Episode 56 // Owning Your Creative Expertise with Tara Street

January 26, 2016

Today we’re excited to have Kathleen’s sister and business partner for Braid Creative, Tara Street. We’re talking all about owning your creative expertise—whether you’re a boss on a team or THE boss of your own business—so that you can assure your clients and not have to start over from scratch with each new project. Tara is a master at helping clients find and own their expertise, and she’s even sharing a script you can use to help you feel more boss.

Learn More about the Topics Discussed in this Episode
"What you write shapes, in many ways, what you become."
- Tara Street

Discussed in this Episode

  • Leaving your dream job to start your own business
  • Finding your process and your method
  • Being a boss in a team when you aren't THE boss
  • Transitioning your expertise and blending your experience
  • How to find clarity in your message
  • Sharing your expertise and your process
  • How to balance experimenting and being methodical


More from Tara Street

More from Kathleen

Braid Creative

More from Emily

Almanac Supply Co.

This Episode Brought to You By:


Emily Thompson 0:05
Hello, and welcome to being boss, Episode Number 56. Brought to you by fresh books, cloud accounting.

Kathleen Shannon 0:13
We have a very special guest with us here today. And it's actually my sister slash business partner who I'm always talking about on the podcast. But well here, Tara Hi.

Unknown Speaker 0:25

Kathleen Shannon 0:28
So we got a case of the giggles right as we're recording this and we can't stop. So we're kind of in a giggly mood. But Tara is truly not just my sister, but one of the most brilliant people in the world. And we can

Emily Thompson 0:41
vouch Amen.

Kathleen Shannon 0:43
And we're really excited to finally have her on the show to talk to you guys about being a creative expert. Clarifying your positioning. I mean, I'm saying it in ways that sounds really boring, but

Emily Thompson 0:55
and what it's like to be Kathleen's sister.

Unknown Speaker 0:58
Oh, yeah. That's half. That's half that. But

Emily Thompson 1:02
that's half the battle right there.

Kathleen Shannon 1:07
Get your business together, get yourself into what you do, and see it through

Emily Thompson 1:13
being bosses hard. Blending work, and life is messy. Making a dream job of your own isn't easy. But

Kathleen Shannon 1:19
getting paid for it. becoming known for it. And finding purpose in it is so doable. If you do the work. Being boss is a podcast for creative entrepreneurs. Brought to you by Emily Thompson and Kathleen Shannon. Check out our archives at love being boss calm. All right, but first, you guys always hear us talking about fresh books, cloud accounting, and I have to tell you, Tara is the person in our business who is actually keeping track of our income and expenses through fresh books. So Kara, why don't you speak firsthand? What is your favorite thing about fresh books?

Tara Street 2:03
I love how fresh books makes everything visual. That sounds very rehearsed. I had I forgot I was going to be talking about that fresh but

Emily Thompson 2:11
I really just put her on this No, I

Tara Street 2:12
was just in a fresh book. I really like having visuals so I can look at charts and reports and all that good stuff that I you guys know I love charts and reports. But I also just love being able to just get in there and it really feels neat when you get a new client. You can send them your their first invoice, you can progress invoice them halfway through, you can invoice them again at the end. It's not that I'm all about I love invoicing the clients, but there's something about like huddling says the transfer of energy, there's something about being able to touch and see the money and see where it's coming in and going out and it just makes you feel legit, like you're a legit business owner doing biz. Yeah, so

Kathleen Shannon 2:57
you guys can try fresh books for free for 30 days by going to freshbooks comm slash being boss and enter being boss in the How did you hear about us section so that you too can look legit. All right, just like Tara.

Unknown Speaker 3:15
Um, well,

Kathleen Shannon 3:17
let's get into it. So, Kara. We know the story. But tell us a little bit about your background coming from the agency world because I don't know how many people already know this. But you were a creative director VP at an ad agency for almost 15 years. That is correct. I worked at an advertising agency in Oklahoma City. So we're from the Midwest.

Tara Street 3:44
But a city with plenty of advertising agencies and I worked my way up through a small advertising agency that became a bigger advertising agency over the 15 years I worked there. And it was awesome. It was a dream job. It was me designing and then writing and then creative directing, directing, and then getting to do television commercials and all that stuff. I grew up fantasizing about honestly watching shows like 30 something or I feel like everyone's occupation 80s movies or shows was you know advertising agency, graphic designer, you know or owner and the madman came around but anyway, I felt like I was living Wait, so

Kathleen Shannon 4:25
who are you in madmen.

Tara Street 4:29
I you know who I am a madman. I am a weird, strange painful mix of a don draper and a Peggy. So whenever Don Draper and Peggy have scenes together, I kind of have to like put my hands over my eyes or almost you to channel because it's so tense for me because I'm definitely like a Peggy and that I was a copywriter. And you know what even the state and age there aren't a lot of women creative directors. It's a guy's world. But then I also kind of always sided with dogs. Because if you watch the show, he was kind of telling her how it was. And he was in charge of he was the boss. So I was the boss and I was the young, creative director coming up. Now I also had a boss on my own. I was just the boss of my career department.

Unknown Speaker 5:14
And so to me, you were the boss of me five

Tara Street 5:17
years. I was bossing you for five years. And when our CEO was like, why don't you hire that intern Kathleen and your sister? I was like, You don't know what you're in for. But

Emily Thompson 5:31
wait, didn't didn't no one know that? You guys were sisters for a while? No, they didn't. It was a thing. Right? They

Tara Street 5:37
did in the team. Right? So it was probably 15 or 20 people, maybe 25 people. And Kathleen was interning there, which is all in the set. Your sister's interning no big deal. But we really needed to awesome kick ass designer. I want to Kathleen. So people inside the agency knew. But when we started meeting with clients, we were really embarrassed about it. And we never really talked about it. And then it got awkward. whenever it's not we look a lot alike. But we maybe podcast listeners can attest to this. We sound a lot of like, and so sometimes if a client hadn't seen us for six months, they would get confused. Like who

Kathleen Shannon 6:12
and I think even like our mannerisms and yeah, okay, but then new people would get hired on in the agency. And I'd be like, Oh, my sister, blah, blah, blah. And they would think that I was like, hey, sister eat?

Tara Street 6:24
Like, we forgot to tell them like, hey,

Kathleen Shannon 6:27
yeah, like, hey, sister. So anyway, a lot of a lot of people in the agency whenever they would start didn't know. And then that was always funny. Whenever they found out we were sisters.

Unknown Speaker 6:38
It was hilarious.

Kathleen Shannon 6:39
Hilarious. So then, so then I quit the agency after about five years. And because I had been blogging, I was gaining some traction with freelance on that side of things. So I quit. And I was working for myself for a year. And then Tara, but all of you,

Tara Street 6:57
yes, I worked with an executive coach, which five years, you know, my, the CEO, he's wonderful, he hired this executive coach for me, because I think he thought me being restless and not quite knowing what was wrong in my dream job. Right. And, and so I worked with Jay prior, who was a former guest of yours. And I remember talking to him and working through some stuff. And then he asked me the question one day after about, I'd say, two months of working together, having weekly meetings, where I was like, in a broom closet on my phone. Later because I was at work. I probably was like an open concept agency, right? So I'm in the broom closet on the phone talking to my coach Jay, he's wonderful. And he said, if you could do I know you have a great job on paper. Nothing's wonderful. But if you could do anything you wanted, and you weren't afraid, what would it be? And my answer was very specific. I immediately said I would work with my sister, Kathleen. You don't know her yet?

