Episode 158

Using Tarot Archetypes to Build Business Confidence with Brigit Esselmont of Biddy Tarot

January 9, 2018

You might be experimenting with using tarot to help you make business decisions, but what about using it to cultivate more confidence? Brigit Esselmont of Biddy Tarot joins us to talk about using the tarot card archetypes to cultivate more confidence in your business, working with cards that you might feel resistant to, and making money by doing something spiritual for a living.

Learn More about the Topics Discussed in this Episode
This Episode Brought to You By:
"We've got to demonstrate the value in our spiritual work. When we pay, we pay attention."
- Brigit Esselmont

Discussed in this Episode

  • Making money doing something spiritual for a living
  • Using tarot cards as archetypes for who you want to be or what you want to cultivate more of in business
  • Working with cards you feel resistant to
  • Divine vs. intuitive readings
  • Using tarot in your business

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In this episode, the Taking Action Tarot Spread worksheet was mentioned. Download your copy here!


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Emily Thompson 0:00
So I just draw a card because I had blank cards sitting at my desk. Do you guys want to know what it is? Yeah. Queen of pentacles

Kathleen Shannon 0:10
nice. Oh yes.

Emily Thompson 0:14
I feel like that's fitting very fit I

Kathleen Shannon 0:16
say that let me open up my Biddy Tarot guidebook and see what I actually mean.

Emily Thompson 0:22
Give us some keywords Kathleen.

Kathleen Shannon 0:26
It's funny if I did open up right to pinnacles. I like that we have Bridget on the line and I'm like, let me tell you what Bridget's book says about Queen of pinnacles.

Emily Thompson 0:36
Yeah, I'm not needed here. I can just like go away. Maybe this is the reason for creating a riot. Was this a Kathleen?

Kathleen Shannon 0:45
I closed it because I'm sorry.

Emily Thompson 0:48
Then Bridget, tell us tell us your your magnificent words about the queen of pentacles.

Brigit Esselmont 0:55
Do you know what this is like the quintessential lady boss and the lady boss who can have her business all in order, and also have her family and her home all in order as well. So perfect, perfect pig for today.

Kathleen Shannon 1:12
Hello, and welcome to being boss,

Emily Thompson 1:14
a podcast for creative entrepreneurs. I'm Emily Thompson.

Kathleen Shannon 1:18
And I'm Kathleen Shannon.

Brigit Esselmont 1:20
I'm Bridget escalon and I'm vain bus.

Emily Thompson 1:27
Today we're talking about using Tarot to connect with your intuition when doing your business planning with Bridget Esslemont of Betty Taro. As always, you can find all the tools books and links we reference on the show notes at WWW dot being boss club.

Kathleen Shannon 1:42
bosses. I did not get into business just to get bogged down by well business. I knew I wanted to be creative and I knew I needed help on the business side of things. That's why fresh books cloud accounting was the first piece of software I signed up for to help. I love how visual intuitive and simple it is while also robust enough to handle my growing accounting needs. It makes invoicing my clients easy and professional and it makes capturing my expenses painless and it helps me see at a glance where the financial health of my business is and I encourage all of you to try it I personally use it and love it. Try fresh books cloud accounting for free by going to freshbooks comm slash being boss and enter being boss in the How did you hear about us section? Bridgette, we're so excited to have you on the show. Let's just dive in. Like what have you been up to since the last time we chatted?

Brigit Esselmont 2:42
Yeah, I was just thinking when when it was like almost a year ago. Right? It's crazy. It's been a full year. Yeah.

Emily Thompson 2:49
A little over a year. I think your episode was last year's Halloween episode. We like to do a good like loo episode for Halloween and Bridget was our 2016 whoo episode. Thank you very much, Bridget.

Brigit Esselmont 3:03
My pleasure. Awesome. So it since then, Goodness me. Yeah. So we would have we've just launched our BD Taro certification program again, which is our way of providing training to people who want to become confident and trusted Tarot advisors. And they have this training, they have support and beautiful community over seven months. So we've been quite focused on that in the last year, plus our usual training programs and our Biddy Tarot community. It's really, it's not so much that we've created new things. It's been all about how do we just take what we've already got, and deliver it in an awesome way to even more people. And so I guess on the flip side of that on more of the back end, for me, it's been very much in these last 12 months about being boss, you know, like how do I really get into that leadership role in my business and also in the taro community as well. So yeah, I think just slow growth. I mean, it's, it's nice, actually looking back for 12 months in anyone's life. And you just think, yeah, I've grown quite a lot there. So it's certainly been in terms of that building up, building up a business and being boss in business, as well.

Kathleen Shannon 4:20
So I have a question about Tara certification. And I thought I was going to ask you this later in the episode, but I think that it makes sense to put it right here right now. So in our first recording that we did with you is kind of about like demystifying the Whoo, and we've gone there like in the past 12 months, we're owning it and so we can just talk about it from that next level, but I'm thinking a lot about our bosses who make a living being a little more Whoo. And we've seen some people come under attack either from outside forces or from their own inner critic around Is it okay to make money do we something spiritual for a living. And I just want all of our bosses to feel empowered to do this. So what do you say to those critics, either external or internal, that don't like it whenever people are making money doing what they're best at?

