Episode 24 // How to Fall in Love with Your Business with Jennifer Dopazo

Kathleen Shannon 0:04 Get your business together, get yourself into what you do, and see it through. Emily Thompson 0:10 Because being boss is hard, winning work and life is messy. Making your dream job of your own isn't easy. Kathleen Shannon 0:18 But getting paid for it, becoming known for it. And finding purpose in it is so doable if you do the work, Emily Thompson 0:28 being boss, a podcast for creative entrepreneurs from Emily Thompson and Kathleen Shannon, welcome to Episode 24. How to fall in love with your business with our guest, Jennifer deposito. This episode is brought to you by fresh books cloud accounting. Kathleen Shannon 0:45 You guys today we are interviewing our friend and creative comrade Jennifer deposito. I know her as Jenny. So we're gonna call you Jenny. But you guys this is going to be a really great episode, especially for any of you creatives who are feeling overwhelmed by your to do list and, and whenever it comes to like what you're supposed to be doing or should be doing for your dream job. But before I introduce you to Jenny, I need to tell you that we have a being boss bundle available for you. So it's my DIY coaching for creatives email subscription plus, Emily's Get your shit together email subscription, all bundled together. So you get 22 emails delivered straight to your inbox full of our best tips, tactics and worksheets to help you be boss in work in life. Go to love being boss calm slash bundle to buy the bundle. Alright, so back to Jenny. I first met Jenny at a design retreat in Palm Springs last year. And I think it was even after the retreat was over. I was having breakfast with my family at what was that hotel that we were at? Jennifer Dopazo 1:51 The Parker? Kathleen Shannon 1:52 Yes. The park with Yes. Jennifer Dopazo 1:54 Yeah. After the the conference. Yeah, Kathleen Shannon 1:57 as soon as after the conference and the Parker is this really cool hotel. And it's kind of I mean, it's a little Swank. It's more swink than the hotels that I'm used to staying at. So we decide to go there for breakfast, they have a really good breakfast. And and this is right, whenever my son Fox was starting to get old enough, he was almost the year where he started having preferences, and basically throwing fits in public. So fox is kind of throwing a fit, and I'm super embarrassed. And my husband went and took him for a walk. And then I look over and I see Jenny like enjoying a breakfast all by herself, like being ruined by my baby. And I go over and I say hey, weren't you at that design retreat, I was just that. And so we kind of chatted then, but we really got to know each other. After that we had a little Skype date, and got to chat. And that's over you shared with me and the project that you were working on, which is a video series called The fabricant way, which is interviewing local makers and shop owners in Brooklyn where you live. And then I watched the videos as they were released on YouTube. And you guys, it's one thing like, whenever you're talking to another creative entrepreneur, he's like, yeah, I'm working on this project. Like a lot of times, it's like, oh, yeah, sure you are. Because a lot of times, it never happens, right? But then it actually happened. And I was blown away by the quality of these interviews, and just even Jenny, we were talking right before we hit record about how you were like I was, I did not set out to become any sort of TV personality. But I feel like the the fabric and way could be on the Discovery Channel like it is that good. And I just am so excited for you. But what I really want to talk about today and what I want you to share his your entrepreneurial journey along the way, and to tell us a little bit more about the secret that you uncovered that helped you fall back in love with your business. Jennifer Dopazo 3:45 So yeah. Oh, thank you. I'm so excited to be here and like just chatting with you. And yeah, it's it's amazing how, after the conference, it was just I was having my moment. I guess it was a boss moment. I was just like, I need it they in a beautiful hotel that it wouldn't ever be on and just relax. And, you know, I don't know how that sort of like personal treat. And yeah, remember that we really connected after that. And then we met at the at the airport, remember? Unknown Speaker 4:12 Oh, that's right. I Jennifer Dopazo 4:13 know. And I'm like, Oh, hi. Kathleen Shannon 4:16 Because the Palm Springs airport is super tiny. Also, Jennifer Dopazo 4:20 I know it's super cute. But it's also that that whole thing of like after you go to an event like that you I feel like sometimes you're so drained with so many things like great people you mad conversations and anything that had happened that you need, at least me I need that kind of like 24 hour reset where you know, like you don't think about business you don't you become a girl again. I just like girly. And that's it. Let's just turn off the brain until my baby ruins your breakfast. You know what? No, I don't I mean, I have a small nephew that I'm always with. I'm just like, I don't care about that. And he's adorable. Oh, um, but yeah, so Just, you know, my, my, my story is basically, I discovered that design could be a career After dropping off Business School. And my parents have been always very supportive. And when I was, I remember when I was like, 10, I saw this painting at a neighbor's home, when I went back home, I told my mom that I wanted to know how to paint. I don't know why I don't think it wasn't even like a, you know, like a famous artist or anything like that. I think it was just me by herself. And then my mom, just like, she enrolled me into these classes. And I, you know, I spent a lot of time painting after after school, but then, you know, with University, and you know, picking a career and exams, getting more, you know, test getting more harder and harder having to study, I had to stop. And eventually, you know, I was miserable. I was just I knew, and I could