Face Your Fears Like A Boss

Kathleen Shannon 0:04
Get your business together, get yourself into what you do and see it through.

Emily Thompson 0:10
Being bosses hard. Lending work in life is messy. Making a dream job of your own isn't easy,

Kathleen Shannon 0:17
but getting paid for it, becoming known for it. And finding purpose in it is so doable if you do the work. Being boss is a podcast for creative entrepreneurs. Brought to you by Emily Thompson and Kathleen Shannon.

Emily Thompson 0:32
Hi, I'm Emily and I own indie typography, where I help passionate entrepreneurs establish and grow their business online. By helping them build brands that attract and websites that sell. I help my clients launch their business so they can do more of what they love, and make money doing it.

Kathleen Shannon 0:50
And I'm Kathleen, I'm the CO owner of brave creative where I specialize in branding and business visioning for creative entrepreneurs who want to blend who they are with what they do narrow in on their core genius and shape their content so they can position themselves as experts to attract more dream clients.

Emily Thompson 1:09
And being boss as a podcast where we're talking shop, giving you a peek behind the scenes of what it takes to build a business, interviewing other working creatives and figuring it out. As we go right there with you.

Kathleen Shannon 1:21
Check out our archives at loving boss calm.

Emily Thompson 1:25
Welcome to episode number 32. This episode is brought to you by fresh books, cloud accounting. And today's episode we're going to be talking all about fear. I'm going to show you how to find the courage to work through the scary stuff so you can be boss.

Kathleen Shannon 1:41
But first, let's talk about our sponsor freshbooks. So we recently surveyed over 600 of our boss listeners, and one of the biggest stresses that they all have in common is money, money, money. And trust us you're not alone. A lot of creatives ignore the money part of their business because it's just too overwhelming to get organized. But freshbooks is here to help you run your business and make you look like a pro while doing it. freshbooks is built to support the needs of growing businesses. In fact, on average, freshbooks customers double their revenue in the first 24 months. ignoring your financial issues will not make them go away you guys, it'll just make them worse. Fresh books cloud accounting is safe, secure and robust enough to handle all of your accounting needs. But simple enough that even as creative folks can get a hold of our finances, make bank like a boss and try fresh books for free today. Go to freshbooks comm slash being boss and select being boss in the How did you hear about us section when you sign up? Alright, on to today's episode all about fear, which is one of my favorite topics to talk about. And so today Emily and I are going to be talking about our own biggest fears as creative entrepreneurs, and the patterns of fear we've seen from the hundreds of creatives, we coach, and you guys stress counts as fear too. So if you're feeling stressed, this episode is for you. Because stress is just fear in disguise. So we're going to be showing you how getting specific about what you're afraid of will help you find the courage and clarity to get back to work like a boss. So Emily, what are you feeling afraid of? Or what what are you so you don't seem very scared. Like you're just not like a skinny person. But I do think that you can have stress in your life. So what are you afraid of? Or if you're not feeling especially scared? What are you stressed about right now? Oh,

Emily Thompson 3:51
stress. It is funny that you say that I really thought about it like that. Um, but I don't really feel afraid of things. But I do get really stressed sometimes and I'll have bouts of like sincere stress. So I guess at the moment I'm feeling most stress in my life around actually I guess around buying a house. So we we found out yesterday like what we're pre approved for which is like, many high fives when around like yay for building a boss business that supports my life.

Kathleen Shannon 4:24
Yeah, well, and it's hard. I mean, this could be a whole other episode. But as a as your own boss. Oh, as someone who loves buying houses for fun. It's actually my it's actually one of my side hustles is real estate and um, and it's really hard to get approved for loans whenever you work for yourself, especially in the first two years. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, my

Emily Thompson 4:47
first two years is has been hard and that was always our thing before is you know, doing it within the first couple of years is super difficult and doing it as a creative entrepreneur is just hard in general anyway or as a self employed person, it's really, really isn't that difficult, it is difficult to do, there are lots of extra steps and getting extra paperwork together. I've told a couple people, I've never felt more in my life, like I just wanted a job. Because then the whole house buying process would be so much easier. But we have found out what we're pre approved for. So that stress in my life has completely just sort of gone away, because we've just been sort of like, swimming around, in a way. And

Kathleen Shannon 5:32
every time we get together for recording an episode, I'm like, where are you? Yeah, I

Emily Thompson 5:37
know, I'm always somewhere different, which has been a lot of fun. But it has created some stress in my life not having not having a place to put my toothbrush down, as has been a big pain point. I just want to brush down and walk away from it, and it'll be fine. So yeah, so it is so soon that will happen. But um, so in life, one of the big, big stressor for me has been, has been getting a house, but that's underway now. And in business. It's funny, we had our first real sort of business meeting yesterday, since before we left on our trip, because I was gone for between 40 to 50 days, somewhere around in there. And Cory was my developer and the client support guy has been traveling the South doing Drum Corps, he's a, he's a drum corps teacher. So we both been out of the studio a lot in the past two months. And so we were able to sit down and really look at all the things that have happened and the growth of being boss, and the growth of indie shot biography and the main thing that we'll be launching soon. And I think my biggest fear in my business right now is that we're growing too quickly. Or growing, not too quickly, growing so quickly that I don't have the skills to keep up with it. Which is why I recently hired help. So um, yeah, growing too quickly, I think is my current fear. And it's a real one. What's the stress?

