[00:00:00] Emily Thompson: Welcome to Being Boss, a podcast for creatives, business owners and entrepreneurs who want to take control of their work and live life on their own terms. I'm your host, Emily Thompson, and in this episode I'm joined by Corey from the Being Boss team to have a chat about knowing when to quit and if quitting is even real.
[00:00:20] You can find all the tools, books, and links we reference on the show notes www.beingboss.club. And if you like this episode, be sure to subscribe to this show and share us with a friend.
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[00:01:34] All right, Corey, now that we have our mics figured out, because we did just have a whole moment about that and everyone was fine this entire time, how are you doing? And so, so glad you're back.
[00:01:45] Corey Winter: You know what? I'm good. And I'm so good because to wrap up a storyline, an ongoing storyline, you actually got me my name tag for my birthday back in June, and it's actually not a name tag, it's actually like a name plate for my desk.
[00:02:00] And it has my name on it, obviously, but then underneath my little, my little title says, Professional Nerd.
[00:02:06] Emily Thompson: Yeah. And you need, Oh, yep. Go.
[00:02:09] Corey Winter: And now I was just gonna say, This actually is gonna tie into this episode today because I was persistent and not quitting about asking for this name tag for like over a year.
[00:02:21] When I start something, I don't quit until I get what I want.
[00:02:25] Emily Thompson: Isn't that the truth? Isn't that the truth? Well, you should definitely know that a lot of thought went into that name tag in both the style and design as well as your, um, professional nerdiness.
[00:02:39] Corey Winter: I look it right every day. It's sitting right in front of my, my computer, so I see it every time.
[00:02:43] Emily Thompson: I love that for you, . I love it indeed. Persistent AF. That's Corey's middle name. That's a weird name, Corey.
[00:02:54] Corey Winter: I like it. I'm gonna change it officially, legally. Yep.
[00:02:57] Emily Thompson: Perfect. Let me know and I'll change it on our bookkeeping . Um, perfect. I am excited about this chat today. It's funny, every now and then we'll, you know, schedule out a batch of episodes and I'll ask the team like, what, what do I need to talk about?
[00:03:09] What haven't we talked about in a while? What, what have you guys been seeing in the Being Boss Community perhaps, or. You know, what sort of topics are out there in the ether that we need to bring into the Being Boss universe? And I don't remember who it was. Maybe Meri, thats who's gonna get the credit for this one.
[00:03:26] I don't know. Um, said something about, uh, wanting to hear a, uh, an episode about knowing when to quit, and Corey was like, Well, I want in on that one. And I was like, Well, that's weird why . Why does this one make you so excited. So let's start there. Why are you so excited about having a conversation about quitting?
[00:03:43] Corey Winter: So my reasoning is threefold, at least twofold. There might be twofold, but possibly three.
[00:03:49] Emily Thompson: Okay.
[00:03:49] Corey Winter: And the first one is that, I have this, not even a mantra, it's like some kind of deep down thing. If I start something I have to see it through. Whether it ends up failing or ends up being a success or whatever, I have to see it all the way through to the end.
[00:04:08] This is like with work with personal life. When I decided to start my Lego City hobby. I went all in and I could not, I couldn't, I, I had to buy all of the things because as soon as I decided that I wanted to start it, I could not stop.
[00:04:25] Emily Thompson: You couldn't have started with like a little Lego village or like a Lego neighborhood.
[00:04:29] Corey Winter: That's what my dad wanted me to do for financial reasons, but no and like every time I went outside and I saw my flower bed needed help, I, I, I put it in my mind. I could. Stop thinking about it until I went and did it. Yeah. So as soon as I put something in my mind, I cannot quit it. Actually, this ties into the second thing.
[00:04:51] Every single job I've ever had, I actually still have, if you really think about it. Like the first paying gig I ever had with teaching all the way back 12 years ago, I still have that teaching gig. My first paying website development job with Indieshopography. Technically that job doesn't exist anymore, but it kind of like morphed into Being Boss.
[00:05:15] I have never, I, every single job I have, I just pile on top of it. Cause I can't actually quit a job to take over a new one. So that's two things. I don't know what the third thing is. Oh, the third thing is that I have decided that I have kind of officially stepped back from my, my self-employment gig To only focus on Biddy Tarot and Being Boss.
[00:05:39] So I guess technically I am becoming a quitter, which is very new for me.
[00:05:44] Emily Thompson: You're finally quitting?
[00:05:45] Corey Winter: Yeah.
[00:05:46] Emily Thompson: For the first time. How does that feel?
[00:05:48] Corey Winter: Um, I have not decided yet.
[00:05:51] Emily Thompson: Okay. Okay. No feelings just happen. You don't really decide them.
[00:05:57] Corey Winter: It's all still playing out, so it's, it's still a fresh decision.
[00:06:01] Emily Thompson: Okay.
[00:06:01] Corey Winter: But I don't know, it feels a little. A little stressful cause yet again, I don't like quitting things, but I know that it's the right decision because I cannot focus on that anymore with everything else I have going on.
