Part 2: Retirement Planning for Entrepreneurs with Sarah Becker

[00:00:00] Emily Thompson: Welcome to Being Boss, a podcast for creatives, business owners and entrepreneurs who want to take control of their work and live life on their own terms. I'm your host, Emily Thompson, and in this second part of a two part conversation with my friend Sarah Becker, we are wrapping up our chat about retirement for bosses. In this half we're diving into alternative investment options and using your business as a part of your retirement plan, you can find all the tools, books, and links we reference on the show notes at www.beingboss.club. And if you like this episode, be sure to subscribe to this show and share us with a friend.

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[00:01:40] Okay, then let's like, then let's scoot back to the other end of this conversation and talk about some of these other little, you talked about lifestyle creep, which I love. I feel like that's one I'm really good at that. Really great. I succeed greatly at some lifestyle creep.

[00:01:56] Sarah Becker: I also have to say,

[00:01:58] Emily Thompson: It is ebbs and flows.

[00:01:59] Sarah Becker: With the current. Yes, and with the current economy, with inflation and with prices rising and with covid affecting supply chain and all those issues, I honestly feel like you have to actively work to keep your expenses, what they were three years ago, if you can even do that. I can't do that. So, you know, don't think that I'm doing that.

[00:02:15] I'm absolutely spending more money on groceries, obviously on fuel, on all sorts of things. Um, so that's just another, for me, another reason to watch lifestyle creep, because I'm not talking about inflation, I'm talking about lifestyle creep. I'm talking about, well, I did pretty well this year, so I think I can do this $10,000 vacation. Can you though?

[00:02:33] Yeah.

[00:02:33] Should you though? Only, only if your retirement account is maxed out.

[00:02:36] Emily Thompson: Right? This could be a $40,000 vacation post 65.

[00:02:40] Sarah Becker: It could, it could. Another little trick I like to do, and look, if you thought I was a nerd before Emily, I'm afraid. If I'm contemplating a purchase. I'm talking about a, I'm talking about a pretty, like a big purchase, like even over $500, over a thousand dollars, and I'm not sure.

[00:02:57] I'm like, should I do this? I will literally put it into an investment calculator and see if I invested that money instead in 30 years, how much money would it be.

[00:03:08] Emily Thompson: And what do you, how do you then sort of make the call?

[00:03:12] Sarah Becker: Okay, so this, and this can, and it can go either ways either way, because my friend Katie Gatti, who runs Money with Katie, who's an amazing, she has per, she's per personal finance, blogger and writer.

[00:03:23] She talked about doing this and how, you know, they live in a high cost of living area in Colorado and she, the house that they wanted to have was three grand a month, and she was like, how can I spend three grand a month on my rented home? You know, she had a hard time with that, and so she literally calculated, okay, if I rented a $2,000 town home instead, knowing that my quality of life would truly decrease, you know, how much money would it really save me? Oh, like, you know, if we do this for a couple years, it's really only gonna save like when I'm 60, like 30 grand or whatever. And she's like, to me it's not worth it. I wanna have a good quality of life

[00:03:56] now. I'm gonna do that. But if I'm like, oh, like I kind of wanna do this thing that I don't really need to do, it's like two grand and then I see like, oh, that's really like 15 grand then I won't do it.

[00:04:07] Emily Thompson: Yeah. I, I love too that you're bringing in like some personal values into this.

[00:04:14] Sarah Becker: Yes.

[00:04:14] Emily Thompson: Like personal values and like intentions with where you are in your life right now.

[00:04:18] Sarah Becker: Like it's, there's no one size fits all with money because money is values.

[00:04:22] Emily Thompson: Yeah.

[00:04:22] Sarah Becker: Like that's all it is, is a tool you can trade for what's important to you.

[00:04:26] Emily Thompson: And it's like, it's more of that like constant practice of like self-awareness and mindfulness as to like, am I taking the actions now that's gonna give me what I want now versus what I am gonna want or need later.

[00:04:36] Sarah Becker: Yes.

[00:04:37] Emily Thompson: Love it. Love it. Okay. Um, let's talk about another aspect of this then too. Because, you know, at this age, I feel like I'm putting money into all kinds of hidey holes.

[00:04:49] Sarah Becker: You're just hiding it everywhere, under the mattress.

[00:04:51] Emily Thompson: Everywhere. Not, don't you dare break into my house. Look at my mattress. There is no money there. David won't let me. I'd rather put my money under my mattress. And David's like, can't do that. I know. I don't.

[00:05:04] Sarah Becker: You know, I'll say the only time I have a, a good amount of cash on me is the beginning of hurricane season. Again, in, we've had some big ones we had recently and you know, we had IDA last year and I'm so glad I had that cash because I needed to get gas and there were no, there's no, you know, I needed the cash. Anyway but I will say that, um, I used to take out two. Before each hurricane season, which was insane. Way too much money. And then around Thanksgiving I would go back to the bank and I'd be like, take it back. Um, but you know, then last year, you know, I actually was broken into and they did take that money and I was like, okay, we need to,

[00:05:39] we retake,

[00:05:39] Emily Thompson: They took $15,000 for my retirement. It just looked like $2,000 now.

[00:05:44] Sarah Becker: Literally it's filling out the police report. I was like, Ugh, it's really 15 grand.

[00:05:50] Emily Thompson: Oh my God.