see my friends were like, super excited of that job with a suit and amazing office and the bank. And you know, I was doing great, but it was just like, it wasn't for me. And then I was, you know, I've been very lucky to be surrounded by people who just like, open my eyes to like, different options. And I remember he came to me, and he was just telling me like, I'm so glad you dropped off Business School, because that's not for you. And then I was like, Yeah, but I don't know what to do. Like, my parents are like, What is going on? And then he was just like, happy consider going for illustration. And I'm like, that's what a career that's a hobby. Like that. He's like, no, people actually leave up that you can do it. And I can introduce you to songs, people who have their songs in schools and all that. Kathleen Shannon 6:36 And wait, and where was this happening? You? So you grew up in Venezuela, right? In Venezuela? Yeah. Okay. And then did you go to college there, too. Jennifer Dopazo 6:44 I did. So my undergrad was there. And an amazing school like, it's it's very, you know, Bauhaus oriented design is what you have to respect and principles, and, you know, typography, and I don't, you know, we were not using the computer like programs onto the first year, because he had to really know how to design a font by hand, how to build a book, how to do the whole type of graphic, you know, this whole, like, old school concept, and it was hard. Kathleen Shannon 7:14 That's exactly how my design education was, my Jennifer Dopazo 7:17 God, I was coming back home crying, and my parents were so confused, because I'm like, wait, it's designed, it's supposed to be easy, like, aren't even art school. I know. And I was just crying. I'm like painting my, you know, my chromatic circle, just like, you know, I couldn't sleep like I was just losing weight. Like, the whole thing was just say, Oh, my God, what am I doing, but you know, it was amazing. It was it was the best four years of my life. And, and again, I ended up like falling in love with this whole design possibility, like this possibility of actually leaving by doing this. And, you know, the great thing is that also at that school, it's on graphic design, you get illustration, product design, sound design, so I was just like, you could experiment with many, many mediums and projects. And then, you know, after that I ended up working with with one of my professors is an amazing friend now. And he had this small studio, and that's when I started learning how to code on myself, because projects were coming our way. We're like, yes, we're gonna do it. And then the client will leave. And we're like, oh, God, we need to, like, see how to make this, you know, to make it and, you know, I, it was great. I was, I worked with him for at least three years. And then I had my brother was visiting us back home, and he was living here in New York at the time. And he was just like, have you considered just like going for grad school? And I'm like, again, grad school for design. I don't think that's great. I was just like, Oh, yes, it is there. You can actually do an MFA. And I was just like, well, but I come from this, you know, these like small school, kind of like, I don't think it goes to that level. And I have Yeah, I ended up applying for Parsons for a master's in design technology, the last day, of course. And I remember coming to New York to visit my nephew, who at that time was only six months old. And I was just taking a hanging out in your with my nephew. And I ended up like walking into Parsons, just to see how it would feel to like, be there. And I ended up running with a dean of the program and eska was just so amazing. And she's like, Oh, wait, did you apply? Let me just check my computer in and I'm like, are you gonna break my heart? I think she's like, oh, welcome, when are you moving? And I'm like, I know. I know everything. I mean, I don't know. I'm just very lucky. You know, like, I just end up in this like, situations where things just happen. And it's kind of a lesson you know, just like every one something just go do it like or at least figure out like what is the one step that maybe will get you closer Kathleen Shannon 9:56 and it could literally be a step into the building which is called Parsons School of Design. Jennifer Dopazo 10:01 Yeah, I know are like visiting my nephew in the same city where the building is, you know, it's, and again, I, for me wasn't a possibility. I mean, for me it was just like something that it was too big. And it's not because like, Oh, I come from South America, it's just that. I mean, in my country design is not really a professional career. It's like a technical career. So it was just like, yeah, I mean, you, you don't get like real diplomas or anything like that, even though that is hardcore education. But, yeah, so then I, I think I realized that I moved out home, like, after a year, it was one thing. So I think in because of course, then you can I got into this program on my one goal was, was just to take the most crazy classes that I could never take, you know, things that had, and again, because I'm very grateful that I had that I had such a great design education that I was like, oh, amazing, I can just play with things, you know, like, circuits, and wearables, and, you know, processing and just doing all this interactive things. And that's what I spent my two years doing. And it was great. It was also hard, and it was great. And, you know, it's, it's, it's been quite like that type of journey of just like trying to experiment and, you know, see, one thing will lead you to the other. And I, you know, some days I say that I'm not a risky, but I know that there's been like decisions on my team, I'll just do it, we'll figure it out. Kathleen Shannon 11:22 So okay, so you got your masters at Parsons. And then after that, did you start working for yourself as a designer or? And just to clarify, you specialize, or you are an expert in graphic design? And then branding? And websites? Is that correct? Jennifer