Forget Passion, Follow Curiosity with Kelsey Murphy

Kathleen Shannon 0:01
Hello and welcome to being boss,

Emily Thompson 0:03
a podcast for creative entrepreneurs. I'm Emily Thompson.

Kathleen Shannon 0:07
And I'm Kathleen Shannon. I'm Kelsey Murphy and I'm being boss. Today we're talking with Kelsey Murphy about knowing when to quit your job, trying new things and becoming a more interesting person along the way. And the problem with the word passion. Kelsey is an advertising director who went from working with a big name clients to becoming a career coach and founder of whiskey and work.org. As always, you can find all the tools, books and links we referenced on the show notes at WWW dot being fast club. bosses. I did not get into business just to get bogged down by well, business. I knew I wanted to be creative, and I knew I needed help on the business side of things. That's why fresh books cloud accounting was the first piece of software I signed up for to help. I love how visual intuitive and simple it is, while also robust enough to handle my growing accounting needs. It makes invoicing my clients easy and professional and it makes capturing my expenses painless. And it helps me see at a glance where the financial health of my business is. And I encourage all of you to try it. I personally use it and love it. Try fresh books cloud accounting for free by going to freshbooks comm slash being boss and enter being boss in the How did you hear about us section? Kelsey, hello. Hello. Thanks for joining us on being boss. We're super stoked to talk to you. Oh, I'm so excited to be here. Alright, first, we got to dig into your history a little bit because you had like a freaking 30 something. Did you ever watch that show? No, but I felt I should 30 something. It was like a show. I have an older sister. And so I always watch shows that were probably a little too old. For me. Anyway, it was a show about like a bunch of ad execs who had like really sexy jobs in advertising. And I feel like you had a really sexy job in advertising, working with like, GoPro and Coca Cola and Nintendo. And then you're like, Nah, nevermind. Back, backtrack, backtrack, backtrack. So tell us a little bit about like, what made you decide to quit a day job that looks super dreamy on paper? Like what went into that? Yeah,

Kelsey Murphy 2:37
oh, man, I really did have such a great job. And I worked for an amazing company. I feel like it was one of those companies that like really takes care of you. They're like, What do you need? What do you want, we'll help you figure it all out. And so the guilt that sat on me when I was like, Oh, don't love this job was was the worst. And it was a really fun job. And yeah, like you're saying, I worked with amazing clients and I got to travel all over the world. And it filled a lot of you know, could checked a lot of the boxes for me and things that I wanted in in a career. So it was a really tough decision. But I hit a point, probably mid career, I probably stuck around a little bit longer than I should have. Where I knew you know it, my gut was just telling me man, this is just not it for me. Because once you get to a certain level, you have to be really invested, you know, you have to be you're you're thinking about when you're going to leave your kids at home, you know, and you're going to go to work every day, you want to feel really darn good about that job, you know, you want to feel really confident that Yeah, I feel like I'm contributing or this is lighting me up, or this is really energizing me or I feel like I'm a better person when I come home from from work. And I just wasn't feeling like that. So I think what held me in that job was I didn't know what was next. You know, I didn't know what I did want to do. So I and this is something I work with my clients and companies on is that when we feel that unfulfillment, or at least when I felt it, the tendency is to point outward, you know, and to say, Ah, it is must be my company, or it must be my boss, or it must be this industry. I'm just like not passionate about any of it. When the reality is it's just something inside of us. You know, it has nothing to do with everything around you. It has more to do with the fact that like I don't know what I'm passionate about because I've been working my buns off in this nine to five or really nine to nine for the last 10 years and haven't had a moment to take a step back and really think about how have I changed and evolved over the last few years. And what do I really want out of life now so um, so I took a breath and I just tried to figure out every single day what I really wanted to do what I really loved what what lit me up inside everything from like, taking Italian glasses to joining random coed soccer leagues, and then you know, going to small orientations and checking out going, you know, if I wanted to get my MBA and going to massage therapy school. And, you know, I it's been the gamut for me, I started doing it. But I'm a real big believer that if you spend 15 minutes a day, just doing something that lights up your curiosity or makes you excited, and you have a little intuition, you know, little gut tug, saying, hey, you should go follow that or check that out. I think if you consistently do that, you start to see all these answers right? And, and things start to show up in your life and opportunities start to present themselves and doors start to open. We just don't really cultivate that habit. So I really worked on cultivating that habit for a while, and just started seeing all these

Kathleen Shannon 5:50
efforts, actually, sorry. Pause on this point, because I think it's one thing to say like what lights you up? What makes you curious, what could you explore the difference between that and then actually joining the soccer league? Or actually going to an orientation or a night class? or whatever it might be? So can you tell me just a little bit more about that exploration phase of really trying to find what's next? Did you ever think, well, what if this sends me down the wrong path? Like even I, here's what I'm trying to get to is I feel like sometimes people, even just while they're exploring something, feel like they have to get married to it like that this is it? And then they never do anything at all. So how do you maybe coach people through this? or How did you even coach yourself through it to actually try new things? And how did you find time to like, do all these things?