Kathleen Shannon 7:10
I feel? I feel you?

Emily Thompson 7:11
Yeah, well, you so what about you, you? You're, you get stressed? I've seen it happen a time or two? What about you guys, when you you are known ish around the online interwebs. For being a pretty fearless bit. Like you, you hike to Everest and you buy houses for fun?

Kathleen Shannon 7:41
I pray today that I'm fearless. I am a very afraid all the time I just work through it. I I don't let the fear dictate what I do or don't do. But more recently, I have been feeling more afraid. And I don't really know entirely where it's coming from. I'm gonna blame hormones. I don't know. But yesterday. I think my biggest fear right now is FOMO. Which, for those of you who aren't in on the cool kid lingo, I'm not pleased. a fear of fear of missing out. And I think that for me in life, it stems from becoming a new mom. So I'm afraid I'm either if if I'm not missing out on watching Fox grow up, you know, I'm missing out on business opportunities. So kind of having to choose, like really prioritize things and choose things because I can't do everything. And, and that's another thing is I've been trying to do everything and I'm starting to feel like I'm not doing any of it very well. So probably the same thing that you're kind of feeling as far as growing too fast and not having the capacity to actually execute or keep up with all of it. But my fear of FOMO missing out is kind of I think whenever I dig a little bit deeper is not knowing what to say yes or no to I'm getting a lot of opportunities coming my way, especially as we grow the podcast and grow our businesses. I'm getting more and more opportunities. So even speaking gigs, which ones do I take? Which ones do I not take? Dream clients, you know, but I mean, okay, another real fear right now, if I'm getting completely vulnerable, is we're usually booked out and have a waiting list going months out. Right now. We are one month into the second quarter of the year, or is it third quarter?

Emily Thompson 9:46
I never know which March, April, May June 3, your one month, third

Kathleen Shannon 9:50
month into the third quarter. And we haven't booked a new client yet for this quarter. Which is that we've never experienced that. So right now. Afraid that All right, well, this is whenever this like, awesome streak of business just ends. And I hate even saying it out loud because like, what if I'm manifesting or making it true? So if any of y'all need branding? Oh, no, but you know, it's funny because I was just telling my husband last night I am I'm not not working though, like, I'm still busting my ass. So I having faith in the fact that if you're busting your ass, you're going to see the benefits in your bottom line. I just have faith in that. So I'm actually really not worried about that. Um, but yeah, not not knowing what to say yes or no to, especially when it comes to new opportunities. And then I don't have a fear of failure so much, but a fear of not hitting my goals are like, in other words, I'm afraid of never being Beyonce.

Emily Thompson 10:52
You would.

Kathleen Shannon 10:55
I've always been a pretty morbid person I wrote my first Living Will and Testament, whenever I was five years old, I got very specific about my funeral and what music I wanted to be played and what I wanted to be wearing, and what I wanted my tombstone to look like. Lately, I've been feeling this, like sense of urgency that life is too short. And, and then also, and we've even gone there before, whenever we're coaching our own clients, I think you and I both have said this, like, we're all gonna die. But the doubling thing is like, okay, we're all going to die. So just do it. But also, we're all going to die. So what's the point? I like? Right? wildly swinging between those two concepts? Like, what's the point and while I better just do it, right. So those are my big fears, right?

Emily Thompson 11:50
This is about to be a really heavy episode guy.

Kathleen Shannon 11:54
I should have brought my life coaching on this while I was making a glass of wine, but um,

Emily Thompson 12:02
alright, so so I have a fear of growing too big too quickly, and not having the capacity to make it work and therefore fail. And doing it, you have a fear of missing out, which is, which is huge. And you know, I think something we all have a little bit I mean, just earlier today, I was reading through some emails and the client was talking about how she you know, just says yes to every, everything that comes her way, because she's, you can just sort of afraid of missing out on the next big thing. So it's something that that we coach on, but we also deal with. And we also the survey that we did with all the all the people, a whole bunch of being boss listeners, like really shattered a whole lot of light on like real fears for everyone beyond that. And let's let's go through some of those, because we have a good list of them. The first of which, first of which is money.

Kathleen Shannon 13:01
Yeah, the money fears. Go deep. And yeah. One of the things I always say is money is energy. Right. That's one of the ways that I've gotten a handle on the concept of money. But, um, but yeah, the fear of money, which is usually that there isn't enough where I got there won't be enough that it's going to dry up that I can't pay my bills,

Emily Thompson 13:28
or that it's being misused. That's, that's, I think, a common fear of people, especially like families where one person manages money and other people spend it. Are you the spender or the manager? I'm neither. How about that,

Kathleen Shannon 13:45
so you don't spend or manage your money?

