Episode 49

Self Care and Herbal Medicine with Lindsay Kluge

December 8, 2015

Herbalist and nutrition expert, Lindsay Kluge of Ginger Tonic Botanicals, is joining us today on Being Boss to talk about herbal medicine, the mind-body connection, and self-care. Because even as you’re doing the work to be boss, it’s important to make sure you’re treating your body right too!.

Learn More about the Topics Discussed in this Episode
This Episode Brought to You By:
"Your body is designed to be happy. Your mind has a reality that your body just creates."
- Lindsay Kluge

Discussed in this Episode

  • The benefits of working with and collaborating with a community
  • What makes herbs legitimate medicine
  • How do you deal when you're in a funk
  • Gratitude and happiness on a physiological level
  • How to use essential oils
  • Finding your herbal ally
  • Spirituality in earth and plant medicine
  • The mind / body connection and dealing with your ego


Herbs discussed in this episode:

  • Skullcap: Helps the body adapt to stress, tension, and tight shoulders
  • White sage: Used for "smudging." Burn white sage to clear negative energy from your space.
  • Rosemary (essential oil or culinary use): the smell of rosemary helps your mental clarity. Emily uses rosemary oil (aromatic) at her desk.
  • Holy basil (Tulasi): "It's like a hug in a cup!" Drink in tea form to uplift you in your heart space.
  • Thieves Oil: Rub a few drops (dilute in carrier oil) on bottom of feet to support a healthy immune system (anti bacterial).
  • Lavender Oil: Kathleen uses in humidifier (aromatic) for a better night's sleep or to aid in stress. This herb is calming and also aids in heart recovery for grieving/loss/lacking.
  • Ashwagandha: Good for hangovers (along with copious amounts of water)
  • Clary sage: Labor-inducing (Kathleen's experience)
  • Peppermint: Stomach soother

More from Lindsay Kluge

More from Kathleen

Braid Creative

More from Emily

Almanac Supply Co.


Kathleen Shannon 0:04
Get your business together, get yourself into what you do and see it through

Emily Thompson 0:10
being bosses hard. Lending work in life is messy. Making a dream job of your own isn't easy,

Kathleen Shannon 0:17
but getting paid for it, becoming known for it. And finding purpose in it is so doable if you do the work. being bossed is a podcast for creative entrepreneurs. Brought to you by Emily Thompson and Kathleen Shannon.

Emily Thompson 0:32
Hi, I'm Emily and I own indie typography, where I help passionate entrepreneurs establish and grow their business online. By helping them build brands that attract and websites that sell. I help my clients launch their business so they can do more of what they love, and make money doing it.

Kathleen Shannon 0:50
And I'm Kathleen, I'm the CO owner of braid creative where I specialize in branding and business visioning for creative entrepreneurs who want to blend who they are with what they do narrow in on their core genius and shape their content so they can position themselves as experts to attract more dream clients.

Emily Thompson 1:09
And being boss as a podcast where we're talking shop, giving you a peek behind the scenes of what it takes to build a business, interviewing other working creatives and figuring it out as we go right there with you.

Kathleen Shannon 1:21
Check out our archives at loving boss calm.

Emily Thompson 1:25
Welcome to episode number 49. This episode is brought to you by fresh books cloud accounting.

Kathleen Shannon 1:31
Today we're talking to herbalist and nutrition expert and Lindsay Kluge of ginger tonic botanicals. We're going to be chatting about herbal medicine, the mind body connection, and self care. And truly this is one of my favorite episodes we've recorded in a while it was such a delight, talking to Lindsay so I can't wait for you guys to hear this episode.

I think that a lot of us creatives start our businesses as a side hustle. And there is something to be said about going pro. And I think a big part about becoming legit. And becoming a business owner is really getting a handle on your finances to look at where money is coming in and look at what money is going out. And I think the best way to do that and the way that I do it in my business is with fresh

Unknown Speaker 2:21

Kathleen Shannon 2:22
Fresh books is the easy to use online cloud accounting system designed specifically for creative entrepreneurs. And we need some questions in our Facebook group about whether or not freshbooks is good for makers and or service providers. And I will say that they are really awesome for people who are billing for services, whether you're tracking your time or you're doing value based pricing freshbooks is awesome. Just go to freshbooks comm slash being boss and select being boss in the How did you hear about us section and you can see if it's a good fit for you.

Emily Thompson 2:59
Today, I'm really excited because we're talking to herbalist and nutrition expert and Lindsay Kluge of ginger tonic botanicals, who has been an indie braid client and is one of my favorite people on the planet. She's adorable. We're going to be talking about herbal medicine, the mind body connection and some

Kathleen Shannon 3:26
self care. Yeah, I mean, a lot of the creatives listening to the show have been asking for more self care stuff. And I find that a lot of it gets so like I feel like I'm reading it out of a Cosmo magazine or, or just, it's just sometimes real surfacey like take a bath and you're like well done. So one of the reasons why I'm really excited to talk to you Lindsey is because it's not just the typical self care stuff, because you are a legit herbalist, which we'll get into. And I think that knowing the science behind it a little bit and really makes me feel like I'm actually doing

Unknown Speaker 4:03
something. Yeah. So welcome to

Unknown Speaker 4:06
the show. Thanks for coming on to being boss.

Lindsay Kluge 4:08
Thank you so much for having me. I love working with you too, in almost any capacity and being on the podcast is a really big honor. I'm so excited.

Emily Thompson 4:17
Good. We're glad you're here.

Kathleen Shannon 4:19
Well, let's start by talking a little bit. Lindsey about your background, like just tell us about your path that led you to being an herbalist and a nutritionist and what that looks like.

Lindsay Kluge 4:29
I'll just condense like the last 29 years of my life I guess. I did my I love plants like my top three favorite things in life that I love. It's plants and shrubs and trees and herbs and I did my undergraduate degree in horticulture and landscape architecture. And I graduated around like 2008 2009 times my undergrad, which was in the economy just like completely bottomed out and like nobody got jobs. There was nothing to do after I graduated and I Hold on that for like a week and I was like, Okay, I like went to college or so that everybody told you to do. And now there is nothing. But it was during my last year of college that I learned that there was a master's degree program in herbal medicine from the Maryland University of integrative health, which at the time was the only like, accredited school that you could get a master's degree in herbal medicine. And I didn't think anything like that ever existed. I thought that like, if you wanted to learn herbal medicine, you would, you know, go to like an eight month program and spend your time in the woods and then like, do the thing that you love and are passionate about, but still really struggle to get the job. But I loved this particular grad program because it was super sciency. And I have kind of a nerd brain when it comes to like science and plants and now physiology. So that was like the perfect niche for exactly what I wanted to do with the right time in my life was to continue my education but to end with herbal medicine. So that was a three and a half year master's program that also had a built in master's program of nutrition. So we got to do it together. And it was this it was kind of like the woowoo herbal medicine or like he would go out in the woods and cultivate your herbs and you plant it but it was also like Materia Medica and research and paper writing and dispensing like how to run a compounding dispensary. You had a full year clinic. So we got everything in there. So that by the time I was done, I was like, okay, like, I'm ready to be an herbalist and I graduated. It's like nobody's hiring herbalist. That's just not what people do. So it took about six months of like, hardcore job hunting before I was like, No, I'm starting my own business, like I'm not compromising what I've learned or what I want to do. And then I just decided to start a business, which was seemingly easy, but it's hard. Usually hard. So that's how I decided to kind of go into herbs always been a passion. Deciding to be a business owner was like not in the cards until I finished my school completely and was like, well, it's really hard to find a job. And that's how I decided to start my own business.

Kathleen Shannon 7:09
So you started ginger tonic botanicals. But are you still working within a medical practice? Like within a group?

Unknown Speaker 7:16

Kathleen Shannon 7:17
And I think tell us a little bit more about because I love how there's kind of like a blend there. Tell us why that really works for you.

