Episode 188 // Going from Boss to CEO

Emily Thompson 0:00
Hey Emily, guess what I'm looking forward to if I had to guess I'd say your next meal all through that.

Kathleen Shannon 0:08
But even more than that I'm looking forward to our annual being boss vacation in New Orleans.

Emily Thompson 0:13
Same. We still have a handful of tickets left. So if you've been wanting to join us on our annual being boss vacation in New Orleans and consider this you're signed to join us for a live podcast recording, masterclasses and workshops, and an epic Abbas celebration and more with me, Kathleen and your creative peers from all over the world

Kathleen Shannon 0:35
in the most magical city in the world, right?

Unknown Speaker 0:39
Yes.

Kathleen Shannon 0:40
All right. The being boss vacation is happening September 26. To the 28th in New Orleans. Go to being boss club slash Nola. For all the details.

Emily Thompson 0:50
We hope to see you there.

Kathleen Shannon 0:55
Hello, and welcome to being boss,

Emily Thompson 0:57
a podcast for creative entrepreneurs. I'm Emily Thompson.

Kathleen Shannon 1:01
And I'm Kathleen Shannon. What's up bosses. Today we are talking about going from being a freelancer or a side hustler or an aspiring entrepreneur, or even someone who is working project project and paycheck to paycheck to really being the CEO of your business. As always, you can find all the tools, books and links we reference on the show notes at WWW dot being boss club. as entrepreneurs and bosses, it can feel like we have to do everything and be everything our business needs in order to be successful. There's nothing wrong with learning new skills and educating yourself. But it's also important to know when to replace or supplement your effort with useful tools. Take accounting, it needs your attention on the regular to ensure your books are in order. Packing spreadsheets with numbers and shoe boxes full of receipts might get the job done. But is it really the most efficient use of your time. products like fresh books let you make better use of your time. Fresh books is accounting software, which kind of sounds boring, but it's far from it. It's been designed with small creative business owners just like you in mind. It's not designed for accountants. That means it's super easy to use for things like invoicing, time tracking, creating estimates, tracking expenses, late payment reminders, project collaboration, online payments and so much more. So stop freaking out about money and get organized freshbooks is a time saving business tool you've been looking for. To get a free 30 day trial of fresh books right now go to freshbooks comm slash being boss and enter being boss in the How did you hear about us section?

Okay, so let's just dive right in. Because leveling up from being boss to being CEO has really been top of mind for us lately. It's something that we want for ourselves, we have felt ourselves really leveling up. And it's something that we want for our bosses, we ran a survey, I don't know, probably like a year, year and a half ago now. And we learned our way six months ago. So on the worst with timelines just worse. Some time ago, we ran a survey and we found out that a lot of you all are not making enough money to pay the bills doing what you love. And so it is time to be the CEO to make more money to make better decisions. And to really own it to own what it is that you want. And to be able to break it down step by step and get there along the way. So first, I want to talk about the word CEO itself. Emily, what do you think of I mean, obviously, the stands for Chief Executive Officer but like what does it mean to you?

Emily Thompson 3:50
Right? And so whenever I really just think out of the context of being Boss, I think of like a 65 year old white guy is like in a suit in like a gray suit, like not even like a really great suit, but like a sort of odd color. And weird little low for shoes. Who are lean, definitely. Oh, bald, bald, straight up.

Kathleen Shannon 4:13
Three whispies Yes, a couple wisps. combed over your horn here wanting a terrible picture of what

Emily Thompson 4:24
I would imagine I'm not the only one that thinks this. I mean, that's sort of the picture that society has painted for us in terms of the kinds of people who run successful businesses. Am I right? I mean, that's, that's who has in the past. However, doing what we do, and as far as long as we have done it to that picture has began to take a different shape, which is quite welcome. If you ask me, where you know, the people who we know who are bosses of their business who are CEOs of you know the or And that they are growing are cool people, they're similar to us. They're men and women of all shapes and sizes and colors, who are building businesses based on on traditional models. So I'm glad today at least to be talking about how CEOs look now, because they're quite different than they used to be. However, there are some things that are still very much so the same.

Kathleen Shannon 5:29
Yeah, I definitely think of someone who is not just the head of the business, because that could be really any solopreneur just doing the work. And I even think about myself, whenever I first quit my day job and started working for myself as a freelance graphic designer, I kind of thought, like, Oh, I own this stuff. But I wasn't the CEO, because I wasn't really making a lot of decisions that were moving the business forward, I was just making decisions that would get me the next client that would pay the next pay with the next bill. But not really like thinking in a strategic level of how I wanted to grow, I wasn't bringing my values and intentions into how I wanted to grow. I wasn't the kind of CEO that I am today who really has taken on a leadership role beyond just what I can do.

Emily Thompson 6:16
For sure. And I think you just almost touched on something that I think holds very true for who is CEO is of a business and is the person who holds the big vision, who like in, who quite probably creates the big vision, and then holds it and make sure that it happens. And I think many that sort of the piece that a lot of bosses that we're probably talking to today is missing, they are still doing the daily grind the project to project and paycheck to paycheck. And they're not thinking about what the bigger vision is of their company, or maybe they're thinking about it a little bit, but they're not making it a priority.

Kathleen Shannon 6:52
That said, I love a CEO who knows their company inside and out. Because I guess that there have been a lot of people who become the leaders of the company without understanding the branding and positioning and mission of the business. They don't really know that dream customer, they don't understand how to implement the offerings. And they might even be out of touch with their numbers, which will not help them make better decisions. And I mean, that's talking large scale. But even on a small scale, whenever it comes to growing your team, for the first time ever, I feel like the more aware you are of all of the intricate aspects of your business, the more you will not only be able to hold the big vision, but break it down step by step so that you can implement your daily grind to take you step by step directly down that trajectory of where you want to go.

