Episode 97

Boundaries for Getting What You Want

November 8, 2016

Today we’re talking about boundaries—work/life boundaries, team boundaries, client boundaries, and energetic boundaries. We’re sharing how boundaries allow us to work smarter not harder, and can even allow us to tap into our creativity on a whole new level.

Learn More about the Topics Discussed in this Episode
"Boundaries come from self-awareness and knowing what you need to get the job done."
- Emily Thompson

Discussed in this Episode

  • Boundaries help us work smarter, not harder
  • Goals as boundaries
  • How to put boundaries in place
  • Boundaries and systems with clients
  • Boundaries for introverts

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In this episode, the Your Ideal Day worksheet was mentioned. Download your copy here!


More from Kathleen

Braid Creative

More from Emily

Almanac Supply Co.


Emily Thompson 0:00
Hello and welcome to being boss episode number 97. This episode is brought to you by the being boss clubhouse.

Being boss and work and life is being in it.

Kathleen Shannon 0:16
It's being who we are doing the work, breaking some rules. And even though we each have to do it on our own

Emily Thompson 0:23
being boss is knowing we're in it together.

Kathleen Shannon 0:28
Alright, it's just us today. So let's jump in today we're talking about boundaries, work life boundaries, team boundaries, client boundaries, energetic boundaries, testing your boundaries, what to do when you've crossed a

Emily Thompson 0:45
boundary and drawing the line here, Kathleen.

Kathleen Shannon 0:49
Alright, let's get started. What What are you thinking about when it comes to boundaries lately?

Emily Thompson 0:55
I think a lot about like, right now I'm in the hole work smarter, not harder, like mindset where,

Kathleen Shannon 1:01
you know, I've

Emily Thompson 1:02
been doing this for six and a half years. And like, I will pat myself on the back all day every day for sure for like, what it is that I've been able to create. But I also feel like for like, it was a little late in the game that I really started like, really be mindful of boundaries. And I can definitely see the shift that it had in my business whenever I started putting, like all kinds of boundaries into place. And part of that is just like maturing and getting older and like, you know, becoming an old woman or whatever. But it's also like becoming a more mature business owner as well. And so for me, when I think about boundaries is definitely continuing to put them in place so that I'm continually working smarter, not harder. So I can get into a place in my business where I'm working less hours per week, or where I'm able to have like a much higher impact with the amount of work that I do. And granted, like, I'm already probably one of the most productive people that I know, whenever I sit down, like I have some clear boundaries around like not getting on social media is that I can focus on my work or whatever it may be. But um, but yeah, I think a lot about the work smarter, not harder. And for me, it's about putting some boundaries in place, so that I can just like, make it do but I know that creatives like will cringe often time at the idea of boundaries. So that's what's on my mind. Basically, I think about that a lot and how we can communicate to creatives that boundaries are important because it is like one of our like, being boss principle, this idea of boundaries. So how do we help them work smarter, not harder, without, without scaring the shit out of them?

Kathleen Shannon 2:53
Well, I've been thinking a lot, my boundaries have been tested. Since growing being boss, we've been able to create work that is getting in front of a lot of people. And with that, I get a lot more emails, I get a lot of people wanting things from me. And I like to give them everything I can lately. And you've actually had to help me kind of create some more firm boundaries for myself, because I'll just give and give and give until I have nothing left to give. And that's not going to help anybody that's not going to be productive for my family, for my boss community, or for myself. So I've been thinking a lot lately about boundaries being you know, boundaries are only as clear as the line that you draw, right. And so I need to draw some clear lines for myself. But then I've also been thinking about how I communicate that line to other people. Because if my lines are blurry, no one including myself is going to know where my boundaries are. So that's what I've been thinking a lot about.

Emily Thompson 4:01
So lots about boundaries. I think I think we can both agree, though, that like these are important, like creating boundaries for yourself is how you're able to get things done. And for you, it definitely has been around like how much you're giving, like we've been, we've built being boss on a platform of giving it all away for free from our own podcast and our blog, to like freebies that we put out on our blog, like all the things but if we give everything a you said something to me the other day that like really hit home, we were talking about like our really your engagement in the Facebook group, and even like slack groups and emails and all of those things and you said, I feel like I am more available to our community than I am my own child. And I was like hot damn honey, we need to create some boundaries for you so that you are working more comfortably and you're giving energy where you need to give energy in a mindful way as opposed to just spreading it out into the world impact

Unknown Speaker 5:03

Kathleen Shannon 5:07
So I feel like that's something I would have said, impact. Work harder,

Unknown Speaker 5:12
not smarter, smarter, not

Unknown Speaker 5:13
harder. Right?