Kelsey Murphy 6:45
Right? I could not agree with you more, I think that we're what holds us back. Besides the fear of looking like an amateur is this fear that we're going to end up stranded on this island of like, Oh, no, I made a huge mistake, and I can't turn back. So we kind of stopped dead in our tracks. And we get to the end of our day, and we're super exhausted, and we pour a glass of wine, and we turn on Netflix, and then rinse and repeat. You know, I'm so I'm a big advocate of finding 15 minute chunks. And I really believe that, if we were to do one thing are focused on one thing for 15 minutes a day for like, let's just say seven days, you know, seven days for the next seven days, or something you're curious about whether it's starting a podcast or starting a blog, or, you know, changing industries and becoming a creative becoming, you know, a writer or an art director, and you know, even if that's nothing that you've ever explored, what if you spent 15 minutes a day for the next seven days? just exploring it, you know, just researching it, you know, looking at people on LinkedIn that did that, you know, finding tapping into friends, maybe that know of a friend of a friend that does it. I believe that that habit can like change lives, you know, that is like a habit where if we actually follow through on the things that we're kind of curious about, and we break it down, because that's key, right? If we feel like we need to go and be like, well, I really hate my job. So I should quit and just go get another job. It's like, Ah, no. Well, hold on, I pump the brakes. That couldn't be a bad decision. That could be you could end up stranded on an island or like, man, a really big mistake. So what if you just started cultivating this new habit of I always explore the things that excite me, I'm always tapping into myself and asking like, hey, what kind of things make you curious or light you up? Whether it is joining a soccer team? And mind you I didn't just join the soccer team, right? Like I I took some time to explore that. I took 15 minutes every day to be like, what are the soccer teams? Let me dabble in the soccer teams around this area, like another 15 minutes being like, oh, let me look on Zappos and find some soccer cleats maybe like I can return them if I need to, you know, and then the next 15 minutes was listening to some music while I went for a little run thinking about soccer and the next 15 minutes was talking about soccer in the office. Is there anyone here that plays soccer, but every day, I would promise myself just 15 minutes to do it. Because that's the other thing is it's so hard to find time. Like, we're so busy. But if I told everyone like, Hey, you would find out exactly the job that you're meant to be doing. If you dedicated 15 minutes every morning to exploring something that excites you. And a lot of people end up doing that a lot of my clients end up doing that and it shifts things they find their mentors, they find new jobs or they find out they're so happy in their current spot. They just needed to tweak a couple things and it lights them up again, you know, so it's, it's about breaking it down, I think into those 15 minute increments and making those 15 minutes really meaningful, you know,

Emily Thompson 9:54
right. 15 minutes is nothing like that's like I mean how people like sit on the potty and scream. All through the morning, right? Like, you can find 15 minutes find your next or

Kathleen Shannon 10:05
you're on the toilet, right? Yes. That's gonna be a great story to tell your grandkids.

Emily Thompson 10:14
But imagine, like, just imagine doing it. And in seven days, you've dedicated almost two hours to doing the thing that you want to do that seven days ago, you couldn't, you could not have like, picked out two hours to do the thing. I love how that is so bite size and actionable. And so applicable to anyone who wants to do something new, just 15 minutes.

Kathleen Shannon 10:39
I know I'm a I'm a fan of Malcolm Gladwell. And in one of his books, he talks about the 10,000 hours that it takes to be an expert at anything and like really paying your dues. And so I think that the I always think about those 10,000 hours, and it just so overwhelming, like oh my god, this is gonna be if I want to be any good at this, I need to dedicate 10 hours a day for the next five years, you know, etc, to becoming the best rock climber, or the best podcaster, or whatever it is, when in reality, I mean, 15 minutes is gonna get you further than where you were. And so I like to think of it one of the things Emily and I talk about a lot on the show is stop freaking out about your six figure launch or your dreams to be a seven figure entrepreneur, maybe just think about making your next $100. And if you can just think about your next 100, that's going to tap into how you make money, which will eventually add up to your big money goals. But if you can just focus on $100 that will spark you into action. And that's what I really like about what you're saying Kelsey is like really taking the action, to do the thing to talk about it to peruse what you need the materials and resources that you need to start gathering to make it happen.

Kelsey Murphy 12:02
Yeah, absolutely. And make it a new habit, right. It's like, it's one thing to take a singular action, it's one thing to have this like, injection of like motivation, and you watch this one TED talk for five minutes, and you're like, I can do it, and then all of a sudden work happens, and you get the 17 emails and life happens, you know, but if you decided for the next 30 days, you know, like I every morning, I'm gonna wake up and, and I'll have a new morning routine of 15 minutes. And I'm just gonna focus for the next month on something I'm really excited about. Like, for me, I'm focusing on my podcast, right, I'm focusing on the whiskey and work podcast, and I want to go from absolute novice of knowing nothing about podcast to being able to do a podcast. So if every morning for 15 minutes, I'm listening to a chunk of a podcast, or I am researching someone who does a really good job at podcast, you know, insert being boss, you know, and and kind of taking some notes or, you know, learning how to work my fancy mic, or you know, every 15 minutes by the end of that at the end of a month. Yeah, I'm not a master. But I am pretty darn far, you know, I'm pretty pretty darn far, so much further than I was from day one of being an absolute amateur knowing nothing to a month later being like, I actually really like this. And that's, that's I think the biggest thing is that we want all these answers, right? We want to know, what should I do next? What's the exact job? What's the perfect podcast title, what's the perfect book title, you know, and the thing is, is you're not going to know still till you start testing those things out till you kind of tap into it a little bit, you know, you dip your toe in a little bit. Like, that's how you figure it out. And so if you can just do it for a month for 15 minutes in the morning, by the end of that month, I guarantee you will have so much of a stronger intuition about whether you want to follow this route. And you're lit up by it, you're excited, you're motivated versus you know what I feel smarter about it, but it's not my thing. You know, I feel smarter about being a massage therapist, but it's not my thing. Like those were the experiences I had, when I was searching kind of for my career, it was kind of about dipping one toe in and figuring out and just following that cultivating a new habit of always taking that 15 minutes of action. And then at the end of a month or so you'd be like, okay, I feel like I have so many more answers. And I can either eliminate a path or I can continue going down because I'm so excited about it.

Kathleen Shannon 14:27
I think that knowing something isn't for you is so key here as well. I think that so many people are afraid of wasting time or risking failure, but knowing that something isn't for you is so much better than not knowing. And then if you've only put 15 minutes and haven't dedicated yourself to those 10,000 hours by going back to grad school or completely switching jobs, you're not out that much time in the grand scheme of things.

Kelsey Murphy 14:52
Yeah. 100% and often you have really hilarious stories to tell about it. You know, I mean, I will tell you soccerway wasn't my thing anymore. But I have some hilarious stories of joining a random soccer team and the people that I met, and you know, the highs and lows of that experience. And so, you know, everybody wants to become more interesting. You want to have more stories to tell at the dinner table, you know, you want to be able to laugh and take yourself less seriously. Like the, this is the way to do it. Like go test something out for a month for 15 minutes and have these stories and experiences and then potentially find things that are your dreams, you know, like, it just seems like a win win.