Emily Thompson 13:46
David manages but David pays all the things like it's really funny when we were on our trip. I did not get my wallet out of the car a single time. Like David paid for all the things and that's just sort of how it's okay if I don't have to think about money like I'll make it all day long. But I don't want to think about it.

Kathleen Shannon 14:09
in the same boat, I'm the same way but I'm, I'm pretty good at spending it too. So another fear around money is talking to clients about money. I think a lot of people are afraid of talking about money. So I think human conversations like this are good for we're talking about money and our fears of money and our successes with money because we're both pretty good at making money right? So um, I want to touch on the fear that there isn't enough. There isn't enough money. Yeah, that's where my money is energy mantra comes in

Emily Thompson 14:43
it is and this is a mantra that I even repeat to myself constantly like whenever I'm in a slump and not making money then maybe I'm not putting energy into the right place. I mean, like the money is energy mantra is genius. Kathleen, one of your best yet

Kathleen Shannon 14:59
has So right now like with the braid clients with our first quarter, I'm sorry, our third quarter going a little bit slow. And it's also summertime and all of my friends I've talked to you are kind of going through

Emily Thompson 15:14
a similar thing, right? That is a thing that I have always recognized in my business, the month of January, February, and July, August, are always the four lowest month in income, like I can always usually pretty bet that I'm not going to book a client in July, every year. Like it's just sort of a thing. So don't be afraid.

Kathleen Shannon 15:37
No, so that's good to hear. And I think that's why it's important to talk about money. I think, especially for women talk about money, I know that we have guys and girls listening. But whenever it comes to talking about money, I think it's something that could serve all women to talk about a little bit more. So find someone you trust and talk to them about money. And on top, top numbers, and but again with someone that you trust. And so that's whenever I'm coaching my clients, I was asking what their dream salary is. And they'll say $60,000 a year or one of them set $35,000 a year another said $250,000 a year, the number is different for everyone. And the way that you get to the number is by actually looking at your money. So I know that we're always talking about fresh books, but that's how I'm able to look at my money and easy to see charts. And I also use mint.com on my phone and so I can see what my budget is there. I know that you guys use you need a budget why NAB

Emily Thompson 16:40
yet, please? Why now? And looking at looking at things like that, like I just said, like, I don't look at the money. And that's such a lie. Because I don't manage it. And I don't really even spend it that much. But I do at least once a week. Like tell David like where are we at? Like, Show me the money? Basically, uh, where are we in? And how much we've made this much? How much we've spent, what the differences like, what do I need to do? Like, do I need to book another project? Can we hold off and just sort of hustle out our current projects at the moment, knowing your numbers is super important. And there are tons of online tools to make it super easy for you. So you don't have an excuse.

Kathleen Shannon 17:24
So if you're feeling a fear or stress around money, try using the mantra money as energy. So if you're saying things like there isn't enough money, or I hate money, or money is a necessary evil, replace the word money with energy. So then you would be saying stuff like I hate energy. Does that make sense? No, or there's not enough energy, which might be true. But then Okay, so for me right now, I'm feeling a little spread thin, if I if the statement, there's not enough energy feels true, then it means I need to focus my efforts. And if I can focus my efforts in a money making area, then the money will follow. And, and then talk to someone that you trust about money. And so for me, I'm going to follow my own advice. And I'm actually going to sit down with my husband tonight and just kind of go over our finances and just see where we're at. And what if we do have a slow month, and I'm going to sit down with my sister, who's my business partner at braid and just say, okay, where are we at, because if they're not freaked out about it, and they're the money managers in my life, then there's no reason for me to be freaked out. It's just that I'm not looking at it.

Emily Thompson 18:29
That is this is so true. Whenever we were on our trip. The first two weeks, I felt like we were leaking money, like I felt like we were just sort of spending it. And I was a little stressed out because we had no idea how much it was going to cost to travel the country and do all the things that we were doing. And I was I was feeling super stressed out about it to the point where one day I was like, I need us to look at the budget, David, like, what is happening? How much are we just leaking? And we looked at it and we had spent considerably less than I had expected or that we usually would in a given month, like by that point. So just another one of those ways how looking at the numbers can help you deal with stress that may be completely unwarranted.

