Finding the Confidence to Invest in Your Business with Talia Chai

Kathleen Shannon 0:04
Get your business together, get yourself into what you do, and see it through.

Emily Thompson 0:10
Because being boss is hard when you work and life is messy, making your dream job of your own isn't easy.

Unknown Speaker 0:18
But getting paid for it, becoming known for it. And

Emily Thompson 0:21
finding purpose in it is so doable if you do the work, being boss, a podcast for creative entrepreneurs from Emily Thompson and Kathleen Shannon, welcome to episode number 22. going from zero to launch with our guest Talia Chai. This episode is brought to you by fresh books cloud accounting.

Unknown Speaker 0:43
Hey guys,

Unknown Speaker 0:44
hi, Talia. Hello, good

Kathleen Shannon 0:47
to see you. So everyone, Talia is actually a great method and indie boom client. A lot of you have been asking what it is that Emily and I actually do. And whenever we're not sitting here recording a podcast, which seems like we're recording a podcast every day these days. And so we wanted to talk to you a little bit about what our process is like. But we wanted to do it by actually introducing you to our dream client, Talia Chai. And Talia is an expert in skincare and nutrition. And she I mean, so I was just telling telling you before we got on the call that Emily and I have been talking to lots of really talented and experienced creative entrepreneurs. So chalene Johnson has been in the business for 20 years. Paul Jarvis is a total rock star. And Danielle chrissa, the jealous curator, these are just a few of the people that have been on our podcast who are rocking it, and they're in it. But we really wanted to introduce you to someone who has really just level up their game, and is just launched her own website and brand last December. And so that's December 2014. So even if she's just two steps ahead of you, we wanted you to get to know Talia and what she's doing and how she's kind of making it work in the very beginning phases of creative entrepreneurship. So Talia Hi,

Talia Chai 2:19
Hello.

Emily Thompson 2:21
I'm so glad you're here.

Talia Chai 2:23
I'm really excited to be here with both of you.

Kathleen Shannon 2:25
Well, thanks for joining us.

Emily Thompson 2:27
You're a fun one. We're gonna have fun with this.

Kathleen Shannon 2:29
Are you? Our guest but it's fun to see Italia It feels like reconnecting with an old friend. Yes. And so tell us tell our listeners like a little bit about, well tell us what you're doing that like what is your expertise? What are you doing and tell us a little bit about the path that has gotten you to where you are right now?

Talia Chai 2:50
Well, in terms of what I'm doing now, I work as a nutritionist, and a beauty, health and lifestyle coach. And I work with people who want to make their lives as amazing as possible by improving their health and their lifestyles and their routines and their habits. Because everything adds up. And it's all really, really important. And that's honestly my greatest passion. And I'm also a healthy chef. So I went to a plant based culinary school and I tie in healthy cooking and all that into everything because it's all connected to eating. And my journey. I mean, I I was thinking about this. And I feel like I've had an entrepreneurial spirit. My entire life. If I really think about it, I've always wanted to do things on my own. I've always I've never been afraid of being different. I always almost felt good when I was different. Like it got me really excited. So I don't know, I studied acting as my undergrad degree. And then I decided that wasn't what I wanted to do anymore. And I did a lot of soul searching to get me to where I am from that point till now. And I knew that health was a huge passion of mine. So I went back to school to become a nutritionist. And then I knew I wanted to become a real expert in how to teach people to make really healthy delicious food. Those practical skills so I went to culinary school after that. And then I experimented I experimented. I started my first business in 2013. So it really wasn't that long ago. And it was called chef Talia. And if you go to Chef talia.com it's now like a Japanese porn site or something like that. Because I don't have I got rid of the domain and now I'm like, I'm embarrassed to say that that was that has nothing to do with me anymore. on a whim and I was like chef tire that's gonna be my branding. And I built my own website on WordPress and it was very like basic, basic. I have no skills in that department, but I just wanted to do it and I was a cooking instructor. And that was my whole thing. But then after about a year, we're less than a year of doing that I realized it was it wasn't the right brand. For me, it wasn't the right business because it was putting me in this very confined box where, obviously chef tell you it was everything, just food and cooking related. And I knew I loved working with clients one on one and helping them with their health. And I loved the beauty, the clean beauty aspects and all of the natural green beauty products coming about. And I love the lifestyle elements of being healthy. And I wanted to feel like I had the right within my brand in my business to talk about all of that. So I knew I needed to scratch half Talia and I knew that I needed a new business and a new platform to showcase like everything that I loved and help people in every way that I could.

Kathleen Shannon 5:49
So I feel like there's this fine line between something that Emily and I preach a lot, which is just get it out there. Like just go do it. But then also, we're also at the same time preaching, invest in yourself and do it right from the beginning. I think that there's a little bit of both. So I'm curious whenever you launched chef Talia, and then you decide to scrap that and go through the branding process with braid creative with me and my sister and our team, and then in be boom with Emily and her team. And did. I'm curious, did you have any regret? Or were you like, Oh, I should have just held off? Or were you glad that you went ahead and did chef Talia and kind of leaned into it.

Talia Chai 6:31
I was 100% glad that I did the chef Talia thing. I was fresh out of Connery school. I knew it was what I needed to do at the time. And I gained a lot of amazing skills, getting comfortable doing cooking demos, doing cooking classes, which are things that I still want to do now. And sometimes I think that you need to oversee an idea and just do it. If that's what you're passionate about at that time. And you're still like finding yourself and you're still young within your experience in your business. Like I think it's good to try those things out. I didn't make any crazy financial investments into chef tally or anything like that I did everything on my own. So I didn't feel like I lost anything monetarily. And I think what was important about that experience, the reason that I don't regret it is because I learned pretty quickly like I tried to be very self aware throughout the process, so that I learned very quickly. I like this, but it's not it. And now I'm ready. And because I kind of done things on my own. And given it a try and felt like what it was like, I think that helped me get the confidence to hire you guys. Because I was like, okay, I've done this on my own, I did a quantum in the amateur way, I figured out a lot. But now I'm ready to take it to like the real level, the next level where I'm actually making money. And this is actually a real business. And I knew that I couldn't do that on my own. I knew that I needed help to do that with braid, creative and indie boom,

Kathleen Shannon 7:59
I never thought that it might take confidence to hire us like I just that never factored in, I'm gonna have to think about that a little bit when it comes to reaching our dream customers. Because a lot of times I think that what I do, and what Emily does is help give people confidence. So it's cool to hear that there's a certain level of confidence that needs to be in place to even come into this process. Totally.

Emily Thompson 8:23
So I want to talk about I want to talk more about like that decision. Like the decision that you made, the moment when you realize that chef tell you wasn't going to be it for you. And that you did need to invest in your business to get you where you want it to be. So do you recall a point where you were looking at your non porn chatelier site? Free porn. Yeah. And porn.