Lindsay Kluge 7:25
I love it. Oh my gosh, it's like the best thing that could have happened with my business. So the first year that I started my business, I was kind of alone ship, you know, I was just doing like one on one consultations, I was renting an office space. And I was custom compounding a lot of different herbs for various medical practices throughout Virginia. And it's really hard to be like an alternative health practitioner, doing it by yourself. Like it's extremely expensive. It's like overwhelmingly expensive, and it's it's marketing is hard, but I still enjoyed it. But it came at a time when I was moving from Charlottesville, Virginia to Richmond. And it just so happened that at that time, an integrative medical practice called Richmond natural medicine was just kind of opening its doors. It had been around for maybe like seven or eight months. And I just went to their open house because I was like, I'd like to meet them not to ask for anything, which has to be like, here's who I am. And I have a compounding dispensary. If you want to use it, I'm happy to help you. And then about five months later, they asked if I wanted to join their practice, and I kind of wanted to like fall to my knees and be like, Oh my gosh, it's perfect. It's everything I wanted. But I was like, Yeah, that would be great. And since then, so for about two and a half years, I have been practicing with four licensed naturopathic doctors, and then I provide the herbal medicine services and also the nutrition services. So we all work together. And it's like the most wonderful partnership that I could have ever asked for. I'm so happy to work with them. I love going to work every day.

Kathleen Shannon 8:56
But are you also allowed to have your own clients as well?

Lindsay Kluge 8:59
Oh, yeah. Yeah, we all have our own clients and our own patients and people kind of seek us out and they call in. And they either have an idea of who they already want to see. Or they have no idea and the wonderful girls at the front desk, kind of get an idea of who they are and what they need, and then distribute them to who they want. But ultimately, we all I would say like 30% of the time, we all kind of help each other with different people. Like every week, every Thursday, we have roundtable for like three or four hours and just talk about cases that we're stumped on. And we're constantly picking each other's brains about like, Well, I know what to do here. But what about this and so we're kind of getting everybody's opinion about how to help each person because that's what I think that's the foundation that all of us come from. It's like how can we most help everybody. It's not just from one practitioner, but it's usually from, you know, two of us are qualified of us. And I think that's what I really missed, like practicing on my own was that like constant kind of let's pick each other's brain and just get everybody's inputs because I don't know everything.

Emily Thompson 10:02
That's, that's fantastic. I love that one of my favorite things about the work that you do within Richmond natural medicine is that you are able to still maintain your own identity. So you know, your brand is ginger tonic botanicals and you, you operate within this larger brand. And with these other people and I love that you're, you're still given the autonomy to sort of do what you do and do what you're best at. But do it in a way that you are a part of something bigger than yourself, and you are all able to give your clients this like, really great service, because it's so many of you put together. I think you have found a very great sweet spot.

Unknown Speaker 10:43

Emily Thompson 10:46
Yeah, it's really great. Um, and then how long would you say you've been there? Two and a half years?

Lindsay Kluge 10:51
Yeah, about two and a half years. Awesome.

Kathleen Shannon 10:53
So I think that for some of our creatives listening, I think that this is also the benefit to joining a co working space, it might not be the exact same arrangement, but we're designed to work in communities and to collaborate and help each other. It's something I'm learning more and more. And so even if you're not an herbalist, you can find ways to collaborate and work with other people in your field so that you're not alone.

Lindsay Kluge 11:20
Yeah, and I also, I don't really believe in competition, either. I feel like there's room for everybody who's good at their job to do what they need, and people will seek you out. And I and it kind of just so happens that I don't think there's any other herbalist in Richmond, I just, you know, but there are like some nearby and like, we're always in touch. And we're always asking each other questions, and like, I'm always sending people elsewhere. If it's if they're asking for something of me that I'm just like, no, it's really not my specialty, but I know someone else who does it. I love sending people to other people, if it's not, if they could get a better a better benefit from them.

Kathleen Shannon 11:59
I would love to hear a little bit more about like what your actual job looks like in the day to day, like, what are you actually doing? And one thing I also want to kind of ask slash touch on is that herbs are real medicine and it sometimes it doesn't seem like it because you can just, you know, go to the health food store and buy some herbs in a pill format and feel like you're safer. Okay, just taking that it just seems almost no way. And I don't mean this as an offense to your industry. But what I loved working about you, or what I loved whenever I worked with you is you were like no, like this stuff is for real. So I'd love to touch on that a little bit as well. So what are you doing all day? And tell us about how herbal medicine is real medicine?

Lindsay Kluge 12:41
Right? What am I doing all day. So I'm officially like, I'm open for appointments Monday through Thursday, nine to five. So like at any point during those days, I'm seeing people one on one like in my office. And there's I usually see maybe between like two and six people a day six is like the maximum number of people I want to see a day. And we do herbal medicine appointments, or we just strictly do nutrition. So it's basically people that will come and say I'm on XYZ medications or I don't want to be on XYZ medications. What else can I do? And it's a big lifestyle shift. So we go through like past medical history. And we talk about what's concerning them at this point. We talk about medicines, they're on what has or has not worked for them in the past and I get an idea of what their imbalances, and then I try to explain it to them in a way that makes sense. And then I can I have a compounding herb dispensary in our office that we all use. And then I throw together a custom compound and formula for them if they want to do worms and I explained it to them about like, why I chose each one and what each one is doing in their body and how long they should take it and what it would do. And we make sure there's no interactions. That's the biggest part of my job is like a one on one. Let's talk about your health. Another huge part of my life is just answering emails, which is like kind of sort of the bane of my existence, but I also I have a love hate relationship with email, but we'll get into that later. pad What else? Right okay, so one on one patient consultations, lots of emails. I'm also doing a lot of research during the week. So if people come in with like a more complex issue that I'm not 100% clear on I do a lot of research for them before I put a plan together. And I also do blogging for Richmond natural medicine and for our local health food store, that I also work as the health coach for them. So on Thursday nights at this local health food store, I offer free consultations for 30 minutes for two hours. So people that can't afford to come and pay to see a nutritionist or an herbalist. I can see them for free. which I love. I think it's amazing that the health food store offers that. Um, and then the rest of the time I deliberately plan nothing.

Kathleen Shannon 14:58
So I have a quick question. Yeah. health food store pay you to do the free consultations for their? Yes. Okay, gotcha. Yeah, like this is just a straight up business model thing, because I think it's something that is a really great idea. And Emily and I will sometimes do I mean, Emily does three and 30. And I will sometimes meet with people. And it's kind of a good way to well understand what people are struggling with. But it can be a good way to get new clients. So I was just curious from a business model perspective how that was working.

Lindsay Kluge 15:29
Yeah, I always wanted to offer like a sliding scale or free appointments, because I mean, ultimately, herbal medicine is that people's medicine, like it should be affordable and accessible for everybody, which is what makes it really special. And really, at the beginning of my practice, I had such a hard time asking for money that I basically didn't get paid. And Kathleen, you kind of straightened me out with that. We worked together last year. But I had this great relationship with the health food store. And I even worked there for a couple of years. And then when they needed the health coach, I was like, if I become a licensed nutritionist, I could do that. And so they pay me to offer free appointments to the customers that come in and basically pay the health food store to stay in business. But they it's like a really nice kind of cyclical thing. So I can offer free appointments but still get paid, which is ideal. And the second part of your question was like, what makes herbs legit medicine? Oh, yeah, that's a really good question. Well, I guess if you want to get really sciency about it, like all of the drugs that you take come from plants. Ultimately, all of them do. They're just kind of an unadulterated form that's really, really specific and really potent. So when you take a drug or a pharmaceutical, it's designed to do like one thing, maybe two things. And it doesn't really effectively and really quickly, they're very glamorous, whereas herbs are kind of more humble, they take a much longer time to work, but they work on so many other body systems, because herbs are not designed for your illness, like they're not designed for your arthritis. They're not designed for your IBS drugs are and that's a really common question I get is like, what can I take for my migraines, and I'm like, there are herbs that like us specifically as a person can take for your migraines, and I know more about you. But they take a longer time to work because there's like hundreds of medicinal constituents within one herb, and they touch on all of your body systems. So they kind of get to know your body in a really intimate way, while also working to kind of adjust and modulate your physiology. And then if you put like five herbs together, that's like 1000 different muscle constituents that work on like so many other organ systems. So you can really target what herbs you want to work when your custom compounding them, which is like super Harry Potter and magical to me. So I feel like I'm in like a storybook when I'm at work, because I get to like throw all these herbs together. But they're legit medicine because I see them work every day. And I see them not working for a lot of people because the internet is like the worst place to go for advice. And so like dosage and quantity and length of time to take a medicine varies so much. And that's a big reason why I wanted to start my blog and like redo my website and get my branding together because I couldn't find anywhere on the internet, like a blog or information that was like targeted for herbal medicine that had like, usable advice that I wasn't just like, you know, it's not specific enough or no, that's not enough information. So that was a big impetus for me to start kind of putting my stuff out on the internet in a blog kind of way.

