Kathleen Shannon 0:01
Hello and welcome to being boss,
Emily Thompson 0:04
a podcast for creative entrepreneurs.
Unknown Speaker 0:06
Emily Thompson 0:07
Kathleen Shannon 0:08
And I'm Kathleen Shannon. I am Andrea Irwin and I am being boss. Hey bosses. Today we're talking about intuition, the fear of success and habits that are holding you back with author, mentor and coach Andrea Owen. As always, you can find all the tools, books and links we reference on the show notes at being boss club. As a creative entrepreneur, running your own business or thinking about starting one do me a quick favor. As I mentioned the words admin and paperwork, take note of all of those unsavory thoughts and feelings that bubble up to the surface. Because at worst, the prospect of dealing with endless paperwork can kill your motivation altogether. And at best, it's just a time sucking pain in the butt. So our friends at freshbooks know this and they can help you in a big way. freshbooks makes ridiculously easy cloud accounting software that's perfect for creatives who need to spend more time creating and less of their time buried in paperwork, you can create invoices in seconds. With two clicks, you can set yourself up to receive payments online. If your clients forget to pay you freshbooks Well, they're gonna handle the awkwardness with customizable late payment reminders. And freshbooks can even show you whether or not a client has looked at the invoice you've emailed. So truthfully, this is only a tiny fraction of what freshbooks can do to really change how you feel about dealing with your paperwork. to claim your unrestricted 30 day free trial. Go to freshbooks.com slash being boss and enter being boss in the How did you hear about us section?
Alright, we've got a great guest for you all today. Andrea Owen is an author, mentor and certified life coach who helps high achieving women let go of perfectionism, control and isolation and choosing courage and confidence. Instead, she has helped 1000s of women manage their inner critic to create loving connections and live their most kick ass life. She is the author of 52 ways to live a kick ass life. And her second book, How to stop feeling like shit 14 habits that are holding you back from happiness is now out. All right on to the interview. Andrea, thank you so much for joining us on being bossed today. Thank you for having me. All right before we really dig in, did you play roller derby? I did. I did. about going back? You did? Yeah. I retired in 2013. Let me head injury. I mean, who doesn't have an injury playing roller derby and
Andrea Owen 2:43
I wish that it was a roller derby injury but I slipped on some ice walking out of the gym and totally tore my shoulder. My labor I'm completely off. So I wish it was a really exciting Derby story, but it's not.
Kathleen Shannon 2:57
I think I played 10 years ago I only played for two years and it was just at the beginning of the flat track resurgence Did you play flat track? I played flat track what was your Derby name? catatonic. 3000. What was your Veronica vein? Nice. What position did you play?
Andrea Owen 3:15
I was a blocker. I was way too slow to be a jammer and too scared. It is scary. It was enough to be a blocker. And it was never a pivot. I just Yeah, but my favorite. My favorite all time Derby name was not on my team of the Colorado team and her name was moustache writer.
Emily Thompson 3:36
Kathleen Shannon 3:40
Okay, so, dear listeners, we have a couple of Derby girls here. Now, you know. In fact, I was just telling someone the other day Emily, you might not even know this. The first time I'd ever had a shot of alcohol was whenever I was. In my Derby days, we were having a pool party. And I took a shot of tequila and then someone like pushed my head underwater. And that's how I took my first shot. And it was like very like Derby. Very Derby time. Okay, Andrea, let's let's get on track here. Pun intended or unintended. That was unintended. I'm not a very punny person. Um, okay, so tell us a little bit about yourself and your history. I know that you have quite a story.
Andrea Owen 4:29
I do I do. I Well, it's it's kind of a funny, funny story. Because way back in 2003 I think it was I heard about the career of life coaching. I saw it online and I thought this is the coolest thing ever, you know, to be a life coach like you get you get to help people live their their best life and who doesn't want to do that? Because I thought about being a therapist. It just didn't feel totally right. But this was so awesome. And I remember telling my husband at the time we just gotten married. We've been he and I had been together since we were Teenagers. And I told him, I said, this seems really neat. But I don't think that I would be very good at this because I think somebody who's a life coach would need to have a lot of interesting life experience. And I kind of didn't. And so fast forward a few years, he and I had been married for a couple of years. At that point, we'd been together for about 13 years, we were talking about conceiving our first child, as many people do in that situation. And he had an affair with our neighbor and got her pregnant. And it was gnarly.
Kathleen Shannon 5:34
just shaking our heads.
Andrea Owen 5:37
It was one of those. I was very close to his family to my parents who've gotten divorced when right around the time I had met him and his parents and his family just completely took me in. And he had a lot of siblings and their wives and everything. And it was rough. That whole breakup was really rough for everyone. And, and it was I mean, the whole story, I'm going to write a memoir, because it the whole thing. It's like a Lifetime movie. And anytime anybody hears the whole story, they're like, this is like a Lifetime movie. And what ended up happening right after that was something I should not have done. And I started dating right away, it was like one of my girlfriend's idea. She's like, let's get you a match.com profile.
Kathleen Shannon 6:14
That'll make you feel better.
