then some swings of like, identity crisis, perhaps it's a little dramatic, but kind of. I went back and looked at some old journals, as well as like some old like guided journals like these prompts that I was answering and found words coming up over and over that also mirrored some like old dreams that I had in college, and even like high school, and a word kept popping up for me. And that being curator, that being a word that I've always identified with, I've always, I once had this dream of being the curator of the Louvre as if you need small dreams, right. And whenever I looked back, I saw this thread weaving itself through literally everything that I've done. And whether that was you know, whenever I built my first website, some of the collaborations that I was working on or even like I have a minor in art history, or even like bringing up further into Being Boss, like what you and I are doing here. We're curating content, we're creating content, but we're also curating it. And really bringing that into Almanac and seeing that sort of that piece weaving itself into what I was doing there. I think whenever you look back at what it is that you've been interested in for years, you see these common threads. And if you have something like old journals to look at, that can be really helpful as well. But if not just sit down and make a list. Sit down and make a list of all the jobs that you've loved or what it is that you've loved about the jobs that you've had, what sort of dreams you've had growing up and find the common threads. I think that we all have these little inklings sort of pushing us all along the way. And it's the moments when we realize it that it's easy for us to identify that these are the things that we should be focusing on when it comes to honing our craft.

Kathleen Shannon 15:06
Yeah, I think that if you don't know what it is that you want to be great at, stop thinking of it as Oh, I need to find my passion or my purpose, or I need to figure out what it is that I want to do whenever I grow up. And really just start following your curiosity. Like if you wake up, and you want to do something, like let's say, design a new blog template for yourself, or write a blog post for a blog that you don't even have yet, you know, open up a Google Doc, just follow your curiosity and act on it. But that's not enough. I think that if you can continue to follow your curiosity and see it through like, like make little accomplishments along the way, you start to gain momentum, you start to gain commitment, and you start to almost uncover the focus, right? So you might not go into it with a focused effort of what it is that you want to do. But if you just keep, I keep saying following the curiosity, does that make sense to you? Like what that means?

Emily Thompson 16:04
Yes, it does for me, or even think so if anyone has read Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert, she talks specifically about how, if you don't know what you want to do next, follow your curiosity. And her example is around, you know, she is a writer, she wanted to write her next book, but had no idea what it was going to be about. So she just like, chose something she was curious in and dove in. And for her, it was gardening. Here we go. And then soon, there was like a spark of inspiration for her next book, just by like going down the path of something that she was interested in. I think a lot of times, again, modern society has us thinking we need to be consistently productive. We need to be producing something at all times, we need to be focused and committed and all of these things. But I think, if we don't know what that is, there's not a lot of permission, I think to just like, go to the library and see what books you're interested in, or get on Pinterest and hang out a while and see what you're pinning most of, or whatever.

Kathleen Shannon 16:21
But you know what, I've been on Pinterest a lot lately, because I'm thinking about, I'm daydreaming about designing this new home, right. And so it's the things I'm curious about is sparking a lot of creativity. At the same time, I'm being served a lot of ads, and I'm being served a lot of the same stuff, like a lot of sameness. Everything is starting to look so homogenous. And so the same. Yeah. So I like the idea of going to the library, where it's a little bit less...

Emily Thompson 17:33
Look at me.

Kathleen Shannon 17:34
Advertorial.

Emily Thompson 17:35
Yeah.

Kathleen Shannon 17:36
You know, a little bit less consumer focused and a little bit more creativity focused.

Emily Thompson 17:42
For sure. So yes, I think, I think definitely follow your curiosity. And again, look for those common threads, these common threads, the things that keep popping up for you, their little messages, their little messages about what you need to be following.

Kathleen Shannon 17:56
I love this idea. So much of like, going back to old journals and finding the connections. And if you can give what you're curious about an anchor point into something that you've been interested in, in the past or something that you've wanted to do in the future, I feel like it brings a little bit more meaning toward what you're wanting to be doing. And also it brings it like almost a little bit more into your identity, you know, and so I think a lot of times when people feel scattered or unsure, it's really just self doubt popping up. And if you can just trust yourself, if you can trust that you're the common denominator and that you like these things for a reason. Also trust that you're going to be able to look back in hindsight and see how it all connects together in a way that makes sense down the line. So I think that's a big part of it, too, is just trusting yourself.

Emily Thompson 18:44
Trusting yourself and moving forward. Because I think there's something there with like, you can sit here and say, Yes, I want to, you know, paint, or I want to write, or whatever it may be, but if you aren't actually moving forward with that, to test it out and see if it's going to work or just to see what happens whenever you're doing it, then none of this stuff matters. Like you have to do it too.

Kathleen Shannon 19:11
Okay, so I love that you mentioned painting because I've just picked up a paintbrush for the first time in like 15 years recently, and I have started painting again. But first it involved picking up the paintbrush. So I had been thinking for a while that I wanted to start painting again. And I guess it was Black Friday. So this was before Christmas in November, that Michaels was having their huge sale. And I went to Michaels and I stocked up on canvases and paints. Because it's one thing just to dream about it and it's another thing to do it. So I think the next step is once you decide what you want to do, whether that's following your curiosity or whatever it might be for me.

Emily Thompson 19:51
Or if your just like one of those magical unicorns who knows what you want to do.

Kathleen Shannon 19:55
Exactly.

Emily Thompson 19:55
Which is great.

