Unknown Speaker 0:01
Kathleen Shannon 0:02
and welcome to being boss,
Emily Thompson 0:04
a podcast for creative entrepreneurs.
Unknown Speaker 0:06
I'm Emily Thompson.
Kathleen Shannon 0:07
And I'm Kathleen Shannon.
Mickie Lara 0:10
I'm Mickey, Laura. And I've been boss.
Unknown Speaker 0:16
Hey, you guys, I'm
Kathleen Shannon 0:17
so excited to have my friend and I don't know, what would I call you Mickey mentor. I feel like you're kind of like the mama hen in my life. But we're so excited to have Mickey Lara with us today. And she's going to be talking to us all about personality tests, and how we can use personality tests to help us with our own personal growth, our own brands identities, even whenever building a team or choosing a business partner, just all things personality tests, and we're so excited to dig in. Now. As always, we're going to be mentioning a lot of tools and books and links. You can find all of those on the show notes at WWW dot being boss club. All right, you guys, today we're talking all about personality types. And if your personality is not one that loves keeping up with your accounting and finances and books, I've got just the thing for you. Our friends at fresh books are going to hook you up go to freshbooks comm slash being boss and enter being boss in the How did you hear about us section to try fresh books for free for 30 days. And what you're going to find is that it is going to help you get organized. It's super intuitive and easy to use, and is packed full of powerful features. You can create and send professional looking invoices in less than 30 seconds, you can set up online payments with just a couple of clicks and get paid up to four days faster. And you can see when your client has seen your invoice putting an end to any guessing games. Again freshbooks is offering a 30 day unrestricted free trial to our listeners to claim it Just go to freshbooks comm slash at being boss and enter being boss in the How did you hear about us section. Mickey is going to share a little bit of her professional background with us in this episode, so I won't get into that. But what I do want you to know is that Nikki is passionate about self awareness, and is a self proclaimed personal development book and podcast enthusiast, you will also never see her without a cup of coffee. But Mickey I've seen firsthand what a powerful transformation can happen whenever leaders are willing to know themselves to lead themselves and ultimately to lead their teams. Whether or not you have a team yet or not. Today's episode is going to give you new language and new ideas to think about how you move through the world. How you get your energy, how you give your energy, and it is a must listen for all of you. Alright, let's get into it. Mickey, thank you so much for joining us.
Mickie Lara 2:54
Well, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Kathleen Shannon 2:58
Give us a little bit of your background and how you got into personality tests and studying all things personality. Oh, gosh,
Mickie Lara 3:07
okay, well, I'm going to go back aways then. In my story, I'll try not to make it too long. But when I I actually when I went to college, I majored in business just because I think that's what I thought I should do at that time. So when I graduated, at least had moved from finance over to marketing, which was a little more interesting. But when I was graduating from college back in the day, it was not a time Well, this was big shoulder pads, it was business suits, big hair, just to give you some idea. It was the era of consumption, I would say. So it was not a time when we were thinking a lot about what we really wanted to do. What are you passionate about, you know, starting your own business that was just not really part of the narrative. At that time, I would say, at least not in my life. So what you really were supposed to do was just kind of find that perfect business job, get started, you know, get promoted, get the next best job, kind of headed down that path. And so that's what I was doing. And I probably should have known what I had. I had an on campus interview before I graduated, I was remembering this the other day. It's one of those times in life when I could remember what I was wearing. I was sitting there, I'd gotten my little business suit. And I was talking to this guy, and it was an insurance company, I think and I don't even remember what it was for. But he was interviewing me and I think we got to the end. And he asked the question, what do you want to be doing five years from now? Kind of that classic question. And I think I said something to the effect of I just want to be happy. I just want to be happy. And I remember he was looking at me like I had two heads and I thought oh my gosh, what am I doing? So over the years, I remember being so embarrassed about that and just thinking I that should have been my first clue that probably I was on a different path. But anyway, I left college I ended up working in retail still, which is what I was doing. And my first real job, then I would say was in banking, of all things. And I did bank marketing, I did that for several years, I was still in kind of small towns around where I grew up. And then we moved to Oklahoma City, and I switched over to nonprofit work. And I did that for a couple of years. And then that's where I met the founder and the CEO of the advertising agency, where I ended up going to work for quite a long time, which was the same one where Kathleen and Tara were. So that's how we met initially. So I ended up spending 16 years there, actually, I was there for a long time. I know, when I hear some of your listeners that say, Oh, my gosh, you know, I've been doing this forever, I think Well, I've really did it forever. So I have a little bit different story of working in the day job for a long time. But all of those years, I think that I was working, I also always had this little voice that was saying, Is this really what you're supposed to be doing? You know, am I doing what I'm really supposed to be doing? So I was asking myself that question all the time. And I would just devour personal development books. Anything that I could get ahold of I remember my shelves were just filled with that stuff. So it was the strengthsfinder I remember there was one called What color is your parachute? I don't know if that's still around. But
Emily Thompson 6:28
I wonder that sometimes I don't know. Like, what color is my parents?
