Episode 40 // Feeling Boss

October 6, 2015

We talk a lot about how to be boss in this podcast, but to day we’re talking about feeling boss and what sorts of things we and our listeners do to put them in the boss mindset—from bright red lipstick to making big investments for yourself (like a new car) to feeling like a boss when you have employees.

Learn More about the Topics Discussed in this Episode
This Episode Brought to You By:
"Mindset follows behavior. You don't have to wait to get into the right mindset to behave like a boss."
- Kathleen Shannon

Discussed in this Episode

  • Things that make you feel boss: manicures, earrings, heels, working out, posture, cars, clean space, lipstick, coffee, fresh notebooks, a good pen
  • Putting power behind your passion projects
  • Having hard conversations
  • Gut checks with yourself in making big decisions about your business
  • Knowing where to place your energy in side projects that feed you
  • Hiring employees like a boss
  • Music that makes us feel boss


More from Kathleen

Braid Creative

More from Emily

Almanac Supply Co.


Kathleen Shannon 0:05
Get your business together, get yourself into what you do and see it through.

Emily Thompson 0:09
Being bosses hard.

Unknown Speaker 0:12
Lending work in life is

Emily Thompson 0:13
messy. Making a dream job of your own isn't easy,

Kathleen Shannon 0:17
but getting paid for it, becoming known for it. And finding purpose in it

Unknown Speaker 0:22
is so doable if you do the work.

Kathleen Shannon 0:26
Being boss is a podcast for creative entrepreneurs. Brought to you by Emily Thompson and Kathleen Shannon.

Emily Thompson 0:32
Hi, I'm Emily. And I own indie typography, where I help passionate entrepreneurs establish and grow their business online. By helping them build brands that attract and websites that sell. I help my clients launch their business so they can do more of what they love, and make money doing it.

Kathleen Shannon 0:50
And I'm Kathleen, I'm the CO owner of brave creative where I specialize in branding and business visioning for creative entrepreneurs who want to blend who they are with what they do narrow in on their core genius and shape their content so they can position themselves as experts to attract more dream clients.

Emily Thompson 1:09
And being boss as a podcast where we're talking shop, giving you a peek behind the scenes of what it takes to build a business, interviewing other working creatives and figuring it out. As we go right there with you.

Kathleen Shannon 1:21
Check out our archives at loving boss calm.

Emily Thompson 1:24
Welcome to episode number 40. This episode is brought to you by fresh books, cloud accounting.

Kathleen Shannon 1:31
Hey guys, today it is just Emily and myself. And today we're going to be chatting about life and feeling like a boss. So the other day, I was talking to Tara, my business partner in braid, and I was feeling a little bit disconnected to our money situation. So I asked her to show me what we had going on. And she opened up our freshbooks account and went to the dashboard. And I can see really succinctly and easily the money going in and the money going out I could see what we had built and what clients had owed us. I could also see our expenses and our income. And it was cool, because in the freshbooks dashboard, it's compared month by month so we can really start to see trends. And we could say, Oh yeah, we felt really busy that month, but we're not really getting the money until a couple months later. So that was really interesting. But then she also pulled up this freshbooks report card which you can only find in the bottom utility nav of freshbooks. And if you click on report card, it will compare how you're doing to other creative entrepreneurs in your industry. So I thought that was really fascinating to see what other creatives are billing and how often they're collecting money. So that was really fun too. freshbooks is easy to use online cloud accounting designed specifically for creative entrepreneurs who did not major in financing. They are there to help you run your business and make you look like a pro while doing it. Try fresh books for free today. Go to freshbooks comm slash being boss and select being boss in the How did you hear about us section?

Unknown Speaker 3:12
Hey, Emily,

Unknown Speaker 3:13
Kathleen, how you doing?

Unknown Speaker 3:15
Good. How are you?

Unknown Speaker 3:16

Kathleen Shannon 3:17
It's just us today.

Emily Thompson 3:19
It is just us today. We we interjected an extra episode into our calendar so we can hang out together.

Kathleen Shannon 3:26
Well is more like we messed up our scheduling and instead of having to go in and fix every episode on our calendar, we decided to just throw in an extra episode.

Unknown Speaker 3:36
Yeah, that's how you fix things like a boss.

Unknown Speaker 3:40
Like work harder instead of working harder.

Kathleen Shannon 3:42
We're literally too lazy to change our calendar. So we decided recording episode right?

Unknown Speaker 3:51
I like that. fits well.

Unknown Speaker 3:54
I'm excited to catch up with you what's been going on? I am do

Emily Thompson 3:58
um, I've been a hermit lately. A little bit of a hermit settling into my new house. Um, we are making ourselves leave the house occasionally. Which is just not a bad thing. We're gonna go rock climbing tonight. And be doing so just one step around down. Oh, I quit well 30 How many days in were you? We were 18 days in and we quit? Wait, why? Um, oh, for a couple of really good reasons. Um, one of which so I lost like 15 pounds this summer.

Kathleen Shannon 4:34
Whoa, yeah, you need to lose 15 pounds. Are you feeling too skinny? Or? No? No,

Emily Thompson 4:41
I probably needed to lose probably about 1015 ish. Um, and so we started like road tripping was huge. Like, whenever you eat nuts and granola for 40 days, like you just naturally lives a bit away and we were drinking kombucha is like Every day, like we were eating, we were eating pretty good, um, minus the fact that I literally ate french fries across the entire country, which is something that I will now brag about forever. Do you feel like a french fry connoisseur, I am a friend like, that's actually my favorite food is french fries.

Unknown Speaker 5:15
So who has the best french fries? Oh, the

Emily Thompson 5:18
best french fries I've ever had. Were at licos in Chicago, and they were white truffle and parmesan. fries. They were the best fries I've ever had. Ever. Anyway, total french fry connoisseur. But anyway, so we called their effect all 30 Kathleen, um, we were about 18 days in and we were sitting down on the front porch, because we do every morning now. We were sitting on the front front porch, and David talked me into quitting. And part of that's because like, I was like losing more weight to like I lost about five more bounces during whole 30. And like it was getting to a point where I was getting a little concerned. But so was David. So David's already really thin and like the trip out west made him lose about I don't know, 510 pounds, which David does not need to lose 510 pounds and then hold 30 was making him drop a couple of more, which is a little concerning. So we decided to, to have pancakes. Basically, um, but anyway, so we stopped or set our third hole 30 a little over halfway through. And we were both very, very comfortable with that decision. We still have yet to drink, we still haven't drank, which is a thing that you quit on hold 30 and we haven't really done much else. But David, David needs to bulk back up a little bit. And I needed to stop losing weight. So um, so we cheated on all 30 and so now I'm eating whatever I want again, which is fine.