Yes, yes. At your food porn site. And, and you recognize like, this is the point where I need to change what do you have that point?

Talia Chai 9:01
When I knew chefs how it wasn't gonna work anymore. I don't remember the exact moment but I'm kind of laughing on the inside because I remember the moment when I knew that I was going to create a lifestyle brand. I was in the bathtub, and I was journaling, like furiously I'm like all my ideas. I was like I've been doing a lot of work on myself to get to that point. And I just remember I was like, doing I need to do this and you do that and it was all these lifestyle elements. And I This is so embarrassing, but I remember I started I broke out into song and I started singing. The hills are alive with the sound of music. This is so embarrassing. I like I could laugh and cry at the same time but this actually happened I was like, This is what I need to do like this is going to be my thing and it all makes sense and everything I've done is brought me to this exact moment and I literally person. This is my old theater side bursting into musical songs. And dance in the bathtub. But I remember that moment very clearly. I mean, and then that point, once I realized that this was my business, that confidence, like you were saying, Kathleen did, it really helped me to want to make an investment in it, because I was so sure. Where's what chef Taiyo wasn't sure. Like, I was like, I'll just try it out. Like it was a younger thing. But with this, I was like, No, I've tried other things. And I feel very confident that this is it. So when I came across any boom, which later introduced me to braid on, it felt, I mean, it was a big investment. So that it took me a while to meet to be sure about that, just because it's a huge commitment. It's a huge leap of faith. And I, there's risk, there's risk involved with any, any investment. So I really had to think about it for a while. And I went back and forth a million times. And I really tried to make like a wise decision. But I knew I needed help. I knew it. And I knew I wanted like really high high quality help. I wanted the best I could get. And I actually remember when I was trying to make decisions, I was trying to compare and look at other people may be doing similar things. And I just kept coming back to you guys. And I was like, No, I'm like, I don't want to go with someone where I don't feel like they're going to do as good a job of a job for me. And we're not going to work together in the same way. Like, I feel like on both of your parts to your marketing and your branding is a huge part of the reason that he gave me confidence to be like, no, like they're speaking directly to me, these people must be the people who I'm meant to work with and help me build this. This business like, I don't want to sacrifice that I don't want to go for something that's maybe a bit less expensive, or it just felt really right in the end. Yeah, good.

Emily Thompson 11:52
Well in it is definitely ended up being one of our like dream projects, I've totally loved it. But I want to touch on two points. One being your moment of song, my God. And the confidence that you found came from a moment of clarity. And that's something that Kathleen and I have talked about he privately several times. And that real confidence comes from a point when you find clarity, like sincere clarity in what it is that your next steps are or what it is that you're wanting to build. Confidence just sort of comes from clarity in a really awesome way. And so I love that you finding your clarity and what your path was going to be helped you find the confidence to move forward. But I also love the fact that it was our branding, positioning and marketing that helped us sell to you totally is even more of that like that. That pain point of like having branding and having marketing and having clear positioning in place and knowing what it is that you're offering and to whom you're offering it to Yeah, is super important in being able to get clients to come to you and simply say, this is the right fit. Because for me building in the boom, I know braid, building the braid method, we want our offerings to sell themselves, basically. And that comes from clear branding and positioning, and just really hardcore messaging, but clarity and messaging that gives people confidence that we're going to do what we say that we're doing

Talia Chai 13:25
totally high fat. And yeah, I mean, I didn't, I didn't know you guys before this, I didn't know anyone personally, who would work directly with you. And yet, I went in and took a leap and did it and made a huge investment. You know, and, and I'm not the kind of person to do something like that just on a whim. Like, I really need to feel it in my gut that it's right. And, and I did and that is a huge, huge part because of your clear branding and messaging and all that. I mean, that was an obviously talking to you guys before that, you know, like everything, but, um, it was a huge part of it, for sure.

Kathleen Shannon 14:02
I want to ask you about um, so while you're doing chef, Talia, and then even as you were kind of relaunching and decide to hire us, were you working a day job at all?

Talia Chai 14:15
Yeah, I had a job at the detox market, which is this clean beauty boutique, essentially. And I still work there part time. And I also was actually both of my side jobs that I had then I still have now leading food tours all over the city. Which is really fun. And it's cool because when I first took that job is just like awesome people and just seemed like a fun thing to do on the side. But it just goes to show I mean I've been there for almost a year now and now they've asked me to create my own like TC wellness branded healthy food tour for them and go in it on like an actual business level as opposed to just being a tool. Guided all that so I get to put the whole thing together and be really involved. So it just you never know like if you have little passionate side jobs that feel connected and not just like mindless and all of that. You never know what could come out of them. Yeah, I

Emily Thompson 15:15
want to point out really quickly in working with Italia to because we do have so many people who listen to the podcast, who are side hustlers, who are, you know, building their their business like separate from their day job. One of the things that you have done that I have admired so much is that your day jobs have been day jobs that have given you energy, that you love the jobs that you do, you love them, and you've used them in building your brand, you've used them to leverage, like the growth of your new brand. So Well, I mean, you've done workshops at the detox market, and you've made connections with like the juice company, the local juice company, we know we've we've talked about that. And doing affiliate programs like you have used those day jobs to leverage the growth of your like new brand, in a way that I feel has like, has helped you grow just as much as the investments that you've put in time and money in building a website and brand. You've you've been spinning your energy with these day jobs, really connecting with people who are going to help you know the greater tally Chai wellness brand, far beyond a day job.

Kathleen Shannon 16:26
I also want to point out I love how you refer to the these jobs as your side jobs. And Talia Chai is like your main hustle, because what we're seeing a lot with our listeners of being boss is that a lot of them that do work at day jobs, they consider that their real job, which I'm putting in quotations, if you're not watching on YouTube. And so they consider that their real job and they consider the creative entrepreneur venture that they have on the side as their side hustle. And for you just hearing you talk about it. It's kind of the flip flop, Talia Chai and the brand that you're creating is your main hustle. And these jobs on the side are simply that and I also love what Emily said about those really supporting your brand. And using them, you know, together hand in hand. So I think that my advice for listeners might be if you're not quite ready to take the full leap on your own, at least get jobs that are aligned with what you want to be doing and will help you grow your expertise on someone else's dime. Like that's really a really great way to be compensated financially and just even on your entrepreneurial journey.