Andrea Owen 6:17
So I did. And I actually dated a handful of nice normal guys. And, of course, they didn't want anything to do with them. And I attracted this, this guy, whom I thought at the time was Mr. Right. And he was tall and funny. And he looked like David's a company, and I was with him for about 10 months. And it kinda, there were some major red flags, but I ignored all of them. And long story short with that relationship is that he had lied the whole time about having cancer, about having non Hodgkins lymphoma, in order to cover up his opioid addiction. And he had conned me out of $1,000, which was like all the money I had. And he talked to me until leaving my job and my apartment because we were going to move away and live together. And it came all out. I confronted him about the drug addiction, and he actually got clean for a few weeks. And then that's when I got pregnant. And then he started using again, he went away to rehab and I thought that I was gonna give him another chance because I was pregnant and I didn't know anything really about addiction. I had never been with an addict. You know, anyone that's listening who's been in a relationship with an addict is probably like, yeah, it's it's not the easiest thing to do. But I really thought that we he could get clean and sober. And we could move away to Northern California and live happily ever after. He met someone else in rehab and broke up with me. And it turns out, she had a trust fund and, like, had loan to it was it I got conned, basically, by this man. And I was pregnant. And you know, be careful what you wish for. Here's my life experience. I was on the ground. And my divorce wasn't even final from my husband. I was still dealing with that. Having this breakup, I was pregnant, I had gotten out of the lease of my apartment, my job that I had quit, they'd already filled my position. So I was like, What the fuck do I do? And I was it was one of those on the ground in the fetal position. I was crying on the phone with my sister. And I was like, how did I get here? Like what happened? And I was 31 at the time. So it was like, right, whenever all my friends were like, pregnant, married, and even they were like, We don't even know what to say to you. It's so bad. It's so bad. And it was just humiliating and and I picked myself up off the ground, you know, a couple days later, and really was just like, okay, the common denominator and all this shit is me. And not to say that those guys didn't do some really crappy things to me, they did. But I had tolerated all of that I had never listened to my intuition. My intuition told me not to marry my first husband. And I did anyway, my intuition told me from the first date with David Duke 78, cancer to run and I didn't. So it was all these things, I was starting to realize that I needed to take responsibility for in my life, I slowly started to do and I dove into self help and personal development. And that was in 2007, when all of that fell apart in early 2007. So it's been quite a ride in just in my own work. I'm a completely different person, but I'm so grateful for that time because I needed that like shake by their shoulders to wake up.
Kathleen Shannon 9:15
It's funny because we hear a lot of life coaches say I feel like I need to have my entire act together like my life needs to be perfect before I can coach anybody else. And here you are saying my life needs to be more interesting. So there you go. So then what did you you know, get it go into life coaching like how did your creative entrepreneur adventure kind of come out of all of this?
Andrea Owen 9:43
You know, it's interesting. I was what I call like an accidental entrepreneur. I was not that kid had to had a lemonade stand. I hated selling Girl Scout cookies. I just wasn't I don't think I was ever really good at it. And my parents worked you know, they had like union jobs. So that's what I always thought I would do. And I was interested, I honest to goodness think I was interested in life coaching too is because I wanted to help other people, but I was too afraid to look at my own stuff. And when if you've been in kind of an intense training like that anyone listening knows that that's impossible. Like you can't go through a training like that without looking at your own stuff. And what they what they tell us, they capital T, whoever they are, they tell us you can't ever take your clients farther than what how far you're willing to go in your own life. So I had kind of a rude awakening. When I walked into training in 2007. I went that same year. And then after my first weekend, it was with the coach Training Institute, I took an entire year off because I was like, This is too intense. I need to work on my own stuff. I was also pregnant. and use that as an excuse, but mostly I was I was doing my own work. And, and and yeah, so it was it was I'm not gonna say like, Oh, yeah, I was all great and dandy. When I went into training, it was sort of a simultaneous training to work to work with other people. And then myself.
Kathleen Shannon 11:04
I think one thing that I'm admiring about you even just at the beginning of this conversation, is this taking personal accountability and looking at the common denominator, and I try and do that for myself. Anytime I start to feel like I'm attracting the worst kind of luck or, you know, that things like why isn't anything going right? And it's like, Okay, well, what's the common denominator here? And I think that taking that personal accountability and responsibility for that is huge. So how do you get to the other side of that, like, what do you do once you say, Okay, I'm the common denominator. Now what? Yeah, and
Andrea Owen 11:41
what's tricky about that is that I see a lot of people put a lot of blame on themselves. And I think that that's it's a it's a fine line between taking responsibility for what you need to own as yours and what's your shit? And then also beating yourself up for it. Oh, my gosh, I
Kathleen Shannon 11:57
went through this. Do you? Are you familiar with Byron Katie's work? Yes. Okay. It's brilliant yet. I'm not a huge fan. I went to the darkest place after I had my baby. And I was like, Okay, I feel like shit. But what? How is this, you know, my fault. Like, I think that it can take you to that place of just like feeling really bad and feeling like it's all your fault. But anyway, that's kind of Reisman out with that. And I think especially if you're not doing it under the guidance of someone who's super trained like if Byron Katie herself for walking me through this, I'd be like, Oh, yes, genius. Whenever I'm in like, the middle of the night, staring at my ceiling, trying to figure it out. I'm like, I'm just the worst. Everything's the worst. Okay, so as you're in this, going, keep going.
Andrea Owen 12:42
No, it's I I'm glad that you brought that up. Because I agree. I think that it is the the questions are genius. But if, but you can especially I'm sure the people that listen to your podcast and your community and my community as well. They are high achievers, they're go getters, and they tend to put so much responsibility on themselves. They blame themselves a lot and fall into that. That whole inner critic chatter and and beat themselves up. But no, there there is kind of like that. And sometimes I feel like it's like a ping pong back and forth into taking responsibility and like, hey, what can I own? What's mine? Oh my god, what have I done? Why am I so stupid? going back and forth. So just I'm all for massive self awareness. Just knowing as best you can, what's going on, so that you can try to choose better solutions or a better way?
Kathleen Shannon 13:28
Emily, how are you doing over there?
Emily Thompson 13:31
I'm soaking it all in guys done. From my story. I'm formulating all of it into something amazing in a minute, but I'm just gonna keep soaking it you guys continue?
Kathleen Shannon 13:42
I will say like, anytime I'm feeling sorry for myself, Emily's my business bestie and I'll be like, oh man, and she's like a buck up
Emily Thompson 13:51
and get to work.