Kathleen Shannon 6:50
You know, I found that after doing two whole 30s now it's just about a little more about moderation. Like I love the not having to decide, yes, whether or not I'm going to be moderate, you know, much better abstainer than moderator. But now these days, I just can't feel bad for having a bowl of oats.

Emily Thompson 7:12
I agree well out my thing was like lentils and rice and beans like I wasn't wanting to go out and have like a cheeseburger or anything like we have yet D gluten which we've we've been going pretty hardcore gluten free for the past nine months, 910 months or so. We did our whole like envy goes West, like the whole trip was completely gluten free. And then whenever we were moving, we ate pizza a lot. And that's one of the reasons why we wanted to do whole 30 when we got back here was because we didn't gluten it up and we all felt horrible. So we did a whole 30 and then it was it was rice and beans and lentils like filling things that we were really missing. So we just decided to stop it was fun to get into the kitchen and like and have those decisions made for you of what you can and can't eat those sorts of things. But third hole 30 about 20 days in it wasn't the like, the rejuvenating experience that it used to be I guess and it was more of like a mad and I just want to eat what I have. And so it's still really great. And like I was still like incorporate tons of it into my life. But I think I think that or David is wholeheartedly told me he will never do it again. He's he loves it. He loves full 30. But he's done it. He understands like what is taught him, but he's hungry.

Kathleen Shannon 8:33
Yeah, I was recently reading something that Melissa Hartwig wrote and she was on being boss, check out that episode. But she was writing something about how her business partner has done a couple of whole 30s. And that's all he needed. Yeah. And then done. Yeah, but how she kind of needs one every quarter, or maybe a couple times a year to really restart. So I think it's just based on what you need. at a time. I had a rejuvenating experience. Recently, I went to Colorado on a family trip. And it was it was hard because I think I had asked in the been boss Facebook group. If anyone had recommendations and people were like, you're gonna be here. There's a being boss group getting together and people wanting to meet for coffee and I had to just say no. So I made it family only I didn't even bring my laptop. My husband didn't bring his laptop. And the big thing was we were trying to decide whether or not to leave our baby at home with my mom and dad or to take him so we decided to take him and all my friends were like leave him home. You need to go have a good vacation by yourselves. But I'm so glad that we took him

Unknown Speaker 9:54

Unknown Speaker 9:55
He was just fun to hang out with.

Unknown Speaker 9:57
Colorado was fun.

Kathleen Shannon 9:58
Colorado was a lot A lot of fun. My favorite part was we went to the Botanical Gardens, and it was just so inspiring.

Emily Thompson 10:07
I love shit like that, which is calling it shit just shows you how much I appreciate it. We have here at the aquarium, they, they have a butterfly garden. And that is the one place that I can take Lily, where she just chills out. And she will watch the butterflies and look at the plants. And they also have like a family of mice that have moved in to the butterfly garden, which is hysterical. I'm so good. I'm glad that you found so much like happiness and inspiration.

Kathleen Shannon 10:36
garden. It was good. But um, I guess on the flip side of that, I realized that one thing I'm going to Well, there are a few things I'm going to talk about today and one of them is feeling like a boss. And one of the things that I realized I needed to do to feel like a boss was to get some help around my anxiety, which I didn't realize I had, until I found myself in my midwife's office asking for tubal ligation, and she was like, what's going on? And then I cried. Um, so I decided to get some help for my anxiety. And someone was just talking about this in the Facebook group, like what do you do whenever you're really feeling fear, and anxious. And I had just listened to a podcast with Laura Tremaine, who is the Hollywood housewife, she has a regular podcast with a woman I think, named Megan. And the podcast is called sorta awesome. And I can't wait to catch up, I'm going to have to binge on all of the episodes, but I listened to their one on anxiety, which made me want to talk about this because it's something that I was probably feeling a little bit of shame or embarrassment around. I mean, we have a podcast called being Boss, I need to be boss enough that I don't have anxiety, or I need to be a little mindset my way out of this. So I was listening to her episode on anxiety and a lot of the things that they were saying really resonated. And I was like, oh, maybe I do have anxiety. And maybe it's always been such a part of my life that I never recognize it as such. So since having the baby though, I think that that triggered a lot more anxiety. So I am now seeing a legit therapist. No more energy doctor. I'm getting real help. And so I feel really hopeful to see what aspects of anxiety have been in a way productive and made me who I am and have made me a boss and what I can use and harness and then what I can kind of let go of. So I just want to say that if anyone needs help to get help. Good.

Emily Thompson 12:49
I agree. I whenever you told me that the other day. I was I was so excited for you. Because even like since having Fox and we talked about this before you had thoughts, like what was going to change because we've been having these conversations for years at Oh, yeah, literally years. And and there's definitely been a huge shift in in you like both is becoming a mom but also, I don't know just sort of a deeper bit of angsty and anxiety and like pressure going on and Mayor so I'm glad that I'm glad that you you found a way for you to not really cope and deal but just live.

Kathleen Shannon 13:29
No, that's exactly right. cope. We're gonna cope with all this. And I think it's a lot of things happen at the same time I had a baby growing a business is it just started to feel like a lot of pressure. And it's and then it's stuff that I felt dumb or ungrateful for being stressed about like I'm so lucky people would kill to be in my position and I'm stressed about it. So I think that I was feeling some shame around my anxiety and that's kind of why I wasn't getting hope for it. Anyway, um, I think it's also a normal thing to feel anxious around, having a baby and growing a business and being a creative entrepreneur. So So then I was thinking about what are some things that I do that really helped me feel boss even whenever I'm a little shaken maybe or whenever my confidence might be a little lacking. So for me, it always comes down to an awesome manicure. Like I know that sounds really shallow.

Unknown Speaker 14:37
I love it when you get deep love.