Dopazo 11:37 Yeah. So the thing is that my business is kind of like two sides. So I do I do graphic design and branding for small businesses. But then I also have, I also offer consulting in UX UI for like, corporate companies and startups and all that. And, and again, it's because, um, we, you know, it's kind of like something that I was doing already, even though that didn't have like, you know, the training or the terms to do it. But that's something that I got really into also graduate school. And that's kind of how I maintain my balance, like, between corporate clients and the small clients. And, yeah, so that's, that's kind of how I work nowadays. Alright, so Kathleen Shannon 12:16 I want to know a little bit more about maybe some of like, the biggest challenge when it comes to being your own boss, and one of your emails that you sent to me, you talked a little bit about getting lost in the maze of shoulds. So tell me a little bit more about that. Jennifer Dopazo 12:32 Yeah, that's my big thing right now. Um, so when I, after being here in New York, I graduated from from grad school, and I found this amazing internship at IBM, which is a media lab here in New York, and allows us, that's my dream, that's what I'm going to do, I'm going to be an artist in residence. That's it, it's settled. That's what I'll do. And Michael mandiberg, who at that time was a fellow, he contacted me, and he's, he was just asking me to help him in this amazing project he did, which is teaching people graphic design tools by teaching the principles on history of design. So it's like learning Photoshop by learning history of design and art. Because this whole idea of, you know, we are to focus in tools and not so much in the history. So I know we have this kind of like similar training, and that there was some another world and out the door that was open for me, because then I ended up like, an open source conferences and like, in, you know, like, in all these residences, and so the thing is that, at that point, I have to live like this double life for at least six years, what I was just, okay, if I'm in New York, I have, you know, you put your head of the freelancer or the consultant and you meet with people, you do the graphic design work, or the UX or whatever, then I would just schedule a month where I could just fly out somewhere like Spain, or like, even in South America, to work with my other group of people, like artists and hackers, and you know, you name it, and we'll just do this sort of, like new media work. But there was a point where I was just, I need to bring them together, you know, it's, I cannot keep doing this, like two sides. And it was two sides, because sometimes I will go to, you know, companies and during the meeting, they will like, see, in my resume that I had, like some residencies or something and they look at me like, why, you know, like this, this look of like, you should just be doing design work, not just being an artist, and I was just, that was kind of, I mean, it was eye opening the way that how sometimes the industry works, which you shouldn't care about that. But then I said there has to be a way what I can just bring these two together and keep my balance and I started reading around and that's when I when I just saw the shiny objects of being online. I'm building an online business only and you know, this whole term of like passive income and it's so easy You could do it, just follow the steps and, and I, you know, I basically fire my consulting clients and be like, I need to try this, I need to see if this works, I need to figure it out if I can just make sense of what I do. Um, and then you know, you name it also in everything, the webinar, the freebies, that anything, anything, and I was like sauce, they're like eight things like, and of course, like, I would just put something out there, like crickets, and you're like, Oh, god, what am I doing or like, blogging and trying to figure it out, like, you know, hot terms, the blog about, you know, like, all these mistakes, when you start reading all these blog posts or Twitter, like what people tell you what to do what the experts said, that you should do. And, you know, that also led me to send very mixed messages as well, as a professional as a person, you know, because you have to market yourself, you have to sell, you have to do this, and that and, and I started getting clients coming my way that I wasn't really a good fit for them. You know, and, and it was not about just like taking the work just to take it, he was basically something that we don't, we're not aligned, which is, you know, I'm not the best fit for you. And I was, it was kind of heartbreak a little bit. And I felt a bit, you know, sad in a way that Oh, God, I was, I mean, I guess me was a mistake. And I should go back to my double life and just keep it that way. And, you know, that was some of the moment when I was just like, I'm gonna turn off the computer. First of all, I'm very unpopular online. So I'm not going to keep trying, because this is a waste of time. And I just, you know, I just turn off my computer, and I decided to just go and hang out with cool businesses, I'm asking them tons of questions. And, you know, even like bringing home, like their catalogs or menus, their business cards, anything that they will have. And I was just like, there's so much material here, there's so many things that I wish people could see. And just see that there's another way of doing things, but it's not just they're not, they're not blueprints or methods or shortcuts, it's just, it has to come from here. That's all like, and people will follow you. And then I have a crazy idea from like, I'm just gonna, like, go back to art, and maybe just do something about this sort of branding. But now I was just basically going out and finding this amazing group of people. And I be like, Oh, you have a great story. And your business is just awesome. Like, I want to know more about you. And I literally felt like stalking them, like reading every article and