Emily Thompson 7:43
For sure, in this, this doesn't mean that, you know, CEOs are only for large companies, I mean CEOs also run small creative businesses, and you can even be a company of one and still be the CEO, you can still have a big vision, you can still know everything about your business. And you can still be the decision maker who's making all happen even as a single person or as a person with a team of one or two or five or 10, you can still take on that role. But it requires some things. And if it is a small company, you're also probably responsible for more than just those traditional CEO. job duties, you're also going to be the person who plans and probably even executes on that big vision as opposed to just the person who's holding it and making those big decisions. You may be the person who's also delegating, you're responsible for making other people making sure that other people execute on that vision. And then you may even be the person who's just taking all the actions yourself, which is perfectly fine and reasonable. But that means that the CEO is a very large hat, to

Kathleen Shannon 8:55
to where

Emily Thompson 8:56
to fill. What's the word I was thinking, Oh, that felt weird to wear fill

Kathleen Shannon 9:00
with what your head.

Emily Thompson 9:04
You're right. It's a very big hat to wear. But it's a really important one to wear if you want to, you know start growth start and grow a business that has like sustainability and longevity.

Kathleen Shannon 9:16
Yeah, totally. And so we don't want there to be just one definition of what it means to be CEO here at being boss. We are all about you owning who you are and the work that you're doing. But we have seen some common threads amongst bosses who are redefining what it means to be CEO. And they're really taking the reins and taking their businesses to a whole new levels. And that doesn't just mean millions of dollars. It could mean a lot of different things. So today, we're really going to explore this definition of CEO and what we've seen. But first, before we do that, I want to talk a little bit about the difference between a boss and a CEO. Because again, just if A few years ago, I felt really boss, but I didn't feel like the CEO. So let's talk about that like going from boss to CEO?

Emily Thompson 10:07
Sure, well, I think you know, first of all, you can be a boss without being the head of a company. So you can be a boss as an employee, and you can be a boss, as you know, a stay at home mom, or whatever it is, as long as you like, know what you want, you're gonna make it happen here at being boss, we talk about this specifically around creative entrepreneurs. But we've definitely come to understand, especially with like the release of the book, and the people who are finding so much value in it, like boss is not only reserved for creative business owners. However, CEO is like a smaller group of the larger group of boss.

Kathleen Shannon 10:46
Yeah, it's so funny, because just the other day, I was talking to my sister who I own braid creative with. And we are looking for a designer. And I thought, well, I could do this. And we're only looking for someone part time. And I was like, I could probably carve out 10 to 15 hours a week to do some design for our company. And I was talking to my sister about it. And she's like, no, I need you to be a leader within our company. So even she was holding me to this CEO standard that I've grown into, as much as sometimes I just want to go back to being boss of being a bomb ass graphic designer, right. But once you cross that threshold, there is no going back. Well, there is some good.

Emily Thompson 11:27
There can be I could see how that would work, however, like you're either a CEO or you're not

Kathleen Shannon 11:33
well, and I remember her saying like, I want you to be here on the ground, helping us drive decisions that are going to grow our company forward. And so a CEO is someone who's not only making decisions that affect, you know, just themselves or maybe just their client, they are making decisions that are going to affect the people who work for them. In my case, like at the branding agency. And in our case at being boss, we have a team of people and every decision we make affects them. But also you know, the people that we work for so yes, our one on one clients, but like how does it affect your greater audience. So one of the things that we talk about a lot is our one to one services, or even like our more scaled one to one services like our Nola vacation, or mastermind groups or CEO day kid or clubhouse offerings, like we have all of these things, but also like, we have to think about how our decisions affect our listeners, or how we're creating content, like making books, and all of the things and so it really is, I think going back out to that big grand vision of what it is that you want to be known for, and how you can continue to scale that in whatever way feels good for you,

Emily Thompson 12:48
for sure. And so, you know, we have obviously talked to many bosses in our day, whether that be you know, thought leaders or whatever that we have on the podcast as guests or even like listeners, and working creatives who come to our vacations or immediate, you know, book tour events, or whatever. And we've definitely seen there is a difference between a boss who's like hustling out and building thing and side hustling or freelancing. And if that's what you are here to do, then do it and love it. But then there are also people who want to build companies. And that's also completely admirable, but they're not the same thing. Like there are skills and mindset shifts, and all of these things that have to be implemented beyond just being a boss to put you into that place of CEO.

Kathleen Shannon 13:35
But you know, it's so funny, because whenever I think of CEO, even like a redefined term of it, I don't even necessarily think of myself until we were able to really bust out the different kinds of CEOs and this exercise that we have created for other people has given me so much freedom to like own the kind of CEO I am, I feel like overnight, I developed the kind of confidence to own my strengths, and to really own my weaknesses, and to get help where I need it. And so I want to go in and break down the different kinds of CEOs that we've seen, because I hope that what it does is give you all permission or ownership over how you're growing your business, because even whenever you're talking about the difference between growing a business and growing a company, like for me, if I was still a company of one just working for myself, it might even be like growing the kind of legacy that I want or the kind of memories that I want because I don't necessarily know that my goals are in scaling a business to be a multimillion dollar thing or to be you know, wildly popular and have hundreds of 1000s of followers or whatever. I'm not gonna say I don't want those things. I don't think I would grow them like I guess what I'm really if I'm not here

Emily Thompson 14:53
to do those things, but if they happen, that's great. If

Kathleen Shannon 14:55
I'm being completely honest, like whenever I look at you, Emily, I admire Are you so much? Because I think that you are that the kind of CEO that I imagine like for this modern day CEO, like, I feel like you're not afraid to have hard conversations, you're kind of like, no bullshit, you're getting shit done. That's the kind of CEO you are. And that's the picture I have in my mind of like, what all creative entrepreneurs CEOs should be. But I'm not that. And so oftentimes, like, even here at being boss, or overbraid, creative, I feel almost guilty for not being the same kind of CEO that you are, or that my sister is or that my other partner over at braid is like, it's hard to own. What you are, whenever you admire the qualities and someone else so much and see that as being boss or see that as being CEO. So anyway, all this to say, we have identified four different kinds of CEOs. And this has given me permission to own who I am as a CEO. And like I said, I hope it gives you all permission, or the confidence or whatever to own the kind of CEO that you are. So let's let's dig in,

Emily Thompson 15:59
let's say again, but before we dig in, I have a good question to ask you. Yeah, I think it's a good question.