Unknown Speaker 14:45
I agree though

Emily Thompson 14:46
I'm right there with you. That's one of those things like that is a level of being pampered and taken care of for something that's that's a little bit nonsense like a manicure is not going to help you talk better actually. He's probably gonna make you type worse in all honesty but it's one of those things was like frivolous just personal self care indulgences that I agree like if you can splurge a bit and get a manicure and look a little bit more fantastic then that makes me footballs to have failure

Kathleen Shannon 15:21
and I mean of course there are things like making bank and expanding my business or launching that make me feel boss but all those things also bring on a little bit of anxiety for me. Yes, guys, your

Unknown Speaker 15:34
brains knowings

Kathleen Shannon 15:36
no Insightly bossiness, unless you make your cuts my cuticles and makes me bleed, which seems to happen almost every time

Unknown Speaker 15:47

Kathleen Shannon 15:49
I not to be like Debbie Downer about this thing. There

Unknown Speaker 15:52
you go. Okay, so

Kathleen Shannon 15:53
the last time I got a manicure I said do not cut my cuticles. Well, I

Emily Thompson 15:58
have a purpose just for you telling her do not do

Unknown Speaker 16:01
that. I said don't don't cut them. push them back.

Emily Thompson 16:06
Oh, there is a there is a comedy like little sketch thing by Angelina Johnson. If you guys haven't seen that, you have to go look it up. And it's like a it's a manicurist comedy thing. And it is hysterical. Every time I think of getting a Manny, you have to go watch it. As soon as we're done. I'll send you a link. It is hysterical. So go YouTube that everyone enjoy because you'll laugh.

Kathleen Shannon 16:31
So I asked our Facebook group, which now has over 4000 bosses almost 40 for like

Emily Thompson 16:39
three days ago I looked at it was like it was just hitting 42 and I looked at it yesterday and it was like 4380 like in a couple of days. We've added a couple more 100 and I'm like blown away so it's growing

Kathleen Shannon 16:51
exponentially. Yes. Huge. So I asked them what little things make them feel boss and I just wanted to share what a few of them said. So Nina de said killer heels and being physically fit. It's not exactly a tangible item but knowing I've dominated my last boxing or strength session definitely makes me feel like a boss for the day. Half have

Emily Thompson 17:17
that I felt like an anti balls the next day because I'm like achy and sore and I can't even without hurting but yes that day

Kathleen Shannon 17:27
I know for sure that working out and that's you know no secret has always been a big part of my day and something that I always scheduled time for. And I probably just take it for granted as part of what I do. Unlike a manicure.

Emily Thompson 17:43
Exactly. Um, what are some other things let's see what so brig Oh, I love this one. Brie gore said earrings, so weird, but I can have all my makeup hair and clothes done to perfection. But as soon as I put on these dangly earrings on Boss, I love that I agree with that. I have been feeling a little weird about wearing earrings lately. Is that a really stupid thing to say out loud I kind of feel it is like almost a little too dressed up these days when I wear earrings, which just goes to show how much of a hermit I've become since we moved in. But earrings are definitely like that finishing touch to me sometimes that like put on your your bubbles. Bam, you're a boss.

Kathleen Shannon 18:27
On a less girly note. Beth Alessi says using quality tools makes me feel like a boss. I remember years ago I was using a pirated copy of the Creative Suite and a laptop that was slowing down. Now I'm on the Creative Cloud and on an iMac and MacBook Pro sync with Dropbox. And it's a different life. also investing in myself I buy courses like the Brady course books and apps that help me be better at what I do oh and manicures help to smile, emoticon.

Emily Thompson 19:00
there there's many hairs again. So tools are huge. And this is where Emily goes with her shameless plug because tools for me are absolutely massive. And I remember that like well I lied and got the student version of Creative Suite all those years ago when I was no longer a student and paid for that for a while. And I remember upgrading to my first iMac to like I remember bringing home that box it was like the best day ever is like the first big purchase that that my business bought. Um, but tools are really important. So we just launched toolkits and talk about like feeling like a boss. And for me a big reset one has

Unknown Speaker 19:37

Emily Thompson 19:38
has been hiring someone to help me put systems in place for me boom. So I can start stepping away from those projects a little bit to focus on some things that I want to do. Putting putting some power behind your passion projects, huge way to feel like a boss. And we recently launched toolkits because I agree I think to feel like a boss you absolutely have to have the right tools and So we created this fun little subscription service. So that every two weeks you get a toolkit which is a lesson either video or audio this. The first toolkit was a walkthrough of Google Analytics for small businesses and how those metrics can help their business along with like worksheets and other resources, so tools for me are massive. I totally agree Beth and if you want to check out our toolkits in the shop biography.com slash toolkits is where you'll get all the goods to help you build a better online biz.

Unknown Speaker 20:33

Kathleen Shannon 20:36
Um, let's see Jennifer Pollock pillock. Hi, Jennifer says, taking up space with my body, arms, uncrossed, down, shoulders back wider stance and looking at people in the eyes with a huge grin. I love this so much

Emily Thompson 20:54
I need to do but I also kind of imagine walking into a room and seeing someone standing there like that, like just granted and everybody who walks in, it's kind of hysterical to me. Um, but I agree. Okay, so I have this funny little story about like looking people in the eye that is really, really fun. And I don't think I've ever really told anyone this story. So here you go. Whenever I was in school and getting my geography degree, David and I went to Las Vegas for a geographers conference talk about a nerd thing. So we go to Vegas of all places to meet up with like 1000s of geographers from all across the world. And David and I manage the reception desk for like two days during the conference. And so like, Girl at a geography conference is rare. Like that's a it's a really rare thing. And so I'm working the front desk, I'm literally checking in all of these men and like college boys, like checking in. And I've always had this thing about eye contact. I like watching people squirm a little bit, I guess, is what it really is. But watching all these little, little these boys and even like grown men squirm at the idea of like having a girl look them in the eyes, while they ask them their name and line to get information from them. was such a powerfully fun thing for me to do those couple of days. So it makes you feel like a boss. Yeah.

Kathleen Shannon 22:19
Um, but there is a TED talk. We'll have to link to it in the show notes. But it's all about the power of posture. I don't know, I've watched that. And that's a good one. And so how actually, so this is kind of what I'm talking about, even though a manicure is superficial, by starting with stuff on the outside, like with changing your behavior. First, you can change your mindset, like your mindset will follow your behavior. So I think so often we think about, it starts with your mindset, and then your behavior follows. So if I can just get a disciplined mindset, then I can have discipline behavior, that sometimes it's about starting with the behavior. So by sitting up straight by making eye contact, then your mindset will shift, and you'll feel more confident. So we'll have to include a link to that TED talk in our show notes, but I love that.