Kathleen Shannon 13:53
Like the backup voice of all of this. She's like, oh, Byron Hill. Okay, so I want to talk a little bit though about you know, our audiences, creative entrepreneurs, and we have found more and more of them are dealing with anxiety there is such a huge conversation happening around anxiety. And you have a book right now called stop feeling like shit 14 habits that are holding you back from happiness. And if I could like almost inverse that title to like, 14 habits that are giving you anxiety, I mean, that might not be it at all, but you know, just this like shitty feeling. Why does everyone feel like shit all the time? Is it social media? Is it politics? Is it perfectionism? Is it workaholism, like what is making creative entrepreneurs specifically, feel so terrible all the time?
Andrea Owen 14:43
Everything that you mentioned, Kathleen, I think that yeah, I mean, you could switch the title out 14 things that are causing you anxiety because the the behaviors are and I'll just name a few of them. It's perfectionism. It's the people pleasing it's compare and despair. Um overachieving being strong. What else self sabotage, feeling like a fraud, all of those all of those things. And I think that I think that you, I know that your audience is this way too, we are such smart, high achieving people, we put so much pressure on ourselves. And couple which I don't think it's a bad thing to be high achieving, like I wanted to get that out of the way I am, too. But where I see it kind of go over to the dark side is, we tend to be terrible at asking for help. We tend to also be terrible directly related to that is when shit hits the fan in our life, whether it's with our business, our finances, our personal relationships, parenting, etc. We tend to not reach out to tell people, even the people we're closest to the really hard stuff, because we're embarrassed. We think nobody else feels that way. We feel like we need to be able to handle it all. Courtney Martin wrote the book, perfect girl serving daughters, and I quote her and my perfectionism chapter and, and one of the things she she her theory is that it's it's sort of a backlash, and she's a she's a huge feminist. She's like, it's a backlash from the feminist movement that told us, we could be anything, and we heard we have to be everything. And I definitely think that's the case and I meet you, I'm seeing so much anxiety rising and rising and rising. And just to bottom line it, I think we're not asking for help, I think we're putting expectations on ourselves and others that are completely Can't nobody, nobody humanly can do all of these things. And we're also numbing our feelings. That's another huge one. Because when we don't actually process what's going on, it just gets like stock piled down and down and down. And then that manifests as insomnia, anxiety, for some people depression, not to say depression and anxiety aren't real, you know, things that happen in the brain. But it just exacerbates that physical symptoms. I mean, I could go on and on, I'll stop because
Kathleen Shannon 17:01
anxiety, sometimes I feel like in my own experiences of anxiety, and in all the bad feelings, like the habits that are keeping me from feeling my best self, sometimes it's hard to even recognize when that's happening, it's kind of like the frog in boiling water. And I don't really know it's creeping up until it's too late. And so sometimes I like to keep an eye on my symptoms that are coming up. So sometimes if I feel the urge to really get strict about like a workout regimen and what I'm eating, and I'm like, I need to do a whole 30 I'm like, not that a whole 30 is at all a symptom of a problem. But for me personally, that's whenever, whenever that stuff is rearing its, you know, I start to think, Okay, wait, what's actually going on? Or if I'm like, I'm gonna go on a shopping binge. Like, that's another one. Okay, what's actually going on? You're trying to gain some semblance of control in my career. Sure. And so I have to look at like, kind of those sneaky symptoms that are giving me clues that I'm about to fall into, like the shit quicksand. So do you have any sneaky symptoms that you're identifying, and really, maybe even some of these habits that are holding you back like these actual behaviors to really identify when you're starting to get into hot water?
Andrea Owen 18:20
I think that the examples that you gave are really great. I think that anytime you're trying to grasp or some kind of control and it might look like some kind of diet some mine is the same like all sign up for like a triathlon or something and then feel good for five minutes when I put all of my training and my Google Calendar, and then I like why do I still feel
Kathleen Shannon 18:42
to clarify that like a whole 30 isn't a bad thing and a triathlon isn't a bad thing, like these aren't bad things that we're doing but I found that I'm so much more successful whenever I'm doing those things out of love for myself versus like, out of hate for myself.
Andrea Owen 18:55
Right. Right. And and I agree with you and I think that So your question was about his symptoms. I think that some for some people it's physical symptoms. I know for me that and personally I was diagnosed with general anxiety disorder and severe panic disorder in 2003. And I am I mean, God that story i was i was both relieved and enraged at the same time I felt like my body had failed me I had I start a lot of stigma around you know, mental illness and things like that but I understand exactly what it feels like to have like a full on panic attack with vomiting and like, you know, tingling hands and numbness and everything and or just the general anxiety. And for me, it's it's physical. I feel like I get tightness all up in my shoulders and I also feel sometimes nauseated and just anxious for no apparent reason at all. Like I don't have a huge deadline. I don't have a giant to do list. My kids are healthy. My my husband's not mad at me. Just For no reason, that's one symptom. And I think that sometimes, like you were saying, it can be sneaky. For me personally, and I think everyone's red flags are different. I've been sober for six years. So I know when I think about drinking, that's a red flag for me, something's going on. Or if I'm lashing out at somebody that doesn't deserve it, that's also a red flag of anxiety. And I think about also how much cavities or small things I think my how much caffeine I'm consuming, I'm getting enough sleep if I'm exercising, what I'm eating, those are all kind of the things we all hear about all the time, like the no brainers about anxiety. But I think they're, they're worth mentioning because we get busy and forget about those important things.