Kathleen Shannon 5:16
boundaries, right? Okay. So one of the places after we had that conversation that I immediately put a boundary in place and might be applicable to our listeners is, I was hanging out in Facebook a lot, and maybe just kind of having it on in the background, checking it here. And there, I was kind of doing that thing where every time I open a new browser, I would start to instantly hit that. Like, we're, you know, I automatic Yeah, oh, there. So I created some boundaries for myself, as far as my Facebook engagement goes, which I still don't necessarily think is a bad thing. And that's something I'm going to talk about too is, you really have to test your boundaries to find where you draw the line. And so I've been running a few experiments and running a few tests, whenever it comes to my boundaries on Facebook,

Emily Thompson 6:04
that's adorable, Kathleen, thank you.

Kathleen Shannon 6:08
Taking some all Emily Thompson advice into my life and how I how I'm going to be boss. So um, I've been testing my boundaries. And instead of hanging out in Facebook, you know, having it on in the background, a few hours a day or even on my phone, I've really decided to make myself more accessible to our community by doing more Facebook Live. And I want to do it on a really consistent basis. So they're actually getting more of me, and the best of me, whenever I can show up live, and for 10 minutes, tell them really what I've been thinking about, and really what I've been learning and sharing some of my best advice or stories for the week. So I've really been testing that out. And I really like it because I feel like I'm giving what I want to give. But I'm not feeling spread thin, it takes 10 minutes of my day, and then 10 minutes of like really focused energy, that is so much more leverageable. Like now with a Facebook Live post, we can do some advertising from it, we can share what we've been working on and direct people to other things that we're creating. So for me, it's kind of thinking about leverage, and what can I have more leverage and impact in rather than kind of just more spending more time on something.

Emily Thompson 7:28
I love that because then that really helps reframe, I think for the creative brain, that's all pissed off about the idea of boundaries, where whenever you create boundaries around one thing, whenever you're boxing something in, you're able to like open doors on other things. So you know, if you are spending all of your time on Facebook, like what could you be spending your time doing that could be more impactful than the thing that you're doing right now. And Facebook, I feel like it's going to be something we get that gets brought up a whole lot. Because I think a lot of people who do online business have a really hard time with like the social media suck, where you get on to just like, and I'm so guilty of this, I don't even use Facebook guys, like I built some hardcore boundaries on Facebook, like three years ago, I don't have the app on my phone. I don't get on it when I sit down, but I will. I do still have the habit of typing into any browser, even though I haven't like I don't do it. But I sit down and start typing it almost every time it is in my brain.

Kathleen Shannon 8:31
It's crazy. It is crazy.

Emily Thompson 8:32
And I think about that in Etsy, I still get to Etsy and like, I haven't had an Etsy shop in like five years. And I still do it at Etsy, Facebook, those are my two and then I'm like, No, I want to go to co schedule or I want to go to like whatever it is. Um, so building some boundaries around something like Facebook. Oh, I was talking about how whenever I go to Facebook, because I want to check on the beating boss page or whatever, I still find myself just scrolling down. And I was telling someone the other day like with one hand that I'm scrolling down, I'm like closing the window with my left hand because like I can't, I can't not look and get sucked in. So creating some hardcore boundaries around something that you do see as a time suck, such as Facebook can give you the opportunity to do much more impactful things elsewhere. And so for you it's still on Facebook that you do that and still nurturing that community, which I think is great. But you're not just like trolling the Facebook group, which is not always

Kathleen Shannon 9:33
that has a different connotation. No, I like I'm going in there just being snarky and

Emily Thompson 9:38
right now it's still true like you're just looking you're just looking by screenshotting some shit and send it to me No, you don't really do.