Emily Thompson 23:17
Okay, so let's see what else Oh, so Katie, here's my rubies.

Unknown Speaker 23:23
Katie Rue is sprues.

Emily Thompson 23:25
We need to work on some of these names Kathleen, okay, so a clean car and an organized workstation. A man to the clean car, David has yet to like officially clean our car after a 40 day road trip, which I totally let him have it about the other day. But an organized workstation is one of mine, like I I do not have the cleanest desk in the world. But whenever I'm getting serious about business, when I'm ready to like be boss that like doing whatever it is, whether it's tackling my inbox or any project, I have to clean my desk, first

Kathleen Shannon 24:01
of all about the car thing. So that's actually a bigger purchase that I made recently. Well, around this time last year. No Is it two years ago, no. Two years ago, I bought a new car. So I have been driving a old sigh on XP is a 2004 like the first model. So that's that really boxy milk truck looking. So I had one of those for 10 years. And it was fine. I mean, it's a great little car, it will probably be running forever. But I had had a good year and I really wanted a new car and I wanted a new car for about a year or two. And my husband is very practical and very rational and is not very vain, like definitely goes on far less vanity trips than I do. So. Like I want a new car and finally I think I just wore him down. He's like, Alright, let's go car shopping. Also, I was nine months pregnant. And, you know, like, it's kind of that nesting phase like I need a safe car for my baby, the XP would have been plenty safe. So I thought that I was gonna get a Subaru Outback like something real mom ish. And I came home with a Mini Cooper. Right? Like the car seat can still hardly fit in. Um, anyway, I love every day I get in my car and I feel like a boss. So it wasn't like a purchase that I kind of got over three months later. Like, I still feel like a boss. And I spend about $30 once a quarter to go get it deep cleaned professionally. And it just makes me feel Boss, I have to say,

Emily Thompson 25:50
awesome. Yeah, we um, we recently went down to a one car family, which has been a fun adjustment. But I'm ready to invest in getting myself a car again before we left on our trip. We sold my experience so I was in the same boat. Mine was in oh three. And it was just old and a horse like I always steroids are cool.

Unknown Speaker 26:13
I am going

Unknown Speaker 26:15
oh yeah, it was orange.

Emily Thompson 26:19
It was I loved my car. We called it or I called it the beast. Everyone else called it the pumpkin. It was it was like a tank like that. It was such a great car. But we sold it before we went on our trip as part of our like purging phase. And so now being back in the city like we have a one car again or I guess not again is the only time we've ever had one car. So I'm ready to like be boss and get myself a new car soon ish

Kathleen Shannon 26:48
sooner rather than later. What do you are you into cars? Like what kind of car do you want? Oh, I

Emily Thompson 26:52
used to be really hardcore. I used to be one of those nerds that literally at night I could see a car's headlights and tell you exactly what it was like that used to be me now I have no idea. I don't I don't have brain space for that. I'm more but um it's funny. So Mini Cooper was on my list for a really long time and then whenever you got yours I was like shit now I can't get him.

Unknown Speaker 27:13
Now you have to get him in.

Emily Thompson 27:17
But like I've also I've been been talked out of it by a million different people.

Kathleen Shannon 27:21
I know they get really mixed reviews. I have to say I would not have bought one if I didn't live within 10 miles of a mini cooper dealership. I'm just going to throw that out there.

Emily Thompson 27:33
But no so so Mini Cooper for a really long time has been on my list um, but God I hate even saying this David's a Subaru driver. And Subaru drivers are a different kind of people. Like there is a brand loyalty there that like makes my stomach hurt a little bit. And David drank the Kool Aid whenever we lived in Boone or near Boone North Carolina everyone had to see brew and David got his Subaru then it seems he's only had her three or four years. And I mean thinking about getting a Subaru.

Unknown Speaker 28:06
What kind like an Outback are. We start like are you just gonna have to matching Subaru? No, no, no

Unknown Speaker 28:11
way. I'm not that bad. Okay, my parents.

Unknown Speaker 28:15
My parents have matching Honda fits. That's adorable. It's not ridiculous.

Unknown Speaker 28:26
I agree. No, we will not get matching cars a day. All right,

Unknown Speaker 28:29
those cross tracks Tara has a cross track. Yeah, I

Emily Thompson 28:32
remember talking to her about it. Well, while we were there David has a forester I think and I think I went across track what else have I thought about for a really long time I wanted an FJ Cruiser but I think they stopped making those and it's just

Kathleen Shannon 28:45
been so just the gas mileage might I counted a big beast of a car and I just cannot get past the gas mileage thing I just feels irresponsible

Emily Thompson 28:57
that's one of the reasons why we got rid of our exterra was because I'd stopped driving it like I literally hadn't driven it in like five years because well No Actually I had not driven it really since David had gotten a Subaru because the Subaru that's such better gas mileage and with such eat so much easier to get in and out of I'm like next day it was big that we stopped driving it and so getting something small and fuel efficient for me is is more important now than I feel it's ever been like me being a mom

Kathleen Shannon 29:28
I feel like people are really getting like the here's what Emily and Kathleen actually

Emily Thompson 29:34
this is the kind of shit that we talked about. Okay, so anyway, cars are really balls or buying big purchases like that, especially like army Should I just bought a house and we got our deed the other day and David was like, you know, this piece of paper proves that we own like the house that we live in the property we're standing on like that's it's definitely the biggest thing that we have ever purchased and it makes me feel Boston's folk like hands down the most balls I've ever felt. So like, I definitely think that that buying big things and and taking care of them that this house moving into it, we had to do some really nasty things like to clean it up, we had to vacuum out the bottom of our freezer have like a really nice freezer like stainless steel appliances that were just shipped. And because they had not taken care of them that's not very boss, like taking or making big purchases and then investing your time and energy into them and taking care of things like having the clean car or just not making your freezer look like that. Those are both things like being proactive in your ongoing happiness and investments.