Kathleen Shannon 20:42
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Andrea Owen 21:45
perfectionism so for for your community, what that might look like is not completing projects or not even starting projects, because they think that they aren't perfect at it or or most excellent at it, or they're going down. You know, I I love to compare and despair into its own chapter. But definitely perfectionism compare, and despair and control are like sisters. And it might also look like, excuse me, it might look like not going out with your friends because you are having a breakout, or you I don't know how bad hair day mean, it can be just the regular things like that, that make you isolate. Because you make up that you're not perfect. People pleasing and approval seeking is anything from saying yes to things you really don't want to do. Poor boundary setting. And that might be with your clients, you know, letting people take advantage or bend on policies that you have in place that you just don't want to say yes to, or you know that you don't want to say no to and what was the third one that you want me to talk about?
Kathleen Shannon 22:48
Ooh, feeling like a fraud. That's when
Andrea Owen 22:52
feelings over feelings. Yes, I know you wrote about it in your new in your book. That one is, for my audience it is. I work with a lot of nine to fivers and feeling like they that feeling like when is everybody going to figure out that I have no idea what I'm doing. Or just really feeling like you don't belong. And then I need to have another degree I need to have another certification. And you keep kind of pressing this this news button on your life because you you need more schooling and things like that. And just feeling like you don't measure up. I really blah, blah, shutting. startled.
Emily Thompson 23:35
I want to talk a second about all of those things you just said like all those like symptoms or like the habits that come from them. And how it is that you differentiate between when between when like, let's say you actually do need to go get more certification or whatever for a reason that is good. Versus it being a being a habit that's rearing its head out of something that's more negative, like how can you tell the difference between the two and any of those scenarios? Because I think there are tons of times when these things will surface as you know, a positive indication of something versus a negative one.
Andrea Owen 24:14
And it's tough, you know, I wish I could drop like a handy dandy table and say like, this is when it's this and this is when it's that. And I think that it might vary for each person and an indicator i think is I think a lot of people know, deep down. I think they know and they're too afraid to admit it. I think people are a lot smarter than you really think they are. And I also it might be even helpful to ask some of your closest friends, you know, like, what do you think do you really think because most likely, if they are somebody that you trust, and you have an established relationship with, they're going to tell you the truth. And I mean, I got I got my original certification in 2010 she doesn't it doesn't 10 and then I thought about going and getting a PhD, I didn't even I don't even have my master's degree yet. So it would have been a lot of school. And I'd like two kids at home. After really thinking about it, I was like, No, I don't I want to be I want it because I want those letters after my name. And for me that went into, like, my core belief of like, I don't think people take me that seriously. And that's why I wanted a PhD. But then I went on in 2014, to get another certification that I really deeply resonated with and wanted the education. So for me, that was the distinction. I'm not sure how helpful that is. But I just I honest to goodness, think that people know deep down, they're just afraid of looking right.
Emily Thompson 25:32
So that that brings up for me, like just this idea of self awareness, like you can want things for right and wrong reasons is the same things, just the reasons that are different. And I think, I think knowing yourself, and like questioning yourself as part of that, but I also love the idea of asking those closest to you, because sometimes they have a perspective that you just can't see.
Andrea Owen 25:52
And sometimes they don't want to tell you because there will be a you haven't asked. And they might be kind of afraid of hurting your feelings. I mean, we have such poor communication in this culture. But you know, maybe they don't want to say like, hey, Emily, like, I actually don't know, if you need that certification, you have 17 already, you know, they don't wanna hurt your feelings, because they genuinely love you and care about you. I think
Kathleen Shannon 26:12
that that deep down piece is really important as well. And one of the things that you mentioned earlier, Andrea, is that you were ignoring your intuition that you knew was there. And for me, that distinction between doing something because my intuition is telling me that I need it, versus my intuition telling me like, actually, you're good without it. That's huge for me, as well. So I'm curious if you have any tools or tips for really tapping into your intuition, or if you've been able to listen to your intuition a little bit better, since those red flag experiences and how you've been able to cultivate that and really do that.
Andrea Owen 26:50
I wish that I could say it, my intuition was strengthened by a really amazing meditation and yoga practice. But really how it was strengthened was by not listening and getting hit over the head with a two by four. And and I think that sometimes we need those really hard lessons I like I was saying, I'm so glad I thanked my ex husband and my first book in the acknowledgments, because I might still be married to him today if he hadn't had an affair. And I do believe that it was the catalyst. I think some people just need to get the emotional shit kicked out of them before they change their life. Not everyone, but but a lot of people. And I think that we do get to a certain point where that may happen. And I also think that yoga and meditation and just being still in quiet, can help. And I also think that we kind of do need to go down that road of, of not listening to know exactly like, Oh, that was my intuition. And it actually was right, so that we can start to trust it. Because I think self trust is a huge issue, especially for women. And I mean, I shouldn't say especially for women, I don't work with men, so I don't know if they have problems with stress or makeup that they don't. But I also think that, you know, intuition is one of those lifelong process journeys that we take, and that we hugely underestimate how powerful it is in us. I personally feel like I've only tapped into like 25% of my own. And I'll be completely transparent with you. There's a tiny part of me, that's a little afraid, that I might find. Because it's so powerful. I don't know if I'm the only one
Emily Thompson 28:27
saying more about that. We're gonna do a live coaching session are right here, right now, let's talk about your fear of your own intuition.
Unknown Speaker 28:38
No, well, it
Andrea Owen 28:38
kind of it brings up the whole topic of the fear of success. And it and that's it's indirectly related to what we were trying, I'm not trying to change the subject. I'm happy to go there. But I do think that it's something that your audience probably struggles with. Everybody's always talking about the fear of failure. And it's kind of like, to me, that's old hat. Like, let's talk about the fear of success. Because I have talked to so many women who are like, Oh my God, that's what I'm afraid of. And I'm kind of afraid to admit it. Because it seems dumb, right? But I found myself in so many women, it's like, Okay, how am I going to sustain this? If I if I do make six figures? How am I going to stay in that multiple six figures, seven figures? How am I going to top it? What are people gonna think of me? Am I going to leave my family behind and people that I grew up with? There's, there's so much drama that we make up about success.