Unknown Speaker 8:00
We're like, BFF. So

Tara Street 8:02
yeah. And then and then he's like, well, just, you know, kind of think on that probably thinking, What am I going to do? Like, her boss just hired me to coach her. But a week later, when I came back to my session, I get the Keith, I was just daydreaming about it. No, we had like a business plan. And we everything was done. I mean, we had our brand. I mean, we really got energized by the idea of working together again. And I will say it's probably because and probably a lot of our listeners can relate to this maybe once we're even closer my age. So I'm 40. And I definitely felt like halfway nicer. Kathleen's, is there kind of out your age, that's fine, seven years younger than me. And I think in that seven years, there's a little bit of a nuance on being on one side of the online business world and the other side, even just social media and all that and all that entails. So you had been in the blogging world and the sharing world in the storytelling world, right? Where it's more fluid, it's online, it can be with anyone, and I was still more than traditional, you craft your story, you present your story, you make people cry with your story, right? Because it's all shaped and crafted and put out there as a television, commercial, or brand video or this or that. And so two different worlds. So it was exciting to kind of jump into your world for a little while and be and really rely on you as the boss of many things while you still relied on me as the boss of many things. And so that's been really exciting and cool. And an interesting dynamic to get to take turns being bosses of each other.

Kathleen Shannon 9:32
Yeah, and it's not. I mean, I even know that we're going to talk about this, but it's not always the most comfortable thing. Because I'm so used to you being the boss that whenever I have to be the boss, sometimes I'm like, Oh shit, but then other times, you know, I'm like, No, I know this. And then you're like, it's just it's an interesting tension at times, but usually I feel like we're really good at trading back and forth and being like, Okay, I need you to make this decision or I need you to help me out this decision. Oh, okay so we started braid together and and and and whenever we were doing that well probably a few years in of starting braid we really started to define our clarity of purpose like i wanted to understand what is our higher purpose why are we doing this because whenever we started the business together it's just kind of a no brainer but my goal was to be 100% who i am and sharing in everything that i'm doing like you said along the way so what would you say your goal was and like the one thing that you really wanted out of braid and running your own business especially being so new to it it's not like we come from a family of entrepreneurs so like what what did you imagine it was going to be like and what did you really want out of it

Tara Street 10:46
right i thought i was gonna work in the job i thought i thought i was gonna work in the job and career that i had forever like i was a lifer i was in it and so when i had this shift it was scary but really exciting and i just remember talking to you and being having that conversation i remember that conversation we're like what do we want out of this you know i remember we said we want to be sustainable the things that most people say when they start out especially if they're leaving a larger job to like go off on their own right for the first time so they might say things like i want to be sustainable i just want to be holed up pay my bills doing what i love i don't you know me i don't even go as far as say doing what i love i like doing i love within the realm of logic and what i'm actually best at right um all those things and everyone says i don't even care if you remember i don't even care if we get big i just want to be able to maybe make the same as what i'm making now disable all that but then when i really dug in i said you know what i want because you come back kathleen of course with your okay here's like deeper purpose i want to be 100% i who i am everything i do and share that with other people and like oh right right right okay so like what's my deeper purpose and i said honestly i just want to feel like an expert and i want to know that what i'm talking about or speaking to not just like in an interview like this but my speaking with our clients that i know 100% that sounds strange that i'm in the right does that make sense like i know what i'm talking about we've done this 100 times and it's not like me bossy of them it's so that i'm not starting over from scratch every time i spent too many years coming up with the next concept right based on how creative you could be you're clever you could be winning that pitch and winning that client for the agency and i love the idea of working through a process and a method that i could then really see patterns again and again in the creatives that we work with and just really helped them feel heard and understood but then bring to the table like listen i've been i've heard this before here's what we're seeing let's help you this way so i just love that idea of feeling like a creative expert in everything we do and not feel like we're faking it because at the beginning days you have to accept that a lot of times you feel like you're faking it and so that was my desire was to feel like we're not this isn't fake this is for real

Kathleen Shannon 13:15
right and you know it's so funny because coming up in a creative background i think that i always really liked the idea of starting from scratch even though it creates a lot of fear in you so i think it was even just like last year i was like you know that method process thing that you're preaching tara like wow i get it like it only took me four years but i would say like you know even emily and i both like this is why we're constantly launching new themes or starting a podcast and we're constantly venturing into things that we don't know so there is something really nice about just being able to rely on a method or a process and sometimes we will ask us how do we book out so far in advance and again i think it's because we know our method and we know that we're not going to have to i mean we're figuring new stuff out for our clients but our approach is the same every time and i'll let you talk about that more

Tara Street 14:09
but i know because when you start talking about it it can sound a little assembly line ish

Unknown Speaker 14:14
exactly but

Tara Street 14:17
it really isn't i don't know how to say that more clearly it's not like you're creating a product over and over and over again that's cookie cutter you're just using the same techniques and tools to get the information you need so we do branding right so we created this method to get the information we needed to know we were really serving our client and and right like we were reflecting back at them what they're telling us in a way they never heard it before and that tool just happened to become a method that works for us every time so emily you've been sorry cut you off you've been on the other end of this like what what did it feel like going through the method

Kathleen Shannon 14:57
well and also emily's clients go through the method now

Emily Thompson 15:00
you yeah i mean i love it that's that's why we put our clients through it i love that you guys because you also came out of the gate with this method developed i mean you launched braid with the braid method and so it wasn't even an i know it's gone through a couple of a couple of transitions over the years because i've been through it 10 times at this point like starting with myself god four years ago with indie shot biography and then and then now we put i don't know probably easily a third of our indie boom clients through it if not more than that so i know that it's changed a bit but my favorite thing about it was that you guys came out of the gate launched braid creative with the braid method and it was this solid method that you use to put your clients through so that you could get the information you need so that you could give them what they need so i mean i love it it's i always found it super inspiring as someone who who started from the ground up not with 15 years under my belt but with like you know a website i'd built for myself once i like had to develop that for me so for me like i definitely was super inspired by the braid method and and how it was that you guys had created this method for your creative for your creativity that allowed you to book clients easily because you knew what you were selling and it allowed you to service your clients easily because it was the same method for each one and allowed you it allowed you to book clients out because you knew exactly how much time it would take to process each client it was i love it i think it's i think it's something that every creative service provider can learn from this idea of of knowing what you're good at to a level that you can create this package that you can sell over and over again and service each of your clients in this in this really really pre built way but it ends up being a super unique experience for each one and i can speak on that because i've literally gone through with 10 different clients and every single one of them is so in love with what they get out of it it's it's by no means the same thing each time but but the experience on the side is each time you go through it

Kathleen Shannon 17:20
it's also like i just imagined someone listening to this episode and be like what the hell is a method if they're anything like me because again i'm in the method and like i didn't even fully understand it i mean i'm joking that like four years in but really probably about a year in and then i was like oh so basically what enter you might have something to add to this but basically what i would say is if you are a creative and there is something that you really want to be doing and something that you really want to be known for write down what that is like write down what the deliverables are and then so that's the end is the deliverables and then work backwards so what is every single thing that the client goes through so if on one end you have your deliverables and on the front end you have them coming to your website it is literally everything in between that beginning and end should become your process and your method is that am i saying that right do you think

Tara Street 18:22
yeah absolutely in fact i use well yours is more literal people can understand that i use a metaphor the girl on the diving horse story that we'll get that in a minute but i would say that if you're sitting there thinking about having a process most people call it process or method and it's kind of freaking you out you know it's you probably already have one and it's mostly it's like the ingredients of what you always do and you take it for granted because you don't do it in a structured way so for some people it's just lining up your ingredients like you would ingredients on a countertop before you start cooking right and then other people line up their ingredients before they start cooking