Talia Chai 17:39
I totally agree. And I think that it's a huge part of the journey, at least it has been for me because I've always my whole life, I've been the kind of person who needs to be passionate about what I'm doing on a small scale or large scale, for better or for worse. It's what brought me here today to like launch my own business. And even with my my side jobs, like if I feel like they're soul sucking or life sucking, or I've had those jobs where I've sat there, and the highlight of my day has been leaving the office for a walk at lunchtime and being outside and like, like, how can I make my life more like this, you know, I've had those moments and I can't I don't last very long there. So even if maybe you get paid a little bit less, doing something on the side that you really love, I think it's worth it in the end to hustle through that because it'll fuel your life and it'll fuel your actual business and all the work that you're doing. And like you never know what can come out of it. If you're actually engaged in passion and doing your best work in that space. Like so many opportunities can come out of that even the side ones. Alright, so

Kathleen Shannon 18:44
I'm going to talk a little bit about the branding and website journey that you went through. So you found great creative through indie boom, but whether or not we're working with indie boom clients, or with our own clients, it's usually the first step in the process. And Emily and I will meet with clients together or separately and just introduce ourselves and make sure that it's a good fit for everyone. We've done a minisode about having dream customers and how to stick to that dream customer and part of it is getting face to face. And just making sure that we're all on the same page. And part of that is just energetically like do we mesh well, do we think that this can be a good working relationship, but then it's also outlining, okay, here's exactly what you get. And that's a great thing about whenever you have a process and you can package it is that you're able to tell people this is what you get, rather than you being like so what do you offer and me being like, Well, so what do you need? Because then it's just like an awkward dance. Whereas if you're coming to me for branding, I want to be able to take the lead for you and I want you to be able to feel good in that dance by just taking the you know, what is the dancing metaphor, like if you're leading, you're like what the follow anyway. is a dance though, right? And it starts with and so I just wanted to talk a little bit about how the braid method works and how you went through that with us. And so it starts with sending you a manila envelope. And I was very excited to find. So it's like, we call it our start deck. And it's these homework cards that we send to you. And they're not super tricked out and, and branded fancy by any means are really simple. And that's because I don't want our clients to be distracted by design, I just want them to be thinking about the content and thinking about what they're filling out. And it's really just, it's nine cards that ask a whole bunch of questions in a bunch of different ways, but in a really fun and interactive way. And so some of those exercises are goal setting exercise, by pretending you're in a time machine, and you've zapped five years in the future, what is your life look like? And that can kind of help us see what your vision is for where you want to go. We're looking at things like dream customer, avatars, and really profiling who that person is. And we're looking at, kind of like your inner Spark, that thing that really drives you and your purpose, but then also your outer shell, like if you could talk to all the people that you want to help and just kind of like with a megaphone on a street corner, or like the end of times guy with a sandwich board sign. If you were like that crazy person on the corner of the sidewalk yelling at people about your brand, what would that be? And then we're also looking at some of the look and feel stuff like so who are other experts that inspire you, and what are some brands that you really love the look and feel of? So one of the things with branding is I think that a lot of people assume it's just about logos and typography and colors. And then that's it, we're done. But it's so much more than that. And that's how we get to that deeper layer of who you are, what your expertise is, how you're going to share it, and how you're going to sell it. One of our cards specifically talks about what you're actually doing, because I find a lot of the creators that we work with are really charged and feel really emotional about what they do. But then they forget that it's a business and that they need to have something to sell. Because you can't just sell hope. You can't sell empowerment. You can't even sell a lifestyle, you have to have a tangible product or service that is packaged up in a way that not only inspires people but reassures them. And so that's part of what we're getting whenever we go through that homework with you. So we send you those homework cards, you fill them out, how was that process of filling out the homework cards, like it

Talia Chai 22:51
was fun, like I knew it was going to arrive in the mail. And I was so excited. And it's just nice to get real mail these days anyways, and I love doing things online. That's how my business is structured. But it's still really nice to receive something in the mail and write things down with a pen and paper, you know. So I enjoyed the process a lot. Like I've always really enjoyed digging deep. asking myself those types of questions. I always learn every time I do. And, and I think that yeah, I think that it was a really well rounded process. And I really appreciated that you guys wanted to get all of that information from me. Because it showed me that you really cared to get dig a little bit deeper, as opposed to just keeping it really surface, which I think is so important when you're building a brand. Right. And so the follow up to that, then is you fill out your star deck cards, and

Kathleen Shannon 23:45
then we have a Skype meeting. So I think that there is something to be said for meeting face to face. And it is just my preferred style of communication. I feel like it humanizes everyone in the method and in the process. And so you're not just reading your start deck answers to us. We're asking you even more questions. And Emily earlier was talking about that clarity and finding confidence through clarity. Well, clarity happens whenever you ask a whole bunch of questions, and you're asking the right questions, and you're really hearing yourself. And I think it helps to really have someone mirror back to you what is being said. So we talk to you. And usually it happens where I'm facilitating the conversation and then either my sister Tara, who's my business partner, or our brand director, Liz who is out in Durham, North Carolina, and you work with Liz, right. Talia is me, you and Liz. Yes. So we were all Skyping together and I was helping facilitate the call and ask a bunch of the questions. And that's where a lot of my coaching practice comes in. Because I'm kind of coaching you through a lot of questions and it's like, wait, you sounded really energized whenever you start talking about this thing, elaborate there. And that's how we do Dig deeper. Meanwhile, Liz is just taking notes. She's literally capturing what you're saying. Because there's a big difference between what you write down and what you say out loud. And that's how we can really capture your authentic tone and vibe is by hearing what you're saying definitely. And then really figuring out the overlaps, and what's rising to the top and then the disconnects. And what is really, you may have written one thing down, but we never heard you say those words out loud. So we don't want to use them in your brand. Because it it's maybe words that you're taking from someone else. And you like how they said it, but it's not really you.

Emily Thompson 25:37
I want to point out here too, though, like whenever you came to me Italia to do to do this big project, you thought you were going to do skincare.

Talia Chai 25:46
Yeah, when I originally started.

Emily Thompson 25:48
Yeah, if we can recall it because Lissy Italia we started working together last July. So we're 10 months into our program, and 10 months ago, you want to do skincare. And it was through the braid start deck in that first sort of section of like our engagement together with braid, that helped you find even further clarity in the fact that you weren't going to start off with just skincare. So just like you know, giving some shout outs to really how this process and really digging deep can get you further into what you want to do then even you thought you wanted to do

Kathleen Shannon 26:24
but it's cool, because I liked how skincare came up in it. And even in our introduction, I mentioned the skincare because that did rise to the top as a big well, like a really narrow, actually a really narrow point of view. And if we can start with skincare, then we can open up into all the other lifestyle stuff. And I'm excited to really just catch up with you and hear how things have even evolved since then. Because the braid method is a brand platform. And that is a platform to kind of dive from and grow, grow or you know, really even deepen. And we use a metaphor about a girl on a diving horse a lot. And so we talk about branding in that sometimes. Sometimes you'll go to the circus, I don't once Has anyone been to a circus recently. Since I was like, in elementary school, and I think even now like me, too, you know, circus is.

Emily Thompson 27:18
Now let's just start to so like that's the new circuit.

