Episode 135

White Hot Truth with Danielle LaPorte

August 1, 2017

Danielle LaPorte, author of The Fire Starters Sessions, The Desire Map, and now White Hot Truth joins us on the Being Boss Podcast to drop some truth bombs around self-help, embracing paradoxes of guilt and expansion, and moving through life and business with an open heart while maintaining some solid boundaries.

This Episode Brought to You By:
"You doing the work is you meeting the universe halfway."
- Danielle Laporte

Discussed in this Episode

  • Developing standards for your online image
  • Creating + writing White Hot Truth
  • Finding help in self-help vs overconsuming self-help
  • Blending spirituality into your business
  • Changing your brand + messaging seamlessly as a creative entrepreneur
  • Why is there always guilt with expansion?
  • Embracing the paradoxes
  • Having an open heart, but maintaining boundaries

featured download!

In this episode, the Hot Shit 200 worksheet was mentioned. Download your copy here!


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Kathleen Shannon 0:02
Hello and welcome to being boss,

Emily Thompson 0:04
a podcast for creative entrepreneurs. I'm Emily Thompson.

Kathleen Shannon 0:08
And I'm Kathleen Shannon.

Unknown Speaker 0:10
I'm Danielle Laporte and I am being

Kathleen Shannon 0:16
fosses. We have Danielle Laporte on the show today so if you don't know Danielle or her work, you got to get out from under your rock. But you might know her from the Firestarter sessions and the desire map and her daily truth bombs. She's just equal parts poetic and entrepreneurial badass, which is what Entrepreneur Magazine calls Danielle. She's edgy contrarian, loving and inspired. And in today's conversation, we dig into branding and raising the bar and expectations we talk a lot about boundaries and we dig into paradox a little bit. This is an episode you don't want to miss and one that we've been looking forward to recording since the beginning of being boss. As always, you can find our show notes and links and all the things that we mentioned at WWW dot being boss dot club. And you can see Danielle's work at WWW dot Danielle laporte.com Hey you guys, you know that we love fresh books, cloud accounting, and fresh books cloud accounting are really likes you guys. This is why they are constantly rolling out new features to their platform that make it easier than ever for you to send out your invoices, get paid, track your expenses, and stay on top of your bookkeeping and really the financial health of your business. Try it for free at freshbooks comm slash being boss and enter being boss in the How did I hear about freshbooks section? Danielle, how we're so excited to have you on the show.

Danielle Laporte 2:02
Thanks. You guys look like fresh. You sound fresh. This is gonna be a good one. I can I can feel it already.

Kathleen Shannon 2:08
Good. Whenever we first started our podcast a couple of years ago, we made a list called our hot shit 200. You were at the top I really Oh, I mean, and now we're in or we were interviewing you. It's happening. So talk about manifesting some shit, right and

Emily Thompson 2:29
the most largest Thank you ever for being here for sure. We we've been such a big fan. And Kathleen and I have been working with online entrepreneurs for years. And there's always a couple of names that show up. Kathleen has been doing branding. I've been doing websites for a couple of years. And whenever it comes to people who have like inspiration for their business and also for their design. Danielle Laporte is always at the top of that.

Danielle Laporte 2:53
I have apparently, apparently I'm it's become really annoying for people, designers talk to me, and I'm like, God, if we hear your name one more time, I'm like, oh, man, it's a good thing. Yeah, right. No, it's not. It's

Emily Thompson 3:05
definitely not annoying, but it's always, it's always expected and exciting because because you are you're one of those online entrepreneurs that gets how important design is for online entrepreneurs. And so I just have to give you a bit of a thank you for for really making our job more interesting. And for making the internet more beautiful and multiple ways.

Danielle Laporte 3:29
I've tried to make the internet more beautiful. The whole ww dot internet. Yeah, thanks. Yes, it matters. Like, I mean, it matters obviously personally to me. And since I'm a you know, personality based brand, I don't even think of myself as a brand. I mean, this is who I am. Beauty matters to me. Helvetica matters to me. I want I want my website, which I often refer to as a digital temple. To have this feeling of you know, it feels sacred, it feels elegant. You have you have space to actually think for a minute about why you're there. Because it's so noisy. everywhere else. I just want to give you some space. And as you know, as you know, as designers, it's a real challenge because you need to sell to this is my this is my business. This is my shopping cart. This is the I know that I only have like 12 seconds for you to decide if you're going to hang around for two more minutes. Yeah, so it really matters every detail.