Kathleen Shannon 19:14
Alright, let's talk about another fear. The another biggest one that comes up all the time is the fear of failure. And I have a hard time relating to this one. I think you do too, Emily, because we don't really frame up our failures as failures, reframe them up as learning experiences. And I think everyone knows that by now. I feel like enough brilliant people have talked about the fear of failure, and learning from failure and failure is good. It means you're growing blah, blah, blah. Like we all know this, right? So I want to get a little more specific about maybe my fear of not hitting my goals, because to me that feels a little different than the fear of failure, even though it's pretty much the same thing. So coach me through that. Emily,

Emily Thompson 20:00
well, it's putting a cap on, on your goals like, oh, launching a website. For example, if you just want to launch a website, you launch a website, high five, you made it. If you want to launch a website and reach, you know, 150 people in your first day, which for any launch websites, lot, can be a lot for any website. You know, reaching those goals that you set on launching a website can make you feel really down when you did the big job of launching a website. So So thinking about your goals, in terms of in terms of numbers can definitely shift your perception of success and failure. And being gentle with yourself, I think is really important whenever setting first time goals. So this is something whenever we launched the podcast, we Oh, I need to we need to go back and look at some of those some of those goals that we had, you know, we wanted to get like, I don't know, 5000 downloads in the first like, I don't know, month or something like that. And launching something and within the first month getting I don't remember what the real numbers were. But let's say we got you know, 3000 downloads like not quite to our goal, but still pretty damn amazing to launch a podcast and get 3000 downloads in a month or whatever it was. Um, so let's let's get specific. Kathleen, what goal do you have?

Kathleen Shannon 21:38
Yeah, okay. So here's one like, here's one is one of our shared goals is growing the podcast and specifically growing, let's say our newsletter list. Yes. And so one of the things that we are trying to do to do that is design worksheets, maybe for every other episode, right? This week, I just cannot get to it. And it didn't happen. And so now, Kathleen, did you fail? I failed. Did you though? I mean, yeah, yeah. And I was like, sorry, you know, I'm getting to

Emily Thompson 22:12
you do it. But I don't know.

Kathleen Shannon 22:14
I was at the end of the world. I mean, I have like, kind of reframe my priorities is getting a worksheet out so I can get newsletter subscribers going to make me $100 today, you know, and so No, not necessarily. It'll make me $100 later, I'm sure. Right today. Today, I need to bust out a blog post about branding.

Emily Thompson 22:39
Yeah, I think what you have to do whenever you whenever you work as hard as creative entrepreneurs do, and you can really get down about like the bad things like you can have 100 successes, but one failure is going to kill your day. So I think one thing that you have to keep in mind is like prioritizing your failures a little. So you know, if you were to have made that worksheet, high five success, but you fail that meeting a big client deadline, like I don't think I would have forgiven you for that.

Kathleen Shannon 23:17
I know I know. And so yeah, it is. I yeah, it is important to prioritize. And so that's whenever I start to think about kind of the work life stuff like what is at the end of the day. Okay, getting morbid again, let's say I die tomorrow. Am I going to regret not having done a worksheet? Or will I regret not spending an extra 10 minutes faking out Fox so that he'll kiss me? Right? No, or, or making sure in other words, making sure that my family feels loved. Now, this is where it gets tricky, though. Because a lot of people say this, like what really counts at the end of the day is that your family feels loved. Okay, yes, but I don't want to quit my job and become a stay at home mom necessarily, right. So I don't think that like so then I imagined my life on a different trajectory. Like let's say quit everything. And I really did focus on my family and I became a stay at home mom. And my house is like all Pinterest worthy, and I was cooking amazing meals every day. Like what I feel a sense of accomplishment at the end of the day, like if I died tomorrow, then how would I feel I would probably feel like oh man, but I wish I I knew I had a gift for changing the lives of other creative entrepreneurs. And I didn't do that. Yeah, you know, and so it is a balance for sure. And a little bit of a blend. It all counts. But I guess whenever it comes down to like specifics, little worksheets or even client disappointments or not hitting a certain benchmarks, dollar amounts metrics. At the end of the day, if you die or You're going to feel bad about it.

Emily Thompson 25:01
Right? Well, and and it still goes back to that idea of each of those failures is a learning scenario. You know, if you actually today with the worksheet, like I emailed back and said, note, we're never promising a worksheet unless there's going to be a worksheet.

Kathleen Shannon 25:16
Like we promised that didn't Yeah,

Emily Thompson 25:19
yeah, I think we've I think we put it in the episode. And then someone ended up tweeting us asking us for the worksheet. And then we were like, Oh, yeah, worksheet. So and it simply became a learning experience. And that's the thing, maybe, maybe your failures teach you how to prioritize like, if you are not meeting, you know, website traffic, then you shouldn't be focusing on website traffic, maybe you should be focusing on like social media to grow that website or something like that. It's about it's still no matter what it is, if when it comes to failure, whether it's missing certain metrics or weighing out you know, the blend of life and work, it's about seeing the things that you do fell out, fell at and prioritizing and fixing them. So that if you were to ask yourself, if I were to die tomorrow, would you be happy with simply saying yes.

Kathleen Shannon 26:17
Another thing whenever it comes to failure is like, what is the worst case scenario? Alright, so let's get specific about this worksheet that I failed that like I didn't get the worksheet died. Right. What's the worst case scenario there? We've disappointed a few listeners. Yes. And then they're like, and they're forgetting about it, though. like five minutes later. Yeah, eating out is like, Hey, where's the worksheet? Oh, sorry, didn't get done. They're not stewing all day over it. Like I might be right. You know, so just I just need to let it go. Like the worst case scenario is what I'm saying is that it's not that bad. It's like a bruised ego. And right, slowly, a little bit sad that I disappointed. A few people.