Kathleen Shannon 16:06
To say like, there's some CEO confidence, right?

Unknown Speaker 16:09
Let me see.

Emily Thompson 16:10
Um, I want to talk about that transition, though, from boss, a CEO. And maybe it happened a couple of weeks ago, when you decided you found out what kind of CEO you are, perhaps. But when in your business, did you feel like you had made that shift?

Kathleen Shannon 16:25
I think, obviously, going from being a freelancer to starting braid creative with my sister felt huge, but even then, just the two of us, I didn't fully feel that transition, probably until I created the ecourse. So there is something about scaling our expertise and our content in a way that was valuable to our business that I knew that my sister didn't necessarily or wouldn't necessarily do or could do. Like, I don't think that she had the mind to do it at that time. So like, any time, I'm really driving the ship into like, a new Uncharted initiative, I feel like the CEO, that's a beautiful answer. How about you good.

Emily Thompson 17:12
I think for me, it was whenever I decided at nd shop biography to stop doing one off website designs, and I created my like, six and 12 month, like super exclusive, like all inclusive website projects. And that sort of scale, that kind of scale that took me from like, small potatoes to, you know, whatever is bigger and better than small potatoes, a steak, I don't know. Um, it took me to a place where I was scaling my business, I was scaling my expertise, I was offering my clients significantly more value. And because of all of those things, I was able to grow a team. So it went from being, you know, just me doing the basics that everyone else was doing to, again, new initiatives that had me running the kind of web design strategies studio that was different from anything that I was seeing that was super aligned with how it is that I wanted to deliver value at that time. And it was growing up bigger than me. I mean, that was probably the time when I felt like one most boss. But two, I was putting on the hat of like, head decision maker who holds the big vision and makes it do.

Kathleen Shannon 18:23
Yeah, and not being afraid to go back on that too, I think is really huge. So whenever I started braid with Tara, she was like, okay, we're gonna have a package process. Here's the method, here's how we work through things, and we're gonna stick to it. And probably the first time I said no to a client who didn't want to go through that process felt huge, but I still felt like it was a system that my sister had created and a system that like you are constantly creating, at nd shop autography. And even for here for us here at being boss. And I think that's where I start to feel that guilt of like, Oh, well, I I'm not very good at that. So what does that mean for me? Right? So for me creating an ecourse i think that i was really able to embrace my CEO ness whenever it comes to that one to many vision and like creating and sharing content and have been able to hold the vision for what that looks like. For sure.

Emily Thompson 19:17
I'll also tell you to one of the things that I didn't expect from like making that transition into you know, CEO of a business was how much it affected the rest of my life and my ability to show up and do the work for every vendor afterwards. Like I think once you once you like, put that bar on that level. There's not much going back from that where you know, you are now performing at a level and you now have like the sight and ability that will bleed into everything that you do like it's some legit boss up leveling for sure.

Kathleen Shannon 19:53
Yeah, like even just knowing where your line is of like what you'll say yes to and what you'll say no to and working towards what you've created, I know that we just had a conversation about boundaries a little a little earlier. But I think that that's part of it too is like see, being a CEO is knowing your boundaries and, and creating what you want to create and keeping all other distractions out.

Emily Thompson 20:16
Right. And that equating to a profitable sustaining. For sure. I love it. Okay, so let's talk about now, these a couple of different types of Cz CEOs that we found, because like everything that we do at being boss, we found that, you know, it's not one size fits all, not every business model is going to be the same. Something that works for one business or person is not going to work for another business or person. Like, we all have to find our own ways, because we're all different people. And we're all here to, you know, provide the world with value in different ways. So we found that, you know, the C type of CEO that I am is not the only type of CEO that's out there. And it same thing for Kathleen. And same thing for you guys as well. So what we have done is, we've looked at all the cool people that we know who are CEOs of creative businesses, and we've distilled them down into four types of CEOs

Kathleen Shannon 21:12
go through the four of them, and then we're going to start to break them down, we'll go into of all of these, okay, so here are the four different types of CEOs we can alternate back and forth.

Emily Thompson 21:23
Love it, let's do it. So there

Kathleen Shannon 21:24
is the get shit done CEO. And this CEO makes things happen no matter what they are always in control. They are all about some systems and organization, but they might struggle with flexibility and ease. So for them data rules, they love analytics, but they might have a harder time going with the flow.

Emily Thompson 21:46
Noted. That's me. Right, that's the time that I am now for the one that Kathleen is because Kathleen here is a free spirited, creative CEO, if ever there was one. So these types of CEOs are going to be more relaxed is going to be easier for them to go with the flow. And they don't mind a little disorganization. But they do probably struggle with finding time for everything, and also pinpointing the thing they need to be taking action on.

Kathleen Shannon 22:20
Then there is the intuitive whoo CEO. So this is someone who listens to their gut first, they might be into magic and spells and holding space for new clients. So this makes me think of like our friend as he Spencer, I think that she's totally intuitive will. Alright,

Emily Thompson 22:40
who else do we have. And we also have the visionary CEO. And this is kind of the one that I'm most fascinated with. But these are the types of CEOs who always have a ton of ideas. They are frequently inspired by any and all things around them. And they do usually need to partner with people who are going to help execute those ideas or dreams. So these are really the people who can hold the big vision I think better than anyone else, probably have the hardest time like really getting in there and doing the work.

Kathleen Shannon 23:12
Yeah, I think of Beyonce or even like an Elan musk whenever it comes to this. For sure. We're not creating that Empire all by themselves. Definitely. Okay, so right now bosses, I want you to hit pause on this episode and go take the quiz so that you can find out what kind of CEO you are. So go to being boss club slash quiz. And come back here to this podcast episode. And listen to us chat about your CEO type. But it's also helpful to hear about the other archetypes of CEOs as well because no matter what kind of CEO you are, you can always learn something from your peers. This is also helped me figure out who to partner with whenever it comes to owning what kind of CEO I am and where I need help.

Emily Thompson 23:58
Insert groovy music here.