Kathleen Shannon 19:56
Then it's time to behave like the person that you want to be. By literally typing out words on your keyboard, if you want to write a book, or picking up that paintbrush, loading it with paint and putting it to canvas, if you want to be a painter. This could also look like investing in school and education. So taking that course and actually showing up for it, I feel like there's a lot of people buying online courses and not actually going through them. So open up those old courses that you bought, you know, it might not even be having to come up with a new thing, but revisiting an old thing that you haven't finished yet.

Emily Thompson 20:34
Yeah, for sure, I think. I think knowing when and where to invest anything other than time is really important and go for it again, that trusting your gut piece. But I also say the most important thing to invest here is time. Is to really learn, reading books, doing those courses, showing up with your paintbrush, whatever it may be, and doing the work because that's really what we're talking about. This is like a whole roundabout, you know, conversation around actually showing up and doing the work, not like the other work that you think you need to be doing to do the work but doing the work. And this is also the hardest part, showing up to do the work, setting the boundaries, creating the habits and routines, whatever it may be, so that you can and will show up and do this work is the hardest part.

Kathleen Shannon 21:27
So I know that this phase of really wanting to get good at something, a lot of people are looking for mentors, and we get asked all the time, how do I find a mentor. And here's where I want to share that, if you like think about the things that you're procrastinating on and spending your time doing instead. So for me for a while it was watching makeup tutorials on Instagram and on YouTube and then realize that I have old, like Kevyn Aucoin makeup books from decades ago that I bought. I mean, that's something that I've been curious about. And that I do for fun, from time to time, which kind of also again, not trusting yourself. Like I wasn't planning on becoming a makeup artists even though some of you all have heard me here say that I'd be a makeup artist and like a different lifetime. But I have started painting again. And in some ways like that trusting yourself component of art is art is art really ties in there, right? Like, what's the difference between painting my face and painting a canvas, it's pretty much all the same. It's all color theory. It's all light and shadow. And I have to trust that doing my makeup for, you know, 10 years has led into me being a better painter whenever it comes to the canvas. But back to the mentor thing is that I think before you go looking for someone to invest in you, as a mentor.

Kathleen Shannon 22:42
Side note, I want to clarify the difference between mentors and coaches and consultants. I think of mentors and I could be wrong here. But this is how I think of it in my mind as someone who is freely and generously investing in helping you become a better person at your craft. So I don't think of this as a paid relationship. I think that whenever you're hiring a coach or consultant, that's different from a mentor. Anyway, I just wanted to throw that out there just to define terms here. But I think that you can find a lot of mentors like before, you're asking someone to mentor you and invest time, their own time and you you need to be doing the work in advance. You need to be looking at the YouTube videos, you need to be reading all of the books, you need to show a spark and a passion and a drive because here's the deal, a mentor or coach or consultant, they're not going to do it for you. And I think that's what a lot of people are looking for an a mentor someone to do it for them. And I think it's important for you to step up and show the curiosity and the motivation and those self starter-ness before before you go to that phase of it.

Emily Thompson 23:51
Absolutely because no mentor, or coach, or consultant is going to equate to your success in that like very defined if this then that sort of situation, like you are the one that takes yourself there. They will assist you and guide you along the way but they won't put you there. I also want to point out something that you're sort of, that's coming up around what you're saying and this idea of whenever we are talking about honing your craft, obviously we're a business podcast and we'll be getting into what that means you know for your business. But I also want to reiterate for anyone here who's like getting sparked up and curious. This can have nothing to do with generating revenue. This can have, it should have everything to do with something that you are passionate about. So for you being a makeup artist, like you are consistently honing that craft for yourself and for no one's benefit except everybody in the room.

Kathleen Shannon 24:48
You're welcome.

Emily Thompson 24:50
Then you are even you know painting for you as something where you are showing up and honing that craft with no regards to business modeling it out. And I think that that's really important as well. And we've talked before about, you know, how it is that you can stay very passionate about your work very often, it's about staying very passionate about things in your life. So I think you should spend just as much time and energy and money or whatever, honing crafts that enrich your life as you do honing crafts that enrich your business, I think those two things are equally important. One will

Kathleen Shannon 25:27
Well and they go hand in hand, they go hand in hand, the more inspired I am in my personal life, whether that's with cooking, or a book I'm reading or painting that I'm working on, the more inspired and productive I am at work, I start to bring a new kind of energy and creativity to the work that I do.

Emily Thompson 25:44
Absolutely. And, and I'm the same way, there are things that I do in my life that you guys aren't gonna see on Instagram, and you know, I'm definitely not ever going to sell them. But they are. There are ways in which I show up for myself and the person that I want to be the crafts that I want to sort of, you know, carry in my tool belt, that are just there to enrich my life. So just in case anyone's confused here about what it is that we're talking about, we're talking about what you want to be great at in your life and in your business.

Kathleen Shannon 26:17
The next thing I'm going to talk about is getting acquainted with your tools. And this is something that I'm experiencing, as I started painting, again, is like, how to charge a brush with paint and how it goes onto my canvas and how to dilute it with just enough water. And you know it the same goes for like cooking, for example, and learning how to use the Instant Pot this weekend. You know, really, if you want to get better at something, you need to start to get acquainted with the tools, whether that's a computer that you're using to type up your book, whether that's the software that you need in order to conduct your coaching calls. Maybe it's your camera, and just learning all the settings, and realizing that you're going to be a beginner and that you're going to suck for a while but you know, the initial part of it is really just learning the tools. I even think back to art school. In my painting classes, we were just mimicking the Masters because we were trying to learn the technique we were trying to become acquainted with the tools. And I think that's really important. whenever it comes to honing your craft is to see who's come before you. What tools did they use? How did they use them? Can you will learn to use those tools in that manner to kind of almost replicate. And this is me basically condoning copying right here. Like can you copy something and make it sound or look like that. Because eventually what happens is once you master the rules, you can start to break the rules and you can start to make it your own and you can't help but bring your own spin on what it is that you're creating. So I'm a huge proponent of mastering your tools.