Kathleen Shannon 30:43
So Janine, Elise said, hashtag bank account,

Unknown Speaker 30:47
which means

Kathleen Shannon 30:49
amen to that I felt so boss recently, actually, on Friday, I had a really good meeting with our sponsor freshbooks. And just about continuing that relationship. And then there was a couple other things coming up like the New Orleans trip. So that is coming up fast. And, but then also, you know, business is picking back up for the fall and looking at my bank account. So we made a lot of money to for being boss. On Friday,

Emily Thompson 31:22
we did we made for being boss, which which really, let's talk about what that means. Because you and I have talked both talked very seriously lately about what our ongoing roles of being bosses and the roles that our sponsors play in that. So you want to talk about being both like new revenue structures and sponsorship conversations. And those things like coming out of something that you've built literally from nothing like being ball started as an email, like 10 months ago, or send a friendship,

Kathleen Shannon 31:51
an email and a friendship. Exactly. So

Emily Thompson 31:54
like so what sponsors are going to allow us to do is at least right now have the conversation of what does it look like when we go being vulnerable time? Or as we start putting more of our energy into this? Like what can we give the people who are our biggest fans, and who support us and what we're doing. So that was that was Friday may have been the most balls day of my life.

Unknown Speaker 32:18
And it was super boss, because we were having hard conversations too. Yeah,

Emily Thompson 32:22
well, hard conversations that weren't hard, which I think that's true or anything to point out. Like we talked about having hard conversations all the time. And how that is like one of the ways that you can be boss in your life in business is having conversations that people don't necessarily want to have. And as you do it, they start or they start not being hard. They stop being hard, I guess. So like we talked about shit. Now it's not hard to do.

Kathleen Shannon 32:47
So we say no to a lot of sponsors, we say no to a lot of guests requests, we say no to a lot of things. But we're also at the point where we need to say yes to some things for our hashtag bank account. And another thing that we've talked a lot about is that I'm being bosses, our side hustle So a lot of you guys have side hustles and it has become a side hustle that we're so passionate about and that we love doing so much that I think it's been proved for the both of us at the Money Follows whenever you're doing something that you love. Yes. And and I think that it's something that both of us would continue to do for free, honestly. And so. But now that it is making money, it's like how do we think about what if being boss becomes a full time gig for us, and then our jobs with braid creative and indicia typography kind of become the side hustles or something that we rely on our team to continue to manage now that's not like in the near future for me, I think or for you because our day jobs which are braid creative and indicia biography, I think day job. I mean, we own them, but you know what I mean? Our main gigs are definitely our bread and butter. Yeah, but anyway, I think that bank account is just it's a huge way to feel boss. Whenever your metrics are good and whenever your metrics are high. I think it's also something that can make you feel not so boss whenever it's feeling a little low. So that's whenever you go out and get yourself a manicure.

Emily Thompson 34:19
Amen to that well and I also like one a Flipside that like being boss also often comes with like, not really frauding feelings, but like a gut check. I think um, so all the money that we made on Friday, which makes it sound so hysterically ridiculous, but but really like it was it was a big day for, for us to like be able to talk to some sponsors and get some things laid out. But I had to have a sincere gut check of like, what the fuck? Like, how do I actually feel about this? What does it mean? And we talked in our episode in our last episode with Paul Jarvis about how You know, money and impact or you know, especially money and energy being the same thing, and I don't know metrics. metrics can be scary. You just have to make sure that you put them in the right. perspective. Wait, so

Kathleen Shannon 35:13
what were some of your fears around? After what happened Friday? Like, what? How did that work? Tell me more about the gut check. Did you feel guilty? Or did

Unknown Speaker 35:24
you a little bit? Oh, yeah, that well, I

Emily Thompson 35:27
did. I did a little bit. And mostly because I love doing this so much like,

Unknown Speaker 35:32
it feels lazy. Yes, it

Emily Thompson 35:33
feels a little easy. And it's not like, you know, we've looked at like how much time we're like, this is not something that we just sort of like

Unknown Speaker 35:41
we speak, and then things fall out of it.

Unknown Speaker 35:44
It doesn't work that way.

Emily Thompson 35:46
But but it was a sincere amount of guilt around how around how comparably easy it is an easy because I love it so much. And, you know, do we deserve to get paid? And of course we do. And that this just sort of the gut check I had to have. But still a hard conversation to have with yourself sometimes.

Kathleen Shannon 36:06
Totally, I think that gut check that I had to have is where is my attention. And so um, yes, being placed and so not feeling guilty towards my other roles and responsibilities in breed creative. And one thing that I've been talking about recently on being boss, leading up until now is another side project that I had been working on. And that ended up I decided that I couldn't do it anymore. I was just spread thin. And I think especially after talking to Jason Zook, and Brian Clark of copyblogger, and people say that you have to know why you're doing what you're doing. I had this dream of becoming a portfolio entrepreneur, and expanding, whenever really the side project that I was working on, I was excited about it. But ultimately, it was making me do none of my jobs very well. Because I was just a little spread thin. So I think that, um, whenever I saw being boss doing really well, I was like, Okay, I'm gonna make sure that this isn't a distraction from how I get paid, or that it's not going to create any sort of hard feelings. And so those are conversations that we had to like, what if being boss became the main thing? What does that mean for our other businesses? And that's something that I think we're still living in that question a little bit, but that we're definitely exploring, and I think that's part of being boss is, um, understanding, like getting clear around what you're doing, and why you're doing it. And for me, I just lost my train of thought, well, for you,

Emily Thompson 37:53
good. For you. I think one of the things that I noticed a lot was that that other project, it wasn't feeding you it was draining you like every time we spoke about it, you never spoke about it with the same excitement that you speak about braid or being boss. And I also love that whenever you let that go, it was filled up by being boss very quickly. Which, which I hope for you was just confirmation that the decision that you made was not a bad one. Because I mean, I can even tell what you got today's agenda done hours earlier

Kathleen Shannon 38:32
than usual. But still, like 10 minutes before we actually started when

Unknown Speaker 38:40
it was still here.

Kathleen Shannon 38:42
Here's what it was, there was some energy around it. It didn't feel forced. It was like, Hey, this is a natural conversation that we need to be having about feeling boss.

Emily Thompson 38:51
I agree well, and a note on that energy too. I was we got on today, especially after after Friday, and the chats that we had this weekend. And just like, I don't know, just continue the conversation like I woke up today more ready than ever to record this episode. And this is the first of three episodes we're recording this week. Like, we're gonna be seeing a lot of each other this week, but it's still like, I feel more energy around it too. And I think that's, I don't know, I enjoy recognizing that. And hopefully understanding that that means really good things.