[00:06:15] Emily Thompson: Yeah. Okay.
[00:06:18] Corey Winter: So I have, I have a complex relationship with quitting .
[00:06:21] Emily Thompson: Indeed. I see why you are so excited about coming to have this chat.
[00:06:25] For sure. And as you say, all those things like, Yeah, yeah, I see that And you Corey for sure. There's definitely been some things that at, you know, Indie or Being Boss that we've like wanted to test out that you just don't want to quit. I'm like, No, Corey, we tested it. Now we're not gonna do it no more. You're like, But can we still?
[00:06:41] And I'm like, But no.
[00:06:43] Corey Winter: Test and change and then keep changing.
[00:06:45] Emily Thompson: Test and change, but let's just not change it yet. Okay. Um. I think my relationship with quitting is the exact opposite. I love to quit things.
[00:06:53] Corey Winter: Yeah.
[00:06:54] Emily Thompson: Love it. And quitting all over the place. Test and change. Test and change. Test and change. Not married to anything.
[00:06:59] No expectations, et cetera, et cetera. Um, so this should make for a really interesting conversation. I'm excited to see where this goes, um, because that is what we're talking about today. Quitting. We talk a lot around here about starting things, starting businesses, starting passion projects, starting side gigs starting.
[00:07:20] You know, what else do we start?
[00:07:25] Corey Winter: Everything starts.
[00:07:26] Emily Thompson: New habits.
[00:07:27] Corey Winter: Everything as a beginning.
[00:07:27] Emily Thompson: Right. Any, We talk a lot about starving everybody. Yes. But today we're gonna talk about quitting. This came up because I think, Cause I think this is the context from which this suggestion came. Is that we're sort of in a little circle of folks and not like in the being boss community, but I think more in like local business where we're seeing a lot of local businesses close.
[00:07:52] This has been something that I've witnessed a lot in Chattanooga. Um, we're witnessing it a lot. Kind of everywhere. I think all those, all the like pre pandemic businesses that like are just at the end of their ropes, are at the end of their ropes. There's a lot of pandemic businesses that started that are not really well acqui, uh, well equipped to exist in the real world or like post pandemic times or weren't thought out enough to survive much longer than a little bit.
[00:08:22] I remember a couple of, I actually went back into my Twitter the other day cuz I knew I had tweeted about this at some point and I couldn't remember when. So I tweeted about, uh, all of the house plant businesses that were starting in Chattanooga. Because there were a lot with them.
[00:08:41] Corey Winter: Oh, okay.
[00:08:42] Emily Thompson: Yes. There were a lot that popped up within just a couple of weeks of each other, and it was right in the middle of the pandemic.
[00:08:48] And I remember thinking, Oh, this is like gonna be a short-lived trend. And my tweet was something like, I wonder how long all these cute little house plant businesses are gonna last well, in July, over half of them closed down within like two weeks of each other.
[00:09:04] Corey Winter: Were you keeping track of them?
[00:09:06] Emily Thompson: No, no.
[00:09:07] I just exist in the world.
[00:09:09] Corey Winter: Okay.
[00:09:09] Emily Thompson: And hear things along the way. And, um, and I was like, Okay. Called it like that wasn't going to last very long. Every like, I, I love people, you know, pursuing their passions and doing the things and I'm not, I'm not happy to see any business failing, but that. That was just an interesting trend for some people to follow and so I've seen a lot of people quitting lately and honestly, I kind of love it and not, I don't love seeing people quitting.
[00:09:38] I love seeing people quitting. Does that make sense?
[00:09:43] Corey Winter: You like seeing people make decisions that open up new possibilities?
[00:09:48] Emily Thompson: Absolutely. That, absolutely that, because I think the reality of things is that doing business in the world is different now than it was one year ago, two years ago, three years ago, five years ago, 20 years ago.
[00:10:04] It's just different. And I think the circumstances under which most of us started the careers or the businesses or the passion projects or whatever it is, the conditions under which we started, those things are not the same as they are now. And I'm seeing a lot of people bring up this idea of quitting the thing because the market is different or they are different, their lives are different, whatever.
[00:10:27] And there's a lot of, there's a lot of feelings that come up around quitting. That I want to dive into today.
[00:10:37] Corey Winter: Quitting does not necessarily have to be a bad thing, which I think is gonna be a big talking point today that quitting maybe is not something you choose to do, but kinda like in my case, it's just something that just kind of happens because something else has come along.
[00:10:52] Emily Thompson: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's, that's kinda where I wanna start with this sort of question of, is there really such a thing as quittting. Like really, Really?
[00:11:04] Corey Winter: Yes. Next.
[00:11:05] Emily Thompson: Okay, fine. That one's easy. Yes. I think there is quitting, but I think that quitting has become an umbrella term for a couple of different things.
[00:11:18] And there is such a thing as just like quitting the thing and saying fuck it, and moving on with your life, whatever. But then moving on with your life is the magic part there.