Mickie Lara 6:35
That one sticks out in my mind for some reason. So I had a lot of them. And I remember each time I would buy one of those, I would think okay, this is going to be it this will be when I figure it out, you know, this is what I'm going to figure out what I really want to do. Now, all the while with that, I mean, I was having a relatively successful career at the same time. But internally, there was always this struggle, I think, in this angsting stress that I was having about what was I quote unquote, supposed to be doing, I remember to when Oprah kind of made the shift over to live your best life, Oh, my gosh, fast, she was talking to me. So I every every minute of that, you know, and just loved it. And I think about all of that, but still was never in a position or would never really make a leap. So, you know, I was at the agency for a long time I worked through a lot of aspects of that I did account service, I manage that group. I, you know, was the executive vice president at one point. And when I left, I was the chief integration officer. But I guess the other part of my story just to throw in there is that I also became a parent on that journey. So back in 2004, after lots of years of infertility, we adopted our son, Jackson. And so when that happened, I started to work in a lot of different ways. I think I was probably the first person at the agency that kind of forged that path. And I was fortunate that I was able to do that. But I started working flexibly, I think I took Friday's off, and then I would do different scenarios, then I would come back full time, then I would go part time, you know, I was it was symptomatic of the anks. I was having personally in becoming a mom to and especially becoming a mom in that way. I felt so much responsibility that I should be at home. You know, after going through all of that. That's what I should want to do. But it was just always that struggle. So I had a lot of mom guilt for a lot of years, a lot of anxiety with that. So that's kind of why I did all those different scenarios. So I think it was towards the end of 2014. As I look back, I was sitting in a meeting at the agency, and we had had a couple of gals come in to go over trends with us just kind of cultural trends that were happening. And we did a lot of work with financial services groups. So it was related to that. But it was really just trends in general. And so they got to the part where they were kind of covering different careers and things that were happening. We were talking a lot about creative entrepreneurs. And at one point, this was another one of those moments in life when I felt like the sky sort of opened, sitting there. And they said something about life coaching and life coaches, that career kind of exploding. And I just thought, Oh my gosh, I thought that is it. That's what I need to do. And it's funny because that wasn't my first exposure to that either, because I had had the same executive coach Jay prior for years leading up to that, as you all have. You've had him on your show several times. So certainly I had I knew about that. But there was just I don't think I ever thought I would be doing that. But there was that moment when I thought okay, that's what I wanted to That's what I want to do. And it's sort of related back to all of those years of people saying to me, too, you should be a therapist, you should be a counselor, you should be, you know, people would tell me that stuff all the time.
Kathleen Shannon 10:12
And I'm going to jump in and say, you know, even as a young Junior designer at this ad agency, I probably had no place like coming to you with any of my problems. But I remember you were the person that whenever I really felt stressed out about a certain account or client or something that was happening, I would come to you and just say, Can I just bounce this off of you, and you were always so just warm, there's something about your presence. And even recently, my sister and I hired you to come over and just sit in the room. While we talked about some tricky business things. And just having your presence there was so helpful, you are so good at blending what is rational and objective with what is a little bit more emotional and intuitive, which I think is definitely a strength and skill of yours, for sure.
Mickie Lara 11:04
Well, thank you. And that's very true, I used to always have a chair by my desk, no matter where I was, and people would come sit in it and talk to me all the time about either things that work or things personally. So that's just a role that I held. I think when we started this call, you know, Kathleen called me the mama hen. And they called me the mom of the agency. That's just kind of what I became. So it is interesting as I look back, because the whole time, that truly was my personality type. That's why I was there. You know, that's why I stayed because I always thought it was about the people and the culture. And that's what kept me going in that. So I headed down that path I am, I did ended up doing the Martha back life coach training, same one Kathleen did, I looked at all of them. And with that, when I just had this kind of visceral response to it. So I knew that was the way I needed to go. And that's when I think I first started to recognize that to how much I could actually feel my emotions as much as think them. So I figured that out, did that training for the next year, and then ultimately decided to launch out on my own to do coaching and consulting. So I left the agency at the end of 2015. So that took me a long time, obviously, to make that decision to go out on my own and do this, that finally did and right at that same time, I was also approached by someone else as the universe would have it that I used to work with years ago at the same place. And he had gone out and started his own business years before that. And they focused on leadership development, training, coaching. And they had developed a lot of really great tools and resources and content. And that was the piece I felt like I was missing that i thought you know, I can do a lot of the one on one coaching. If I had these other tools, I could also go in and work with organizations more effectively. So truly, it just all came together. That's the giant piece, the giant worldwide piece that I do work with them. And that's kind of where the whole personality side of it comes into play, too. So that's a long version. But that's how I got here.
Emily Thompson 13:18
I love it that you you never stopped looking for what you wanted to do, whether it was like consistently taking personality tests, like figure out if they'll help you figure out what the thing is. Or even like, whenever you were working at the agency and really like redefining that role for yourself and how it was you were going to work you never just became complacent where you were. And I think that's so important for people who find themselves on a career path that you know, is probably designated by someone else, or by some expectations or simply like that's how the world is working at the moment. This idea of consistently having no trying to find your thing until you feel like you've found it because I think we do all have our thing. It just takes some consistent, persistent looking to find it.
Mickie Lara 14:10
I think that's really true, Emily, and I appreciate you saying that because at times I think it probably seemed crazy. Or I thought why don't I Why do I keep looking? Why don't I stop. But I do think that's important to always keep looking for that to keep kind of finding those things that really do fill you up. My husband just said to me the other night, he said you just keep cramming stuff in your brain, which I do. I never hire people
Emily Thompson 14:35
who do that.
Kathleen Shannon 14:38
Well, I love it. So many of us creative entrepreneurs feel guilt around, never being satisfied and always striving or chasing for that next thing and I think that part of maybe what we even have in common Mickey is trying to come to peace with what we've got and working with what we've got and still having desires but also being unattached. Anyway, what I was gonna say is that I think that we have a lot of guilt around, not quite feeling satisfied, even whenever everything looks good on paper, like here I am the VP at this ad agency, I'm able to work flex hours, why am I still not happy? And I think it comes from, you know, probably, especially in your generation, like you said, Mickey, the goal was to go get a job, you work that job, you live your life, right? And then even with Emily and I, watching our parents go to their jobs, have families live their lives, and that's it. There's not all this personal growth, and what does it mean? And I, you know, and so I think I like that about you, too, is that you're, you're willing to explore that. And just like Emily said, to, to keep growing and learning. So okay, I want to get into personality tests for a little bit. This is something I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I didn't understand. How do I say this? I
Unknown Speaker 16:07
put in a box
Emily Thompson 16:10
where this maybe,
Kathleen Shannon 16:13
you know, I think what it is, is that I love I mean, who didn't love filling out those tests in like, 17 that tell you, right?