Kathleen Shannon 39:24
I know. And I feel like we're doing a lot of talking about ourselves, which is part of the podcast.

Unknown Speaker 39:30
Today, you guys get nice.

Kathleen Shannon 39:31
I think what I want people to see is that we struggle with side projects and distraction and not feeling boss. But then also being proud of our accomplishments, I think is part of being boss. And so I think that's what we're doing here a little bit is acknowledging the stuff that's going well and where we feel energy and for me that side project that ultimately didn't work out for me I think what it did is it did give me some good perspective on where I do need to focus my energy and what to say yes to and what to say no to because I think for a while, I just felt really confused around what I was passionate about. And there were some things that aligned that made it feel like the universe was bringing me the side project and I should say, Yes, so I don't regret saying yes to it, but I wish I would have handled it better. And that's all part of being bosses learning some hard hard lessons. So some other bosses in the Facebook group, I mean, we got over 100 comments, like maybe 120 comments on this post asking what makes you feel boss, and so lots of other bosses said lipstick, which you and I are both fans of coffee, so which is so true. I always feel boss whenever I'm holding a cup of coffee. Really good. There's something about it. Like especially walking into a meeting with my to go cup of coffee, I just feel boss. And then fresh notebooks and a good pin. So again, that's like good physical tools. Yep, make people feel boss. Alright, so what makes you feel boss?

Emily Thompson 41:11
Oh, good night's sleep. That always makes and this is also coming after a very not good night's sleep. So I sat down to write that down. I was like, you know, what makes me feel ball sleep. in anger, but really, for me, it has talked about it all the time. Um, I need sleep more so than most people. So for me a really good night's rest.

Unknown Speaker 41:37
A really great meal.

Emily Thompson 41:39
So I love either being able to go out and just sort of eat really good food and drink some good wine or to buy some really good food, hashtag Whole Foods. And, and coming home and cooking it which is something that I sincerely enjoy doing. So for me, for me enjoying a really good meal with people that I love or Oh definitely not or but with people that I love, or like cooking it myself, makes me feel really badass. And then also a really bitchin pair of boots. Because that's

Kathleen Shannon 42:12
a lot of people said that in the Facebook group.

Unknown Speaker 42:14
Yeah. around all day long. And I feel

Kathleen Shannon 42:18
bosses and boots. Yeah. Which means that fall is coming up. And I love my wardrobe in the fall much more than summer. I just like not feeling like a sweaty person all the time. But like leggings and boots, yes,

Unknown Speaker 42:36

Unknown Speaker 42:36
So let's talk about how,

Unknown Speaker 42:39
how you can feel like a boss when it comes to your employees.

Kathleen Shannon 42:42
Okay, so recently, I had a friend and she was like, I would love it if you guys would talk about actually being a boss on being boss, being a boss of other employees. And I know that that's something that can be really tricky or sensitive, or I don't know. So like, I wanted to talk a little bit about hiring processes. And I just wanted to say like a big shift in my business recently was hiring our assistant, Caitlin, who and I love her, I love her. But the way that I found her was literally doing an Instagram post, and she's not technically an official virtual assistant. So like we're her first kind of client that she does assisting for. So what I love about it, though, is that she had a lot of skill sets. And I literally just liked her email. So whenever I'm hiring employees, I'm looking for a mix of, they can write a good email, they have the skill set, but then also there's a personality click there.

Emily Thompson 43:47
Sure. So mine, one of the one of my favorite ways to hire employees

Unknown Speaker 43:53

Emily Thompson 43:54
to do like an internship test first, especially whenever you are working remote, which I think most bosses would be one of the things that I have found is really, really helpful in hiring people, especially if you're really wanting to make them a part of your team, like if you are going to pay them as an employee is to do an internship phase for everyone a couple weeks, a couple of months, maybe three, three months or so, just to try it out so that there is clear expectations of of this is just going to be to try it out and see how things mesh because the team dynamic, especially whenever you're actually No it's not, especially when you're working remote, remote or like face to face or in person, team dynamic is everything. And I think that you can only test that out sometimes you can't just know by by having a couple of interviews with someone if that's going to work out well. That's something that I've been doing in my business for a while and I very much so enjoyed that process.

Kathleen Shannon 44:53
So speaking of team dynamic, sorry, I'm just jumping a little bit but how do you balance being friendly But not being friends.

Emily Thompson 45:02
That is okay. So I learned this lesson really hard about 10 years ago. So my first business, my tanning salon, I hired friends of mine to help me to help me run it. And they ended up stealing a bunch of shit from me. Yep, from under my nose. And I learned that I did never hire friends, obviously, that idea. But it also, it also made me really distant from any, like future employees that I had for a really, really long time. So there has to be a very, very careful balance there of being friendly, but not necessarily being friends. Just some point. And I like to juxtapose that with, it's not about building friendships, which a lot of times can be very,

Unknown Speaker 45:49

Emily Thompson 45:50
still be very independent from each other, like your friends, and you're not really counting on each other for things. Sometimes one of the ways that I like to balance that is really I think of my team is my family in a lot of ways. Like, I was actually just this morning having a phone call with Val Geisler, I hired her to help us put some processes in place, especially since we both went remote. And that's one of the things that we talked about was how these processes have changed. And not even our team dynamic, but our family dynamic. And I know that you, you obviously feel the same way your family is your team, and you are part your sisters. And Liz is really, really close to you.

Unknown Speaker 46:27
So um,

Emily Thompson 46:29
I think I think it's not about being friends, I think it's building a very codependent relationship with your team that makes you feel a lot more like family than you do friends. Because then you count on each other so much more. And there's I don't know, there can be less drama.