Talia Chai 27:20
Yeah, leave the animals out of it. Right? Well, so

Kathleen Shannon 27:24
traditional thing about like, traditional old school circus, and you go and there's a three ring circus, and there's a bunch of stuff happening, and you kind of don't really know where to focus and where to direct your attention. That is a scattered brand. But then you might go around the corner and you see the girl in the diving horse. And you know that she is there to do one thing, and that is to get a horse up on a platform and dive into a tiny, narrow pool. And that's what we want our clients to be as the girl in the diving horse, we want people to come to you for exactly what it is that you are best at. And so we had a conversation. After you fill out your homework cards, and we're asking lots of questions. we're capturing what you're saying. Then we go away, and we start to develop. So we do consulting, but we do it visually. And we develop a 25 to 30 page PDF, and we came back to you and we were like, here's what we heard you say we're capturing quotes that you said out loud. And I think I was even telling you one time you were like, Did I say that? And we're like, yeah, you totally said that. You just need someone to capture it. I know

Talia Chai 28:31
for sure said that. Yeah, well, when you're just going on this rant and talking like you forget, but it's cool that you guys are taking notes like that. And then you can kind of hear yourself again in a different way.

Kathleen Shannon 28:43
And then that that document is also so it's really visual. And we're it's kind of a living breathing mood board. We're pulling pins from Pinterest, and from your Pinterest boards. And not just your branding, Pinterest board, but all of them what are some things that you love? What are some visual metaphors that we can start to pull into your brand. So this is simply your vision guide. It's the framework and the backbone for what you do. We're not even designing anything yet, at the very end. And so we're talking about things like your dream customer and kind of just outlining the roadmap of your expertise, your vision, your style, your point of view, all that good stuff that goes into a brand. in that meeting, we're talking back and forth. And I think even from like you said, from the start deck moving forward, you start thinking about your business and your brand in a different way. So the process is a part of what gets you to that final brand platform. So we have that conversation. And you'll even tell us like this doesn't quite resonate, but I love how you guys said this. And so we will kind of tailor your final brand platform to match your feedback. It really is collaborative, there's a conversation happening. The very last process is then a couple of weeks later, we meet up for Skype again, and we reveal to you your final brand platform. And so it kind of feels like we get broad with the vision. And then we narrow back in with your brand platform. And that does include things like your logo, your positioning statement, your rallying cry. And so these are things like that you might consider your elevator pitch, we go into your brand story, which is more than it's not a resume at all, you might have your resume, but your brand story is how you emotionally connect what you do with your purpose with your dream customer. And then we give you how to hire me language. So I found a lot of creatives have a hard time saying, okay, here's what I do. And we get to hear how to hire me language by looking at your process. So we asked you, Talia, every time you work with someone, what is the process? Like, what do you do, and it might seem obvious to you where you're like, well, we meet and I assess what's going on. And then I create a plan of attack. And then we implement it, you know, and it might seem really obvious, but that's the kind of conversation if we can make it your process, outlined and visual, that is really reassuring to your customer. And then the final thing that we developed that a lot of our listeners have heard Emily and I talked about before are these sales slides. So it's a series of P. Well, it's a PDF, that is about seven to 10 slides that you can use to attach to an email, or even use it I gave the slides to Emily and said, here's some of the visual direction, take this and use it to help design the website. And so that is what that is the sales slides. And again, it's just kind of outlining who you are, what you do and who it's for. It's really your brand platform, condensed into this PDF that you can send to people and to share more about who you are and what you do. It's kind of like the equivalent of a media kit, except that you're not media, you're a business. And then finally, that's it, we show it to you all together. And it's a package, we put everything into a Dropbox so all of your assets. And even we like to give our clients native files. A lot of people don't like to do that. But we like to do it because we'd like for you to be able to hand it off to a web designer and developer. I love working with Emily because I always know that people are in good hands know where they go from us to her. And she knows exactly what to expect from our process as well. But we have a few designers and developers that we work with if Emily's not the best fit. And so then I want to talk about like, what's next unless you have anything to add to that Tahlia to that process as far as like that vision guide and that platform and what that was like for you.

Talia Chai 32:51
I feel like you you covered it all. And I think that Yeah, like throughout the process, even for me, knowing what I didn't like or what didn't work for me visually or aesthetically or like was as helpful as seeing what I what I did like because it helped me to get clear and get that clarity further along the way. So yeah, for me, that process was a lot about clarity, and just narrowing in narrowing in like the metaphor that you use, but really narrowing it as much as possible. Because my mind tends to be very scattered. I have a million ideas. I want to do everything at once. And I know that's not the right approach. But sometimes you need help to really narrow in and then you feel really good when you do

Kathleen Shannon 33:40
I say also just like literally getting it on paper too. Because we can talk talk talk. And then after the conversation be like, wait, what happened? What did we say? And it's a lot of information to digest. And so we'll recommend people come back to your vision guide and your brand platform. Time and time again, if you're ever feeling scattered, come back to this document, use it as your roadmap, use it to help you make decisions and to remember your clarity of purpose. And so after you worked with us, you went back to Emily. Yeah. What was that like? tell tell us Emily, how did you guys tell you through that process?

Emily Thompson 34:20
Well, and I'll start this with with two to work with both Braden itallian came to me first, like she found in the room. I think you were in my webinar last Yes. I think last March or something I did a webinar on like how to build a cohesive like online presence. And that's actually when I launched in DVM so I first logged in the boom after that webinar and tally was one of the fab people that contacted me like one of the first ones that I booked tell you was one of those and and I knew that I wanted to pull in braid on some of those projects, especially the ones that were for personal brands because braid is amazing whenever it comes to building personal brands. For for creatives and having that business visioning. And because I do know what's going, what kind of files I'm going to get, I've actually sort of made it a rule. Like if people come to me with brands not done by braid, I won't do unless they are packaged as wonderfully as braids are. So whenever people come to me, and they, I know they're gonna build a personal brand, so tell you, you were one of those that you came to me. And you were you really, I don't even know what I'm going to call it yet. But it's going to be this this lifestyle brand. And it's all about me and what you know, I want I want to share with the world and I want to do this, this and this. And I was like, Girl, you need brain. So it was it was it was an easy decision at that point. And so I remember getting in touch with you, or, you know, we booked up and we set a date. And we had our first meeting where were really it's like goal setting, like, Who are you? What are you doing? And what are some goals that you have, because you did book the 12 months in dBm project. So we a whole year together, like I wanted to make sure we had some good goals. You know, we were obviously to get branding and website done. And we just sort of laid out just a rough roadmap of what the next 12 months would be. And then we did the braid process. And I was in all those meetings, just sort of listening in and soaking up all that goodness. And then after braid, we really hit the ground running with all the things. So I remember, let's see, that was, I guess, late last summer, we had branding done, and we started website planning. So knowing that you wanted to offer your services on your website, email marketing was going to be huge for you as it should for any online entrepreneur, that you wanted to have a huge blogging presence because you wanted to share all this content and, and grow a community around around your self care principles and all that jazz. So we've planned your website. And we designed and developed. And we Oh, we also pulled in Lexie content, who is fantastic, by the way for creating your content. So we did do a full like planning of your website and then had someone write your content and designed, developed. And then we ended up launching your website in December. So we really took some good time to really make sure you had content going. You came to me with all those great blog posts just ready to go. You were hustling things out. So I want to hear from you like that, that process. For web, what was that like for you? And what are just some helpful tips you can give to people who are going through I guess, the same thing,