Emily Thompson 16:22
I was thinking about those, as we were prepping for this. Those are like my early, early,
Kathleen Shannon 16:28
I guess, exposure to personality test, and I used to eat them off. And so it's really great to feel like you're being seen and heard and almost having that label actually feels really good. Like you get a sense of belonging, even from astrology to Myers brigg. Like, you can start to say, Okay, I this is why I am the way that I am. I think that it took me a long time to realize that everyone has different personalities. And the easiest way to explain this is that, whenever I was, you know, younger, I didn't understand why anybody would be shy, which is like the word I use for introverts. And I just assumed that if you weren't an extrovert, there was something wrong with you, which is why books like quiet have gained so much traction, because that's been the common cultural narrative, you see celebrities who are seemingly extroverted, get all the success, right. So, um, I think it's been really cool just in the past, since owning my own business, really acknowledging that people have different kinds of personalities. And I used to make it wrong, that my personality wasn't just like my sister's, who I admire so much for her role in our business, I would almost feel guilty that I wasn't able to do the same things that she was able to do with the same kind of mindset. And then once I, you started to click in and realize, Oh, we have different personalities, and they complement each other in different ways. Amazing. So I want to talk a little bit about maybe just personality types in general, and like, what is your general framework or overview? Like? How can we start to understand our own personality?
Mickie Lara 18:07
Yeah, well, I think a few things that you said there are so important. First, you know, Emily's comment of you not wanting to be put in a box, I want to point that out, too. Because I always want to tell people, we're never trying to put you into a box. Honestly, we don't want that to happen. I feel like everybody's been abused by some personality test at some point in their life. So that always happens. And that's not what I want to have happen. Because truthfully, whether it's Myers Briggs, or another one, you know, we all use both hands, in our life, we all use all of those types, but there is going to be one that's more preferred, and one that you are by nature. So that's what I think is important to understand. But what you also said was having that realization that everybody has a different personality, and being able to recognize that and appreciate that, and really start to understand what that means for everybody else that you're around, just makes such a huge difference. So I think that's where I got especially passionate about it is because of some of the work that we do that I do with teams, especially in team communication, when they can, when we all can really understand each other and how we're wired and why we do the things that we do and how we communicate, it can just make a tremendous difference between the organization being successful, or it can just be a complete disaster. So and it really much of it goes back to that it's a lot of what we say is know yourself to lead yourself so it's really about understanding yourself first, and what your own tendencies are, and your actions and what that leads to, in order to then be able to lead and understand others to. So it's really like putting up a mirror it's like I'm holding a mirror in front of you Kathleen and and you can see that there's broccoli Your teeth, you may not have been able to see that before. So it's what's it like to be on the other side of us, we don't usually understand that. So we can hold that up. And either you can get that broccoli out, or I can get it out. Ideally, you're going to want to get out for yourself. So, you know, that's where it's important to know those things about yourself so that you can start to make changes in some of your patterns that aren't creating positive outcomes and understanding each other.
Emily Thompson 20:26
Well. And I also think, like, once you can, or Once you have identified those parts of yourself that you may not understand like once you shine a light on them, and they make so much more sense. And you can also see the flip side. So I think a lot of people will see one personality trait as a negative, but every like weakness has a corresponding strength. And I think that's one of my favorite things about personality tests is that it doesn't just show you were maybe your shortcomings are or even where your strengths are, it's also going to show you the flip side and how to sort of counterbalance them.
Mickie Lara 21:02
Yeah, absolutely. And there is no right or wrong or good or bad in terms of personalities. They're all important and okay as they are, but you're right, their strengths and weaknesses are challenges for everybody. So it's important once you can start to recognize those, then at least you can see them coming, you can see when some of those challenging things are starting to happen. And hopefully then, you know, change your behavior around that potentially. Okay,
Kathleen Shannon 21:29
so what is your favorite personality test? Which one should all of our listeners be taking?
Mickie Lara 21:35
Well, I'll tell you mine. And there's a lot of different ones. As everybody knows, I've taken a lot over the years, I've taken them multiple times, but I've done Myers Briggs, which is young and type, essentially, that's Carl young, young, in psychology, there's the disc, there's strengthsfinder, there's Colby, there's colors, there's all those different ones. So honestly, I would say the yummy and tie for the Myers Briggs is my favorite. Along with a couple of things that we do naturally, I'm a little biased, but I go through a process or we do after we do a youngin type, and we do what's called best fit. And that's truly going through each of those letters individually with the person or with a group to make sure that they really understand what those mean, and what they are and trying to dig down to the nature of who you are. So when you take a test, any test, it's a snapshot at that point. Okay, so that's not necessarily going to tell you who you are by nature. But it's going to be a snapshot of probably three things nature, nurture, and choice, because all three of those things kind of make up your behavior and your leadership behavior. So I think that's important to note, too. That's why sometimes over time, those tests will change when you take them. You may say, Well, this year I was an INFJ. Well, I used to be an ISF, whatever it might be, well, truthfully, there's one of those you are by nature that stays consistent. But depending on what's going on in your life, and all of those thoughts and shoulds that are happening, even how you were raised, your parents, your religion, your successes, your failures, all of that factors into how you're going to answer those tests. So I would say Myers Briggs, along with best fit. And then one other thing that we have that I love is called Five voices. That's another free online assessment that I can give you all for you to take. But what five voices is, is it takes all of those young and types, all 16 of them, kind of boils them down into five different voices, which are a lot more easy to use on a day to day basis and more accessible in terms of being able to communicate with each other and understand the intricacies about each of those rather than trying to memorize 16 different types.
Kathleen Shannon 23:55
Oh, good to know, universe wins, like I'm in I in TP or you know, whatever. I'm like, I can't remember what that means. No,
Mickie Lara 24:03
I know, it's just too hard for most people. So
Kathleen Shannon 24:07
let's go through this a little bit. Can I tell people about 16 personalities calm is that where Okay, so Mickey had us fill out our own personality tests at 16 personalities calm and we'll include a link to that in the show notes as well. And this is that young Ian 16 type personality so kind of like Myers Briggs and um, we filled ours out so I would love to kind of go through if we have time or I wonder if you can even just give us a snapshot and Mickey of the different 16 like what we see on the spectrum and what it means. But if you if the listeners if you want to go to 16 personalities calm and so that's 16 the number personalities calm. You can take a 12 minute test and it will tell you what you are and it is pretty accurate. I've done this Three times now the first two, I was the same. And then I think that with recent events globally, my personality has changed. Because I care a lot more about facts now than I used. I used to care about, like, everyone feeling respected in what their opinions are. And now I care about facts a lot more than I care about right back.