Brigit Esselmont 5:14
Yeah, it's Oh, man, there's so many layers to these. And it's so relevant because we've just come through our launch for the certification program. And while I wasn't directly exposed to it, I certainly heard on the grapevine, a lot of criticism about number one, who are you to certify in Tarot? And number two, who are you to charge effectively $1,000 for this program? You know, Taro is meant to be this spiritual gift, and how dare you try and make money out of it? Does that I say Phooey. Like you do. But here's the thing, like, I've always seen money as a representation of value. So when I'm thinking about pricing, I'm always thinking about value. And I know that you know, 100%, I can stand by $1,000 program, because I know it is absolutely jam packed with value. Two of our best training programs, you know, our community, like a ridiculous number of masterclasses time with me, like, I think $1,000 to me feels extremely good value for what I'm offering. So when it comes back to, you know, are we are we kind of selling out with spirituality? Are we trying to make a business out of spirituality? Like, yeah, we are. And there's good reason for doing that. I just, I just get so excited when people actually charging good amounts of money for their services, because it shows to me that they're committed to the quality of their services. And they're committed to like, giving their absolute best and the absolute all, if I felt this program at $50, do you think I'm gonna put in like heaps and heaps of effort into it? Maybe Maybe not. And it's the same for like our students, or, you know, if you're a service based organization, same for your clients, when we pay, we pay attention. And so when you put forward a service or a product, he like, Oh, it's free, or it's low cost? You know, it's unlikely that people are actually going to do something with it. And so I think, again, going back to spirituality, and can we be charging money for it? I think absolutely. Because we've got to demonstrate the value in this. When I see Tarot readers in particular, going, Oh, well, I'm just gonna charge $30 for an hour long reading. I'm like, What are you doing? Like? Do you actually value what you're, like sharing with people? And do your clients value the information that you're giving them? I had to think they just think like, it's not, it's not something that's at loggerheads with each other, it is something that can work harmoniously together. Now, of course, you can go far down the spectrum and start using spirituality, to manipulate people to get people to buy, you know, SEO, it's like you can use certain words to, to convince people to pay for something, you can charge a ridiculous amount. But does that mean that spirituality and money and you know, being a business, is that evil? No, it's just, you know, in some cases, it's gone too far. Does that make sense? I completely

Emily Thompson 8:23
agree with that. And I think that answer is one that can span so many other more dis or so many more disciplines other than spirituality. But here I feel it is most effective. And this also just completely illustrates how much I love that you have the capacity to be such a such a well known and authoritative figure in the Tarot community. But you are also one of my very favorite bosses in terms of just like having that, that business mindset that allows you to have built the brand that you've built. And I think that that, just what you just said, is exactly why you are as badass as you are.

Brigit Esselmont 9:06
Here's the thing, like, I am so crazy, driven about bringing terror into the mainstream and making it something that's so normal and acceptable. And whether it's, you know, whether the vehicle is Taro, or some other kind of spirituality or intuition or whatever it might be. So I'm driven by that need to bring it into a very big audience. Now, if I didn't treat my business like a business, then I wouldn't be able to do that. And if I just treated it, like this hobby or a side business, I wouldn't be able to reach the number of people that I reach. And so I think it's incredibly important to have the business skills to have the marketing skills to be able to get these kinds of messages out on a really large scale. Because if we don't invest in that side of things, then you know, you're, you're, I guess you're just sharing your gifts with a much smaller audience. Which way we find that right That might be your path. And I'm not saying that everyone must be creating big businesses and reaching millions of people. But it's not it's just it's not a daily thing. It is not a bad thing to be spreading this message in a really big way.

Emily Thompson 10:15
Yeah, that is a perfect example of investing in a mission like investing your own self. And you're like, what you're going to learn and how you're going to exert your energy and all those things and something that you believe in so high five. Yeah.

Kathleen Shannon 10:31
Bridgette, since we last chatted, we have really been going deep with Tarot, as business owners as individuals, and really using it as a tool to help us give, you know, insights, or really for me as seeing things that I can't see, I feel like Taro always gives me a perspective, or a new way to look at problems, goals, solutions, all of those things. And one of the things that it has given me is more language around who I want to be. And I'm specifically thinking about archetypes. So looking at different cards as archetypes that I can hold on to as a reminder of who I want to be. So like, for example, Emily and I were in New Orleans, and we had a reading with one of our favorite Tarot readers down there. You guys, she's the lady with the blue dreads in Jackson Square name is JT. And she really pointed out the High Priestess for us one year, and it was exactly what we needed. And I carried that archetype with me, I would remember whenever I was feeling kind of down or out. I was like, No, no, I'm the High Priestess. And so I'm curious how you use cards as archetypes. Like really not just the pull of the day, but really intentionally going after a card in your deck, and using it as a way to study what it is that you want to be or what you want to cultivate more of.

Brigit Esselmont 12:03
Yes, and I like this is where Tarot gets super, super powerful, right? So you will no doubt experience a shift of energy when you go from. So what are my tarot cards I did today and like, you know, what should I do, and so on. So when we're doing that, what we're doing is we're putting our trust in something that's outside of us. But when we're using tarot cards more as like an archetype or more as an energy that we want to manifest, the shift of energy there is great, because what we're doing is we're bringing it back inside of us and going right, what do I want? How am I going to create this? And then how is this external thing going to support me in that process? So number one, I think that's really fabulous that you're using Tarot in this very, very powerful and empowering way. And I think Terry, like, oh, my goodness, there's so much energy in each of the tarot cards. And when we really connect him with that energy, we can use it to almost like install in ourselves, and then use that energy in many different ways. And the beautiful thing about Tarot is it's all working through imagery and symbolism, which in turn is working on a much more subconscious level. Now, when we're working on our subconscious, we have a lot more power with what we're doing, because it's influencing things on a much deeper level and a much bigger level as well. So firstly, yay for using Tarot as archetypes. And I think you shared a couple of different possibilities or different types of energy and wondering how could we use that kind of?

Unknown Speaker 13:40
Yeah, theme in email in our work?

Kathleen Shannon 13:44
Yes. Okay. So can I give you a few words of like, attitudes that we and our listeners want to cultivate more of? And you could give us a card to study? Yes. Okay. Confidence,

Brigit Esselmont 13:57
totally, totally the strength guard. And so the reason why I love the strength card is and for those of you who may not be, you know, really, really clued on with terror, that's, that's fine. We'll change that eventually. But we're working on. So the strength guard is traditionally this image of this beautiful young lady and she's taming this big lion. And it's often a sign of our like, inner power and our inner strength, and that we can still dominate but we can do that in a way that is not forceful, or you know, trying to be like rah, rah, I'm here or trying to force other people to do things that they may not like to do. So I really feel like this idea of confidence comes through the strength card, because it's kind of this it's very much a feminine power in in, in the sense of, it's coming much more from within versus being through dominance and force. And so for me when I'm thinking about confidence. Yeah, I'd love to, I'd love to have that confidence from that place of inner strength. And I don't have to be out there saying I'm all strong. And I'm in, you know, in power, but it's coming from within and in a really powerful way.