Talia Chai 37:44
I think I had a really clear vision of what I wanted it to look like, like the look and feel going in. Throughout the whole process. And especially like after working through braid, I'd really narrowed it in on what I wanted my website to look and feel like so I I felt confident about that. I think having a really clear vision helps because it could be anything I mean, your website could look like anything so it helps to just get more focused and that made me feel good. And and you guys executed that amazingly.

Kathleen Shannon 38:22
And so Italia were you like going around to other websites that inspired you and saying I like this about this website. And I like this about this website. But I don't like this. I mean, were you literally sharing links and kind of mood boarding that out

Talia Chai 38:36
totally. And I really kind of tried to find the common denominator between all the websites that I liked, why do I like all of these, you know, and for me, like a lot of whitespace in the background, like a lot of very, like minimalist and clean looking. And things like that. So I really did, I did a lot of research on my own a lot. And I'm huge, like Pinterest was very, very, very helpful because it's the best way to capture any, any visual elements for the branding and the website. So I got really into doing that research on my own. And then I loved working with Emily and working with indie boom to actually execute it. And I was really, really happy with how you guys executed it and how we could work together and feed off of each other and exchange ideas in our in our bi monthly sessions. And, um, work through that together. And so, and then creating the content, like creating some content, blog posts, and all that before we launched was important. It was scary for me it was overwhelming. For sure. It was like my first blog post that I was writing and looking back. It's funny that it was so intimidating. But you know, it's just starting something starting something new and putting your voice out there. It can feel really overwhelming at the beginning especially before the web site is So even existed, right? So, but that was a good process for me. And I enjoyed it. I really did. It wasn't too stressful, leading up to the launch.

Emily Thompson 40:10
No, no. So and that's one of the really great things about you know, doing in the room and investing in something that you know is going to be put together as just as braid has their like hardcore method for branding. We do. It's similar for website, it's just more drawn out. It takes a couple more meetings to get there. Because we do we talk about, we talk about inspiration, and I get you to send me sites that you like, and not even send me sites that you like, but telling me what it is that you do or do not like. So I love the menu,

Kathleen Shannon 40:39
I want to jump in and point out that sometimes for people who maybe aren't as visual as you Talia,

Unknown Speaker 40:45
yes,

Kathleen Shannon 40:46
trust your designer and developer and even send them like a list of links and say, I don't know what I love about these websites, necessarily. But here are all the ones I like. And your designer and developer should be able to look at these. And they can help you find the common thread and they can say okay, what I'm seeing across the board is lots of whitespace, I'm seeing that actually, every single one of them has a newsletter sign up at the top. And I know that a newsletter is important to you. So you know, that's definitely something to consider. So they're not just looking at the design, but they're looking at the functionality and seeing what those common threads are, or the blogs on the homepage are and are they selling something as an online business? Or is it pushing in person product. So that's another thing, just for any of our listeners who are working with a designer and developer, you don't necessarily have to be able to say what you like or don't like about something, you just need to maybe give your designer and developer a list of things and let them kind of dissect it from there.

Talia Chai 41:44
I totally agree with that. And I I kind of knew going through it that I didn't have to do any of those things. And I trusted that it would have been amazing had I not, but I'm just I am such a visual person. That's kind of how I operate. And I already saw it like I already kind of saw things. So I needed to communicate that but it could go either way. I know a lot of people wouldn't even want to have to get into that on their own, you know what I mean? But for me, I really actually loved that part of the process

Kathleen Shannon 42:14
good. And I think that the more visual you can get and the more you can be using Pinterest as a tool and even putting together mood boards the more collaborative and enthusiastic outcome you have at the end. Hey guys, I want to take a second to talk about our sponsor fresh books. Fresh books is the easy to use invoicing software designed to help creative entrepreneurs get organized, save time invoicing, and get paid faster. Now I personally use and love freshbooks I first started using fresh books whenever I was a solopreneur Freelancer I remember I did the free trial which you can try your own free trial by going to freshbooks comm slash being boss and enter being boss in the How did you hear about us section. So I started with a free trial. And after 30 days, I had to commit to a plan. And what's really great about freshbooks is that the plan starts at just 995 a month. So I promise you that it is an expense that will pay for itself because using software like fresh books will make you more efficient, it will help you get paid faster, and it will just help you be more legit. So stay on top of your business with a clear picture of its financial health. Try fresh books for free today. Just go to freshbooks comm slash being boss and enter being boss in the How did you hear about us section? Try your free trial for 30 days. And then after that you can start a plan for just 995 a month. All right back to our show.

Emily Thompson 43:52
Yeah, so I also want to hit so we did website launch all that jazz and that launched in December but we are still working Yeah, really, really hard on mods of stuff. So because you you because you did the 12 month indie boom. And we launched the site in December, and which left us about six months to like continue working. So one of the things that I love about how I've built in the boom is that projects don't have to end when the website launches like I actually prefer it if they don't, because I've seen that that whenever I can work with clients more long term that I can be more of a part of that success than simply launching a website. So with our 12 month in the burbs, you get coaching with me so we meet twice a month, and we talk about what you've been up to what your next steps are how that's reflected on the website. So my team can do any edits or changes and build out additional pages or whatever that may be. So we've still been working on a lot of stuff. So since since launch, you have been working on some amazing things. So we launched in December, we took a little bit of a holiday break debrief. Because we've been working so hard for so long. And you've been doing, you've been blogging a ton. So really been staying on top of your blogging and sharing that content to grow your clout and your your community and those things, pushing your list. But you've also been working on another big project that I want to talk about. Yes.