Kathleen Shannon 24:05
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Emily Thompson 24:45
talk about why it's important to know what kind of CEO you are first and foremost, because I think you just gave a really great example of thinking, you know, because you weren't a certain type. Maybe you weren't actually CEO. So I think first and foremost, it gives You maybe permission as if you needed to or like,

Unknown Speaker 25:05
yeah, or ship,

Emily Thompson 25:06
yes to be able to say, you know, I'm not that white guy in a gray suit with his wisps. But I am a CEO in my own right. So I think first and foremost, giving yourself giving yourself ownership over that thing that you know, you want to be or are, if you already are,

Kathleen Shannon 25:27
I think that a lot of our bosses and listeners are really good at doing a lot of things really well. And so it can be challenging to see really what your strengths are. Or if you don't really know where you want to focus your energy, it is so helpful to know what your strengths are so that you can double down on those things. But to also pinpoint your weaknesses so that you can either let things go that you're not good at, or stop trying to be everything to everyone by acknowledging, oh, I'm actually not so good at that. Or it can help you pinpoint where you need more help. So really understanding your strengths and weaknesses, that kind of self awareness in your CEO style is so crucial. Okay, so we know what kinds of why it's important to know what kind of CEO you are. So let's go through again, the CEOs, the different kinds, and really dig into who they are, what their strengths are, what their weaknesses are. And here we go.

Emily Thompson 26:28
First and foremost, we have the get shit done CEO, which is like me. And this person is going to be powerful and strategic and brave and brave, brave, and, or brave, or braid. And the idea here is that this person is always in control, and they are making it Do

Kathleen Shannon 26:53
Do you feel in control, like all the time, um,

Emily Thompson 26:57
I do often feel in control, even if like, it's just an illusion. But even when I'm not I want to be I do recognize that like, I'm a bit of a control freak, I do want control, I have no problem. I've learned to relinquish control when necessary. But I do absolutely feel like sort of the the puppet master. Quite often we're like, up here just making it all do.

Kathleen Shannon 27:24
I definitely think that that is the strength of a get shit done CEO, I almost think of them as a director of a movie, for example, like they can see all the pieces of the puzzle. And they expect for things to go wrong, because things will go wrong, but they see it as their job to fix things that aren't working. So I almost even think of it as like a director or an engineer of sorts. I think that you are so good at keeping your head on your shoulders in moments of crisis. You're always like, Okay, this is going to be okay. Even right now, as of recording this, we're dealing with a lot of the GDPR like European Union standards. Yep. And I was like, I can't do any of it.

Emily Thompson 28:06
Do your witnesses in a second, Kathleen,

Kathleen Shannon 28:08
but Emily was like, Okay, this isn't gonna be so bad. We just need to do this, this and this. And here's what we need to tackle first. Like, I feel like you're really strong at figuring out priorities and what needs to happen first, what needs to happen second, when these happen third, and how you're going to break all that down into a business model and how it's going to make money.

Emily Thompson 28:25
There you go, right. I mean, I do think that is one of the strings of a get shut down CEO. It's one of those people who really can see every part of the business and not only see it, but know how it works. So are you think and I think more so than any type of CEO like our brains just work in a way where we have a good understanding of all of the pieces and how they work, so that we can make really good plans for getting shit done. And we're also I think, I think we have to learn throughout the process that it's going to be fucking hard and things are going to go wrong. And you can choose how you feel about it. And if you haven't learned that yet, you're in for a wild and fun ride because you will be taught that at some point.

Kathleen Shannon 29:07
Okay, but as we get shit done CEO, what do you struggle with and what will or get shit done CEOs that are listening to this episode, like what can they expect to struggle with?

Emily Thompson 29:18
I think it's that relinquishing control piece for sure. And delegating, so allowing other people to take pieces of that, like a beautiful plan that you've put in place and have someone else take action on it. That's definitely something that I've struggled with in the past, and not even so much from the side of like, I don't want to relinquish control but even sometimes, like communicating what needs to get done to someone else because it all lives within our head. So getting it out of our head and into like the hands or Asana tasks of other people can be a super difficult thing to learn. Once you learn it, though it is much easier to do but even now, I am one of those CEOs who is Really good at doing most of the things. And quite often I struggle with the idea of like, should I let someone do this? Or in the time that's going to take me to explain to them how to do it, I could just do it myself. So that's something I definitely struggle with. And I know other get shit done bosses do as well.

Kathleen Shannon 30:18
I also think that you have a really high standard, I think it's really hard for get shit done.

Emily Thompson 30:24
told this so many times lately? I do.

Kathleen Shannon 30:29
So it can be hard to see other people's areas of weaknesses or their own blind spots, because you're so good at doing everything that if everyone around you isn't good at doing everything, it can be frustrating.

Emily Thompson 30:42
Absolutely. And that's that's actually been one of the lessons I've been learning most recently is that, you know, I think all CEOs and their own right or their own kind of unicorn, for sure. But it has stepping up in this role, even more over the past couple of months have taught me how this sort of work is not really cut out for everyone. And that there are some people who are meant to just do a couple of things really, really well. And that's a great thing. But that does make it really hard for me who is someone who can do lots of things really well.

Kathleen Shannon 31:18
I think you can also be a little stubborn, I'm stubborn as fuck. So like I think that like as a CEO, like you come to your decisions really fast. And with experience that maybe I think along with like remembering that other people have areas of weakness that you can think that your answer is always the right answer as it gets shit done CEO,

Emily Thompson 31:39
for sure. And this is like other personality types too. And maybe not even so much for get shit done. But I do know that my personality lends itself to me being the type of person who super thinks everything through. And not completely obviously, like there are definitely blind spots that I have. But I am i know that i'm also oftentimes underestimated, because the things I say tend to come out of nowhere, but few people realize that I've literally been spending weeks thinking on this thing, or whatever it is, by the time I actually say them out loud. That's a personal flaw. Well,

Kathleen Shannon 32:16
I think that you and my sister so both my business partners are very similar in that you have layered thinking so like almost like an If This Then That mentality but 10 layers deep. Yeah. And all on Wes

Emily Thompson 32:30
all at once all the time, all the time. So but that does make me It definitely makes me appear super stubborn. But I also am super stubborn. So that just plays into it as well.