[00:11:26] Corey Winter: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:26] Emily Thompson: Because what I actually think, what a lot of people are, where they are at is actually at a pivot, and sometimes big pivots can feel like quitting, whereas what you're really doing is just deciding to stop putting your energy into something so you can put it into something else.
[00:11:46] And so you're not a quitter, you're just. Choosing a different path.
[00:11:52] Corey Winter: Case in point would be the transition from Indie Shopography to being Boss slash Almanac.
[00:11:59] Emily Thompson: Yeah.
[00:11:59] Corey Winter: Where we never really quit doing Indie Shopography in our website stuff. It's just Being Boss became such a big project within the Indie Shopography umbrella that when Being Boss kind of became more successful, we had less and less time for Indie Shopography to it just fizzled out.
[00:12:17] Emily Thompson: Yeah.
[00:12:18] Corey Winter: Until eventually you just closed the LLC completely. But you never actually quit.
[00:12:22] Emily Thompson: No, it did. It was just, it was, That was a long, slow pivot. That was the slowest turnaround and the history of pivots , Yeah. Is what happened with that. But I actually do, I do remember, I do remember quitting. I remember my moment.
[00:12:40] Of realizing that I was not going to go back into Indie, that it wasn't that I was just gonna like take a few moments to, you know, really focus on Being Boss. And then I was gonna come back to web design and that moment was actually one that forced a quit. And that was when our, when our website platform that we were building all of our websites on sent out notification that they were closing down.
[00:13:03] Corey Winter: Yeah.
[00:13:03] Emily Thompson: And so then it was more of a conversation of, are we, you know, just gonna kind of keep, you know, dealing with our clients or servicing our clients, is the better word there. Um, are we gonna continue doing this thing? And just sort of like, see what happens. When that announcement was made, it was literally a decision of, okay, are we going to go to all of our clients and offer to rebuild them websites on all of these things. Or are we going to quit and let them go find another solution for themselves? And so I will say for that project, I quit that day.
[00:13:34] Corey Winter: That was like a quit and a pivot. All in one .
[00:13:37] Emily Thompson: Yeah, it was. It was a quivot. Oh. Oh, that's cute.
[00:13:42] Corey Winter: Put that on a t-shirt.
[00:13:42] Emily Thompson: Did we just make a new word? It was quivot. That sounds like it belongs in Harry Potter. A little bit. A little bit. I love that for that word. So a pivot comes when. I imagine when you are putting your energy from one thing into something else, and so you are technically quitting one thing to do something else, but I don't think there should be as much shame in that as there is.
[00:14:12] I think if you're quitting something to go home and just like become a couch potato for no good reason, like that's quitting, but who here actually does?
[00:14:22] Corey Winter: I wish.
[00:14:23] Emily Thompson: I know sometimes I wish I could.
[00:14:25] Corey Winter: It sounds so much simpler.
[00:14:28] Emily Thompson: Just grab a bag of Cheetos and lay on the couch. But like we'd all be real tired of that in two weeks.
[00:14:37] Corey Winter: Okay. Maybe for some people that sounds like life.
[00:14:40] Emily Thompson: So anyway, what I , what I want to explore today is this idea that I think it's actually a really important skill to. And especially to know when to quit, to pivot in a way that's in your best interest and to not feel guilty about it.
[00:15:02] Corey Winter: So you're saying there is such a thing as quitting?
[00:15:04] Emily Thompson: For the purpose of this conversation, we're gonna say yes, but really I think I'm talking about the quivot here today.
[00:15:10] Corey Winter: Okay.
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[00:16:16] Okay, so I think where I'd like to start is how society feels about quitting because there is a reason why we have a lot of shame and guilt around it. And as I was prepping for this episode, I just like, I did like a Google image search for quitting quote.
[00:16:34] Corey Winter: I'm actually very impressed with you because you actually did some research in prepping this agenda.
[00:16:38] Emily Thompson: Thanks, Corey.
[00:16:38] Corey Winter: So I applaud you.
[00:16:41] Emily Thompson: Thanks. I usually, I sometimes do some OK , sometimes do some, So I have a couple quotes for you. I think you're gonna all recognize some of these. One is from Russell Simmons. There's no failures. Only quitters. Two,. Mohammad Ali. Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.
[00:17:03] Corey Winter: I love that one.
[00:17:04] Emily Thompson: Right. Next one is a Filipino proverb that has also been, um, what's it called? Um, not accompanied, been accredited, been credited to a couple of white dudes. But originally a Filipino proverb, a quitter never wins, a winner never quits.
[00:17:24] Corey Winter: So I'm a winner.
[00:17:25] Emily Thompson: Uh, yeah., according to this yes.
[00:17:28] Corey Winter: Yes!
[00:17:28] Emily Thompson: Indeed. You are, And, uh,
[00:17:30] Corey Winter: I've never won anything.