Unknown Speaker 45:17
So let's talk about it. But first, we were all having a little discussion before this started. And we were talking about how a lot of people maybe think that once your website's launched, you kind of be like, oh, like the works, the major work is done. And now I get to kind of go for the ride. And I was like, Well, for me, it kind of feels like the opposite. It feels like as soon as my website launched, that's when all of my work really started. Yeah,

Emily Thompson 45:42
your business started. It's

Kathleen Shannon 45:43
so true. Branding is just branding and web are the first step. And then after that, you still have to hustle. You can't just sit back and expect clients to come to you without doing things like putting out your content and sharing your gifts of knowledge. And really selling yourself to

Talia Chai 46:01
it takes a lot of work. And it's a lot of trial and error. And you fine tune like I've changed so much from December till now May, you know, in terms of evolving with what's working, what's not what feels right, what doesn't, I mean, just a lot of trial and error. And you have to keep pushing forward and trying out new things in order to make those little breakthroughs, I guess, to keep everything moving forward, because you create a lot of it before it even exists. Do you know what I mean? Like you're creating all this stuff that you think will be really good. But once you execute it, then you have to see okay, now what's working and what's not? And how can I make this the best possible version of whatever it is. But yes, Emily and I have been working towards my first product offering, which is going to be an ebook. So it's a recipe ebook. I'm really excited about it. It's every recipe and it is dairy free, gluten free and refined sugar free, which I think sounds terrifying to a lot of people, because how can food taste good if those things aren't in food, but that's my goal. My goal is to provide like a tool and a resource for people like my clients, and then other people who just want to try cooking at home, to feel confident and make awesome food that's gonna leave you feeling absolutely amazing afterwards, you know? Because I know that taking those things out is intimidating. I wanted to make it easy for people. How can people get your ebook? Well, it's gonna be up for sale on my website, which is Talia chai.com. So what I would recommend is it's going to be launching sometime soon. Sign up for my newsletter. So just go to Talia chai.com and enter your name and email address and sign up for my newsletter where you just get lots of fun updates, but including any new offerings like this ebook, you'll be the first to know

Emily Thompson 47:55
Yeah, so you you have been working your butt off on this ebook, like oh my god, every every meaning that we have had for the past three months, at least. I mean, usually up behind your head on that board is all of your recipe.

Talia Chai 48:06
I know we've not normally look like this. It's covered. This is like my major vision board for the E book, which my boyfriend actually helped me create. And it was brilliant, because it helped me to have like a massive version of this ebook, so I could switch things around. And as it all changed, it was it was good. Wait, can

Kathleen Shannon 48:27
we talk about your process for that a little bit. I want to talk about this because at braid, we have our chalkboard for manifesting clients. And so I want to talk about using a physical thing that you can be writing on as a way to help you with your creative process, especially when it comes to creating something massive like an E book. So tell us a little bit and especially for the people who aren't watching on YouTube. Behind you. It looks like you have a big whiteboard.

Talia Chai 48:52
It's like a canvas covered corkboard. Oh, okay. So

Kathleen Shannon 48:56
you're pinning things up?

Unknown Speaker 48:58
Yes.

Unknown Speaker 48:59
Tell us more about that process.

Talia Chai 49:01
Yes. So before, okay, so I spoke to Emily, I'm like, what's going to be the next thing we're going to work on. And I just knew, even though I thought it'd be something different before, once it was really working with my clients, I'm like, this is what people need the most. This is what needs to get done first, because it helps my clients like immensely. So I felt like I needed to do it for my clients. And I would feel more confident sending them on their way with something like this to help them. But then I was like, Oh my god, I'm writing a cookbook, like what am I doing? This is so terrifying. And it's such a big project. So I kind of was paralyzed with fear for maybe a week or two. And then my boyfriend's actually the one who helped me he was like, You can't figure this out in your head. Like it's too much. You have to get it out there. You have to make it visual and you have to work through it in that way. And it was so helpful to do that. So I literally divided this board behind me into columns for each section of the book. And then I wrote out on little pieces of paper and pin them, like going downwards in these columns, every recipe idea I had for each column. And then actually, as I started making each recipe, I'd put a checkmark beside it if it was good, or I would take it down if it didn't work out. And then I just started to see the actual content of the book, evolve and be created in front of me. And then I was like, Okay, what makes sense in the, in the theme of this book, what Doesn't he know, just started fine tuning everything. But having an up there was huge, huge, it really helped. Because I had to get it out of my head, it was too overwhelming in my head.

Kathleen Shannon 50:38
Yes, everyone needs a chalkboard, or a cork board or a dry erase board is something to help make your tasks or your client list or a big project, like an E book or an E course, make it visual. Yeah, and get specific on that cork board too. And you get specific about, like what needs to happen. And so I loved how you described it being your big buckets of like sections of the book, but then getting really specific with the pieces. And I love that it's even modular, like you can take pieces off, if it doesn't work, and you haven't disturbed everything around it exists. And then you can see where your holes are. So if you have a whole bunch of stuff in one section that you're like, that's not working, you take it all down, you realize, Oh, I need to replace that content with something because you can literally see a giant hole there.

Talia Chai 51:23
Exactly, no, it's good. It really And like I mentioned, I am a visual person. So for me, it really was that missing element. Um, and since then, I mean, like Emily, and I've had our meetings checking in. And so I'm pretty much fit, I'm finished all the recipe creation. And now I'm finishing up all the written content, and then shortly moving into photography, so I'm photographing the whole book myself, which is really exciting. I have never even used an SLR camera before I take everything with my iPhone. But I have a friend who's a photographer who lent me his camera and showed me how to do it. So I think it's going to be great. I think it's all going to look amazing in the end. But it's been, it's been a huge learning experience for me. And I really do feel grateful for the support from Emily, an indie boom, throughout that because I know that once I've done all my work, I can pass it on to them. And they're going to help like turn that into the product that I've been working so hard towards, and that digitalising element of it is just beyond me. And I don't want to have to worry about that. So I'm glad that I can just do my work and then pass it to Emily and her team. Amen. My team to like we. So right now we're consolidating all of our grade e courses into one and handing it all over to Emily. But we've been working on it for six months. So that's something I kind of want to address here, as we talk about digital product is that it takes a lot of work I've had if you make it look easy, and people are like, hey, let's collaborate on equal. So let's collaborate on an E book, you're doing a good job, like you're doing a good job to make it look easy. But we all know how much work goes into that. And then just like your website launch,

Kathleen Shannon 53:04
whenever you launch that ebook, it's easy to sit back and have a fantasy that this is now going to be passive income and it's going to make you a ton of money. No, no. Now you've got to promote that. Like that's just the beginning now of getting this ebook out into the world. And so it is things like writing, telling people how they can buy in every blog post, every interview, everything should be pushing that ebook. And then what is that ebook doing for you? This is something that Emily taught me whenever we were working together on our E courses, and looking at our cash flow situation. And Emily said, Kathleen, you need to be pitching to every single person that takes your ecourse to then do the braid method. Because that is our bread and butter offering. It's how we pay the bills. So yeah, your work has only begun but huge Congrats. I mean, that's a big thing to tackle.