Kathleen Shannon 32:41
Okay, so are there any mindsets that you feel like you need to embrace as a get shit done CEO?

Emily Thompson 32:48
I think it's enjoying the process a lot. I mean, really wanting to get everything done all the time. And like being the puppet master or whatever leaves me just really sort of like driving at home all the time.

Kathleen Shannon 33:02
Yeah, it's like you see the Envision and you want to be there?

Emily Thompson 33:05
Yes, I was actually just having conversation with David yesterday about this, where I do have a really hard time sometimes seeing the cycles, where I just want to start something, finish it and be done. Where and I have a really hard time dealing with the fact of while I'm finishing that thing, three more things are going to start that will also have in dates, that will only mean more beginning dates, like the cyclical nature of creating a thing is really difficult for me because I want to get it done. But it's it's never done. Yeah, that is super difficult for me, but also trusting other people to help me make it do as hard as well.

Kathleen Shannon 33:43
All right, so what are some habits that you want to practice as it get shit done CEO.

Emily Thompson 33:49
One of the things I have to focus on a lot is taking care of myself of like, again, just driving it so hard all the time. I need to pause a lot. And remember that if I'm not healthy and happy then neither is anything that I'm doing. Okay,

Kathleen Shannon 34:05
I think that's something that would be so helpful for you, because I've seen you like get into this place where you are all work and not enough play as much as we talk about boundaries and all of the things I think that like you you're good at sitting on your porch and you're good at making your meals. You're good at gardening I mean you're good at like mandatory lazy days, like that kind of stuff. Yes, but I feel like whenever it comes to the other things that you want to do like yoga or hitting up a sauna, I remember a few weeks ago you were really like I don't know not feeling well and I was like I think you need to go sweat it out in a sauna. And every time I see a sauna I think of the project management software we're talking about the cedar boxes that you sit in a really hot and that you sweat in like literal sauna and or as people up here call it sauna. Nor do they Yeah, Asana. Anyway, I think that You need to time block those out for yourself like those times to do those things of self care.

Emily Thompson 35:05
I agree. I completely agree with that.

Kathleen Shannon 35:08
And we've got some training on time blocking right?

Emily Thompson 35:10
What is it? Yes, people go boss club slash time if you'd like to know how it is that Kathleen and I timewalker calendars to get all the things done, including going to the south,

Kathleen Shannon 35:21
South China. Sea a time block that out. Okay, so what else do you want to talk about with getting shit done CEO?

Emily Thompson 35:30
I think we're good. I think thinking back on some of the things that really helped me sort of align and get all the things done that I need to get done. It's for me creating some hardcore boundaries around things like my office hours, like if I didn't have them, I would work all the time, all the time. So for me setting office hours, like we all talk about a nine to five, but I have a nine to five, like the boss is a nine to five, because if I didn't, it would be a nine to nine to nine.

Kathleen Shannon 35:59
If I didn't, it would be a 3pm to 4pm. I'd like to be spending the rest of the time working out and sitting in the sauna.

Emily Thompson 36:06
Yeah. Isn't that the truth? Right. So I think for me setting some office hours so that I have the space to do all the other things and then really defining roles so I can delegate to people and knowing what it is that I'm responsible for, and that I should not touch because there are things that I should not touch.

Kathleen Shannon 36:22
Alright, so just a reminder, go to being boss club slash quiz to find out what kind of CEO you are. And you'll get your results we're going to map it out for you so that you know what kind of mindset shifts you need to take on what kind of boundaries to set what kind of habits will help you play to your strengths and your weaknesses. And we'll talk about like when you're out of alignment to your CEO type and when you're in alignment to your CEO type like what that means for you. So be sure to go there and take it we even give you sharing graphics so that we can see what kind of CEO you are on all the social media. Okay, so who are some get shit done CEOs? Emily, obviously here we've been talking about that, but whenever and this is just as projecting guessing, but from the conversations that we've had with bosses on this podcast, Melissa Hartwig, the co founder of the whole 30 and number one New York Times bestselling author, Melissa is for sure a get shit done CEO who else

Emily Thompson 37:23
we put our meets at on our list he came on and talked about living a rich life long ago on the being boss podcast. He is definitely one that we see as being the kind of boss who is a get shit done CEO and Brooke Castillo

Kathleen Shannon 37:39
who she is owning it. Okay, now

Emily Thompson 37:45
that's my kind of CEO. Right

Kathleen Shannon 37:47
I am the free spirited creative

Emily Thompson 37:51
CEO a that the truth.

Kathleen Shannon 37:53
So some words to describe this would be adventurous, passionate, thoughtful, and inquisitive.

Emily Thompson 38:01
Angel though. Right. So Ames? Yeah. Tell me a little bit about yourself. Including maybe some strengths you got there? kathlyn because you have them.

Kathleen Shannon 38:13
Yeah, I mean, I'm feeling kind of shy like talking about.

Unknown Speaker 38:22
Do you mean talk about you? Yeah, you talk about me.

Emily Thompson 38:26
Alright, so I see the free spirited creatives, creative CEOs being the types of people who are like, all ideas and creative juices. So they're the kinds of people and I think about them a lot. And like, there's like, the artsy films like The graphic designers or the photographers, like I imagine a lot of the people who are listening to this are these kinds of people. So you are all about, you know, having ease in your business and being super flexible and having lots of freedom to create what it is that you want to create. And I think that those sorts of things give you some hardcore strings,

Kathleen Shannon 39:00
because I think we're the word CEO comes in, because like what you're describing there is a free spirited, creative, but that CEO qualifier, I think, is where I come in with a natural born leadership, and positive energy and enthusiasm for sharing my gifts of knowledge and my purposeful work and really blending the adventurous life that I'm living with the work that I'm creating, that really makes my work feel meaningful and impactful and profitable.

Emily Thompson 39:34
I love that. Right? I agree with that a lot. And I even think like these people also are the kinds of people who are pretty good with the big vision once they can get there. So these are the kinds of people who see these big creative projects or really see how their creativity is going to serve the world in really big ways. And I also think that people like this and you this really lines up with you a lot. It's kind of people who just like to learn things. Like you're just there to soak it all up and then like, turn it into beauty.

