Episode 62 // Partnering Up: Roles and Communication

March 8, 2016

Today we’re talking though some of that hard conversations that go into partnering up. This is something that we’ve had to do a lot behind the scenes here at Being Boss, so we thought we’d get really open and vulnerable about how to partner up in your business and lay out all the legal aspects, defining roles, and answering the “what-ifs.”

Learn More about the Topics Discussed in this Episode
This Episode Brought to You By:
"In business you want to partner with someone you don't mind being in the trenches with."
- Kathleen Shannon

Discussed in this Episode

  • How our partnership formed
  • Comparing working style and working ethic
  • Legal aspects of partnering up
  • Splitting profits
  • Getting lawyers
  • Defining roles within the partnership
  • Noncompete clauses
  • Taking on sponsors
  • Intellectual property
  • What happens if one of the partners wants out
  • Having hard conversations
  • Delegating the work
  • Being able to ping-pong and try your hand at what your partner does best


More from Kathleen

Braid Creative

More from Emily

Almanac Supply Co.


Emily Thompson 0:06
Hello, and welcome to being boss, Episode Number 62. Brought to you by fresh books cloud accounting.

Kathleen Shannon 0:13
Today, we are talking all about partnering up and I feel like we've done an episode on this before. But since then we've had a lot more happen in our own business with each other. And it's kind of like the rubber meets the road whenever you have serious things to discuss, like, what happens if one of us dies.

Emily Thompson 0:33
So we're gonna get it up a notch,

Kathleen Shannon 0:35
right? So I really wanted this episode and I don't know if you're down and then you but I really wanted to kind of have a check in with you. And almost record one of our planning slash, you know, strategy meetings on air.

Unknown Speaker 0:54
Wouldn't you think I'm down,

Emily Thompson 0:55
let's go.

Kathleen Shannon 0:57
Get your business together. Get yourself into what you do and see it

Emily Thompson 1:02
through. Being bosses hard. Lending work in life is messy. Making a dream job of your own isn't easy,

Kathleen Shannon 1:09
but getting paid for it, becoming known for it. And finding purpose in it is so doable

Emily Thompson 1:16
if you do the work.

Kathleen Shannon 1:18
being bossed is a podcast for creative entrepreneurs. Brought to you by Emily Thompson and Kathleen Shannon. Check out our archives at love being boss calm. freshbooks is the easy to use invoicing software designed to help creative entrepreneurs get organized, save time invoicing and get paid faster. A lot of people are really curious about freshbooks. And if you've never used an accounting software before freshbooks makes it so easy. So I want to spend just a minute talking about setting up fresh books, literally, you're going to go in and set up an account. And one of the first things that you'll do is enter in a client and you'll enter in an estimate for the client or you can start tracking your time to a project. And then it's so easy to send out an invoice with your logo on it, it's super professional, your client can then pay you directly through that email link. Or they can cut you a check and submit in the mail. It's just really, really super easy. And so if you're feeling intimidated by having an accounting software and that's been keeping you from being boss, don't let it stop you just go sign up. Try a free trial today by going to freshbooks comm slash being boss and enter being boss in the How did you hear about us section you will not regret it.

Unknown Speaker 2:38

Kathleen Shannon 2:40
first off, I mean, let's do a little bit of rewind, because for those of you who have not listened to the other partnering episode, I think that whenever it comes to partnering up it's important to kind of court who you want to go into business with it's a lot like a marriage. So you're going to date first, you're going to see if you like each other to second base get to second base before you go all the way. So I am obviously business partners with my sister and Okay, so actually this really came up because our friends Jenny and Sophie have planted marketing or is it primed.

Unknown Speaker 3:18
I was crammed now I don't know.

Kathleen Shannon 3:21
I only slept plan because Sophie is British and she has a very proper prim and proper accent.

Emily Thompson 3:27
I they're adorable. They are prim and prime. So either way,

Kathleen Shannon 3:31
shout out to Jenny and Sophie, but they have both asked us multiple times how we handle partnerships. And I feel like we've always kind of like skirted the question because we were like, I don't know, like we just kind of have conversations and kind of doggy paddle through the shallow in together. But we've definitely gotten to areas where we've been in the deep end, and we've had to discuss some serious things. And I don't think it's the end of serious discussions for us. So, um, we're going to be talking about that kind of stuff today. But first, we need to rewind a little bit and talk about finding a good partner. So Emily, how would you say that like you and I chose to partner with each other?

Emily Thompson 4:14
I think I think we just courted each other for so long and like really just become friends that like we could have just stayed like once a month Skype buddies. But partnering up on something was kind of like taking it to the next level. Like that was like getting engaged.

Kathleen Shannon 4:36
Was my promise ring.

Emily Thompson 4:38
I know right? Well, who says you can't want to not me?

Kathleen Shannon 4:42
I'm the girl in this release.

Unknown Speaker 4:47
That I don't want

Unknown Speaker 4:49
to say that girl.

Kathleen Shannon 4:55
Yeah, maybe we should leave it in if I'm gonna be like, this is a real conversation. This isn't the kind of stuff we say.

Emily Thompson 5:02
Right? It's fine. Um, so what are we saying I

Unknown Speaker 5:06
got lost?

Emily Thompson 5:08
Oh, so no, I think, um, I think for us, it was just the next step in our relationship. If we, we could have stayed once a month Skype buddies, but I don't know designed to partner on a project. And at that time, it wasn't like a business. Like it was just like business was even the next step after starting a project together, I think it was just how we took it to the next level.

Kathleen Shannon 5:30
Okay, so I also want to mention here, and point out that we started being boss as a project. And but even before that, we had started working together professionally, because you had hired us, we had hired you. So we had worked together in like a client type of relationship. And then we started sharing some of our own clients. So we really started to get a feel for each other's working style, which I think was really helpful whenever it comes to partnering up,

Emily Thompson 5:59
yeah, working style, but also work ethic. Like, I think that's probably one of the biggest pieces is, is once you work with someone, like we had worked with each other, you're right, like as clients of each other's but also in sharing clients and, and sort of doing these projects together, where we were both working with clients, we both got to see like, what each other's work ethic was like, like, is this going to be someone that I actually want to work with, and that I'm going to depend on in terms of work and, and doing something with you. So yes, working style, but also work ethic is very important.

Kathleen Shannon 6:36
So I think that whenever people think about partnering up there, I think a lot of times, they're really looking for a magic bullet. And I would discourage against that, because nobody is a magic bullet in your business. There's no one that is going to come in and figure it out for you. So really, even though kind of like I feel like I can rely on you, Emily for a lot of things to figure things out for me and Tara. But really more important than that is really just someone that you kind of want to do business with, like, you're just like a marriage, you want to marry someone that you want to do life with. While in business, you want to partner up with someone that you don't mind being in the trenches with. So that's first and foremost, go back and listen to that episode on partnering up, because I feel like we cover a lot of stuff there. I'm gonna go ahead and move on. Because I think a lot of people, whenever they think about partnering up, they immediately jumped to the legal side of things. And you and I didn't legally start anything together until quite recently. And I feel like maybe on our last episode, we have just established an LLC, right? Yeah, I think so. And so the next step in our business, which is now what a year is being boss, a little over a year old, okay. So this as a project is a little bit over a year old as an official entity, it is a little over six months old. So it took us six months just to file an LLC. And basically it was because we started making money, and it was all going into indie shop biographies bank account. And we needed to figure out a way to just really better traffic, the money, David was so stressed

Emily Thompson 8:12
out, was so stressed and needed to be in its own place.