Emily Thompson 26:56
Yeah, we talk about the worst case scenario a lot. And I want to talk about this for half a second. Yeah. Because I have found that my like, my talk about the worst case scenario is making me think about some really fucked up. I don't know like, it's just become such a habit to think I'm like, I don't know. We're buying a house. So worst case scenario. Ooh, that could be a lot of bad stuff. Like, what if we get the house and the foundation is totally crumbling beneath it? Or? Or like, have you guys ever owned a house before? I haven't owned a house? No. Okay.

Kathleen Shannon 27:34
So because you're talking about stepping on like, worst case scenario, like the foundation's familiar, like, well, you get some years put in worst case scenarios, even not that bad. They're tedious.

Emily Thompson 27:44
It is. But I think the point is, that I think you should I think at the same time, you should also weigh in the best case scenario, because we do talk about the worst case so often that I think it's really only super beneficial if you're pairing that with the best case scenario. So the best case scenario for us for getting that worksheet is now we know not to promise it unless we have it. Um, but also will help us hopefully develop a system for making creating worksheets even easier, so that we can more easily get those things out. So So think about think about your worst case scenario in hand with your best case scenario, so that you don't find yourself saying you've got really messed up stuff.

Kathleen Shannon 28:30
And I think that like Okay, so my worst case scenario always boils down to dying, right, like, absolute worst case scenario is I die. But then the best case scenario for I don't know, launching a new project or taking a risk and saying yes to something that might spread me thin a little bit, is that I become a bajillion heir, or the best case scenario is that I make a lot of really great contacts and really great friends and I'm able to grow as an individual or as a business. So looking at best case scenario and worst case scenario as far as like what to say yes and no to for me is huge. And, and they're both at the like part ends of the spectrum. So usually the true you're

Emily Thompson 29:14
going to find yourself somewhere happily in the middle,

Kathleen Shannon 29:17
but it's like okay, let's say before we started this podcast, and if we had looked at the worst case scenario is that we got zero listeners, and maybe we quit after. Right? You know, a few episodes

Emily Thompson 29:28
right?

Kathleen Shannon 29:29
Best case scenario is that we get dozens of emails a day saying you've helped me quit my job you've helped me build like a boss, you've helped me get over my fear of money, you know, all these things that we're actually getting emails about, right? The best case scenario

Emily Thompson 29:45
ends up being better than your best case scenario. Total possibility as well. So So yeah, the fear of failure. Deal with it. Really is like my best piece of advice because Is it failure, it's important, it's necessary you are going to fail Lily yesterday was jumping off the diving board into the pool. And like hit her head. And it was not a bad one. Like I got up and ran over there. I'll give good mom. And it was it was fine. Um, and it was one of those things where David walked by and he was like, won't be the last one. Because it Lily wants she loves her scooter, she really wants to buy a skateboard and like really dangerous things and like, failure is going to happen, you are going to fall down, you're going to bump your head and break bones, you are going to lose clients, you are going to have customer service nightmares, and your website is going to I don't know crash one day like those things happen. Um, so get over it, expect it because if you expect it, it's easier when it comes and then find the lesson in it and grow from it.

Kathleen Shannon 30:50
So one of our boss listeners and braid method clients Her name is Stephanie's The aveti is a culinary artist and I'll include a link to her blog in the show notes. She teaches cooking classes. And one of the first things that she makes her clients do is dropping an egg on the floor, or like even burn a cake on purpose. Because failures in the kitchen will happen. And I think that's like a good place to think about failures because it's so tangible, that okay, I can try cooking this meal. But what if it's a disaster and tastes awful? That's, you know, that sucks. Because then you're not eating? Well, I think that's something that everyone can relate to. And she's like, it's gonna happen, but it shouldn't keep you from cooking in the kitchen. So she makes some break an egg on the floor burning cake on purpose just to show it's going to happen. It's not a big deal. You can move past the failure.

Emily Thompson 31:50
Yeah,

Kathleen Shannon 31:50
definitely. Oh, yeah, tactic for our listeners go throw an egg on the floor.

Emily Thompson 31:56
There you go. No, I think of my monitor for failure is like I don't even phrase things in terms of failure anymore. Everything is an experiment. your entire life is an experience experiment and the monitor being tested change. Like you're not doing something to do it right the first time you're doing it to see if it works. And when it fails you change. Say amen. Amen to that. Because it is super important test and change. Don't think of it as failures. Think of it as an experiment in life in business. Hey, bosses, I'm going to take a second to interrupt this episode to tell you that if you're liking being boss, and you're ready to level up your game, we've got something just for you. Check out the being boss bundle. It's Kathleen's DIY coaching for creatives. And my Get your shit together series bundled together at one low price just for you bosses. You can find that at love being boss comm slash bundle. Okay, back to the episode.