[00:17:31] Emily Thompson: There was also this general sentiment that history does not talk about quitters. Mm. So there is no wonder, everybody, that we feel so much shame and guilt around the idea of quit. Anything, And this can be your job. This can be a business that's no longer working for you for one reason or another.
[00:17:54] This can be a relationship. It can be a bad habit or a good habit that just isn't serving you anymore or whatever it may be. Um, and there's a reason why we feel so gross about quitting, and it's that society in general thinks that quitting is basically the worst thing you can do.
[00:18:13] Corey Winter: I think it's because society associates quitting with weakness, and that's very much not the case. Finish that thought for me. . ,
[00:18:25] Emily Thompson: I agree with that and I, I would say that someone who is going to strategically, and, you know, consciously le, or maybe not even consciously, maybe not even strategically, , if you're gonna stop doing a thing or leave a thing that is no longer serving you, then you're a boss.
[00:18:47] There is no reason to stay, just to stay, just to keep from being a quitter that's not serving literally anyone. Or it may be serving someone, but it's not serving you. And you're here to serve yourself on some level of work serving everyone else. So I love a quitter. I mean, I don't love like a like bad quitter, but a good quitter.
[00:19:08] I love a quivotter very much.
[00:19:11] Corey Winter: I guess that one's sticking. Okay.
[00:19:12] Emily Thompson: It is. I'm gonna keep it.
[00:19:14] Corey Winter: So how do we shift our mindset around quitting.
[00:19:19] Emily Thompson: There are times when you should not quit. There are times when you should persevere, and I, I don't know that there is no rhyme or is, there's no equation to help you figure this out.
[00:19:28] There's no diagram. I don't think, I think that every situation is so incredibly nuanced. There's no way for me to be like, you know, follow these three steps and you're gonna know if you're, if you need to quit the thing or not. I think, you know, I think if you like sincerely, question yourself and get quiet and ask yourself if it's time to end this thing.
[00:19:50] Whatever it may be, you'll know the answer. And then I think there's the second step to it that you have to trust that the next step that you take is a good one.
[00:20:02] Corey Winter: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:02] Emily Thompson: Even if the quitting wasn't maybe the best thing you could do, whatever you're doing next is still gonna be better than staying at the thing that you didn't stay in.
[00:20:11] Whatever it may be. So, going back a little bit though, I think we all need to shift our mindset around this idea of quitting. Um, and so scrolling through all those images, there was like an unattributed quote. It was like the one pro quitting quote out of a sea of anti quitting quotes, and it was, I'm not a quitter, but sometimes the game ain't worth playing anymore.
[00:20:36] And I think that is where I live of, and I've said it before, like this is all a game. It's a fun game. It's a game that has impact and is important and I, I'm not frivolous with it by any means, but business is a bit of a game. Life is a bit of a game, and there are situations in your life that aren't worth playing anymore.
[00:21:00] And so quit those things or pivot and put your energy somewhere.
[00:21:05] Corey Winter: Yeah, and going back to what I opened up the show with about how I'm kind of stepping back from running my business, I guess I don't really see even that as quitting because I guess I, I went full time with my business I think in 2018 or 19 after having kind of had a be a side gig for a couple years before that, and, I started going full time with Biddy Tarot a couple years ago, and that's when I was like, Okay, I'm gonna step back from my business a little bit because it's no longer my priority.
[00:21:35] And now..
[00:21:36] Emily Thompson: Yeah, you actually quit then.
[00:21:37] Corey Winter: I did, and I think now I'm not so much quitting my business. I think it's just shifting from being my full-time priority back into more of a side gig, and I think that's kind of where a lot of people are going to relate to this episode is that maybe you did go full time with your business, maybe during the pandemic, and maybe things have shifted for you now and you don't wanna let go of your business, but maybe it's time to, you know, make it a side gig again, or vice versa.
[00:22:08] Emily Thompson: Yeah, yeah, there is. There's no rhyme or reason. There's no right or wrong necessarily. I think there are situations where there can, like, if you're in an abusive relationship, I'm not a rela relationship therapist, but like,
[00:22:19] Corey Winter: Oh yeah, quit that.
[00:22:20] Emily Thompson: Okay, good. Thank you. Right, so there are, there is some rights and wrongs, but it, but that's like few and far between.
[00:22:30] Most of what we're talking about here is just you have to choose, and I think that's really what a lot of people struggle with is the finality. Quitting the thing. Whereas what I love about quitting is having that brain space back to move forward really with a thing that I am moving towards, or that was a weird mix of metaphors, but whatever.
[00:22:55] So I value my brain space enough to release the shame and guilt around quitting something because I understand the value. Of being able to move forward a little more untethered.
[00:23:16] Corey Winter: Imagine the cool stuff you can do when you free up your brain from the things that are possibly dragging you down.
[00:23:25] Emily Thompson: Amen. Amen.
[00:23:28] Amen. So what I thought would be a fun thing was do a little trip down memory lane of all the times I've quit.