Talia Chai 54:01
Thank you. And I have to say I never thought that I would tackle something like that this early on. I've always like i like i said i went to culinary school. Cooking is a huge passion of mine. Teaching cooking classes and creating seminars and all that but I still that was a distant dream, like creating a an E book or a book. I mean, I am creating a book. Yes, it's digitalized. But it's a book. It's a cookbook and I never thought I'd be doing that this early on. I never even knew if I would have ever really done it was always just this dream. So the fact that it's actually happening now and it's going to be done in a couple of weeks probably is just crazy. Yeah. And really exciting.

Kathleen Shannon 54:42
All right, tell you I want to spend our last little bit of time together, talking about being boss in work and life and I want to specifically talk about the tools that you teach to your clients because I think it is so important for bosses everywhere to be implementing some of the stuff that uteach into their lifestyle so that they can be even more boss.

Talia Chai 55:05
I love talking about this, I think this is such a, an exciting conversation to have, because I'm just so passionate about like personal development and performing at an optimal level. And I think that for entrepreneurs especially, we need all the help, we can get in the sense that we're kind of doing a million things at once we're doing a lot of it on our own, it can feel really overwhelming. And if you have a solid routine, or if you just have certain health practices that you know, you have down, you don't have to worry about it, you don't have to think about it. And it just serves every other aspect of your life and your work. So what I do is, I created a program, a one on one coaching program called dream life where through a lot of trial and error working with clients in the past, I developed this program to cover the most important elements of your life. To get them down, we do it together, it's a six week program. So eating, exercise, stress, and sleep. And we make huge progress, huge progress and transformations in each of those areas. We do them one at a time. And they all feed into each other. I mean, once you have your eating and your exercise down, your stress is going to go down to and once you have your eating and your exercise and your stress under control, your sleep is going to drastically improve so that they all are meant to work together. And I think that for entrepreneurs like neglecting ourselves on not taking care of ourselves always, let's say putting the work first. And it can just lead to burnout. And it's, it's about being slow and steady and consistent in your work, as opposed to trying to get it all done really quickly. And then and then burning yourself out. And it's so easy to do. I think burnout is such an easy thing to accomplish if we're not mindful of really valuing like our bodies, and what we need to function in an optimal level. And that's the other thing, I think a lot of people are used to functioning at kind of like a mediocre level. And that's our norm. So we don't even realize how much better it could be. I mean, my last dream life client that I had, he said to me, he was like, I kind of just came to you for nutrition, I really didn't think I needed this sleep and the stress and the exercise, but I went with it because that was your only offering in that department. But he's like, I didn't realize how bad all those areas of my life were before and and how much better they got, like I didn't even know I needed help in those areas.

Kathleen Shannon 57:42
I want to pause for a second because I want everyone to hear what you said there. Which is and I want to get into like I want like a little piece of tidbit from each one of those sections that a lot of our listeners can use or that I myself can use whenever it comes to self care. And I know that you work with people one on one, and it's very accustomed to them, but kind of some broad patterns that you've seen. But first, I want to talk about how this guy came to you. And you said you have to go through this entire process to get to the nutrition, but we're going to touch on everything else too. I've had even in my own business, some clients offered to pay me double to just do their logo, like if you can just do my logo. And we can skip all the you know, visioning and process stuff like I don't have time. I'm like, well, it's it's how I work. And it's how I get the information I need. And it's what I do best. Knowing that it's also going to serve them tremendously in the end. And so for you, I love that you're brave enough to say to not say okay, I'll just help you with nutrition, and instead, do all of those things and say, here's my process, and you can sign up for the whole thing. And we'll focus on nutrition. But we're going to have to touch on these other things too, because it all goes hand in hand. And as part of that, you know, you're inspiring him probably with your blog and your recipes and the things that you're sharing. But then you're reassuring and really delivering whenever you offer your entire package and you say this is how I work. So amen to you high five.

Talia Chai 59:10
Thank you. Yeah, you know, it was scary to do that. Because I know some people just want nutrition. And I worked with people in that way before. And they feel like it just ended on a flat note. And I didn't want that anymore. I wanted to my clients to finish our working engagement and feel like they had really transformed in a way. And this was the only way to do it. And it has been really getting those results. So that's been really encouraging because I always knew that we could get people there. And obviously for people with the way we work, the more committed they are, the better, the better their results will be. So it's it's like a team.

Kathleen Shannon 59:48
Alright, let's go to some like top line tips and tidbits and things, patterns that you've uncovered along the way. In each of those areas that you mentioned. What are some things that creative entrepreneurs or as Firing bosses should be doing now to get better sleep and to eat better and to exercise. Like, give us some advice, Tahlia.

Talia Chai 1:00:10
Oh my god, okay, there's, there's a lot and like I said, everything is connected. So when you improve one of the areas, it will trickle down and improve another. So any little changes that you make in any of those four categories are really, really beneficial to your overall well being. Let's start with eating. I think the biggest, the most powerful tip I could give is try cutting out refined sugar from your diet. It sucks out your energy, it just drains you, you become kind of addicted to it and reliant on it. And it makes you less satisfied with things like vegetables and fruits, it just really messes people up, it causes weight gain more than anything else, which can make people feel a bit blue. I mean, like no one wants to feel that way. So I think that if I were to say one thing, I'd say get rid of the sugar, and then replace that sugar that you've cut out and refined carbohydrates with like fresh fruits and vegetables and tons of fresh water. And even just making that change alone, just that and it's a big one, because a lot of people are addicted. And once they wean themselves off, I mean, you will transform just by doing that alone. So that's a huge one. I would I would start with that. I mean, but let Yeah, of course, all my lifestyle, like my diet recommendations are fine tuned to each individual depending on where they are.

Kathleen Shannon 1:01:40
But everyone could benefit from taking out some sugar, more fruits and veggies and drinking more water.

Talia Chai 1:01:47
Everyone, your energy will improve drastically. You won't feel like spikes and crashes throughout the day, which is what sugar does, you know. So that's a big one. And I think that you need proper tools to get there though when you need potentially support and accountability, which is what I provide to you. Because sometimes it's hard to do it on your own. But then once you get there, then you're like I can do this no problem, and you feel so good that you don't want to stop. I think in terms of sleep, I think that a lot of people are really sleep deprived, especially entrepreneurs, especially if you have kids, I know it's really, really, really hard to make sleep a priority. But it's so essential. So if you can get seven to eight hours of sleep a night, I mean, it's huge and good quality sleep too. So dark in your room, you want your room to be really dark, you want it to be cool, you want to have like natural fabrics that you're sleeping in, or your bed is made out of and all that so everything's breathable, and you want all the technology out of your bedroom. So take the TV out, take your phones charged them in the other room, even if your your alarm clock, it'll help you get up because you have to wake up and stand up to go turn it off. But get that stuff out of there and keep it quiet and dark and cool and no technology. And that'll make a huge difference. Another one was sleep that people hate so much, and makes the biggest difference and like they hate me when I tell them this, but try to do like shut down your technology one to two hours before bed. So get off of your phone get off of your computer, just shut it down. Because the light from those screens really affects your hormone production in a negative way. It keeps you wired, it keeps you stimulated. So it's harder to relax. And it stops your body from producing melatonin which is a really important hormone that can only be produced in the dark. That one like worse, also wired and connected. If we give ourselves that time to just slow down, it really helps with the quality of our sleep.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:55
stress.