Mickie Lara 25:22
Right. Yeah, I don't need to respect anybody anymore. Yeah. Okay.
Kathleen Shannon 25:29
So the first one is what mind?
Mickie Lara 25:34
Well on here, let me run through kind of the letters and what each of those mean, although that that way. And 16 personalities is a great little free online assessment that you can take. And I think everybody really likes the way that they bring you the results to their kind of fun to read through and they give you a lot of information. So what you're going to look at is first as extroverted versus introverted. So that's the E and the eye. And really, not what people often think like you said, introverts aren't necessarily shy, we always thought that meant shy or outgoing. what it's really about is where you get your energy. So what's your preferred energy source? So extroverts we often say, are solar powered, they get their energy from others from the external world for being around people. introverts are going to get their battery powered more inside. So they are more about you know, you're going to see introverts can be around people, certainly, but they're going to pull in when they need to recharge, and they're going to do things on their own exercise as a prime example for introverts because that's something that they can go do by themselves that doesn't necessarily get judged. You know, they need to go be alone. That's one thing that they can do. Of course, reading, walking, all of that kind of stuff might be a way that they would do that. That's not to say that an extrovert isn't going to need a break at some point to but then it's not going to be as long and they'll be ready to kind of jump back out and be the life of the party later in the evening, after they've had a chance to come back together. So that's E versus I, for example.
Kathleen Shannon 27:07
I'm okay, so Emily, are you an E or an AI? Are you an extrovert or introvert?
Unknown Speaker 27:13
I'm an introvert.
Kathleen Shannon 27:15
What percentage introvert were you on this test?
Emily Thompson 27:17
55. So I'm kind of in the middle, as I kind of expected, but definitely still an introvert. And where are you at these days? I
Kathleen Shannon 27:27
am 86%. extrovert.
Mickie Lara 27:32
That's not surprising. Yeah,
Emily Thompson 27:34
Kathleen Shannon 27:36
which is funny because Emily and I were just talking about how we've been at some events together recently, and I just had some point shut down. I mean, I feel like my battery's just her face
Emily Thompson 27:47
turns off is how I usually explain it like there gets there comes a point in a day or an evening where Kathleen's face just turns off, and it's kind of fun to watch. But I so I like to look into some astrology and Zodiac stuff. And I actually found out recently that that's more attributed to Kathleen being a Taurus and her bowl energy just being done at some point in the middle of the day. Then her being an extrovert, which I am sure you still
Mickie Lara 28:17
Kathleen Shannon 28:18
Yeah, Emily's Emily's awesome. Like, she can just keep going until 4am.
Emily Thompson 28:24
I do. As long as it really depends on where I am. As long
Unknown Speaker 28:29
as you have a drink, give
Emily Thompson 28:30
me a good cocktail and a good conversation. And I do have no problem going all night long.
Mickie Lara 28:37
That's what Emily would probably find, though, is if she did that with groups of people for days on end. Yeah, then she would probably crash. there'd be some point where that would have to stop for sure. For sure. Yeah. And Kathleen, I'm the same. I'm an extrovert, too, not quite that high. I'm a little more in the middle. But I too, will hit a wall. Sometimes during the day, especially if I'm at a conference with a bunch of people and I'm presenting a lot of it, then yeah, there's going to be a point that I'm going to have to pull in. Also, if you get stressed always get under stress. A lot of times you're going to flip to the opposite side. So I've taken these assessments before when I've been under a lot of stress, and I will test is an AI interestingly,
Kathleen Shannon 29:18
interesting. Okay, and then let's talk about the next one. Okay,
Mickie Lara 29:22
the next one is intuitive, versus sensing. So that is pretty much how you process information. And I think on that test, it calls it observant. Maybe Yep, that's exactly yeah. But the the actual one is an versus s. So ns are the intuitives and ns are very future thinking. So always thinking about possibilities. It's hard. They're thinking about patterns and connections, or they're always kind of making connections. So it's harder for intuitives to stay present because the future is much more interesting to them than the present or the past. Now, Spencer, amen. Yeah, amen. I say the same thing.
Kathleen Shannon 30:01
It's like hard for me to see how could anyone be like more concerned with the past and the future, like, it's so good to have these things out. Because I know who are concerned with the past, right? There is absolutely,
Mickie Lara 30:13
that's the essence said the sensors take in information using their five senses. That's why it's called that. So they're going to be much more aware of their surroundings. Really, it's, they'll know exactly kind of what's hanging on the wall, wherever you are, they're much more about the present and facts and data and analysis. So that's the essence of the bunch, the future is harder for them. It's not that they don't like it, or they don't appreciate vision, but you're going to have to build a bridge for them to feel safe to get there, where the ends are just going to leap across, just tell me the big picture, and I'll figure out how to get there. So that's a different way,
Emily Thompson 30:49
Kathleen, I have to know what you are here.
Kathleen Shannon 30:52
Oh, I'm intuitive, how much 72%
Unknown Speaker 30:56
Emily Thompson 30:56
I would be 80% intuitive,
Unknown Speaker 30:59
which I find
Emily Thompson 31:00
kind of entertaining, because I would have thought I was the other way. But also not
Mickie Lara 31:06
know, I know doesn't sound like it. I'm intuitive too. So I definitely like the future much better. You can see where you need some SS around, you know, in order to kind of keep you on track sometimes and be aware of the present. But I too am on that
Kathleen Shannon 31:22
or SS the people who will like remember everything that you were wearing on a certain day, that kind of Yes,
Mickie Lara 31:29
that's more of an S thing.
Kathleen Shannon 31:31
I'll tell you, I'm always jealous of people who are really good at that kind of recall. And I'm like, I can't even remember what I ate for lunch an hour ago.