Kathleen Shannon 15:14
And what you were saying about working with the subconscious through images, the strength card is one that recently came up for me that was so powerful. And I don't think about strength, and I don't start attaching words to it, like, I would typically want to even through journaling, for example, which I think is also another really powerful tool. But what I love about the symbolism and imagery is I can just think about looking into the mouth of the lion. And, you know, there was a deck that I pulled strength, and it was almost like she was taming the lion, and like they had this mutual understanding. And that speaks so much more to me and to my inner wisdom than like all the words I could begin to assign to what that means.

Brigit Esselmont 15:58
Yeah, absolutely. And when, again, you know, when we're dealing with that subconscious level, that's the stuff that feeds like our behaviors, our habits, our just our natural responses. So when we deal more with words, mind you, words can sometimes work on a subconscious level as well, but it's a little bit more in the conscious space. And in our conscious mind, we can be filled with things like fears, and anxieties, and ego and all that kind of thing. So operating more at that subconscious level gives you much more breadth and scope, for longer lasting change in your life. And so if you're experiencing maybe not a great amount of confidence, and you want to create more confidence to do that, on that subconscious level is incredibly powerful.

Emily Thompson 16:43
Right? I mean, you can sit and say the word confidence over and over again, and you're not going to feel it. But if you muster the feeling of confidence, you're feeling confidence, I love that that differentiation between the two, and understand why it's so important to really like think about the imagery and why tarot cards are so powerful for this because you're not just reading another affirmation that tells you to be confidence, but it's showing you some images that actually will invoke the feeling of confidence.

Kathleen Shannon 17:12
All right, what about financial abundance?

Brigit Esselmont 17:15
Oh, abundance for me is the Empress. And I mean, mind you, these cards do have a bit of a feminine, feminine side to it. But for me, the Empress is is abundance, and there's so many different parts of the Empress card that represent that abundance. So she is typically pregnant in the card. And that pregnancy is kind of like this dis ready to birth something into this world. And you know, when when you're it's almost like when you're pregnant with ideas, it's as if you're like, completely filled with ideas. The other piece with like the Empress card is, is you know, she's on these beautiful, like, lacks velvet lounge, and it's older, so luxy and gorgeous, right? And there's fruit and there's trees, and she's just she's got everything that she needs in order to therefore birth, what is coming forth from her. So I think even even in the context of financial abundance, I think the Empress is certainly a relevant card. And particularly if you want to do that with a bit more of that sacred feminine energy. So rather, you know, like my natural inclination might be, say, a king of pentacles very much about the business man, or even, you know, the queen of pentacles, which we have earlier on. But there's something lovely and feminine about the Empress that combines that abundance with more of that creativity and fluidity and just all that good stuff.

Kathleen Shannon 18:52
Okay, what about a boss who's looking for more balance, whatever, like, and I'm probably specifically thinking work life balance, because a lot of our bosses are type A driven and becoming really consumed with work, but also really value the home and the life that they want to create.

Brigit Esselmont 19:11
Yeah, I would probably attribute the temperance card to balance. So in the temperance card, we've got this arc Angel, and I think he's got a he's got a foot on the ground a foot in the, in the water. And he is what's not even a Hey, it's actually an androgynous Not, not a Hiroshi Angel. But basically this angel has been able to create this balance between the fluidity of the water and the groundedness of the earth, and is able to do it in a way that is universally connected, as in we're combining both what's happening in our like everyday, everyday life but we're also doing it in connection with our intuition or our subconscious or with the universe and so on. And so I think What I really like about the temperance card, when it comes to balance, it's about things being in moderation. It's about taking that middle path. It's not being an excess in any ways. And so you know, when you think of home and work, where I don't think we ever have perfect balance, and when you keep striving towards where's my, like work life balance, like it's not there doesn't exist. But I think it's more about how do we bring these two aspects into harmony with each other. And you certainly see that in the temperance card.

Emily Thompson 20:33
I love that. I also love that in the toast deck, temperance is art, which every time I think of 10 brands, I always think of the toast deck, and it being art and this idea that that, like, balance creates beauty, or like, and again, balance is not really a thing, but like, I think going after your version of balance, because it's different for everyone will create beauty.

Kathleen Shannon 20:56
And that card in the tooth deck is my favorite, and it's the one I connect with the most. And it also kinda reminds me of the Empress a little bit like it's this. I always think of Queen Bee because this figure is wearing this dress with bees on it I which is also very fascinating. Okay, what about a boss who's winning more creativity. So like, we can easily become consumed by the business side of things and lose touch with the making of the things. So let's say a boss wants to cultivate more creativity, either in their work or in their life or as a hobby. What card Do you think represents that,

Brigit Esselmont 21:34
I would definitely recommend the fool. And the reason I choose the fool is because number one, like the fool is not number one in the deck. But number zero. And the idea of the fool is it's kind of this conception of an idea before it's come into form. And that's how I see creativity is not pushing yourself for it to be something or to do something just yet, but simply playing in the idea of the idea. And playing in that space of the concept and not having to have, you know the structure or knowing how it's all going to come to fruition, but still staying in that creative space. And again, in the imagery of the fall, you have these guys on the edge of a cliff. And he looks like if you took another step, you'd probably fall off that cliff, but he doesn't care. He's just like, I don't care. I'm just I'm exploring, I'm wherever. And I think that's what I really admire in creative people because I'm much more of a structured person. And I like to know how something's going to happen when and all those sorts of details. And what I want to do more of is encouraged myself to let go of some of that structure and just be in that creative, creative space, where I'm not so worried about, oh gosh, if I take this step here, am I gonna fall off the cliff or am I not, but more just embracing what is coming through to you so certainly yet for for creativity.

Kathleen Shannon 22:55
I love that I always think about the magician, but like go figure that I would as a creative entrepreneur, I could use more fool whenever it comes to the more playful side of creativity.