[00:05:51] Sarah Becker: Don't worry. I didn't, I didn't say that though. I was very, very honest. So, you know, .

[00:05:57] Emily Thompson: But I understand the thought process, for sure.

[00:06:00] Sarah Becker: But I have a safe now. So again, if you feel like you need to have cash in your home, that's totally fine. But a safe that is bolted into your home is the way to do it. Get a fireproof one. That's what I have now, and I feel great.

[00:06:11] Emily Thompson: Well, I, I'm not even doing, I'm not even doing, I have like, sometimes I have 20 bucks in my wallet. Sometimes, like, not even always David's like, do you have any cash? I'm like, you literally cannot have my dollar.

[00:06:28] Sarah Becker: I don't know if David listens to the podcast, but I feel so bad for him. I feel like the amount of times we've talked about him per podcast is more than like per minute is more than any other podcast on Being Boss.

[00:06:37] Emily Thompson: Maybe. It's been a long time. He's getting a lot of air time with this money.

[00:06:39] He's getting a lot of air time.

[00:06:40] Sarah Becker: Okay, so sorry.

[00:06:41] Emily Thompson: He's my money guy.

[00:06:42] Sarah Becker: Yeah, so you're putting money in your hidey holes.

[00:06:43] Emily Thompson: Well, well it just, I feel like it just floats off into these little hidey holes that you don't see anymore. We're talking about retirement, we're talking about, you know, investing in, talk about a hidey hole. Let's talk about NFTs except not.

[00:06:57] Um, that's like, that's a wormhole into another dimension is what that is.

[00:07:01] Sarah Becker: Oh yeah. That's a different currency. You can't, you can't use your last American dollar to go through an NFT, they're not gonna be able take that currency, ma'am. Get with the time.

[00:07:09] Emily Thompson: Can't get gas with that. Um, let's talk about life insurance. I believe that's another one of those little hidey holes because let's say, let's say you have a finite number of resources to put into these hidey holes. Or worms or whatever they may be.

[00:07:22] Sarah Becker: Yes.

[00:07:23] Emily Thompson: We talked about, I mean, you would, would you say your Roth IRA is like number one of these like hidey holes?

[00:07:29] Sarah Becker: Okay. So I would say an emergency fund is number one. Okay. So Roth IRA would be number one for retirement. Absolutely. But I wanna make sure that you have about three months of expenses.

[00:07:38] Emily Thompson: Yep.

[00:07:38] Sarah Becker: Socked away for personal emergency. I don't want, once you put your money in your Roth IRA, it's like tata see you in a long time.

[00:07:44] Emily Thompson: Yeah.

[00:07:44] Sarah Becker: So I wanna make sure that you don't, you don't have an emergency and you need money. First step is always three months emergency fund, second step Roth IRA. Okay.

[00:07:53] Emily Thompson: Okay. Yep.

[00:07:54] Sarah Becker: Um, that's, that's what we wanna do. When it comes to life insurance, I've got a couple things to say.

[00:08:01] Emily Thompson: I look forward to hearing them.

[00:08:02] Sarah Becker: The first thing I will say is that there are a couple different types of life insurance. There's term life and there's whole life. If you work with a financial advisor and they're like, oh, well I've got some extra money and we should put it in a whole life policy, I do not recommend that.

[00:08:16] Um, I do not recommend it. I recommend a term life insurance policy, and again, only if you need it. Do you have kids or dependents? All right. Do you have a spouse that doesn't work? Like do you, you know, you can kind of change the game. Um, when it comes to life insurance, for instance, I have a small life insurance policy and basically it's like, hey, this will pay for my funeral and, you know, a year of bereavement if Barry is just like, oh, I cannot make any income for, I am so sad.

[00:08:43] Um, but you know, when Barry was working a corporate job and he was making, you know, six figures, his life insurance policy is much more. Right? Because that he, we have a son who's dependent on that money. So it really depends again, on your situation. I'll also say that another great option is that if you have a partner who works for a corporation, a lot of times they offer great term life insurance for real cheap, but they may not tell you about it.

[00:09:08] So ask and then again, only get what you need. Term life is what you wanna do. Whole life is a scam. And you can email me more if you're curious about that.

[00:09:19] Emily Thompson: Love it. Okay, so, so then number three would be some life insurance things. And I find, well, my personal philosophy on this is like if you are the boss of a business that's going to have to be dealt with.

[00:09:33] Sarah Becker: Yeah.

[00:09:34] Emily Thompson: Right? If something happens.

[00:09:35] A

[00:09:35] Sarah Becker: business is a dependent.

[00:09:36] Emily Thompson: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Um, having some so that someone is paid to deal with it and like, yes, figure it out. Find the accountant, figure it out, shut it down, figure it out. Um, having some there for that. And then also if you are a breadwinner, um, or if you bring home a significant amount of the bacon, if we can use all the food metaphors here, um, then I do think for...

[00:10:01] Sarah Becker: Food only.

[00:10:03] Emily Thompson: Yes, I, I do think that having something for yourself as, as a business owner, as an entrepreneur or the entrepreneur in your family, whatever it may be, um, I do think that a term situation there is important.

[00:10:18] Sarah Becker: It's important, and this is not, this is not necessarily like money related, but something else I really recommend doing. I have a literal, like two inch ring binder, and it's like, if. It's my, if I die binder.