Kathleen Shannon 4:40
Okay, so yesterday, I was talking to my mastermind group, and we have some friends in common in there. And I was mentioning to them that I was going to be interviewing you and I wasn't planning on starting here. But one of them told me I talked about how you've raised the bar and your work. You know, not only the words that you use, but the the look and feel of everything. So while we're talking about branding is so top notch. And I was kind of, you know, just wondering out loud that I wonder if it's always been that way for you. And if you've had kind of those branding boundaries for so long. And a friend of mine mentioned that she once heard that at the beginning of your career, you did a photo shoot. And it was a lot of money for you at the time, and you didn't like it, and you didn't use it. And so, you know, we don't have to talk about that we can even cut that out. But I thought that that was such a cool way of boundaries, like really showing up like, Okay, this isn't good enough. And so I'm even curious for you like right now, you know, has your level of just quality there always been that? Have you always been able to afford that not just with your resources, but like mentally?

Danielle Laporte 5:52
Yeah, great question. So my standards have always been there. It's always been, I mean, this starts when you're a kid, right? It's like, it's the crayons that you choose. If you want your sneakers to work with your hoodie, like it's always there. So like, beauty is my thing. aesthetics are my thing. Philosophically, I think beauty heals the world. I think, attention to detail really has so much to do with your relationship to God and to creation and it matters. It matters, it matters. It matters, okay? And it's also and not everybody speaks this language. And that's like, okay, too. But go find somebody on your team who not everybody wants to clean their house, but you need to have a clean house, find somebody clean your house. Not everybody has a design sensibility. Find somebody who loves you and adores you and wants to support your work in the world, and has that eye and can guide you in that way is what matters. Okay? Amen. I know, I'm preaching to the choir. So that one time was not where I was like, I don't like the shoot. It was a $2,000 shoot. That was huge money. That's huge money. Now, that's a ridiculous amount of money. And I just couldn't I was like, this is gonna last forever. This is going in a book that we want to go out and like, I don't know, I just looked at it. My heart sank. I went I traipsed out in the desert, we were muddy. We had a whole crew It was no I couldn't go ahead with it. That was like a real choice. For myself. My value my worth. Next shoot nailed it. Got like an IT REALLY iconic situation having recently and this never ends, if you it's your quality, your commitment to quality stays steady. But you're constantly working with new people. So you have to, they have to measure up you have to meet you have to collaborate, you've got to keep speaking. So you know, recently I did a video on a photoshoot with a magazine, and they wanted to run some video content on their site. And the photoshoot was great. It's actually one of my best shoots ever, is for lots of reasons. And the videos stunk. The makeup was too heavy. So let's be clear on whose responsibility certain things are. It's their shoot, they're paying for it. I'm showing up as the personality. Makeup is their responsibility. Lighting is their responsibility every their team their professionals even working together. I see the finished product I say look, first of all, it's amazing that they sent me the finished product to have that kind of input never happens. I say this is an awesome you guys. It looks the makeup is too heavy. So it makes the whole thing look really unprofessional. Not to mention my own ego involvement of this not looking like me, I just don't wear I'm just don't have a Kardashian contours. That's not how I roll. And so I know you want this to be awesome. I think you need to throw some filters on this. dial it down and you're gonna look better because of it. And yeah, I want to look awesome too. And because they're exceptional, they did.

Emily Thompson 9:14
I love that you recommended using filters to dial it down instead of dialing it up, which is what filters would usually do.

Unknown Speaker 9:24
Spoken like a designer.

Kathleen Shannon 9:28
Okay, I want to talk about the book. It's so good. It's so so good. So the book is called White Hot truth clarity for keeping it real on your spiritual path. And I want to really restart the conversation here and talk about what prompted you to write this book. Why did this book needs to be written?

Danielle Laporte 9:49
I was so tired. That's why I wrote this book. And tired but still committed like unwaveringly committed To being whole and being real, and leaving the world a better place and making contribution. But, you know, I remember the day, I looked at my day planner, and I just thought, you know, I have another therapy appointment, I gotta have another Oh, another reading with an astrologer. These are supposed to be really exciting, you know, nourishing things to look forward to. And I realized that all of the self help stuff was getting in the way of my creativity. I just wanted to write, and my creativity not so ironically, is what is really healing. So I just had, you know, a slow coming, aha, that all the stuff I was doing to improve myself, was getting a bit neurotic and obsessive wasn't feeling. Yeah, wasn't feeling joyful. And I wanted, I wanted to up my game at the same time, like, start really best phrase to use in a spiritual context. But I wanted to be like clear and more loving, and feel more connected, and make them more powerful. contribution, I say contribution not really into the word impact.

Unknown Speaker 11:17

Kathleen Shannon 11:18
So do you feel like the book kind of is your manifesto of like, here's where I stand, or what was your goal for the book?