Kathleen Shannon 18:42
And we'll be sure to include a link to your blog in our show notes at love being boss calm, but I okay, so one of the things and Okay, a couple of things. I love the way that you talk about plants and herbs like it's like there's a real relationship. It's not just this one sided thing where you say, Okay, I'm going to use this plant, it's more of like the plant is like I want to get to know you to live. Well. I love that.

Lindsay Kluge 19:09
Well, I think a really lovely part of our Materia Medica training when I was in herbal medicine school was that they talked about herbs very much in an energetic way while also talking about them in a very sciency way. So it's like there's the like herbs can target like your physiology and changing your symptomology but they can also really adjust like emotional pieces. Like where an earth grows and like how it adapts to weather like really kind of develops its personality. So for example, like one of my favorite herbs is skullcap which is like an anchor to lytic and helps your body adapt to stress and tension and like tight shoulders and anti that helps with spasms in the lower gut. But it's also ideal for the type of person that like the world is too big and bright for them. They just want to go like retreat in a cave. You just want to give them their mom and a teddy bear I like that skullcap like that when I see that present as a person, I'm like, that's the herb I want like, regardless of whether or not they have like spasms or anxiety, it's just like, matching that kind of energetic piece is really fun.

Unknown Speaker 20:12

Emily Thompson 20:13
I just I love watching you talk about what you do, because you are so happy about it. I was telling Kathleen about this, I was like watching her get nerdy about her herbs is maybe my favorite thing on the planet. And it also reminds me of something, something you said to us once while we were doing your brain thing, and it's something that I think about I literally think about this all the time. It's probably the one thing that you've ever said to me, that like stays with me in such a sincere way. And that is that our bodies want to be happy. Yes.

Kathleen Shannon 20:47
I'm so glad. So that Emily, I almost brought that up to you. that stuck with me forever, too. Because sometimes I feel like my body is my enemy. Yeah, yeah.

Emily Thompson 20:57
But like, and whenever you said that I had one of my like, like, inside melty moments where like, my, my whole body was like a very sincere level. So I want to hear you talk about that.

Lindsay Kluge 21:13
That stem from one of my previous teachers who said something along the lines of like, our bodies are designed to be blissed out. And I was like, heck, yeah, like, I can go for that. And I, and then it really just comes down to like, okay, so if you can remember a time when you were just like grieving are so sad or just so angry. Like, you feel that down to every cell of your body, like it just completely overtakes you with that emotion. But then can you remember a time where you were just completely blissed out and happy, like the most wonderful memory you've ever had, like, you feel that right down to a cellular level. And I feel like the more of those experiences we have, like the more neurons are firing, the more enlivened, we are in our own body. And I feel like that really potentially eights a huge part of our healing process. And that's not to say that there's no place in life for grief or sadness or anger. But I do feel like that kind of becomes the default for a lot of people. And one of the things that, you know, we're going to talk about today is like the mind body connection, in terms of like, how you're going to run your business. And I do feel like it's really, really easy, especially for people under a lot of stress or business owners to constantly be in that mode of like self doubt, where like, always questioning your decisions, kind of always getting that inner he or like nothing I do is right. And so that's when I'm like the body is designed to be happy, like choose to do what you love in your mind creates, like your mind has a reality that your body just creates, you know, so we literally have, we create our day to day cycle, we create our job. And Emily, I think it was in the last podcast that you said something like, you know, very few people acknowledge that they already have everything they've ever asked for. And it's just so true. I feel like the more that we can put ourselves on that level of like at least 30 minutes of daily happy really helps us to create the things that we most ideally want. So that's, that's where I'm at with that. I'm all about trying to be happy. And if it doesn't make me happy, I don't do it.

Emily Thompson 23:15
Oh, I love this. Oh, I love that in reference to the fact that you graduated school and you spent six months looking for a job, and you couldn't find what you wanted. And instead of compromising what you wanted, you just started your own business. Like I think like that part of you like this desire to not want to be anything but blissed out, is what has gotten you here and is what makes you so happy whenever you talk about what you do. So if I can just like infuse you, everyone who's listening like this is why we this is why we do what we do and why we why it's such a huge thing I know for me to like live what you love and for you it's it's you know helping people like cure themselves with these herbs that make that bring you so much joy. I mean that's such a huge thing. And that's why I love you.

Kathleen Shannon 24:11
Hey, bosses, did you have a case of FOMO

Emily Thompson 24:14
that stands for the fear of missing out

Kathleen Shannon 24:16
when you saw all the being boss magic go down for our being boss vacation in New Orleans

Emily Thompson 24:22
if you're not friends because we are planning another boss vacation this spring in

Kathleen Shannon 24:27
Miami. So it was really hard to figure out what location to go to. But we've never been to Miami and the reason why we do these boss vacations is to cultivate our creative pack. see different parts of the world. Get some face time with each other, connect with each other and live the boss life. So to learn more details about this boss vacation, just go to love being boss calm slash Miami.

Emily Thompson 24:54
We hope to see you there. Okay, I'm

Kathleen Shannon 25:02
gonna ask I want to ask about Okay, so like, Yes, let's do what makes us happy. But your job is still a job sometimes. Right? Like, I mean, yes.

Lindsay Kluge 25:10
Yeah, I still have like paperwork and intake forms and like read email, like I have bills to pay. And like, all of that stuff totally turns me off. And I wish I just had like a bookkeeper and someone to do all my filing taxes, but I don't. So I do it. And if I don't know how to do it, I asked for help. I think some of the mundane parts of running a business and also especially being in like, the healthcare world is like meticulous record keeping all the time. Like I spend probably five or 10 hours a week, just charting, like finishing up people's charts, like being really specific, why did I recommend something because if someone requests those records, they need to be really clear. Or if like, reactions happen, or like since never happened before, but like if someone needs that it has to be meticulously done. And then like, intake forms and signatures, and thank God, I don't deal with insurance, because I understand never gonna deal with insurance ever, ever. I just won't do it. But every time someone sends me an insurance form to fill out, I'm just like, but I do allow probably like 10 or 15 hours a month, to just keeping my records straight. And I don't know if it's like a tourist thing. But like, I do keep pretty meticulous records, like I file everything pretty. Pretty. Yeah, I can find anything and anything

Kathleen Shannon 26:42
important my house. I don't think it's a tourist thing. You know, I only say that because I'm a tourist, and I'm not very less about that stuff. Thankfully, we have fresh books to help us.

Lindsay Kluge 26:54
And I mean, if you're not that way, having tools that you have to help you, like saves saves your life. And my mom is a tourist, and I feel like nothing would make her happier than coming and like doing all of my filing. She loves it. But I am not that way. But I also have to like devote an amount of time every month to do it. Because if I don't, I'll be like, I can just do that next month, but you can't.

Kathleen Shannon 27:19
Okay, so let's go back to the mind body connection and doing what makes us happy. Here's a question. Have you ever been in a funk and then you just don't know what makes you happy? Or like whenever you're dragged down into the day to day parts of your job that aren't the most blissful fun? Like, do you ever? Okay, here's the thing. Sometimes I feel like I'm a total hedonist. But then other times, I'm just chasing pleasure. Like I'm just chasing pleasure. And sometimes I feel really almost immature about it. Like if it's not bringing me pleasure, I'm quitting. But I'm also an adult, and I have bills to pay and a family to raise so and I guess what I'm trying to, I don't even know what I'm trying to get at. What am I trying to know?

Emily Thompson 28:04
How do you deal with the funk?

Lindsay Kluge 28:07
I get in funks all the time. And my funk shows up as like, I'm not good enough. I'm not skilled enough practitioner. I don't know enough. Like, why is somebody coming to see me I this plan isn't good enough. Like I need to go back to school, I need to go get my MD or my PhD? Like, those are my thoughts with like, I'm not good enough. Why am I doing this? And I say that comes like once every three months, or it comes after like a difficult client interaction, which is very rare, but it still puts me in the funk. And so there are like three things that I do. And I get out of the from. Number one, is I just like research going back to school and see how much it costs. And I'm like, No, I don't want to be in debt. The second thing I do is I talk to my co workers who always like build each other up. Because whenever we're in a funk, especially about like, why we're doing what we're doing, because everybody in the practice, every healthcare practitioner know, always gets in that funk, where they're just like, I'm not good enough, that little ego just kind of starts like fighting away the little monkey mind. And I just talked to other people that go through similar things. And they're just like, look like, you know, so much like so much more than someone else. And someone else knows more than you just always talk and just build each other up because I feel like kind words from other people just totally make my day like that really just kind of pulls me out of any kind of fog. And the third thing is that I just have conversations with people who don't care about what I do or not care about what I do. Like not health related conversations, like I just have conversations with my family or my best friend about other things in life that matter a lot. Like my partner or my puppy, or just, you know, I take into account all the things that are always going well. Because the pattern I see a lot of times when people start to talk about their slump is like here are all the things in life that suck in Like this isn't going well. And this isn't going well. And they never really talked about what's going well. So I always, always, like make lists or mental notes of like, here's all the things that I had asked for that already here. And I think within those three tools, it pulls me out eventually, like, it's rare that I spend like more than four days in

Kathleen Shannon 30:18
a funk. I'm going to talk more a little bit about the gratitude aspect, and just what happiness does to our bodies on a physiological level, because I feel like you're the person that knows about that sort of thing.