Brigit Esselmont 23:07
So it's interesting contrasting say the four with magician so in the deck, it goes from four to magician. So the fool is kind of again, that concept of the the the concept, the conception of the idea. And then the magician. He's got his tools laid out in front of him. And so he's starting to get ready to manifest. So for me personally, I see magician as like the manifesting energy. And it's taking what the fool has started to conceive. And now the magician says, alright, let's get our tools ready to start bringing this into being. And it's probably for me personally, that's where I like to play in that like, Okay, what are we going through? How do we make it happen? But the fool is just, it's just like, doing something for no reason. That freaks me out.

Unknown Speaker 23:51
with purpose, right?

Emily Thompson 23:53
Right. But if you're going to do it, right, I guess it really does begin with that super like a boundless play because I feel like most of us, especially if you're creative entrepreneurs who are selling your creativity, the idea of going at it with boundless play is even more frightening than someone who is just a creative. So, love the difference there. Okay, so

Kathleen Shannon 24:15
we talked about confidence and strength, but I want a card that is an archetype for the total badass like we're talking. No bullshit. I am just bad ass like the boss.

Emily Thompson 24:36
I just want everyone to see Kathleen's face when she says this stuff though, guys. It's amazing.

Brigit Esselmont 24:44
Yeah, so that should actually just be a badass card in the deck like

Kathleen Shannon 24:51
the badass.

Brigit Esselmont 24:53
But the card that I would probably most aligned with that kind of energy would be the tower card and This, this is one of those cards where you see it, it's it's a big tower, and the lightnings hitting it, it's flames like coming out of the windows, people are jumping out, right. So it's a little bit of chaos.

Kathleen Shannon 25:12
This is the scariest card in the deck. But like

Emily Thompson 25:16
isn't like if you are going to be a total badass, you play by no rules, which means you're breaking all the rules, you are the tower coming in with your little lightning bolt fucking everybody stuff up and saying I don't even care.

Brigit Esselmont 25:29
I've done that. In fact, I remember just a few years ago, I had a reading with another reader who I really respected. And we had one of the positions was what's kind of your spiritual purpose here. And he drew the tower and I'm thinking, Oh my gosh,

Unknown Speaker 25:50
like, how are you gonna wait all the way out of this one. But he?

Brigit Esselmont 25:55
He said to me, Oh, no, this is really good. He's very calm, very calm reader. And he said, No, this is actually very good. This is about you challenging the status quo and refusing to do things, the way that they've always been done, you're here to shake things up. And I thought I can really resonate with that. So I think when we're talking about badassery, it's very much about ready to shake things up and not just accepting something that's that's been built. So the tower is this representation of maybe patriarchal, you know, patriarchal beliefs and structures and so on. And then you might be coming in there going, ah, you know what, we're not gonna do it that way. We're gonna do it a whole different way. And you're there to create chaos and destruction, but not in a really like, Van ballistic? Is that a word? animalistic? Like You I guess now? All right, beautiful. So yeah, so tower is absolutely about shaking things up and challenging the status quo and doing it in a way that is with the highest good in mind. Because again, I think you can, I can create destruction, you see people who just go in to try and stir things up and be destructive, you know, trolls come to mind. Just, you know, people who, who don't really have much care at all. That's not what this is about. This is about going in there with a very clear mission and a very clear connection to the universe. And creating a little bit of staring things up for the greater good,

Emily Thompson 27:39
right? Because whenever whenever you draw the tower card is always like a moment of like, Well, shit, like what is about to hit the fan now. But the thing that you have to remember is that it's always breaking something down so that something better can emerge, or whatever, or whatever that needs to be. And I'm also just going to highlight total pinpoint this for Caitlin, because we know you're listening to this. Our editorial director, Caitlin has a sincere and adorable fear of the tower card. And I love that, I love that you've sort of flipped the switch on it for sure.

Kathleen Shannon 28:13
So I have a question about working with cards that you might feel resistant to you. And so of course, most of the cards that you listed here, have really beautiful imagery, and also that goes deck by deck. But then there are some cards where the imagery I think about is it the seven of swords where it's like the person having a nightmare, or is that nine of swords eight or nine, yeah, nine, so like nine of swords or the tower, and you did a really great podcast on your podcast about cards that are traditionally known as scary and how there's kind of like the light and shadow side to all cards, including the good ones, quote, unquote, but like, what about working with cards that you actually naturally feel resistant to? Do you think that we should try and do more work with those cards? And that we're feeling resistant for a reason? Or is it okay to just leave them alone and let them come up in our, you know, spreads or daily draws as they do? What do you recommend whenever we're having like, a hard time resonating with the imagery or the messages, or it's just straight up confusing? Like I don't even know what to make of this?

Brigit Esselmont 29:20
Yeah, I think there's almost two separate things here. There's those cards that stare up feelings of like, I don't like this card. I don't get it. I don't I don't want to see this in my reading ever. How can I just accidentally tear this card up and never have it? In my deck? Again, it's that admin, and then it's the ones that you know, throw you for a bit of a loop when you've maybe you've asked about love and suddenly getting like all these pentacle cards which are about working Korea. And so firstly for those cards that you feel almost like a disgust towards I think they are very important to pay attention to because oftentimes they are representing age shadow side of yourself. And it's opening you up to, why am I so triggered around this particular card? So for example, I know a lot of people get triggered around the Hierophant. Now the Hierophant is typically associated with things like religion, doctrine rules, and no wonder creative people don't really dive with the Hierophant. But I think in our natural healing process, it can be really helpful to connect in with these cards and say, right, well, what is it about this card that I'm not dealing with? And maybe is there? What's kind of the balancing aspect of that? So again, with the Hierophant, maybe I'm really opposed to this idea that someone's going to tell me how to think, Well, okay, that's very interesting. That's an insight in itself. And then you might think you're what are some of the positive aspects that I feel and sense in this card, and that might be well, sometimes it helps to be given some teachings, and then maybe I can make up my decisions myself. And we know like, the lovers card follows the Hierophant. And the lovers is all about not just love, and all that beautiful stuff, but also about making choices for ourselves. And so we even see this beautiful flow from the Hierophant, to the lovers of, you can be told a particular way of thinking, but ultimately, it's up to you to decide what your values are, and so on. So if you go through this process, let's say with this Hierophant, you're allowing a deeper healing to happen. And you're shining the light on your shadow areas, and then you're looking at ways to take that kind of energy that you're not really dealing with, and convert it into something that's more in alignment with how you operate in your life. So do it. It's uncomfortable, but definitely check in with those cards. I'm so curious, what