Danielle Laporte 11:28
I want? people I know, it'll be mostly women, which I think is mostly awesome. I want women to read this. Or feminine identify creatures, and feel two things. One, relief, like go all the crazy expensive blind, approval seeking silly, ridiculous, naive things I've done, have not been for not that, wow, that was actually deeply wise to get off track. That was just what I needed. That was actually an initiation. And, yeah, so just that kind of relief, that sense of relief. And there has to be a lot of humor in that. And then, once you get off your case, have a couple laughs, how silly and awesome you are, then double down on your devotion. Choose the path that's going to work for you, and commit to it. Stand up, speak out about your belief system, get off your ass and be of service, get engaged in your communities. Nope, just be a more loving person, know what's happening politically. Vote, type some money, clean up some garbage, pay more attention to how you consume, consume last, be kind. But none of that starts none of that, really, you can't really go to the next level with all of that, until you've got some more self compassion happening.

Emily Thompson 13:06
I love that. And I love that this feels like a series of themes that are coming up. And I guess I always there's a funny parallel in my brain between the internet and collective consciousness because I feel like the internet and what's happening online is pretty much like a representation of obviously what everyone's thinking it is

Danielle Laporte 13:25
called mobile brain.

Emily Thompson 13:27
Yeah, for sure. And I love that these are themes that I'm showing up in that greater space over and over again, and especially over the past couple of months. And so I feel like this book has come out at a time when more of a sort of structured voice around this needed to to come out. And because I agree with all of those things, I think that we need to embrace all of that in order to, to move forward or to level up or whatever, whatever it is that you want to call it. And so I really felt like the topics topics in this book, were a sort of cultivated version of all the things that I'm hearing, hearing around me, but now all in one place, which was gratifying for me as someone who's been looking for it to find something that that spoke to all of those things in a place where people are listening. I just got

Kathleen Shannon 14:18
written out. We're gonna talk about how amazing the book is. But I got that sense of relief in that I love self help. But also getting into that place where you start taking yourself a little too seriously. And I think that you do such a good job of like, making you poke fun at yourself. You do a good job of even poking fun at yourself a little bit. And it's kind of like Don't, don't take yourself so seriously, but take your work incredibly, you know, it's that paradox, right? Am

Danielle Laporte 14:45
I on your way to enlightenment? Yeah,

Kathleen Shannon 14:47
yeah. And it's just what I needed to read because I know that for myself, and for a lot of our listeners, we can just kind of go down the self help spiral and it starts to do the opposite. Have what it's meant to do, it starts to make you feel like you're incredibly messed up or like you need fixing. And I think that you really toe this line between being self help, like kind of playing the game in that arena while also saying kind of fuck self help.

Danielle Laporte 15:18
Yeah, I'm PS I am a self help author,

Kathleen Shannon 15:20
right? So how do you balance? How do you balance that? How do you? How do you reconcile that even in your own brain?

Danielle Laporte 15:28
Well, the message really is be discerning. So you have to be awake everywhere you go, you have to be awake. If you're trying to get out of your your ridiculous, ridiculously strict back this upbringing, you have to be awake, in the boardroom, you have to be awake, in terms of figuring out how you're going to vote, like just be awake and don't fall, you know, because so much of self help, is packaged in position as something that's going to be liberating. That's progressive, and freeing, and it's about making a difference in the world. These are all really positive things. I mean, who's gonna argue with any of these things, this isn't about being number one, and, and building walls or you know, whatever it is. But discernment is just as essential, even more so. Because this space is so gossamer, and more abstract and esoteric, and it's harder to see who's genuine who's like on Team light, and who's on Team fear, and who's just trying to suck some energy from you and who's actually giving you something amazing, you know, so, yeah, discernment, discernment, discernment. And that takes courage. You can't have discernment without courage. Love it.

Kathleen Shannon 16:52
Sorry, there's gonna be a lot of like, I need to think about that.

Danielle Laporte 16:55
I shouldn't edit out any of the think about pauses. Because let everybody think with you. I think when I give interviews, I can hear I don't listen to any interviews. I don't. And I try not to watch any of my interviews. But there's been a couple comments where I've heard people say, Wow, you really there's this pause, like, Well, yeah, I'm thinking about what you're saying, I'm trying to relate to you. I mean, I can ask the same question. The same question from 10 different people, I still think about my answer, because I think they can be coming from different positions, they could be asking for different reasons. Yeah, I may have changed my mind, too. So

Kathleen Shannon 17:37
there's gonna be maybe be a few pauses on our end in response to really thinking about what you're saying as well. So one of the things I wanted to really talk about is bringing spirituality to the forefront of your business. And from reading your book, it sounds like it's always been an very important running theme in your life. But I'm curious if it's always had a place where you know, kind of the public can consume it. And I'm curious, when you got comfortable in blending that aspect of who you are into the work that you're creating,