Emily Thompson 29:27
Yeah, yeah, it's I think Kathleen and I have talked about multiple times, probably a little more behind the scenes and even on the podcast where there is so many things that can come up for you, just as many in terms of fearing success than failure. But I have to say, I think fearing my intuition is an aspect of that that I have not considered yet.
Andrea Owen 29:52
How it came up for me was I was I was getting coached as we do. And I forget how even the topic came up, but my coach asked me or maybe she pointed out, I can't remember she asked her if she pointed it out that, that I she's like, I think that you're afraid of your own intuition because you're afraid of what you might uncover there. And it's sort of like the Marianne Williamson quote, you know, we're afraid of how big we can become in our own power. And, excuse me, I believe that very much to be true. And, and let's get a little bit esoteric here. I I truly believe and have known since I was probably 10 or 11, that my soul has walked this earth before in some other form. And I truly believe that there has been some kind of past life where our lives where it's been some kind of female form that lived in a time where like, let's face it, like most of the past lives, where women were not allowed to speak out, they were persecuted for it or, or killed many times. And I had my akashic records open one time, have you guys ever heard of that or heard of it?
Kathleen Shannon 31:03
speaking to the right PDA, yeah,
Emily Thompson 31:04
you keep going, stay
Kathleen Shannon 31:06
calm and waiting for something.
Emily Thompson 31:09
You're not gonna get the negative ones from us keep going. We're interested. Okay. So I
Andrea Owen 31:13
have my akashic records opened. And she, and you know, like, it's, it's so well, and even at the time, I was like, Oh, my gosh, I can't believe I'm doing this. So she there was like, some silence. And she's like, asking the guides, you know, like, I don't know, like sage and everything over on her end. And then she gasped, and she was like, the guides are telling me they've been waiting for this lifetime for a very, very long time. And I was like, No pressure.
Kathleen Shannon 31:40
Immediately, that's where I went.
Andrea Owen 31:41
I was like, Oh, my God, what am I supposed to be doing? But I learned to accept that and it's all fine now. But still, there's a part of me like every time I up level, I'm met with I don't know who coined it, but new level new devil, I'm met with like, oh, who do you think you are? And that's cute, that you think you can be that big, that you can be that loud that you can take up that much space? And this goes back to I mean, it's the patriarchy, it's just us as women, culturally, we're not encouraged really to do that. I mean, I've been told many, many times to tone it down. You know, you're making other people uncomfortable. And I have I learned for a long time to do that. And I'm fucking 42. And now I'm finally just like, No, I'm done with this. And every time I do something, like I read a spoken word on my podcast, a few weeks ago, it was titled my resignation. And it's like, a powerful that the poem was written, when the me to movement was happening. And I wrote that poem out of in a place of rage. And I performed it and like my whole, I burst into tears after I read it, I was so thought I, I'm surprised I didn't throw up. But it's, it's that kind of like physical just coming out. It's like this rebirth. And I'm getting all like hot, and I should take my sweater off. But all that to say is that it's this up leveling, I think that so many of us face it, when we do listen to our intuition, when our intuition is saying, like, pushing us and saying, like, go girl, go, go be a boss, go do all of these things that our culture tells us not to do scary shit. And you know, there's so many people online that are making it look so easy. And I'm over here like,
Kathleen Shannon 33:30
yeah, totally, I was thinking about, you know, the fear of success. And as far as that relates to intuition, which is something that I haven't really connected before, either. So just even thinking through this, I was thinking, if I was afraid of success, and how my intuition plays into that fear a little bit, it would be that my intuition is going to say, do it a different way. And that I'm going to have to pave my own path, I'm going to have to pave my own way and do it in a way that hasn't been done before.
Emily Thompson 34:00
And do it in a way that feels good every step of the way. So that it's like not cultivating that continuing of fear.
Kathleen Shannon 34:07
Yeah. And I think that that, like, you know, even I don't know, if this is society or weapons learners, I feel like I want to just hitch my cart to somebody's horse, whether that be my husband's, or whether that be like the next guru promising me the answers or, you know, whoever that might be like, I think that we're all sometimes like, just someone give me the answers, please. But whenever you listen to your intuition, it has all the answers that you need. And that's kind of scary because sometimes it's going to tell you, hey, you're gonna have to go down this path that you can't see around the bend of, but trust that it's going to get you where you need to go. Even if it's a bumpy ride along the way. It's going to get you where you need to go, and that you're going to have to go against the norms when you go down that path.
Andrea Owen 34:56
And people are gonna judge you and people are like, what are you doing? Where are you doing it? That way and I'm like one of one of the huge moments of my life when I did trust my intuition and people were like, what are you doing? When I was pregnant with my second child? I had a Syrian with my first he was a, he was a breech position, baby. And for people who understand him sector at all in America, they would rather you not have a vaginal birth after surgery. And it's called a VBAC. And this was in 2000. When did I give birth a second, this is in 2009. So they've come they've come a little bit of a way now, but my obstetrician was heavily recommending, because I'm a liability. You know, it's so much easier for them if they can control it and have another Syrian. I would take a bath every single night, and I'm very pregnant. And I remember just knowing and I could not explain it knowing that my daughter was fine, that we were fine. my uterus and my body were healthy. And they were telling me that she's too small for gestational age that my placenta is starting to calcify, like which things were those weren't totally normal things. They were trying to scare me. And I just knew it all. Like, I just knew that we were going to be fine. And then even my husband was like, are you sure you want to try this? Like when it would just be better if and then I was like, Oh, my God, all I was getting all this pushback, all this pushback, and I had the easiest, fastest labor, she was totally fine and healthy. And it was I look on that moment of that is my evidence that I can trust myself, even when, when you can't explain what that feeling is and what that voice is. And you can even use that in your business. And I think we second guess ourselves, I second guessed myself, like 1000 times during that pregnancy. And it wasn't until they were setting up the room to do a vaginal birth in the hospital. I was like, Oh my God. Oh, my God, this is like, you guys believe to me. And yeah, just an example of, of trusting and and it was a that was a big deal. There was a lot at stake for that.