Kathleen Shannon 8:16
So it just kind of kept things a little bit more clean. But it's still, in some ways feels like a project that is being split between braid creative, and indicia typography, if that makes sense. But it was just the project that started to warrant its own bank account. Okay, so just recently, we decided to go ahead and get an operating agreement in place. And this is important because now we're making enough money. It's the amount of money that could ruin a friendship or ruin a partnership, if we don't talk about it. You know what I mean?

Emily Thompson 8:49
Yeah, definitely well, and not even not even, like ruin a friendship in terms of like, I'm mad at you because I want my half the money but like, things could happen. Like just in general. Like it we're getting legit enough that there are lots of moving parts. And you know, what happens if I don't know what what what happens if has pretty much been the sentence of the weak terms of this operating agreement? Because Yeah, it is we were doing enough things. We're making enough money we're making enough of an impact we're reaching enough people that we just needed to get all of our ducks in a row and really make sure that that legally everything was just situated so that we can move forward without this looming without looming what ifs like we talked about what all the what ifs are and came up with an operating agreement to answer hopefully all of them definitely a lot of them.

Kathleen Shannon 9:44
But it took some serious thinking so

Emily Thompson 9:47

Kathleen Shannon 9:50
So here's how it went down. Um, originally Emily and I thought kind of approach being boss as a raid creative and indeed typography probably so so the you guys know behind the scenes whenever we make money it goes into being boss and then that money is paid out to braid creative and indicia biography emily splits her indie income with david and i split my braid income with my sister tara who's my business partner there so really the being boss income is being split four ways between between four individuals in two entity right

Emily Thompson 10:28
and that's also after we pay for our teams to do the work that they do and then all like the subscriptions and things that oh right that's make all the things go yeah yeah so that's

Kathleen Shannon 10:40
just profit so to even figure out the money situation in the shop autography and braid creative decided to hire the same cpa to handle all of our taxes even though our businesses are totally separate just so that she could kind of understand how being boss fits in the picture as as kind of this umbrella entity now that being boss owns raid and indie but it was just confusing because she was then thinking of being boss as like a third business whenever really it's just the project that gives braden india a lot of money

Emily Thompson 11:17
it's very confusing guy

Kathleen Shannon 11:20
this is the kind of stuff that is confusing to talk about and maybe not everyone would have the same circumstances whenever we're going into a partnership but i want to talk a little bit about some other questions that we really had to think hard about

Emily Thompson 11:33

Kathleen Shannon 11:34
and one of them was how will ownership be divided who owns what percentage of being boss so there are basically two options three options here it could be tara david emily and kathleen all 25% each and i think that you and i felt pretty good about that

Emily Thompson 11:54
yeah i think we were in the beginning we were all game about that like that was the plan was that it would be braden and dee and because braid is the two of you and he is the two of us that it would just be 25 each for the four of us to do this thing in the middle

Kathleen Shannon 12:09
so then we were like what if tara and david decided to overthrow us and they're 50% of this thing

Emily Thompson 12:17
then you guys would be listening to a very different podcast

Kathleen Shannon 12:21
and that's where it kind of became clear like okay this really is the emily and kathleen show as much as we need david and tara behind the scenes which a lot of people don't see which is a whole other episode um so we decided ultimately okay so that was one one option is that david tara kathleen and emily asked me if i present another option was that braid an indie as entities split being boss 5050 but then there's a question of like what if tara booted me out of braid

Emily Thompson 12:54
right or what if someone bought two nd exact or what if i don't all kinds of what a million whatever

Kathleen Shannon 13:04
so then it ultimately came down to emily and kathleen splitting being boss 5050

Emily Thompson 13:10

Kathleen Shannon 13:12
and so that's what we're doing but it was it was kind of difficult getting to that decision

Emily Thompson 13:18
well it was a year in the making more or less to get to that decision because even really early on like whenever was a project and we were talking about it becoming you know this thing it was like oh there'll be a braid and indie thing and then and then it came in well maybe it shouldn't be it should be the four of us and then like it literally took us a year to sort of piece together the entire puzzle and this is from conversations with our lawyer or from conversations with our cpa from conversations just amongst all four of us that we had to sort of piece together everything we needed to know in terms of what is going to be not necessarily the easiest because it's not always about doing the easiest thing but but it also kind of is when it comes to like legal matters and whenever it comes to like financial matters sometimes doing the easiest thing is the easiest and best thing to do so for us it was just a little more cut and dry more of a line in the sand slash concrete that it was easier for us to do the two of us after putting all the pieces together

Kathleen Shannon 14:28
but then from that we decided so there was like a note and the note is that braden an indie get the payouts from being boss for now that that may be what happens is you and i emily revisit the operating agreement once a year and see if that's still relevant or if that makes sense or if anything has changed through that hey bosses did you have a case of fomo

Emily Thompson 14:52
that stands for the fear of missing out when you

Unknown Speaker 14:54
saw all the being boss magic go down for our being boss vacation in new orleans

Emily Thompson 15:00
We're not friends, because we are planning another boss vacation this spring in

Kathleen Shannon 15:05
Miami. So it was really hard to figure out what location to go to. But we've never been to Miami. And the reason why we do these boss vacations is to cultivate our creative Pac, see different parts of the world, get some face time with each other, connect with each other and live the boss life. So to learn more details about this boss vacation, just go to love being boss, calm slash Miami.

Emily Thompson 15:32
We hope to see you there.

Kathleen Shannon 15:39
Um, okay, here's another one that I thought was really a really interesting question. Um, oh, and I just want to say this, because we're talking about hiring a lawyer and a CPA. I think that that can be really intimidating for people because there's money going into it. And I don't think it's always entirely necessary. Again, I just want to reiterate, we didn't even have an LLC until six months in, we are just now hiring, the same CPA and a lawyer. And this is a note that I want to make on the lawyer. So our lawyer is autumn wit Boyd. And we'll be sure to link to her in the show notes. She's been really helpful to us personally, but then also to our being boss community in the Facebook page. I feel and we'll have to talk about this because there are different things where it comes to lawyers. So I think of her as representing being boss and having being boss. Being boss's best interest in mind. But if at any point, Emily, you and I started to disagree, or if we had our own lawyers, then, like our own individual lawyers might look over these contracts as well. And say, I don't know about that, you know, but we, I think that this is a place where you and I both say we both trust autumn enough to represent both of us within the context of being boss, and that is fine. But not everyone would do that. So if you do have your own lawyer, and your partner has their own lawyer, you might have those lawyers look over another operating agreement, you know, individually and separately. But that's just a lot of lawyers. I know that sounds and more money and more money. So this is like, I just wanted to point this out, because this is a decision that we had to make that we would share the same longer. And even that is a kind of a big decision. Okay, so

Unknown Speaker 17:27
together now, hardcore.