Kathleen Shannon 32:59
Alright, so the next fears that I see a lot of they go hand in hand. And it's hilarious because they're opposites of each other, which are the fear of what everyone will think. But then also the fear that nobody cares, or that nobody is going to buy your stuff or read your blog or listening to your podcast. So the fear of everyone and nobody at the same time. Right.

Emily Thompson 33:24
It's, it's a real thing. I think that sounds like I know, that's something that you coach on a ton. It's something that I hear all the time. Let's talk about what everyone will think.

Kathleen Shannon 33:36
First. Yeah. So whenever you're afraid of what everyone will think you're usually afraid of two or three specific people aren't you? Yeah, yeah. So if you're afraid of what everyone will think, which has happened to me, like whenever I'm writing a post, I'm like, oh, what will everyone think if I write this? The challenge is to name five specific people that you're actually afraid of their response. And so mine one time, I was afraid of like, what an ex friend might think of a post that I was writing. And I was like, why do I even care what they think so as soon as I could get specific about who I was actually afraid of, I was able to keep moving and just get back to work. Good. And then I found that whenever people can't name someone specific, they're like, I don't know. It's just like, you know, in general, like they're just, that's just an excuse, then they're just, you know, using the fear of what everyone will think as an excuse to not really live their most authentic badass self.

Emily Thompson 34:43
Yeah, I think that's probably the one that I find myself in the most. Oh, yeah. Is Is that like, okay, for example, I want to Periscope and for some reason, I just can't make myself really do it yet. And I don't know why. And I think it's I think it's like what Every one will think but I also could not name a single person. Like it is totally just an excuse. Whatever I'm telling periscoping later join me.

Kathleen Shannon 35:12
Oh, I've done like one and it was okay. So I was periscoping I think I was at the zoo and there was this beautiful butterfly garden, and I was periscoping some butterflies. And someone is like, show me your boobs. And I was like, What? I'm periscoping butterflies. nobody got time for that. Oh, and then I periscope my talk in Charleston at the giant. Oh, you did? I watched that. And but it's funny because my husband is periscoping it and then it gives you the option to upload the video. So it's always there. And so we started to do it. And he's like, I don't need to do this. And then he shut it down. So only like, half my talk is on there. I should probably take it on anyway. And because I'm actually giving that talk a lot more this year.

Emily Thompson 36:00
There you go. Well, um, yeah, I think, um, I think the fear of what everyone will think usually does just end up being an excuse. So like, I like the idea of just sit down and think of names. Maybe you can come up with names really think about what that person would actually think. And if it really matters about what you're doing. And if you can't name anyone, I don't know. Get one

Kathleen Shannon 36:24
of my one of my fears of like, what everyone will think sometimes it's actually the fear of like, well, what will Emily think about this agenda? or What will my sister think about this design, or this will send it on over and I'll tell you is more of like a fear that kind of actually holds me to a higher standard. So that fear isn't bad. Like that fear is probably actually pretty a good motivator for putting out the best work that I can because, um, you guys hold me accountable to doing the best work that I can. So that's something else I think about whenever it comes to fear and like characteristics of people who are fearless, I feel like they hold themselves accountable to something outside of themselves. So whether that's a business partner, or an audience that they really respect, like, we really respect our audience that listens to being the being boss podcast, and we don't want to let them down. So they hold us accountable to putting out the best quality podcasts or making sure that we have really good sponsors supporting this podcast. And they hold us accountable. Yeah. And it makes us a little less afraid.

Emily Thompson 37:38
Well, and I think I think again, the key there is, is reframing your fear is, you know, fear of what someone will think shouldn't keep you from doing it, it should make you work harder. And you know, fear of failure shouldn't keep you from doing it, it should encourage you to try and learn from your failures. So let's go to the next one.

Kathleen Shannon 38:01
Alright, the fear of nobody. The fear that nobody cares, this is my big fear.

Emily Thompson 38:07
I do this a lot, actually. Just saying that out loud. That's something I say, Well, whatever, nobody cares.

Kathleen Shannon 38:16
That's the fear that nobody will listen, nobody will buy, nobody will read that nobody will acknowledge that you're a creative alive in this world putting out really hard work.

Emily Thompson 38:28
Oh, those are lies do yourself. Those are just lies. That's one of those things where I'll get really preachy and that you don't know that, like, you have no proof that no one cares. And this is this is what like, I usually say that out loud. And then I just get over it and do whatever it is I'm doing. Because you

Kathleen Shannon 38:50
read like what's the proof?

Emily Thompson 38:52
Yeah, exactly. What is the proof? And if there is no proof that no one cares, then someone cares. In which case it is your responsibility to put it out there.