Kathleen Shannon 9:46
The thing is is that you know if I'm in there commenting, even if I'm commenting on a post, now I'm getting alerts every time that post comments so it just kind of becomes this snowball. Seeing yeah Totally, I've noticed, you know, I think that because you've kind of given up Facebook, you're really quick to tell me to give it up or to be like, you know, for me to create as firm boundaries as you have. But my boundaries are a little bit different than your boundaries. So I really go back to the idea of creating boundaries to be creative in. So I started to give myself the boundary of Okay, I can only spend, let's say 15 minutes a week and Facebook, what would that look like? How do I have the most impact there. And that's where I really started to get creative with my limitations, I decided to do a Facebook Live post in the being boss group, sorry, not in the being boss group on the being boss page. So two separate things. Now, if you guys haven't added the being boss page, feel free to check that out. I am Facebook leaving there every Tuesday, I'm trying to do it at 1pm Central time anyway. And I got really creative with my boundaries. And this is a practice that really started or that I really started to notice in the creative process whenever I was in art school. So I learned in art school how to be really creative by giving yourself boundaries, it's whenever you give yourself projects, and oh, I find this happens with freelancers who might not have the work that they want yet, but are building up their portfolio, sometimes they'll try and give themselves creative hypothetical projects. And it never works. Whenever the sky's the limit, you have nothing to push your creativity against, you have nothing to really give you that traction that your creativity truly craves. So I love boundaries, because I think that it gives you more opportunity to really get creative and flourish within them. Um, so obviously, you know, we're talking about boundaries to the like, really logistical boundaries, like close the office door whenever you leave work. Or maybe don't give your clients your cell phone numbers so that they can text you. But today, I'm really interested in getting into those more subtle boundaries, and really an even like energetic boundaries, and really figuring out what it looks like to refine your boundaries. I mean, this is something that we were just talking about earlier today was really refining our processes, and creating iterations of different projects. And I think that boundaries play a big role in that.

Emily Thompson 12:32
Yeah, I think boundaries no matter what they are, it all comes from self awareness and knowing what it is that you need to get the job done, and boxing it in so that you're not tempted to wander. Because it's especially as you know, a self employed greed of working at home, the temptation to wander is certainly there. But if you've given yourself some structure and said, You know, I'm gonna work on this thing, you know, within this timeframe, or I'm going to, I'm going to work with a client this way, because I know it's how I'm going to get the job done, or whatever it may be having boundaries like that really allow you to be good at what you do. And I think I think this is where, like, the creative needs to reconcile that creative side of themselves, with the entrepreneurial side of themselves. That's where they have to come together, it's being creative within those boundaries. Without them you're just a creative and like, potentially a starving artist because you don't know how to monetize and rein it in and focus and, and do the work. But you're also not the entrepreneur who's like, you know, a 60 year old CEO who hates his like, life and job because he never got to do the creative thing that he wanted to do. Like it was all boundaries, and like, in goals without any feeling in it. So I think that, that this is the middle place, it's where you, it's where you find what works for you. And it's about being really mindful and self aware, and knowing what it is that you need to get the job done. And creating those boundaries and then doing the work. But I also think that sometimes it's about breaking them when you want to.

Kathleen Shannon 14:15
So I had a huge aha moment. Yes. saying this. Yeah, goals. Goals are boundaries. So he just gave Yeah, right. Yeah, you like that? You like that? So we just gave a big talk at venture pop in New Orleans, all about goals. And we were talking about like goals are and what goals are not. So goals are not necessarily values, or intentions or even vision. Goals are the things that you are working for. It's what you really want. And so goals help you create boundaries that will help you stay on the path toward what you're working for. So I love this idea of really reframing goals. And really, you know, one of the things that we talked about is that whenever you have very specific goals, you're able to make decisions a lot faster because you know exactly where you're going. So I love the idea of thinking that goals themselves is, as a boundary creator.

Emily Thompson 15:21
It is. One of the great things about goals is, is that it really helps you focus in and again, creative brain all the things What do you want to do everything we get it, we've been there, but with a goal, you run everything through the filter of like, will this help me reach my goal and if you want to, like have a you know, beautiful watercolor calendar to sell by the end of December, but right now you're also thinking about, you know, knitting a new scarf for your aunt, like not something that's going to help you reach your goals. So let's focus in and so you do you are you're creating boundaries for yourself, so that you can work within them to like, weasel you into the goal that you always will is not the best word for that. But you know, you know what I mean? where like, it's going to get you to that place that you want to be without, without allowing you to steer off course. So I think I think that's I like that little insight, Kathleen, good job, huh?

Kathleen Shannon 16:18
Thank Good job.