Kathleen Shannon 17:31
Yes. So here's another interesting question. And our members required to devote all their time and energy to the company. So being boss, or are they allowed to be part of other businesses and hold a job?

Emily Thompson 17:45
We both gave a resounding hell no to this one.

Kathleen Shannon 17:50
That they're both that we're both allowed to be part of other businesses and hold the job. But then whenever we really started digging into it, we asked a few questions I have highlighted that we actually maybe need to talk to autumn about is, is there a roles clause or like a minimum duties, because we are splitting this 5050? If any point one of us feels like we're carrying more weight, or if one of us feels distracted by another job? You know, we just want to keep things fair. So we wrote down, you know, maybe we have a roles clause or a minimum duties clause, should we include some things stating minimum duties or what each partner is expected to do? So this actually opened up a new conversation this week about what are our minimum roles for being boss? What do we actually want to be doing? Because whenever we first launched this project, it was kind of literally just showing up and recording, you are handling editing, I was kind of handling the content. Right, right. And sponsors, but then in not even sponsors in the beginning. You know, that was something I took on a little bit later. And so as our business grows, our roles grow. And we're not always in totally clear communication about what those roles are. So we have another meeting now to discuss those things. And I do want to discuss those things a little bit later in this podcast again, just to show what a real conversation about our roles would look like. Absolutely.

Emily Thompson 19:14
Yeah, I think, I think that we both went into this question, this idea of can we hold other jobs because, or with the idea that of course we can, because we both have other businesses, and neither of us intend in any way to leave, leave the businesses that we've built like fully in order to do being boss, especially not contract contractually? Like, I can't imagine writing the end right now. That you know, I can't work for indie, and you can't work for braid. But, you know, after diving in, we certainly like I mean, they're just there are tons of what ifs tons of little questions we need to ask to sort of come up with all of this stuff. I can't believe we're talking about this.

Kathleen Shannon 19:59
I know emily was like so terrified to talk about this in the first place and now we're talking about it on air so what happened was i just want to share this what happened was tara and i went off on our own and answered all these questions together just me and tara and emily and david went to a coffee shop and he answered the questions on their own and then basically what we did is all four of us came together in a skype session and

Unknown Speaker 20:28
competed all discuss

Kathleen Shannon 20:28
like we compared and contrasted our answers and so that was even interesting too because here we've got tara and david and ultimately we decided that being bosses me and you but i think it just goes to show how much we need tara and david in our business to make it happen and to help us make really smart decisions okay so this was the most complicated question i think one of the most complicated do you want a non compete provision that prohibits the members from opening or working for a competing company

Emily Thompson 21:04
that isn't loaded question if ever there were one

Kathleen Shannon 21:09
so our initial concern mantra whenever we were talking this over we were like yes kind of like we kind of want a non compete provision but the question is at what point did braid and indie shut biographie compete with being boss so we're actually worried about our own businesses competing with our own business okay so then

Emily Thompson 21:33
do you see why i didn't want to have this conversation

Kathleen Shannon 21:36
and then what point did you bring up emily because i feel like you brought up a really good point in the conversation that we hadn't even thought of

Emily Thompson 21:43
yeah so my point in this was was really kind of along the same lines almost in that very often and we both experienced this with our own clients under indian braid sometimes people want to hear about podcasting like how to create a podcast and if we in our separate businesses are helping other creatives start a podcast isn't that kind of competing and well i guess is it and if it is can we do we have to stop doing that and if it isn't how is it not if all the other things can be so so that was one of my big points with this was was in how it is that we work with our own clients but i did love the idea that you that you guys had brought up in terms of indian braid competing with being involved on the more narrowed point of the content that we share as indie and as braid is really the content that we share at being balls it's just we mix it all up and put it out together

Kathleen Shannon 22:46
right and then then what's confusing is at this point i know enough about running an online business and you run you know enough about personal branding that we kind of share an expertise now and we can both speak on those things very easily yeah so okay so here's what we ended up saying oh and then we also talked about distractions versus competition so that really goes back to that minimum roles clause where if if we don't have a non compete and we can take on other jobs and jobs that even kind of compete with being boss we just don't want to distract we don't want to distract our time and energy and efforts from this brand that we both agreed to build together so that's kind of confusing to you and that's still kind of a question so here's what we ultimately decided we decided to have a conditional non compete so what we literally wrote if something comes up let's have a conversation about it it's not a non compete but we promise to be good people so we kind of created this good people clause and i put it in we actually define what that means so good people means if something feels funny we have a conversation about it if we mess up we don't sue each other but we could apologize for example we won't say no if oprah calls so this is like our real example let's say oprah calls emily and it's like emily i want you to come on the oprah show and you know technically that could have been

Emily Thompson 24:19
cool yeah well our thing was because this is also something else we talked about like can either of us start other podcasts so like even if they're super not related like is it competitive thing because by gassing is is a whole realm itself and so what if oprah calls me as it may very well happen one day she doesn't call me up and whatever i get it i've got your number she calls and she wants me to start like an oprah podcast where i am i was tara had this really great story behind it it was like i'm going to be like a Reporter have something awesome. And of course, my first reaction was well can Kathleen calm? And Oprah says, No, I only want you. So I know I'd be very sad. But it's Oprah. Like, you just don't question that. So

Unknown Speaker 25:15
don't say no. Right.

Kathleen Shannon 25:17
So that's what we literally wrote this into our close into our clause. We won't say no, if Oprah calls, we'll be happy for each other. But we'll also try and get each other on The Oprah show too. So like good people just means we're going to consider each other. And there have been a few instances, I can't really even entirely think about, Oh, okay.

Unknown Speaker 25:38
For example, a couple

Kathleen Shannon 25:40
the period underwear people.

Emily Thompson 25:42

Kathleen Shannon 25:43
So there's this brand called things and they created a line called icon, which is if you pay yourself a little bit whenever you workout, because maybe you've pushed a baby out of your hoo ha, for like, an hour and a half. And you can wear this underwear, and even if you pay yourself a little bit, it's no big deal. So they were interested in sponsoring being boss and Emily was like, No,

Emily Thompson 26:06
no, we thought about it, we thought about it. That's actually whenever we decided to really start drawing a line with sponsors where, you know, if someone comes to us with the idea of like, we're going to sell out, but we're not going to sell our soul sell out, where we just sort of created some guidelines around what kinds of sponsors we would take for the being boss podcast, and making sure that there are really people who are going to help creative entrepreneurs live and work better. Especially that workpiece though I definitely think that period panties can help you work better. I could sit here all day and not ever have to go pay think about how much work I do myself right now.