Kathleen Shannon 40:06
One way or the other, I am happiest whenever I'm learning something new. And sometimes I think that's my biggest fear of getting old is, I see the generations ahead of me. And so I'm specifically thinking about, like my grandparents, for example of just becoming stuck in their ways and doing the same thing over and over again, and not really evolving not even just what they're doing or where they're living or what they're eating, but really what they're learning. And so I sorry, to my grandparents, most of them are not alive anymore. And I don't mean that to say that, like they didn't have their own path. But for me as a free spirited creative, I am definitely happiest when I am learning and implementing something new. But I got my struggles too. So as a free spirited creative, I definitely crave structure. But too many rules leave me feeling suffocated. So I love time blocking out my calendar. And I love the kind of freedom that comes from the self care habits and routines that I have time blocked into my day. But also, sometimes my calendar can become too regimented, or even like our structures and systems that we've set up for being boss and getting stuff done with our task management software and all the things sometimes I'm like, Oh, my gosh, can we just say the thing that we want to say on Instagram? Like, do we have to have it be the scheduled out post? And you're like, yes, otherwise, I feel scattered.

Emily Thompson 41:32
Right? It does make for some interesting conversations, for sure. But I think I think it's important to play to that as much as possible. If it's important for feeding you then feed yourself. I also think that you guys are all ideas, a lot of times where the creativity just comes out in all of these like big things you want to or maybe even small things that you want to do. I even think this applies a lot to the types of creatives who have, you know, started and run 18 businesses by this point, like your photographer today and your graphic designer tomorrow, and he can't decide exactly what it is that you want to provide to your clients, like you have a problem defining, whenever it comes to being that CEO, it is definition, that's going to give you a business model that you can scale and grow. So I think I think there's a struggle there with like really reining it in into that very clear offering that will turn your creativity into, you know, value and service to the world.

Kathleen Shannon 42:37
Yeah, and I think that the mindset shift that I've really had to embrace with all the ideas is remembering that I can be the kind of CEO that shares the ideas with other bosses who are going to take those ideas and run with them. So I almost get as much satisfaction. So this is specifically where my branding business comes in handy is that I get to be so creative. For all the kinds of businesses I would love to have myself and I get to do the funnest part, which is the branding and positioning and the identity design, and even the coaching through those first like setup phases of starting a really creative business. And then they get to do all the hard stuff of like really doing it. And I think that's the thing that free spirited like another mindset, you know, shift that free spirited creatives can take on is that like, if you're just constantly chasing the shiny new thing and trying to make a business out of it, you're not going to get very far. But you can still do you, you can still experiment and have fun and be you and start to weave in those different aspects of who you are into what you want to be known for. But you can still focus in on a path and decorate that path along the way with all the experiences that you want to be having.

Emily Thompson 43:56
All right, what are some of your favorite habits.

Kathleen Shannon 44:00
So one lately that I've been really practicing a lot of and being really protective of is scheduling enough white space in order to give myself time to breathe and think and pursue what I find interesting. So even for me, I was thinking about this other day, because I've been doing more client work over a braid creative. And I basically need three days of no meetings in order to design one brand platform, even though it might only be taking me about eight hours from start to finish to design. I still need like, what's three days worth 24 hours worth of white space in order to create that eight hours and then also within that I'm going for lots of walks and then I'm having a lot of content ideas for being boss. So I really need a lot of that white space in order to feel like productive and happy.

Emily Thompson 44:50
Good. I love that. That was just your advice to me for solving like my issues was adopting your qualities Like, I think that's also part of it, I don't think you should just ever be just one, you can find value in all continue

Kathleen Shannon 45:06
well, and that's why I'm glad that we're going through all of these because whenever you all take the quiz, you're going to get your one kind of CEO. But I think it's so important to listen to this whole episode in its entirety, so that you can hear all the other practices and habits and mindsets of other types of CEOs because you're probably a blend of a few different ones. I know that for me, I do feel a kind of more of a blend between free spirited and get shit done. And in the full report that we've created, I definitely embody the free spirited creative, but there are some struggles that like I don't necessarily identify with. Anyway. Another thing that I really like to do as a free spirited creative, though, is to do the most creative thing first. So I know a lot of people I don't know, you might even be like an eat the frog first kind of person, like, get the thing done, though, I

Emily Thompson 45:55
wouldn't do the creative thing for you. Okay, yeah.

Kathleen Shannon 45:58
So I know that some people want to do the thing that's nagging at them first, like maybe get their inbox to zero first. But I definitely want to be writing first thing or you're designing something that's fun to design first thing or even brainstorming pen to paper first thing about the next project or even business model, like I can brainstorm, but if I'm getting pen to paper, it feels a little bit more creative, and fun, than if I'm sitting behind my inbox, like clearing out my inbox or doing the task that is just like going to the bank or whatever. Like the thing that's painful for me to do.

Emily Thompson 46:33
For sure, what about some boundaries?

Kathleen Shannon 46:36
Um, okay, so I think really, for most free spirited creatives, I think I'm good at this. But this is one that's important is to really get specific about what it is that you're doing all day, what it is that you're offering, and how much it costs. I think if you can get really specific, like as if you were drawing up a contract between you and your customer, even if you're a maker, for example, like drawing up a contract between how many necklaces you were making, where you're selling them at, you know how much it costs, like I think if you can just get really, really specific about what it is that you're doing and what it looks like, then you can start to move the ball forward on actually making a profit and actually making money. Because you just have to, you have to know what it is that you're doing and how much it costs. And I just see too many free spirited creatives getting too vague, as vague coaches,

Emily Thompson 47:34
right, too vague or like just to bouncing around from one thing to the next. And I think that that I think you're spot on with that. Because free spirit agree, we just want to do what feels good. I think oftentimes, and as a CEO, everything you do is going to feel good.

Unknown Speaker 47:54
Basically.

Kathleen Shannon 47:55
I mean, I do believe in like getting in alignment and really trying to craft out the dream job that you want to have. But yeah, I mean, if it doesn't feel good, really understanding your why will start to make it feel good.