Danielle Laporte 18:15
always comfortable. So always very out about, you know, look, this is about meaningful work, or we're trying to do meaningful work. This is about being connected to your soul. I mean, even when I was doing self branding stuff, individual branding stuff, it was still like, the, you know, here's two words that fit that you can use to design your life from the inside out. So always an inside approach, inside out approach. Always some kind of philanthropic component, always out about my belief system. However, increasingly more vocal, increased increasingly more esoteric. I mean, I was never really I've never hiding. It's just I had other things I want to talk about, you know, I wanted I've been more interested, you know, years ago, four or five, six years ago, to talk about conscious business and being authentic. In terms of your vocation, that's, that's where I was. And I didn't really feel like talking about cutting cords with you know, negative energy with your ancestors. Now I do and so now, that's what I talk about every once in a while.

Emily Thompson 19:33
Was there a point when you felt more comfortable or was it just an easy, easy transformation from one into the other

Kathleen Shannon 19:41
or not even comfortable, but like vocal like that vocalization of it?

Danielle Laporte 19:45
Yeah, just step by step blog post by blog post. You know, and then what's going on in my own life, like, one more meditation one more workshop. One more revelation. Yeah, I mean, you can't if you look at my stuff, there's no dividing line. You can't like, Oh, I didn't rebrand and then get all new age. That's there. I just, I just get flakier all the time. Yeah.

Kathleen Shannon 20:16
No, and having followed you for quite a while now it, you're exactly right, there was never a point where you were like, Okay, and now it's this except for maybe a book, like a book is kind of a hard line. But you had all the blog posts and work and the things that you were talking about leading up to the book. Yeah, obviously,

Emily Thompson 20:37
we've talked about this a couple of times, it's and people we've had on in this sort of evolution of, of people who are doing business online, and I don't even think it's an online thing. I think it's just people growing and having the fluidity to take their career with their own personal development. And the online space has given us a place where we can, we can almost watch that transition from, you know, whatever it was, you started out as, and then see how it is that you become who you are. And I think that I think that you were one of those people that's always made that evolution feel super seamless. I know a lot of our listeners really struggle with that with that point of wanting to shift, where they think they have to do a major rebrand or they think they have to drastically change their messaging to go from, you know, whatever it is to whatever it is they want to do next. But I do think that you are one of those, one of those online figures who's made it very been very transparent, I think about that evolution, but also done it so seamlessly that you almost don't even see it happening. It's just gone from one thing to another. And we can go back to even design with that. But also in your messaging how, how there's never been a huge drastic shift to like, externally at least, it's always looked like a very fluid evolution, I think that's really important for for those of us who are creatives and who see ourselves transitioning and shifting and not exactly knowing how to make those shifts. Yeah, basically, you don't have to make it a big deal.

Danielle Laporte 22:11
I think, yes, you know why it's not a big deal. Because I don't think anybody really cares that much.

Kathleen Shannon 22:17
Notice is more than you

Danielle Laporte 22:18
do, right? And nobody is watching you that closely. Like they just aren't, you know, maybe if, you know, Beyonce wanted to, like do dreadlocks, and that was going to be some cultural conversation. And she put out her 70 million, whatever 70 million, like, Who cares? Nobody, it's you can't really cares if you change your font, your logo, your colors. But it has to reflect you, I mean, and take us with you. I also think one of the reasons why people are resistant, or you know, have some fear around changing the brand, is because they don't want to feel like they're betraying their clients and the people who have come with them. And you see this in terms of coaching a lot, or anybody's kind of in this in the service business. And, you know, maybe somebody started as a weight loss coach, and built a thriving business and was really, you know, really helped people. And they're just like, so done with it. And they want to switch to Relationship Coaching or life coaching, whatever it is, then they don't want to lose the people. Okay? You're going to lose some people when you change, and that's part of evolving and guilt always comes right alongside expansion always. And there's that rub and you just have to go through it. Your true audience will come with you, or not even your true audience, which is like some people will and some people won't. And you have to evolve like you can't not change in order to please your clientele. That's like never moving out of the house to please your parents. You know, you got like your high school boyfriend getting mad because you've changed like totally Oh, so I

Kathleen Shannon 24:00
hope it

Danielle Laporte 24:02
so much later.

Emily Thompson 24:04
Yeah, right. Okay, wait,

Kathleen Shannon 24:06
can we talk about guilt and expansion?

Danielle Laporte 24:08
Yeah, it's inevitable. So there

Unknown Speaker 24:10
Why Why? Why for a new mom? Oh,

Unknown Speaker 24:15
well. Let me tell you, okay.