Kathleen Shannon 26:47
So, and that's just kind of like when I came Oh, so then I was like, Well, can I work with them directly? You know, and that was just a conversation that we had, we've had other opportunities to, I think, where people have approached us to teach courses or to speak, and it was always kind of a, okay, but I prefer to speak with, you know, either Emily on behalf of being boss or with my sister on behalf of braid, or if it's by myself, then I kind of need to run it by both of you and see is this a braid project or being boss project this opportunity and seeing really where the money goes? So that's kind of like that's kind of the thing is whenever we get opportunities that one of us needs to say no to really kind of talking it through. So again, it's just about having the conversation.

Emily Thompson 27:34
Yeah, and it's worked out really well. So far. There have been multiple opportunities up through the matter, though, there have been multiple opera. Shit, I can't say that word today.

Unknown Speaker 27:45

Emily Thompson 27:46
there have been multiple opportunities, where I'm where we both needed to go to come to each other. And like, I can think of a couple emails where we're just like, hey, okay, here's what's on my plate. Here's this with this person doing this thing about this, and this and this. And is any of this being boss stuff? And Robert would write back and say, No, do it or, yes, let's talk about it, whatever it may be, and it works out really well. And I think that, that good people clause, that idea that we're just going to go into this with, with the idea that whenever opportunities come our way, we just sort of run it by each other. And if it's a good fit for both of us, we do it if it's not do it separately, because we do have these other businesses that we're building. But just making sure that we're being good people about it and being open and constantly having those conversations so that we know what's going on.

Kathleen Shannon 28:41
Okay, and on that note, there was an intellectual property question that was kind of interesting. Yeah. So the question was, do you want the company so do you want being boss to own any copyrights, trademarks or patents that any member creates while a member of the company? Or will the members be allowed to create an own their own IP on the side? So ultimately, we decided, kind of it's a free for all that members are allowed to create their own IP on the side. plus any content that comes from shared being boss content can be used by either member in our own digital products and services. However, here's here's where our kind of compromise was. However, the brand headline name subtitles being boss is owned by the company except for byline. So excluding BIOS like Kathleen Shannon of being bossed if I were to start my Oprah podcast do Wait, Oprah's calling No, that's me,

Unknown Speaker 29:37

Kathleen Shannon 29:40
So we did a double asterisks after that just again saying we promised to be good people. Okay, but then here's what we did say this is not mean that indie short biography can use braid content and braid cannot use indie content that we've shared on being boss. So for example, on things like even like the chalkboard method, that is a In the Brady course, so if Emily were to teach to the chalkboard method, and you know, Emily, you have shared some stuff of braids before, but you ask permission. Right?

Unknown Speaker 30:09
So and vice versa

Kathleen Shannon 30:11
conversation. Yeah, exactly right. I use one of your things that a recent workshop I had, you asked me about it, I asked you about it. Hey, can I use this? So that's the main thing is just like asking permission and nine times out of 10, we're going to say yes. Or no creates a new conversation where it's like, hey, I want to do this thing. And then it might be like, hey, let's do that together through being boss, you know, and I feel like that's what has happened more often than not.

Emily Thompson 30:38
Right, exactly. Emily here coming at you to talk about managing your schedule. One of the hardest things about being boss is how many people can be vying for your attention from clients and customers to online buddies, real life friends and family and more. Scheduling time to focus on your work or yourself gets more and more important, the more boss you get. Our friends at acuity scheduling are here to help you take back your calendar, giving you the functionality you need to easily block out times for focus, and leaving time open for checking in with clients and friends with an easy to use interface that matches your actual schedule, with available appointment times making it impossible for your schedule to get hijacked by another meeting. Schedule clients without sacrificing your soul. Sign up for your free 60 day trial of scheduling sanity at acuity scheduling.com slash being boss. Now, let's get back at it.

Kathleen Shannon 31:44
Okay, the final thing, and this is only really a portion of operating agreement, and I hope autumn doesn't sue us for sharing some of her operating agreement questions on air. Um, but this one was really complicated, and probably the one we spend the most time talking about, and I don't want to spend that much time talking about it again today. I just want you guys to know that we had a long conversation about it, which was, do you want any special provisions? If one member wants to quit working with the company? Must they sell their membership interest? Or can they keep it or does other person buy them out? We had no idea.

Emily Thompson 32:22
Yeah, this one. I'm still thinking about this one. Honestly, like I was thinking about last night I was laying down to go to sleep. I was like,

Kathleen Shannon 32:31
Look, it's really relaxing thing to think.

Emily Thompson 32:35
Well, you know, when you're laying there, and you like all the things are just rushing through your brain as you're like trying to chill out. I remember thinking about this because there are so many what ifs here, like, you know, the obvious, or I guess the more obvious ones or like our you know, what if I just want to leave? Or what if you need to go? Or you know, those sorts of things like, you know, do I have to buy you out to kick you out? Or do you need to buy me out if I decide that I just want to leave one day? Or but then there's like the less obvious ones of like, what happens if I get really sick? And like need out? I don't want to or

Unknown Speaker 33:12
whenever we had this conversation.

Kathleen Shannon 33:16
Like what happens if David gets?

Emily Thompson 33:19
It's not funny. It's not funny. It's not I will exactly Okay. Well, the what happens if David gets sick? What happens if Lily gets sick? Or what happens if what happens if Chattanooga loses all access to internet?

Kathleen Shannon 33:34
Oh, hell no, you're moving right? Pack your bags, you're coming to Oklahoma, right? Where the internet is strong, where the wind comes sweeping down the plains, and the internet is strong.

Emily Thompson 33:45
Good that flatland has great internet? Um, yeah, I think I don't know there. There are just a million what ifs here? And is it buying someone out because you don't want to incentivize someone to just leave if something gets tough, because things are going to get tough. And you don't want to totally screw over someone who may need to leave for, you know, a super legitimate reason. But you also want to make sure that I don't know just everything's taken care of in the event that like, just in the event that something happens one way or the other. So that one was a really hard one. So like the obvious one is a buyout. Like it's even phrasing the question the idea of like buying someone out. But you know, what happens with like a product that we create together. So you know, let's say you and I write the most awesome ecourse to ever graced the internet. And you use the same content after I leave, like, Am I still entitled to a portion of that revenue because my content is still being sold? Or is there a tiered buyout or is there a complete and utter buyout or do I simply lose all access like million? what ifs?