Kathleen Shannon 31:48
do you like, what are your I don't like this card at all cards. Kathleen? I don't know like random like two of swords. You know, I don't know why it makes me so uncomfortable. And so this card is a woman who's blindfolded, there's water to her back, and she's holding two swords. And what's funny is that there was one time I pulled this card and that night I dreamed about looking over a beautiful still lake and it totally changed my perspective of that card. So I feel like I did the work I needed to do around it to glean new understandings. But for me, like, you know, probably not even some of the Major Arcana cards, but some of the, you know, like the ones cards in general, like anytime I pull a wand, I'm like, I don't even know what to do with this. And sometimes I think it's just because I'm not a sophisticated reader. But what about you, Emily? Like what cards? Do you pull what you're like, ah,

Emily Thompson 32:45
I honestly can't think of any I don't. And maybe this is just an asshole comment for me. Um, I can't think of any that really, like super rubbed me the wrong way. And even think of like traditional ones that would probably really bother people like, like the devil or the tower or whatever. Like, I don't mind. I don't mind going out those and seeing what's up. I don't think I have any problems. Although maybe that's just me saying I have lots of problems.

Kathleen Shannon 33:13
Okay, I have a question. And I want to get into like using Tarot and business because we certainly all three of us do. But I want to ask you, you know, as we're talking about how we work with cards, sometimes whenever I'm pulling spreads, it feels very intuitive. Like I'm tapping into my intuition, it's helping me see things that I'm not seeing. And then there are other times where it feels like 100% divine message from the universe, right? And just there's no way that that was coincidence. And it changes from reading to reading. And so I'm just curious, your take on that, like, do you ever have readings that feel divine or readings that feel more practical and intuitive? And what do you make of those? Do you ever want to pull a divine reading and you're like, Alright, I guess I'll journal about it like this? Or do they all feel divine? Or is it all the same? Like, let's talk about attitudes, like going into pulling cards with different attitudes or you know, different kinds of reactions to those cards, feeling devices intuitive.

Brigit Esselmont 34:22
I found that when I go into doing a reading for myself, with a very open and curious mind, and a complete willingness to explore all avenues and all issues, I get a really nice clean reading. When I go into a reading and I think Come on, just give me a good card.

Unknown Speaker 34:41
Let's do me then you go like nine of swords. Right? So

Kathleen Shannon 34:48
Oh, yes, exactly.

Brigit Esselmont 34:52
So I think a lot of it does have to do with attitude and how you go into a reading and one way to adjust that. attitude is he going into a reading is just to do a simple meditation. And just clear your mind a few deep breaths, send to yourself focus and then do the reading. And even set an intention for that reading that you are open to all messages that you receive. And look at it, you know, are some readings more divine than others? I think ultimately, like every reading is divine, every moment in time is divine, everything is divine, right? It's as it's whether we are in the right position to be open to that divinity. I suppose he could say, I recall reading I did a couple of months ago, when I had a proposal out and I had had a couple of meetings around that proposal. And I thought the first meeting went really, really well. I was really excited about it. The second meeting was pretty good, too. And the third meeting was, you know, good. And okay. And if I was to say, to put it on a spectrum and go that first then the second and third. Anyway, I thought, okay, I'll just draw some tarot cards around this, draw the tarot cards. And it said, Well, actually, your third meeting was the most productive. The second one was okay, and the first one No, terrible. And I'm like, come on, whatever, That's rubbish. And I literally picked up the cards, I put them away. And then I went on to my Facebook page, I said, right? Hashtag terror confessions, have you ever, like laid out your cards and then whip them away? And then I did it again, same kind of results, right? And then I thought, okay, whatever, the cards are just being a bit silly with me at the moment. And a month later, it all came to fruition, that that third meeting was actually the most productive and most in alignment. And then the first one, I drawn, actually the three of swords, reverse, which for me, was very much about disappointment. And I also had a feeling around contracts might be disappointing. And it's absolutely how it how it happened. So yeah, I think again, it's attitude like, Are we really open to receiving the messages that are in that reading? Whether we like them, or we don't? And do we accept that our intuition knows best, and it's always coming through to us. And even if we don't like it, it like it's there for a reason, if that makes sense.

Kathleen Shannon 37:29
I love that even you Bridget like the master of Tarot does do over spreads. All the time. I'm like, nope, didn't like that one do over. Right,

Emily Thompson 37:40
that was not a vast, right? For sure.

Brigit Esselmont 37:45
It's only human, we're only human. And look, I actually I enjoy having that experience where I draw the cards, and it doesn't line up. And then I've put them away because I think you know what, there's like a million other people who are experiencing that same thing. And this is what it feels like. And then it's fascinating when it turns out, you know, month later that those cards were actually right on. And then it gives me something that I can help others with as well. So learning how to trust your intuition. And you know, intuition can sometimes feel difficult and challenging and uncomfortable. But you've just got to go through it because it's there for a reason. It's trying to guide you in the right in the right direction.

Emily Thompson 38:28
However, in so getting in touch with this intuition pieces, obviously I think why most people pick up their first tarot deck is this idea of like, well, one is kind of fascinating. And like, people get super curious rather than maybe that's not the only reason they pick up their first deck. But the idea of like getting in touch with your intuition and having this tool to help you do it is something that brings a lot of people I think, to Tarot. And it's also something that people want to integrate more into their business. So this idea of having a creative business, that's you when you sell your creativity and wine to like get in touch with your own like, awesomeness to make decisions as opposed to listening to all the things in the world. So I want to talk about using Tarot with your business, because we all do it. And I learned specifically how you use it in yours.