Emily Thompson 15:32
I love this. Because I feel like what you're doing here is you're practicing being yourself.

Kathleen Shannon 15:38
figuring out who that is. Yeah,

Emily Thompson 15:40
yeah, I mean, super simply where if you were literally just dedicating 15 minutes a day to something that you're interested in, whether it's for you or not, but just interested in one I think was how the most interesting man in the world was created. Um, but to you're just practicing being yourself and really figuring out who that is, and what really interests you or engages you. And I feel like not a whole lot of bad could come from that.

Kelsey Murphy 16:07
Yeah. And you're so spot on it is as simple as that. Because what happens I feel like with really ambitious people, especially ambitious women, like that's, that's kind of like the My sweet spot of people that come to me, it's because I feel like we are, we've set a goal, we want to be successful and in our career, and we're going to be right, like there's a there's a path to figure that out. There's a path to getting promoted, there's a path to making more money, and you can start to climb that and then you do and you're successful. And you're like Now why am I not happy? You know, what happened along the way. And it's like, well, you've probably evolved and changed quite a bit in the last few years, last 12345 years. And maybe we focused a little bit too much on just progressing forward, because you're smart, and you can and you're ambitious, and it felt really good. But now it's time to take a step back. And like you just said, practice being you for 15 minutes, like tap into what you really love now as a person and see if you can cultivate that at your current spot. Or if we really do need to make a jump somewhere else.

Emily Thompson 17:09
Okay, let's talk about that jump though. Like if you have been practicing being yourself, and you realize that you are doing something you shouldn't be doing, like one, how do you realize when that moment has come? And to? What can that look like?

Kelsey Murphy 17:29
So two questions there. I'll break it down. Right. The first one is, is how do you know when that that moment is there? And I was always tell people there, there are a couple questions you want to ask yourself before you just quit your job and, you know, go to another industry or just say Hell, I gotta go travel the world and leave because I have no idea what I want to do. Now that that's a bad idea. You know, I'm a huge advocate of traveling and taking a break and going and having adventures. But sometimes I do think we run away from things when we don't know the answers when we can find them right here very locally, in in our in our backyard. So I always tell people before you make that jump, ask yourself a couple questions. You know, simple things like do I you know, why am I making those that time? 15 minutes a day for myself? And am I following my curiosities and I might learning what my passions are through following my curiosities and things like that. So if people are doing that, they say, Yes, I, I am and my passions are not at this job. I will say okay, so tell me who your mentors are. And when was the last time you had a cup of coffee with them? and mentors is a very scary thing for people, right? The word mentor feels really big and huge. And I always tell people break it down. So you have many mentors, like you don't need one giant, perfect mentor. How many, many mentors do you have?

Kathleen Shannon 18:58
Like we think of jack Donaghy 30 rock with Tina Fey, she was her mentor. And he is in this penthouse in the sky and like, like kind of the most mysterious, perfect mentor and I love that you're like debunking the myth of the one perfect mentor, right?

Kelsey Murphy 19:16
I feel like I mean, I when I talk to people, they're like, yeah, I really, really want Sheryl Sandberg to be my mentor. And I'm like, That's amazing. She would probably be a fantastic event or I don't think she can mentor everybody. I think that's probably why she wrote a book. But there are other fantastic women out there doing rad things, you know, um, and not just with the work, right? They're doing things with their life that probably you may want to emulate even more, you know, they may be having this amazing career but they have this amazing balance of work and life or you know, rhythm or whatever we want to call it. Maybe their home life is inspiring for you. The way that they talk to their spouse lights you up the way that they are with their children is so impressive. All of that while still running a successful business or being able to be successful in a nine to five job. Those are the kind of mini mini mentors you want. And you don't want one or two, you want a ton of them, right? Like, you want to be surrounded by strong, incredible women that are doing those kinds of things. So when you break it down to think about many mentors, you know, you just want to think about what's one thing you really want to grow in, what's one thing that you want to be better in, and it can be work focused, it can be personal focus, I think, just just a little while ago, I wanted to become a better runner, you know, so I found a friend of mine, who was a fantastic runner and wrote her note and didn't say, Hey, will you be my mentor? But I said, Hey, will you run with me once a week, you know, like, well, you kind of teach me a little bit about what you're doing, I love what you're doing, I really appreciate it. I love how you make it work with your job and with your kid and with your husband. So she's technically my mini mentor, for running, you know, but they're all those kinds of mini mentors for for work, right? people that write beautiful emails, or people that are calm and composed in meetings, or people that manage people in a really inspiring way. Or people that are brilliant writers or hilarious in meetings, you know, people that are public speakers that make you just think, man, I hate public speaking and you make me want to be a public speaker. You know, there are people like that, that it's like, take them to coffee, pick their brain, find out what makes them tick, you know, find out about their life and their stories and their highs and lows. Because I feel like there's so much we can learn from people around us. So that's one of the other things that I will say, Are you making those 15 minutes? Are you having coffee with your mentor? Or your many mentors? You know, like, when was the last time that you did that? Because I think that they can shed so much light for us, you know,

Kathleen Shannon 21:49
I am so impressed at your ability to make a very specific ask your mentor, because I think as someone like all of us here, I've probably mentored people, and probably nothing makes us cringe more than getting that email that says, Can I pick your brain? Right? Because you don't know what it is. But I'm more than happy to help someone. If they say, Hey, here's my specific question. Can you answer it? And for you learning how to run or become a better runner? It was can you run with me once a week. And I think that there's something really vulnerable to making that specific act asked. But I also think that in that specific ask, is your commitment to being better? So do you have any other tips or advice for someone who is reaching out to a potential mentor on how or even advice on how to be a good mentee, like, for example, you're probably going to now show up to those weekly runs, you're not going to flake on your mentor, are there any other pieces of advice you can give us as far as making the ask or being a good mentee? Like once you're in that meeting over coffee?