Emily Thompson 16:21
So let's talk about putting them in place like how do you go about putting boundaries in place. And with this, like whole new insight, I think it starts with knowing what you want,

Kathleen Shannon 16:30
totally with knowing what you want. And I have a few different thoughts around really figuring out what it is that you want. I have like lots of different exercises and worksheets on that. So one of my favorite ones is the ideal day. And we'll be sure to include that worksheet in our show notes. And if you're already subscribed to our newsletter, we'll send that out to you. But recently in our talk, so Okay, the idea of the ideal day is to really visualize what it is that you want on the daily from start to finish. And really thinking about your day, if if everything if every circumstance is set up, so that your life is pretty much perfection. What does that look like? So what does your house look like? What is your wardrobe look like? What are your clients look like? What are the conversations that you're having? What kind of work are you doing? What is it that you're known for? So this is the idea behind ideal day, and it's a really great way to really uncover what it is that you want. I recently decided to put a twist on this exercise by really thinking about what makes you jealous. So whenever you think about, maybe your Instagram feed, for example, there is probably at least one or two people on there that make you totally jealous, because maybe they're always going to a new place. They're traveling the world, maybe they're celebrating their launches, and it makes you feel like they're having way more successful business plans and launches than you are. But really, what it's showing you is that you need maybe a little bit more travel or a little bit more adventure or a little bit more celebration in your life. And I don't think that you necessarily need to hold off on feeling those goals before you're able to reach them. And we can talk more about that. But I think that you get it like if you want more adventure, find adventure in your backyard. If you want more celebration, what's stopping you from celebrating now? Nothing. So you just got to do the work to be who it is that you want to be. But for me, I've just been thinking a lot about once you know what you want? How do you really communicate that? So I think that that's something that I've always been really good in my business. And it's how we've gotten to where we are now is that I'm able to tell people exactly what it is that I want, how it is I want to work with them what it is that I want to create or do and then we do it. But lately I've been having a little bit of a harder time communicating my boundaries, probably because my boundaries are a little bit blurry. So

Emily Thompson 19:16
I love what you just said about like working with clients just to touch on that for a second because one of the things that I found hugely in my businesses and as I've transitioned from, or really, as I transitioned from regular web designer to doing these really specific Indi boom engagements, what it really became about was processes and processes and systems in terms of how I work with my clients is what made that engagement so much better. And what the reason why those systems and processes made it so much better was because those were the things that got results, period. If I didn't follow that system, I could not guarantee results like it's all about Mmm

Kathleen Shannon 19:57
hmm. Those systems helped you communicate Get your boundaries.

Emily Thompson 20:01
Yes. And whenever you have those things in place, you know how to communicate them. And either a client will follow them and you'll get results, or they won't, and you won't get results. But then you can also push them and show them everything and like, then they know whose fault it was. It was not yours, it was theirs.

Kathleen Shannon 20:20
Alright, fault aside, let's talk about systems that really help you communicate boundaries. So one of my first systems, whenever it comes to client work that I have is a contract an invoice. So these are the first two steps, the first two systems that definitely communicate boundaries. So in my contract, I always include the deliverables, here's exactly what you're getting the cost, here's how much it costs, the payment schedule, here's when you owe me money, and then the meeting timelines. So I always establish my meetings right off the bat. And I think that getting really clear about these four things from the very beginning, eliminate no shows, it eliminates people jumping out on their invoices or not paying this is definitely a system that has really helped me get a lot of clarity, not only in what I'm offering, but in what my client can expect to get and when they can expect to get it. So another boundary is that I'm putting everything in my Google Calendar. I recently picked up acuity scheduling, and they were a sponsor early in our show. And they're helping us out again, in January.

Emily Thompson 21:42
We still talking about them, though, because we love them,

Kathleen Shannon 21:45
because we love them. So acuity has partnered with us and they are not sponsoring this show. But if you go to acuity scheduling.com, slash being boss, you can try a free trial of it. And I really started using acuity really to hold myself accountable to my own boundaries. So one thing that I found that I was doing and a boundary that I was constantly crossing, no matter how many rules I tried to put in place for myself, was scheduling boundaries. And I was just like overbooking myself all the time, there are days you guys where I have three to four meetings a day. And there was never any time to actually do the work. Now granted, a lot of my work now includes these meetings and recording podcasts and, and that sort of thing. But it was just too much. So acuity scheduling has really helped me hold myself accountable to when I'm available, and when I'm not available, even whenever I want to break my rules. So that's been super duper helpful. And then, of course, freshbooks, who has been a longtime sponsor of our podcast, as well, and you guys, were not just touting these, because they have sponsored the podcast, they really are systems that we use. And so freshbooks has helped me get over my money boundaries. And money is a source of constant insecurities for creative entrepreneurs. It's awkward to talk about it, sometimes it can feel funny to ask for money. But whenever you have a system in place, you're able to uphold those boundaries and avoid future resentment because you're getting paid. What other like systems? Do you use Emily for boundaries in your business?