Kathleen Shannon 39:05
Yeah. And so a couple of things. One, this kind of relates, but I think the feeling that nobody cares is also a feeling of not being connected to your work. And I was recently talking to my coach Jay and he told me that whenever he's not feeling super connected, he reminds himself apparently he read a story that Mother Teresa didn't feel connected to her work, or eat. Yeah, connected like this Mother Teresa. She didn't feel connected to it for years. But she still showed up and did the work because she is accountable to all these people that she is helping. So I think that's part of it. Like if even Mother Teresa can get to work and not feel connected, like you can do it too. But um, I think the feeling that nobody cares. I love that like what's the proof, but then also looking at who are your biggest fans Who is actually supporting the work that you do. And then finally, whenever Tara and I first started braid, and we weren't getting a lot of client work, I remember visualizing this really helped. And visualizing the all the energy that I was putting into launching this business was making its way out there. And I would imagine that people, I also did this in a week, whenever I didn't get a lot of comments on my blog post, which is like a metric that I cared about. And I would just imagine people reading the post and smiling, you know, so even that amount, like commenting and hitting reply, and so same thing with the podcast, or any of the work that you do, I imagine people receiving it and getting it and liking it. So it's kind of that best case scenario where I'm imagining the best case scenario of nobody caring that somebody is caring.

Emily Thompson 40:49
Yeah, I think I think if you are putting your heart and soul into something, and if you're creating something of value, people care. And if you're not getting the response that you need, it's because you're not packaging it right. Or you're not positioning it correctly. One of my favorite, like being boss podcast stories, is whenever we did our interview with Paul Jarvis, and he was saying that or maybe I listened to this and something else he did. I don't remember Paul Jr. said this. But he was talking about his creative class and how the first time he launched it, he didn't really have anybody sign up for it. And all he did was repackage it. He relaunched it. And at this point, I think he's had over 1000 people sign up for his creative class, which helps freelancers like do business, which is huge. So if you are hearing crickets, like if you do have some proof that nobody cares, try repackaging it and repositioning it and making sure that people who should care because it will help them are hearing about it. Because testing change, you're not going or the chances of you getting something right like that the first time is pretty slim, sometimes it takes people years to, to launch things. JK Rowling and the Harry Potter books, she's sent out like hundreds of letters to publishers to get Harry Potter published, and most of them turned her down for many reasons. And now it has amusement parks, like people cared. And if you actually, I think, like overarching here is that you care. And if you care about the content that you're putting out there, that's proof right there that someone does. You just have to find people who share your vision. Amen. Amen.

Kathleen Shannon 42:45
All right, so one of the last few years I want to talk about is the fear that you're going down the wrong path. So this is one that I'm seeing a lot lately. And I really need to I want to explore it a little bit more. And maybe it's even a fear that I'm starting to have that fear of missing out. And so the fear that you're going down the wrong path, we just got an email, or I just got an email today from someone who subscribed to the braid newsletter. And one of the things they do in that autoresponder is say, hey, hit reply. And let me know what whenever your current stresses his and hers is that she's in her fourth year of psychology at a university, and she's afraid that she's not tapping into her more creative side. So I think that what I would tell her and probably most people is that all the experiences that you're collecting along the way down your path, are experiences that will help shape your unique offerings or your unique position to the rest of the world. And then another thing I want to say is that there are there aren't multiple paths, you're just one person. So your path is your path. That's it. I think that you can maybe not like the scenery on your path. So hey, guess what, you need to put one foot in front of the other and keep walking until the scenery changes. That's my feeling about being on the right or wrong path.

Emily Thompson 44:12
Yeah, I completely agree with that. I that's it. So I will Ah, I did a free coaching call the other day with a girl who literally This is the exact stuff that she was talking about to she needs like she wanted it was time for her to reduce my for like nutrition, Coach licensing and massage therapy, licensing and things. And she was really just sort of thinking about like not doing it and would it be a mistake not to redo it and in my my advice to her was similar to yours, like, everything you do in your life has some sort of purpose, whether it's now or it will come back to help you in the future. Do what you're doing and keep going.

Kathleen Shannon 44:57
Well and then one thing is that you can is What I want to point out, and something that I've been telling people a lot is that you can always change your mind that you are the driver of your bus. You can always change the route, you can always change the scenery. You're the driver, like nothing is happening to you, you are making it happen. And you can change your mind. If you don't like what is happening, you can change your mind. And so I think maybe just taking accountability, that you are in charge of your life and that you are in charge of your path and the things that you see along the way.

Emily Thompson 45:38
A man. Alright, so last fear. You have your fear number six on here.

Kathleen Shannon 45:47
That's empty. Oh. So their plans for the day? Another fear. I'm sure that there are more, but I was wanting to kind of focus on the ones that are coming up in conversations recently.