Kelsey Murphy 22:55
Yes. So I will give people a specific formula for reaching out to people because I could not agree more. I get a lot of people reaching out to me, and I am so much more excited and willing to share and connect with people when it's theirs. It's presented in a certain way, versus someone that comes at me and says, like, Hey, can I pick your brain?

Kathleen Shannon 23:18
And she would have you get paid to consult or Yeah, right, like, a hard line between what you do for a living and how you get paid and what you would do as a mentor unpaid?

Kelsey Murphy 23:29
Absolutely. And, and, first of all, if you're one of those people that have has just recently reached out and said, Hey, can I pick your brain? High five for being, you know, like, ballsy enough to go out and do that like, like, I think that's amazing. And that is a huge first step that so many people don't do so yes, like so many virtual high fives. But I will tell you a way to make it better. And a way to maybe ensure that you're getting a better response. And that's the key, right? You want to get a response that someone is excited and like why you reached out this sounds awesome. Absolutely, I'd have coffee with you, versus kind of getting shut down. Because the shutdown is really hard that rejection makes you never want to reach out to people again, where it's less about that you're reaching out to them, it's more about the way that you're reaching out to them. So I will tell people to usually do have three things in there reach out to people. And the three things are and I'm not sure the super PC, but it is I will tell people to start out and be really personal. So I want people to be personal in the fact that you've done a little bit of research or that you appreciate something very specific about this person. And you don't need to write them a book. You don't even need to write a paragraph, I would say keep it to one to two lines, but like, hey, this one thing you said in your last podcast really resonated with me

Unknown Speaker 24:52
quote,

Kelsey Murphy 24:52
x, you know, or I just heard this thing that you had written about or I just read this thing that you wrote about in Huffington Post. You know, quote, I loved it for reasons X, Y, and Z, something that's like, wow, they really are dedicated and into my stuff like that makes me invested and drawn and right away, it's not a blanket like, Hey, I'm trying to figure my, my career out, can you just sit and chat with me? You know, it's like, hey, I've looked at your stuff. I've researched what you've done, this really resonated with me. So always start out with something that is very, very personal. And I will say, the second thing that I would recommend people do is to be generous, like, Is there something that you can do for this person in return, like, whether it's, hey, I would love to help promote you, I would love to help support you, I would love to help send your you know, your article off to my friends, it doesn't have to be a big thing. Yeah, you don't have a huge audience. But just that that gesture of saying, like, Hey, I'm not, I don't want to just take I want to do something. And you may not even know what that is, you may just need to say, I really would love to do something for you. I don't know what that is. But I would love you know, here's kind of some of my skills. And I've done this before, where I've reached out and said, like, Hey, I don't know how I can help you. But I have a background in advertising. You know, like, I have some connections over here. You know, my, my mom works at this one call. And you know, I'm not really sure what would be helpful, but I love what you do. And I would love to support it in any way. So I will say start really personal, go generous. And then the last thing is, yes, be very ballsy. Tell them exactly what you want, you know, tell them like, I really would love to understand how you did this exact thing. Or I really want to know how to how to run, you know, like, so could you run with me once a week, or I would really like to talk with someone, once my ideal situation is to talk to someone for 20 minutes a month, you know, and really understand how I can be a better writer, you know, like, whatever it is, be really ballsy, tell them exactly what you want. Because worst case scenarios, they come back and they say no, you know, but best case scenarios, they come back and they say okay, actually, I can manage that with my workload right now, Sure, let's make that happen. And most of the time, they come back with something in between, you know, they say, you know, I can't do 20 minutes a month, but I can do a call tomorrow, you know, I could do 15 minute call tomorrow. And then the goal is that you have such a rapport, and you hit it off with them, if they're kind of your soul person and your mentor, and you really are connecting, that person is going to continue to be in your life, you know, and that's how you want to build those relationships. So that's kind of like the formula I usually tell people to do. And I will say, Be really personal, you know, be be very personal, be very generous and be ballsy and directed the very.

Emily Thompson 27:47
I live this is like a crass a crash course of asking for help, which I know is something that our people struggle with so much the actual ask for help. And in most cases, what they're struggling with is hiring a VA or their first assistant and asking for that sort of, I guess, under you help, but I love this as an illustration for asking for some like up leveling help for asking for help from something or from someone who is above you, but for all intents and purposes is above you, I think is is huge form has overcoming that but also really seeing the clear line between asking for help, and the rewards that can come from it.

Kelsey Murphy 28:32
Absolutely. I love that. And and you're right it is it's Yeah, saying that someone above you is kind of tricky. Doesn't sound as great. But it is it is someone that is further along in some department or area, they have a little bit more experience with something. And just to remind yourself that there's probably other areas of their life they don't have experience in you know, like so for someone that has a really cool skill and being you know, in advertising or a writer or, you know, like you know how to work Facebook, I always tell people, you have no idea how many, how many people run these amazing businesses out there. But if you were to reach out to them and say, hey, I've got a couple extra hours a week this month, I would love to help you, you know, like maybe monitor your Facebook page or take a look at your Google Analytics or, you know, offer you a couple hours of my time you know, in return for maybe just like a coffee date or a virtual coffee date. Would you be up for that? Like you have no idea how many people would be like, sure. That sounds amazing. I want you know, what have I got to lose there, I'll give you a coffee date, you know, and then if that coffee date is a really connected one. You have built this amazing relationship you know?

Kathleen Shannon 29:41
Okay, so we dove into mentorships but that was part of the grander conversation about finding 15 minutes finding are chatting with your mentor When's the last time you talked to your mentor? And this is all leading to how do you know when to quit your day job. Or maybe Even transition from like one creative career to another. I could see this working for any sort of transition or new project. Okay. Yeah. Then what is there a third?