interview they would have and, you know, just show up, I started showing up everywhere, like a crazy woman, you know, in a very hot summer and be like, Hi, you know, I have this idea that I don't know what it is, but I want to tell your story. Because most of them were like what? No, and again, because the whole idea of like, I wonder how many people came to their shops and studios, pitching them a project that they will do and maybe never happened on, you know, it's, it's tricky because you are in charge of their image. And I don't know that, that just make me be inspired again, in a way that I was, you know, this is the type of thing that I want to work with. And even if, if I get a client that it's a bit lost, I know that if I introduce his client to them, or what they do, or the way they manage their businesses, it's gonna be like, life changing for them. So yeah, so it became this. I mean, again, it's something that that it's, it's very selfish, why I started doing this, and I just, I just wanted to hang out with them. I'm like, I want to be your friend, like you are awesome. Like, people need to know what you're doing. And again, they're very local, very local community. So I'm like, I get it that the people around, you know, you. But I want everyone to know how awesome like your product is, or why you did this or where you're coming from, or like, your lessons or your failures and all that. So that's that that really like, was a process of me. I guess it was a healing process, just like figuring out that I yeah, I mean, that was a path that I just tried something, it didn't work for me. And they'll say that it doesn't work. It's just it didn't work for me. And it was just trying to figure it out my own way, which is kind of also related to, like the guys that I interviewed, they, they were figuring out their own way of like, building their businesses. Kathleen Shannon 19:26 I want to talk for a little bit I love how you just kind of said I'm not popular online, because so often, I think, to build this six figure business that everyone is talking about in this online model in this there, people do sell blueprints, and they do well, but sometimes it does feel like it ultimately comes down to feeling like you're in high school again. And that really it's a popularity contest. And so yeah, of course, if the most popular cheerleader starts an online business, she's gonna make a ton of money. That's just the least how I feel sometimes as the person who's always voted most nonconformist, but I love what you said about bringing, if you just follow your heart, that it doesn't matter about following someone else's blueprint, you just have to follow your own heart. And so then you started your series, which is called the fabricant wave, which is interviewing local artisans and makers and really highlighting their story. And I love that it was born out of just a sense of curiosity. And again, to bring it back to the high school analogy, you're like, forget the cheerleaders. Obviously, I'm not one of them. Let's go hang out with the Freaks and Geeks and see what they're up to. And let's make our own little game of cool kids, like kind of let's redefine it. And I feel like that's exactly what you're doing at the fabricant way. So, um, tell me a little bit more about then, whenever you started that did you have I kind of want to talk about like the technical logistics, because it's easy to think I want to start a YouTube series of just highlighting these cool local people. And you're talking about you're going in and kind of pitching them on the idea. But technically, like, how do you coordinate all of that and get it all together? Jennifer Dopazo 21:09 Yeah. So one of the things that I was very sure about is that I was gonna try to make this videos myself, or try to learn how to be a filmmaker or try to No, I was just there, Mike. I mean, it was a moment that I'm like, I know that there's someone out there from my friends that will love this as much as I do. And I'm just want to focus on what I, what I think will be my strength is just talking to them. That that's all I do. Because we tend to like new project, okay, I need to learn this, this and that and just build it. And you know, it's, and for me, quality was one of the main things not only quality, I had these visions of, you know, I remember sending my director Danielle, who's a great friend, by the way, and I met him a year before that, at this restaurant, residency here at a knife, which is in your foundation of the arts and the Spanish consulate. And he's, he's super great. We've done like projects before, I want to I was just like, you know what, I'm just gonna invite him for coffee. And I'm gonna talk to him about my idea. And he's a filmmaker, he will tell me if if he's gonna be like, this is total crap, or I don't know anything. I was just like, I need someone from the industry, which is true. So tell me what he thinks about this. And I'm gonna tell you, like, every time I would just talk to these guys. I think like, I still don't, I mean, I do know what it is. But I know this idea will just change and change and change depending on who we talk to. So we sat down at this coffee shop, and I was just like, I want to make a video or something. I was just like, Okay, so what do you need? Is it you? Do you need me to bring a camera and put in front of me? I'm like, No, I have this idea that I want to just go to studios and film these guys working. And that's when we started. Like, he's huge. He's amazing. And he's like, brainstorming with me asking me 20 questions like, you want to be on camera or not? What's your idea? My, my initial idea, which was very like, again, super big. It was just that I want to, I want to organize mini workshops with these guys have their spaces, I will film it and they will have them talk. That's a logistical problem. It's like, Okay, I need to meet all these people. How long is it going to be like, the whole idea of like, episodes online, they lost this amount of time before people get like, a little