Kathleen Shannon 34:58
Yeah, so we talked about Let's say Emily left and I was still selling this product that we created together if I'm still using her image and her brand to help note it, because let's say she does become Oprah, then then yeah, right, she deserves a portion of it. But is that portion 5050? I kind of am leaning towards, we still split product 5050 forever. That was my thoughts on it. But then we had even more conversations around that and more what I've seen, that kind of changed our answer a little bit. So the point of what I'm trying to say here is sometimes these questions lead to more questions. And in some ways, that's okay. And in some ways, you know, the things that we thought that we were going to be kind of strict on, we were actually a lot more lacks on like, non competes and intellectual property, some of the things that I thought that we'd be more lacks on you're a little bit more strict on like, don't, don't leverage the being boss brand for your own personal gain unless we're splitting it. So it's just kind of it's really interesting. Okay, I want to point out one other thing that I learned here, if that's cool. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 36:11

Kathleen Shannon 36:12
you know, going back to Jenny and Sophie asking us about partnering up and kind of skirting the question. One of the things that Jenny mentioned to me in an email was I want to know about partnering and I it's a conversation I want to be having, but it's kind of different for you and Tara, because your sisters or even for you and David because your common law.

Emily Thompson 36:34
He's a baby daddy.

Kathleen Shannon 36:36
So, um, it is different in some ways. But I'll tell you this terribly went through the operating agreement, kind of for our own business for braid. And it was even more difficult to, it was more difficult for us to fill out for me and her than it was for all of us to do for being boss. And it's because it is. So we are so like psychically and emotionally and biologically connected, that it was really hard to make certain decisions because and Adam internally have gotten in some pretty heavy conversations, where I mean, even I'll be completely honest, as of a couple of months ago, I thought I was completely going to leave braid, just to work on being boss. Like it just felt like the clean thing to do. Like, you know, just kind of just compartmentalizing our own roles within braid, it got really confusing, because I'm spending so much time on being boss, like, what does that mean for my roles and braid? And what does that mean? You know, shifting my roles from one thing to another? Do I still deserve to get paid the same amount? And does she deserve to get half of my half of being boss? You know what I mean? So really tricky questions and lots of tears. And so for me, it's been more complicated being in business with my sister, in some ways easier, because there's this sort of shorthand there. But that That said, it's been really easy being in business with you, Emily. But I'm, in a lot of ways really complicated, because it's just so easy to get really personal really fast.

Emily Thompson 38:18
Yeah, I definitely. I definitely agree with all of that, whenever. So David, and I also did one and we actually found it much easier to do the one just between the two of us than it was to do the beam boss one. And for us, it was really just the fact that there were so many people involved, like it was easier for us to just sort of draw some lines between like the two of us versus drawing lines between four different or like, between four of us. But I mean, in all of it like these are really heavy conversations. I mean, we got our questionnaire from autumn, two months ago, maybe. And I mean, it took us all a couple of weeks to like, get our sides of it done. And then we knew we needed to set a meeting for us do it together. I think we've maybe even set a meeting or two that didn't quite make it before we actually were able to sit down and I not so joked many times that we all needed to have wine. None of us did. We all came completely sober, to get it done, but it is it's just really heavy conversations. And I think that's, I think that is one of the most important things that I've taken from this because I work with a lot of people like Yes, I'm a you know, online entrepreneur, and I am my own boss and all that jazz but, but I have lots of contractors. I have a couple of employees. I partner with David, I have Kathleen, I have Tara and Caitlin like I have, I have a ton of people that I work with and the people that you partner with the easiest, the best and the people that you partner with that you make the biggest impact with are the people that are able to have hard conversations with you, period and like I think because we we all got through this operating agreement which at the moment is the hardest conversations we've ever had to have like what happens when one of us dies what happens when two of us dies like those sorts of things whenever

Kathleen Shannon 40:14
you can have right because we're like most likely one pair of us is going to die together whether it be me and emily on a vacation together falling

Unknown Speaker 40:25
in miami

Emily Thompson 40:33
or it's going to be david knight together or you and tara together and and what happens whenever what happens to like my equity if dave and i are in a car crash like do you get it all does lily get any of it like just so many things that whenever you can have those hard conversations with someone you just you know you're in it like and i've i've been in touch with plenty of people that you cannot have a hard conversation with and those people are not good partners period you

Kathleen Shannon 41:04
know what's so funny is i don't even think that's the hardest conversation i've had with you

Emily Thompson 41:11
what's been harder

Kathleen Shannon 41:13
admitting to you the other day that i was having a really hard time getting shit done

Emily Thompson 41:17

Kathleen Shannon 41:19
honey it was so hard for me to tell you that like i was just feeling scattered and i was having a hard time like getting started because i feel like you're just over there always grinding away and then to admit to you that i felt like i almost felt like i was admitting to you that i didn't feel like i was pulling my weight even though that's not the case because i do feel like i've been working really hard i just feel like i can't tackle my to do list in the same way that you're able to at the pace that you're able to create my to do list so you know it was really hard it was really hard to kind of admit that to you but then you were like really kind and you're like girl you just didn't get out post it notes write three things on a post it and it was it was fine and you know it's always been that way with her to like the things that i'm really scared to talk about like even money for example once i talk to her about it it's so much better and same thing for you know any sort of relationship the things left unsaid or sometimes more difficult at least for me than the things yes that are said

Emily Thompson 42:23
well and i think that's absolutely right i mean what you were just saying about like you just you sort of have these hard conversations and they're not that bad i mean we did this operating agreement and we decided to talk about it again obviously not quite that bad and and i agree i mean i completely agree hard conversations when you get them going are rarely actually that hard i kind of had fun with you and tara the other day going over this operation agreement

Kathleen Shannon 42:52
and you know this is like another example of working in sales because i actually was not dreading the work the operating agreement as much as you were right and it was just kind of procrastinating again with my problem of getting things done it was just kind of kept falling at the bottom of my list but there are certainly things that are hard for me to talk about and i think one of them might even be like roles or communication styles you know like for me that's harder to talk about probably than an operating agreement and like what happens if we die probably because i'm like i talked about what happens if we die for fun on a date

Unknown Speaker 43:31
you do

Emily Thompson 43:33
you're a hysterically morbid person um yeah well and i think i think there is also a difference between all of the what ifs and the what is that like you can we what if it all day long like that

Kathleen Shannon 43:50
is a pullquote right there if i ever heard one

Emily Thompson 43:53
right tweet that um but really though like what what effing is hard and going morbid for me is not as fun as it is for you but you definitely make it more fun for me i appreciate you for that um because but it is the things where you know where are we in this moment and are you having problems getting things done or what things do you want to be doing all day and what things do you need to delegate and what things because i'm looking at you kathleen what things are you afraid to delegate oh

Kathleen Shannon 44:33
map i think i just got called out right there um so no these are all really great questions and i actually started so one of our tasks this week was to outline our roles and emily posed it to our entire team for being bossard okay this is another thing we've started having wednesday puddles if you will they're supposed to be 30 minute long meetings but they're always an hour we're supposed to only cover three things in each meeting but we always cover like eight Um, so we were asked to all kind of outline our roles. And this isn't just me and Emily, this includes our team, primarily right now being Caitlin and Chris and Cory. So I started to work on my list of roles and things that I love doing. And under it, I started writing things I need to delegate or create systems within those things. So like, for me, the biggest things that I love doing and being boss are obviously co hosting, literally getting on the podcast with you, which is just a fraction of what we actually Wish I could do more

Emily Thompson 45:37
of this.