Kelsey Murphy 30:10
There's a, there is a third thing, there's a third thing, then you want to. So this kind of goes back to check in to see, are you pointing outwards? You know, are you do you know internally what you are passionate about? Like, can you say, Yes, I'm passionate about this? Can you say? Yes, I, I know that I need more of this in my life. Like an example, one client I was working with, she really knew that she needed some mentorship and not being a mentee. But she liked to mentor people she liked to manage and help people that really lit her up, she support you know, supporting others, in her personal life and her professional life was something that's a core value, hers is really important. And she was noticing she was so inundated with, with so many high level awesome things going on, because she just been promoted. She's doing so well at our company. But she had so many things on her plate that this this managing of her team and this mentorship she wanted to give just wasn't showing up, right? It wasn't showing up. So she had said, Hey, I This must not be the job for me. You know, I can't I can't do things. I'm not feeling lit up. And so we took a step back. And we said, what are some of the things that you really need to come alive? And though that was one of the things and we said, Okay, can we shift your schedule. So for the first half hour of every work day, you're managing or mentoring. So you fill that box up first. And let's just see what happens. Let's just see how much that shifts things for you. Because it may not shift a lot, or it may shift everything. And for her, it shifted everything, she started to prioritize the things that were really important and the things that were meaningful. And once we shifted her schedule, she was able to, you know, find so much more energy the rest of the day for doing things that maybe she didn't love as much you know. So I always tell people do a check in are you pointing externally? Or are you solid being internally, you know, like, What are you? What are the things that light you up? And are they showing up on your schedule? And if they are, if you know, if you go and you're like, yes, mentorship and managing, because it's not gonna be easy. That's the other thing, right? Like, you don't just decide, oh, I really want to do this. So let me change my schedule tomorrow. I know, you probably got in the habit of not doing that very often. And your boss is probably used to you not doing it very often, and no one's used to doing it very often. So you may have to shift your own habits, you may have to raise your hand your boss and say, Hey, this is really important to me. So I want to make sure I have enough room on my on my plate to be able to manage a little bit better, or, hey, I really want to go to this emotional intelligence or managing course, like can we find time for me to do that. So you might have to raise your hand and have some of those conversations. But if you've checked off all of those boxes, and it's time to go, that then it's time to go, then then you can you can say with confidence. Like I have some really fantastic mentors, I am having coffee with them, I'm checking in with them. I have done the internal work, I know what lights me up, I have tried to put it into my schedule I've let I've seen it in my schedule, and it's still not making me happy, you know, and I carve out 15 minutes every single day to do things that light me up to follow my curiosity. If you've done all of those things, you're gonna feel so confident leaving your job, you're going to be like, I'm not confused anymore. This is very clear that this is not the right job for me. And through that process of talking to your mentors and knowing what it is that lights you up and being able to cultivate new habits, I believe, and I know because I've worked with my clients who have made the shift the confidence that you have skyrockets, right? Because you have so much confidence in what you need and what you want. Next, you might not be able to say I want to be this exact specific job, but you know, your internal checklist. So now you can see 30 jobs that potentially might be good, you know, so then it's on to taking this next step, which is kind of the other thing that I kind of strategize with my clients is like, how do we then tap into all those opportunities that check off that internal box that are lining up with some of those mentors? And that allow you to have that strength and that confidence and that energy that you're searching for, you know? Yeah,

Kathleen Shannon 34:31
what are some of those? Give it all to I love it. I love it. I

Kelsey Murphy 34:39
feel like this could be a five hour podcast. I know. Right? Um, one thing I'll do is so also I you guys might use do you guys use Trello very often.

Kathleen Shannon 34:51
Are you are Asana people.

Kelsey Murphy 34:53
Oh my gosh. Okay. I love Asana too. I love Wunderlist I love Trello No, I I am not beholden to any specific project management tool. But I believe using a tool like that often helps you to kind of plan out what you want to do next. And it's just a way I think, to put things down on paper. And a lot of these tools, right, like Asana, I know has a really good app as well, just like Trello does, you know, they will go from your desktop to your, to your phone. So I will sit with my clients in Trello. And we'll literally build out a board. And on that board, we will list out all of the people that you can connect with all of the companies that light you up all the companies that you would dream of working with all the potential companies around you locally. And we'll start to brainstorm a list. But the list is based off of kind of that internal work that you do of knowing what you need. So if you know you need to be like in a area where you're doing a lot of mentorship and management that really lights you up, that connectedness is really important to you, we will search for that. And often you have to get through the first conversation to know if these things really fit in, like everyone wants to work for Nike, right? And everyone wants to work for Lululemon. And everyone wants to partner with philosophy, and all these really fun, beautiful brands. And then after you have that first conversation with them, you're usually able to ask them more questions about like, Hey, this is something that, you know, I

Kathleen Shannon 36:25
really love that I

Kelsey Murphy 36:26
really thrive in them that I'm

Kathleen Shannon 36:29
grateful to be really

Kelsey Murphy 36:30
good at. But I need to know that there's opportunity for me to be able to do that here. And I feel like when you can have that kind of conversation, when you walk into these meetings, it's so clear which ones are gonna line up with you and which ones you can take off the table right away.

Kathleen Shannon 36:45
Oh my gosh, and so many potential employers or even collaborators, because I'm thinking about this from a creative entrepreneur level. And even if it's not about necessarily quitting the day job at pivoting your current direction, whenever it comes to connecting with other people and telling them what you want. There is nothing more boss, and another leader is going to recognize that leadership in you. And if they're a good leader, they're going to support that and be like, Yes, let's do this thing. Let's do it together. Let's bring you on board. Let's find opportunities. And even you know, as you're talking about exploring your curiosity, even within the context of your current day job that you might be really unhappy with, like, let's say you want to become a podcaster. Go to your boss and say, Hey, can I start a podcast for our company, and learn on someone else's dime, like I think that people limit themselves by either the rules that they've created for themselves, or the rules that someone else has created for them. And we're all just figuring out as we go unless you work in like a really highly structured environment. But even then, I think that you can talk to the next person above you and say, here's what I'm interested in, here's how I'm thinking about doing and do it