Emily Thompson 27:51
I agree with that 100%. And I think that the this... and I have been particularly about my kid who's 11, who, whenever it comes to do a new thing, she immediately wants to be a pro. Like she will pick up something and then be so frustrated if she is not a professional the first time she does something. But there is something to say about just getting in there and getting your hands dirty, and expecting a mess, expecting a really awful, horrible mess. Because that's really what it looks like to show up and do and do any kind of work.

Kathleen Shannon 28:26
Yeah, those shitty first drafts. I was recently thinking that it would be cool to be a car mechanic.

Emily Thompson 28:32
Of course you were.

Kathleen Shannon 28:35
And I was thinking about like, Well, okay, how would I go about doing that? I wonder if I would need to apprentice under a car mechanic. And I literally be handing the mechanic, their wrench or you know, whatever tools they're calling for. And so it got me thinking of this idea of apprenticeship and internships. And I think we talked about this, I don't know maybe at the beginning of the year that sometimes we've found a lot of people are going back to day jobs. And I put that in quotes and parentheses, whether it's to get paid so that they can afford their side hustle. Or I think it's a great idea to consider going to a day job to learn the craft that it is that you want to learn. I am so grateful to have had so many talented creative directors who have helped me hone my craft of being a graphic designer. And like okay, bringing this back to painting for example, I would happily assist a master, you know, artist and painter in cleaning their paint brushes, you know, like going back to square one and doing what it takes to be around that kind of mastery. And also getting paid to do it at the same time is like another, you know, plus one for going and getting a day job learning to do what it is that you want to be doing or an internship to learn what it is that you want to be learning.

Emily Thompson 29:56
Yes, I feel like this may be one of the great like, I don't know disservices of current society is that apprenticeships, I mean internships are still a thing for sure. But apprenticeships like actual skill driven apprenticeships, no longer being a thing. It's actually one of the reasons why we homeschool our kid is we want to give her like actual real hands on learning experiences. So I will say if you have the opportunity to do something like this, do it. But if you have the opportunity to allow someone to do this sort of stuff for you, or with you do that as well, because it has to start at the top for sure. With people allowing people in to see their processes to, you know, create like little mini-mes of you like who doesn't want to protege. I think there's something to be said about passing down knowledge in this way. And sadly, that's a broken piece of our system where it's not, it's not happening as much as it once was. I would love to see a community, especially our community, bring that sort of thing back out into the open. But also, I think it definitely requires an embracing of that too, from you know, that the people who want the apprenticeships. Again, so many, or so many people think that you go into something, and you need to be immediately good at it or you throw money at a problem in order to fix it. So you think that throwing money at school is going to make you smarter and get you the job or whatever it may be make you the master at the thing, but it really is showing up and getting that real world experience that allows you to do it.

Emily Thompson 31:42
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Emily Thompson 32:57
Alright, I want to talk about actually practicing and doing the work because I said a minute ago, that's the hardest part for sure. And I think, I think that showing up for yourself, I think it's easier when it's for business when you can see revenue potential being generated. But it can be really hard for, cooking is probably an easy one for me, sewing like I love to sew completely, like relatively frivolous craft. I'm practicing for myself just for fun. Which means that I have a hard time showing up for myself in this space. So let's talk about practicing all the failing that happens and what it looks like whenever maybe you want to pivot.

Kathleen Shannon 33:48
Oh, well hang on, I want to go back to the sewing thing first because for me, if I love doing something, it's not hard for me to show up for it and to do it. So for example, this blog, for example, that I'm starting to think about and design and develop. I'm working on it like it's what I do whenever I'm procrastinating. It is hard not to do it. Right.

Emily Thompson 34:10
Yes.

Kathleen Shannon 34:11
Painting on the other hand, I don't love it. I love, I love having done it. You know and I love, I love how I feel after I've finished a chunk of it. But I don't love painting. And I probably felt the same way in writing the book. Like I didn't. I loved writing the book with you obviously, like it was some work to show up to and I think this is why so many people don't write those books that are in them because it's feels so much better being done than being in the process of it. So for me, whenever I love something, it's easy to show up. It's easy to practice it, it's easy to become a master of the craft. For me, it's harder whenever I don't necessarily love something in the moment. I wish that there were more words for love because I'm probably very similar to painting as you are sewing, were like you feel so accomplished once it's done and you feel proud that you've made something with your hands. So obviously I love it like, I don't hate it, or else I wouldn't be doing it at all. It's just a different kind of, different kind of love.

Emily Thompson 35:15
This is super interesting because I totally am feeling you. Writing is another one of those for me, we're like, I want to be great at it, I want to be, I want to be a master writer, why not? But like, I don't love doing it. Like, I'm not pushing things off my plate so that I can sit down and write today, like that's not happening. So I almost feel like there needs to be a conversation about craft, and how it is that you identify things that you want to be great at.