Emily Thompson 23:29
I think for me, oh, nine these days. Because you know, not doing one on ones. It's not even. It's not okay, much of a thing.

Kathleen Shannon 23:40
Let's talk about internal team boundaries, because you actually have some really good boundaries that you've put in place there as far as communication. So, for example, I have maybe slapped you stuff like, Hey, we need to get this done. And you'll say put it in Asana. So Asana is the project management software that we use. And so your boundary that you communicated to me there is that it's not going to get done if it's not in our task flow

Emily Thompson 24:06
a man. Right. So yeah, that's that's really, that's really where my focus is these days, these days is in like a team side boundaries and how it is that we get things done. And again, it's about like looking at what you want to get done and finding the way that it's going to get done, and making it a non negotiable boundary. So one of those is like, Don't email me, like if you're on my team, and you shoot me an email, like, I'm going to like yell back at you. Because one of the things that is a struggle in our business says is our inbox and how many things are in there. So if our team can we can communicate without using the inbox, then life is going to be significantly easier, which is why we created slack or we can have those internal conversations without ever touching each other's inbox, which has been really huge for us. But slack is not the best place for us to talk about, like what needs to be done, because then chatter starts happening. And then it was like four scrolls ago that we got asked to do this thing. So if you want something done, go put it in Asana and assign it to the person who used to do it. So creating some boundaries around those things, but also some systems to like, make it do like what happens if you want to task something, go to Asana and task It is really how we've created boundaries that help us be really efficient and productive. Without them, like we'd just be running amuck, nothing would get done, everything would be lost, like this podcast would not be happening right now without some like clear boundaries, we have this goal in mind, of working smarter, not harder. And so it took some really hardcore boundaries, and using some using some nice software out there that allows us to reach those goals, to really help us stay on track. And also so that everyone can be on the same page. So if you have, you know, if you're working with people, like within your team, or maybe you're still at your day job or whatever, like, look around with the systems that you have for communicating for getting the things done that make the will turn, and if they work high five, and they don't work, create boundaries, make make plans for how things happen, that's a really powerful thing. It's not just about like, and it's not just about teamwork, as well think about how you made yourself like, Where are you keeping things if you keep within I'm so guilty of this, listen to me, if you keep things in a notebook, but also have an Evernote in the house, I have a notebook by your bed, and then you have this notebook you keep in your pocket.

Kathleen Shannon 26:48
You know what I don't necessarily think that that's a sign that boundaries aren't in place. But I do want to talk about a few simple well,

Emily Thompson 26:56
and you can have those but I think having a system for what happens whenever it's something becomes becomes an implementable idea. Like when whenever it's time for it to go off of the notebook in your pocket, and to your team, or to like your task list for the month or whatever it may be. There's systems for that, like if you nothing's ever going to get done, if it stays in my notebook by my bed like that, he

Kathleen Shannon 27:19
it's funny that you say that because I've had the opposite experience lately, I found that tasks in Asana become that I mean, there's so many of them, that I almost became paralyzed by all the to dues. So I had to bring my tasks back into my notebook. So I can have almost a mind body connection of what it is I need to do. So the boundaries of a notebook are actually helping me stay more focused around launch. And this is definitely getting a task and it is is going

Emily Thompson 27:51
also back to being self aware. And it's about being the boundaries for yourself, that will actually help you because my boundaries, obviously you're not your boundaries. And like, they're not any like they're my boundaries. And they work for me, because I'm an individual human being with my own needs and expectations.