Lindsay Kluge 30:31
Um, I think, and this is a good time to talk about it, because this is when like seasonal affective disorder and like low vitamin D, like people kind of get into what I call like the ER syndrome, of like walking around with a dark cloud over the head, and you just have to grumps all the time. And one of the best things that I like to do is no matter what the weather, no matter how cold is spend 20 minutes a day outside, and just enjoy what's happening outside because there's one thing to be hibernating and kind of like be in your little cave. But it's easy to get swallowed up by that. So kind of open yourself up to the bigger picture and always be connected with the season, even if it makes you a little bit grumpy. Another thing I like to do is utilize herbs to make you happy, obviously, because that's not minerals.

Emily Thompson 31:13
What are the happy? What

Lindsay Kluge 31:15
are the happy ones? Well, there's the really common one that most people use is ceremonial sage, or white sage, the smudge sticks. Because once you're kind of in a funk, you kind of like breed that all over your house. And I feel like no matter what room you go in, you're just like, the gloom, it just follows me. So smudging, like every day or every week to just kind of clear out that energy is very, very helpful. And it just smells good. Also, Rosemary is one of my other favorite ones, rosemary, like the actual verb or the essential oil. When you use the essential oil of rosemary. Essential oils in general, just like put you immediately into like the present moment, right? Like as soon as you inhale that you're just like, I am right here. And all that stuff I was thinking about is gone. But when you cook with rosemary, and even just culinary doses, like a teaspoon at a time, it helps your mental clarity so much. And it's even been shown in scientific studies to help with memory recall, help with focus help with concentration, which I think when we're in the gloom, this time of year, it's really easy to just like not concentrate on anything, and you just want to go to bed and kind of retreat from the world. So Rosemary is one of my other favorite ones. And holy basil or Tulsi you guys ever had Tulsi is so good. It's like a hug in a cup. It's like the most. Whenever I drink Tulsi, it's a traditional ru Vedic or it's consumed in India for a long, long, long time. And it's a ceremonial tea. It's used in celebratory occasions. It's a very uplifting has this wonderful affinity for the heartspace that can just like pluck you out of that er syndrome and kind of put you back on the sunshine. And it just tastes really good. And I just feel like having that hot beverage, but little tiny hugs. It's just like, how can you be unhappy?

Kathleen Shannon 33:07
And I feel like knowing more about it, so anytime now that I drink tolsey I think about you Lindsay saying it's a hug in a mug. So I feel like the knowledge behind the herbs really helps me fully integrated, I suppose. Okay, but I want to go back to essential oils a little bit. Can you tell us more about how to use essential oils are there any brands that are your favorite, I was really getting into them. But then I got really scared because I started reading like horror stories about how it might kill my baby or you know, different things like that. So tell us what you know.

Lindsay Kluge 33:42
I'm not an essential oils expert by any means, like I use them really simplistically. Basically just for like aromatic inhalation, I don't eat them. I only very rarely put them on my skin. Like I might put thieves oil in my feet occasionally, but I always diluted in a carrier oil. But I really like to use essential oils specifically kind of for what I just talked about was just like bring you more in the present moment and help your frame of mind because most essential oils are just so uplifting. And some of them are really good for like immune effects or they can be like actively antiviral or antibacterial. So like thieves oil is one of the more like traditional ones to use. It's filled with like antibacterial herbs like clove, so that if you're like washing your hands with these oils, so you're actually disinfecting your hands, but when it comes to like eating them, I don't ever do that because I don't know enough about it. And I'm just not the expert but I love having them in my house and just kind of using them when I'm carrying them around with me in my bag. Especially if I'm driving a really long distance to just kind of like wake me up a little bit.

Kathleen Shannon 34:51
And I love using my essential oils in I don't use them on my body as much anymore because I got freaked out but I'm in like a human A fire. Yeah, and so it's it makes my house smell really lovely. So if we're all sick, I will put some fields in there to kind of makes me feel better. And, or, you know, if, if we all are having a hard time sleeping, I might put lavender in the humidifier. so different. That's a

Emily Thompson 35:17
good, I love lavender. Rosemary is one of mine. And it's one that I keep, I keep on my desk usually. And if I'm ever just having a moment, just taking that out and sniffing it real good. Always, always helps. Again, it's funny, I never really thought about it like that. But bringing me back into the moment. I guess that's what I use it for, without realizing that's what I was using it for. It's kind of cool.

Lindsay Kluge 35:43
I often recommend it just for that purpose for people that just have that constant monkey mind where they just like worry a lot. And they're always thinking three steps ahead. Or like they can just like be by themselves for more than 30 seconds at a time. I'm just like, get some essential oil like lemon balm or lavender just like sniff it every 10 minutes if you want to, or people that like have a really stressful cubicle job. Or it's just an unpleasant environment, they can have that little tiny bottle like a pleasant smell.

Kathleen Shannon 36:12
Alright, I have a question about plants and herbs and smells and kind of utilizing our senses but then also kind of what we're even attracted to. So you know, whenever you are craving food, oftentimes you need that. What about plants? So let's say that I'm personally attracted to lavender, I love the way it looks, I love the way it smells? Could it be possible that I'm craving that because I need it? Or?

Lindsay Kluge 36:36
I mean, what do you think about that? Oh, that's like finding your herbal Allah Kathleen. Like what I love to do. So that's very true. So like, for example, a lot of people that crave red meat might need the higher the protein, some people that crave like, you know, nettles or Danny like me that potassium, I think that it's if you start craving a particular herb, that's kind of how you're, it's like a little friend that you just are starting to make that you want to cultivate a deeper relationship with, and you're not really sure why. And that's kind of what I call the herbal ally. It's like the energetic aspects of each plant are kind of matching your personality a little bit, but filling in the void to the gaps that you don't have. So for example, lavender is also a great thing, zero lytic, it helps you calm down, it helps you rejuvenating, but it also has this wonderful affinity for the heartspace especially for people that are grieving. I think that that's a really nice ally for people to have that are grieving any loss in anything in life, whether it's like a child going off to college or a death in the family, or like the loss of house, just anything that they feel like is leaving their life loving, they're kind of helps to kind of support the heart recover. But I help people find that rebel ally in that way where it's like when we have these one on one conversations. And they feel like the world is not showing up the way they wanted to. Or they're like lacking things in their life or emotions specifically in their life. And they kind of start and I also asked him like, well, what what are you craving? Like, what foods do you crave? What flavors are you craving, because sometimes that kind of adds into like good plants or foods that they can incorporate into their diet that can fill the voids that are lacking.

Emily Thompson 38:17
I always love the idea of an herbal ally. I remember whenever we were working together, I was having a conversation with David one day and I was like, I wonder if I develop my own herbal ally or if Lindsey just gives it to me.

Lindsay Kluge 38:29
I think you'll I mean if you want to depends on how much time you want to devote to it, I guess but I think that people develop their own herbal allies or just plant allies like people feel more comfortable around sycamore trees or they feel more comfortable around like Holly bushes, or they really love drinking camomile tea, you know, I think it's just the things that people are gravitating towards, that they don't think they necessarily be like, I'm going to go see my plant ally today. But I think it's just things that might Alright, but I think people are gravitated to certain things that grow or alive that are in nature that make them feel better. And to me that's an ally whether it's an herb or a tree or shrub anything that's a library food. Okay,

Kathleen Shannon 39:13
so I have a question. We have to go here. So spiritually for me, I probably lean more towards like Earth magic and that sort of kind of expression of spirituality and so for me definitely feeling comfortable under sycamore tree almost feels spiritual. And I guess I'm curious if there's any spirituality for you in there or if there's an or if there is kind of like a scientific, energetic vibration literally happening that backs that up.