Kathleen Shannon 35:48
Okay, so this is for me...

Emily Thompson 35:50
Which is what we just talked about, totally. But this is deeper.

Kathleen Shannon 35:51
I know, I know, it's what we just talked about, but it's important to, it's important to remember. And so I have two things that I come back to time and time again. So one is the book Atomic Habits, this is the one that changed my life this year. And in it, I think the author's name is James Clear, we link to all of our favorite books on the website and in our show notes, so be sure to check it out there. But this one really did change me. And one of the things that he said that really resonated with me is every time you behave in a certain way, you're casting a vote for who you want to be. It's really casting a vote for your identity, and for your legacy. And then I also think of Tara Mohr, who is a past guest on our podcast, she talks about the inner mentor and thinking about who you are in 20 years guiding you along the way. And whenever I tune in, and I think about myself in 20 years, the word true artists comes up. And it's like Kathleen is a true artists. So what does that mean? That means that I'm going to show up and I'm going to paint some things and it means that I'm going to write some books and in the moment, it's me casting a vote for who I want to be, it's casting a vote so I can work toward becoming that inner mentor version of myself 20 years down the line. So for me, it just comes down to commitment, I am committed to being who I want to be.

Emily Thompson 35:52
Yes to this. So as you were saying, or before you started saying that even I also brought up my own inner mentor, even like around writing, like my inner mentor, the old version of me, has been a prolific writer, like she has written at least several, several books. And that doesn't mean that she loved writing, it means that she was dedicated to showing up and sharing her point of view. And so yes, if anyone is curious about this exercise, Tara Mohr's book, Playing Big has a section about this, this exercise called the inner mentor. Definitely check that out, because I'm going back to that as well. So it's not about saying, you know, I want to be, you know, a seamstress because I love sewing. It's saying I want to have the skills, I want to be the kind of person who has shown up for herself or her family or whoever, in the capacity that I have done and accomplished this thing. I think it really does have nothing to do with loving the process, by any means. But everything about being who it is that you want to be.

Kathleen Shannon 38:28
And to take it another direction. I think it's easier to stay committed to your craft whenever you're getting paid for it. So once you've evolved past the place of loving, you know what you're doing, like so for me, graphic design is an example of something that I couldn't not do. I loved doing it. I loved learning it. I still love doing it. Getting paid to do it for a living is what keeps me doing it. It's what's kept me in that 10,000 hours. So that's a Malcolm Gladwell reference in his book, Outliers, he mentions this 10,000 hour idea that whenever you put in 10,000 hours, you're an expert, I don't know that I would have put in 10,000 hours if I hadn't been getting paid to do what I do. So at this point, I think it is wise. So let's say you do want to become a master seamstress. You know, and it's, it's something that you want to practice daily. I think that if you were a seamstress for hire, you would have these deadlines and accountability to doing the thing that you want to do.

Emily Thompson 39:30
Right, you have this structure and reward system, basically set in place that automatically you know, creates the foundation for you to show up, but then also gives you a high five at the end of the day or week or month when you are done. For sure. I think I definitely think it's I mean look at just about anyone that there are very few examples of people who who became the best at their side hustle. Like think about that. And I, I feel like there are a couple I can't really bring any to mind at the moment, actually was Tolkien a writer, I think he was like a side hustler writer for a long time. And I think a lot of writers and things are, but that requires a whole different level of dedication. And not to say that there are those of us out there who aren't becoming masters at a side hustle or hobby. But most of us are becoming a master at our job.

Kathleen Shannon 40:39
Yeah, and I think that even with a side hustle, you can have that accountability and commitment there. If you start charging people for doing the thing.

Emily Thompson 40:47
Yes.

Kathleen Shannon 40:48
Versus a hobby, which for me, in my mind, I always think of a hobby as staying free.

Emily Thompson 40:54
Yes. Agreed. Completely agreed.

Kathleen Shannon 40:57
Okay, do you want to address pivoting though, because this is something that a lot of people are doing, and it never gives them that... Well, there's two things about it. So I, what I see happening a lot, which seems to be problematic, and feeds into this idea that you might be feeling scattered or losing focus is that you never see anything all the way through. And I think a lot of people disguise this as, quote, unquote, pivoting. Which is, I think, a more of a euphemism for changing direction, when really, either you're scared of failure, you know, and maybe something failed. And so you're switching directions, because you're scared of working through the failure. Or maybe it's because you're chasing the next shiny thing. And the next, you know, quote, unquote, guarantee or method of accomplishing something. I'm looking at you like, Facebook ads, I feel like Facebook ads was a big thing that people wanted to get really good at for a while, like becoming an expert in Facebook ads versus becoming an expert in what you're actually good at. And yes, that's tangent, total tangent.

Emily Thompson 42:02
No, and the creative crowd is super, super good at this. Super good at chasing the shiny object of not committing to a craft. I do think, I do think that there is a journey, a journey that everyone needs to go on to find the thing, or really even to build the thing. But I do think there needs to be a recognition of the common thread and to know where you're going with it, for sure. But if you find yourself in the position, where you are jumping from one thing to the next, and giving yourself and everyone around you whiplash, then a hardcore, like, inner search needs to happen and an understanding of what you need to be doing or maybe not doing. I often find, whenever I'm talking to people who are creative entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, who keep changing, not even, not even just like who their dream customers are, what they're doing for them. But like their whole business model, or their whole mission, or like literally what they're delivering, you probably need to go get a job and just have some really cool side hustles and hobbies, where you need the structure of someone else telling you what you need to be doing all day, at least until you find that thing. If you are pivoting too often, you're not ready, I don't think you're ready to commit your livelihood to you being a creative entrepreneur and delivering the thing just yet.