bit bored and all that. And, you know, I was very lucky because, of course, he asked me, Do you have a team to do this? No. It's just me chatting with you. Do you want to be my team? And he was just Okay, so we need like, and he was just like, okay, so we need a minimum team just to do this. And he because he works in film. Of course, he went to his collaborators, right. So our team is Danielle, who's a who's the director. He's also the editor. He's also the foot He's like, you know, he's one of many other things as well. We have another camera and sound. And that's it. But of course, these guy every time, every time we showed up at any studio, they will bring like four or five cameras, like he was just everywhere. That's why we have so many nice angles and and I told him you know, we need to be experimental and I trust your God and I trust your skills and your you know, your professional I talk I'm not telling you what to put the camera or like he had a panic, I can send you videos of ideas of videos that I've seen that that just like really moved me but you know, I'll I'll give you that credit. Sort of like leadership to do it. And we also have a person in in Spain doing the music. We also have like original music for each episode. I know. Emily Thompson 24:53 Oh, and I love the music. I was listening to them. I was listening to some earlier and like I listened to the music. It's fantastic. So high five, do your friend Yeah. Jennifer Dopazo 25:02 Because, you know, it was just a matter of the episode, right and the mood of the space and all that. So how you just make the, because again, for me was just like guys, it's all about experience and making them more awesome than they are. And it's funny because I, I did a small show just to present the project and all of them were in the space, which was really nice, because they didn't they kind of like I heard about you, but I didn't know you and all that I didn't know like, the sort of like, again, maybe they're like online celebrities, but they haven't seen each other. I like seeing them together like taking sections together and being like we should work together. I was just like, oh my god, I'm a proud mom. Like it is amazing. Yeah. Kathleen Shannon 25:41 Well, and I love whenever you're describing the collaboration, and we even did a podcast episode on collaborating. But the actual spirit of collaboration is that you can build something bigger and beyond what you could ever imagine with someone else, then if you were to do it by yourself, I think that whenever it comes to collaborating a lot of creatives, especially creatives who like to have control, probably like a lot of us. It's your, I think the fear of collaboration is that someone else is going to ruin your vision. But really what happens more often than not, if it's the right collaboration, is that that vision just expands and becomes bigger and better than you could have ever imagined by yourself. Jennifer Dopazo 26:23 And mostly when you can go to mediums that you're not used to or like maybe you wouldn't go for because that's not what we do, right. And that's the thing, like I could have done a website or like photo essay or something like that. But that's the idea. Like if you can just make your idea even bigger, because you can bring someone who has that extra skill that you really don't have. It's just kind of like that's like the magic point. That's where like things are just like, you know, they're going to flourish and it happened. Kathleen Shannon 26:50 So the fabricant way I've only I'm not caught up on all of your episodes, I need to I'm probably going to like binge on them this weekend. But they're typically about what 1010 minutes long. Okay, so they're about 10 minutes long. And the ones that I have watched, of course was, I think your first one which was interviewing a guy who does neon, like neon lighting and signage. And I never knew that I cared about neon until watching this guy's story, which is so cool. And then of course, I watched the one where you go to the sex shop. Unknown Speaker 27:22 I want I wouldn't do Unknown Speaker 27:25 that. Yeah. Jennifer Dopazo 27:29 That's been a favorite. Those girls are the favorite of the season. Unknown Speaker 27:33 excels, right? Jennifer Dopazo 27:35 It's just that they're so amazing. And I love it because some one of them when I met her the first time she was just like, you know, hanging out, leave her, you know, in her from there. So she's like, let's do this. I can talk for hours. I used to be a bartender, I love talking to people pick up people come here and they just talk to me didn't even have to buy anything. And it was so much fun. Because you and I you know, it's kind of like the the most like girly sort of like, Girl Power episode. And it was just so amazing. Kathleen Shannon 28:02 What are some of the other artisans and makers that you've interviewed? What have some been some of your favorite episodes. Jennifer Dopazo 28:08 Um, so they're all my favorite in different ways. So we have Matt Dillon, which is our neon King, and he's such an interesting person to talk to. And he's a beekeeper. That's what he does now, too. He lives upstate New York, he, he's a beekeeper and he like he's really connected to nature. And he, you know, it's kind of like these other, he's in another level. His story is really beautiful. And I will always remember how he keeps he says that clients are his teachers, I think that is like, because it's like they come to you, they will teach you something, there's something you need to learn about you as a person as an artist that if you don't, it's kind of like that idea of like, if you don't do something about it, now, another one of those will come your way. So just be very aware of what you know, they it's kind of like this idea of like, they teach you your boundaries, they teach you your limits, they teach you that idea for some time someone come to you and you're like, No, we cannot do that. But instead of doing that, like okay, let's just like get back at you in like a couple