Emily Thompson 48:10
Yes, that is that clarity comes in.

Kathleen Shannon 48:14
Okay, so time tracking has been huge for me. So I'm really good at time blocking. But I'm not great at time tracking. And sometimes I can struggle with feeling like I don't have enough time to do all the things. And I can feel like almost frantic about it. But then if I sit down and I start tracking my time in an app, like timely, for example, I realize I can get so much done in such little time. I just it helps me like really just focus more than anything, and it helps me know where my time and energy is going. And to make sure that I'm being most productive. Whenever I am sitting down to my laptop. I love it.

Emily Thompson 48:53
All right, here are some bosses that we think fit into this free spirited, creative CEO. Box, if you will. Kathleen here for sure. Marie Forleo. I think she's a great example. Perhaps people that listen to us and go, I have not been the kind of person who really focuses on doing work that makes her feel good and has built a really great business from it. Also, Dwayne Johnson, who is the rock here? For sure. And then Richard Branson, I feel is also I mean, look at the virgin company and all the things that it does.

Kathleen Shannon 49:34
Yeah. And he owns so many different companies. He's really figured out how to scale that like it's a how to scale his passion for owning and doing a lot of different things, for sure. All right, next up, we

Emily Thompson 49:44
have two more, neither Kathleen nor I are these we may go through these a little bit faster. That does not mean that they are any less awesome, simply that we have slightly less connections here, but let's do it. Alright, there's

Kathleen Shannon 49:57
the intuitive whoo CEO. So as we Developing out these different kinds of CEOs, I think that everyone on the team thought that I might land under this one, but I didn't. This person is a little bit more introspective, relational, they are aware, and they are tactical, like they are in tune with the deeper, more expansive parts of work and life. And this makes them a great CEO.

Emily Thompson 50:23
Right? I feel like these people are the people who probably both struggle with the work life blend the most, but also have the most capacity, you're really like hitting a home. Like having that really holistic work life blend. I also think that these people are really great to add at trusting their gut and just getting really aligned with what it is that they are offering and who it is that they are probably more so than any of the other ones, they're able to really like tap into that flow of who they are, and trust the process of creating the thing.

Kathleen Shannon 50:58
Yeah, I feel like this kind of CEO has instincts that are so onpoint, that they can pretty much trust their gut at any turn, even if it's like bucking the norm or going against the grain. If everyone else is getting online, they are getting offline if their gut tells them to.

Emily Thompson 51:16
Absolutely. And I also think that these are probably the best people, people, the people, persons, the person, people, you know what I mean? Where these people are all about the connections, they're all about, you know, making sure that you know, customer client experience is super spot on that they're delivering the value that you know, they're promising, like, these are the people who are building those really awesome relationships in their business.

Kathleen Shannon 51:40
And I want to make sure that people don't think that the intuitive whoo CEO is all like head in the clouds, because I think that that can be the first impression that comes up. But this CEO does not mind keeping up with the numbers. They do not mind doing the practical work. They don't mind reading all the entrepreneurial books, and they probably are. But at the end of the day, this kind of CEO is resting easy knowing that there is magic in their bones and that the universe has their back.

Emily Thompson 52:08
Amen. Let's talk about some struggles, though, because we all got them even these folks. Because I think it's probably more difficult for these bosses to be super objective in their business. So they can look at the numbers they can know their schedules, all of these things. But that, that that practical and intuitive side has to be something that they have to find balance in. And I think that can be a hardcore struggle.

Kathleen Shannon 52:38
Yeah, and I think that this person also likes to really thoroughly visualize I think that this is a strength for them, like being able to visualize what they want. But sometimes they can be perfectionist where they want to visualize something in its entirety in order to understand it. So they can wrestle with the unpredictability and the ups and downs of running a business like that business side of things, especially if they didn't visualize those hiccups along the way. So they might be prone to experience some anxiety and work in life that will have them even second guessing that intuition that they are so skilled at.

Emily Thompson 53:15
I also feel like these bosses are also maybe the ones who are most prone to attaching their own self worth to the well being of their business, which is a very tricky place to be guys because they're not the same.

Kathleen Shannon 53:29
That is me for sure.

Unknown Speaker 53:33
I do that big time.

Emily Thompson 53:36
Alright, let's talk about some mindsets that these CEOs need to embrace. I think that owning those ups and downs of business and like really trusting the process of business is really important and remembering that it doesn't all have to be work that and I think these bosses probably more than any of them understand that balance between work and life again, that has them pulling back from work in order to nurture themselves so that they can make their work even better.

Kathleen Shannon 54:09
Yeah, like have fun with it.

Emily Thompson 54:11
Alright, so productive habits for these bosses include ritualizing a business system so really getting in there with how it is that you are doing something like monthly goal setting like making it as purposeful as you do other important things in your in your life. Again, sort of bringing back that work life blend. We know

Kathleen Shannon 54:31
we're so good at this is Biddy Tarot our friend Bridget Esslemont. Like everything that she creates really does balance that intuition and business side of things. So we both had a good chuckle whenever we got her yearly Tarot planner and it was busted out into quarters.

Emily Thompson 54:48
Yes, it was genius. She is definitely one of those people who knows her numbers she has like she has all the practical sides of her business under wraps, but it's all trusting her gut along the way.

Kathleen Shannon 55:00
It's genius, I think a very productive and magical tool that our intuitive whoo CEOs can use is the chalkboard method. So if you are not familiar with the chalkboard method, go to being boss club slash chalkboard. This is a visual goal setting system that will help you set those big goals, track your progress, and make space for what it is that you want. It is our favorite kind of boss magic,

Emily Thompson 55:26
right and some boundaries that will probably help you along the way is working to make sure you're communicating very clearly with your customers and clients. I also feel like these kinds of CEOs, probably you will take the biggest hit whenever communication things go awry. So make sure those things are on lockdown, and then also create an inspiring and dedicated workspace for yourself. I think it's really important for all bosses to have a workspace that they find inspiring and I think the CEOs in particular will find that most helpful.