Kathleen Shannon 43:37
So I've been offering the same thing for the past seven years, which is the Braid Method in the same way. But that doesn't mean that I haven't evolved along the way. And Emily, I know that you've done a lot of different things as well. So here's how I want to show what this looks like in a way that isn't pivoting in a way that's confusing people are diffusing your expertise. So for me, I've always had Braid Creative and the Braid Method for the past seven years. And shortly into doing the Braid Method, probably within a year or so I found that the method itself this method of discovery and collaboration with my client, that it was so much more than just delivering a logo and messaging and positioning. It really was getting underneath some of their business model and why they're doing what they're doing. And it involved a lot of really hard conversations, and sometimes really personal conversations that I didn't feel entirely equipped to be having. So in order to become better at my craft of guiding people through this method that got us to an amazing design, amazing brand identity. I needed to get some coaching training. And I know that seems really bizarre that I was like wait, I need to become a life coach in order to become a better graphic designer.

Kathleen Shannon 44:52
I didn't quite understand how it pieced together at the time. But now I do in hindsight again, I've been able to connect the dots. So I went through coaching training in order to become a better graphic designer, and then I was able to use my coaching training in order to have better conversations, which then led to me feeling totally comfortable having a podcast with you, Emily. Hitting publish on our conversations, interviewing top notch experts. Again, how does being a podcaster make me a better graphic designer, you know, and really just connecting all of the dots. And I know that I'm centering this whole conversation around graphic design. And really, that's just again, another point along the way to my deeper mission of helping people authentically just be who they are. And me, I'm on that same journey to me just constantly trying to find out and figure out who I am, from day to day, and finding those threads along the way. Like that's the backbone of the mission and the values that are center and core to everything. So I think that that's the way, I feel like whenever I'm, I'm evolving, not pivoting, and I think of it as just the next chapter of my book, versus throwing the book in the fire and writing a whole new book.

Emily Thompson 46:10
That is the perfect metaphor for this. Perfect, thank you for that. I appreciate that. That little gem.

Kathleen Shannon 46:17
And I see that in your journey to Emily, where you know, you've done a lot of things from owning a tanning salon to making jewelry to helping people get their businesses online to podcasting to coaching and masterminding to now having a physical maker store where you're curating things, but it's never felt confusing. It's always made sense. And I don't know if that's because you just have such a strong sense of self, and have always trusted yourself, oh, maybe not always trusted. We all, we all have moments of hiccups and self doubts and like we're sure doing but trusting that you'll figure it out as you go and that you'll get to where you want to go. Right. And so for me, I've never been confused by you either. Whereas that felt similar in your journey. As far as like the evolution versus pivoting,

Emily Thompson 47:08
I've definitely always felt that my journey was an evolution, I can always see where the dots connected. So and for me, and I think anyone can see this in their journey. Hopefully, as well. If you can't see this, then you're pivoter. How about that if you cannot see where these dots connect, you are a pivoter. But for me, it was about adding the tools to my tool belt. Owning a tanning salon was everything I needed to know about running a real world business. Because for me that was before a business could have a Facebook page, for example, like I was there learning physical brick and mortar systems and processes and real actual in real life marketing. And then that evolved into or that turned into doing websites for creatives. And that was about learning business models in the online world. And then that turned into Being Boss and sort of creating this content and really diving into on one hand online marketing on the business side of things, but to curating content on the sort of front end side of things. And then that rolling into Almanac which for me is a cultivation of all of those things. It's the maker products, which I didn't throw in there, my first foray into online business was making jewelry and selling it online. So maker products, physical brick and mortar, running a real world in real life business. And not to say that online businesses aren't those things, but I think you guys know what I mean. It was about adding tools to my tool belt that would culminate into a business that requires all of those tools. If I had not done any of those things, I would have an incomplete toolbox. Now I have all of those pieces and do feel myself committed to the thing. I think that's the key to if you feel like you lack commitment. If you don't feel committed to something, then one, you're still evolving or two, you haven't found the thing yet.

Kathleen Shannon 49:10
Can we side note on commitment real quick? Yes. So while we were on the plane flying to Syracuse, I was talking to you about this blog idea that I have. And you were like, what's your biggest fear around it? And I said, the commitment to it, you know, and we we love Being Boss, and we've obviously committed to it but had we known what commitment it would have really looked like it would have, I think we both would have been scared or at least more hesitant to dive in.

Emily Thompson 49:38
Yes.

Kathleen Shannon 49:39
Right. So sometimes I think that kind of a naivety toward commitment and just diving in headfirst sometimes, like goes in the face of everything I've said already is like don't even think about the commitment just dive in.

Emily Thompson 49:52
I agree. And I think then let's draw draw a wall here, where on one side is like hobbies, side hustles, like fun things that you just want to do like no commitment, you, you know, make that dress paint that painting, you know, take that class or whatever it is that you want to do to explore an interest or to, to, to play with a craft. But whenever it comes to business to like putting in everything that is required to build a business model to create a referral system and to set up marketing to hire employees to do all of these things, you better be committed, you better know that this is something that you want to do for a decade.

Kathleen Shannon 50:31
Right? Or at least three years.