Kathleen Shannon 36:55
Yeah, I think what I'm gathering out of this is to look at experiences where you went against your intuition. Think about when you had that gut feeling that this is not the right choice and went against that. And even in my life, like I have been married a couple of times. And in my first marriage, like, I never had that gut feeling like Don't do it. Don't do it. You don't you don't or like you know, I've even had my intuition tell me to do something that then totally crashed. And I'm like, but my intuition told me so strongly. And that can make you second guess. But then there are certainly times where my intuition has told me to do things that I've done that have felt wild or weird. And that's like, where I really see my evidence is whenever I followed, like, I've gotten that loud, clear signal, I followed it, and it worked out for the best. And so I would love to encourage our listeners to think about that as well. Okay, bosses, this is the kind of things that I don't normally do, but I got a fabfitfun box in the mail. And I loved it. So if you don't already know about fabfitfun, it's a seasonal box with full size, beauty, fitness and lifestyle products. Their spring editor's box is epic. It has products like a free people eyemask beauty and skincare products from Kate Somerville, which is my personal favorite, and tart, which is another favorite, a super cute mug by ayesha curry. And that's just the beginning of it. Don't miss out because they sell out fast. Check out www dot fabfitfun calm and use the code boss. So you can save $10 off your first box, making it only 3999 you all that is such a steal. Again, that's fabfitfun calm and use the code boss with how hard you work as a creative entrepreneur, you deserve to treat yourself. I want to talk about choosing the way that we feel. So like if we're feeling like shit all the time. And there are all these habits that are holding us back. Can we actually choose courage and confidence and happiness? Like is it really a choice because even this morning, my son was having a meltdown. I'm going to admit that like I even hit the wall with my fist a little bit around the corner like I was so just why another meltdown. And I was like, okay, Kathleen, you've got to choose, you've got to choose how you're going to be and you're going to be the grown up and you're going to be happy and I just couldn't. So I'm over it now I feel pretty happy now. But do you really think that it's a choice? And how do we really harness that choice?
Andrea Owen 39:36
I don't know. I think you asked like 10 different self help people and you're gonna get 10 different answers. My answer is that I think that there comes a time when we have experiences that drive our emotions. When our four year old is having a meltdown. We're going to be frustrated, even if it's for a short period of time. I do think that we have a choice when we are going to overstay How long we need to be in that? And that comes with, you know, how long do you want to tell, like, for instance, when I, when my ex husband had an affair, and all of that went down, I got to a point where, of course, it was devastating, you know, but then I got to a point where I was choosing to stay in victimhood, I was choosing to stay bitter, I was choosing to tell the story from a place of victimhood, so that I could get attention so that I could get sympathy. And again, I think that there comes a it's like a container, almost like There comes a time where it is possible for you to move on, and then we choose to stay in it or not.
Emily Thompson 40:36
Yeah, I think I think there's something to be said about allowing yourself the time to feel the feelings, whatever they may be. And then and then when you're done feeling the feelings because there has to be a moment, then you choose. But I think I don't think you can choose too early. I think you can choose too late.
Andrea Owen 40:55
I agree with that, Emily. And I think too, that I'm a big fan of encouraging and preaching to people that none of your feelings are wrong. That's that's one lesson I want my children to walk away with. I didn't grow up in a house like that. And you're going to feel whatever you feel if you start to pay attention to how much especially women apologize for their feelings, how we apologize all the time for crying. And your feelings are just feelings, they're just part of the human experience. Like just, they just are, that's been a huge part of my own work is just accepting what comes and not making myself wrong for it.
Kathleen Shannon 41:34
Sorry, I'm just thinking about my son feeling his feelings. And that's fine. But I don't want to see it. I don't want to get audience to it. I don't want to witness it.
Emily Thompson 41:45
Well, I think there is something to be said about learning how to express your feelings, I don't think it's right for you, I think there is a wrong way for you to express your feelings. Even if the feeling is right, you can express them in a wrong way. Just throwing that out.
Andrea Owen 42:00
That's what I teach my children, I always say, and they're 10 and eight, by the way. So I tell them, You are never wrong for feeling your feelings. You can feel whatever you want to feel, but you are responsible for how you react to them. In other words, and I tell them, like you're allowed to be mad at me, but you are not allowed to be nasty to me, you do not slam doors, you do not throw things. And if you do choose to do that, you need to clean up your mess. So that's kind of like a house rule that we have. Because they're not perfect, they are going to slam doors, they are going to get nasty with me. And so they need to know how to clean up their mess.
Kathleen Shannon 42:31
I love that feel your feelings, but clean up your mess. I know four is four years old is tough. Give him a couple years, I'm just in the middle of it. And that got me thinking about Oh, like just being the master of your will and a master of or even not even a master but awareness, like tapping into that awareness. I think Emily to what you're saying is feel your feelings. But you know, as creative entrepreneurs, as business people, as parents, as people who are responsible for ourselves and few people around us, it's really important to be able to obviously control like what we're doing. And I think that's kind of what makes us boss. Okay, I have a question as an entrepreneur yourself. I wonder if you ever struggle with this, like that balance that push and pull between being content and making like really big and seemingly impossible goals? Like Do you ever feel that pushing my goal like grateful and feeling abundant, where you're at, but also wanting more?