Kelsey Murphy 37:58
100% and take the pressure off being perfect at it, take the pressure off doing it. So it's going to be successful, do it because it's it's something you're curious about, do it for the goal of learning, you know, do it for the goal of just having fun, because often I feel like we teach ourselves when we're in the nine to five world, that everything that you do has to lead to something, you know, the next step, the next promotion the next level. And it's like, wait, no, it doesn't. Because that next step, and that next level may actually not be what makes you happy. But testing out a podcast or testing out a blog, or Hey, I want to learn how to build websites, you know, like, like taking those small classes. And yes, asking your boss telling them, Hey, I know I want to build websites. And I know I am in, you know, recruiting, and it has nothing to do with that. But I think that this will light me up a little bit. And I think that the knowledge of this may help me, you know, leverage X, Y and Z with our next you know, potential clients. You know, if you can find a creative way to link something, you'd be surprised at how many companies have money set aside to just help employee engagement, you know, just to help the personal development of employees, most companies actually have like a huge stipend set aside for for people. So if you could take the pressure off doing a podcast that will be a perfect podcast that makes the company money and is wildly successful, but you're doing it because you know that if you learn how to do that, hey, that might teach you something that might open up doors and might show you Hey, I'm actually really good podcaster I should do my own on the side or man that was crazy. I hate podcasting. But I'm so glad I did that at my company and didn't quit my job to figure that out. You know, I feel like that's a that's a common thing that we we hold ourselves back from doing you know, and and the second thing is like take the pressure off having to go to these meetings and go to your boss and go to these inner views and know exactly what you stand for and exactly what you need for all of time. Because we are changing constantly, right? So take the pressure off raising your hand and saying, This is what I need for the rest of my life. And this is my passion. It's like, just ask, What is your passion today? You know, like, what do you need today, right now? What do you need, and go in and feel confident about that, you know, go in and say, like, Hey, I really need this in my life, or I'm really good at this right now. Or I really thrive in these situations, have confidence that at this moment in your life, that is what you're good at. That is what you feel passionate about. And then leave the rest of your life to be figured out and developed along the way. You know,

Kathleen Shannon 40:43
I love that you say that, because like even in having a podcast, and even as like confidently as Emily, and I will step up and be like, we're a freaking boss. whenever it comes to, let's say, I don't know, writing a book, we've never written a book before, we'll go to our publisher and say, okay, we've never done this before. Or we'll go to our agent say, we've never done this before we have a conversation about it. Or even like with our sponsors, we've been working with fresh books, cloud accounting, since almost the beginning of our podcast, and sometimes we'll just call them up and say, Hey, we don't really quite know what we're doing here. But we have an idea for collaboration, would you be willing to have a conversation about it, and it becomes so much more of a conversation, where there's more opportunity for grander ideas to come out by bringing someone else in the loop with you're like, not quite fully formed idea than to just say, Hey, here's what I need, as much as we are proponents for that like for knowing what you want and getting specific and saying what you need, sometimes being a little bit more vulnerable with people who are your leaders, or people who are even your clients paying you to say, here's what I'm thinking, can we talk about this together, it can just really open the door to new opportunities, and take that pressure off, like you said,

Kelsey Murphy 41:59
Absolutely. And it doesn't sound like you're going in saying, Hey, I have no idea what to do. Can I pick your brain about this? You know, you're, you're going in and saying, Hey, I have an idea. You know, like, Hey, I have a direction I want to go or Hey, I would like to accomplish this, or Hey, we're really good in this one area. So we want to do something there. But we're not 100% sure how to do it. You know, we're not

Kathleen Shannon 42:21
even being specific about where you're stuck. It goes yeah, to like, Okay, I have this idea. But here's where I'm hitting a roadblock. Do you have any ideas for how I can get over that roadblock? Yes. Yes. 100%. Emily, how are you doing?

Emily Thompson 42:36
I'm doing good.

Unknown Speaker 42:39
Doing good. Over here. I'm thinking a lot as one dies, but continue.

Kathleen Shannon 42:43
Well, you just do your thing if you have anything. Okay, Kelsey, and I want to talk to you a little bit about passion. This is a word that has come up a couple of times in our conversation. And even in you know, talking this through, I'm thinking about some of my friends who have had day jobs or definitely day jobs. And they know that they've got this like passion, but they can't quite put their finger on it. And they're just, they start like getting in their head about it. And they start getting really frustrated and then feeling bad that they don't know what their passion is. And I feel like you've got a bone to pick with the word passion. That's all.