days. We'll try to figure it out. And those sorts of things, which I think it's so amazing what he said. Then we have Daniel star which is a chocolate maker, and he has these beautiful chocolate factory in Bushwick and it's raw and being in chocolate and he's all about chocolate and he's so aware of like it's an it's an aphrodisiac, it's it's delicious. people crave it and he's just he owns it like he showed up with like a chocolate you know, a necklace with a chocolate kind of like pendant on like, Oh my god, you're amazing. Like, you know, this whole and this whole idea that he used to work in finance and he one day quit his job travel around the world and he's like, I want to be a chef and I hate it and he started cooking and just put in chocolate anything's and his bosses were like you kind of just put toggle on everything. That's insane. Make it taste bad. And he just started making tacos for his mom and his friends just you know, at home. And they have like a library that they just like a community space and that's mellow pages and is and for them, it's just more, it's stronger that idea of how important local communities are like how supportive they are and like, where they are where they are because of the Kathleen Shannon 30:24 Today's episode is brought to you by fresh books, fresh books is the easy to use invoicing software designed to help creative entrepreneurs get organized, save time invoicing, and get paid faster. So one of the great freshbooks features that I want to share today is time tracking. I don't personally build my projects based on the amount of time that I spend on them. But it is so good to know how much time I am spending on each project that I do and freshbooks has great tools to help you with that. You can record your billable hours, you can use team time tracking. So if you have multiple team members, they can log their time by project, you can track time with multiple rates. So if you have different staff rates, or project rates or task rates or even flat rates, you can track your time that way. And you can also monitor team progress and know how and where time is spent which is crucial if you are growing your team. Stay on top of your business with a clear picture of its financial health. Try fresh books for free today go to freshbooks comm slash being boss and enter being boss in the How did you hear about us section? Alright, back to our episode. So how has recording the fabricant way and you know, you've really been able to build this community and you've been able to experiment and you've been able to expand your vision, how what has that taught you in a write comes to like coming back to your day job. So you started this passion project, what has the fabricant way taught you about design and branding, and even your own dream customer? And even maybe going back to that online business model? What have you learned along the way? And how are you applying that to your business. Jennifer Dopazo 32:07 Um, so what I've learned, it's, you know, it's finding another group of people that are passionate about what they do in a way that they actually make a living. And that's, that is the most inspiring thing you can find, you know, again, we monkey who's a guy who makes jewelry with vinyl, things that people will just throw, it will be in the trash, he's just making something beautiful, and, you know, making art with it. And he's been successful. And interesting enough, I used to, it used to be, you know, my side project, my passion project, and it has nothing to do with my company. And then eventually I was just like, you know, it is because it tells a lot of what I stand for as a professional event. Because these are the businesses that I love the people that I do want to support. And I want people you know, to just want to, I want people to, like see one thing in any episode and be like, one that, you know, even if it's one of my, my, you know what, I want my space to be full of people or I want my clients to be like that, or I want people to love my product that way. And for me, it's it's become I mean, it's kind of becoming this Manifesto, even for my company, you know, like, I things that I couldn't put in words or maybe wouldn't be as compelling as you're seeing these guys in their natural environment, you know, their studios and their spaces. I think it's very powerful. And Funny enough, it's it's led me to opportunities like professional opportunities of just building like marketing campaigns with on video Kathleen Shannon 33:33 course it has, of course it has Jennifer Dopazo 33:35 I know. But like that was something that when I sat down like, No, I'm actually the first time that happened. I was in a meeting and a co worker who was there he was just like, by the way, she has a serious she produces and I turn it on, I'm like, What are you doing? What are you doing? And I was just like, all nervous and read. And he's like, No, she does just so want to tell you about it. And the guy was like in front of the table. He's like, really, because we've wanted to do a video for such a long time, but we don't know anything about it. I'm like, Oh, I can bring you my guys and they'll do it. You know, it's it's any Sadie she's like, Wow, it surprised of how you can just offer more, you Kathleen Shannon 34:14 know, and it goes back to what you were saying about letting your passion be your blueprint because I think that a lot of us, myself included, Emily included, anyone I ever talked to about the uncertainty of being a creative entrepreneur, all of us crave a blueprint. Like if only there was a formula that we can plug ourselves into and come out on the other end being rich and happy and popular and successful and all of that that would be awesome. But the truth is, is that it usually is just one step at a time. And if you're following your heart and doing what you love, the money really does follow. One of my favorite documentaries is by about Wayne white, and it's called beauty is embarrassing. Have Unknown Speaker 34:56 you seen it? No. Oh, it's Kathleen