Danielle Laporte 24:20
Well, motherhood guilt is so much part of motherhood, but it's there for healthy reason. And it's there for not so healthy reason. And the both are awesome and natural. So the healthy reason is, you have guilt when you expand. Well, first of all, all these some some, some types of things will happen to expand. You might offend somebody, you might have to say goodbye to somebody, you will might not be so available for somebody, you're going to bump up against someone's personal issues and they're going to be hurt and it's no fault of your own. It's just humans bump up against each other. And you feel guilty because you're a loving person because You have a conscience. And you don't want to hurt people, even though it's inevitable. So that's like super healthy and great. And then there's guilt because you actually don't feel worthy of the change. And you think it's your job, to take care of everybody and to please everybody. You don't want to hurt anybody, because you want to get the love that you want to get. And that's not the way you get love by pleasing everybody. I mean, everybody knows this, but I'm just breaking it down for you. Since Yes. It's implicit. And the mother thing. You know, it's like Arianna Huffington joining us, they take up the babies, they put in the guilt. And that sounds more like Jewish New York mom instead of like, a Greek. But yeah, you just learn, you learn to work with that. Okay, so

Kathleen Shannon 25:51
speaking of guilt, and expansion, maybe not speaking of, but one of my favorite bits from the book was the wisdom on being paradoxical. And it's something that has been on my mind so much. And even whenever Emily and I are hosting this podcast, we're always trying to tell people that we're speaking with authority, but that there's no one right way and that there's lots of different ways that we can change your mind. And so this part of the book really stood out to me. And it's something that I've been really trying to wrap my head around, like going from being so binary, black and white, it's this or that I suck at moderation to really embracing that, and, and embracing the paradox. So I'm just going to read a couple of these for our listeners. And I really want to dig into one of them. That is probably the trickiest for creative entrepreneurs, or at least for probably some of our listeners, maybe even just for me, maybe this is a little self, let's just do

Unknown Speaker 26:47
it for you. It'll work for everybody.

Kathleen Shannon 26:49
Okay, so, um, some of them are, raise your standards and be more flexible and accommodating, be open hearted, and have clear, strong boundaries, be understanding, and don't take any shit. So you have a list of these amazing paradoxes. But the one I want to get into is trust and do the work. There is this. I, I struggle with it, like how do I believe in something bigger than myself? How do I let something organically unfold? How do I go along the path or ride, you know, ride the wave, and hustle it out? And I believe in both, but sometimes I feel like they butt up against each other so hard that I have to, I'm just confused, or I don't know which one I should be doing right now. Should I be trusting? Or should I be doing the work? Which one? Right?

Danielle Laporte 27:45
It's a great question, because it's a great question. Because, look, it's confusing, isn't it? I think, for me, it's about showing up, like, I'm going to do my best, I'm going to be in integrity. Get the mascara on, edit the post. So it's like poetic and clean and word, you know, economical, I'm going to put on a great campaign, I'm going to, I'm going to know what I'm going to say, you know, like, just really be that, and then let it go. You can't really control people's reactions. When it's positive. Just say thanks. Don't be like I won. Because you can't be attached to criticism, and not be attached to praise, you can't be afraid, attached to praise. And I just like just kind of like I'm showing up. That was beautiful. That was difficult. And on ego. And I mean, this really gets into this deeply philosophical conversation about our attachment to desire. And, you know, this is exactly why Buddhists say that desire is the root of all suffering. And I happen to agree. I mean, I wrote a whole book on desire. And I think it I don't know, if my let me rephrase that. Is it the root of all suffering? If you get carried away, I would say excessive attachment to desire over attachment to what you want, will can cause a lot of suffering. And yeah, so this, so so let's just put a pin in this, you're going to show up, you're going to be yourself, and you're going to do it joyfully. Right. So then the next step is like, that means it becomes even more critical that you're only doing what you love to do. Because if you are doing something that you don't love to do, if you're if you're paying your dues, if you're just going to, if you're going to become you're going to get your degree because you think you got to suck it up for 567 years, because you think that's going to get you where you want to go or you're going to please your parents or your within mortgage or whatever. And that doesn't work out Then you're really hooped. That's a recipe for depression and weight gain, and breakups and faking it and misery, right. So do what you love, because that's only going to work out half the time anyway. But being in that joy, and that integrity gives you the wherewithal actually doesn't matter as much. Of course, things hurt when they don't work out. But you can keep creating move on to the next thing. Yeah, but I think you're worried about trust, we should let me let me just think more about trust here. You're doing the work is you meeting the universe halfway. And then the trust part comes in that when shit goes sideways, you trust that there's a reason for it. I can tell you. I hate to sound like one of those motivational people. I've been around the block so many, so many failures. But I can tell you, every big disappointment I've had every single one, like some devastating stuff, lead to something better. Every single one and ending with a grant a thank you note.