Mickie Lara 31:41
Yeah, that's gonna be more of an ass. You know, and it's interesting, a lot of us will marry or opposites to or I need a lot of people that have married their opposites. So that is the case for myself too, on some of these letters, at least. So I'm much more future thinking my husband is much more present. So we just had one of these times where we kind of ran into each other because I just talking about, I'm just thinking about this, this is just an idea. I'm throwing it out there. Well, for him, it's real. So he's either going to be worried about it, or he's headed down the path to make it happen. He's starting to take the steps and I'm thinking, whoa, hang on, you know, I was just thinking about that. So there's a tool that we use called provisional plan and promise so that when you're talking to somebody they can understand am I talking provisionally This is just provisional. I'm just throwing it out there to see what you think. Or is this a plan? We're thinking about this? Let's talk about how we actually make it happen. Or is this a promise that it's 100% going to happen?
Kathleen Shannon 32:40
Oh my god. Yeah, blowing my mind that is so good. Can you say that one more time, it's provisional plan or business
Mickie Lara 32:49
plan and promise
Kathleen Shannon 32:51
and provisional means this is just an idea,
Mickie Lara 32:53
right? Just an idea. Because let's Yeah, that means we're gonna figure it out. Let's talk about how we could actually make that happen. But we're not positive promise means it's happening. 100% we're doing this. So so much conflict happens because somebody is talking provisionally and someone else thinks it's a plan or a promise. So yeah, I find
Emily Thompson 33:13
I talk plan or promise and people think I'm talking provisionally
Unknown Speaker 33:19
go both ways.
Emily Thompson 33:22
I love that those so much. Because everything in terms of like our conversations, Kathleen, like we're just like throwing out ideas. And then we start moving down a path making sure we're moving down the path. I
Kathleen Shannon 33:36
love that a ton. Yeah, that's so good. That's gonna save business partnerships and marriages everywhere. Yes. Yes,
Mickie Lara 33:42
it does. It's so simple, but it's so helpful. I love that one.
Kathleen Shannon 33:48
Um, okay, so then what is the next one? What are the next one? Yeah,
Mickie Lara 33:53
the next two are thinking versus feeling. So that's your te and your F. So this is how you make decisions. So either you come at it from a feeler, which is much more the aspect of thinking about the emotional ramifications of this, the people who are feelers, their ideas and themselves are kind of all one, their work in them are all one their heart, it's hard to separate the two fingers are much more objective. So for them there, they don't mind critique, they'll critique your idea, their objective, their quick decision makers, it is very separate for them. They don't take it personally when they give it out or when they take it. So those two also probably result in a lot of conflict too, in terms of teams and partners and those sorts of things. Because those are two very different ways to approach things. You know, feelers, if you ask them how they want to have constructive criticism. They don't feel like there is anything any such thing as constructive criticism. I don't want any criticism. You know, we're thinkers are thinking, Hey, bring it on. Just tell me what I'm doing wrong.
Kathleen Shannon 35:00
My gosh. So I used to be a feeler and I am now a 56% thinker. So I'm just over the line. And I think it's from working with Emily. She's gotten me really good at, like constructive criticism and feedback and just kind of saying it like it is and not taking it. Personal. I guess that's how I would say it. Um, wow. Yeah. So I'm just barely over the edge there. What are you, Emily?
Emily Thompson 35:25
Same. I'm at 5545 thinking. So I guess I just brought you up to my level high five.
Mickie Lara 35:35
She is gonna make you into her personality type.
Emily Thompson 35:40
mold on you, Kathleen.
Kathleen Shannon 35:42
I feel like by nature, I'm a feeler but that says that I've had to make so what you were saying Mickey about it being nature, nurture and choices. And just kind of practicing being a thinker and making choices to send out surveys, or look at the facts has turned me a little bit more into a thinker. Also, I've been trying really hard not to in mash my own self worth. In my work, I've really actually been actively trying to separate all of my identity, which also comes back to astrology, Emily, and I can't help but go there whenever it comes to personality types, but my son is sitting in my career house for those of you who want to get woowoo with it, which means that a lot of my identity is going to be wrapped up in my career. But I've been actively trying to separate that out a little bit, which I think also probably put me over to the T side.
Mickie Lara 36:35
Yeah, yeah. So that's your nurture piece at this point. I mean, you're in a season of life where you're really trying to work on that. So you know, by nature, you're probably a feeler. I am a feeler by nature, too. I can call up my tea, and I can function within that. But I know that when I get down to it, I you know, I don't love criticism. I do take things somewhat personally, as I've gotten older, that's gotten easier. But still, that's who I am. I come in as an app.
Kathleen Shannon 37:02
So I have a quick side question about taking these tests and answering the questions, because part of it is in how you answer the questions. Is it possible to overthink it as you're filling out these questions? Like what is the best way to take a personality test as you're taking it?
Mickie Lara 37:18
Yeah, I think it's absolutely possible to overthink it. And I had somebody say the other day, you know, I feel like I'm answering it like I who I want to be that happens a lot. You know who I want to be or who I think I should be in my work. And so yeah, I think the best way to do it is you've just got to really try to clear your mind, try to take it at a non stress time, you know, trying really, like you said not to overthink it, to answer it just truly what comes to you first, I would say is another way to think about that. Because honestly, when we go through our best fit process, if somebody's struggling with those, I'll try to get you to go back and think about who you were when you were 16. Let's say Who were you when you were a kid, the Fraser town? Sometimes that's risky. But you know, before all of those thoughts and shoulds come into your life that can make a difference? Or who are you when you roll out of bed in the morning first thing before everything starts to come into play. So that's a couple of tricks, you know, kind of ways that you can use to figure out who you really are.
Kathleen Shannon 38:22
Yeah, on this, like, if you're on a deserted island, who are you? Yeah,
Emily Thompson 38:28
that takes you to the Lord of the Flies. And that's just like a whole other whole other level. I do love this idea, though, of looking at these personality tests, not as like a definitive answer of who you are. But really giving you an idea of what you have what you tend towards so but also giving you the power to shift as needed. I think that's that's probably something I haven't really attached to personality tests before. That is just coming to beautiful light to me now.