Lindsay Kluge 39:46
I wish I could back it up with science, it would make it all sound more legit. I think that it's totally true. Like, I don't have anything to back it up. But I do think that almost every single person that is open to it. And there's like a level of readiness for them to accept that energy from a medicine or a plan, it will benefit them almost 100% of the time. But I think it's really difficult to tell someone like, Oh, just go meditate under a tree. And they're just going to go do it and sit there and be like, I have no idea what to do. Because there's that level of readiness isn't there, you know that you have to be open to it to a certain extent. And I think that kind of getting to know someone and their level of acceptance. So I'm never going to push anything on anybody to be like, you need to go meditate more like have more essential oils because or like get your crystals because some people are going to be like, I'm not coming to see you again. That's not what I want. So I think you get to kind of read people a little bit and get an idea of what they will do. But I'm, I'm with you, Kathleen. Like I think there's a big spiritual piece to being connected with your medicine with nature and being outdoors. And interestingly enough, like my first year of being an herbal medicine school, I was like, very anti spirituality, I was like, all of it has to be like legitimized with science. And we had to be able to talk with doctors and, and then like, the second year, I was just like, oh, man, like all of that, plus all the spiritual stuff makes it much more well rounded. And that's just what works for me. I think it works for a lot of other people, too. Yeah.

Kathleen Shannon 41:22
And that's what I love about you is that you really seem to encompass both sides. And so there is this groundedness to you, but then also this really optimistic, energetic spiritual sight to you. And I just love that I want to be I wish I had all the knowledge that you had.

Lindsay Kluge 41:40
But I wish I had all the knowledge you. The grass is always greener, right. And this is why we ask for help. But I do think that a big part of like, the spirituality in my practice, or in anybody else's business, is like spirituality, I think really helps you develop the intuition, you need to make the bigger decisions. Because I feel like without that kind of external openness, it's really difficult to listen to yourself more intuitively. I think that most of my school life, like elementary school and middle school in high school, like the one thing I was taught was that like, I am basically always wrong, like, Don't trust your intuition, like don't answer questions, you're basically always be wrong. And it took like a decade of like growing out of that and reprogramming. And I think developing more of a spiritual piece really helped with that, because it made me kind of go into myself a little bit more and kind of get to know like, what is my gut saying about this? Like this? This? I don't know, is this like, scientifically true? Or is it like innately true, and kind of starting to balance that and I think that's how I, I grew to be a better business owner, because I was able to make better decisions without being scared. So that makes sense. Yeah.

Kathleen Shannon 42:55
I did a Minnesota A while back where I, while we were still doing minisodes. And I was kind of talking about some of the patterns that I see amongst successful creatives. And one of the patterns I noticed was this element of faith. And it doesn't really matter what how that translates, specifically, but just having that, that element where you're not terrified of uncertainty, and I think that really helps creatives be a little more successful. And I've even since that recording that many said, I've really grown into that idea, I really resisted it. Like whenever I started to notice this pattern, I was like son of a bitch.

Lindsay Kluge 43:36
No, I think that's, that's such a huge like cultivating trust in your decisions stems mentally from being kind and loving with yourself, like period, like your mind is infiltrated with a negative ego all the time. That's like constantly doubting you. It's like every decision you make, the more the more you think ahead, the more expectation you build can sometimes lead to just unnecessary upset. But I think if you just start making decisions from like, the intuition and the intention that you have, no matter what you choose to do, it's coming from a good place. So I mean, you know, the phrase like, ask it Who shall receive I feel like that works some of the time, but like visualizing and working hard with good intention works almost all the time. So it doesn't really matter. If you like I can plan all day long and it probably won't happen. But I feel like at this point, my decisions are coming from a good place. There's that oh,

Emily Thompson 44:33
I agree. So I want to I want to talk about you saying a minute ago that essential oils are not your thing. And I get it, they confuse me. But what is your thing is tea. Like on this amazing, amazing level ABS I love it. I was actually just drinking some of your tea, because I have probably two cups of your tea every day and I have four. We love this stuff. And so whenever whenever we were working together, I went through your, through your one on one engagement. One of the things I'd like to do whenever working with clients is, is see how it is they work with their clients so that I can help them build really great websites and all that jazz. And one, the medical information that I had to fill out for you guys was legit.

Unknown Speaker 45:22
Kind of, like, I don't think I

Emily Thompson 45:24
list I did most of those questions when I got like life insurance, like it was an intense medical evaluation. It was impressive. Really, really impressive. Um, but one of the things that you were able to do for me was you created a custom t blend for me. So I think I was looking at this earlier. And again, I have my Emily D. That's what we call it in the house. I'm willing to just this morning, have it most mornings and a let's say you built it to help me with my immune system which by the way, I currently live in the like, what is it the the allergy belt of the country? Oh, yeah, I have no allergies, is pretty intensely

Lindsay Kluge 46:07

Emily Thompson 46:09
I do I absolutely do. So it was for like boosting immunity and helping with water retention. Because I retain water like a bitch. And things that I was struggling with you were able to to make me a tea blend that helps me with some of these things. So I want I want to hear you talking about tea and why it is that that's that's one of the I guess sort of manifestations of like your herbal awesomeness that you've chosen. And

Lindsay Kluge 46:41
I think that tea originally like herbal medicines been around for 1000s of years. And tea is, you know about the same, like people have been drinking herbal tea, or weeds or whatever for a long time. And I think ritualistically it's just a big part of who we are. We've kind of refined it to a point now where we can like easily have access to almost every herb in the world. And I love putting a tea together for for most people because I'd say about 99% of people are just stressed out and freaked out about their life and tea kind of demands that like you've got to like, stop what you're doing. Take five minutes and make this tea and sit down for five minutes and drink it. And that's one of the main reasons I love giving people tea is because people need permission to take a break. And sometimes they need that permission like three or four times before they actually do it. But putting together custom tea blends is really special. And I think that like hardly anyone that goes to any kind of Western medicine in this country anyway, and very rarely did they get like something special Just for them. Like they get the pill that's used for those with a pill that use for that. And they don't taste anything. But with herbs, it's like we put it together just for you. And we kind of take into account what flavors you like, sometimes, I can make it taste really good. And sometimes it's not so good. But I also like it's a great way to develop a relationship with your medicine, because like you have to take time to prepare it and feel it and touch it and then steep it and then like sit down and taste all the flavors. And a big part of the flavor is the medicine that we don't get in most western medicines. Like we don't taste pills, you know, but we can like really taste herbs and they're really effective. So I've been custom compounding teas for people that come to see me for like I guess for four years so since I've been doing the clinic and working in the business, but then I started I was really scared to like develop tea formulas to sell to just like the public forever like for the longest time and it's something I always wanted to do but I was so scared about the ambiguous sness of like, selling herbal tea because there it's like the politics of it are very complicated. And Emily I really well why like it's like a big. So herb so the supplement industry is not regulated like herbal supplements, capsules teeth, if it is an herbal supplement are considered to be an herbal supplement that is not regulated federally by the FDA, which is great. And it's also not so good. I would never want the FDA to regulate verbs. I'm sorry, that's my dog.

Unknown Speaker 49:17
No, it's like I did I made that face also because fox is upstairs like screaming.

Kathleen Shannon 49:27
Sorry, let's give her

Lindsay Kluge 49:30
the herbal supplement industry is not regulated, which is both a blessing and a curse, right? If it was regulated, that means that most really good small herbalists would definitely not be able to afford to do anything because we would be held to the same standards as pharmaceutical industries who literally have billions of dollars to spend on whatever they need to spend it on. Since it is not regulated, anybody can put together a tea or a supplement or a capsule in Sell it. Which means that if you're buying something, you really have no idea if what is in the bottle is actually there, which means you really have to trust your suppliers and trust the company. So, in the past couple of years that I've like been really into herbal medicine, I've seen a lot of like, really good companies that just like do everything right? get picked on by the FDA, or get shut down for like, nothing for like, miniscule reasons, I guess, or they're demanding to do something of like, you need to like subject all of these herbs to third party testing or to chemical analysis, which cost like $70,000 a year, you know, just things that you just can't, like small herbalists just can't do. They're just, we just can't do it. And it's very ambiguous about like, what guidelines you need to follow in order to be compliant. Because those guidelines don't really exist for herbalist. We're kind of like in this weird, funky little outerspace world where it's like, you can do what you're doing. But you could definitely get in trouble for it. But just keep it's not illegal. It's not like it's like, it's just ambiguous. So I've always been really afraid to like put myself out there too much. Like, what if someone start What if like, the big brother starts picking on me and then like, shuts me down for who knows what reason. So Emily can attest to this, when we decided to be like, Okay, I'm going to do it, I'm going to sell these teas on my website, anybody that wants them. And I'm just going to develop like a damn good product, and be really proud of it. It took like 10 months for that to happen to like, go through all the paperwork and all the processing and just sent the approval and the label, it just takes a long time wait like approval, did you get FDA approved, not FDA approved. But the FDA definitely has to like look at, like, where I'm sourcing stuff and look at my ingredients and look at my labels to make sure like everything is written on there appropriately, and then I have to compound them in a certified kitchen space. You know, I can't just do it at home. So and it's like more expensive to do it that way. And it takes a lot takes a long time.