Kathleen Shannon 31:21
I Lately, I've been kind of wrapping my head around trust and do the work by really kind of reframing that trust. And it's highlighted in your book, because I really was like, okay, yes, this is the paradox I need to dig into, by recognizing that I am a part of the universe. So really just trusting my decisions as an act of this is gonna sound like I don't think I'm a God, but as an act of God, or as a part of the whole, right. And so there is no right or wrong. I'm just gonna keep walking my path and trust myself and trust my decisions.

Danielle Laporte 32:00
Yeah, that's co creation. Like you're doing it together, life gives you something, you dance a bit with it. Maybe like I think our you know, our perspective is so limited, like, just think about how, what we've got to view things most of the time. Just this dimension of what we seen here, we've got all of our judgments. We've got all of this cultural stuff that's laid on us about what's right and what's wrong. So then we get to say, that's a failure. That's a success. Oh, she should have done. And it's just, I think your soul has a plan. Who knows how your failure in some twisted way could be creating amazing positivity for someone else. Like, you just gotta leave so much space for mystery. And give yourself so much credit for showing up. It's like, you know, sometimes you do have to say to people, well, well, I showed up, you're like, Where are you taking a risk? Because, yeah, I am not playing it safe. And I know who I am. And when I say yes, I mean, yes, I want to and I have a bill, I actually have a capacity to say No, thank you. I'm looking at you live and by obligation. I mean, you would never say that, because that's not very conscious. And you can think that.

Kathleen Shannon 33:29
I'll think it. So kind of along those lines. I remember you writing an article that was kind of one of those, I'm gonna have to sit with this for a while. And I've actually still been sitting with it. And I think it landed in your book, which is the concept of open heart, big fucking fence. And so I'm curious how kind of that plays out as well. Like, that's kind of one of those. I don't think it's quite a paradox. But one of those concepts that you drop down that I'm like, Okay, wait, how does that work? And I feel so lucky that I get to talk to you and kind of ask you like, how does that actually play out? And maybe how does it play out for you, and even your personal brand as a public figure, but then also, anyone who reads your work also knows that you're incredibly private? So how does that work?

Danielle Laporte 34:24
I am so I'm loving. I'm here to love you. I want to be generous. I mean, right now in this conversation, I see women, I want the best for you, I'm going to be totally present. And at the same time, well, not at the same time. And because of that presence, I just like feel so grateful. And I just feel like we're in this together. Love, Love Love. And I'm just I don't do podcast with just anybody. Like I say no lots because I don't like the name of the show, the name of the show tells me really unconscious, like really didn't think about it, or just bigger life reasons. Like, it's getting too much. And I still like making a snack for my kid when he comes home at 3pm and summers coming up. And so, so here I have real boundaries. So into like being in connected to you. And so need my time by myself like it's not doesn't feel well that is paradoxical, but it feels really healthy. And but so much of the the open heartedness and the big fucking fence. I mean, the big fucking fence comes in. If my boundaries are crossed, I will or sometimes not always, I will sometimes be very vocal about that. You know, like, Don't talk to me like that. Don't, what? That's not acceptable. This is not what we agreed to. Come on. I know you're but you know, so people get called on things, always lovingly. I have not been always, maybe I haven't always been loving. But mostly, I'd say in the last four or four years, always lovingly, and. And then that fence also comes in, like those boundaries come with some more consequences and the word, but boundaries are not always easy to maintain. Like, you say, notice something and you worry. Are they gonna think I'm a bitch? Are they gonna think I mean, you especially this happens when you grow a bit professionally. Like, Oh, my God, I can't review everybody's book anymore. These are people who read my blog years ago, when I have 60 subscribers, are they going to think like, I've got not too fancy pants, it's like, No, I want to be here at three o'clock, to make a snack for my kid. And I have to choose between reading your book, and my kid he wins. or sleep. I've choose between sleep and reviewing somebody's book. So I don't endorse books very many books anymore. You know.

Kathleen Shannon 37:21
I also think for me, there's a little bit of a fear of missing out like, so it's not just external perceptions of my boundaries, but even my internal you know, a little bit of that stuff. Yeah. Emily, are you having any thoughts around boundaries?

Emily Thompson 37:37
Always. Um, I mean, we just got in writing our book, a whole chapter about boundaries, which always, that's always, it's always the easiest one to think about for me and implement, but always the hardest one to talk about where you have to, because it's also individual your boundaries are because you know who you are. And you know what's important for you. And you have to communicate that to everyone else. And especially if people don't draw boundaries, where you do, like, there can be some confusions or not even confusion, but almost like some rubbing up against or in even some resentment, resentment at times, but really big fucking fences come from knowing exactly where to put them. And I think that within those walls, you are able to be as as loving and generous and present as possible. But that only happens when you have that big fucking fence.