Kathleen Shannon 39:01
I know. And what I'm really getting out of this is personality tests give you the language to talk about what you're experiencing or feeling or thinking or just kind of how you move through the world with other people in your lives.
Unknown Speaker 39:15
Yeah, okay, absolutely.
Kathleen Shannon 39:17
Let's do the last two, what are the last Okay,
Mickie Lara 39:19
the last two are j and P. And those kind of are how you move through the world how you live your life. So j is the judgers, the judging, which sounds kind of bad, but really, it has to do more with the fact that you like things to be more structured. You probably make a lot of lists in your life probably have a to do list for the day. You like for decisions to be made not to leave your options open necessarily. And we have one graphic that we use that shows let's say you have a project that you're going to do and you're starting here on the project, and judgers will kind of have a stair step approach to how they do that. Think about a term paper or something that you were doing in college, you probably would map that out and think, Okay, I know this is due, I've got my subject, I have my outline I've got and they're kind of working through it, and they're gonna get it done. Maybe a week before the deadline, potentially, a P is going to approach it completely differently. They're gonna look at it as I have something that's due and their line is gonna be like, I know you can't see me but scrambled all over the place up and down, back and forth, going crazy, until the very end, and then it'll be really fast. And then they're going to get it done right by the deadline. So that's a good way to think about the two and how they're different.
Kathleen Shannon 40:30
I think this is why so many creatives hate group projects or collaborations. Because if you're a j working with a pee when you go to sleep,
Mickie Lara 40:41
yeah, it's really hard.
Kathleen Shannon 40:42
I mean, I really think that some of my all nighters in college it in college whenever I had group work was because I was working with a P and I am a J. I am wait so what are prospects? What is crossing? Yeah,
Mickie Lara 40:55
so judging? The other is if they if they are they like to keep their possibilities open? So prospector I'm sorry, it's Percy. It doesn't say prospectors on there. Oh, I'm sorry. perceiver judging versus perceivers. So yeah, perceivers like to keep their options open. So they are fine with if somebody called you up and said, Hey, I want you to come to a party in 30 minutes, you know, they're good. With that. And a jump and go, Ajay would rather have a little more warning for that they don't love surprises quite as much. peas are good with that. Yeah. And peas typically are going to meet the deadline, or they need to meet the deadline to keep kind of the credibility and trust but there's going to be a very different path for them to get there. It's not
Kathleen Shannon 41:36
going to be easy, maybe don't have kids party in 30 minutes.
Mickie Lara 41:42
That's hilarious. Some do, actually. But that's a whole different lifestyle, you know, and Jays typically will be have pretty good structure in all areas of their life. So it's not like, you're going to be at work and you keep everything really organized, and then your house is going to be completely crazy. Whereas peas are going to have a harder time maintaining that in all different areas of their life.
Kathleen Shannon 42:05
What are you Emily?
Emily Thompson 42:07
I'm a J. But like thinking about this, I'm pretty sure my parents are both peas. Because they are definitely the kind of people who will just like spur of the moment decided to go on a weekend vacation, or those sorts of things. And it always drove me nuts. Like I need to know where I'm going, how I'm going to get there, what it's going to be like when I get there. Like I love having like schedules for things and though I am good at taking vacations and things like that. Without everything being pre planned. I definitely understand the value like my personal value of having all of those things.
Kathleen Shannon 42:38
What is your percentage of Jay 63? Okay, so I'm 55% judging, I think I like hanging out with a bunch of judgers and then me like I would love to be a P and but having a bunch of J's running the ship. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 42:57
Totally agree with that assessment.
Kathleen Shannon 42:59
That's my youngest sibling, personality coming out there. So that's another thing I believe in his personality type within sibling structures. Yes.
Mickie Lara 43:09
Yeah, I think that's very true. And I think when I did it most recently, I'm a J. But I really struggled thinking, am I happy? And I think what happened is, I worked in a p culture for a long time, because I mean, Kathleen, you're a J and your sister's A j, probably, but a lot of creatives are not. And so when you work around that for so long, and those deadlines go to the very end, and you're walking out the door, and you're being handed the creative. You know, as you go, I think I got so much into that, that I thought, well, I must be a P. But truly, I'm a J, because my preference is to have things done earlier that that makes sense.
Kathleen Shannon 43:46
So Mickey, I think we're the same personality type.
Mickie Lara 43:49
So yeah, I'm an INFJ. That would
Kathleen Shannon 43:51
come out to I'm an INFJ by nature, but I'm an E in TJ right now. That's thinking because I'm trying to get good at being letting it go to criticism, right, letting it go. letting it go. not personal.
Mickie Lara 44:09
And what was yours? Emily? I am an INTJ. INTJ Yeah, that makes sense.
Emily Thompson 44:15
Which I totally loved, like reading through the thing on this website, apparently. Apparently, i n t. j's are fictional villains. So whenever you're reading comics, or whatever, most fictional villains are INTJ. So everybody, just keep that in mind.
Kathleen Shannon 44:38
My personality type is described as the commander, which the motto is, I will find a way or make one.
Mickie Lara 44:45
Yeah, that's exactly right. That's because when you're the T if you're an NT, and is that the one you were just yeah, EMT, you're what we would call a pioneer also. So that's a pioneering voice which means very much visionary, strategic You're going to be able to see it, but also figure out how to get it done. And you really like to win in the process of guys
Emily Thompson 45:06
that are lean that both of us.
Mickie Lara 45:09
That's that NT combination. Yes. Oh, I
Emily Thompson 45:13
love this so much. It's so fun to go through this. I've done them before, too, I need to get David to do his. Kathleen, we'd love to see what Tara's is. And it's fun to go through this with someone to help explain a little bit further.
Mickie Lara 45:29
Yeah, it's a lot of fun, too, we actually can break them down even a little bit further, we do what's called type dynamics and predictive leadership behavior that's kind of on a different level. But just to let you know, Emily, for example, you would be what's considered an extroverted thinker. So what the world sees of you is more of that thinking side, they're gonna see you being logical and rational. And then that introverted, intuitive piece means you're always thinking about the future and the possibilities, and you're working everything out in your head before you take action. And then once you do, it's really quick, because you're able to make quick decisions and move on down the path that is me. Nice.