Emily Thompson 50:33
At least three years. But I love a good decade.

Kathleen Shannon 50:36
I feel like a decade now is... We're like in dog years now.

Emily Thompson 50:41
Yeah, a decade is nothing at this point. That's like...

Kathleen Shannon 50:43
No, I feel like a decade is a decade maybe 20 years ago is the same as 3 years now.

Emily Thompson 50:52
Wait, what?

Kathleen Shannon 50:52
Like I think...

Emily Thompson 50:56
You think time is faster now or slower?

Kathleen Shannon 50:58
Yeah, faster. So for me committing to something for 10 years, a decade ago. Like now 3 years feels like 10 years.

Emily Thompson 51:11
I'm still not following.

Kathleen Shannon 51:12
Time is so confusing.

Emily Thompson 51:14
It's fine.

Kathleen Shannon 51:15
Cut all of this out Corey. We sound high. I feel like we do need to be high for this conversation. What is time?

Emily Thompson 51:21
Right? What is time? Okay, yeah, I maybe like keep in the ten year part. And then cut Kathleen going wait dog years. Right. Okay. So before we start wrapping this up, because I know we're getting, I know we're getting towards the end here, I want to talk a little bit about what it actually, like what you need to do to actually show up and do this work. Because that is the important part to honing your craft. And that's what we're trying to talk about here, one how to find the thing, but two actually showing up and doing it. Because this can be the hardest part. And I mentioned earlier that it's about habits and routines, it's about creating boundaries, it's about committing to the thing for sure. I also want to point out something you brought up earlier, which I want to bring up you mentioned having or honing crafts, or honing your craft in a way that's aligned with your values or choosing a craft that's aligned with your values. if you guys are unfamiliar with with your values, if you don't know what it is that you value, then you can go to beingboss.club/values. Or also check out the Being Boss book where we have an exercise in there where you can identify your values. Whenever you are choosing a craft, if it's something that you want to dedicate that 10,000 hours to or whatever, it's going to be much easier for you to do this, if it actually contributes to who you want to be as a person, as how you how you identify yourself and you know, want to contribute to society. So the values piece there is very important. But I want to talk really quickly on some maybe some practical like routines, some habits and routines that you can set up some boundaries that you may have create. So maybe if you can touch on how it is that you show up for yourself to paint?

Kathleen Shannon 53:10
Yeah, this is a great question. Because again, I don't love doing it. And for me, one, if it's light outside and has been so dreary and gloomy that if the sun's out, I'm taking advantage of it, and I'm going to paint also realizing that you can get so much more done in 15 or 20 minutes, then you give yourself credit for I know that even for our book, I was writing our book in 15 to 20 minute increments a lot of times. So really just getting started, even if you don't have a whole lot of time is one of those habits or routines. Especially if I'm in between things like let's say I have 30 minutes in between ending a meeting and going and picking up my kid from school, I might just bust out the paints a little bit and start going or especially if it isn't a time whenever I have to like go pick up my kid, for example, sometimes that 30 minutes will turn into an hour or into 90 minutes. And it's just the getting started part. That's the hardest part.

Emily Thompson 54:09
Isn't that the truth. Getting started is always the hardest.

Kathleen Shannon 54:12
Like getting started with the actual like putting the paints on the plate. And I have to think of it that way. Like okay, the very next step is unscrewing the cap on this paint and getting the plate and putting the paint on the plate and getting a jar of water and sticking the brush in the paint. I know that this sounds really like Well, no, duh, that's how you paint. But that's literally how anybody is doing anything. I think that we start to get in our own way by making it mean like oh, well, I don't look like a painter right now or I don't look like a writer right now. Like the conditions aren't proper. No, a writer looks like someone who's sitting down at their keyboard and writing or picking up a pen and paper and writing.

Emily Thompson 54:52
Yeah, one of my favorite ways of doing this is time blocking, which is something we talk about often again beingboss.club/time if you'd like to know more about how we do time blocking, but for me, especially okay with this TEDx Talk coming up, that's going to require some writing. So I'm gonna have to do some researching and writing, I definitely want to hone this, the craft is going to be required for me to deliver an amazing TEDx Talk. So I have time blocked out from now until August, basically, a couple of hours every week, the same time, every single week that I'm showing up for myself to do this work. It's not something I'm getting paid for. So it's definitely going to require a little more commitment for me than, than most other things that I'm practicing and doing. But time blocking can be really helpful. For you, you can't really time block the sun. So little harder when it comes to painting there. But I think identifying what it is that you need to get the job done. And doing it however you need to create those boundaries are set up those habits for yourself. I also know that it can be you were just talking about focusing on like putting the paint on the plate and all those things.

Emily Thompson 56:05
For someone who wants to practice a craft, or to hone a craft, especially around your work. I want to dive into this really quickly. Because I know this can be really difficult, especially with all the shiny objects around social media marketing, and email marketing, and I need to follow up on my email all the things, I want to talk here about the importance of honing in on what it is that you want to be known for what it is that you want to be great at within your business and how to invest in that. Because I think that it can be really easy for us to justify hiring a social media marketer, or, you know, buying a new office chair, or whatever it may be, when you need to be making investments and the thing that you get paid for. Because that's where you should if someone is giving you money in exchange for something you should be showing up in your best capacity in that place. For sure.