Shannon 34:59 amazing. I I think it's on Netflix. And so everyone listening, you have to check it out. But what happened whenever I watched this documentary is kind of what happens whenever I watched the fabricant way, where you see someone who is so obsessed and so passionate about their art or what they're making, that it makes you question what you're doing as well. And it makes you ask yourself the question, am I passionate about what I'm doing? How can I be as obsessed with my craft, as this neon King is with his with making neon or as passionate about branding, as these ladies at the sex shop are about all their awesome sex toys? Unknown Speaker 35:40 You know, so? Yeah, I mean, Kathleen Shannon 35:43 I know, maybe I'm in the wrong business? Not really. Jennifer Dopazo 35:46 So I think it's just that, you know, it's, I think it's good to have a daily reminder somehow, because we'll fall in that it's just success. I mean, again, like, I think, for me, success means that I wake up and I don't see work as work somehow, like, I really need to love it and wake up and be like, Yeah, let's do this. And I'll just be like, Oh, another email. And it's hard. And it's hard to do it. But it's, it's kind of like that way of how you also try to, like, hang out with the people that are really going to be the ones that make you love what you do, and not just dread it and be like, let's just get this out of the way. And, you know, it's not easy. It's just one step at a time. It's a lot of patience. And, and there's a thing where I guess we're just surrounded with too many sudden success or like, you know, kind of like formula formulas. And yeah, we read that everywhere. But again, like, that's not, you know, it's not always like that, or like, if it is for some people, that's great. But I mean, again, it didn't work for me. But I don't think you're in the wrong business. It's just like, you know, Emily Thompson 36:54 oh, Catholic to do some sex toys, I'm Unknown Speaker 36:56 sure. Kathleen Shannon 36:57 Now you're just saying like, I think I should maybe I just want to go work at a sex shop? Not really, though. I'd be so embarrassed all day. Were you embarrassed a little bit during that episode? Or are you like more? rave about that sort of thing? Jennifer Dopazo 37:11 You know what? No, I think that God, you know, what's funny, the guys were the ones who were a little bit like, very, like, dropping and we're like, What is going on? You know, like, and, and my, my Daniel came to me, he said, Are you sure? Because the idea was that we're gonna have this beautiful man do some like show or some like, Japanese, like, you know, tying sort of techniques, and he couldn't make it. So some compliments. It's like, well, we're gonna do a show on tail. Or we're gonna play with you. And I'm like, What? Okay, well, you can play with me, but it depends on how you want to play with me. You know, we'll just like, we'll just do a demo. And then Daniel comes to me, like, super serious. Like, I'm not sure this is gonna be online. And I'm like, Well, I don't think it's gonna be something embarrassing or like, insulting to anyone. It's just kind of like, you know, the fun part. I don't know. I don't know what, maybe something came to me about this, whatever. You're reading this both, you're gonna really like pretend that you're like, not gonna, like, do it. But then, you know, again, these guys were like, chopping things. And we're like, are you okay? Yeah, sure. Kathleen Shannon 38:17 So what are they for the people who and maybe I don't know, maybe we shouldn't do a spoiler alert. But what did they end up doing? Jennifer Dopazo 38:25 To you? So yeah, so they blindfolded me, they put some handcuffs on me. And they started explaining some of the toys like, their favorite toys. So of course they have. It's an amazing store, like, and it's not only about sex about being sexy, and feminine, but also kind of like feminist. So it's, you can find jewelry. You can find beautiful clothing, bro, but it's also the sex part. Right? So they actually call themselves a sexy shop. And so they picked up their favorites, like the bestsellers and all that and they blindfolded me, they just put some handcuffs on me. And so they're like, explaining, like, you wrote this, and they start explaining why you do it. What, like, what happens to your partner, like, you know, different things. And it was just like a 10 minute thing. And they were, you know, there were no news and everything. I mean, I got banned on camera was kind of funny, but you know, that was one comment of a friend of mine. She's Unknown Speaker 39:18 like, you got Jennifer Dopazo 39:19 spanked on camera. That's it. You're done. I'm like, Yeah, I guess I don't I shouldn't be ashamed or anything by now. But yeah, that was just basically showing their things. I would have this and this is what it does. And eventually they will like, try it on me or something like that. It's nothing like hardcore anything like that. Unknown Speaker 39:38 And made it to YouTube. So it's fine. Emily Thompson 39:41 Yeah, now only the whole world can see it. It's fine. I do want to ask you really quickly. So I love the idea that you started out in Business School, and that you ended up going for design, and you work with businesses, but also this project is very Business focused. I mean, you are asking, you were asking these business owners and these entrepreneurs and these makers and these doers like, why it is that they have chosen, you know, this path to be like how it is that they live, and how does it they make money. So I love the fact that in a way, you've sort of come full circle back to this idea of like, you are, you are encouraging people to share their business models with you in a lot of ways and how it is that they have made their own business model, and made it work for them for profit for living and supporting, you know, their employees or their communities and all that. So do you have anything to say about that? How it is that you, you weren't going to do business you were