Kathleen Shannon 45:40
And I love creating content and agendas around that. We're about to launch a blog. And I love the idea of kind of in the same way that I create content or help coordinate our editorial calendar, doing that for the blog, except really, I can imagine Caitlyn taking a lot of ownership over that, that Caitlin is going to be filling out her own roles. So we'll see kind of where there are overlaps and where there are disconnects. And one of the things I love doing is creative direction. And right now we're rebranding. And that's probably the thing that I'm slowest. That's probably the thing I'm feeling the most guilty around, like not being super on top of lately. Because I you know what I think it is, I think it's actually going back to that creative process thing where I'm feeling a little bit intimidated and paralyzed just because I wanted to be so good. So it's not even the kinds of problems that I face. Now, it's kind of facing the same problem that I would face maybe five or seven years ago as a creative of like, okay, I want this to be really good. And I will say it's hard to delegate that down. Like just in my, in my and you know, this having gone through braid methods, like, whenever it comes to design, I can get real particular and it's something I take for granted. Now, because I've been doing it for so long, but it's still so much a part of who I am I really care about how much spacing is between between letters I manage about, you know, like getting the certain right cropping on a photo and getting the right amount of like composition in a grid. It's just never it gets deep. I love doing I love doing it. And once I'm in it, I love it. Anyway, so I love creative direction brand management, I love actually love engaging with our guests and our sponsors, like on the back end. I don't like all the emails necessarily, but like kind of courting those people. I like that part. So that's the stuff I like doing for being boss.

Unknown Speaker 47:38
What about you?

Kathleen Shannon 47:39
What do you like doing? Um,

Emily Thompson 47:41
I like showing up to record that's one of my favorites. Um, I really see I really enjoy like the team management part I like, like brainstorming and I guess ideating is one of my favorite things. And like, whenever you and I get to hang out together and just sort of go over like, what we want to build like what we want this to be so a lot of the planning and stuff. But then I really enjoyed taking all that planning and tasks as you know, cackling Asana scary place. So I really like doing funny,

Kathleen Shannon 48:13
I bet I feel guilty because you're doing this thing that you love doing and I'm not doing more of it.

Emily Thompson 48:18

Kathleen Shannon 48:20
this happened with me and Tara a lot to like where she would feel guilty for not doing a lot of blogging and interviews and stuff like that. And I was like what I love doing that part. Just let me do it. Yeah, well, so

Emily Thompson 48:32
I love tasking things out. I like getting into Asana and taking so you know, right now we're doing a rebrand and website and going in and just saying, Alright, we're doing a website, here are the 80 million to dues we need to accomplish to get there. And tasking those out in just sort of keeping that managed and, and like, you know, I do the I do the little agendas for our meetings every week. So I really liked that sort of team management side of things. Um, I also I like some of the tech stuff. But I also but that's also on my delegate list. Like, you know, I edited the podcast for a long time, like I'm the one who figured out where it all needed to be hosted and got all that going and, and I guess right now we're we're done with the hosting part. And we're getting into like new email marketing platforms and signing up for things like lead pages, like I really like figuring out what we need to make things do. But I am perfectly fine with delegating someone actually setting it up for me. Yeah, personally. So what else do I like to do? I really like writing to I'm really excited about writing content for for our new website. That's something that I've been doing doing quite a bit lately is just getting a couple of blog posts together so that we have some to launch with and I've really enjoyed getting back into writing, which is something that I stopped doing whenever really kind of when we started this podcast, like I stopped writing as much because I was you know putting content out another way. So getting back to actually writing has been a lot of fun. I really love that you guys do like the content planning. And and then I'm able to just show up and grab a couple of blog posts and write them up. So, so I really like writing that content. And then there are tons of things that I'm really okay delegating, like whether that be, again, a lot of actual doing the tech things, or like the social media stuff, like I'm fine with somebody else posting all of that stuff. So I was

Kathleen Shannon 50:26
gonna say, I actually like the social media, like kind of creating and curating content for social media. Oh, good, do that. Not that I literally want to post it, but kind of telling Caitlyn, I'm like, hey, add this to our Edgar. Whatever.

Emily Thompson 50:42
Yeah, I like I like that, too. And

Kathleen Shannon 50:44
kind of like zooming out social media plans. And I know, that's part of what Chris does,

Unknown Speaker 50:47
too, right?

Emily Thompson 50:49
We'll see. And so that's like, a really funny part in our business is because you have Caitlyn and I have Chris and Caitlin and Chris, kind of do the same things in our individual businesses. So and that's really where one of one of the things that prompted prompted this idea of like, let's get in here and really make some roles for everyone is that I was really getting confused as to who I should be getting to do things. So you know, if we have a task come up, like, do I email Chris, or Caitlin? Or do I just send it to Kathleen, and then No, of course, I don't send it to Kathleen, also to Cory,

Unknown Speaker 51:22
or whatever it

Emily Thompson 51:22
may be so. So really just sort of, and sort of getting Chris and Caitlin out of their roles at Braden and D, because they will still have those roles. But giving them sort of a whole separate set of roles. For brains, I think is I think the big one for me,

Kathleen Shannon 51:38
I can totally see Kaitlyn taking more creative control over the blog and overseeing that in being boss and kind of coordinating guests. We don't even do that at braid. And I think it really fits in line with more of her own personal business that she just launched to. But okay, so as I was kind of figuring out my roles, which really does sum up our co hosting, content creation and curation, including the newsletter, I've been really enjoying the newsletter, right, and they've been great. No sponsorship, relationships, creative director. So then I started to realize, though, that I need help in some of these areas. And so I'm just gonna listen up, listen up a few things I wrote down, including, like, where I need help with content creation, and curation, all the technical logistics,

Unknown Speaker 52:28
and the details.

Kathleen Shannon 52:30
following up with guest prior to recording, following up with guests after recording, thank you gifts, you know, like things like this that actually start to and that is also a sponsor and guests relationships, and things like actual implementation of coordination and posting blogs, social media, follow up. editing and literally loading and sending out the newsletters, like, there are things that I like doing like writing a newsletter, but I don't like loading it up into the system. And hitting send, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 52:59
that's a pain in the ass.