[00:10:31] Emily Thompson: Oh my God.

[00:10:31] Sarah Becker: What is inside of it? Yeah. Ok. So it's, look, it's all my passwords. It's all my bank accounts. It's, we're all, it's a list of my hidey holes. Okay. It's in the safe, it's my will. So, like my partner and I, we did our wills together.

[00:10:44] We also set up a trust for our son. This is a little extra, but as you know, I've been a wedding photographer for many years, and as I'm still shooting weddings, I literally like here are five wedding photographers in New Orleans. Here's their contact information. Like this is where these weddings are gonna go if something happens.

[00:10:59] Okay. And so it's all of this stuff together and I literally wrote it as if the person reading it would know nothing about me, just in case, you know, like, I don't know what's gonna happen. Um, and I will say that that gives me a lot of peace of mind. Um, and like even like a plan for your pet, like, this might sound silly, but it's really not.

[00:11:21] I mean, I have been, you know, very lucky to foster dogs and work with rescues and understand that so many dogs end up in the foster system because their owner dies and there's just no plan. So, you know, I have a person and a designated person who will take my dog if I die, if Barry and I both die. So like, even things like that, that is all in the binder.

[00:11:41] Um, and where I want all my money to go is also, you know, in the will, in the binder.

[00:11:47] Emily Thompson: Yeah. Uh, okay. One, I need David to make one of these. If we can bring David back to this, I feel like there's been so many times that's in the past, like year or two, where I'm like, I like y'all. Kathleen has said this on the show before, if you are a long time listener, and I, I don't know, I, I don't usually. Say me too in those situations, cause I'll let Kathleen just sort of be that person. But she has said before that she couldn't even pay her own mortgage. And Me too like, I don't know. Right. Okay. So I have no idea.

[00:12:18] Sarah Becker: David needs to make you a binder so that we know how to pay the mortgage. That is huge. And you know, I'll say like, it's handy. I mean, at one point I, the binder travels with me, you know, on my person. Um, and I needed the VIN number for my car. I was not in the same state as my car. And. You know what? The VIN number is listed under my assets in my, if I die folder. That was the only place.

[00:12:39] Emily Thompson: Oh my gosh.

[00:12:39] Sarah Becker: So I mean it does come in handy. Yeah.

[00:12:42] Emily Thompson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. This is wild and amazing and um, I think I need like a sample table of contents.

[00:12:50] Sarah Becker: I was about to say, you know what, I will, Emily, I will make a checklist today or tomorrow of what should be in it. And you can put in the show notes.

[00:12:58] Emily Thompson: Perfect.

[00:12:58] Sarah Becker: Because I know that that could be kind of overwhelming and it, it'll just be like a one page checklist. Here's what you need to have.

[00:13:03] Emily Thompson: That would be amazing. Add it to add it to your resource page too. But yeah, share it over here, or it'll make sure everyone gets that.

[00:13:10] Sarah Becker: How do you think a if you die free, you would do, I don't know. I may not put that on the home page.

[00:13:15] Emily Thompson: I would check the SEO for that. What is the, what is the search volume for the for an if i die folder?

[00:13:21] Sarah Becker: Yeah. It's like you wanna be a prepared. Yeah. Which is what we wanna be prepared. And I also think too, I started this at the beginning of Covid when I was like, and it started as what happens if I get Covid? Yeah, it was like, what happens if I'm incapacitated for a while and like decisions have to be made.

[00:13:36] So it didn't start out as morbidly as it ended up, but God, I'm so prepared now.

[00:13:40] Emily Thompson: No, I mean, I'll go at it morbidly like what if, if David were to die tomorrow where, who, who is my utility provider?

[00:13:49] Sarah Becker: Right, right. Emily, you'll be dealing with enough to not have electricity. We need to make sure that your power is on.

[00:13:54] Emily Thompson: Every time I joke about that and it's not a joke, but every time I say something to you, he's like, he's like, it's on autopay.

[00:13:58] You'll be fine, it's on auto pay.

[00:14:01] Sarah Becker: Until the credit card expires. You'll be fine.

[00:14:03] Emily Thompson: I know, but like, okay, but where is the bank account that is autopay from, I don't need, I mean, I could figure it out, y'all. I'm not totally helpless or useless.

[00:14:13] Sarah Becker: I know, but I mean, but I think it's important. Cause what you're saying, it's probably 80% of couples.

[00:14:18] Emily Thompson: Yeah.

[00:14:18] Sarah Becker: There's a designated money person. Yeah. That's totally okay. We're dividing and conquering life. Right. But like to have all those resources. It's important. Yeah.

[00:14:28] Emily Thompson: I order the groceries. He pays the bills, and I get it.

[00:14:31] Sarah Becker: Oh, don't worry. I know you're doing plenty.

[00:14:33] Emily Thompson: But I don't, I don't know how to pay my bills. Y'all .

[00:14:36] Sarah Becker: Yeah, and if something were to happen to you, David's like, I know where the grocery store is, so I can figure that out. You know, like you might need a little more help and that's okay.

[00:14:43] Emily Thompson: The things they'd be eating. They'd live off pizza rolls and Mac and cheese. Y'all think I'm joking?

[00:14:50] Sarah Becker: I mean, that's what I would like. That's what I would like to do too. But like every couple days Barry's like, I'm making you a salad. And he just brings it down to my little office and hands it to me with a fork and I just eat my rabbit food.