Emily Thompson 19:04
not the way i cook that's how terrica

Unknown Speaker 19:11

Tara Street 19:13
other end of the spectrum you may be

Unknown Speaker 19:20
like that's how tara cooks

Tara Street 19:23
like a big nerd some of you may be nerding out with me and being like oh yes i want to process so bad or i have no val geisler is that guys or yes i'm talking to her as imagining her in my head actually and i think for some people that maybe they're going this is the word of wisdom the grain the grain of salt in your lineup of of ingredients is that don't sell your process too hard as much as i preach selling process people are still trying to buy the thing at the end i just need a web design i just need you to fix my life i Just need, right like this, whatever it is you're doing, you might be photographer, a designer, we say creatives, it's really shorthand for creative entrepreneur in many ways. I'm a lifestyle coach, a stylist, all, you know, all the people that we consider creative entrepreneurs. You know, like, you have a, you may not think you have a process you might be you might have a process, you may want a process. But whatever your situation you are on the spectrum, I would say, Don't rely too heavily on it being your selling tool route the front of the gate, you got to remember what you're selling people at the end, what they're looking for, what they're googling what they're trying to hire you for. And in fact, in our early days, we kind of snuck the process in, it was just the way we did work. And we were so confident that we didn't really talk about it too much, we just kind of took these steps. And it wasn't till after we had enough case studies to really prove how you're doing these steps over and over again, that people really sort of buying into the process, and they really got how great it was. But you just can't hit people over the head with it either. You kind of got to sneak up on it a little.

Kathleen Shannon 20:59
So I have an example of this actually, I just started working out with a new trainer yesterday. And he has a gym, that's very CrossFit style, but and I wouldn't say that he's anti CrossFit. But he's not about just going in and lifting as heavy as you can and just, you know, going crazy and hurting yourself or all the things that can happen. And, and so he was like, what I'm really trying to sell is just like a healthy lifestyle. And I'm like, Yeah, but whenever people are googling you and looking for you, they're looking for something like CrossFit. So I was telling him that kind of vibe that your gym has, which is kind of like the cool CrossFit vibe, as far as just kind of being a box and getting back to the basics. Sell them that. But then whenever they come into the gym, the way that you reassure and deliver is by offering the healthy alternative. So I think that that's kind of an example of what you're talking about. Because people aren't googling. I want to get a healthy alternative workout. They're like, I want to just go crazy. And then they think that they're gonna go in and go crazy with this really hard workout. And then it's like, oh, stretching is important. And here's why.

Unknown Speaker 22:13

Kathleen Shannon 22:16
Okay, so,

Unknown Speaker 22:17
Emily, do

Kathleen Shannon 22:18
you have any questions for Tara? Yeah, I

Emily Thompson 22:21
want to go back for a second to you quitting your job?

Kathleen Shannon 22:25
Because that is a hot topic, amongst our bosses

Emily Thompson 22:28
is well, and it's I think it's an easy one. Maybe I want to talk about, like the straw that broke the camel's back for you. Did I say that? Right. Did I say I said that one. Right, right. Because I thought about it first. I'm like,

Kathleen Shannon 22:45
you're as bad as I am. Like, Tara always jokes. She's like, is English your first?

Unknown Speaker 22:54
Because I'm always getting them wrong.

Emily Thompson 22:57
Right? Well, and honestly, I don't even think that's the right one. Because I feel like that usually insinuates like a bad thing that happens that makes you just like, stop. And what I mean is like, what was the thing that made you go you know what, this is the right thing for me like, was it? or What was it? What was the thing? Or was it a thing? Yeah. And like, how

Kathleen Shannon 23:15
scary is that you go from being a creative director, VP, Boss have an entire team really, I can say this kind of boss of the agency, like it was kind of like Tara was queen bee a little bit there. So what was it like going from that? What was the breaking point or the tipping point where you're like, Okay, working for myself is the right decision, and then to being the boss of your self?

Tara Street 23:40
Yeah, let me back up even a step further. Because I kinda want to speak a little bit to I'll get to the juicy stuff in a minute. But the people out there who are maybe just starting out within a team, or a studio or a firm, who haven't quite felt like they got a handle on it yet, like, so going back to feeling like a queen bee or feeling like I knew what I was doing there. There was a phase where I switched from just being an art director to feeling like I was a leader within that team. Like, I knew my stuff. I felt like a creative expert. I wasn't a boss on my own business, but I was a boss of what I knew of my stuff. I the respect of my peers, I had respect to my clients. I was a person you wanted in a meeting with you. So that felt really good, too. And I think part of that was embracing and owning, which is you guys talking about a lot. shifting from faking it to really owning my own style. No, I will never present as calmly and coolly as a creative director before me did talk about Don Draper, he was like the guy's guy admired and respected him on a pedestal like wow, if I could ever be that smooth and that wonderful at presenting myself or speaking to a group or coming up with these amazing concepts, and I just had to when I became creative director, so boss within a team, I really had to own I remember telling my boss Hey, listen, you the list of ways i'm going to rock it as a creative director thank you for which the by the way he offered me this position when i was one of the seven months pregnant with my first baby that our creative director laughed and i took that role and it freaked me out right kathleen i almost didn't take it

Kathleen Shannon 25:15
yeah like you came home i remember you calling dad and

Tara Street 25:18
like bawling i called dad bawling i think was 28 years old and he worked downtown he met me in the street because rush hour is so bad he couldn't get it it wasn't like he could get the car out of the garage so he met me in the middle of the street downtown it was in a movie and all he said was he shattered across i was standing kind of standing halfway standing out of my open car door in the street we're gonna make the creative director and he goes don't sell yourself short i okay just do it i'll do it okay and it was great it was at i had to learn how to be boss right i thought all that responsive this is making sense all that responsibility would ruin my life it was too much pressure i can never be as good as i thought i could you know be i really just had to own it you know what my presentation styles a little more savvy i might get a little more flustered i might be a little more funny or weird or offbeat than my career director before me but whenever people are gonna love it and they did you know and so i just had to own it and find my own style not only in how i spoke or led or guided people but also just in creative and copywriting

Kathleen Shannon 26:25
ways you actually have that thought like i'm just gonna own it like i might be you know whatever you're pulling out all those things there's like a amount of self awareness there

Tara Street 26:35
i did because i had a list oh you made a list i made horsehair the only way i can rationalize i will accept this new role it's not going to kill me here's why i'm just going to do it this way and this is the way i'll do it i just have to be okay with it of course i was still freaked out i mean but it helped me own it so fast forward to probably seven years later after owning this boss role it was now time for me to be my own boss which is something i never considered doing and so when it comes to the straw that broke the camel's back i would just say it was a mix of things so i'm a slow decision maker i am the opposite of kathleen kathleen is a hot spark quick decision maker and i like to mull things over for you know like a couple years so i'm only things over like why am i feeling stressed why am i unhappy and i think it was because when we work in an agency or a creative from our studio that's around you know seven to 20 people i would say there's definitely a lot of autonomy where you really do feel like boss of yourself which is probably trained me for everything i've done today but if you're not quite the boss the captain at the helm it there just becomes a time where you outgrow it and you either have to say i'm going to be a captain now or i'm just going to step in line and keep helping steer this ship that i'm not actually 100% invested in i was 100 invest 100% invested in my heart and my time but there's just something different about being boss on your own and i love both so i'm not necessary an advocate for quitting or not quitting i'm more of an advocate for just owning your creative expertise in whatever situation you are in being a boss and the team you're in or being a boss in your own business

Kathleen Shannon 28:17
hey bosses did you have a case of fomo

Emily Thompson 28:20
that stands for the fear of missing out

Kathleen Shannon 28:22
when you saw all the being boss magic go down for our being boss vacation in new orleans