Kathleen Shannon 53:00
So you know, and it's not that bad. And it's stuff that we do and stuff that we've done in our own businesses, and I still do it in braid. But you know, the thing that you said the other day really resonated with me, where if we're going to be a big deal means you're acting like a big deal behind the scenes. And that means just getting a lot more organized and means delegating a lot of stuff off of our plate so that we can do what we're best at, because anyone can load up a newsletter. And not anyone can hold the vision that we hold for being boss. And that's really where we need to focus our efforts,

Emily Thompson 53:33
a man that I completely agree and, and this is something, it's something that I struggle with a lot like, Oh, I'm gonna get super vulnerable here. So one of the things that one of the things that I struggle with a lot is like me within my team, because like, I have my really great team, and sometimes I feel a little guilty that like, I'm not in the dirt as much as they are. Like, for example, one of the big things right now is the new website. And guys, it's on WordPress, and I really hate WordPress, a whole lot. And, um, and so it's like, I

Unknown Speaker 54:14
don't even know what that means. I know, I

Emily Thompson 54:16
know, it's fine. I get really techie nerdy and angry about it, it's fine. And like my list of reasons I was telling Kathleen earlier, she just looked at me like what it's just a thing, trust me. And like I was trying to get in and like just trying to like pull my weight quote unquote, and get in and just like style up some things and in the code and because I'm just not a WordPress person, and because it's just like, principle for me at this point. Like I'm just an angry old woman about it. I couldn't get it done. And so I just like push it off to Cory and then I feel a little guilty about it, but guys, like I hire my team for this. Um, so for me, that's that's a really big struggle. as is as a boss putting myself in the position to be a boss and not feeling guilty that i'm not as in the trenches as the team that i hire to be in the trenches and sometimes i let that sometimes i let that sort of deter me from like doing doing the things that i need to do because sometimes i feel like i should be doing the things that they are doing to just because they're just as achy as like

Kathleen Shannon 55:29
so maybe you are projecting whenever you asked me what i was scared to unload off my plate

Emily Thompson 55:37
so from 9am

Kathleen Shannon 55:39
i am sorry um something i real conversation here right um sometimes i feel guilty with my team just whenever i feel like i'm not as good at something as my team is but we were just talking to meg keane from the classical wedding and i think she even mentioned something about hiring people you can do things better than you can and really no shame in that game i think just early in our boss career we were so used to hiring people to train them in something that we were already doing that now whenever we have to hire people or rely on our staff to do things that we just don't know how to do or don't know how to do anymore like there's some things that you used to know how to do

Emily Thompson 56:23
the most frustrating thing to me about this damn website is that i do websites like websites are my jam like i love code and i get really nerdy about it and there are things about this that i just want to like dig into this website and make it amazing but i just can't and so for me for me with this website it has literally been just letting it go and know like and even now like i am mocking up a website that is already designed and loaded but i'm mocking it up anyway so that i can make the tweaks that i need to make stylistically so i can send them to cory so that he can do what he's really great at and that is implementing my designs as needed so absolutely i'm totally projecting on to you

Kathleen Shannon 57:09
so then this is like an interesting overlap of roles so the other day you mocked up the sales page and yeah i looked at it and it's good

Unknown Speaker 57:18

Kathleen Shannon 57:19
it's fine it's fine but you know i'm on the other end like really crafting this type biography on our images and so i had to ask you i said hey would i be stepping on your toes if i redesign this nearly girl no go for it i just need the branding to be a little deeper i just need one more like hierarchy of typographic t i was like i gotcha but i kind of had a different vision in my head and i just want to make sure i wasn't stepping on your toes so again that's another example of where you know even you and i are roles as creative directors overlaps a little bit and i had to make sure that i wasn't crossing boundaries of what is acceptable acceptable for me to be designing and really what you already had in the can so yeah and i think for us there's going to be a little bit of redundancies there or you know one of us working on something only to have it redone by the other person and i i want to point out though that i don't think that that is inefficient i think what it does is it allows both of us to get in the trenches and kind of noodle on something together because then it is so like really collaborative and liz and i do this even within braid all the time where we will ping pong and design back and forth until we get it to where we want it and i i haven't had that relationship with very many people ever like i have home buddy i know we can be ping pong so anyway that was just another interesting roles area where i said okay you know i know that you design and develop but can i tweak this a little bit or can i change the typography a little bit so

Emily Thompson 58:51
well and i thought i also want to like throw another layer on this too because like i also didn't care

Unknown Speaker 58:58
know exactly and i know that

Emily Thompson 59:01
well and honestly like i did it so that's been another like one of our like little things on the to do list is sales pages because it was a sales page layout and and like the whole time i'm choosing this other font i think david was even the room in the room i was like kathleen's gonna hate this shit but still i needed to get something up because my thought was if i can get this started and if i can get this began and kathlyn can have a beginning place i knew you were going to come into this exact and absolutely want to change it

Kathleen Shannon 59:34
like maybe you did that font just i would get it done you're like this little setup filing

Emily Thompson 59:39
no i could have done a worse one i definitely i thought about it but i thought it was no i know i know it really wasn't bad i like the font i will use it for something else someday but but it definitely was one of those things where you know as creatives and by god we work with them all the time as creatives you can get really stuck into what it is that you do, and think that no one else can do it better, or as good or anywhere near you. And like, I think one of the things that allows us to work really well is that we do know how to ping pong. Like, neither of our egos are that large yet that, that, like, I'm not gonna get offended if you want to, you know, go tweak something. I know, here's a caveat. Except for that time that what calf?

Unknown Speaker 1:00:31

Kathleen Shannon 1:00:32
I just want to say that whenever you and I delegate down too much, we, I think that there is a certain amount of us being type A creatives and having creative control over our brand. And I'm specifically talking about design and writing. And whenever we delegate it, you know, the content, like it would be like someone else coming on our podcasts and talking, which we have guests all the time. But you know what I mean, like someone else being the host, it just wouldn't be the same. And so I feel like there have been times in the last year where you and I have been in a pickle, like, for example, over the holidays, remember, Liz was on maternity leave, and I had a really step up in braid. We were having a delegate a lot of Sit down. And I feel like the quality not because our team isn't talented, but because again, you and I, our main role in being bosses holding the vision for what it is, I felt like that vision was, was slipping a little bit, and by nobody's fault at our own, because if we can't do it, like if we can't delegate properly, it means that we're not setting proper expectations for our brand. And it means that we need to communicate that much more. But sometimes you and I just have a hard time finding time between our client work and all of our tasks and to dues to really communicate with our team what it is that we're doing. So we even have Caitlin recently was like, okay, whenever you guys really get this branding underway, can you like create a slide deck that really tells us what's what and so that's why we're taking being bossed to the braid methods that we can create that brand and business vision platform that we can then share with our team so they know exactly the tone we're trying to strike.

Emily Thompson 1:02:16
Yeah, definitely. If If I have learned anything from you know, this partnership and and you know, building this thing with someone but like not even just with you, but like having a team like they were what like six of us. ish. Shit. What are we doing with our lives? But like,

Kathleen Shannon 1:02:38
I think seven one of the eight.

Emily Thompson 1:02:41
Are you serious? Well, okay, let's

Kathleen Shannon 1:02:42
let's get on this actually. So that you guys know who all goes into making being boss happen. It's me and Emily, Tara, David, Caitlin, Chris Corey. And then Jessica.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:53
That eight is? Yeah, that's a nice,

Kathleen Shannon 1:02:57
I hope I'm not forgetting anyone. Nice. And then there's all of our guests all of her fans. Oh, um, we

Unknown Speaker 1:03:04
have our Facebook group moderators, Jessica Whalen and Jennifer Bernie Robin. Yeah, there

Emily Thompson 1:03:09
you go. 10. There 10 of us.