Andrea Owen 43:39
Completely? 1,000%? Yes, I had a coach, gosh, seven years ago, and she was specifically I hired her because she was a law of attraction coach, I was super into it at the moment. And we had been working together for a few months. And she said, Andrea, you are excellent at manifesting exactly what you need, but nothing more. So I was like any time but I would make these really realistic goals. And I was so afraid to to make them bigger or ask for more like more, please more, please. Like once I got what I wanted, I was like, Okay, I'm good. I don't want to be crazy. I don't want to you know, I don't want to be too big for my britches. And then again, this is this is a cultural thing that I took on. And so it's it's been work for me too, like I was yelling about a few minutes ago about taking up more space and asking for more. And it's it's every time my income i remember when i surpassed my husband's income a couple years ago, that was a big deal. And that felt like Whoa, I can actually do this. And at the time, I was working a lot on on my money stuff, which is a whole nother conversation. But yeah, to answer your question, yes, I absolutely struggle with that. And when I get pushed by mentors. I remember I was Tara Gentilly is a mentor of mine. And she asked, you know, I had a money goal and she's like, I want you to multiply that by six and I was like, And I did do the math. And it's it's exercises like that, that allow you to, you know, push yourself out of that comfort zone. And whether it's a financial comfort zone audience size, you know, are you writing books or whatever it is, just to write it down. It's, it can be huge, it can be absolutely huge.
Emily Thompson 45:23
Yeah, I definitely find writing down goals are really good practice. And they've even heard of people who are like, who tell you to write a write down, like your money goal, and then write down two more that are larger. And even like doing intuition checks, even as part of that little practice of like helping, or having your intuition help you actually choose the one that feels better for you, there are tons of little things that you can do like that, to help you to help you get used to seeing and wanting bigger things for yourself.
Andrea Owen 45:53
It's, it can be scary, I usually do good, better, best in terms of of money goals, you know, good would it be this amount better this and best that. And then also I track my money, just to be able to see it and then express gratitude for it. And I do all kinds of money, things like I've kind of a funny line, I'll tell you a funny story. We have colleague of mine, I was I was at a car rental place and got this unexpected expense that I was just pissed off about. And it was like $250, for something that should not have been $250. And in my but I had the monopoly a tank of gas, it was so mad at them. And I was telling I was venting to my friend about it. And she and I but I could afford it. You know, I just didn't want to pay for something like that. And she said that her husband had started using the mantra of well, it's a good thing. I'm rich. And so me and my friend decided we're gonna say I say it all the time now and my husband's like, it's kind of embarrassing. I say it like that when they bring us the bill it like takes us a little bit anxious about it. But but it's true. Like it's it's such a different energy. And, and and it also allows you to let go of things like being mad at hertz, rent a car.
Kathleen Shannon 47:10
Yeah, I want a T shirt that says I can afford the extra avocado. But now maybe whenever a waiter is like, the avocado is gonna be extra, I'm just gonna say Oh, it's good thing. I'm rich. I'm okay, my company is extremely profitable. I love it. I love it. So one thing that I've struggled with before in the past is a gratitude practice. And it's one that I've really been experimenting with a lot lately. And it reminded me of something that you were saying, whenever it comes to manifesting just enough, I always feel like I've been pretty good at manifesting that maybe not expressing the full amount of gratitude. Like really, my problem is then moving the bar a little bit higher. And so again, like I'm still manifesting more, more more, but it's hard to be happy in the process of it. So one thing I've really been doing to get right in my attitude around this stuff, is to just say thank you more, please. And so for every little thing that goes right, like our our zoom call today is going without a hiccup. Thank you more, please, my plane arrives on time. Thank you more, please. And just even in the smallest moments, I'm trying to say thank you more, please. And for some reason, that kind of practice, like really expressing my gratitude in that specific way feels so much better to me than doing my list of three things like really just saying thank you more, please, as I go, do you have any gratitude practices that you use? Or do on the regular?
Andrea Owen 48:34
Yeah, so I do that same thing I am I do three gratitudes and three goals in the morning and quite honestly, I maybe get to it two times a week. So I mean, that's like a good week. And but I do the same thing that you do. I my daughter is really funny about it. Now anytime she finds money on the ground, she picks it up and jumps up or down and says I'm a Money Magnet because I taught her
Kathleen Shannon 48:57
Andrea Owen 48:58
Money Magnet money loves me. And that's another one that my friend and I say to each other anytime we get a sale or anytime money comes in, we're just like people just love to give me money. Just some people that might sound so arrogant, but it's just again it's another way to express gratitude because I'm with you though, it's sort of I don't know it's a little boring to me just to and I felt like I was just checking off the boxes when I write down my gratitudes and it's I don't really lean into it and feel into it. But I'm the same I will do that and I also express gratitude to people I even small things like I look the cashier at the grocery store in the eye and tell them thank you any kind of service person I expressed gratitude towards and my friends I when I'm because I will think of them at like really odd moments if I'm like returning an email to someone else. And I'll think about how much how much gratitude I have for such and such friend who's so great about giving me advice about something I will send them a message and text them or something to express it in the moment.
Kathleen Shannon 49:58
Okay, so you've been through Shed? Do you feel like happy and badass all the time now? Like what's going on now?
Andrea Owen 50:07
No, it's really, you know, it's, it's interesting when I sent my manuscript over to my editor for this book, she one of the first things she said about it, she's like, this is a book about self awareness. And I was like, Yes, that's what I want it to be for people. So this is not a bug of like, hey, Emily, these are the 14 things you're doing wrong, you should change them, and then you're going to be happy. It's like, here are the 14 things that we're all doing, and that we will continue to do. Let's be so fast and badass about recognizing when they're happening in our life, so that we can recognize that they're making us feel like shit. So we can choose something better. And we can choose better habits. And there's so many tools in there about how to change the behavior and the habit. So you can show up and be the best woman or person that you want to be.