Kathleen Shannon 28:10
And as business partners, though, we are aware of each other's boundaries. So I think that I know that you need it in Asana and i think that you know, that I might need to talk it through for a second or that you might need to shoot me a slack reminding me that my task is in Asana. So right, we're also hyper aware of each other's boundaries. And when we might be crossing each other's boundaries, or like, even sometimes if I shoot you a text as a friend, I'm like, Hey, this is a friend text, not a work to write. But um, I think that one thing that I really want to look at here in this episode is when boundaries are being crossed, and how to identify that. So I think in work, if you're dropping the ball, if things that you've wanted to create haven't been created, you might not have boundaries in place. For me earlier, you were talking about how I admitted that I've become more available to my work and to people who aren't even necessarily clients, but just in the being boss community than I am to my own family. And the way that I learned that that boundary had been crossed, is I learned that well, one I was maybe getting a little bit short with my child who is two years old, like I can't expect him to be rational. But if I've already given away all my patients to handling you know, customer service issues, or answering client or sorry, list answering listener questions in an email, then it's not giving me much left for my family and then also realizing that like my husband and sister were trying not to bother me with their, with their topics of conversation or issues or needs because they knew they knew that I already giving so much of myself to my work and my listeners that they didn't want to bother me. And that's a problem. They, they should come first, right? It's my business partner, my sister and my husband, those people come first. So for me, I really had to get clear about some boundaries by going back to Bernie Browns tool have that one inch square. So if you guys haven't listened to episode number 42, we interviewed Bernie Brown, and she talks about creating some boundaries around who you give your energy to by drawing a one inch square. And literally writing the names of people who matter in that one is square. And it's not that the people outside of that square don't matter. But if I don't have enough time, for the most important people in my life, or they feel like I like them talking to me is an inconvenience, because I'm already so spread thin. That's a problem boundaries have been crossed. So what about you? Like when? When do you When do you recognize that your boundaries have been crossed?

Emily Thompson 31:02
Usually the same, like being really self aware as to like how other people are treating me. And like if things have changed, and I know that I've changed, which means my boundaries aren't working for me anymore, that I need to put some more in place. But I'm also I can, I also tend to be pretty self aware on like, the immediate standpoint of like, someone sending me an email is immediately going to bristle me, or, you know, two days in Oh, oh, here's a good one. legitimately, recently, my fingertips became bruised, because I had spent a month working on the weekends, like not even like all week, and not going outside of my like desire to weekly hourly work. But it was it was creeping into my Saturdays and Sundays, you know, writing a blog post here or writing a newsletter there or whatever it may be. And because I went so many days, without so many days on the computer, like typing, I had not given my fingertips a break, my fingertips became bruised. Like that was a pretty self aware moment where I realized that I had overstepped my own boundaries of I don't work on the weekends, to doing it long enough that I was causing physical harm to myself. And that was so jacked up. So now like, now I get to step back and refocus my boundaries. Like I don't care what's due. Like, this is just a website. It's just a podcast, I got like, I'm not gonna work on the weekends, because if I can't type during the week is not worth me trying to type on the weekend. So I think, again, being super software, seeing where things are not happy in your life, if things are not going the way you want them to go. Stop, assess the situation and create boundaries that will get you back on track to getting you where you need to go. All right,

Kathleen Shannon 33:05
I want to talk a little bit about energetic boundaries because I have something to confess.

Emily Thompson 33:13
What Kathleen

Kathleen Shannon 33:16
so I think that everyone knows I'm quite the extrovert. But I feel like I've been having kind of more introverted, introverted tendencies lately. And I noticed this adventure pop.

Emily Thompson 33:32
So I noticed it for months, but continue.

Kathleen Shannon 33:36
Well, then this is a good thing about having a business bestie and people close to you is that sometimes they can see your boundaries before you can. But I found that, um, I've been running out of steam a lot sooner than I used to. And so recently at venture pop, we had done a photo shoot, we gave a talk. And then we had an after party at a hotel, we got a tarot reader. It was amazing. We had so much fun, but we were doing a lot of engagement over the span of 24 hours. Like it was a lot. And by the end of it, I couldn't. I couldn't really I was having a hard time engaging in small talk. I was really tired and started feeling really foggy. I thought I meant throw up at some point. Maybe this was just from having too much alcohol and not eating enough food. Maybe you're just hungry. Maybe I'm not an introvert. I think I was just hungry.

Emily Thompson 34:36
No, no, this is no this is really something that I've noticed quite a bit in you and it's because we work together quite a lot and I never really wanted to break it to you because I know how much you love being an extrovert. But like, I am an introvert but like when I can hold my own like it doesn't bother me like I'm totally fucking engaged until I'm done. And then I I'm done. And you're usually done well before I am, like well before I am I getting of multiple occasions where like I know that you've checked out and I'm well we're gonna keep it going until Kathleen gonna eat. But there's definitely a thing and I think I'm glad that you maybe it was actually me who brought it up. So maybe it is that to create boundaries you need people in your life to help you recognize recognize that things are changing. So you now realizing that maybe you're an introvert, how does that change it? Like the energetic boundaries that you want to create for yourself? Well, I