[00:23:35] Corey Winter: Yeah, I love this. I'm so excited for this.
[00:23:39] Emily Thompson: Because I also think there's something to normalizing it, right? There's tons of podcasts and episodes and books, blah, blah, blah, around how to start a thing, how to run a thing, but how many of those are really about quitting?
[00:23:51] How to quit.
[00:23:52] Corey Winter: That is going to be the sequel to the Being Boss book.
[00:23:56] Being a quitter.
[00:23:58] Emily Thompson: Being a Quivotter. A quivotter. Okay, so first I sold my first business. Quit it, Sold it back.
[00:24:06] Corey Winter: Okay, so I think this is probably gonna be the closest you got to like just quitting something. Yeah. So what got you to that point?
[00:24:13] What made you want to leave that business behind?
[00:24:15] Emily Thompson: Two things. Hurricane Katrina.
[00:24:18] Corey Winter: Okay, that's a, Yeah. Solid.
[00:24:20] Emily Thompson: That was a big one. That was a big one. I owned a brick and mortar store in the path of a hurricane. When it hit and it was devastating. And I was a baby.
[00:24:30] You were young too.
[00:24:32] I was. I was a baby. I'm not kidding.
[00:24:34] I was 19, 20. I was a baby and, and still in college. And that whole scenario of, cause David and I also stayed for that, like I was there for it. Um, my business had some damage. I was incredibly lucky in that it was incredibly minimal, but there was also the financial toll of having to be closed for weeks, um, because.
[00:25:04] No utilities, like literally could not turn on the lights. Um, or, because really the city was kind of shut down for weeks. And so,
[00:25:14] Corey Winter: Ok, so if it was not for the act of God, would you have quit this, this business?
[00:25:20] Emily Thompson: So the second reason was I wanted to move to finish my degree.
[00:25:27] Corey Winter: So that's a pivot.
[00:25:28] Emily Thompson: That is a pivot. You're right. That is. That is a pivot. I wanted to put my energy, um, no, you know what? Cause if I had stayed, I could have finished my degree there. I, but I needed to go somewhere else to get the better degree. So it like that's, that's a little gray area. I definitely quit that business. I quit that business and I have not gone back into that business.
[00:25:57] It was a tanning salon, everybody. I've not gone back into that at all. Like that was a legit quit leave behind sold it and gone. And that was my first experience with a businness, was quit. Maybe that's why I'm so okay with it. I just, I quit my first one. It's not a thing to quit all the other ones too.
[00:26:16] Corey Winter: Okay, so act of God aside. Do you think. The inexperience of running a business played into your decision to quit. If you had been running that business when you were 30 years old, do you think you would've quit?
[00:26:28] Emily Thompson: Um, maybe not 30, but let's say if I had had that business when I was 20 years into being a business owner, would I have made the same moves?
[00:26:36] Maybe not. Honestly, maybe not, uh, because I was a baby. And both like, I mean, think about those mindsets of like, um, those, the mindsets of those first like year, two years, three years of business plus that of a teenage brain. Literally not the same as either someone who's 30 and getting started in business, or someone who's 30 and has been in business for, you know, 15 years, 10 years.
[00:27:05] Something. Um, so all that to say, no, I think it would've been different if at a different time in my life, but I think it all happened exactly the way it should have no regrets literally at all. I'm so glad I made that move and I continued on with my life for sure.
[00:27:19] Corey Winter: All right, so I like you all, You have, you have five different things listed here.
[00:27:22] So what was number two?
[00:27:24] Emily Thompson: Okay. That I do think was. Biggie.
[00:27:27] Corey Winter: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:28] Emily Thompson: For me personally, but I think other people will see some of these other ones as kind of big moves as well. One, I did close Indie, so after graduating college, I started doing web design and grew it into an agency. I think had our biggest, There were 15 of us between employees and contractors working on, you know, 8-ish projects at a time, loved what we were doing, but we, I started Being Boss as just a fun side project and it grew into a whole business, not all by itself, but kind of on accident, actually, legitimately on accident,
[00:28:11] Corey Winter: True story.
[00:28:12] Emily Thompson: It grew into its own thing and it started needing more and more of my energy, and I got more energy from that than I did the web design business. So there was probably a year to 18 months where Indie was kind of in limbo. We had a couple of clients that we were wrapping up. We had a couple of clients in a retainer, but I had the team, Corey, Corey included, that was really servicing those clients so that I could focus on Being Boss.
[00:28:38] But it was in this limbo place of like, Do I keep it? Do I close it? It was in limbo, but it still needed some of my attention sometimes, which was distracting from the thing that I really wanted to do, which was Being Boss. And so I don't really remember where my headspace was at when we got that email from our website platform that they were shutting down.
[00:28:58] I can't remember if I, I'd already decided that I wanted to close it, or if I was just gonna keep it in limbo. I don't remember. But what really was the final straw or the. Whatever metaphor you want to use here, um, was our platform saying that they were shutting down and that for me was like a fine then.