Kathleen Shannon 46:49
No, I think I have mixed feelings about that. I think I'm have to think on that one a little bit. But

Emily Thompson 46:55
but there we go. There goes episode number two. Based on employees,

Kathleen Shannon 47:01
I know I think we'll have to do a whole episode on employees. But so I did hire my best friend who does almost feel like a sister. And so we're obviously friends. And we're friendly, but we are really good. I think whenever it works, it works. And whenever it doesn't, it doesn't. So I'm always really open with her and careful that like if she wants to leave that that's going to be separate from our friendship. But there is something about proximity that I think allows us to be better friends because we work together. I think whenever you're in the trenches with someone, it's hard to not become friends and some of my sister's best friendships come from people that she used to work with. And anyway, I it's complicated, I think whenever you're a creative entrepreneur having the friendly but not friends boundary, but I would say like with our assistant, Caitlin, I definitely feel friendly. But we're not friends, though that might change after Nola because she's staying in a room with us. And I feel more like friends after that. But I think it's just acknowledging that there's a balance. And so this is whenever it comes to kind of having to discipline your team without apologizing or feeling funny about it. That's what's really hard whenever it comes to that friend boundary.

Emily Thompson 48:23
Sure it will see and that's that I feel is when it's easier to think of them as family, because it's a lot easier for you to put your foot down whenever it comes to your children. Not that I see my team as my children in any way. But sometimes it's a lot easier to assert yourself with people that you consider family than it can be with people that you consider even being vague friends. Because that is a definite hard part is you know, being friends with someone and then having to tell them that they're doing something wrong or that you don't approve of something they're doing or that something needs to change. Can can be really hard. And it is it's just a it's a weird balancing act. And it's something that literally just takes practice. This is one of the reasons why I know that that tanning salon was part of my path to get where I am now. Because the issues that I had to deal with with employees then trained me very well for being able to create the team that I have now.

Kathleen Shannon 49:19
And I think it's just a huge part of being boss and where it comes to employees is giving good guidance and setting expectations from the get go. And this includes with your clients too. There's nothing more boss than being a leader. And I think that bosses are afraid of micromanaging or feeling inflexible, but there's a difference. And I think that as much as you can set up guidance and expectations from the beginning, you're going to not have to deal with as much funny feelings down the road number it comes to having those hard conversations.

Unknown Speaker 49:56
I agree. I

Emily Thompson 49:57
think I think a lot of the things that we've been talking about Today in terms of being Boston, and those hard conversations and making decisions, like a lot of what we talked about every day, really revolves around setting clear expectations for yourself and for others, and like the people around you who are going to help you reach your goals, or with your clients who also

Unknown Speaker 50:18
help you to reach your goals.

Emily Thompson 50:20
Expectations are everything actually had to have this conversation with David yesterday, or he was getting a client to pay us. And it's not a bad situation or anything. But he was just he sent them an email that said, ASAP, and I was like, absolutely not. You never say ASAP. That is not a clear expectation. Like you set dates. And you give people expectations, guidelines and boundaries that they can, they can, you know, ask for movement on or something but you set the expectation, because it is your job as a leader and as someone who's been hired to do something, to set those expectations and make people follow them.

Unknown Speaker 51:00
Who are

Unknown Speaker 51:02
all right, so

Kathleen Shannon 51:03
let's go back to some more shallow boss.

Unknown Speaker 51:07

Kathleen Shannon 51:08
we'll do an episode on employee sometime, but I'm curious what makes what music makes you feel boss? Or like, what do you listen to while you're working?

Unknown Speaker 51:17

Emily Thompson 51:18
I listen to all kinds of ridiculous and not ridiculous, but all kinds of different things. So on a general day to day, I love Spotify, and I love some of their little channels that they have. And I'll flip through like, you know, today's visit, there's like a happy hipster playlist.

Unknown Speaker 51:33
That's not horrible. Um,

Emily Thompson 51:35
there's a couple of fun things and I have a couple of my own. But whenever I'm really like needing to get down and do something, I'm actually having a really hard time getting a brand out for like a Florence local business. And I was telling the team about last night because they were asking me how that was going. I was like, It's horrible. Get it done. And Gauri was like, you need to go listen to some m&m. And it made me laugh because he's probably totally right. Whenever whenever I'm like, really sitting down to code something or having a hard time with some really bad creative block,

Unknown Speaker 52:08
some like

Emily Thompson 52:09
early 2000s like Eminem and 50 cent and some ridiculous shit

Unknown Speaker 52:13
like that

Emily Thompson 52:14
really gets me going in a good kind of way. But I also really love some like club dance music when I'm just trying to like hype myself up, but in my current favorites, is global concepts by Robert delong. You have to go check it out.

Unknown Speaker 52:29
Check it out.

Unknown Speaker 52:30
It's one of my favorite songs right now.

Unknown Speaker 52:31
So I love just getting on vivo. watching the videos.

Kathleen Shannon 52:41
So this is what I do. And right procrastinate. I watch reanna videos, I watch pink videos. Beyonce, of course, is watch so and then even yesterday, I watched Justin Bieber. What do you mean video, which was the most insane, sexist, weird video I've ever seen. But then I followed I quickly redeem that by watching re Ana's bitch better have my money. Yeah, so good. Um, but whenever it comes to just putting on some music, whether it's working or dinner or whatever my favorite is my friend Jessica Blackstock is a DJ. And she has a playlist on Spotify that she updates every Monday but it just builds on itself. So now it's a really big playlist. And she adds, I think four or five songs every Monday, and it is so good. I find so much new music through it and it's a good mix.

Unknown Speaker 53:45
So um,

Kathleen Shannon 53:46
I think on Spotify, she's jjB stock, but I'll be sure to include a link in the show notes but her playlist is awesome. It's called your weak curated

Unknown Speaker 53:57
by jjp stock anyway,

Kathleen Shannon 53:58
I really love that and it makes me feel bossy usually.

Unknown Speaker 54:02

Kathleen Shannon 54:03
what TV shows make you feel boss.

Emily Thompson 54:06
I like watching shark tank and the profit because I'm a business nerd. David Knight watch those religiously like we have them. We have like Hulu actually we just got we just got like Chattanooga like Internet TV which is the most magnificent thing I literally currently live in the place in the country that has the fastest internet night which is amazing. But um so I guess now we're DVR in them which is really hard for me to function. But shark tank and the profit are the two shows that we watch super religiously and it's probably the only thing that we really stay super up to date with.

Unknown Speaker 54:41
Love them.

Kathleen Shannon 54:44
I've been super into comedy lately. We like to laugh. I like to laugh. That makes me happy. So I actually watched pignataro Rose hour, like Comedy Hour and it was so good. And then I watched the documentary on her. I think the documentaries on netflix and it was also so good. But um, yeah, like even portlandia though lately I'm just super into the funny stuff and so that doesn't necessarily make me feel boss but it just reminds me to bring a certain amount of levity into my life and work.