[00:15:01] Emily Thompson: Eat real food. Eat real food. Okay, perfect. Is there anything else we need to touch on in regards to setting up a retirement plan or whatever for bosses.

[00:15:17] Sarah Becker: Yes, yes. Okay. Look, I, I just wanna reiterate that it is gate keep, it is over complicated. Like your retirement plan can literally be, I'm gonna max out my Roth IRA, I'm gonna work my way up to maxing it out. And then once I have been able to max out for a couple years, then I'll open an independent 401k.

[00:15:34] That can literally be it. I mean, this is something I do all day, every day, and that's my retirement plan cuz it's an excellent one. It's boring and it's amazing. Um, and yeah, don't keep perfection. Don't let perfection and keep you from getting started.

[00:15:46] Emily Thompson: Yeah. Agreed with that. Yeah. Um, and let the money person your life.

[00:15:52] Do it for you if you need to. Yeah. But also do it yourself. I mean, I love the idea of I, man, I would love for a couple hundred bosses to tweet me and be like, I did it. I opened a Roth IRA today.

[00:16:03] Sarah Becker: I would, I would cry.

[00:16:04] Emily Thompson: I would too.

[00:16:05] Sarah Becker: I like tears of joy. I would be. So, so, so, so, so happy. It's the best gift you can give future you.

[00:16:10] Emily Thompson: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. And then, then whenever you do retire or what did you call it? Work optional.

[00:16:18] Sarah Becker: Work Optional, yeah. Cause you know the thing is yeah, I might want retirement again. Sounds like the man. Yeah. Just like my Roth IRA. And I don't love that. Like I wanna be work optional because I wanna be like, you know what, I'm gonna take this six months trip and it doesn't matter cuz it's optional for me to work.

[00:16:33] Emily Thompson: Yeah.

[00:16:34] Sarah Becker: But I probably will still be creative. You know, like one day I wanna write a book, like I wanna learn how to garden. Like to me, retirement is not, you know, what you see in movies where like the guy gets in his La-Z-Boy and that's it.

[00:16:48] Emily Thompson: Yeah. No. I mean,

[00:16:50] Sarah Becker: That's not what we want. I mean, if that's your dream, I will supported it, but it's probably not.

[00:16:55] Emily Thompson: I feel like no one listening to this will identify with that vision. For sure.

[00:16:59] Sarah Becker: My target audience is not interested in that.

[00:17:02] Emily Thompson: They're, I mean, a couple of us, us hear that.

[00:17:07] Sarah Becker: You say that, I don't think, I don't think you'd make it a month in the La-Z-Boy.

[00:17:12] Emily Thompson: I would make it a month.

[00:17:13] Sarah Becker: I don't think you would. No. I'm gonna bet on it now.

[00:17:15] Now I kinda wanna put you like as an art experiment where you're like in a storefront, in a La-Z-Boy and everyone's watching

[00:17:21] Emily Thompson: you. Let's see how long Emily lasts. We can take bets that can go towards my retirement as well. Um, we could do a whole thing.

[00:17:28] Sarah Becker: That's a very creative way to save to retirement.

[00:17:29] Emily Thompson: Isn't it?

[00:17:30] Sarah Becker: I approve.

[00:17:31] Emily Thompson: Yeah. Then I think we just defined everyone, my first creative project post retirement.

[00:17:38] Sarah Becker: Oh, I love it. I love it so much.

[00:17:40] Emily Thompson: It's a test of personal will and a recalling to this conversation. Cause I do, there's a little part of me that's like, I hope those of you who are starting your Roth IRA today, one, let me know. High five.

[00:17:51] Sarah Becker: Yeah.

[00:17:51] Emily Thompson: Two, you're gonna remember me and Sarah in this conversation and, you know, 10, 20, 30 years, uh, when you were having your first work, optional day or whatever and it's gonna be totally magical.

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[00:19:57] Okay. There is like another thing that I wanna talk about that I'm wondering how much you have considered this, and I look forward to sharing how much I consider this because this is literally all the time and I feel like a lot of bosses, oh, are going to be maybe thinking about this as well, and that is using your business as a retirement plan.

[00:20:19] Sarah Becker: Like selling your business?

[00:20:20] Emily Thompson: Like selling your business as a retirement. So you talked about real estate investment, I think that's probably like the closest parallel.

[00:20:26] Sarah Becker: Yes.

[00:20:27] Emily Thompson: Um, but how much do you think slash talk about that and then I'll go next.

[00:20:32] Sarah Becker: Okay, great. This is gonna be mostly on you and I will tell you why.

[00:20:35] Emily Thompson: Okay.

[00:20:35] Sarah Becker: I am so conservative when it comes to finances that I couldn't, in my mind, it's hard for me to bank on this one thing. It doesn't mean that your one thing isn't amazing. Okay. But let's say, and what you're thinking about, and again, you're about to tell us, let's say you're like, oh, Being Boss, it is top 0.0001% of podcasts.

[00:20:58] I could sell this podcast, I've built this audience. You know, what if in 15 years podcasts aren't a thing because we're watching holograms instead. Okay. Like what?

[00:21:06] Emily Thompson: Y'all can see me and hologram is dancing around in your dashboard, in your car on road trips. It'll be great.

[00:21:12] Sarah Becker: Yeah, exactly. And I will also say that like, I like your retail business.