Kathleen Shannon 55:59
So some intuitive woo CEOs that you may know as we mentioned, or as he Spencer who wrote lunar abundance. Bridgette Esslemont who is the author and founder of Biddy Tarot. We've got Gary Vaynerchuk. Here,

Emily Thompson 56:12
we do have Gary Vaynerchuk. If anyone has ever listened him to him talk, you will maybe recognize that he is one of the most intuitive bosses slash CEOs that I've personally ever heard speak. Maybe I read it all wrong. But I think he might fall into this one surprisingly,

Kathleen Shannon 56:36
I want to have him on the show NASSCOM, consider yourself consider yourself

Emily Thompson 56:40
an intuitive whoo boss.

Kathleen Shannon 56:42
And then we've also got Martha back here, who is who I got my life coaching training under and she is so intuitive and about trusting your gut and finding your own Northstar. And really honing in on those instincts so that you can make amazing decisions. Okay, finally, we have Wait, before we get into the final one, just again, if you haven't gone to being boss club slash quiz, you can take a really short quiz to find out what kind of CEO you are and get a full report on everything that we're talking about here. Okay, final CEO is the visionary. So this person is daring, resourceful, ambitious, and positive. This is a CEO with expansive ideas, strategic innovation, and a contagious enthusiasm for both work and life.

Emily Thompson 57:32
Right, these are going to be the CEOs who see exactly how it is that they want to build the thing or maybe see exactly what it is that they want it to be. And that kind of vision is gold, when you know what you want, you can actually start moving towards it. And I also think these are the types who are pretty good at seeing as we're the larger picture, like some of the things that will go into it, maybe not all the way down to the bottom of like starting taking action now. But they have the sort of this broad scope of vision that is pretty magical. And I also think that they are the kinds of the kinds of CEOs who are going to be making and creating the new thing, they're going to be the most innovative, they're going to craft the weirdest business model that totally works or they're going to use and I think they're going to pull a lot of people to themselves. So they're going to grow their tribe and not feel weird, usually about networking, I think.

Kathleen Shannon 58:32
I think that these kinds of CEOs have such an incredible vision for the future. They are so innovative and creative on that whole next level. So I basically think of anyone who's created a startup, or is thinking of really changing the world with technology or ushering in just new ideas that people have yet to embrace. Definitely the visionary CEO, but they struggle. I think, just like all those startup founders, with giving away too much of themselves to doing the thing all of the time, I feel like they can become completely consumed by their vision. And by their work,

Emily Thompson 59:12
for sure. And without really seeing the whole path to get there. So they know where I want it to be. They usually need someone to help them actually get it there. And especially those really first minute steps are usually totally like gone from their mind. So a struggle with being getting there. Like they see it. They just can't, or they struggle with getting there on their own.

Kathleen Shannon 59:34
And I think with holding such a big vision, this kind of CEO really needs to be aware of where their energy drains and their energy leaks are so that they can serve as much of their energy as possible for creating the thing that's going to change the world.

Emily Thompson 59:49
Absolutely. So we also recommend the chalkboard method for CEOs who find themselves in this place as well and also doing some My hardcore, just like nose to the grindstone practice of how it is that you take big goals and chunk them down into small actionable steps. Because even though you can hire people to help you implement, it's going to be so much easier if you know how to do this yourself, even if someone's implementing it for you, you'll gain so much understanding of what you're building, if you know what's going into creating it.

Kathleen Shannon 1:00:26
And you also need to set some boundaries. So I think as a visionary CEO, it's so important to define your role and really understand what you're responsible for, and what is the best use of your time and energy. And so this will make it so clear for you where you need to delegate, and what the duties of the people that you're delegating to are,

Emily Thompson 1:00:46
for sure. And I think Lastly, these people super need to know what their core values are, and hold them so tight. Because I feel like these are the kinds of CEOs who are most likely to go off the rails for in like going after something that is so misaligned with what they actually believe in, because it's this big, shiny goal that they haven't really aligned it with who it is that they are. So knowing those core values and going after it in that filter.

Kathleen Shannon 1:01:16
So I definitely think of an Elan Musk, who is the inventor or investor and inventor of Tesla, SpaceX, all of those things. He's a Silicon Valley. I don't know, mastermind out there, but then on a more like, kind of being boss level of people who might be listening to this who are maybe not necessarily trying to be Ilan Musk, I think of like a Tim Ferriss, for sure. And then I also think of Paul Jarvis. He's one of our friends and buddies that comes to mind whenever I think of a visionary who's doing it his way.

Emily Thompson 1:01:49
Right? I also think that Seth Godin fits into this

Kathleen Shannon 1:01:52
why nicely, Seth Godin Come on our show, please write come chat with us. It's fine.

Emily Thompson 1:01:57
It's fine.

Kathleen Shannon 1:02:00
I also admire Barbara Corcoran. Is that how you say her name, she's on Shark Tank, but she's also an investor and speaker and I heard her episode of how I built this and she is absolutely a visionary.

Emily Thompson 1:02:12
And also Steve Jobs, obviously, is one who certainly fits into this realm of CEO someone who just has a massive vision and can can pull people to him to make it happen. Oh, and Tony Robbins. He's

Kathleen Shannon 1:02:26
a visionary for sure. Yes. Okay, so if you want to know what kind of CEO you are, be sure to go take the quiz at being boss club slash quiz. And be sure to share your graphic and tag us wherever you share so that we can see what kind of CEO you are. Hey, bosses, I want to tell you about the CEO day kit. The CEO day kit is 12 months of focus planning for your business in just one day. So Emily and I have packaged up the exact tools that we've been consistently using for years that have helped us grow from baby bosses to the CEOs of our own businesses. gain clarity, find focus, get momentum, prioritize your time, make better decisions, and become more self reliant with the CEO day kit. Go to courses that being boss club to learn more and see if it's a fit for you and your business.

Emily Thompson 1:03:24
Thank you for listening to being boss. If you're looking for more help and being boss of your work in life accom check out our website where you can find Episode shownotes. browse our archives and access free resources like worksheets, trainings, quizzes, and more. It's all at WWW dot being boss dot club. Do the work be boss