Brigit Esselmont 39:22
Yes, I think using Tarot and intuition in business is like having an extra superpower in your toolkit. And it's something that so many people don't use as well, but can use if they wanted to. So, for me, using intuition in my business just gives me an extra layer and helps me to do things much more quickly and efficiently. Because when I listen to my intuition, it's again, it's showing me the way forward. And if I'm resisting against my intuition, what I find is that things take much longer. They don't happen in the way that they need to. So I might have to go through a bit of discomfort at the start because I'm listening to my intuition. And it's, you know, it might be unpleasant, there might be conflict, I might have to say no to something, I might have to say I don't like this. And, but I know that ultimately, if I'm going through that phase of discomfort, the right outcome, will will come about. So in terms of how do I actually do intuition in Tarot, in my business, for me that the image comes through in so many different ways. When I'm feeling a bit icky, or a bit unsure about something, I will certainly process it at a mental level and use, you know, normal, like normal information to make an assessment. And then of course, I'll pull out my cards, and I'll check in intuitively what's going on here. And often what my cards are doing are helping me to connect into the aspects that I can't necessarily see. Now those aspects I can't see might be happening on a subconscious level. Or it might be more on a big universal level that I'm connecting in with that sort of more universal energy. And so that just gives me those few extra clues to make better decisions about things. I also use Teru. I use Tarot for hiring people. It's probably highly illegal. But when we, when we are hiring, we always draw cards, just to check in Okay, what what might be what might we experience if we have this person on our team? And that often gives us some good insight now, do I hire only on what tarot card they got? Absolutely not. And that's not the idea of this. This is one added layer to a whole range of information. The other things that I like to do is integrate Teru, say, into my monthly and my annual planning. So for example, if I have three potential projects that I could do, I will draw a card for each and just check in around what's my energy, what's my alignment to these projects, and that will help me do some prioritization. And I think last time, we talked a lot about the goal setting, and using Teru to help you set goals that are more in alignment with your highest potential. And when our conscious mind might say, Oh, I think you could get 100 signups for this. Our actual sole potential might be you know what, you're ready for 200. And so our tarot cards can show us Alright, well, what my experience if I made 100 150 200 250 and you get this beautiful soul alignment, that happens, as well. So those are just a handful of different ways that I like to integrate Tarot and intuition into my business, there is a really no end flow in terms of how you can use Tarot in business. It's really up to your creativity, and your intuition to let you know how to do it.

Kathleen Shannon 43:06
Okay, so I have a question. Let's say that I'm using Tarot to plan to do some business planning and I'm pulling a card and like, my gut is telling me Oh, you should take this opportunity. And then the Tarot says otherwise, like, who holds the ultimate authority? Or can I basically spin every tarot card to make sense for like, what I actually want. This is where I start to get real muddy with Tarot, like, Oh my gosh, they're all telling me the same thing, which is like balance or Be careful, but not too careful. Take risks, but not too risky. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like there's always this like, push and pull the Tarot or I could spin it any which way. And sometimes I leave more confused than resolved. Hmm.

Brigit Esselmont 43:50
So in terms of like, who, like, who makes the final decision about what you do, it's always you it's never the card. So if you're like gut feel, is I should go ahead with the project and the tarot card, say you should. And you ultimately feel like you just have to, you have to do this project, then do it, you will probably find that as things progress. Maybe you realize later that maybe it wasn't the best idea. And actually, there was something in that tarot card, but you needed to go through the experience of saying yes, and making the mistake, that makes sense. But it also comes down to intention. So again, if you are very clear in your intention that you are open to all messages and you have a curious mind and you're ready to explore. You may receive different messages from that reading. So you're not going like alright, I really, really want to go ahead with this project. Come on. Tell me tell me Yes. And then you get like, maybe the four of cups where he's turning down the office. He like nah, come on. It's not right. So like, we've got to get ahead in Right space before we do the reading so that we can get that really nice clarity that comes through with it.

Kathleen Shannon 45:06
Yeah, I think that's a piece that sometimes I'm not clear around because like, I'll be going to my Tarot in like a frantic energy or like, Oh, am I doing the right thing. And if I could just chill for a minute, my reading would definitely feel more clear, or I'd be able to bring more clarity to how I interpret it.

Brigit Esselmont 45:24
And like, just remember, you know, when you do a tarot reading, you can, we often think that the tarot reading is when you're sitting down with the cards in front of you, and you interpret what they mean, you think, okay, I interpret them, I get an outside job done, right. But if you're still sitting there with this feeling that I don't really get what these cards mean, or they're not really making sense to me, or I'm not jiving with it. It's different to how I thought I saw the situation, there's an opportunity for you them to go deeper. And so we talked just before about something like journaling. So let's say you had that four of cups come up, when you really wanted to go ahead with a project, what I would suggest to do is take that card and just free write like a stream of consciousness writing non stop, and just see what comes out through your subconscious mind. Because there may be something that you can unlock. Through that writing experience. It just happened recently. Also, with a tarot reading client, I gave her her reading. And initially, she said to me around doing all of this stuff like this doesn't make any sense. And she kept resisting and fighting and fighting over these, like a few days. And then it finally popped. Like about five days later, she wrote back to Sierra, yes, I had this dream. And now Now I get it. Now I can see where this is showing up in my life, I just wasn't quite ready to hear it and I was resisting it. So go beyond just that moment of doing the reading and just let it permeate over several days, or even several weeks or months, because you'll get much more insight when you allow yourself to go much deeper with those cards.

Kathleen Shannon 47:07
Something else I do that you really taught me through your podcasts and just following along on your Instagram and learning more about Tarot is, you know, I'm so inclined to pull the card, go to my phone research what you say on your website about the card or you know, different even for different decks like looking at different sites and reading someone else's interpretation. But sometimes, if I just close the, you know, other people's interpretations, and I really start to connect with the imagery that's on the card and really tap into my own intuition about what that symbolism means to me, I can get so much more of a personal read that is so much more meaningful. But on the flip side of that sometimes I'll you know, be real confused around a card and I might try and read it based on the symbolism. And then I will go to a site like yours, Bridgette and get so much more clarity around Oh, this is something I wasn't really noticing in that symbolism that I definitely need to pay more mine to.