Talia Chai 1:03:58
There are a million things have a proper outlet and coping mechanisms for stress. dabble in some meditation, potentially, like I work through these things depending on what people are interested in and what their lifestyles are. But meditation really helps. Gratitude practicing gratitude really, really, really helps you to feel like you have an abundant life no matter where you're at. So it helps to calm down the stress of like, lack. Like I don't have enough of this. I wish I had more of that. If you practice gratitude, you'll start to feel like you have more and then it will start to actually become a reality. And then exercise which is tied into everything directly help stress. So I get people on to good act like just do what you love when it comes to exercise. Don't do what you think you should do what's actually fun. Have fun with it. It doesn't matter what it is. Do it with a friend if it's more fun for you like it should never feel like torture. That's what I always recommend with exercise.

Kathleen Shannon 1:04:55
I haven't heard I was listening a podcast yesterday. It was like don't underestimate even just going for a walk, like going for a walk can be huge. And it is a simple way to move your body and to just get out and about. And for me, I find that walking is when I can kind of go into a meditative place like kind of a moving meditation. And I have found, especially since having my baby that sitting down and quieting My mind is it feels impossible. And obviously, that means I need to practice more and really cultivate that habit a little bit more. But for now, going on a walk, and just thinking about my steps and my breath. It's a moving meditation. And then usually like from there, like all these blog posts, ideas start coming in, in a really good way, I feel like I'm being like, fed all the content that I need to then get through my week as an entrepreneur.

Talia Chai 1:05:51
100% walking has so many benefits, like it clears your mind. I mean, once you start, if your mind is in overwhelm zone, if you start moving your body, that's the best way to counter that. And also get out of your environment and just be outside if you can walk in nature that serves so many purposes. I think it's excellent. I don't think anyone should discount walking, especially if you're not so comfortable with exercise. Anyone can do it. You don't need to spend any money. You don't need to buy gym membership, and it's totally valid.

Kathleen Shannon 1:06:21
I'm curious, and a lot of people in our Facebook group have been talking about this. So I just want to end this conversation. I'm curious what everyone's doing for exercise these days. Like Emily, what are you doing?

Emily Thompson 1:06:31
yoga, yoga really like really restorative yoga these days? I have. I'm finding that I hold stress in my body like crazy, like really crazy. And so I've been working on like releasing my shoulders and my hips. Like a lot. So lots of really hippy yoga. Nice. Love it.

Talia Chai 1:06:51
What about you, Italia. You know what I recently really got into this new workout called, it's not new, it's new, or to me called ballet beautiful. Mary Helen Bowers. She's like the prima ballerina who trained Natalie Portman for Black Swan. And she created this whole I used to dance. So this is primarily why I connect to it and love it so much. But it's just simple matwork videos, everything's online. I do it from home, I don't have to leave I don't have to go anywhere. There are no excuses not to do it. And the results are actually amazing. Like I I am kind of addicted to it right now. So that's and then I'll intermix some yoga just to like stretch everything out and de stress. Nice.

Kathleen Shannon 1:07:35
I am boxing. I'm like the opposite inside. I recently picked up boxing and I even went to the boxing gym just before we were chatting. So I was still trying to like cool down from that workout. But it's it's cool. I go to this little boxing gym. And it is for real, like it kind of smells I feel like it's hooked next door to a mechanic because it kind of smells like cars, and it kind of smells like smoke. And it looks like a place where like Rocky and his like little old trainer would be working out and it's legit. It's not like girly kickboxing, we're talking about wrapping my hands and putting on the gloves and hitting bags and like hitting people and it's been really fun.

Talia Chai 1:08:18
That's so cool. I feel like that's such a good way to get out everything that you're feeling and just clear your mind right out.

Kathleen Shannon 1:08:27
And I think also, you know, I while I was pregnant, I had a hard time. And well you can't get your heart rate above like 140 it's really not recommended. And so even after that I had a really hard time getting back into workouts that got me really sweaty and got my heart rate up. Yes, I feel like this is really the it over a year The first time I really started like sweating. But then there's also just lots of impact. And I love it.

Talia Chai 1:08:54
I think that's awesome.

Emily Thompson 1:08:56
Your face talking about it is priceless.

Kathleen Shannon 1:09:00
I'm gonna become the next Million Dollar Baby. Hopefully not in the way that that movie ended. I won't spoil it for anyone, but it's pretty traumatic.

Talia Chai 1:09:08
But see, like, this is exactly it though. Everyone's so different. And I think some people love high intensity. And some people need like restorative yoga, which is literally the polar opposite. But it's about to tuning into what your body needs in that moment. And it can evolve but like really tapping into that

Kathleen Shannon 1:09:25
tell you it's been so awesome reconnecting with you. We should probably have you on another time just to talk about health and wellness and self care because that's something that every creative entrepreneur could use a little bit more attention to especially always,

Talia Chai 1:09:42
always I would love that and thank you guys so much for having me.

Kathleen Shannon 1:09:45
Thanks for joining us.

Emily Thompson 1:09:49
Did you know that you can get exclusive secret episodes of being involved so on our website, check us out at loving boss calm and enter your name and email to receive a download link. straight to your inbox. as a recording date for this podcast, our first Secret Episode cultivating confidence has been released and we'll be releasing new secret episodes to our subscribers only each quarter. Download yours now at love being boss calm Thank you for listening to being boss from Emily Thompson and Kathleen Shannon find Show Notes for this episode at love being boss calm, listen to past episodes and subscribe to new episodes on iTunes, SoundCloud and Stitcher. If you like our podcast show us some love by reviewing being boss on iTunes and sharing it with a friend. Do the work be boss and we'll see you next week

Kathleen Shannon 1:10:54
sorry tell you you're getting used to like the nitty gritty of recording

Emily Thompson 1:10:57
on this is how we make these

Talia Chai 1:11:01
guys I love this I love the behind the scenes because one day maybe I'll want to do something like this I'm like oh like this is how you do it. Okay Yeah,

Emily Thompson 1:11:11
we don't just get on and jump into we get on and like have to talk for 15 minutes about like, Is everyone recording? Are there any stupid noises going on? Is the bombers crack hanging out behind Katelyn

Kathleen Shannon 1:11:21
I got something in my eye or like a fly is buzzing around. Oh my god.