Kathleen Shannon 52:01
And I can totally you're able to compound it like in your dispensary, or

Lindsay Kluge 52:05
so that's a little bit different. Yeah, if, if I'm at our dispensary at our office, like we are custom compounding for specific individuals, that's a little bit different. And they're signing like waivers and compliance and all that. But since I'm selling to the general public, like that's a much bigger can of worms. So I need to do everything. Like I'm just trying to like cross all my T's and dot all my eyes and do everything as best I can. And because I don't want I feel like when you put something out in the world, and you're like scared about it, it's not going to do very well, right? Because Because you're not really putting your full energy out there. So I wanted to look to everything as best as I possibly could. And then just like set out these teas into the world and be like, okay, we're all like, just take it just do it. And I'm just gonna like 80% they're like, I'm still a little bit scared about it just because I'm just that kind of person, I guess. But I did it. And I love them. And they're so good. And I've like the reception that I've gotten so far from people that have bought them have been really positive and really good. Oh,

Kathleen Shannon 53:12
they're amazing. So that's great for including them in the being boss swag bag, or New Orleans trip. They were delicious. Um, but I'm also curious about I'm actually curious about sourcing and how important that is to you. And do you, you know, or is it organic? Is it not? Tell us a little bit more about that.

Lindsay Kluge 53:32
Yeah, sourcing is super important. It's like the number one priority of my job is to make sure that what I'm getting people is the highest quality possible. And sometimes it's hard and other times it's easier, but by so I do herbs in two different forums. I do herbal teas. And I also do tinctures which are hydroalcoholic extracts, I get most of my extracts from one particular company called Galen sway and they're a practitioner only line but they're really good products like very, very high quality. And I've had great results with them. With like the loose tea herbs, it's a little bit trickier on the shelf life is much much smaller than an extract. And so getting them from a company that sources them like fresh or locally is ideal. Because then the shelf life is longer. I get a lot of herbs from Mountain rose. Most herbs if I can I try to get as locally as possible. But the area that I have some difficulty with is that most of my jobs have to be trackable. So for example, if I give someone a T form, and someone has a reaction or some like something goes wrong, for example, I need to be able to trace that or back to its lot number and make sure that it was what it was. And so from places like mountain rose or other somewhat larger companies, they can give me certificates of analysis that like every herb has gone through testing to be like this is exactly what it is. And this is you know it's not contaminated with anything so I can always go back and make sure that what was given to them and so Like, sure, sometimes with smaller local companies, they can't afford to do that. Like, that's a really expensive process. So I guess, I don't know I kind of weigh it or it's like I often go to different art farms and meet people and like, I think most herbalist can do this, but like I like visually see what it is. And I tasted like organoleptic Lee, we can like figure out what it is. But the FDA also likes to have paperwork. So, so yeah, sourcing is like the number one priority. It's like the highest quality product is possible. And I tend to get it from various different places in order to make sure that the potency and the purity is as good as it can be. Yeah. So I'm really glad that you love the tea. I'm really glad that you gave it away to the being Paul stuff. I loved your last podcast talking about how crazy to talking about how crazy that was? On Bourbon Street or something. We're talking about the craziness of Bourbon Street.

Kathleen Shannon 55:59
There was a good what's a good herbal alhaj for a hangover?

Lindsay Kluge 56:04
Oh, yeah. Water. I mean, really, the reason we get mostly dehydrated is because beer alcohol inhibits your antidiuretic hormone and then you're pinning stuff out on it, you get really dehydrated overnight, and you make up for the hangover. So like in order to prevent that you just drink a ton of water before you go to bed. One of the best herbs i think is great for hangover is actually ashwagandha

Unknown Speaker 56:30
Oh, awesome. Yeah, good to know,

Lindsay Kluge 56:32
I'll have to remember them. But again, most herbs work better. preventatively. So if you can, like foresee that you're going to have just like a really rough morning or afternoon, you know, whenever you're hangovers, that you you can take certain herbs to kind of prevent that from happening. So like liver supportive herbs like dandelion, and milk, the soul to help your liver process all of that alcohol. The day of ashwagandha is really helpful. I think the copious amounts of water is the best thing you can do. It's like such a simple answer, but it's like it's really true.

Emily Thompson 57:10
Hi, guys, Emily here with a bit of a confession. I may be a total boss and even have a geography degree in my pocket. But I suck at timezones. I couldn't tell you the number of times I've showed up an hour late or early for client meetings because I simply cannot wrap my head around who's an hour ahead who's an hour behind and what that even means. Heaven bless my soul when he book an international client, my calendar Wrangler Chris can not glare at me enough. That is until we started using acuity scheduling to set meetings with our clients and in detail biography, their automatic timezone detection and conversion and has saved my goat more than once. And I am grateful that I never again have to laugh off my geographic and competence or apologize for being late ever again. Schedule clients without sacrificing your soul. Sign up for your free trial at scheduling sanity at acuity scheduling.com slash being boss. Now let's get back at it.

Kathleen Shannon 58:20
So I have an herb story I'd like to share but then I was feeling dumb thinking about sharing this because it's like, you know, whenever you meet someone who's a dentist and you're like, let me tell you about my teeth.

Unknown Speaker 58:31
No, tell him

Unknown Speaker 58:34
that was really great to see how well this is great.

Kathleen Shannon 58:37
Okay, so earn pal. So um, whenever I had Fox, my water broke before I went into labor, and I had him at home, which is a whole other story. But I had him at home and I because I wasn't going into labor up to I think it was 12 hours later my water had broken I still hadn't gone into labor. I was pretty sure I was going to have to transfer to the hospital and probably get on a pitocin drip to start labor. And but my doula midwife came over. And I was like you guys, I think I'm going to need to go to the hospital like I'm not going to labor and they're like, Oh, well, we can fix that.

So my doula bust out this. Like she has a whole little toolkit of essential oils. And she opened the clary sage rubbed it on her hands and then did some insane acupressure on my legs. It's funny because I don't remember the pain of giving birth but I do remember the pain of that acupressure on my legs. It was intense. Yeah, but even now, if I smell Clary, sage, I swear I can feel my uterus contracting. Because like I immediately went into labor and Fox is here like four hours later. So that's my herbal story,

Lindsay Kluge 59:53
too. So yeah, and when I hear stories like that, it's like every piece of medicine has a place Right, like I never want to talk anybody out of going to the hospital or going on medications, like I'm never going to talk me out of it. But I also love hearing stories like that, where it's like there are so many other ways that just fewer people know about that work really well. So being able to utilize and have access to midwives and lows is so important, and not every state has that, which is sad, but thank you for sharing. Yeah, you have some like muscle memory with that little herbal ally,

Kathleen Shannon 1:00:28
which is crazy. And then also when other I'm going back to having cravings. Whenever I was younger, I had a lot of stomach problems. And I was always craving those little starlight mints, so they're peppermint. And I didn't even realize until later that peppermint. And correct me if I'm wrong. Lindsay peppermint is a stomach

Unknown Speaker 1:00:48
soother right. Yeah, yeah.

Kathleen Shannon 1:00:50
So I just kind of just interesting that he's naturally craving something that would help me out there. Yeah,

Lindsay Kluge 1:00:58
like I, I can totally relate. I had my chronic digestive issues for like 26 years, like it was awful. My speaking of the mind body connection, like stress makes like my stomach issues so much worse. Oh my gosh. And like my last year of graduate school, I was like 103 pounds, I could eat like mushroom broth and eggs. And that was it. And like herbs were helping out a lot. But it was at that point where it's like my stress level was so high that I was just reacting to everything. And that's how I really got more into like the psychosomatic reaction, the mind body connection of like your mental state and then your physiological state. And that's a big impetus for like, why I encourage people to do self care every single day where it's like, think of how much better you show up for people when you take care of yourself. And most people need a lot of permission to do that. But yeah, self care is like the number one thing I recommend for people, and I don't even care what it is like it can be going for a walk, it can be playing your instrument. You know, being with your dog, being with your family, meeting people for coffee, or tea, just whatever brings you a sense of joy, for 15 minutes, whatever, yeah, multiple times a day, if that's what it takes. You have permission, permission, like, and it can just be anything. And I feel like, again, your body being designed for bliss, you're going to show up better for everybody that you come in contact with, if your stress is just a little bit down. So

Emily Thompson 1:02:34
for me, for me, it's getting up before everyone else in the morning and drinking my cup of ginger do legit alone. Because I have to be alone. And the mornings that I don't have that I'm mad,

Unknown Speaker 1:02:51
like, yeah,

Emily Thompson 1:02:51
that self care piece is the older I get, the more important I realize it is. And I think that giving people permission to do that. One, it's sad that we have to give you permission, but I get it because sometimes I needed to.