Emily Thompson 28:28
if you're not friends because we are planning another boss vacation this spring in

Unknown Speaker 28:33
my family

Kathleen Shannon 28:36
so it was really hard to figure out what location to go to but we've never been to miami and the reason why we do these boss vacations is to cultivate our creative pack see different parts of the world get some face time with each other connect with each other and live the boss life so to learn more details about this boss vacation just go to love being boss calm slash miami

Emily Thompson 29:00
we hope to see you there

Kathleen Shannon 29:07
um okay so you talk a little bit about people feeling like an expert a creative expert whether they're inside the walls of an organization or company which we all like all three of us would never tell anyone to quit their job and we think that you can really rock it as a boss and be boss in an agency you can have a personal brand within an agency or a company um but either way talking about being a creative expert can you talk a little bit more about that because i feel like the word expert is really intimidating to so many of our clients and it really brings up these like frosty feelings whenever you start to throw that word around so let's talk about that a little bit

Tara Street 29:50
i know and i never even really thought about that until i did start hearing people you know not only being boss listeners but you know breaklines selling weird around the word expert and, and I get it, I guess I just think of it like a guide, or someone who just knows their stuff and it doesn't mean overly credentialed, or you have to have a PhD in something, although technically the term expert comes with that connotation, right. But I think it's more like a creative we even did for our clients will say, okay, just think of yourself as a guide, or even a specialist, maybe that has a surgeon, but like a specialist goes back to the girl on the diving horse. So this is Australia's Intel earlier where this idea of, you know, you go to the circus, or I imagine like a 1940s little Carnival that comes through town, right? And they've got the big top and they've got, you know, the strong man, they've got all that stuff going on. And then there's the girl on the diving horse, I think is probably a movie we saw, like in the 90s, or something. But anyway, so the girl on the diving horse, right, she climbs up the ladder on the rungs, shooting in so many emails about that movie, like I feel all of our Yeah, wild horses, wild hearts can't be can't be broken. Oh, anyway, did thinking about, like your competition, or the people who do everything for everyone, or even yourself, trying to be everything to everyone in a three ring circus and throwing it all in, right to make everyone happy. And to make sure you get hired and make sure you make money, you're thrown it all into the big top right, you're trying to do everything, a jack of all trades. Whereas we really coach and guide people to think of themselves as the girl on the diving horse, where a feet maybe not as many people, but still, some people are coming over to your little area, right and your bleachers, and they're sitting down to the girl on the diving horse. And that's you, you're going up the ladder and half the half the drama is going up the ladder. So those are the steps of your process, right? You're getting you're young, you're building anticipation, you're going up the rungs, whatever the steps that you're taking to deliver, that's you going up the ladder. And then you have the outfit I was think of that as like your personal brand, and you've got the horse, I was thinking the horse. Now this is where we get the comments because it's a horrible animal cruelty, your horse died off a diving board, they don't do that anymore. I don't think that anyone would ever romanticizing it. So the horse is like your tools, like you're a photographer, you're a writer, you're whatever, the horse is just the tool that you're the expert, you're the girl on the diving horse, and you're the one that's going to jump for your clients or for your audience, and you take the leap Hooray. And everyone remembers the girl on the daily horse, right? And then you do it again. And then you do it again. And every time you do it, it's like you just become more and more known for that. And some people may call that being niched or nished. And we don't push being niche or niche. We don't push being specialized, so hard that we don't let you break your rules, right. But it definitely is something to think about when you think about what do I want to be known for. And that's also another way of thinking of what kind of expert do I want to be, and just trusting that the more times you practice it and practice it and practice it, the better you get. But some people, they've already been practicing it for a long time. And now it's about owning it. So that's the other side of it, you may be transitioning into finally doing what you want to do, not just thinking of it as work, but as we're calling. And so how do you own that and not just be an order taker, to your clients, or jack of all trades will take on any project that comes along?

Kathleen Shannon 33:19
Okay, let's say you're the girl on the diving course. And you're like, Okay, but this is really cruel to horses. I'm tired of doing this my eyeballs hurt from smashing into the water, or whatever it is. I like

Tara Street 33:37
that girl went blind in that movie. Oh my god. That's why you just said this is based on a true story. She's not just a movie.

Unknown Speaker 33:45
Spoiler alert. From a movie from the 90s.

Kathleen Shannon 33:50
The girl goes blind. So let's say then you're like, I want to go see Cirque de Soleil. And you're like, I'm sick of this. Bullshit. I want to be in Cirque de Soleil. I want to be doing some cool. Like, I want to become a contortionist.

Unknown Speaker 34:07
You know, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 34:08
what? What is it? What does that look like?

Tara Street 34:13
Here's what you do. You decide, you know, I'm not leaping off the diving board anymore, right? Like, I'm not going to be. I'm just making this up photographer anymore. I want to do web design, or vice versa, right? So you go over to LA and you're like, I don't want to dive off the diving board anymore. I want to try something new. But I think if you practice being a specialist at something getting really good at something that when you move on to the next thing you already know you don't want to look like you already know that when I go to Cirque du Soleil I know that I don't want to be doing x y&z sweeping up the peanuts afterwards. I don't want to be you know, partnered with someone I want to be the solo act. I know that I don't want to be working with you. get whatever it is i'm trying to go with the metaphor but you know what you don't want and you know what it kind of concert to feel like to be an expert at something and so i think you hit the ground running that further ahead towards being an expert the new thing too i mean just like you and emily do the podcast right like you guys both knew what it felt like to be really great at what you guys were already doing in your respective businesses and so you that much more quickly got through the planning the figuring out and the fun experimenting and all the things you wanted to happen and not happen with the podcast and some surprises along the way but you were able to get there so much more quicker because i think you had that mindset with we want to be really good at this we want to be known for it

Kathleen Shannon 35:42
we're not going to just do everything i see so much in our businesses that people whenever they're wanting to transition what they're doing even myself whenever i went from wanting to just be an art director and designer to wanting to go get martha beck coaching training i didn't understand what it meant for my business and i didn't i remember you know i was like i'm not going to be a designer anymore i'm retiring and it feels like it or you know just really not understanding how the dots are connected and now in hindsight i can see really well how my design experience in art direction history and expertise blends in with the creative coaching and then that turned into the podcast and this really unique constellation of connecting the dots right and so i feel like we see a lot of creatives kind of wanting to disown their previous experience so part of the reason or part of the way that we got our name braid a lot of people think that it's because we're sisters and that we're braiding each other's hair whenever we were little which i think kara was i mean tara was like literally braiding my dreads about a year ago like i want to double french braid but that had nothing to do with our name so tara can you explain a little bit about our name and kind of that blend like not just blending the person with professional which people here is talking about all the time but also kind of where you've been and where you're going

Tara Street 37:14
yeah so okay well back to our name you know we were you know a week later with our business plan and our idea to start a business right you had to come up with a name and we often encourage our clients or ask them like why aren't you using your own name right because so many of the branding we do is personal branding or it's one person or solopreneur we didn't have that option cuz there's two of us unless we wanted to sound like a law firm a street and shannon so we knew we needed a name

Kathleen Shannon 37:45
and i was like no you know i might be getting a divorce or something