Emily Thompson 46:02
Yeah, well, and I think I think the the theme here with with fears is that it's just about switching your mindset, it's about changing how it is that you think about all of this, because if you look at everything on the surface, of I'm scared of not having enough money, or I'm scared of what everyone will think then yeah, those are kind of legitimate fears like, but whenever you look deeper, and you should, because no fear should just lay on the surface. Whenever you look deeper, you find that you know you do have enough money, or you at least have the capacity to make as much as you want. Or if you're really afraid of what everyone think and things and you're naming those people and you can't name anyone, then that's vague. So it really is just about changing, changing how you think about your fears look a little deeper, and then just keep on hustling it out. You know, nothing great comes from not doing anything, and fear as a great way of debilitating our abilities to create. So, find reasons to get over your fears, or at least put them far enough on the backburner that you can keep going until it's time to face those fears. Because that's something I find a lot too people are afraid of what's going to happen, you know, if I launch a business, and it doesn't meet that two year, you know, failure mark, that's two years from now, like you do what you're gonna accomplish between now and then. Maybe it does fail in two years, but for two years, you learned amazing things. So, so really think about your fears. They're real. They're something that Kathleen and I face daily. But it's not something that we ever let stop us from doing what we at least in this moment in time are here to do. And that's to encourage you guys to keep going regardless of your fears as well.

Kathleen Shannon 48:02
And I think that you know, I want to amend that a little bit is that I don't think fear is real, I think fear feels real. And if you give into that feeling, you are wasting your energy, you're doing yourself a disservice you're doing your potential dream clients that you could be helping a disservice or your readers or listeners whatever it is that you want to put out into the world that you're not because you're afraid and it's a waste of energy. And it's not fair to yourself or to anyone else around you to make decisions based from fear. So we're going to follow up this episode with another episode maybe I shouldn't promise this No, we're gonna do it. But either our very next episode or the one after that because we may be having a special guest coming on next is we're going to be talking about getting specific about your dreams, getting dreamy, getting specific about what you want, and how to talk about what you want. So that so that you can make it come true. So stay tuned for that one. And

Emily Thompson 49:12
we'll try to make our dreams a little less morbid, Kathleen, that's your goal okay.

Unknown Speaker 49:21
I know it is well have a coach I have a coach to like I have Yeah,

Emily Thompson 49:28
well that's actually something that I do want to touch on if you don't have the capacity in this moment in time to get over your own fears. Find someone to help you. I know like especially with business coaches life coaches if he if money is a thing you are sincerely struggling with I have no like recommendations but I've seen

Kathleen Shannon 49:48
no I do are being boss bundle is a great Oh yeah, well fear in the ass.

Emily Thompson 49:54
Oh yeah, it's good for like general fear. But I'm thinking like money coaches like money coaches have been popping up all over the place lately. So if you do sincerely struggle with your fears, and they're sincerely inhibiting your ability to create this in their mind, yeah, find a coach or a therapist, because there is a difference. To to help you out, there's nothing nothing shameful in that, if you're afraid of what everyone thinks, because you're getting a coach or a therapist, think about who those people are. And don't let it stop you from, from doing what you are here to do. Because there's nothing more like, sad, and like, yeah, it's just sad.

Kathleen Shannon 50:37
So one of the things that I do sorry, I just wanted to touch on this really fast to you, like if you, if you're not working with a coach, one of the things that I do, and that I recommend to my clients do is to find people, you know, so role models who are rocking confidence and rocking that courage and write them down. So like, we all know, I love Beyonce. So as long as I'm feeling stressed about kind of balancing work and life, I'm like, where Beyonce has a kid, and a husband and an awesome career. So I can do it too. And find someone that you respect and admire and write down all of the characteristics that they have. And just hold them in mind, like as your patron saint of whatever. So for me, it's beyond say, is my patron saint of badassery. And if I'm starting to like, get down or get kind of indulging my fears, I think, well, what would Beyonce do? She would not be sitting around being sad about whatever she would get to work, or maybe

Emily Thompson 51:43
she's totally drinking out of her pimp cup. Like,

Kathleen Shannon 51:47
exactly, exactly. So. So and or another thing that you could do is if you have a friend who's particularly fearless, or courageous, I should say, because most people do have fears. Ask them, invite them to lunch, buy them lunch, and pick their brain a little bit and just say, hey, what does confidence mean to you? What what are some things that you're afraid of, and whenever you can see that we're all in the same boat, and a lot of us share the same fears. And it'll make you a little less afraid or I'll make you realize that it's a normal thing to be afraid, but it shouldn't keep you from doing what you're meant to do. If you like being boss, be sure to sign up for our newsletter at loving boss calm, where you'll get episode worksheets, secret content, and other goodies delivered straight to your inbox every week. Again, that's love being boss calm. Do the work. Be boss, and we'll see you next week.

Emily Thompson 52:58
And then there's something else I want to add to that. What wasn't DNA on I forget what I'm saying. I don't remember. Damn it. I do that section out, Cory. Um, have you been meditating? I have been I've been going I've been going on my grandmother's back porch, which is like a jungle in the south. It's hysterical and amazing. And I've been doing yoga and, and meditating to the to the cicadas.

Kathleen Shannon 53:31
Oh, I like that. Well, I was I'm forgetfulness is one of those things that meditation can improve.

Unknown Speaker 53:39
Yeah, well, which I

Kathleen Shannon 53:40
need because I know my forgetfulness is gambling that on hormones, too. Let's just find everything a

Emily Thompson 53:46
woman's