[00:21:17] Like what? What a great thing to sell that to me. I would absolutely consider that as part of a retirement plan, but for a service based business, because people are purchasing you and your expertise. I have seen people try to sell or pivot. I have seen a lot of people not do it the way they really wanted it to go.

[00:21:34] So I would just say, it would be an amazing bonus, but not make it the meat of your financial retirement plan. It's like the, it's the colslaw , it's the potatoes. You know, it'd be great if it happened, but you could live without it.

[00:21:47] Emily Thompson: Sure. Um, I cannot live without potatoes.

[00:21:50] Sarah Becker: Potatoes, La-Z-Boy. I'm like really learning a lot about you.

[00:21:54] I thought there was... Yeah. I'm gonna have to write this down.

[00:21:56] Emily Thompson: You, y'all are all getting a picture painted of me that y'all did not anticipate.

[00:21:59] Sarah Becker: We weren't expecting. But tell me, I would love to hear kind of what you and David think about. I mean, you had, well, first of all, you had Indie for a long time. Yeah. Like, did you sell that or did you close it?

[00:22:11] Emily Thompson: No, I did. So I did sell my first business back in the day room, remember that tanning salon in Mobile that I've shared a couple of times around here.

[00:22:17] Sarah Becker: Oh my gosh, when you just said that, just like a flood of memories. Not that I ever went clearly to a tanning salon, but I remember you telling me about it. Yes.

[00:22:28] Emily Thompson: Indeed. So I did, I sold my first business. Um, so like my first foray into business was that kind of scenario. Yeah. So it's easy for me to not only imagine it, but almost think about it. Not quite first, but I'm thinking about it for sure.

[00:22:43] Sarah Becker: Well, yeah, it was your first experience. Yeah.

[00:22:45] Emily Thompson: Yes. Was buying, running, and then selling a business. So I didn't even start it. I just ran it. Amazing. And then sold it. Um, so was that. When it came to Indie, I did package it up and pitch it to a couple of folks that I thought might be interested in buying it, and when it came down to it, things got a little, actually what happened, and I talk about this in the episode.

[00:23:09] I talk about this in a recent episode that it was somebody, and I can't remember who. So this will be on the Being Boss team to figure that out. It'll be in the show notes, whichever episode and conversation this was. Um, but I was talking to someone about how, um, oh, it was Corey. It was Corey in the quitting episode that happened at some point around this one.

[00:23:28] Look back in your, in your feed. Um, I ended up having to quit that business. Finally made that final straw decision because the website platform that I had built my websites on was going out of business. It was going under and so, or actually it was a project that was being pulled, cuz it was, it was an Adobe arm that they just like cut off.

[00:23:50] So then there wasn't really anything to sell other than a client list. And really then I could just make referrals, so.

[00:23:57] Sarah Becker: Right.

[00:23:57] Emily Thompson: I actually got the rug pulled out from under me and that little, and that little Diddy that I was going for there. Um, and Being Boss, that was not something that we started this company thinking by any means.

[00:24:09] Sarah Becker: Right.

[00:24:09] Emily Thompson: Right. Like, we weren't even thinking about making money with this.

[00:24:12] Sarah Becker: I was gonna say about starting when you started, right? Yes.

[00:24:15] Emily Thompson: It was a passion project.

[00:24:17] Sarah Becker: Yes. It was a slightly monetized friendship.

[00:24:20] Emily Thompson: It was, it was a, it was a media-ized friendship.

[00:24:23] Sarah Becker: Yes.

[00:24:23] Emily Thompson: That ended up becoming monetized. Yes. Um, that we weren't even really thinking about making money on it as the thing.

[00:24:30] And so, but I do think often about like these assets and you know, what their value are or could be to other people. And you know, there's nothing, there's nothing happening around that. But I do think about it like,

[00:24:43] Sarah Becker: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:44] Emily Thompson: When I'm done podcasting, if that ever happens, does this just cease to exist? Or do I start thinking about what it looks like to pass the torch to another?

[00:24:54] Sarah Becker: Right.

[00:24:55] Emily Thompson: And that's something that I've legitimately thought about quite a bit over the past couple of years, especially since buying Kathleen out. Cause there was that sort of transaction that happened.

[00:25:04] Sarah Becker: Yeah.

[00:25:04] Emily Thompson: It's like what would it look like for someone to buy me out of this thing? And for Being Boss to become like this other thing. That one's a little more watery.

[00:25:12] And what feels really watery is online business is a hard thing to valuate because there aren't tangible assets that have clear and obvious value. And this is something, this is a conversation that I've had with several people, especially people who are asking me, why am I doing Being Boss and Almanac?

[00:25:35] Like, why would you do the thing? And a couple of years ago I got, you know, you've all heard the story of like, we were tired of talking about doing the business of podcasting on the podcast, but there was more than just that reason. Like I didn't just start a product business because I was tired of talking about podcasting, like,

[00:25:49] Sarah Becker: Right. That's not how it works.

[00:25:51] Emily Thompson: That's lame. That's not how it works. Yeah. Um, I was thinking about putting all of my effort into building something and kind of having nothing to show for it.

[00:26:01] Mm-hmm.

[00:26:02] Which is, uh, something that I don't think a lot of bosses are consciously thinking about, but it is a sentiment that I hear a lot of bosses sharing.