Emily Thompson 37:52
it is catholic

Unknown Speaker 37:54
never know

Tara Street 37:56
we needed a name and wanted to be good i wanted to be meaningful and all the things you want your name to be and i remember i was on we gone through a list together but i was on the front porch with then my boys were one of them was a toddler and we had sidewalk chalk like all the colors out on the front porch and we were coloring and i remember like kind of just doing like hatch lines of different colors and then thinking they're kind of weaving together and as like braid like that's a kind of a cool name because it's the idea of weaving together or i was looking at all these different chalks like it's all the things right and so it's almost opposite we always say like you need to narrow in but really you also need to blend all the things and yeah you need to discard the things that are no longer serving you but there's something about blending together where you've been where you going what do you want your purpose to be okay but what are you actually good at okay who is your dream client what's your style like what do you want to be known for what's your voice like how do you talk and your real words not your professional words all of these threads or pieces of chalk rolling around how do you weave them together into one brand and everything can't be equal you know there's always got to be some shiny threads in there that really stand out but but really just like you and i know we're lucky because there's two of us right or even just like you and me are like on the pockets there's two of you so in some ways it's easier to complement each other in this mix or this blend but when there's just one of you you still got to pull all those different aspects out of yourself you know who's the nerd to your rebel inside yourself introvert to your extrovert the logic to the emotion how much process if you're really into that can you push push a part of your brand without pushing away people who really just want you to help them right so it's constantly the blend of everything together the number one request we get from i think all the people that follow you guys and follow us they get this they get their mix so their blend is What makes them special? It's their magic power. And the problem is, it's also the same thing that gives them the most insecurity. So they feel scattered, or like they have too many ideas, or there's too much going on. Or why do I even want to go join Cirque du Soleil if I'm already diving off, like they also guilty that they have so many ideas, and it just comes with that mix of all the things going on. And the number one thing that people ask us, like, help me with this is, I need a clearer message. I just helped me, you know, help me clarify all these things that are going on my head, I just need a clear message I that I think every email I get, has that line in there in some form or fashion.

Kathleen Shannon 40:47
So um, so obviously, we help people clarify that message through our one on one work. Um, but then that one on one work really helped inform the ecourse that we created, which is a whole other topic, Emily, we need to do a whole episode on passive income. Because our ecourse has been a what, four years in the making?

Tara Street 41:14
Yeah, we again, we were we knew from the beginning, we wanted something like that. And so we did ecourses out of the gate. But then after practicing one on one for three or four years over and over and over and over and over this method, we are like rehaul. And we really created the core set. If we had to just hand it all over everything we know about how to get that clear message for yourself, what would that look like and that's and that was what we created.

Emily Thompson 41:43
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Kathleen Shannon 42:51
So one of the things I really liked that we included in this iteration of the ecourse are all the scripts. So there is an exercise in art ecourse that is kind of a script to help someone clarify their message or just explain what they do to their parents. Someone in the Facebook group the other day was like, do you do your guyses parents understand what you do that from like parents to networking to? Even your about me statement or your your Twitter bio. And there's a script that you have that helps people clarify their message. Do you want to can you share that?

Tara Street 43:29
Yeah, I did I, I pull it up, because I wanted to share an example. And this one's actually written more towards a designer. Because it's just easier to explain if you think about an actual role. But really, you could do it for any sort of creative entrepreneur explanation of what I do, right, we all feel equally scattered. So I'm gonna read the instructions on this script. It's not that complicated. It's pretty simple, but

Kathleen Shannon 43:56
but get out your pens, write it down.

Tara Street 43:59
Say you're talking to me, I was like, gonna get my pen, Okay, I'm gonna get my pen. Don't make this do this on ourselves, right? So share your vision. So this is kind of a hybrid of a positioning statement, which we get really into in the course and all the nuances of that, which is like what you do just in a few sentences. But this one's a little more aspirational and dreamy, which I thought would be fun. So it's more about not just talking about what you do, but sharing your vision for what you want to become. So imagine it's five years in the future, and you're creating the kind of work you want to be known for. And only working with dream clients. I would also add in the way you want to be working. So even more importantly, lately, I feel even more passionate about dream engagements beyond just dream clients, right? What does your brand and business vision sound and feel like? So about five years in the future, it's already happening. Emily Kaplan you can practice Like, imagine your head, eyes and swing, I put your head. I'm blank. So your name here I'm blank. And I'm a designer. I love designing, and then blank your specialty. So whatever it is, as a designer or lifestyle coach, or a stylist, or a web developer, or any of those things, I love designing, creating, guiding coaching, blank, your specialty. So tribes take a stab at what that specialty is, you can break your rule, you can't break it unless you write it down first. So I'm my name here, and I'm a designer, I love designing. My specialty is this for clients like and then describe your dream client there. Now this phrase, once you write it, it's kind of half outward facing like, you would say it to other people. But some of it you might keep to yourself, too. That's why I call it more like share your vision. So I love designing this specialty for clients like and my dream clients like this. And they love how i and this is where you fill in your approach. When we work together, they love how I blank when we work together. So this is not about how you have great customer service, or how you are really detail oriented, right, or how your approach is really unique. that's those are cop outs. This is more about how I, it's maybe even many steps like I first do this. And then I do that if you can just even boil it down to three steps when we work together, that are really the core of what you do for them. But at the end of the day, what they really get and this is me saying hey, you just can't sell them your process. But at the end of the day, what they really get under like really like what's a deeper deliverable? What they really get is your deeper deliverable for them. And deliverable is just another word for offering or the thing that you gave them and i and this can get a little more Whoo. Like, it could be a feeling that you deliver for them. If you can get really specific about it, because I'm more than just a designer, or coach or stylist or developer on a blank. And that's your creative expertise. I can't wait to try what's next for me, which is launching a blank and that's your next big thing you want to do. It doesn't hurt to say that lab, Kathleen's a testament to saying it out loud, and then it happens. I can't wait to try what's next me. We're just launching a podcast. And here we are. And here we are. It's hard work. But totally worth it. Because as I create for others, I'll also be creating my dream blank your dream for myself along the way. So it's hard work but totally worth it. Because as I create for others also be creating. And then your drink goes here. Is that location independence? Is it working from home and my family is it feeling like a creative expert with a method that'd be mine, for myself along the way. And so it really is a mix of kind of owning what you've already done or starting to do. Plus that other aspiration. And sometimes you'll find that the things you thought you couldn't really weave into your brand because they found too pie in the sky or future for future thinking. Actually, when you edit it all together, what you're doing now It kind of sounds pretty natural. And it kind of lets people know what you want to be hired for. And it kind of creates what it is you're wanting to do.

So that's a you know, that's a kind of a tall order thing, fill that out because there's a lot of work that goes into figuring out those blanks. So there's a big blank, your specialty, your dream clients, what is my approach? What is my deeper deliverable? How am I crave expert? What's my next big thing? What's my dream? Like? All of those can be hard for different reasons for different people. So that's why we have so many other exercises too, that we do. But I was gonna say you can't do this yourself, right? Like help, I need a clear message. Right? It's really just reflecting back at yourself all the things you're doing and honing that in so you don't have to hire someone one on one. You don't have to take a course you don't have to be in a program. I mean, it helps. I mean, we don't mind if you take it right. If you're doing it yourself, basically, I think all it takes is one devoting the time to do it to the Kathleen ism giving yourself permission. I read this on my notes by the way, giving yourself permission to just get all those words and ideas on paper, the big picture stuff and the small nuances all your magic Little Mix and blends. And then see checking with your gut a lot and maybe even taking some time between writing it all down to then checking in with your gut and saying is this how I really talk? Because even when people start writing down pen A paper in a journal under an apple tree, you can still find yourself slipping into this language that isn't really how you talk and ask, Is this what I'm best at? Am I over explaining or over proving myself here? Am I forcing a style or tone that I think is in vogue or popular people like me for? Am I be a people pleaser? Or am I sticking to my point of view, since the weekend I like tough love. You shouldn't be tough love on yourself. And then D step back this last step, step back, see what you can organize and refine and hone and squish into that clear message. With visuals, that's our other secret Genie got a pair your message of visuals. And keep that blend of emotion and logic, don't completely edit out or silence on one side of yourself or the other. You know, we all need that. left brain right brain. We say Captain Kirk, you know, Mr. Spock, for Catalina myself,

Unknown Speaker 50:51
we all need that.