Lindsay Kluge 1:03:07
Yeah, most people do need permission or, and maybe five or six times with me giving them permission. And most of the time, I'm like schedule it, put it in your calendar, set a reminder on your phone, if it's just being if it's taking a bath for 10 minutes alone, if it's just like going away from your family for 10 minutes before bedtime. Like I don't care what it is, if it makes you happy, schedule it and make it happen because it's the first thing that kind of drops off people's calendar.

Emily Thompson 1:03:34
I think you need to go give that dog some self care.

Lindsay Kluge 1:03:38
She wants to go for a walk right now. And I put her downstairs and I was happy, sweetie, be quiet, be good. Like, I'm gonna go talk to Kathleen and Emily. Like I gave her that whole little pep talk. And I think it's just like people are outside and she gets excited.

Kathleen Shannon 1:03:50
It's okay, I gave foxin pep talk and He's upstairs.

Jeremy with them. He's not alone.

Emily Thompson 1:03:59
He just locked him in his room and told him to be good.

Kathleen Shannon 1:04:01
One of the things that I really took away from this conversation that I really want to start doing is that getting outside peace and connecting for even just 20 minutes a day, but not even. Because sometimes whenever I go on a walk, I'll just throw on my headphones and listen to podcasts, which I love doing. But I really want to start noticing the plants that I'm attracted to, and maybe even, you know, pinching some herbs between my fingers and smelling them and just really kind of engaging with the even limited nature that I have around me. Because that's so important. And for me, that's whenever I really feel best is whenever I take the time to do that,

Lindsay Kluge 1:04:39
oh 100% like whenever and I'd encourage you that when you do that, like definitely don't keep your headphones in. And if you go up to a plant Don't try to identify it. Don't try to name it or think you know what it is just like look at it and get to know it and smell it like even if you know what's rosemary, don't be like oh, Rosemary bush. I know exactly what that sensation is going to be like but Just open it up to a new experience all the time. In my daily life, like I take my dog for a walk every day for like a mile and a half or two and I never had my phone with me, I don't put my headphones on, it's just like my time with my pup. And even though I can identify all the trees, because I love that I make an intention not to, because I feel like that really kind of clouds, my judgment, a little bit of like what I expect it to be. But I think that even if you're outside for 15 minutes a day, go touch something that's alive or that's dormant. And just like thank you for being there. Even if you live in a city. Because connecting yourself with anything that's living or especially that's around you, helps to ground you big time.

Kathleen Shannon 1:05:42
I love that so much. Do you have like 10 more minutes, Lindsey? Yeah.

Okay, I want to keep talking about this because the idea of don't label something is huge. And it's something that Emily and I were even talking about just the other day because after we came back from being Boston, New Orleans, we sent out a survey. And I noticed at New Orleans and even just in general conversations that we're having with creatives, people are really quick to label themselves as introverts or extroverts. So I even ask people in the survey question, Are you an introvert or extrovert? And it was one of the first questions I asked and I'm, we should have a be tested it because I'm curious how people would have responded if we had not asked that differently. Because 100% responded introvert, there was one person was probably an extrovert. But everyone else responded introvert and so there is this thing about putting labels on anything. So okay, even earlier, when are you talking about go outside and experience the weather, no matter what the weather is, I think about that a lot. whenever it's really hot outside or really cold outside, I want to label it good or bad. Like this weather is cold. It's shitty, it's bad. But the truth is, if you were, let's say a bird,

Unknown Speaker 1:06:52
a lot smarter than birds.

Kathleen Shannon 1:06:53
But I do like thinking that animals are just experiencing nature, they're not labeling it good or bad. And so maybe if we can bring a little bit of that into our lives to even translating that into our work day, like maybe email isn't the bane of our existence, maybe it's just email.

Lindsay Kluge 1:07:10
Yeah, no, that's exactly right. Because you we project our emotion on every single thing we see and do every day. And when our emotions are constantly too shitty and doubtful. That's how everything shows up in life for us. And I think that's why like, being happy, like at least sometime during the day where it's like, you could just have this like, quote, bad, rainy, drizzly cold day. But if you're in a pleasant mood, like you're projecting pleasant emotion on that it's not bad anymore. So and that comes to people too. So like, not just nature, but one of the biggest things I learned as a clinician is to never ever make up stories about people. Because even though someone might show up for you, you might look at their face and be like, wow, they're really pissed off. Like that just might be their face their hair. Or like someone who you just like red in the face, you're like, Oh, they must be really embarrassed. Maybe that's not the case. Like we make judgments about people all the time and kind of put labels of emotions on people and make up stories about people that I think as people and especially as clinicians, like you just can't do, like you have to talk to them and get to know them until you can, they can present themselves as they really are. But bottom line is like we project our emotions on everything, on everything. And it changes our experience, we could have a groundhog day and have like a totally different experience. Because we're in a better mood.

Kathleen Shannon 1:08:34
So yeah, it's kind of like so the way that I started to really realize this is, for example, I can go see a movie with my husband, we can see the exact same movie and experience it totally different. Yeah, I could have thought it was amazing. And he could have not liked it so much. So I think that we're always seeing and hearing. So not even projecting but kind of choosing what we take in.

Lindsay Kluge 1:09:00
Yeah, I think it's like our inner ego filter. Or its, I think that's what I mean, we always have this ego in our brain that is constantly kind of developing negativity, and you have to like really develop a practice to get rid of that inner ego, and just, like see something without placing any judgment on it, or it's just like it is what it is. It's not good. Okay, can

Kathleen Shannon 1:09:28
we talk about this for a second, though, because through meditation, I started to really develop kind of like reframe my relationship with my ego. So we're always taught that our egos are kind of these, this negative thing overtaking us, but I have found and I don't know if it's true or not, again, it's just from some self reflection, and meditation, but I think that a lot of times my ego, it's a bit of a double edged sword and I feel like my ego is is what has helped me drive me in my business. But it is a balance right of not letting it completely take over. So I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that maybe like even reframing our ego as not a negative thing so

Lindsay Kluge 1:10:10
much. Yeah, I, I really agree with you. Because I do think that ego has a place in terms of, like self, overly self confident about things. And I learned this probably my, maybe second year of being a clinician where it's like, I'm not, how should I phrase this, like, I, it is not my doing if anybody gets better, or if anybody gets worse. And it like the first two years of working like 90% of the time, most people were getting so much better. And I was like, Oh, it's because of all the things I did for them. But really, it's like, I didn't do anything. Like I can't take it personally if they get better. And I can't take it personally if they get worse, because there's so many extraneous factors that I can't control. So I do think that keeping my ego kind of team of just like, oh, people seek me out because I'm a good herbalist is not like that's not true. You know, I just I just facilitate information for people. And they do with it what they will they're doing all the work. You know, I'm just like a conduit of information. But in terms of

Unknown Speaker 1:11:22
Have you watched, have you read Elisabeth Gilbert's Big Magic yet, or watched her TED talk

Lindsay Kluge 1:11:26
on creativity? Yes, I've seen the TED Talks.

Kathleen Shannon 1:11:30
So I feel like Big Magic is kind of an extension of that Ted Talk, where it really she talks about your genius being like a literal, tiny elf that hides in the walls and comes out and helps you do your art. It means that if your art sucks, you can't you It's not your fault. Yeah, this was off that day. Yeah, then if your creativity is awesome, you also can't take all the credit because it came from somewhere. So again, linking back to the spirituality, I guess that's what helps me keep my own ego in check is whenever I do acknowledge and recognize that the things I do come from somewhere else, and I think one of my ego does get in the way that's number, the struggle becomes more real. So it again, is I feel like my ego is a good driver, but I just can't imagine it like having a jetpack on and that my ego is the jetpack. But I still get to control where I go. Sometimes a jet pack though, can kind of take over and I'm like, you know going crazy.