Brigit Esselmont 48:13
Yeah, and I think doing so firstly, what I always recommend is firstly, look at the card and the imagery and trust intuition and call in to see what what comes up for you. Now you might get enough information from that process. Awesome. If not, then yes, go to Billy Taro calm and find out more about the card. Or you know, just like read, like go go to wherever your favorite tarot card meanings are for the tarot.com. So, but the thing that the thing that you've got to really hold yourself to account on is you don't want to go and read five or six books trying to find like, where does the four of cups say yes, I should go ahead with this project, right? Because we're messing it up. Like that's not the idea. The idea is that we're being open and willing to explore all possibilities through these tarot cards. So if you're doing it in a healthy conscious way, then I think it's okay to be looking at meanings. So long as you have checked in with your intuition first and use that that's that's absolutely your first step and then you can check in to see what other people might say about that card.

Kathleen Shannon 49:26
That is super helpful. So I have to tell you, I am so excited because I have been wanting to get so much more intentional around Tarot and just my spirituality and bringing rituals into my daily life as a way to express my spirituality. And Emily and I were just talking about this in the last episode. And right in the nick of time, I got your 2018 Biddy Tarot planner in the mail and I'm so excited about it because, one, it's beautiful. And two, it's really given me the space and guidance to explore Tarot in a really meaningful but also totally structured way. So tell us a little bit about the planner. Yeah, we're

Brigit Esselmont 50:14
super excited about the planner. So I personally I love I love planning it's it's fabulous and I love setting my intentions and creating goals and then figuring out how am I going to manifest those goals. And then of course, I love Tarot. So to have both in the same place, it's really, really exciting. And so that's really why I created this. The military planner is to bring together the best aspects of planning and the best aspects of Taro. Now inside you find things like a manifestation spread that you can use to figure out how you're going to manifest your goals. You've got a new year Tarot spread so that at the beginning of the year, you can look at what's influencing you for the year ahead what some of your biggest lessons might be. And then that kind of filters in throughout the year. And then for every month, what I've done is I've drawn a tarot card not so much as a like a prediction like this is what's going to happen this month, but more as a place to focus your energy and attention. So I'm just let me just quickly flip through. I'm trying to remember what we had for January. So yes, so for example, January is the Emperor and the idea with this is that you just simply focusing on Emperor energy for the month of January kind of really nice and feeding because the Emperor energy is so much about structure and putting in place goals and kind of tapping into more of your masculine energy around taking action and so on. And then there's also a terror ritual that goes alongside that card and that energy that helps you to then embody a little bit more of the energy I'll tell you what, like creating those terror rituals are so much fun. And if you feel brave enough, I'd recommend even creating your own kinds of rituals like alongside the terror it's just a really juicy process to help you get into that energy even more and think okay, well what what sort of things can I do what activities can I do to really embed that energy a lot more. So those are the sorts of things that we've included in this planner to really bring in that concept of Tarot and and planning and also intuition and all of that good, good Juju into your year.

Emily Thompson 52:37
Yes, I have to say as I was flipping through my planner I had one of those moments of this is the planner I always wish I had like I kind of feel like maybe Kathleen and I have even talked about like creating something similar that had like a monthly thing, like a monthly ritual, a monthly intention and a place to like put your card of the day on the things that you can go back and look at it every month to see what sort of common themes were all the things like it, it ended up being the planner that I knew needed needed to be created and I knew I wanted and wanted in my life and I'm so excited to use it because I see so many helpful things in there and like your monthly spreads all the things I cannot wait to use it to guide my year of diving deeper into the Tarot and my own intuition and really feeling feeling the year go by and all the ways so I love it. I think it's beautiful to

Kathleen Shannon 53:37
also I couldn't help but chuckle at the different seasons being labeled quarter one quarter, quarter three and quarter four. Like only Bridgette can really blend Taro and business

Emily Thompson 53:51
in such a clear amazing way. We did have we had a collective chuckle I'm like why is it like winter? Spring? autumn? winter, spring, summer and autumn? No, it's Bridget it has to be quarters.

Unknown Speaker 54:04
don't have it. We couldn't do we couldn't do winter because you guys have winter when we have summer and vice versa. So it would mess with everyone's head See? Oh, that's right.

Emily Thompson 54:15
That is right. That is right. But it also just felt so much more like on brand and like just your personal responsibility to blend Taro and business in such an obvious way. I completely love it. It did not it did not pass by me without noticing for sure. And I'm so glad you created it.

Kathleen Shannon 54:34
And where can our listeners find the planner?

Brigit Esselmont 54:38
Yeah, so it's over at Billy terra.com forward slash tower dash planner, and the CEO we've got it available in both the digital format so if you like you can save it onto your computer, you can type into it, you can save those versions. Or we've also got it available via Amazon as an actual paperback physical planet, of which She's really neat if you'd like writing things and having something in your hands and that sort of thing.

Emily Thompson 55:06
Yes, absolutely. I'm so excited to have that with your ultimate Tarot with the guidebook with your, with your card meanings, because I do, sometimes I do feel like I'm using technology, while I'm reading tarot cards almost like removes me from the magic of reading Tarot. So I'm so glad we have this, like, physical tools from Biddy to help make our Tarot experiences like so much more amazing. I'm excited. And you

Brigit Esselmont 55:38
know, there is something really powerful about actually writing and using your hand to write a script, you know, finger typing. And so that's why, you know, having something like the paperback planner can be really lovely, because you're actually writing and taking time to, you know, put down each letter and so on. There's something quite cathartic about that. And yes, having the Ultimate Guide to tarot card meanings, it's also available on Amazon as a paperback book, which is great, because that gets you off the computer, I spent too long on the computer. So I know, it's nice to have something separate to that. And yes, they can absolutely be used hand in hand. And you can also just trust your intuition and trusting God and have a look at the at your own cards and, and lean into what's unfolding and emerging for you as you look into those tarot cards as well.

Kathleen Shannon 56:28
Okay, so we're about to wrap up. But I was wondering, if just real quickly going into the new year, if you could give our bosses listening, maybe even just a three card spread, that they could try at home.