Kathleen Shannon 57:02
Yeah, I'm still thinking about time blocking the sun, because I kind of can. And one thing, one thing I want to mention is, you know, we get emails all the time that are like, Oh, I know that you're just so slammed. One, everyone's assuming that we're slammed. And yes, I am very productive, wildly productive and living the dream and I run some profitable stuff. But I also am busy not being busy. Like if you're trying to schedule something with me and I don't have anything open for a month out, it doesn't mean that my schedule is packed with a bunch of stuff, it means I'm protecting my whitespace it means that I'm protecting the downtime that I have in between meetings, when the sun is out to paint, for example. And so for me, I have been more creative this year than I have been in the past couple of years. Partially probably because we're down to podcasting. Once a month, we're not constantly recording podcasts and in meetings and being guests on other podcasts like we've, for me, my schedule has just opened up a lot, even though I'm doing more work at Braid Creative than ever before. And I've got more meetings there. There's something about my schedule that has opened up in a way that has allowed to give me time to breathe, and rest and want to do the things that excite me.

Emily Thompson 58:17
And I'm going to say to you, that's not by accident, guys, like you were a little flippant about like somehow it's opened up. Like Kathleen and I sat down to the end of last year and say we need more time, we need significantly more time to do things for interested in so that we can be inspired and all of these things around the work that we do. The work that we get paid to do. So it has been very intentional that you have more room in your schedule, so that you can paint and wait for the sun to come out or whatever, whatever that needs to be. And I think that's part of the process. It's prioritizing. That was a hardcore prioritization of you saying no, I'm gonna prioritize downtime. Now you can have your meeting and a month from now or whatever that looks like.

Kathleen Shannon 58:59
Right. And so that's what boundaries look like in action. And it means having to say no to a lot of things I would love to do. Like I would love to go on every podcast that invites me. And eventually I will it just might be a little further out.

Emily Thompson 59:12
there's nothing wrong with that. Because, you know, 70 year old you who is a true artist is not going to look back and go man, I'd really wish that I'd picked up those extra couple of interviews. She's gonna say high five, I produced that amazing piece of art that I would not have had to time, had the time to do otherwise. And I think it's it's...

Kathleen Shannon 59:40
I literally just had a vision of me walking through a thrift store and seeing my art on sale for like 50 cents at a thrift store for like 20 years before like a 70 year old woman. And I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm proud of that piece and then I'm going to buy it back for 50 cents and then put it on eBay for a million dollars.

Emily Thompson 59:59
There you go.

Kathleen Shannon 59:59
These are what my fantasies look like.

Emily Thompson 1:00:01
I love it thrift store to eBay. Um, anyway, all of that to say, guys, again, Kathleen, and I get asked this question a lot, or I get asked questions often that result in the answer of just hone your craft remove everything that is unnecessary for bits of time every week, if that's all you can manage, then do that and prioritize getting great at the things that you want to be great at. And that doesn't have to be just the things that you get paid to do. But it can be the things that you just want to be known for by your kid, or your wife, or your husband, or your neighbors, or whoever it may be it can be, or something that you just want to do for you, which is the craziest of all.

Kathleen Shannon 1:00:51
And those things can turn into a profitable business.

Emily Thompson 1:00:54
Yes.

Kathleen Shannon 1:00:55
And most likely, if you're a creative entrepreneur listening to this, it will. Like I have no doubt that I'll be able to monetize the blog that I'm excited about. And I've no doubt that one day I'll be able to sell my paintings for some good money. So you know, I have no doubt about those things, but they're not driving the motivation behind those things.

Emily Thompson 1:01:14
Yeah, for sure. It's about following the curiosity and being who you want to be. Making sure you're prioritizing what it is that you want to be great at.

Kathleen Shannon 1:01:28
Okay, Emily, so you busted out this beautiful color coded spreadsheet. And you had listed even in this spreadsheet, some of our roles and duties and our marketing plans and our numbers. And it kind of looked a lot like our CEO Day Kit.

Emily Thompson 1:01:43
Well, you better bet. That's exactly where it came from. And it stemmed from me doing some of the exercises in CEO Day Kit, it really spurred me to think about what it is that we wanted to do in our business for the new year, except a little differently. This year, I use those to create some spreadsheets. But it definitely started with the exercises, the worksheets that we include in CEO Day Kit, a tool that we use every year to plan our year ahead. So it really gives us a chance to sit down get really clear on all of our goals on all of our intentions, it helped me think about my word of the year and some of my words of the month coming up. So if you guys want to get aligned and in the know with the nuts and bolts of your business, check out our CEO Day Kit at courses.beingboss.club.

Kathleen Shannon 1:02:35
Okay, I want to do a quick fire because Emily and I were together. And we didn't ask us anything on Instagram. And we were not able to get to all of the questions. So here's some of the questions that you all asked us on Instagram. And we're going to answer these as quickly as possible. So a question that we got a lot of which was surprising, because we've addressed it a couple of times here on the podcast is why are you only podcasting once a month? And have we noticed any difference in listenership since dropping to once a month?

Emily Thompson 1:03:05
Such a good set of questions here. So we have gone down to once a month. We just answered that here because Kathleen and I wanted more time to do other things. We definitely want to be great at podcasting. And we are investing in our podcasting skills by having conversations that aren't published. How about that? I'm having more conversations with not podcasting friends so that I can bring that sort of insight and skill into these conversations. But also Kathleen wanted to wait for the sun to come out so she could paint. ,

Kathleen Shannon 1:03:39
Yeah, you know, I did feel like I was running, surprise, surprise. I never thought I'd say this. I feel like I was running out of things to say and I felt like we were getting to the point with the podcast where I could show up and kind of just phone it in.And I'm not saying that I ever actually did that. But I could feel that it might go there. If we didn't take a rest.