Kathleen Shannon 35:41
think that it will change how I communicate. And for me, I don't know, I mean, does it? Does it mean that I'm incredibly honest with people and just say, I've hit a wall? And I can't answer your question. I mean, is that what that looks like? And then I started to feel bad, like, Oh, my gosh, am I am I not giving enough of myself? Or what if they think I'm rude and, and I know that there are a lot of people who are like, I give zero fucks what anybody thinks, but I actually really do care what people think, especially if they're within my community. So I think that though, I've always said the kind thing, the kindest thing you can do is communicate your boundaries and be firm with them. Like there is this time that my sister told me she is working with a consultant who is a speaker, and who would be consulting all day, and he would straight up tell people, hey, don't talk to me at lunch, because I'm tired. And everyone's super respected it. So I think I need to find a way to communicate my boundaries or eliminate the need to communicate them by just not scheduling as many things in one day as I used to. So like maybe having a photoshoot, a talk, and then an after party all in one day, and not to mention

Emily Thompson 36:55
dinner and a walk up the quarter. And we had spent the entire day together. That was also I think, the morning where we woke up at like 6am and immediately started talking business before we got out of bed.

Kathleen Shannon 37:07
But that's the thing I could have continued talking to you. Like, we could go back to the hotel room and keep chatting. And it's fine. Right? I think that it's, um, you know, having to, I think it was like the small talk that was starting to drain me because like, I can see when I had come up to me and started talking about like, I don't know, religion, or politics. I've been like, yes, I'm in let's do this thing. But um, I didn't have it in me to really fuel the conversation or keep it going. So anyway, I think that for me, it really is about communicating my boundaries, or setting it up in advance that I know my limits and not extending myself past my limits.

Emily Thompson 37:53
So yet again, being self aware, like it always comes back to being self aware and being okay with drawing the line cuz like even, like, I can absolutely imagine you in the future being a little too apologetic for needing to walk away. And I don't think it's something that you have to be apologetic about, like, if you have just given yourself for four hours. That sounds really gross, but you know what I mean, then, like it's okay to just say, you know what, I need a moment or go to the bathroom and lock yourself in a stall for 20 minutes, and everyone's just going to assume you ate too much tuna tar tar, but maybe it's fine. Um, I think I think those are perfectly perfectly reasonable things do I think that you can certainly move ahead with all things without being apologetic, apologetic about it or even needing to explain it too much like, this is just me I'm gonna take a moment I was the very same night or is the evening of like our being boss meet up and I was taking our bags upstairs like someone even told me I can't remember who it was. Now as I was like, tapping out to pretty hardcore. They told me like, you know, you just go upstairs and like you just take as long as you need. Like, I didn't even need to say it and at that time, I didn't even need it. But like people are really aware that not everyone is made to go and go and go and go. And even I don't know even like family things like I'm one of those people that like I go to go to a family reunion and an hour and a half and I'm done. Like that kind of engagement on a whole other level will drain me faster than any boss ever will. So I don't know just being really self aware and knowing like when to say see and being unapologetic about it and there's nothing wrong with that. But placing those boundaries on yourself are how you can maintain a quality engagement as opposed to getting yourself to a place my thing with with like meeting people like that, doing events or or like going to like business engagements is I have Like my own like little personal, not really mantra but like personal goal, where I never want to be the person that someone meets. That's one of those like, never meet your your role model sort of things like I never want people to meet me and go, Oh my god, I wish I hadn't met her because it totally ruined it for me. Well, you know,

Kathleen Shannon 40:18
if I think about that too much, I think that I would never

Emily Thompson 40:22
know it's super empowering to me super. Because like, then I can go into any engagement thinking, all right, like, I am going to give us all what I've got. I'm gonna be super smiley and inquisitive and really caring. And it also makes me like mindfully remember people's name. I'm like, Okay, I have to remember this chick's name, which is like one of my, like, that's a weakness of mine. I suck at remembering names, like on a deep, like crazy level.

Kathleen Shannon 40:48
But whenever I would, it is people who are more artistic or have like artistic backgrounds and are more right brained? Not that I think that we're a little bit I think that we both are both right brain and left brain, right. But I've heard that artistic people, maybe that's just an excuse to have a harder time remembering names, because they're soaking up everything else. Around the situation that like just a name is really hard to remember.