Unknown Speaker 55:28

Emily Thompson 55:29
with that I need to interject probably one I can't even believe anything about this but something it doesn't again doesn't make me feel boss that inspires me to want to be more boss is RuPaul drag race. I love you or RuPaul drag race so much. And have you ever seen it?

Unknown Speaker 55:49

Emily Thompson 55:49
Okay, think America's Next Top Model but with drag queens love it. It's It's magnificent. Like it's better than America's Next Top Model. And I love America's Next Top Model. Did

Unknown Speaker 55:59
I ever tell you that I auditioned for America's next? Yes,

Emily Thompson 56:04
we should we should do like an extra special minisode that's just you telling that story. He was named for that. Um, but but dragons is actually probably less about the drama and more about the competition than America's Next Top Model is which is hysterical because you would think it'd be the other way around. But RuPaul is such a boss, like, okay, putting this into the universe, I want RuPaul on being boss. Like, I want that to happen someday. Because the I don't know just the energy and purpose that she has for making a place in the world for drag queens. And that whole community makes me super super happy. It makes me want to be that boss too.

Unknown Speaker 56:54
I love it.

Kathleen Shannon 56:55
I feel like even some of my clients who have gone through the braid method we always ask them what experts inspire them and we've had a couple of ripples RuPaul is magnificent

are absolutely magnificent. That's what I will procrastinate today not by watching weird Justin Bieber videos by watching Groupon. Um, what drink makes you feel boss?

Unknown Speaker 57:18
I bought water. That's okay, so here is my thing.

Emily Thompson 57:23
My thing with water and that if I can be ballsy enough to just drink the thing that is like so necessary for me. Then like I'm okay you fell balls walking into a meeting with like your your Starbucks cup.

Unknown Speaker 57:38
Boss walking in with like

Emily Thompson 57:39
a big ol jug of water because I'm be hydrated as hell today. So maybe there's just some really pretentious Emily shit, but I really like drinking a lot of water makes me feel boss, but also on the flip side of that. I also know my gin pretty well. So I love being able to walk into a place see what gym they have on their shelves and very knowledgeably being able to pick out what I want in my gin and tonic.

Unknown Speaker 58:08

Kathleen Shannon 58:09
So mine is on that note, draft beer. I feel kind of boss right and look at what's on tap, and then choose my favorite.

Unknown Speaker 58:18
What is your favorite?

Kathleen Shannon 58:19
I mean, usually I will drink whatever's local. Good. So if I'm traveling, I want to drink what's local, and I like a good IPA. Sometimes they can get a little hoppy or tastes like your wax.

Unknown Speaker 58:34
See, words like that? Or why I don't drink.

Kathleen Shannon 58:41
But I'm really uh, I had a really good pumpkin ale the other day. So seasonal, like what's in season? Yeah. Or what's local? Or what's kind of hard to get?

Emily Thompson 58:50
Yeah. That was my water.

Unknown Speaker 58:52
I mean, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 58:53
basically. No, I

Emily Thompson 58:56
think I think that is good. One of the things that I love about the beer culture is the local pneus of it. And that as you're traveling, you're feeding a local economy, which I think is really rad. And I love the idea of seasonality and, and supporting. I don't know supporting businesses who don't know fake on those terms and beers a place that it's really easy and, and beneficial to do that. So you drink your ear wax.

Unknown Speaker 59:23
I'll drink my gin and water.

Unknown Speaker 59:25
Oh, my gosh. Anything else? Is there anything else you

Unknown Speaker 59:29
want to talk about?

Unknown Speaker 59:30
I don't think so.

Unknown Speaker 59:33
Can we give them the last message? I feel like we just talked about your stuff today.

Unknown Speaker 59:39
So I think

Emily Thompson 59:40
like the overarching theme here was FEEL LIKE A BOSS like Kathleen and I don't always feel like a boss. Like there are plenty of days that we get on these Skype calls and we're like, what are we talking about today? Let's like fake it till you make it. Like what we need to do to be here but as you cultivate have many of those days, they turn into days where you're just like, you know what we are.

Kathleen Shannon 1:00:07
And again, I think that sometimes mindset follows behavior. And it's not that you have to wait to get into the right mindset to behave like a boss so you can behave like a boss. Even if you're not feeling like a boss, whether that's painting your nails, or getting on a Skype call, even if you don't want to, you just got to keep going.

Emily Thompson 1:00:27
You do and I think I think one of the most important pieces is thinking about what makes you feel like a boss. Like we've given you tons of ideas. I like to get good sleep and eat good meals. Kathleen loves a clean car, which is just fantastic. Um, so start thinking about what it is in your life that makes you feel like a boss. Is it like writing in the morning? Or is it putting on your lipstick and bitch boots. So think about what it is for you and go beat boss.

Kathleen Shannon 1:00:59
Thank you for listening to being boss. Find Show Notes for this episode at love being boss calm. Listen to past episodes and subscribe to new episodes on our website on iTunes SoundCloud or Stitcher

Unknown Speaker 1:01:13
Did you like this episode?

Emily Thompson 1:01:14
Head on over to our Facebook group by searching been both in Facebook to join in on the conversation with other bosses or share it with a friend? Do the work. Be boss and we'll see you next week.

I can't believe racism of mine.

Kathleen Shannon 1:01:57
Okay, wait wait I have to pee so bad I'm about to die

Unknown Speaker 1:02:02
All right, I'll be right back

Unknown Speaker 1:02:07

Kathleen Shannon 1:02:09
oh my god, I I dies and put myself in a vise stood up off the bed. Which I'm recording on because it's the most soundproof place in my house.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:22
We need to work on our cake man

Emily Thompson 1:02:26
we're gonna work on this together we're gonna do like a pre podcast recording Cagle exercise for

Unknown Speaker 1:02:31
no one can we do that?

Kathleen Shannon 1:02:33
Or like every time you say Amen, cables know what I'm doing? I'm gonna stop saying

Unknown Speaker 1:02:43
you're doing your cables every time I do it.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:51
Sorry, Cory. We're always talking about embarrassing stuff and know

Emily Thompson 1:02:55
more about us than he ever wishes. He did.