Unknown Speaker 46:11
Nice. It's like you know, me,
Kathleen Shannon 46:13
I know, how do you like remember all this stuff. So let's say we've taken our personality tests. And even as we are making decisions, let's say you're a solopreneur, or you're an aspiring entrepreneur, and you don't have a business partner, and you're not doing this with necessarily within the structure of making sure that you're working well with the personalities within your team, like what what is a good way, like a practical example, to use the personality test to leverage the most out of your experience in your working life?
Mickie Lara 46:43
Right? I think if I was going to do it, which, which, like, the stuff I just shared with you is kind of higher math, as they would say a little bit deeper, when you start to break those down. They're fascinating, because that's when people say what Emily said, I feel like you know, me Are people, you know, it's like you're reading my mail, because you really do understand a person. But I think yes, on a day to day basis, if you can just kind of go through and understand the strength, the weaknesses, what happens to you under stress, I think is important under moderate stress and extreme stress. And I can't remember if 16 personalities spells that out, I can give you guys though, a link to have another place that you can go on our site that's called discovering your true personality. And you can go through those. And there's actually a series of five minute videos about each of the personality types. And it will talk about that your strengths, your weaknesses, and we call it your kryptonite. So basically, how somebody could come and take you out what happens to you under stress. So that's kind of a quick way to look at that too. And just to keep those top things in mind, I think, on a day to day basis, just to kind of keep that in front of you, I think is probably the most helpful.
Kathleen Shannon 47:53
Okay, I want to talk a little bit about the woowoo side of things, because you talked a little bit about how people might think that you're in their heads, but I actually think that you are a little bit psychic. Are you willing to talk about this a little bit?
Mickie Lara 48:07
Yes. This is why I figured that would come up too. Because? Well, because it's you and I know. I've talked about this before. Maybe that's what makes it come easier to me. I don't know.
Kathleen Shannon 48:18
I he's one of the few people that has, you know, just through little clues, like you've listened to the show, and I know that you've texted my sister before saying Is everything okay with Kathleen? And I'm like, does she know? She?
Mickie Lara 48:32
I know that is kind of strange. And it's like sometimes that's all really working. Like this week, I think I've had a lot of that going on a lot of the whoo in the flow. I've texted Kathleen a couple of times with things that I thought well, I was just going to tell you about that. And then it showed up. So it's one of those kind of weeks. Or like you said, I'll see something and I don't know that's part of my connector brain to invoice where I will immediately it's like a Rolodex in my head that goes where I just start connecting all the pieces of that somehow and figuring out who should be talking to who or who might know this. And so that's sort of a another side of me. But yeah, that intuitive piece, I think is definitely there for me. And I think over time, I've begun to understand it a lot more. I think going through the Martha Beck training probably helped that even more so. You know, listening to Marie Forleo this week, I hope there's a lot of similarities there too, in terms of how I try to be still anymore and really hear that or even physically. Now I understand how I feel those things in my body. I don't I think I was completely disconnected from my body for years. I did not get that. I did not understand that whole mind body connection, but it is so real. So all of that to say Yes, I do. I do think there's a little piece of that. And I know Kathleen is here. I do think that I'm a little psychic. You are.
Kathleen Shannon 49:53
So here's my question is how do you how have you begun to cultivate and really trust your intuition? Because I will I think of myself as being pretty intuitive. And I've been having some weird psychic moments this week to like, for example, this morning I went to the gym, and I was telling everyone that I had a dream last night that I was doing pistol squats, which is basically like a single leg squat. You remember at the skating rink whenever used to do the shoot the duck Well, yeah, yeah.
Emily Thompson 50:24
They may have just called it that in Oklahoma.
Kathleen Shannon 50:29
So I had a dream that I was doing that last night and one of my gym buddies was like, I had a dream. I was doing pistol squats last night too, and things like that. Or I had a dream. Maciel find this funny. Last week that while I was on vacation, that I was helping our mutual friend Holly put away her Christmas decorations. And I texted her and my sister and I said that. And she goes, I've been putting away my Christmas decorations last week.
Mickie Lara 50:57
That's so weird. I mean, I say it's weird. But I know I did the same thing with you, because I was just about to send you a text the other day to tell you about the book called upper limit. Because I felt like I've heard you talk about some things recently that I thought, oh, that would be helpful. And that's come up. And then you ask Marie Forleo a question. And that's what she answered with, you know, was upper limit. And I've had several of those this week, too. So I think what I've started to understand even more is, I mean, it's not crazy, and it shouldn't be a mystery. And we are all kind of part of one thing here. So it's just a matter of allowing that I think to come in and being open to that. And really, I find that I have to I do have to take more time to be quiet and to be still and to listen, you know, to just listen for those things and listen for that voice. Or if I'm trying to make a decision. If I'm right, that's where I really struggle sometimes if I'm trying to make a decision, or I'm asking myself a question, to really try to listen for that answer. But also, I love the idea of thinking about one to sit one path that you could take on the decision and how that makes you feel more expansive, versus contracting. You know, sometimes I'll question that too. Am I hearing the right voice? Am I hearing the right thing? I think about it, and immediately if I get caught, I can tell how I feel, if that makes sense if I feel open, or if I feel closed, that's kind of another way that I think as far as the whole, I don't know that the psychic side of it and how that comes about, I
Kathleen Shannon 52:28
have no idea. But it just at certain periods of my life. It just does. And see this is what I think is so cool about you, though, is that sometimes, you know, whenever you might text something, or your quote unquote, psychic, I do think that you're really just good at connecting the dots and looking at all the clues and you've been through the Martha Beck training. She talks a lot about being an Africa and going on. What is it safaris with professional African trackers like people who know how to find animals in the wild, and they're absorbing all the clues from which direction the wind is blowing to literal tracks in the ground to smells, things that might even be imperceptible To the untrained eye and perhaps even imperceptible to these trackers, they just get the feeling because there's only so much stuff we can absorb at one time, right? Like there's so many clues at any given time. It's just what are we putting our attention to, and really learning how to put your attention to the more subtle things that have information in them.