Kathleen Shannon 50:53
And you know, you and I are able to kind of outward facing be that be that. Like I'm kind of the crazy creative and even in my marriage, it's that way too. And then I've got my, you know, methodical sister and my methodical husband. But the truth is, is that we're all both Absolutely, and everyone has a blend like that.

Emily Thompson 51:15
Well, and even like in, for example, in my relationship with David, I'm the crazy creative, and he's the super methodical one. But I almost feel like in the podcast, you're the crazy. And I'm the super methodical one. So like, I mean, just another example of depending on the situation, you can morph and change between the two, I like that you that you mentioned this idea of you have to blend the two sides of yourself and put both forward. Because if you, if you block out one, you kind of look like a crazy person.

Kathleen Shannon 51:48
Yeah. Or you sound like a robot, you know, like a jargony robot. So I also want to talk about when it comes to the blend and your brand, and all of that a big piece of it. And the piece that I'm really passionate about is sharing it your brand, especially your personal brand, it cannot live or exist in a vacuum. And, and even you know, I'm constantly reading and evolving and learning. And after reading Big Magic, I was like, Oh my gosh, I've been telling everyone to narrow and narrow in. And now I'm like, Oh my gosh, I just want to expand out and tell everyone I was wrong and just be creative. But that's not true either. So this is where I think tools like blogging, and podcasting and periscoping are really great places to start trying on a voice to start trying on a different style. And you can just slowly evolve. So one of the things that we say over and over as it should just as you evolve your brand, it should just feel like the next chapter. And sometimes it might even feel like the next book. And then people are like, oh, whoa, I'll use Elizabeth Gilbert as an example. She wrote, Eat, Pray, Love. And now she's writing a book on creativity and fear, you know, like, you would think that those seem like, quite a departure from each other. But then in her own, you know, her own brain and her own blend, it all makes sense. So again, I just think that sharing it and being okay with sharing as you go, you don't have to have it all figured out quite yet. But that's what's going to help you really hash out your creative, at least for me, this is how it's been, I've been able to hash out my creative expertise, in real time, with everyone watching me while I'm doing it, right. And we even did a post, the, what you share or what you write, it doesn't have to be writing. But that's my tool, what you write shapes, in many ways, what you become.

Tara Street 53:47
So when sometimes, experiences become before, what you're writing, and sometimes what you're writing kind of shapes the next thing that you deliver. And I think also talking to people who are starting their businesses from the sales. Some of us, I think you guys just did an episode on this, I haven't come out yet maybe. But when you're working one on one with clients, but you really have a vision for a product or a program, that sort of a thing. You know, the one on ones often shape that's you working one on one with your clients, if your service base shapes the patterns in the things that you see that then that's what you're sharing in your program or your product is it's kind of interesting because it's like a domino effect, right? And then it kind of circles back around again. And then that shapes maybe you going back and doing a one on one or shapes the next post you write on the next podcast. So it's just a circle of just continuing to. It's not like you're just documenting what you did. You're actually putting like, your intentions what you want to do next out there in many ways,

Kathleen Shannon 54:49
but then I would say like, okay, so right now, this is now just as having a conversation. Okay, now let's go. I mean, we're still recording but like, I'm experimenting with periscope right now. Because I was like, I want a YouTube channel, it was something that Emily and I had talked about for being boss, and then it didn't quite work out anyway, it's still in our plans. But I was like, You know what, in the meantime, I'm going to Periscope, it's a really easy non pressure way to explore finding what my voice might be like if I were to have a more polished YouTube channel. And I think now that I know that the stuff that we share can shape who we become. There's almost now this like, added meta pressure, knowing that I'm on Periscope, but also be excited that something could come from that, that I don't even know what it is yet. Right? So there is still plenty of room. No matter how methodical or process driven you are, there's room for experimentation, you know, even Tara in our business. I don't know if a lot of people know this, but braid creative owns braid creative and indicia biography together own being boss. So it's our companies that own this podcast, you know, and so even that this podcast is an experiment for all of us. Right? And then there might be more experiments that we tried down the road, but it is looking at how does this fit in the next chapter of our book?

Tara Street 56:18
Absolutely. And also, when Kathleen says, I want to try experiment. You say yeah,

Unknown Speaker 56:26
do it.

Emily Thompson 56:31
You don't know where you're gonna end up.

Unknown Speaker 56:33
Try me.

Kathleen Shannon 56:34
Yeah. Emily told me that you sent her an email saying I was a little bird and not crushed me.

Unknown Speaker 56:40
I did I did that.

Unknown Speaker 56:44
Emily? No, I'm just kidding.

Emily Thompson 56:47
It's like, we're just gonna be careful not to not distinguish the birdie.

Tara Street 56:51
Well, Emily, and I don't get to see each other a lot these days unless we're working on a client together. And so it's, you know, everything happens so fast with all of us, right? And so it was fun for Emily to shot the other day and say, Hey, we just cool seeing your face. I think we're talking about something boss visioning. And I was like, yeah, you know, it's just, it's actually afraid I got from my creative director back in the day, the guy said, was the Don Draper who was so eloquent and could say everything so beautifully. And he always said, Don't squash the bird. And when he would say that what he was talking about was a concept. So you're coming up with your next creative idea. But you haven't quite figured out the concept like, what's it gonna look like? What's the, you know, the fear of every designer, because it's gonna be my last great idea. But every designer everyone. And so if you have that bird kind of flutter on your hand, this idea? How do you hold on to that concept that you think you figured out without squashing it and killing it? Right by overthinking it? and holding it too hard, right? And so then I think I've morphed that into then also, how do you do these experiments? Or have a partner like halfling? Or have a Kathleen within yourself? where they're going to be experimenting while you're doing method methodology? And how do you let those experiments and your own business flutter and kind of, you know, about to take flight, you're still holding it in your hand because you're not quite ready and without killing it, you know, and squashing it and keeping it from doing what's next. It sounds like that hokey phrase, like if you love something, set it free, and it'll fly back. But it can be that way with ideas, right? And also with your next business endeavor or your next launch. So hold on to the bar, but don't squash it.

Emily Thompson 58:31
Yeah, I kinda feel like that's like plight of the creative in humans in general period. But like, especially people who identify themselves as being creative, it's, is this idea of, of wanting to like, hold on and nourish what you have, but expand and explore at the same time. It's can being just, it's a journey to hold on to that bird, not squash it.

Kathleen Shannon 58:56
And like a struggle of wanting to feel security and comfort and I think all of us want that, but then to also feel spontaneous and like you're all in adventure and living the dream and

Tara Street 59:07
because it's addicting like that first you guys out there who are maybe doing this the first time or taking a leap for the first time or just started like, it sounds so hokey, it's like people talking to someone with a newborn. Enjoy it. It goes so fast, but it's so exciting and thrilling. And then once you get that security, it's like, okay, yeah, I got this going on. I got this bird in this cage. And it sing is singing. And I'm loving it, but like, what is the next exciting thing going to fly through the window? Right? Well, and

Emily Thompson 59:38
then the bird stop singing sometimes. Or another bird out there, start seeing more beautifully, like we can take this bird metaphor. Oh

Unknown Speaker 59:46
my gosh. But like, I mean,

Emily Thompson 59:48
it's a real thing. And I think like, just like your brain that back to the expertise thing, like, we all have our birds,

Kathleen Shannon 59:57
or like, okay, so we actually used to have this bird And we had a couple of ferrets room together

Unknown Speaker 1:00:05
one day

Emily Thompson 1:00:06
and the bird gets eaten bird.