Lindsay Kluge 1:12:34
So that's an array need to get it and check that I love the way you put that or it's like the ego was your jetpack. I love that. No, I completely resonate with everything that you just said, keeping the ego in check, is I think it was the hardest thing for me to do for the first few years that I was in practice. And I think that that also drives me to constantly be learning more. Like I'm always going to other lectures and reading more and walk watching TED talks and like doing continuing education stuff, just so that I am like constantly exposed to how much I don't know. And I think that that used to like freak me out. Because I was thinking I'm not a good practitioner. There's so much I don't know. But now I know that there's so much that I know that other people don't. And there's this huge amount of information, like I'm 29 years old, right? Like, I should have at least another 50 years of learning stuff to facilitate to other people. So learning more all the time is the best medicine for my ego. Like that's what I had to keep it in check. Yeah. Emily, do

Unknown Speaker 1:13:43
you have any other questions? No, just

Unknown Speaker 1:13:45
love. Well, I

Lindsay Kluge 1:13:49
have so much love for you. And everything that you both have done for my little business and especially my website, because I'm only you can attest how awful my website was before your magic hands.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:00
We made it Fantastic.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:03
Well, and I

Emily Thompson 1:14:07
along the lines of what we were just saying in terms of you know, you are the one who like who creates that experience for yourself. Like, you know, I do envy booms with with a lot of people and your results. Were probably some of my very favorite. And I know it was because of the attitude that you've kept the entire time. Because you know, relaunching a brand building a website. Doing the crazy product like you weren't going to make tea for two years like you were not going to release consumer tees for two years. That was your goal. Whenever we started our indie boom and you did it within, like you decided to do it within six months and then it took you the 10 months to actually do it. But that for me just a test to like you being one of those people who goes into something With such the right mindset and with the hard work to make it do, and that you are totally proof that that affects the outcome in really great ways. And so if anyone takes anything from this, like, adjust your mindset, deal with your ego, be happy because your body wants you to be find yourself some really woowoo herbs to, like, help you along your way.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:27
And just

Emily Thompson 1:15:28
do it and be happy about it. Because I agree, I think that if, if you go into it with the right attitude, and you have good intentions, and you do the work, the outcome is more often than not going to be spectacular.

Kathleen Shannon 1:15:42
And we're gonna have to do a show later on, where we really, maybe get some stuff in sagmeister did a happiness project, I'd love to get him on the show, right? I have a big old crush on stuff inside. Anyway, I'm blushing over here, now just talking about it. So I want to get someone on there to talk about happiness. And what I loved about Stefan sagmeister is happiness project and you can watch his TED talk on it is that and for me, even recently, I experienced this where I thought I should be able to mindset my way out of being sad, and I couldn't. So I would love to talk to someone more about happiness and how to kind of cultivate happiness, whenever you just can't

Unknown Speaker 1:16:27
suck it up,

Kathleen Shannon 1:16:28
you know what I mean? So I'm just throwing that out there because it's something I've experienced personally within the last year and a half. But I also want to mention, on the same note, as you, Emily, with Lindsey, your branding was one of my favorite projects, and I love everyone that we work with. But whenever I look at your branding, it's like you designed it yourself. I mean, for me, it feels like you

Lindsay Kluge 1:16:55
owe 100% I love and our brand director, Liz

Kathleen Shannon 1:16:59
who designed all of your stuff, she actually just had a baby, by the way.

Lindsay Kluge 1:17:06
I mean, one of the biggest reasons that I like worked with both of you is because I had, I had like the vision of what I wanted and putting it on the like putting out a screen. I like I can't, I just can't have the ability, like I'm struggling right now to just like flip an image on my computer and I can't figure out how to do it. So that's why I that's why I asked for help. And like how much you all listened to exactly what I wanted and just like had these lengthy conversations with me. And then when you like presented like, okay, here's what we did, I started crying, I was like, how did you do.

Kathleen Shannon 1:17:46
But you also showed up not only in sharing all that information that you did and having those lengthy conversations with us, but I feel like you showed up almost energetically like you went into the process with both of us knowing that it was going to be good and that goes a long way. So we just had Jay prior on the show and he talked a little bit about pre paving and that's where you expect a good experience and more often than not, you're going to get that good experience so I feel like you did that I feel like you pre paved that good experience

Lindsay Kluge 1:18:19
I try to go into everything I do with a really good intention. So like I said any like visualizing it and working with good intention and working hard usually means you're gonna come out on the other end with something really good and then just working with both of you I feel like is fair we just like fit for like it's a really nice dynamic that we have in your book.

Emily Thompson 1:18:40
I think you're my herbal ally

Kathleen Shannon 1:18:46
tell us more about where people can find your teas and your blog and all of that so

Lindsay Kluge 1:18:50
my everything is on my website at ginger tonic botanicals calm that's where I have the blogs that's where I have my little online shop with the tees which shamelessly self promotion are great for Christmas gifts and holiday thing. Yes, that's where you can find everything. I'm selling them in one local place around Richmond at all what Thompson's and that's where everything is my office at Richmond natural medicine that's where I see people one on one I don't really do any Skype stuff at this point mainly for privacy and paperwork purposes. But if you're in the Virginia area and you want to come see me You can check out the contact information on my website at ginger Tom botanicals calm. And I'm on Instagram and Facebook. Because not only prompted me to do that, which is like a whole nother like I suck at social media. Like you're saying, I can't go into that with a lot of positivity but I'm writing a story that you're telling a story I'm telling. That's one of the biggest things I'm working on now. It's like how to come to grips with my love of social media. cultivating a love of social Media

Emily Thompson 1:20:01
I'm doing well you're doing it beautiful.

Lindsay Kluge 1:20:03
That's where you can find the team. It can can I make

Kathleen Shannon 1:20:05
a recommendation, and I'm sure that Emily's talk to you about it. But like, whenever it comes to loving social media, I just recommend that you have the intention, really your core purpose and why you do anything, which is to help people. Right, right. So just think of it as an extension of that. And, and maybe that will help. I just throwing that out there. Like don't don't look at all the negative stuff about social media, I'm probably more positive about social media, and I see a lot of negative stuff. Like it's all fake. It's all bullshit. And for me, it's not it's very much a real part and a real extension of who I am sure it's distilled. Sure, it's curated. But, um, I yeah,

Lindsay Kluge 1:20:49
I just think that if you can find your purpose, and why you're posting what you're posting, it'll make you feel less kind of a part of the rat race. That is such a good way to look at it. And I think initially, I was like, the last thing I want to do during my day is beyond the Internet, and be on my phone more when I'm just like charting and answering emails all day. But I have met such amazing people through social media, especially from Instagram. It's like, it's an amazing community on there. And I don't think I've ever once been like, I'm not popular enough, I need more fall. Like, that's just not, I just don't, I don't get the rat race of that. But it's fun, and it's beautiful. And I like to kind of cultivate that. And I've I'm developing more of a love for him and like actually putting more time into it. Because really, like you're gonna get the time you put into it much like anything in social media. To me, it's like, Okay, the last 3% of my day might be devoted to that. But I'm shifting it a little bit. I want to, I want to make it more of a live presence. So that's kind of where where I'm at right now.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:55
Thanks so much for joining us. It

Kathleen Shannon 1:21:57
has been so good reconnecting with you. And I know that I hope that our listeners know they're going to love you. They love you.

Lindsay Kluge 1:22:06
Love you. And I love so much for all of your I'm sorry, like your what you put together with being boss. I love that community. There's so much fun. They're just great people. So thank you for bringing them all together. I love them. This has been great. It's been such a privilege to talk with you both.

Kathleen Shannon 1:22:27
Thank you for listening to being boss. Find Show Notes for this episode at love being boss calm. Listen to past episodes and subscribe to new episodes on our website on iTunes, SoundCloud or Stitcher.

Emily Thompson 1:22:40
Did you like this episode? Head on over to our Facebook group by searching being boss on facebook and join in on the conversation with other bosses or share it with your friends. Do the work be boss and we'll see you next week.

Kathleen Shannon 1:23:11
Hey bosses, oh eight plane there's a plane as my baby would say airplane. Oh.

Unknown Speaker 1:23:22
sweet kid.

Unknown Speaker 1:23:23
He's so cute.

Emily Thompson 1:23:25
The plane gone.

Unknown Speaker 1:23:26
Can you hear it? Can you hear the airplane Alright, it's gone.