Unknown Speaker 56:42
Awesome. This is like, this is like trying to get a kid to choose one piece of candy. thinking, oh, wow, I

Unknown Speaker 56:51
could do this, I could do that.

Brigit Esselmont 56:54
And like, before I share the one that I finally landed on, I just want, I want you to know that like, this is the beauty of terror. It's so flexible. And you can create spreads just to fit exactly what is coming up for you. And you know, if you're looking at an opportunity, you can create a spread around that if you're looking at choices that you need to make create a spread around that and so many different avenues. But the one that I've got for you, is this one, let me just double check. All right. So as a creative entrepreneur, I think we've always got like this beautiful flow of ideas and opportunities that are coming through. And we can have a three card reading that would start with what is passing? And the what is passing is kind of like what are you releasing and letting go of? Or even you know, what, what older aspects of yourself? Are you letting go as you sort of start to move forward? So then the second question is what is emerging? And this might be, you know, what new aspects of yourself are emerging? What new opportunities are emerging? Just basically, what's that sort of new energy that you're stepping into? And then the final card is, how can I make the most of what's available to me right now. So I always like to include a bit of an action oriented card. And that third one is very much action oriented. So just to recap, so what is passing? What is emerging? And how can I best use what is available to me

Kathleen Shannon 58:27
right now, I love it, I'm

Brigit Esselmont 58:30
totally going to pull this on to end, you know, this kind of three card spread, could it could be beautiful, even just like on a weekly basis. And, again, it's actually the practice of doing it not even so much what you get out of it, but does the practice of taking 10 minutes out of your usual workweek to tune in and go right what's what how am I feeling? What? What am I sensing on a more energetic level of what's what am i letting go of what's emerging for me? And how can I take action on that? You know, there's just power in just the process alone. And then you've got all the insights that you're getting out of the tarot cards as well.

Emily Thompson 59:05
I love this. I feel like I feel like one of the things that keeps coming up for like us in our interviews and the content we're creating and all of these things is this, this goal of people to be more mindful in their business. So if nothing else, I think that's one of the things that Taro brings most of the table of using it for your business is it forces you to stop and actually consider everything, and especially in a world when you don't usually think you have time to consider anything. And I feel like this is one of those spreads that that really gives you the chance to dive into anything, whether that's a specific problem or a week, every week. Makes you really think about what it is that you're doing and what it is that you're creating so that you can you can make sure it's exactly what you want to be creating. I love it. Good.

Kathleen Shannon 59:55
Yeah. I'm so excited about you know, having the space to Get more disciplined, which is one of my values is discipline. So I know that that word can be heavy, but to get more structure around Tarot and the way that you laid out this planner, like Emily said, I just can't help but reiterate that it is the perfect planner for us, you've got your monthly view, you've got special spreads, you've got rituals, you've got crystals. And then you've got individual cards, like those archetypes that we were talking about earlier that will help you learn Tarot in a new way. So we're so so excited about that, and really just having you on the show always is so energizing. It's always so motivating as a business person and as a spiritual person. So thank you so much for joining us today.

Brigit Esselmont 1:00:44
Thank you, it's my absolute pleasure. I love chatting with you guys. It's it's this is like, this is where I like to play where we intermesh the spiritual and the business. And the practical and the little bit worried it's not gonna be away for much longer, it's gonna be just like, absolutely normal. Right? That is a beautiful goal. I know. Right? Before we go, we

Emily Thompson 1:01:04
have one more question for you. What makes you feel most boss?

Brigit Esselmont 1:01:10
Oh, I think what makes me feel most badass right now is you know what it really is being able to integrate intuition. And now to do it in such a way that I don't feel like it's my like, secret little thing that I do on the side. It's actually one of my defining points of success. And I can now really stand up confidently and say that I run my business intuitively and I think like hell yeah, that's what I do. I'm not gonna it's not something that I have to sort of say, oh, and do some intuition stuff and look into some Tarot stuff on the side. Oh, but I've got like a degree. So yeah, feeling vices being a way to really embrace that intuitive side and really integrate it with the business aspect. And use that in a way that can create huge, huge success. So yeah, that good stuff.

Emily Thompson 1:02:08
I love it. Such a good answer. Thank you so much, Bridget, for coming to hang out with us. As always, I love chatting with you both because you have such a great grasp on Tarot and all the ways that you can use it what it all means, but also because you are one of the most like grounded business women that I know. And it's always it always makes for a super fascinating conversation. Oh, so my pleasure. We have gotten so much amazing feedback over the years from listeners about how our podcast has helped them start to grow and uplevel their businesses. So we want to celebrate you. Here's the boss we're celebrating this week.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:48
Hi, my name is Nikolas and I'm being bossed I'm a massage therapist and owner of massage Movil, a mobile massage practice in San Antonio, Texas. You can find more information at www dot massage. Oh v as in Victor I l.com and please don't judge my website you creative. I'm currently in the process of reworking it. So this week, I'm celebrating how awesome My business is doing this month, I left my full time corporate job I used to work in a massage franchise in their corporate office as their training and development manager. And I took my one woman massage practice from part time to full time in October of this year. And I had the intention of increasing sales about 10 to 15% each month which is you know fairly standard in the massage franchising world. But I've increased my sales consistently about 40 to 60% these past few months and let me tell you December has been extremely good to me. You know, I'm just so pleasantly surprised and extremely grateful to all of my clients because you know, I know that I've now made you know the best decision possible for me so yay, I'm so excited. All right, thank you all right.

Kathleen Shannon 1:04:08
If you're feeling boss and want to submit your own boss moment or win go to WWW dot being boss clubs slash I am being boss. This episode of being boss was brought to you by fresh books, cloud accounting, thank you to fresh books for sponsoring us and you guys can try it for free by going to freshbooks comm slash being boss. Thank you so much to our team and sponsors who make being boss possible our sound engineer and web developer Corey winter. Our editorial director and content manager Caitlin brain, our community manager and social media director Sharon lukey. And are being countered David Austin, with support from braid creative and nd shop

Emily Thompson 1:04:46
biography. Do the work for you boss, and we'll see you next week.