[00:26:10] Sarah Becker: Yes.

[00:26:11] Emily Thompson: Like, what is this blog body of work and what is its value at the end of the day?

[00:26:17] Sarah Becker: Yeah.

[00:26:18] Emily Thompson: Um, or whatever it may be. And so that's something that I was very conscious of, that I've been very conscious of along the way and is one of the biggest reasons why I wanted to do Almanac, um, in the way that I wanted to do it, because I wanted to build legitimately valuable assets that if in the future I wanted to turn around and sell to another, there wouldn't be this quandary of like, what is the value of an rss?

[00:26:45] Right. Who knows? Um, so it is something that I've thought about a whole lot and is part of the strategy, and I'm not envisioning selling Almanac at any point. I would love it if my child would grow into Almanac's like second generation. I also know that there's like some stat were very rarely do businesses make it beyond the third generation.

[00:27:08] So like, I'm not even trying to build a multi-generational business for the purpose of just doing that for shits and giggles. Um, but I am very consciously building almanac with like the clearest path of exit being that's my retirement plan.

[00:27:24] Sarah Becker: Yeah.

[00:27:24] Emily Thompson: Of let's say in 20 years someone wants to come pick up all the that for a couple million because even at this point, I think the valuation is over a million easily.

[00:27:33] Sarah Becker: Yeah.

[00:27:35] Emily Thompson: That I think about that. So like I could sell it now and just retire live off my $40,000 a year.

[00:27:41] Sarah Becker: I mean, yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:43] Emily Thompson: Could totally do it. But I'm done yet. Right. I still have some things that I want to do and I want to continue doing it, but I am very much so imagining or building business in a way that that is part of my retirement plan, as well as maxing out my IRA every year.

[00:27:58] Sarah Becker: I think that's so smart. And Emily, I think it was so smart that you understand that the valuation of an online business is so tricky. But a physical business. I mean, we have been building them, selling them for, again, generations, hundreds of years, Centuries.

[00:28:12] Emily Thompson: Yeah.

[00:28:12] Sarah Becker: So that was such a smart pivot

[00:28:14] for you because it is such a tangible thing that people can purchase and I think that that, you know, makes your chances of using that for your retirement.

[00:28:23] It's just so much greater than an online business for better worse..

[00:28:26] Emily Thompson: Yeah. And it's, it's one of the things where people will often talk or like, ask me about like the pros and cons of online versus offline. Right. And. Infinite, basically. Right? Both pros and cons. And there's a lot of gray area between the two of like, depending on the type of person or type of business, a pro can be a con and vice versa.

[00:28:44] Sarah Becker: Yeah.

[00:28:44] Emily Thompson: Um, but I do think that, you know, there's the pro of online business of that. It's easier, like, and if you're sitting here going, oh, it's so hard. Uh, yes. But it's also easy compared to all the alternatives or the alternative of really just focusing on in person. Or like, you know, I don't know all the, all the pieces of that.

[00:29:05] I can get really bent outta shape when someone's like, oh, online business is so hard. I'm like, yeah, go rent some space and try to sell IRL customers. Okay.

[00:29:15] Sarah Becker: Right, right.

[00:29:16] Emily Thompson: But there is, for the pro, an online business of it's easier to make money now, I think the con is that it's harder to cash in on. And sell it at the end. So like you build the thing.

[00:29:35] Yeah.

[00:29:35] And then you end up having just like close it down cuz it's over. And if you're building a personal brand, God bless you when you're done, it's done for the most part. I mean there are, like, there are, I've definitely seen places where this is not necessarily the case. Um, but that's kind of how personal brands work, whereas, doing physical business is, can be significantly harder.

[00:30:02] There is a cash out at the end of it. Um, that is something that I'm working for. So I just wanna touch on that because I don't think a lot of people think about that. I also believe that you have to start, or very early on in growing and building a business, do you have to plan on that sort of exit?

[00:30:21] Because if you do it, like even if you are not imagining the exit for 20, 30 years. You have to start it very early with that exit in mind and then you do have the ability to more easily cash out or you have the ability to cash out if you keep it in mind from the very beginning as you're growing and building a business.

[00:30:41] And so for me, I'm not doing crypto. David did. David bought like a Bitcoin. One for shits and giggles a couple of months ago, like when it was at its highest he bought one.

[00:30:52] Sarah Becker: Of course, yes, yes, yes.

[00:30:55] Emily Thompson: Right. And I'm not doing NFTs, but I am absolutely using my business as my retirement plan a hundred percent.

[00:31:02] Sarah Becker: I love that. I love that so much. And I just can't wait to see how that journey continues because Almanac you know, I feel like it started and you were like in your kitchen and selling things online and then it became this amazing brick and mortar and now you have an even better space. And just the, again, that evolution and even so strategic in order for it to value high enough to think about for your retirement.

[00:31:23] And that's huge. And that's, that's such a great point. I love that.

[00:31:27] Emily Thompson: Yeah, it's just, it's just something I wanted to add to the mix because yes too all the things y'all get yourself a ROTH IRA. Yeah. Asap.

[00:31:36] Sarah Becker: Diversification different. Yes, and I mean, it's similar to the guest house that I co-own in New Orleans, and we're starting to talk about selling it now, and it will be selling the building, but also the business that we've built over the last five years, renting it out.