Kathleen Shannon 38:31
So I know, you know, I recently put a post it note on my fridge, and I listed the names of the people who matter the most. Because as you know, even like the podcast grows, and I'm sure Danielle, you've experienced this, as you kind of become more outwardly accessible to people, the more it can just be draining even almost on an energetic level. And so just a reminder of like, these are my friends, I call for coffee. These are my family members, I call to watch my kid. These are my business partners whose opinions about what I say or don't say matters. Right. And so that's kind of been one of my like, it's literally my boundaries on a yellow post it note. Yeah. All right. So if you had three pieces of actionable advice for our listeners, who are mostly creative entrepreneurs, or maybe they're working at a day job and hustling out, like a side hustle, or a passion project, what would it be and it can be anything around your book or what you've experienced. We would just love to hear some like advice or even advice that you would give yourself five or six years ago

Danielle Laporte 39:42
was specifically to the creatives and the side hustle, folks. I think you need to set a jump date for yourself. And you figure out what that is like. And jump date me there's a lot of things that go into that. So it's like I need to have 20 grand saved Or I just need to have my credit cards paid off, or I need to move or I need to tidy up this relationship, whatever, whatever it is. And I'm going to be, I think I'm going to, I would be most comfortable to do that in six months or in two years. So like, set that. And then most of the time, my observation has been, if you don't jump, when you say you're gonna jump, a little piece of you dies. And it gets harder and harder to leave. Now, sometimes things shift, and you're just like, hey, wow, I just had this revelation, and I'm going to stay in is for an extra year. And this is so you know, and that's part of being wise you respond to what's really happening. So there's that, but you need to know. And that's very, you need to know whether you're risk averse. Or if you're pro risk, I mean, I'm so risk friendly. I don't have a problem with jumping at all. So there's that. And jumping. I mean, it all comes with a cost. notch. Okay, jumping here for a second,

Kathleen Shannon 41:07
how do you? What do you think you're just born being risk friendly? Or did you cultivate that? Like how to how do our listeners get more of that? I think they're freaking out. Okay.

Danielle Laporte 41:19
I think it's a baked in personality thing. So there's a little bit of that. And then you jump enough, and you build your muscle. I mean, intuition is a muscle. having confidence is a muscle esteem as a muscle, being able to so you know, that's everything you need to like, take that jump, you're not gonna die, you're not gonna die. And it doesn't matter what you choose, have five project this is this is the one I have the hardest time with people. I don't know what project, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Because your soul needs to learn what it needs to learn. You can become a documentarian, you can become an equestrian, you can become a mom, you can work for somebody else, the rest of your life, you can work for yourself, and whatever you need to learn, whether it's speaking the truth, or being more kind to yourself, or patients, or expressing creativity, it's gonna come out no matter what project, you're going to fail at something, you will be heartbroken, you will be disappointed. Pick a project, you will succeed. You will make more friends, you will find out how clear how smart that inner voices, you can be like, damn. I knew which way to turn, I can hear that. And I do that and it's starting to pay off most of the time. And I don't need the doctor and I don't need the psychic. And I don't need my mom's approval. And then you're gonna doesn't happen overnight, but you can wake up one day and

Unknown Speaker 42:56
feel really free.

Danielle Laporte 42:59
And you make another awesome decision. Yeah, okay. The second thing you asked for three things a second thing general advice. Okay, general advice. This is super soapboxing Super New Age so boxy, you must, must must must have some form of contemplation in your life. You need a practice. It can be a meditation practice, it can be contemplation, which is different. That's you know, contemplation is you walking around the lake asking for guidance. It can be prayer, which can be about asking for guidance that can be making a request. If you don't have some stillness in your life, you're going to be a hot mess. And hot, let's just qualify hot mess for a second. anxious. I'm going to say something really controversial here. But then I'm going to back it up on antidepressants. So let me just flush that out for a second. This is an important part of this conversation. Sometimes antidepressants are the most

Kathleen Shannon 44:07

Danielle Laporte 44:09
self affirming, healthy, wise choice for you to make. It's you breaking a pattern, so you can just see some light and then get up on your own. So I'm not anti meds. However, I would be spiritually, culturally remiss to not add to the conversation. We are a culture, we're becoming a globe who is addicted and lazy, in terms of our own self agency, and we are numbing ourselves out because we don't want to face our pain. And basically, we're creating patterns. Where we're just, it goes on for decades. We just write off our life. We're just we're becoming zombies. Okay, I'm done with that. So You need some form of stillness in your life. And I don't want to hear why meditation doesn't work for me, then you haven't found the right meditation. That's like saying, men don't work for you or women don't work for you, whatever your proclivity is, you just haven't found the right person or you're not being the right person. Find the mantra, the prayer, the four minutes, the weekend, whatever.