Mickie Lara 53:35
I think that's very true. And such a good point, which honestly, to circle it back to personality type for an NF j for either one of us, that is a trait of ours to to always be making connections. That's something that we're just very aware of. So we are taking in a lot of those things that maybe somebody else isn't. And we're making patterns and connections of those as we go along. So yeah, it may be that I've heard you say something or I've seen something or you know what all of that starts to play out in my mind. And then all of a sudden, I think, ooh, I should text her with this. And then you know, Pierrot shows up. So yeah, I think that's true. Just being open and more aware of that. And I think, you know, as I've gotten older, again, I think that's gotten easier for me, I think, you know, more spiritually, and all of that I think plays into it, too,
Emily Thompson 54:29
and will and I think to even take it back to what you were talking about earlier, with like your entire path. It's all about awareness. And I think these personality tests are really great tools for bringing that extra layer of awareness to who you are and how you react to things. And I don't know the I know that the more aware I get as to who I am, how I react to things that are around me, also my customers and the people that I'm engaging with online the more aware I am, the better I am at making making the right decisions, the right decisions for me and the right decisions for my business and the right decisions for the people who engage with my business. And so yeah, I guess we can just wrap it all up in awareness. It's using the tools, you have to learn as much as you can. And then using all the little connections that happen in your brain to make the right decisions. Now, being self aware, and being aware of those around you, too, I
Mickie Lara 55:26
think you're exactly right. Awareness is such a huge piece of it. Definitely the first step.
Kathleen Shannon 55:31
What are some of your favorite books and resources around personality or even personal growth? Since that's such a hot topic, not hot topic, but something that you are a student of life whenever it comes to personal, like, whatever, whatever? What are some books that have really changed your life whenever it comes to personal growth or and or personality and or anything on the Wu spectrum?
Mickie Lara 55:55
Right? Gosh, I know, I have so many than they all start to run together.
Kathleen Shannon 55:59
They'll say it's on you. This is not something I asked you to prepare for. So
Mickie Lara 56:03
that's all right, I was looking behind me because that's where all of mine are. And I didn't want to forget some of those titles. But I do love Tara Moore's playing big, which I know you've had her on there. Honestly, I love that book. And so I use that information and share that one a lot. I'm also reading Pam grouts. More on the woowoo side of things. I'm reading her Think and Grow Rich right now, which is her new one. And
Kathleen Shannon 56:28
it's it thinking grow rich or think they are rich,
Mickie Lara 56:31
it's thick. The original book, that was mean it back in the 30s, I think is when it was written was called Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. So that's kind of a well known book out there. So hers is Think and Grow Rich, which is around the idea of gratitude to and how that plays into everything, which that is also something that I've more recently, I think added into my life. Not that I haven't been thankful before, but I'm so much more aware of if you stay in that constantly, what a difference that makes. So loving that one too. Martha Beck, who I'm going to step back here for a second. I don't want to forget those steering by starlight. I did love that one too. That's another one. Oh, my gosh, and ours. I love five voices.
Kathleen Shannon 57:19
And so five voices is by giant and
Mickie Lara 57:21
that's Yeah, by voice by giants. Yeah, that one. There's five voices in five years. But five voices is the one that lends itself more to personality types. And trying to think what else is on my nightstand right now? Because I always have several going at once it looks really obnoxious. I'm about to I want to try to reread because I think I started it years ago seat of the soul
Kathleen Shannon 57:45
has this has been someone just told me about that too.
Mickie Lara 57:49
It's funny, because I've decided if something comes up two or three times in a week or so then I really do need to look at it. And that's the one by Gary zouk off. And that's supposedly the one the one that changed Oprah's life, you know, years ago, was theater, the soul, I think she had him on like 17 times, or 27 times some huge number. So I want to go back and read that one. So that's on my list. And then upper limits. Another one I want to read because that's come up like three times this week, too. So yeah, any of Martha backs? I would say too, I love all hers.
Kathleen Shannon 58:24
Absolutely. Um, all right, well, where can our listeners find more from you?
Mickie Lara 58:31
Okay. I do have kind of a little micro site right now blog. That's part of the giant website too. So it's Mickey Laura dot giant dot team, is where you can find that one. So that's kind of a little introduction ways to contact me. Links over to the other two. So you can see a lot of the things that we're up to. Perfect.
Kathleen Shannon 58:53
Is there anything else you want to share?
Unknown Speaker 58:56
Mickie Lara 58:57
no. If I can think of anything else, it's been a lot of fun. I could go on forever. So thank you.
Kathleen Shannon 59:02
I know I can talk to you all day. This is so fun to get to catch up. And I'm excited to have drinks with you and Jay, tomorrow. Um, I think, oh, that's something else I want to mention is that I think that we're both very attracted to Jay and his work, which is he has his book lean inside. Yeah, which is great. But he also really talks a lot about law of attraction and abraham hicks and I think a lot of his work is rooted in that which also makes me think of I'm wondering if Pam grout stuff is kind of rooted in that of like vibrating at the frequency of gratitude so that you right, get more things or not even so that you get more things because then it doesn't even matter bla bla bla bla bla,
Unknown Speaker 59:43
Kathleen Shannon 59:45
circles around manifesting.
Mickie Lara 59:46
Yes, it is. And honestly, that's another one that I just finished redoing was the law of attraction, the abraham hicks version. I listened to all of that on Audible hours of that, which is fascinating. So I've been doing some of that lately. too. That's why my husband says you just keep cramming stuff into your brain. Mickey, it's
Kathleen Shannon 1:00:07
been so much fun having you on the show. Thank you for joining us on being boss.
Unknown Speaker 1:00:11
Emily Thompson 1:00:13
Yeah, thanks for being here. I'm gonna go learn more about myself.
Kathleen Shannon 1:00:21
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Emily Thompson 1:00:42
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