Kelsey Murphy 43:26
Oh, yes, the word passion. I love passion. I specifically love it in the bedroom. I think that the word passion can be the biggest passion killer of all, to be honest, I think that we put a lot of emphasis on finding your quote unquote, passion. And, and that feels really intimidating. And it feels really big. And it feels like you have to own this one thing. And so I will tell people to kill the word passion. Stop trying to find your passion and just start following your curiosities. And I really do swap the word passion out with curiosity so often because I think that when you follow things that you're curious about, those start to show you the things that you're passionate about, and they start to show you all sorts of passions that you never knew you had. And it can happen with anything from playing the piano and reading historical fiction to going and sitting you know, shadowing someone at work or asking someone like, you know, for me in advertising, I was on the account side. So I worked a lot with, you know, my my business partners, you know, and trying to solve business issues with my clients. But also I worked with my creatives with my writers and my art directors and these these super brilliant, creative minds. And every now and then I'd be like, man, I really want to be creative. That seems way more fun than what I'm doing. And so I would ask every now and then to sit in on things. I was curious about casting callbacks. I remember one time we were shooting a commercial. And they were doing casting callbacks. And I was like, Oh, that sounds so fun. You know. So finally, I was just like, why aren't you just following that curiosity? If it sounds so fun, and you're thinking, Man, there's so lucky to be able to do that. Why don't you explore it? fidella Google research, I was like, What are casting callbacks? Like, you know, and then I went to my producer, and I said, Hey, this is crazy. Could I sit in on your casting callbacks? And she was like, No, that's crazy. You cannot. It's like, okay, but I really want to see what it's like. And she was like, Alright, well, you know, maybe I could show you a couple of videos. And so she started by showing me a few videos. And then when I kind of won her over, and was like, Wow, it's really cool. I could totally see why you picked this person over this person. And now I understand. And actually, that's gonna help me sell it to the client better. All of a sudden, she was like, Well, okay, maybe you can sit in on the next casting callback. And then there I was sitting in the room and the next casting callback, and I remember thinking, Oh, my gosh, this is so cool, but not as cool as I thought it was. This is actually a really long day. There are a lot of callbacks here. But I was so glad that I followed that curiosity, you know, and I went down that route, because I really learned about it, I learned what I liked, what I didn't like about it. And it helped me to kind of eliminate some certain paths that I thought maybe would be really cool. And really interesting. They stopped being these like, fantasy cool and interesting. And I started having actual information to decide whether they were cool or interesting enough for me, you know, so I think that, for me, I'm a big advocate of following your curiosities clearly. Um, but I will also say my thing about passion is, we do we do tend to think that we it's a singular term, you know, we need one end all be all passion, and I don't believe that's the case at all, I think we're gonna have met, that's the problem. But good, I Well, I couldn't agree more, I think that we're gonna have lots of passions, and we're gonna have them for different seasons of our life. And I think that the pressure of finding that one passion, if we could take that off, and we could just start actively pursuing the multiple passions, because I think that the issue with passions is that we have all these teeny tiny sparks, and then we don't follow them, because we're like, what's the one passion? What's the one book title? What's the one podcast name? I can't think about it. So it's okay, it's I'm going to go back to Netflix and for that glass of wine again, you know, so I think that that that pressure to pick the one end all be all thing is the problem, like so to remind people that you're going to have lots of passions, you just need to follow them, you need to take action, you need to follow those curiosities, let them show up as passions. Remember that you're gonna have different passions for different seasons of your life, what you're passionate about now is going to change when you have children, and they grow up to be certain ages, and you're in a different zone with your husband, like your passions are going to change inside and outside of the bedroom, the passions are changing, you know, so let them evolve, let them let them change and just be actionable about your curiosities and passions right now, today.

Kathleen Shannon 48:26
So I have a couple of tactical questions about the 15 minutes day because I started thinking like, okay, okay, I'm going to follow my daily passions and get, you know, become an explorer and get curious. And I started going down that, like, what am I gonna do like that real type A, I need to map this out in Asana so that I can follow my passion, and then I'm

Emily Thompson 48:49
gonna wait 10 minutes for the next 30.

Kathleen Shannon 48:51
I know. Okay, wait, wait, all I need is 15 minutes, just 15 minutes. And Kelsey, I know that you're a mom to a one year old. So I'm sure that that's really changed your perspective on how much time you have, and really getting discerning about what passion you actually follow. So like, how has that changed? How you do it? And then kind of my real question here, though, is, how do you decide what to dedicate that 15 minutes a day to like an every week? Are you journaling and saying, Okay, this week, I'm going to follow this curiosity almost to even create structure around it, because now I'm thinking, I might just fall down a Pinterest hole for 15 minutes every day, you know, without like, that's how you explore all your passions. And what I'm trying to say is, it seems like there might be a spectrum between getting to type a controlling over, really figuring out a plan for following your passion and then just giving it up all together and just pouring a glass of wine and going to Netflix because you can't figure it out, and creating some sort of structure or container around following this curiosity that actually makes it achievable. And then actually, we're remembering what it is that you're thinking about that week. And so I guess my question is like, are you journaling? And or is there anything now since having a kid where you're like, Yeah, no, I don't even have time to look into playing soccer, like forget that.

Kelsey Murphy 50:14
You know, it's crazy as I've had, I have an answer to every single one of those questions. As you're saying that I'm like, yep, yep. Yep. Oh, I can't Oh, I can't wait. Yep, yes, I can't wait dancing. Keep going. I love it. Do more questions.

I love it. I love it. And it's so funny. Um, the questions you're asking are the questions most people asked because they get excited about it. And they're like, oh, okay, I'm ready for this. And then it feels like there's so many balls in the air. And yes, we want to organize it and put it all together and make it really clear path. So it's funny, we just went through this exercise over in whiskey and work. And we did like a seven day morning routine challenge, right. And it was 15 minutes every single morning, because, you know, there's science coming out of the wazoo telling you that mornings are your time, man mornings are the time to do the hard things, the meaningful things. So we did morning routines, 15 minutes in the morning. And we started out and there's like a very simple six steps to do, you know, there's a couple steps that you can do. And it's and I've literally created a one page planner, you can go to my website and download it for free. And it's just a one pager and you write down exactly what you want to do for the month, and you just choose one thing a month, and I always tell people think about it like this, I know it's hard to pick one. But imagine you get to pick 12 things this year 12 things to become really good at and create a new habit. So if this year or this month, you want to learn how to play piano, you can do that because next month, you can learn how to become a podcaster and the month after that you can learn martial arts, you know, and the month after that you can work on closeness with your husband, and the month after you know, like so you get to choose 1012 things this year. So what are the 12 things that you want to pick? You know, so I will say just pick one thing and the way to pick that one thing I always tell people take a step back and and assess what it is you really really are craving in your life now not like that, Oh, I should wake up in the morning and go for a run or I should wake up and journal. It's like what do you really what would change your life right now if you had if you had more of in your life, you know, for me if my podcast was up and running and going and and live like that would that would move mountains for me right? That would be huge, like so that's a really important thing for me in my life right now. for other people. It's like if I lost five pounds, like I would feel significantly more sexy and confident come the end of the day, you know so take a look at your life as a whole What is one thing that would really change and for a lot of people it is if I felt more confident in my career if I felt more confident in the work that I was doing, you know so that is what we dedicate those 15 minutes towards you know, and I'll ask people how do you want to feel about that? Like how do you want to feel about your work? How do you want to feel about your body like what are some of the things that you want and some of the things that popped up in this last exercise we did with whiskey and work were amazing. You know someone came to the table and said really realized since having my kid I really don't feel as close to my husband I don't get enough one on one time with my husband so my 15 minutes every morning is carved out for a cup of coffee with my husband and it changes the way I feel about my life. You know like when I get to the end of the day I feel so much happier because I've had that time with him you know, everything from that to people you know mentors mentorship is a big conversation and whisking work. So someone said you know, I really need to know that there is proof out there that someone can do my job and also have a life because I haven't found that person yet. So every 15 minutes in the morning was dedicated to searching for people on LinkedIn and cultivating crafting the perfect email to reach out to those people you know, and eventually she went she sat and she had a 15 minute coffee date over Skype with someone and was so happy and was like that literally shifted my whole career and I just dedicated some time to it 15 minutes, you know for one month so I will say take a look at your life and see what area would really really change and ripple effect so many other areas. If you took a small step forward in it and that's where you start that's where you build your 15 minutes you know build that 15 minutes in the morning and then oh my gosh we could talk for forever about the steps to make that really successful you know but there's a couple decades and you know everything from creating like a night before trigger to you know scheduling it in your in your iPhone to you know building some piece of like special loveliness that makes you look forward to it like a lot of things backed by science that are going to help you cultivate and create a new habit all those things are in the planner you know, but you just jot it down you put it on your one pager, you slap it up on the wall, and that is your go to for the month, you know and the end of the 30 days. Whether you make it through the entire 30 days or not if you follow through with seven You feel the difference, you feel how you felt at the end of the day, you're like, wow, that felt so much better than just, you know, rolling out of bed looking at my iPhone and going like that 15 minutes of dedicating time to something that was important and meaningful to me can shift your perspective on everything.