Kathleen Shannon 45:21
Can I ask you about meditation real quick, because I remember reading, also an article a long time before this book came out where you were like, okay, I used to be incredibly dependent on meditation where like, before you would give a talk, you would be meditating, and you're kind of like, I'm breaking up with it. Yeah. So where are you at? Now with that? Well,

Danielle Laporte 45:43
I've had at this prodigal relationship with most of like, my core spiritual practices, which I highly recommend. I mean, let's do you know, thing. 2.5 here 2.5. I hope I can remember what three is. Yes, I remember what three is, okay. 2.5 is break up with all your stuff. And stop, like, stop, go to yoga. And stop eating clean for a couple of weeks. See how awesome you feel. And stop with a meditation and like, don't pray for a month. And then ask yourself what you're longing for. Do you miss it? Do you feel liberated? Do you kind of like, oh, if I miss that morning prayer, well, guess what? The morning prayer is really right for you. And come back to it and really Devote yourself. Keep a prayer journal. Be proud, quietly, spiritually proud about your prayer practice, you know, so I missed meditation. And now super devoted, don't go a day without it. Very specific about how I practice it changes. But there's so wanting to do for 40 days. This one you do 420 days. Yeah. My last thing is,

Unknown Speaker 47:08
don't be an asshole.

Danielle Laporte 47:11
Listen, just be kind. Why? Why would you? Why do we need to get a deal with everybody? Why do we need to? Why can't we be the most generous person in the room? Why can we be the person who says I love you first? Why can we have just this incredible HR policies that are all about the fucking bottom line? And just just be that, like, be forgiving. They're trying their best. And this is coming from someone who I hope it's obvious. I'm a highly critical person. I'm sure it's obvious. Like, I'm super like I'm radically judgmental, which is part of being conscious. You're constantly judging. Just judge it with an open heart. Like, that was not okay. That was shabby. Just try our best. Come on over for dinner.

Emily Thompson 48:11
Those are really great tips. We have one more question for you. Well, I guess two more, but one more. What makes you feel most boss?

Danielle Laporte 48:20
Most passed? Or right? This is boss right? Where it makes me feel most boss. making people laugh during a speaking gig. Or when people I mean I'm really loving with respect to white hot truth when people are just like, you are funny. Like, thanks. So yeah, I really just want to be funny. Just really, that's it. I don't need to save the world. I just need to get a few laughs That makes me feel boss and making beautiful things my way. You know, it makes me feel boss, when my team says they're happy. It just like that success. Just like you feel unhealthy. And yeah, when that's when someone says they don't want to work anywhere else.

Kathleen Shannon 49:07
All right, where can our listeners find the book? Where can they find more of you? Where do you want them to join you at?

Danielle Laporte 49:14
You can find me everywhere. I'm everywhere. Instagram is center my universe for better for worse. I'm a bit of a problem with it. And then heliport.com if you really want to support women owned businesses, you should get the book off my website. And it's more expensive there because I can't compete with Amazon. But then we give you all this stuff like you get the audio book for free. I think they did a couple weeks ago. I don't know just go on my website. You'll figure it out.

Kathleen Shannon 49:49
Love it. Thank you so much, Danielle. It has been such an honor to have you on the show. makes us feel boss. checking off that hot Shit 200 lists Yeah,

Emily Thompson 50:01
we're gone. Thank you.

Danielle Laporte 50:04
I put that in my bio. Shit 200 I'm a super soul. Oprah's super soul 100 I'll put that out. Danielle Laporte is a member of Oprah's super soul 100 and the Archie being bosses.

Emily Thompson 50:22
I love that. Yes. Thank you so much for joining us.

Unknown Speaker 50:25
Oh yeah, thanks. This

Unknown Speaker 50:26
is fun.

Unknown Speaker 50:27
Love to everybody.

Kathleen Shannon 50:30
This episode of being boss was brought to you by fresh books cloud accounting, thank you to fresh books for sponsoring us and you guys can try it for free by going to freshbooks comm slash being boss. Thank you for listening to being boss. Find Articles show notes and downloads at WWW dot being boss club.

Emily Thompson 50:51
If you're a creative entrepreneur, Freelancer or small business owner who is ready to take your goals to the next level, check out the being boss clubhouse, a two day online retreat followed by a year of community support, monthly masterclasses book club secret episodes and optional in person retreats. Find more at www dot being boss dot club flash clubhouse.

Kathleen Shannon 51:14
Thank you so much to our team and sponsors who make being boss possible our sound engineer and web developer Corey winter. Our editorial director and content manager Caitlin brain, our community manager and social media director Sharon lukey. And are being countered David Austin, with support from braid creative and indie shop biography,

Emily Thompson 51:33
do the work, the boss and we'll see you next week.