Kathleen Shannon 1:00:09
It's not funny. I'm not trying to laugh about it. But don't keep

Tara Street 1:00:12
ferrets in your house.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:14
What's the lesson? Oh, God,

Unknown Speaker 1:00:15

Unknown Speaker 1:00:16

Unknown Speaker 1:00:17
yeah. Um, but

Kathleen Shannon 1:00:19
no, I think that's a really good point. And I actually really am liking this bird metaphor and holding the bird in the hand situation. Because I think that sometimes turn it You and I, whenever we're having our, like road trip conversations. Sometimes just having the idea and acknowledging it and talking about it is good enough. And then we know, okay, it's in the universe, it will manifest itself, you know, maybe in three months, maybe in six months, maybe in a year, or maybe just talking about the idea, like a YouTube channel, for example, is all we need to feel satisfied by the idea and then it's doesn't happen and that's okay, too. Or what I find in the case of creative entrepreneurs is, hey, maybe sell that idea or give that idea away to someone else who might be able to do it and do it better than you. So there's, there's enough there's a lot. There's a lot of birds.

Emily Thompson 1:01:24
There's a lot of birds. I can't wait to write the title for this episode. It's gonna be burdens, but a

Unknown Speaker 1:01:29
lot of bird watch.

Emily Thompson 1:01:32
Don't squash the bird with birds. It's

Unknown Speaker 1:01:34
one of my like,

Unknown Speaker 1:01:36
scary movies. You know, let's

Unknown Speaker 1:01:39
talk about that. What are you watching right

Unknown Speaker 1:01:41

Kathleen Shannon 1:01:43
Well, I thought to interrupt you real quick and let our listeners know that. Um, one of my favorite things about you is that you have such good taste in shows and movies and books. But like, you also know what I like so you'll read something, you'll love it, but you're like you won't like it, Kathleen, so just don't even don't I'll just tell you what it's about. And I'm like, Oh, it's like just as good hearing it from you. Okay, but anyway, so I'm just vouching that you have really good taste in shows and books and all that. So what are you watching right now?

Unknown Speaker 1:02:18
Well, I

Tara Street 1:02:19
have been watching some this sounds so pretentious and not usually I would watch but like watching Woody Allen movies lately. I just haven't watched it on movies lately, but I haven't turned down way low. Because I'm actually watching them for like style inspiration because everyone a woody allen movie looks like they just like random brush their hair. Like in that kind of early 80s way where if you have curly hair like us growing up let us run your brush to your hair and you said for the hair and that was like

Kathleen Shannon 1:02:50
awesome. I'll never forget watching Urban Cowboy with you know what is it sissy and you're like, and she just precious just she just brushes her hair.

Tara Street 1:03:00
Look at that hair. brushed that hair. There was no like,

Unknown Speaker 1:03:05
there were no Sarah Jessica Parker curls serums or diffuser,

Tara Street 1:03:10
you just brush that curly hair. Anyway.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:14
I love watching you. I

Tara Street 1:03:15
love watching movies for that kind of thing. Usually it's john whew, I'm usually usually watching john Hughes movies, not for the teenage movies as much that we're all used to but I got to watch home alone like 15 times over Christmas break and you know, I've said everyone's it was Anderson as the art director of the the movie tell his movies by the color palette and the lighting. I felt the same way about john Hughes movies. But I just saw The Revenant like two years ago with our dad, so I think I love seeing you know, we love taking our dad to see Quentin Tarantino movies are more intense movies. So we're going to do The Hateful Eight, but we saw The Revenant. And can I tell you this is not a spoiler Everyone knows that leighann spoiler alert that Leonardo DiCaprio is basically like, mauled by a bear in this movie. And the whole movie is like in the frozen, beautiful wilderness. And everything after that I had a rough day after that. everything after that seems so easy, because I was not a being mauled by a bear or be like dragging my body through the frozen wilderness. I just had to help my kid turning up late science fair project, or, you know, think about what I wasn't talking about today. Or, you know, so that was a really intense movie that gave me a lot of context lately, at least not being mauled by a bear. Okay,

Kathleen Shannon 1:04:30
so probably around the time that you were eight months pregnant and being offered creative director at your agency. Our dad also took us to go see the movie hostel, yes. where basically tourists are being tortured by Rich people that are like paying to torture them.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:49
Right? Hi, I'm

Kathleen Shannon 1:04:50
like, and it's funny because I feel like if you looked at us like you would not expect this but I'm curled up in a ball trying not to throw up Do you like hands over my eyes? I just an over my ears. I just cannot handle it. And I look over tears like eight months pregnant and like chowing down on her popcorn and she looks at her and she like smiles and she's like, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:15
I love money.

Tara Street 1:05:17
I love me or movie, I think was funny. It was just like having a happy place. I got my dad on one side. I got my sister on the other. I got like, horror movie.

Kathleen Shannon 1:05:28
We were so whenever we were in New Orleans for being Boss, I don't know if I told you this Emily, we were watching American Horror Story until like, wind down in the evening.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:37
American worth three hotel

Kathleen Shannon 1:05:39
hotels to wind down hotel Hotel in New Orleans. And in American Horror Story hotel. Sorry for the spoilers. There's a guy basically torturing people and like, holding them up alive in walls, and I just like, throwing acid on like this really awful stuff. And then

Emily Thompson 1:06:00
in tears just

Unknown Speaker 1:06:01
Yeah, she's like falling asleep.

Kathleen Shannon 1:06:03
And we turn off the TV turn off the lights. were laying there for about a minute. And I was like, I'm scared in tears. Like what are you scared of is just silly. It's funny. It's silly.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:17
It was scary. I think it was campy.

Tara Street 1:06:22
It can't be it's stylish. Whatever the people out there who I get they get it. But I do love me some movies and shows don't I?

Unknown Speaker 1:06:30
Um, what are you reading right now?

Tara Street 1:06:36
I am reading. Oh, no. Is it Jenny? Greer. She is a famous for it's on the Kindles? I don't look at the cover. Right. But I think it's called something like this. I have to say this now this will be in the show notes. They probably won't. But

Unknown Speaker 1:06:51
no, it will.

Tara Street 1:06:52
Well, Judy Greer name is Judy Greer. Please forgive me. This is the whole point that doesn't her whole point of her book is that she's a famous like supporting co star. You know, the second use are like, she was a job. She's like, thin redhead. She's like a job breaker and 13 going on. 30 should always play the friend. Yeah, yeah. Right. And she kind of she just kind of the quirkiness about her. And so I'm reading her book about herself and like kind of growing up like we did in the Midwest. And, you know, just, I mean, I

Unknown Speaker 1:07:21
love a memoir.

Tara Street 1:07:22
I know you do. That's why I was I, why I'm really reading it, though, to distract myself, because I'm really upset that Game of Thrones is starting up before the new novel comes out. And you guys know, I've read all the novels twice. So it's almost I can't read any other fiction. And I just, I'm kind of in a bind there. Are you not going to watch it until the book I told my husband, I wasn't going to watch it. And that kind of distressed him because he won't have anyone to watch it with. And he said the HBO said that the show wasn't going to follow along with the books, but I know that they know enough about how those books are going to end up that they can't veer that far off the path, right? I mean, they can't just completely screwed up. So I feel like I am so like, in tune

Unknown Speaker 1:08:11
with like, what I

Tara Street 1:08:13
think is gonna happen, that I'll just be able to tell what the first episode like it'll be all ruined. And I'm more loyal to the books and the show. So yeah, that's my current you guys can tell this is why I really have a method why I really have a method for our business day one was so that we weren't working late so that we weren't working during primetime working on the weekend, that's the straw right? So that we can go home and watch Game of Thrones right out to you and just know that the work will be there tomorrow and the good to be done will be there tomorrow and that I can still watch either Woody Allen or people being tortured in a hospital

Unknown Speaker 1:09:00
on watching Making a Murderer right now.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:03
Tell me about it

Kathleen Shannon 1:09:04
on my list documentary and then Emily texted me yesterday and she's like, okay, what's what?