going to design, but now you're doing business? Unknown Speaker 40:48 I guess it's that idea of just showing people that making a living, it doesn't have to read the most traditional way, maybe the ones we know, and there's people doing on it, things are very unexpected, again, neon, neon like that, or, you know, making jeweler with vinyl, like things that you you would imagine like, Oh, that's kind of you know, that idea. Like when people say like, Oh, it's very crafty, but in a way that it sounds like you can make a couple of bucks with that. And you know, that's a that could be a side project. So for me that interests on showing how you can just be very successful by doing things that are not the ordinary sort of like business. And that's why I really attracted me to them. Emily Thompson 41:30 Yeah, I think that's great. I think that's, that's huge. And then something that I know, Kathleen and I have talked about a couple of times, and I even talked to my clients sometimes about like, our generation has learned how to do business in the most magnificent way. And it's definitely out of necessity, like we can't go out and get corporate jobs very easily anymore that are going to take care of as well. But the fact that we figured it out. So in a lot of ways, like if you had finished that business degree, talk about useless box, Kathleen Shannon 42:01 open that way anymore. Well, and it may have just boxed you into another formula of how things should be. When really if you just kind of make up your own way, sometimes it's more innovative and more disruptive than if you were to follow a model. I want to talk really quick about your Kickstarter project for the fabricant way. So that is launching on June 2. Yes. And then how long is it running for? Jennifer Dopazo 42:26 Because it's gonna be, it's gonna be the full month. Okay, for a full month. Kathleen Shannon 42:31 So and our listeners listening to this episode, you have just a few days to help Jenny out with her Kickstarter project. What do people what's kind of the outline for the Kickstarter? What do people get if they support the fabric and way, Jennifer Dopazo 42:45 so it's gonna be amazing. I already have the fabric guns for second season ready and waiting for us to just come by and like, you know, be part of it. And we, so the different rewards that I'm planning on, it's just, I see this, like at this movement, so it's just making you part of it, and welcome me welcoming you to our fabric and sort of like way of like, what we wish people could do businesses. Um, and the support is basically, you know, yeah, having, letting us tell more stories of these guys, when amazing things and thriving and inspiring more entrepreneurs just to see that there's many, many ways of being successful. And, you know, maybe it's kind of like, chews up fabric and waves sort of thing. Yeah, so it's gonna be exciting. I'm really excited. Um, season two, that's kind of like a big deal for me. I Kathleen Shannon 43:36 can't believe I'm saying that. But yeah, it's amazing. It's so exciting. And we'll be sure to include links to your YouTube channel on our show notes at love being boss calm and we'll share a link to your Kickstarter project so that if people want to support the fabricant way they can. And I also want to mention that you're going to be hanging out in New Orleans with us at our being boss retreat, vacation, we haven't decided what to call it quite yet. But our being boss get together, we're all hanging out down in New Orleans together and, and so all of our listeners that are coming to that as well, we'll get to meet you there, which I'm excited about. And that will be in October. Is there any other final advice that you have for our listeners whenever it comes to being your own boss and being boss in work in life? Jennifer Dopazo 44:27 Um, the first thing that I'll say is just be patient. I know we want things to happen faster than we want it to. But sometimes I think we need to go through a path just to make things work. Be gentle to yourself, because, you know, it's hard, like it's gonna be we're gonna have you know, we have hard days good days and that has to be a moment where you know that it's enough for today and just maybe take the day off and take care of yourself and surround yourself with people that love you and support you and and i It could be from, you know, from your mom to a co worker to your partner, anyone that can just be there for the holidays. Because if it is hard work, but it's, it's very rewarding. So yeah, I think that's that's kind of it and if you have one thing that you really want to do a project, anything, just figured out a way of like how to make it and just try to do it. I mean, that's kind of what I did with the fabric and way and it was. It's so amazing. Like, I feel so amazing right now about doing it that I will just encourage everyone just to take that one project that you've been thinking about and reach out to people ask for help as as for your friends if they know someone that might help you do it and just, you know, make it a reality. Kathleen Shannon 45:44 Hey, guys, I wanted to tell you about some new fun that we're doing coming up this fall, Emily and I decided that we wanted to go on vacation to New Orleans, one of our favorite cities in the world. Unknown Speaker 45:56 And we thought wouldn't it be fun Kathleen Shannon 45:58 if we invited you to come along? Go to being boss calm slash Nola and learn more about taking a vacation with us. We hope to see you there. Emily Thompson 46:09 Thank you for listening to be involved with Emily Thompson and Kathleen Shannon find Show Notes for this episode at love being boss calm. Listen to past episodes and subscribe to new episodes on iTunes, SoundCloud and Stitcher. If you like our podcast show us some love by reviewing being boss on iTunes and share it with a friend. Do the work. Be boss and we'll see you next week. Perfect. What do you do? Are you wiping your nose? Your nose Kathleen Shannon 47:06 recording yet? Okay. Emily Thompson 47:11 Perfect.