[00:29:16] Like I'm, I don't want to rebuild this agency to do all of this again for the same set of clients. I would rather close down the thing and really put all of my energy into Being Boss. So it was a very slow quivot. Um, but it was one nonetheless. And I did end up finally just sort of severing all, um, all of those ties with that business and those clients and that way of doing business.
[00:29:45] Corey Winter: Yeah. So these next two things, they're kind of opposites of each other. So this first one's gonna be where something was in one way going really, really well, and the one after that is actually gonna be something that did not go so well. So these are more,
[00:30:00] Emily Thompson: It's funny that you say that second one didn't go well. We'll talk about that in a second.
[00:30:04] Corey Winter: These are not really quitting a business, it's quitting something inside of a business. So it's, it's quitting an offering that your business was, was putting out there. So what was this first one we're talking about?
[00:30:14] Emily Thompson: Sure. So the first one was shutting down the Being Boss Facebook group.
[00:30:21] That one was a hard one to talk the team into. It took me probably a year, cuz I was the first one who was like, Y'all, this is getting crazy because you're right, it was going so well on like on paper. Yeah. Whenever we shut it down, it had over 25,000 members. It was an incredibly active place. It was insane. Both insanely awesome and insanely difficult because it was another one of those things that just accidentally happened in this business.
[00:30:52] And we just thought we were gonna open up a little group for a couple of folks, 25,000 people later. And we had facilitators, we had, uh, or not facilitators, but um, community managers. We were having meetings, we were having people coming in there and doing shady shit. Um, we had people in there who didn't even know what Being Boss was.
[00:31:12] They were just in there causing a ruckus and being a pain in everybody's butt. And so, You know, the first couple of times things happened, the team was like, Oh, okay, we'll figure it out. Like testing, change, build some systems. We'll, you know, policies, all the things. And I'm like,
[00:31:26] Corey Winter: Go out to the coast, we'll get together, have a few laughs.
[00:31:29] Emily Thompson: Right?
[00:31:29] Corey Winter: That's what it sounded like it was .
[00:31:33] Emily Thompson: Oh my gosh. And basically, basically we'll figure it out. Um, and then it got worse. It got, and, and while everyone inside of it, especially some of those, I, I meet them sometimes, some of those OG Facebook Being Boss group members. Um, it was such a beautiful, magical place. It was like one of the first places on the internet that existed like that.
[00:31:55] It was, which is a funny thing to say. Think about that for a second. Cuz that's also true, which is wild. Um, it was a really beautiful, amazing place, but it grew into a gnarly beast and we put it down.
[00:32:09] Corey Winter: So you quit it. Yes. But you quit it because it no longer aligned with your business values.
[00:32:17] Emily Thompson: Absolutely. That's what finally got everybody on board was whenever, Cause it was beau...
[00:32:23] I mean it was beautiful on paper, right? We had this, like, we had this metric that we could tell our advertisers. We had this community that we could access and talk to, but also sell to, if, you know, wanna think about it from a business standpoint. We had this amazing group, but it did not align with our values.
[00:32:42] And so everyone wanted to keep it because it was amazing in all of those ways, but it was distracting and it was rude, and it was like all the things because of the platform that it was on, because it was on Facebook, not because of like the bosses who were in there. It was because of all the non bosses who were in there because of the platform that it was on.
[00:33:03] And it was because bosses who were in there were distracted on Facebook when they needed to be getting to work. And not like hanging out on Facebook. And many of them were sharing that sentiment with us. So this is really more of a pivot. We ended up taking that group off and moving it to, and was on Slack for a while and is now on,
[00:33:22] Corey Winter: I forgot about that.
[00:33:23] Emily Thompson: Right? There was a Slack one for a minute. Um, we relaunched a couple of years ago. Um, on, um, another platform so you can still join the community beingboss.club/community. It's not a gross place anymore. It's amazing and beautiful because we built a fence around it. Whereas on Facebook it was just like a open football field where anybody could run through anytime, sometimes naked.
[00:33:47] Okay. Not quite.
[00:33:49] Corey Winter: I believe that was back before Facebook allowed you to make groups private. So literally anyone could search for the Bing Boss group and find it. So you were getting all sorts of seedy people,
[00:34:00] Emily Thompson: all sorts, all sorts of folks. And so we did shut it down. Um, I would say it was less of a pivot because when we went to, when we went to Slack, the first sort of pivot off, it went from 25,000 people to like a hundred.
[00:34:13] Corey Winter: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:14] Emily Thompson: right? Like it, it, or I actually don't remember what that slack number was. It could have been anything. I don't know. But it was nothing near. 25,000. So that felt like a quit. Um, which I have no regrets. No, no regrets.
[00:34:30] Corey Winter: Mostly cuz you hated Facebook.
[00:34:31] Emily Thompson: So I hated Facebook years before everybody else did for sure.