Kathleen Shannon 1:03:11
I mean, there's a lot.

Emily Thompson 1:03:12
There's a lot that goes into it. But if there's anything that I've learned, you know, in terms of doing this partnership is just like, is really how to communicate and like and we don't have it down pat now like that's why we need to do roles, like I don't know who to communicate to and how I should do it. And they don't know what the brand looks like and sounds like and that's why we're doing a slide deck. Like, if you want to partner with someone, you better learn how to talk. And like and talk, incisively and decisively and know how to just know how to deliver x.

Kathleen Shannon 1:03:46

Emily Thompson 1:03:48
I like to make what is that? I

Kathleen Shannon 1:03:50
mean? concisely. Oh, is it? I mean, if we're gonna show people how we actually talk, I'll show them the made up words and making fun

Emily Thompson 1:04:01
of each other from right away. I like incisively said concisely and decisively. But communication is absolutely key. And like doing this website, this brand and website like I know if either of us were to like sit separately and do this like apart it would have been done three months ago. right buddy because it's true, so true. But because there are so many moving parts and because we were all involved in because like I would have just developed up that sales page and said screw it, I don't care. But like there is this there is this whole other process that goes into doing what we're doing now. And like if you are ready for shit to take three times as long as it usually does like being a solopreneur then High Five partner up. But what I will tell you is that the product that we're able to make because it's the two of us slash 10 of us is is so much bigger and better than if either of us were sitting in our opposite corners doing it ourselves

Unknown Speaker 1:05:08
in crime.

Kathleen Shannon 1:05:11
I like I almost teared up a little bit. I'm, I'm being honest. Oh, no, because it's true. And yeah. Oh, but I also think you and I are doing a lot of new things that we've never done before. Oh, yeah. So

Unknown Speaker 1:05:24
about that you

Kathleen Shannon 1:05:26
really designed up a website in a long time. And so for me, it's like, you guys, I don't understand like, what size they make his picture? And then and then it's wrong.

Emily Thompson 1:05:37
Right? Well, like, how

Kathleen Shannon 1:05:39
does Responsive Web work? I don't get it.

Emily Thompson 1:05:43
Well, yeah. Okay. So we were talking about this on several fronts the other day, one of which being that like, we don't have a daily routine anymore, like, everything we're doing on any given day is unlike anything we've done on any previous days, period, because everything we're doing is totally new, which is you're sort of making our entire lives totally wacky. But you're also right, so like, usually, you guys would deliver to me a full brand, and I would design a website around it. Mm hmm. But you guys are you are having to build out a brand further than you've ever not ever, but further than you've had do in a really long time.

Kathleen Shannon 1:06:18
And also, I'm building it to what is actually to where the brand is actually going to live, you know, usually under the brand platform in a really broad way, where people can use it in a lot of different ways, and really just have all the ingredients. I'm not, I'm not gonna say wasting my time, I'm just trying to be really efficient about building our brand, it really actually would have gone by a lot faster if I just built the platform first.

Emily Thompson 1:06:47

Kathleen Shannon 1:06:50
I've kind of been tailoring it. Okay, this is what I've been doing. I've been tailoring it to the website, versus creating this, like broad stroke platform first. Anyway, that has like, its pros and cons. Well, and I think kind of rolling this out as I go.

Emily Thompson 1:07:05
And altogether, I think that like our processes are broken right now. I mean, like, because you have a process for doing a brand, I have a process for doing a website, like and not only not only are we holding ourselves to these, like whole other level of standards, but we're doing it completely out of our usual boxes, like I'm developing, or I'm not even developing the, it's on WordPress. I haven't done a WordPress website, and for ever. So I mean, five years is easy. So whenever I think about whenever I think about just what we're doing, and with this many people and with sort of scattered roles, and we're just trying to figure it out ourselves. It's just this whole other beast. That's just amazing, and kind of crazy.

Kathleen Shannon 1:07:56
So I kind of want to wrap up this episode just by saying, we obviously talked about ourselves a lot in this process. But what I want to say is that for anyone partnering up is a lot of talking about yourselves. And I just wanted you guys to witness what it's like for Emily and I have these conversations. Because the truth is, we don't have it all figured out. We have to talk it through. We don't have like a business plan mapped out on paper that is guaranteed success for all of us. We're just kind of bumbling our way through it. And so a lot of times that's what a partnership looks like. And that is I think as long as you love each other and respect each other, and have the same vision in mind and talk all the time. You're going to be good. Thank you for listening to being boss. Find Show Notes for this episode at love being boss calm. Listen to past episodes and subscribe to new episodes on our website on iTunes, SoundCloud

Emily Thompson 1:08:58
or Stitcher. Did you like this episode? Head on over to our Facebook group by searching being boss on facebook and join in on the conversation with other bosses or share it with your friends. Do the work be boss and we'll see you next week.

Kathleen Shannon 1:09:31
oh hang on Fox's school is calling. Ro Hello.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:42
Oh what's up

Unknown Speaker 1:09:52
are you in the potty

Kathleen Shannon 1:10:02
Hi, I'm Fox. Can you tell me again what you did?

Unknown Speaker 1:10:09
Did you go poopoo in the potty?

Kathleen Shannon 1:10:25
I will you take a picture for me?

Unknown Speaker 1:10:29

Kathleen Shannon 1:10:34
oh my gosh, I'm so excited. Thank you for calling.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:41
No. Well, I was I'm recording a podcast right now and I was like, Oh my god, I was Fox. Okay, like, you know your heart jumps in or you get like a call from school. Well, I'm so glad he's okay and that you poopoo it in the body. I'm so excited.

Kathleen Shannon 1:10:56
Thanks for calling. Bye bye Foxy Love you. Bye. Foxy just pooped in the potty so his school and never call

Emily Thompson 1:11:13
that you just had a freakout face. I saw it

Kathleen Shannon 1:11:17
man. So like real conversation the school just called and I was freaked out and she almost sounded like she was crying when right answer the phone and I was like, oh my god what happened? And and she was like Fox just pooping in the potty for the first time. That's

Emily Thompson 1:11:33
amazing. That's always a happy day.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:37
Look at look at this.

Emily Thompson 1:11:39
Big Boy poop. That Oh,

Kathleen Shannon 1:11:45
I'm so proud of my baby pooping on the party.

Emily Thompson 1:11:49
I'm proud of him too. That's big deal. That's big deal. She it. Very proud.

Kathleen Shannon 1:11:56
It's actually a really tiny little preview.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:59
It's not the size. I love that. There's

Unknown Speaker 1:12:00
like a little skidmark in the bowl.

Emily Thompson 1:12:07
V net good

Unknown Speaker 1:12:09

Emily Thompson 1:12:12