Emily Thompson 1:09:09
So So yeah, about that Mikey texted me out of nowhere the other day and he goes ask your friend Kathleen what she thinks of making a murder in one sentence.

Kathleen Shannon 1:09:19
Oh, that was from Mikey Why didn't Yeah.

Emily Thompson 1:09:22
Well, because then I figured you'd get all flowery. I needed to keep it to the point.

Kathleen Shannon 1:09:30
I thought you were asking because like you were trying to decide whether or not you were going to watch it.

Emily Thompson 1:09:37
Well, I mean, it certainly influenced that

Kathleen Shannon 1:09:39
okay, well I'm watching it and then I will respond to you again to send to Mikey and knowing

Unknown Speaker 1:09:44
that Mikey one one sentence one sentence to the point.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:50

Unknown Speaker 1:09:51
What are you watching?

Kathleen Shannon 1:09:54
And he doesn't really watch shows.

Emily Thompson 1:09:56
I don't watch a ton of TV David Knight weekly. watch the profit and shark tank because okay nerds um but then i i've also been watching i've been catching up on the fourth season of continuum

Unknown Speaker 1:10:09
oh that sci fi stuff

Emily Thompson 1:10:13
it is it's super sci fi and it's one that i just like found on netflix a couple of years ago and just like watch the season because it was in the first season i was like oh that's good and now every time a season comes out like i don't watch it on tv it's just when it comes out i'll netflix binge for like a week but i've been watching that this week because i saw their new season came out and i got excited

Tara Street 1:10:32
i start watching mr robot this week you guys heard that i know that emily if it won like best drama the golden gloves that was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back i finally put press play oh my you're gonna have all lined up like my ingredients i have all my shows lined up and it's really i think you'll really like it but hackers

Unknown Speaker 1:10:54
and the main guys

Unknown Speaker 1:10:56
we know but there's also that other hackers show they almost sponsored the podcast no

Tara Street 1:11:00
it's not that one

Unknown Speaker 1:11:02
yeah it is

Kathleen Shannon 1:11:04
we will not name it if they did not sponsor the podcast

Unknown Speaker 1:11:07
it is no

Tara Street 1:11:10
it's not that one it's mr robot on usa

Unknown Speaker 1:11:13

Tara Street 1:11:15
i know that's weird but they have sorry usa you know they have their little app on the apple tv or whatever you know it's fine you can log in and get usa and

Unknown Speaker 1:11:26
they curse

Kathleen Shannon 1:11:27
and that would be on cable so i use my parents account to still log in that's like the only thing that still you cannot an adult

Tara Street 1:11:37
you can still use their account to also steal i think a log that's a nicer way of saying log in

Kathleen Shannon 1:11:45
like we own businesses we buy our own fonts we buy rental you still send

Emily Thompson 1:11:52
into your parents cable account i love that

Tara Street 1:11:58
when someone that has someone let my kitten into this room

Kathleen Shannon 1:12:03
i guess that means it's time to go by him to go tell us where we can find out more about your ecourse

Unknown Speaker 1:12:17
our ecourse

Tara Street 1:12:19
you can go to bray creative comm forward slash course but it's also a big yellow button the big giant picture because we love sharing our ecourse and so it's also a great way to learn about what it might be like to work with us but really we love our ecourse because it's affordable and it's a nice way for people to dive into you like doing that script and then man it's like diving into a whole other looking glass of those kinds of exercises for yourself and i really love i really love having been able to create that for people so anyway you go to breakthrough calm there's the braid branding method ecourse for creative entrepreneurs

Kathleen Shannon 1:13:00
and we have a facebook group for our ecourse students it's not as active as being past facebook group but there's an equal our facebook group and we also have quarterly masterclasses where we're hopping on a kind of feels almost like a podcast where we're talking about different chapters in our e course and then we also just started what we're calling a book club to help our students be more accountable and connect with each other and talk about their insights in a more casual way so we've been experimenting with that and but we continue to kind of try and figure out ways to connect and engage with our e commerce students but again i think it's just a really great place to start especially if you're interested in clarifying your own brand messaging looking at your personal brand your dream customer all the different ingredients that make up your brand so yeah i'm proud i'm proud of it

Unknown Speaker 1:13:56
oh man i am

Emily Thompson 1:13:56
i'm proud of it and i didn't even

Tara Street 1:13:59
well i will say that you know a lot of us we're creating content all the time and you guys out there when you're creating content some of you may have the same thing i do it's like a vulnerability hangover like bernie brown say but it's more like you cringe look at your work again once you put out in the world and i thought when we launched that that ecourse is robust it is a robust ecourse that i would look back and cringe but nope felt really awesome like i felt like we realized it kathleen 100% who you are and 100% feeling like we were sharing some really great creative guidance full circle

Kathleen Shannon 1:14:35
all right well thanks guys we'll have a lot of links to everything in our show notes to the work boss i don't think that's really how we end

Tara Street 1:14:46
i don't watch the bird don't squash the bird you don't squash that it's easier than getting mauled by a bear

Unknown Speaker 1:14:54
if you take anything away from this episode

Unknown Speaker 1:14:57
these are today's

Kathleen Shannon 1:14:59
the moral of the story is what you're doing is not as hard even when leonardo dicaprio as an actor had

Unknown Speaker 1:15:07
probably had

Unknown Speaker 1:15:09
to film that movie thank you for

Kathleen Shannon 1:15:12
listening to being boss find show notes for this episode at love being boss calm listen to past episodes and subscribe to new episodes on our website on itunes soundcloud

Unknown Speaker 1:15:23
or stitcher

Emily Thompson 1:15:25
did you like this episode head on over to our facebook group by searching being boss on facebook and join in on the conversation with other bosses or share it with their friends do the work be boss i will see you next week

Unknown Speaker 1:15:57
the red button in the middle

Unknown Speaker 1:15:59
yeah it's happening

Kathleen Shannon 1:16:00
okay so now we have to do a little team building exercise

Unknown Speaker 1:16:05

Unknown Speaker 1:16:06
yeah so behind the curtain

Unknown Speaker 1:16:08
yeah right i love it

Kathleen Shannon 1:16:13
so i'm going to say one emily is going to say to tara is going to say three and we're going to keep going around in a circle until i get to seven

Unknown Speaker 1:16:26
so professional

Unknown Speaker 1:16:28
that sounds too hard

Kathleen Shannon 1:16:32
i so curious to see how that's a good down tara

Unknown Speaker 1:16:35
i know this is this is like a whole other level of fine

Unknown Speaker 1:16:39
okay 1234567

Tara Street 1:16:48
yay i get the lift be number six

Unknown Speaker 1:16:54
thanks guys

Unknown Speaker 1:17:02
okay i'm so glad you're here

Emily Thompson 1:17:07
i need to get my little cave out

Kathleen Shannon 1:17:08
i need yeah go get it i need to have it right here hold

Unknown Speaker 1:17:13
on get my freshbooks thing open

Kathleen Shannon 1:17:16
we're not usually like this tara it's just because

Unknown Speaker 1:17:19
i like it

Kathleen Shannon 1:17:20
it's just because we can i'm gonna go

Unknown Speaker 1:17:23
oh my god i just i'm sorry okay me too

Unknown Speaker 1:17:31
what you guys