Emily Thompson 1:03:59
It was feeling less intentional because it was just on a schedule. It was just like we have to do this so that we can you know, release an episode every week. So we wanted to be more intentional with our content again and and really have more time to think about what we wanted to say.

Kathleen Shannon 1:04:16
And our listenership has gone up.

Emily Thompson 1:04:19
Yeah, we've legitimately grown and that was something we went into it with a test and change mindset of we had no idea what happened to our listenership whenever we went down to once a month. But we have seen growth in our listenership since going down to only once a month.

Kathleen Shannon 1:04:36
We were asked what do you do whenever you have too many projects coming in? Do you raise prices? Hire more help? Have a longer waitlist? My short answer is yes to all of those.

Emily Thompson 1:04:44
I know I was the I would do all of those things in turn depending on the needs or what it is that you were doing or the kinds of clients that you have, but I think any of those are perfectly great.

Kathleen Shannon 1:04:56
I'm actually anti-internship. I feel like they take more work than they do help. Like whenever I have an intern, I'm really coming at it from like a mentor place not like, you're gonna be able to do anything for me, I'm gonna have to go back and fix all your work.

Emily Thompson 1:05:09
I agree. If you have too many projects coming in, you need someone who's going to come in and bring skills, not someone who's going to come in and need to learn everything, you know?

Kathleen Shannon 1:05:17
Will we ever write another book together? I wouldn't be surprised if we did. But we don't currently have any book deals in the process.

Emily Thompson 1:05:25
Agreed.

Kathleen Shannon 1:05:28
Will our book ever be in Spanish?

Emily Thompson 1:05:30
We would love for it to be in every language on the planet Earth, chat up our publisher.

Kathleen Shannon 1:05:38
What do you do when people copy your writing style and voice on their Instagram and blogs? I would probably just not follow them and not know that they're copying me.

Emily Thompson 1:05:47
Right? I don't pay that much attention. I mean Kathleen mentioned earlier, literally everyone at some point has quote unquote, stolen something, or copied something. It's how we learn. So usually I see those as the babiest of bosses of people who are just trying to figure it out. I try to be flattered that it is me that they are copying and trying to, trying to model their own voice or whatever off of. They'll figure it out. If it's awfully blatant and they're trying to you know, make money on something that we've done. We have a lawyer

Kathleen Shannon 1:06:23
Oh, that reminds me I need to send out a cease and desist. I found another Braid Creative. Funny thing is it's a bunch of dudes. So yeah, you can also send a cease and desist.

Emily Thompson 1:06:33
Yes, you can do that. But usually it's relatively harmless. I have seen too many people get bent out of shape for years because they won't release a grudge of some baby boss copywriter whose just trying to figure themselves out. If it causes a problem, cease and desist, but if not just let it go.

Kathleen Shannon 1:06:53
Final question. What do you think about drop shipping? I don't even I didn't even know what drop shipping was before you explained it to me, Emily.

Emily Thompson 1:07:00
Right. I've heard this thing that the only way to make money from drop shipping is to teach people how to drop ship. Right? So that's one thing, however, I think that it can be really great.

Kathleen Shannon 1:07:11
Wait, what is drop shipping?

Emily Thompson 1:07:12
Okay, so drop shipping is where, okay, let's say, let's use a fun example, let's say Being Boss wanted to sell candles on their website, but they didn't want to, like have the candles are really touched them or ship them or anything, they just wanted to sell candles. You could set something up on your site so that whenever someone place an order for a candle on the Being Boss website, it would go to Almanac that has candles and we would fulfill the order over at Almanac and send them out. And you can do this with lots of products. You can drop ship from multiple companies at once you can drop ship all from one company. And the idea is that Being Boss in this situation, we get a tiny cut of the revenue of that that purchase almost like an affiliate.

Kathleen Shannon 1:07:57
Yeah, it sounds a lot like affiliate which can also be a gray area. So I feel like we always come back to if it is aligned, and it makes sense for your business model, then sure, go for it. But if your only goal is to become, you know, a millionaire dropshipping. I mean, that's your prerogative.

Emily Thompson 1:08:16
Right, but then you need to recognize that your job in that situation is the marketer. Like it's your job to get people to your site to buy the products that belong to everyone else, or to all these other companies. It's not just about like being an awesome curator or whatever. It's about being a marketer, I think it can be great. If done well, I most like to use it in the case of small collaboration. So let's say Being Boss did want to have a candle. It doesn't make sense for Being Boss becoming candle maker. Especially when they have a great relationship with Almanac Supply Company, make candles. It would make perfect sense in a situation like that, where you can do some cool collaborations. And it's small scale enough that it doesn't become you know, an odd business model. So I think like most things in business, there's a place for it, but then there could also be better options for you as well.

Kathleen Shannon 1:09:13
Alright, you all keep sending us your questions on Instagram and I'm collecting them and saving them here so that we can continue to do these quick fires at the end of every episode.

Emily Thompson 1:09:25
Thanks for listening. And hey, if you want more resources, we're talking worksheets, free trainings in person meetups and vacations and more. Go to our website at www.beingboss.club.

Kathleen Shannon 1:09:39
Do the work. Be boss.