[00:31:50] So again, I'm, and I will absolutely do like some kind of deep dive situation on that with all the nitty gritty numbers once it's done. I, I, cause I just have no idea.

[00:32:01] Emily Thompson: I'm fascinated by that.

[00:32:02] Sarah Becker: Yeah. I have no idea what's gonna come of it, so I can't wait. But again, I was just too scared to ever, I'm not counting on that money at all.

[00:32:10] It's gonna come. So I'm curious to see how much it is when it does, and I'll definitely tell you.

[00:32:15] Emily Thompson: Well, and I, I love that sort of, that layer of you do have investments like this real estate project

[00:32:23] Sarah Becker: Yes.

[00:32:23] Emily Thompson: That you're not even factoring in, like, because that's like the hidey hole. Right. You put that in hidey hole, you've forgotten about it. It'll come back to you at some point, and that's great. But I love that that's where that diversification piece comes in. And, and I think what I also wanna illustrate this is we, you know, begin wrapping what I do believe is gonna be a two parter high five. Um, is that your retirement plan or your retirement strategy is that, is it the, is your retirement plan what you are doing now or is that later? Like what does that term actually refer to.

[00:33:04] Sarah Becker: Y know, that's, that's a great, that's a great question. I guess when I talk about retirement plan, I see a plan as a strategy.

[00:33:10] Emily Thompson: Okay. So it's what you're doing.

[00:33:11] Sarah Becker: My retirement plan is also like, 401k.

[00:33:14] So you know, yeah, that's, that's a tricky one.

[00:33:17] Emily Thompson: Okay. That is. So if your retirement plan can look like whatever you want, we've laid out a whole myriad of options here of things that you need to be thinking about, some things you definitely need to be doing, some things that you can be playing around with, some opportunities you have as business owners.

[00:33:33] Also, backup plans equals life insurace. In case you don't make it to retirement. as needed. Um, yeah. But it can look like whatever you want it to based on the resources that you have available to you.

[00:33:46] Sarah Becker: Yeah.

[00:33:46] Emily Thompson: Um, the things that you're interested in playing with or never playing. Um, and. Just kind of what you wanna do and what you want that like post-retirement life situation to look like and the age at which you want to be work optional.

[00:34:01] Sarah Becker: Work optional. Yeah. And you know something Emily, we didn't touch on that, I'm just gonna like throw in at the end. Yeah. Like a little spice in our gumbo, so to speak.

[00:34:08] Emily Thompson: Yep. Yep.

[00:34:09] Sarah Becker: Is that a lot of people will inherit. It may not be a large amount, it may, you know, it could be five grand, it could be 50 grand.

[00:34:20] People ask me a lot of times, like, how much, what, what should my plan be for this money that I plan to inherit? And my biggest response to that is never count on money that you're inheriting, because you never know what can happen to the person who's inheriting it or who's, you know, giving it to you rather.

[00:34:35] Emily Thompson: Yeah.

[00:34:36] Sarah Becker: Um, A lot of times, I mean, I hope that I leave stuff to my kid. I'm definitely planning to leave him money. So that's also another interesting thing that a lot of times we don't talk about in families. Like I'm fortunate that my parents and I, we have discussed it, so like I, I understand like how much money is there, what do they want me to do with it when they're gone.

[00:34:57] And having those conversations within your family or close friends, if you're in that kind of, you know, dynamic is also really important.

[00:35:05] Emily Thompson: Mm. Love that. Indeed. Don't count on that. I think you baked your plan like that is also just anti boss right there. Like counting on someone else to maybe leave you some cash.

[00:35:16] Sarah Becker: Right?

[00:35:16] Emily Thompson: You take matters into your own hands and that can be an unexpected extra if and when happens.

[00:35:23] Sarah Becker: Yes, absolutely. And you know, again, thinking about what could come to you, I think also is a good exercise and what you wanna. Others because you know, we're leaving money to our son, but also just some organizations that we really believe in.

[00:35:34] I think that that can really make retirement exciting too because yeah, being able to be at a point where you can give money to something you're passionate about is just, it's what boss's dream of, right?

[00:35:44] Emily Thompson: Yeah, for sure. I remember back in the day, I wanted to give to, I like had this vision of starting a, um, oh my God, what is it even called?

[00:35:55] Like. You know when you go to school and they pay for it. What is that called?

[00:35:59] Sarah Becker: A scholarship?

[00:36:00] Emily Thompson: Yes, A scholarship fund. Um, now I'm like, uh, I don't think I'll do that.

[00:36:05] Sarah Becker: Yeah. Now we're like, is school real? Like, is this necessary? Yeah,

[00:36:09] Emily Thompson: yeah, yeah. I'm like, Ugh, probably not what I'm gonna do now, but yes, absolutely to that you can start thinking about those things and you sort of reach this place where, where if you know you're good, okay, actually here's a really great mindset, chef, that I think doing these retirement things offers to a boss is that if you are in this cycle of not knowing where your next dollar is going to come from.

[00:36:29] Sarah Becker: Yeah.

[00:36:29] Emily Thompson: Right. Or like, you know, not sure what's happening in your business or what's happening in the market, or whatever it may be. Like I get that feeling. I live in that feeling with the rest of you all.

[00:36:38] Sarah Becker: Yes.

[00:36:38] Emily Thompson: Right. Of just like, you just never know what's going to happen. And also that's a con of online business, this world.