Kathleen Shannon 55:20
I have to tell you, I'm so inspired having this conversation, because I feel like everyone is always saying, take time for yourself, even if it's just 10 or 15 minutes. And I'm like, I do take time for myself. I take hours to go work out or hours to watch Netflix at night. But what I really took out of this conversation, what I hope our listeners are taking out of this conversation, is that taking 15 minutes to explore your curiosity. So it isn't just about taking 15 minutes for yourself. It's about taking 15 minutes for what you're curious about so that you can have a more passionate life so that you can figure out who you are, is so cool. I feel

Emily Thompson 55:58
like this is even taking 15 minutes for your future self. Even well, like future stuff, but also current self because yes, like working out in the morning is this part of your routine and really great. And I'm totally thinking

Kathleen Shannon 56:11
about my 80 year old self in a row. So tight for

Emily Thompson 56:16
like even like more, maybe it is even more like your current self. Or maybe the routines that you do have in place that you know, are you taking care of yourself. Maybe those are even the future ones. But the Curiosity piece, I think is the thing that really sort of sparks it here where it's something outside of that every day routine that you've set up, because you know, it's gonna make you better here and now and in the future as well. And something that it feels like I don't mean to like say scandalous and like are the real kind of way. But it seems like you're like cheating life a little bit. And just sort of like picking out some extra points wherever you can. And I love that because I think that and that nurturing yourself to grow and learn more consistently beyond the things that you just currently have set in place in your life is how you become the most interesting boss in the world, for sure. Absolutely.

Kathleen Shannon 57:12
All right, Kelsey, couple more questions. One, what makes you feel most boss?

Unknown Speaker 57:18
Oh,

Kelsey Murphy 57:19
man, I feel like I'm going to give you the most boring answer. I feel like you know, I work with these amazing companies like Twitter and Facebook and I go in and I, I feel like I should have a really fancy answer for you. And honestly, I mean, what makes me feel most boss I think is when I get home at the end of the day. And I've had the dream day, which is full of the most simple things. You know, it's full of maybe a lunch, a spontaneous lunch with a girlfriend and a glass of wine and a really present laughter filled moment with my daughter, and a fun, witty sexy text with my husband. And a couple really meaningful client calls. And maybe setting up a potential, you know, setting up something potential for the future. But it's really simple day, like when I get to the end of that day, and I look back on it, and I think oh my gosh, I created it. That is the life that I always wanted, like that simple life that is meaningful and hilarious and, you know, touching and fun and has these tiny little local adventures and local moments. That is when I feel like yes, I did it. I did it.

Kathleen Shannon 58:41
I love that. All right, and where can our listeners find more about you and your work? Yeah,

Kelsey Murphy 58:49
they can go to places they can go to Kelsey murphy.com and or they can go over to whiskey and work.org is it whiskey with an E or without an E with me? Okay, yeah, whiskey.

Emily Thompson 59:05
Awesome. Thank you so much for coming to hang out with us. I am definitely feeling inspired to block out an extra 15 minutes a day two probably Google some weird shit.

Kelsey Murphy 59:15
I love I love it. Oh, please follow your craziest curiosities have made me so happy Emily. I love it. Good. I'll send you a screenshot.

Kathleen Shannon 59:28
I love it.

Emily Thompson 59:31
We have gotten so much amazing feedback over the years from listeners about how our podcast has helped them start to grow and uplevel their businesses. So we want to celebrate you. Here's the boss we're celebrating this week.

Unknown Speaker 59:44
Hi, my name is Shana from Pixie studio and I am being bought. I work with entrepreneurs to help them launch and grow their businesses with branding, web design and coaching@studio.com and this week, I'm celebrating being on the maker city. So The expert panel where it can meet tons of new creatives and help them with their businesses.

Kathleen Shannon 1:00:05
If you're feeling boss and want to submit your own boss moment or win go to WWW dot being boss club slash I am being boss. This episode of being boss was brought to you by fresh books cloud accounting, thank you to fresh books for sponsoring us and you guys can try it for free by going to freshbooks comm slash being boss. Thank you so much to our team and sponsors who make being boss possible our sound engineer and web developer Corey winter. Our editorial director and content manager Caitlin brain, our community manager and social media director Sharon lukey. And are being countered David Austin, with support from braid creative and indicia biography,

Emily Thompson 1:00:44
do the work. Be boss, and we'll see you next week.