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[00:35:27] Corey Winter: So what was this next one? The first iteration of the clubhouse? Because you said it was a winner, but I remember it not ending up in a good place.
[00:35:39] Emily Thompson: So it made a ton of money.
[00:35:44] Corey Winter: Yeah.
[00:35:45] Emily Thompson: A ton, it's probably
[00:35:46] Corey Winter: so, so we'll say there were, there were multiple iterations of Clubhouse before what the Clubhouse is today.
[00:35:51] Emily Thompson: Yes, yes, yes. Uh, I mean, Clubhouse, in the 18 months that we ran, it made well over six figures.
[00:36:00] Corey Winter: Mm-hmm.
[00:36:00] Emily Thompson: So like, from a business standpoint, it was an amazing thing. And, and, and from. Um, from otherwise I loved it. It actually, uh, the first iteration of the clubhouse is what is now CEO Day Kit. So there's also another win.
[00:36:13] We were able to get in there with, we did cohorts of, of bosses. We would let them in 20 or 25 in at a time. It has been two days with them doing what is now CEO Day Kit with them. And then it was a year membership in a sort of like fenced off community space again at a time when not everyone was doing communities.
[00:36:33] Um, and it made six plus figures, like it made like more than a hundred thousand dollars. In the 12 to 18 months that we did it, and it was the testing ground for what is now our best selling digital product, which is CEO Day Kit. So unlike all the metrics that make sense, it was a total win. What we did was we did too many cohorts at a time.
[00:36:58] Corey Winter: Mm-hmm.
[00:36:58] Emily Thompson: or at once like. We did too many cohorts in like the 12 to 18 months that we ran it and we sold out our list be or faster than we could grow our list to replenish. So that's like, yes.
[00:37:11] Corey Winter: So that's what I remember. So is that what led to the quitting?
[00:37:15] Emily Thompson: So that pair
[00:37:17] bad decisions
[00:37:17] with that paired with the launch of the Being Boss book and impending burnout.
[00:37:25] Because that's, that's the sort of phase of existence of being boss. Where that happened, um, was the book was, I think this is that timeline. I could be about a year off. I know it was book related. The biggest reason was we sold on our list, which is fine. I love that high five, but it did make it hard for us to launch future cohorts.
[00:37:48] And instead we decided to take the content and turn it to CEO Day Kit into an evergreen product, um, which is serving thousands of bosses. I still use it beingboss.club/ceo if anyone is interested. Um, so it still exists. It just exists as something different. We pivoted it. Um, but the mistake there was we outsold our list faster than we could refill our list.
[00:38:12] Um, but we also had the book happening. And then soon burned out, we would've stopped it anyway.
[00:38:18] Corey Winter: That leads us into our last point where nowadays we're starting new things and quitting things all the time.
[00:38:25] Emily Thompson: All the time.
[00:38:25] Corey Winter: We're pros at quitting now.
[00:38:26] Emily Thompson: Yeah, I am. I love it. I love to quit things and not that I'm quitting things that are doing well or that are like.
[00:38:34] Super serving everyone or whatever. I've just really, again, learned the value of my time and attention, and not even of my time and attention, but the time and attention of my team of like, I don't want anybody wasting time on something that is not serving us individually and or the collective right, of either the business and or our audience.
[00:39:03] So yeah, I have totally let go of a lot of shame and guilt around the idea of quitting and otherwise prioritized. Um, making sure we are wisely, showing up in any and every way that we can,
[00:39:20] Corey Winter: and we do this through testing and changing.
[00:39:26] Emily Thompson: Indeed at this conference that I was at last week. So I don't know when this goes live.
[00:39:30] I think it actually goes live like in November, I think. Yeah. Sorry, this, we're recording this enough A little early. Um, but I was recently at a conference. I did two sessions on stage, which. Was a surprise , I thought I was gonna do one.
[00:39:41] Corey Winter: Can we tell that story? I want you to tell that story.
[00:39:46] Emily Thompson: Really quickly. I had, um, I went to Inbound 2022 for, or as part of the HubSpot Podcast Network, a ton of fun.
[00:39:55] I stayed up really late one night hanging out with, uh, with some of my other podcast hosts and, Uh, some of the HubSpot team stayed up really like way past my bedtime, like way, way, way past my bedtime, having such a great time because the next day I had nothing to do. Um, and then I ended up waking up the next morning to my phone, um, blowing up because a guest for someone else's stage live recording show.
[00:40:22] Did not show up and they needed someone to assist to fill a seat. And I, so I was like, Okay, I guess I'm doing it. So on just a couple hours of sleep, I got up, got ready. I had only packed one outfit, for a stage day. So I ended up going on stage in red pants and a Nirvana t-shirt, which felt a different kind of boss that I really did love.
[00:40:45] But I was like, I cannot believe that I'm doing this today at a conference with 10,000 people. I'm going on stage in a nirvana t-shirt. Okay, doing it. So end up having two stage days. Cuz I saved my outfit, obviously for my session. Sorry. Not sorry.