[00:36:44] Sarah Becker: Right.

[00:36:44] Emily Thompson: Evolves so quickly all the time. Whereas guess what, retail happens in the exact same way that it kind of always did. And I love that .

[00:36:52] Sarah Becker: Yeah. Yeah. And you, you're diversified, you've got, you got both.

[00:36:56] Emily Thompson: Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. Intentional, everybody. Um, but, um, if you are just tired of feeling that, like unknowing, that like lack of clarity and understanding and expectation, all those things. Save for retirement.

[00:37:12] Sarah Becker: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:12] Emily Thompson: because you may not know where your money's gonna come from for the next like 10, 20 years, but you know where it's gonna come from when you're 65.

[00:37:20] You're taking care of that right now.

[00:37:22] Sarah Becker: Yeah.

[00:37:22] Emily Thompson: And so you'll be able to put yourself in a place where you don't have to worry on that level if you start doing it now.

[00:37:28] Sarah Becker: Love it. Totally agree. Mm snaps for that.

[00:37:32] Emily Thompson: Thanks, Sarah. This has been a treat. It always is.

[00:37:34] Sarah Becker: Can't wait to see you in person soon. We probably won't talk about retirement, but you know, if we do we'll, let you know.

[00:37:39] Emily Thompson: But we might,

[00:37:39] Sarah Becker: we might, who knows,

[00:37:40] Emily Thompson: we might, if David's there, he might actually tell you all

[00:37:42] the things that I cannot tell you because I don't even know. I, I just know that we're doing it.

[00:37:47] Sarah Becker: Amazing.

[00:37:47] Emily Thompson: Um, perfect. If this has been a treat, thank you so much. In coming and talking about this, like, it's not even a taboo subject.

[00:37:55] It's just like that gate keeping comment or like, The name for it, I guess is very accurate. Yeah. Um, but thank you for coming and talking about this sort of scary thing.

[00:38:07] Sarah Becker: Absolutely.

[00:38:08] Emily Thompson: In a way that I hope you guys got a giggle or two outta it. And otherwise a cake in your pants that goes off that Roth IRA, you all have homework, so thank you.

[00:38:19] Awesome. Okay. Tell everyone where they can find more about you and what you do. Absolutely. So

[00:38:26] Sarah Becker: you can find me on Instagram. I'm @beckertalksmoney. You can shoot me an email hello@beckertalksmoney.com. My website is beckertalksmoney.com. And if you want that retirement 1 0 1 guide where I lay all this out for you step by step, you can find that at beckertalksmoney.com/resources

[00:38:43] Emily Thompson: perfect. And some of the things that we talked about today will definitely be in the show notes at beingboss.club as well. And then my last question for you dear friend, and you have to give me a different answer this time, Ooh, is what's making you feel most boss?

[00:38:58] Sarah Becker: Oh my gosh. I was so prepared. I was so prepared last time.

[00:39:02] Let's see what is different in my life over the last four weeks. Okay. I'll tell you this, I'll tell you this. What is making me feel most boss right now is that we, I recently tallied up every, every penny it cost to make this Vermont house happen and pay for all these updates that we really needed to do.

[00:39:23] Like for those of you who may not have listened to the episode I was on recently, we bought a home. That had tons of deferred maintenance, had never been lived in for 45 years. Um, and it was over $40,000. And my first thought was, I will be sick. And then my second thought was, I paid for all of that. We paid for it on our own cash.

[00:39:40] And that just felt so freaking good. And it is, this is like a goal we've had for so, so, so long. And so I just wanna encourage anyone, if you have a goal that just seems like you can't do it. Like just break it down even further, step by, step it out. This was a year's long process, but we made it and I just feel so motivated to like keep making big goals because yeah, I now I know what it's like to achieve them and damn it feels good.

[00:40:03] It feels boss.

[00:40:05] Emily Thompson: Yeah. I also just want to point out to everyone listening to this, and especially anyone in the community who's heard me say this, um, heard me sort of preach this, chant this as it may be, um, is that this like bossness and this clarity and this excitement about this thing from Sarah all comes because she knows her numbers.

[00:40:23] Sarah Becker: Oh, yeah. Yep.

[00:40:24] Emily Thompson: Mm-hmm. Like down to the penny and a little weirdly.

[00:40:27] Sarah Becker: Love it. Yeah. You know you don't, yeah, don't. Emily doesn't want you to become as weird as me. You know, there's the spectrum.

[00:40:32] Emily Thompson: I wouldn't mind it. Sarah, you are a beautiful, kind of weird, and I love it.

[00:40:36] Sarah Becker: Thank you, thank you.

[00:40:40] Emily Thompson: So much for coming and having this chat with me. This has been a treat.

[00:40:43] Sarah Becker: All right. Bye you guys.

[00:40:46] Emily Thompson: All right, boss, because you're here, I know you want to be a better creative business owner, which means I've got something for you each week. The team at Being Boss is scouring the news, the best entrepreneurial publications and updates and releases of the apps and tools that run our businesses, and is curating it all into a weekly email that delivers the must know tips and tactics in the realms of mindset, money, and productivity.

[00:41:10] This email is called Brewed.. We brew it up for you each week to give you the insight you need to make decisions and move forward in your creative business. Check it out now and sign up for yourself beingboss.club/brewed. That's beingboss.club/brewed Now, until next time, do the work. Be boss.