Kathleen Shannon 50:52
What are your What are some of your favorite habits are tools to overcome feeling like shit as fast as possible?
Andrea Owen 50:59
My favorite is the mantra similar to the one we were just talking about. Anytime my inner critic.
Kathleen Shannon 51:06
That's my new favorite money mantra. Give me money.
Andrea Owen 51:11
My favorite, just like the general inner critic bs is, which you know, now that I've been working on it for 11 years, it's pretty few and far between. But when I do hear it, I just tell myself, well, that just happened. And it's just acknowledging that it happened. It's not telling us at the end of the day, you know, our inner critic is just trying to keep us safe is trying to do its job. It's it's old shame triggers, it's, you know, we could have a whole nother podcast on that. But I'm just acknowledging it. And it's not positively or negatively charged. And then I move on, and some people who are brand new to that work, they're like, I wouldn't have to do it like 1020 times a day. And I'm like, then you have to do it 1020 times a day. You don't learn Spanish in one day. It's a practice that you have to keep doing. So that's one that I use. That's that's worked really well.
Kathleen Shannon 52:00
I love it. So
Emily Thompson 52:02
go, go. Sorry. Was that like a baseball? Like? We're giving each other signals, they're getting criminals, they're getting cost now go, Kathleen.
Kathleen Shannon 52:16
Okay, so tell us a little bit more about the book. Who is it for? And you know, tell us like the tone like, Who is this best for? And where can they buy it?
Andrea Owen 52:25
It's very conversational. That's what I hear from everybody. They're like, I feel like you're my wife's sister talking to me and telling me, you know, kind of straight shooting, it's for me, it's it's really not just for women, I've had a lot of male readers who've really enjoyed it. But I'll just keep in mind all the examples that I have in there are for women, because that's my audience and my practice. And it's for women who struggle, every single person who's read it and given me feedback on it has that I have checked off at least 10 of these 14 habits, and I feel like you were writing about me. And this also comes from 11 years of doing this work, and working with hundreds of women and on myself as well. And all major bookstores Barnes and Noble indiebound it's also I have 10 foreign deals. So if you're no 12 now 12 foreign deals, so if you're in Lithuania, or Russia, translated over there, but um, yeah, major bookstores and of course on Amazon and target.com and all those
Kathleen Shannon 53:26
great places nice and it's called How to stop feeling like shit 14 habits that are holding you back from happiness. Thank you so much, Andrea. Where else can our listeners find you?
Andrea Owen 53:37
easiest places your kick ass life calm and I love to hang out on Instagram and talk to people over there. Same handle your kick ass life?
Kathleen Shannon 53:44
And what makes you feel most boss? Oh my gosh, where did you tell me that? I was gonna I don't know. Think about like a moment recently. It could be you know, or whatever.
Emily Thompson 53:56
What did your intuition just tell you? There you go. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 54:01
My intuition to just tell me I know.
Andrea Owen 54:04
I feel most badass when I'm doing things that really scare me but I know are necessary. like reading that poem on my podcast and my intuition telling me that this is something that you need to do. That's when I feel most boss when when I am both brave and afraid at the same time.
Kathleen Shannon 54:21
That's me at the dentist.
Emily Thompson 54:26
Right? Right. Well, it'll the most boss when you're the dentist. I feel the most brave and afraid. Right? And I hope for you I hope for you that that you can come to happier terms with your intuition. I think that's one of the biggest things that I've gotten from this is is a point of view from someone in terms of fearing intuition in a way that I never considered and I'm hoping you become best buddies. But I will say tying the fear of success to intuition is really helping me understand more the fear of success? Yeah, yes. Yes to that. Absolutely.
Andrea Owen 55:06
My relationship just to just to touch on what Emily just said, it's sort of like that girl in high school that like, is the coolest girl at school and you like, kind of want to be her friend and she's like, I'll be your friend. And but you're like, I don't know. You smoke cigarettes. And you were really red lipstick. Right.
She's cooler. cooler than you. She's just bigger than me. And it's like, I know we're missing me. Yeah, exactly. She's like one of the pink ladies. And I'm like, yeah,
Emily Thompson 55:38
yeah, yeah. Awesome. Well, it was so great to chat with you. Thank you so much for coming to hang out with us.
Kathleen Shannon 55:43
Likewise, thank you for having me. Of course. Hey, bosses, I want to tell you about the CEO day kit. The CEO day kit is 12 months of focus planning for your business in just one day. So Emily and I have packaged up the exact tools that we've been consistently using for years that have helped us grow from baby bosses to the CEOs of our own businesses. gain clarity find focus, get momentum, prioritize your time, make better decisions and become more self reliant with the CEO day kit. Go to courses that being boss club to learn more and see if it's a fit for you and your business. Shout out to this episode sponsors including fresh books cloud accounting, go to freshbooks comm slash being boss and enter being boss in the How did you hear about us section to try it for free? Go to 20 twenty.com slash being boss that's 22 zero.com slash being boss to get some really good stock photos and they're gonna get through a few free ones your way and then of course fabfitfun comm enter the code boss so you can save $10 off your first box making it only 3999 Thank you for listening to be boss. Find Articles show notes and downloads at WWW dot being boss club. Thank you so much to our team and sponsors who make being boss possible our sound engineer and web developer Corey winter. Our editorial director and content manager Caitlin brain, our community manager and social media director Sharon lukey. And are being countered David Austin, with support from braid creative and indicia biography.
Emily Thompson 57:23
Do the word. Be boss, and we'll see you next week.