Emily Thompson 41:15
I okay, so Lily is the same way she poor kid cannot remember, remember a name for shit. It is one of the most hysterical things when we have to like practice with her all the time. Because it's too many times she's called people the wrong name. And like she doesn't get it, she doesn't get why it's like offensive or weird. It's funny anyway, I totally could see that. But, but it is something where it makes me go into engagements more engaged, like really just wanting to be the person that I am. And that people see and they see it because this is who I am. because too many times I've met internet people who were really disappointing in person, and whether it was because they were already like disengaged, or like too introverted and needed to cut it off at some point and hadn't yet or like weren't that self aware, and, and had set those boundaries for themselves that they were like really sticking to them. It makes me want to be much more mindful and present, but like, okay to walk away when it's time because I don't want to be disappointment. I want people to see the best me,

Kathleen Shannon 42:19
this is making me recognize that boundaries and expectations super go hand in hand, right. And so for me, I've created an entire business around personal branding. And that's part of expectations and making sure that who you are on the inside matches up with who you are on the outside, and who you are online matches up with who you are offline. That stuff is super important to me, as well. But hopefully, I don't actually overthink that too much about, you know, how am I showing up? I think because I have been confident enough in that like I am who I am 100% of the time. And there's probably been moments on this podcast where I'm like, I'm done. I've hit a wall. And I think that we've been really transparent in showing all of not all of who we are obviously like we can't show 100% of who we are you would if you could I would if I could you guys. So all of this I'm I'm really excited about thinking about the fact that goals are boundaries, and what that means for how I get more structure around my goals, and communicate my goals. And I think that's really exciting,

Emily Thompson 43:42
right? And it even makes me vague about like client work, like clients hire you for a goal. And like if those boundaries will help you reach that goal. That's even like a whole other way of reframing like No, I won't give you my cell phone number. Because that will you having my cell phone number will not help you reach your goal of like having this like ideal, like engagement or whatever. Feel like that is going to be big. Oh, I like it.

Kathleen Shannon 44:08
I like it a lot. All right. So what's one thing or two things that we can give people like homework to do to help them be more boss when it comes to their boundaries?

Emily Thompson 44:19
I think you find something in your life that isn't sitting quite right with you. Like is it your relationship with someone? Is it someone like in your family? Or is it a client or a customer or, you know, whatever it is, um, or maybe it's with yourself even or your business of pick something of all those things that isn't sitting quite right with you and test a boundary that will get you on the right path with that thing. And give it a go for a minute and see if it works. If it doesn't try another boundary if it does. Keep at it.

Kathleen Shannon 45:01
I think that mine is probably comes from a breed exercise, which is literally called line in the sand, draw a line down a sheet of paper and on the left hand side, right I am and on the right hand side, right? I am not. And this can be a total brain dump. It can be philosophical, it can be tactical, you can get as practical or conceptual as you would like, and just start to fill it out like what are you and what are you not? And is there anything that you filled out on the I am side that you're not showing up for? And is there anything that you're writing down on the I am not side that is creeping into your life. And this will help you kind of see where you're crossing boundaries. And it might help you get less blurry about those lines, because again, boundaries are only as clear as the line that you draw

Emily Thompson 45:52
a man

Kathleen Shannon 45:54
so what's the secret to being boss? The secret is that there is no secret. There is no single formula course or book that will teach you what you need to know in order to have anything and everything you want.

Emily Thompson 46:08
But here's what we've learned along the way. Being boss is setting up a solid foundation built on intention. It's understanding how to define success on your terms. It's committing to big ask goals. And it's breaking those big ass goals down into small actionable steps.

Kathleen Shannon 46:27
It's about making faster decisions, trusting yourself to see it through enjoying the process along the way, knowing how to measure what's working and what isn't. And surrounding yourself with smart, ambitious friends along the way. Those are the secrets to how bosses get what they want.

Emily Thompson 46:45
We know you want an online business that allows you to make money doing what you love, and boss we've got you. The beam boss clubhouse is where we teach you how to be boss of your life and work.

Kathleen Shannon 46:56
The being boss clubhouse is a two day online real time retreat, followed by 12 months of ongoing community support, monthly master classes and secret podcast episodes. We're only accepting 25 members for our next online retreat. Learn more and apply to join at being boss club slash clubhouse. Thank you for listening to being boss. Please be sure to visit our website at being boss club where you can find Show Notes for this episode. Listen to past episodes and discover more of our content that will help you be boss in work and life. Did you like this episode, please share it with a friend and show some love by leaving a rating and review on

Emily Thompson 47:37
iTunes. Do the work for you boss and we'll see you next week.