[00:41:01] Corey Winter: And you know why that went so well. Why? Because you're not a quitter, You're a winner.
[00:41:07] Emily Thompson: Oh my God, Corey, thank you. Tying it all in. Thank you for that. But while at that conference, on both of those, uh, stages or the one stage, both times I brought up test and change. Because I really, truly believe that this is one of the, the most core mindsets and practices and beliefs of being boss, is that you have the power to try something else to make this decision one time now.
[00:41:37] And then change your mind and make it again in the future. And I think this like, um, this acceptance of non permanence is something one of you haven't learned over the past three years. Where have you been at? You are refusing to adjust to the new normal. But testing and changing is really important for how I believe we should be showing up to do this kind of work in a way that that moves with the, with society as quickly as society is moving these days, just in general.
[00:42:09] And also just figuring out our own paths along the way because I do see that there is a problem that when we make decisions, we feel like we're making that decision forever. Right. Like if I quit my web design business now, I can never do web design again. And I love being a web designer. I love writing code.
[00:42:31] It's a really wonderful skill that I've picked up and I've enjoyed it so much. So if I, but if I in this business, I will never be able to be a web designer again, and that's not true.
[00:42:41] Corey Winter: So I feel like some people, they don't like to quit because if they quit, it feels very final and they feel like if they don't quit completely, they're, they're keeping on the hook.
[00:42:55] Emily Thompson: Hmm.
[00:42:55] Corey Winter: They're keeping whatever, they're not quitting on the hook to where it's always just kind of a little bit of baggage that's dragging them along. And I think that's why you put the nail on the coffin with Indie cuz you were tired of that baggage holding over your shoulders. And so I think when, when people do quit, it is a very final thing for them.
[00:43:14] Emily Thompson: Yeah.
[00:43:14] Corey Winter: Cause they never wanna have to think about it again.
[00:43:16] Emily Thompson: Well, and I love that too. Like, I also think there is something to just quitting something because you want it to be gone. Yeah, but I, I think what keeps a lot of people from quitting is this idea that they can never go back and there are some type cases when you can never go back.
[00:43:32] Okay. Web design, Can we go back to that one? Guess who designed the Almanac website? Guess who designed the Being Boss. Guess who like in, Oh, sorry. I raised my hand.
[00:43:44] Corey Winter: She's raising her hand.
[00:43:45] Emily Thompson: I'm sorry. I realized that y'all can't see me do that. I was raising my hand. Um, guess who in coaching calls with bosses all the time, am I literally helping them write little bits of code to do quick fixes on their website?
[00:43:58] Raised my hand again. Right? Like I still use those skills. I still do those things. I'm just not carrying around the baggage of a whole company and clients and processes and team and all the things. I let that go and I was able to move forward, but I still have those things within me and I can still use them as needed.
[00:44:18] So leave the doors open.
[00:44:19] Corey Winter: Opportunities could arise again.
[00:44:21] Emily Thompson: Indeed. Or close those fucking doors, man. You know, like I think that there are times and places too where like just quit and move on. Just quit and move on. But also, you can also choose to quit and leave the doors open. You choose.
[00:44:36] Corey Winter: With our last tenish minutes on this episode.
[00:44:40] When do you decide to quit? What questions do you ask yourself?
[00:44:45] Emily Thompson: It's funny, I feel like I said a few minutes ago that there's not like any questions that can give you, and then totally down here I wrote through questions that I, Wow, I forgot that I did that. Well, let me go back, to what I said earlier. I don't think there is a blueprint.
[00:44:59] I do don't think there is. A very, like, just everyone uses the same filter and it'll work. But here are three questions that I ask myself when it comes to business stuff.
[00:45:11] Corey Winter: I'm not, Can I rearrange these for you? I think the, the second one should be the, the first one.
[00:45:14] Emily Thompson: And I also think I need to add a fourth one.
[00:45:19] Corey Winter: I think this one is the big one. That's, I feel like that's the first question you should ask.
[00:45:24] Emily Thompson: Okay. I love that you say that, Corey. I love that you say that, but okay. Here's question number. Oh, Marie Kondo would love us for this one, I think you all know it's coming, is does it bring me joy. Does it? Do I do. I like doing this enough that I want to show up for it every single day to do the thing, or maybe not every single day, because I don't wanna show up for anything on Saturday and Sunday.
[00:45:47] I'm not gonna lie. But does it bring you joy on, you know, like a Thursday morning ? Like, I won't even say Monday, because those can be difficult too. On a Thursday morning, can you find a bit of joy in showing up to do your job? Um, if you haven't already, I do recommend that you go back and listen to episode number 3 22.
[00:46:07] I had a conversation with Tieghan Gerard of Half Baked Harvest and. The way she has found joy and what it is that she does in a way that allows her to be an insanely prolific creator is one that I found incredibly inspiring. Like she has figured it out for how it is that she creates. Um, and I think prioritizing joy really is sort of a magic little piece.
[00:46:33] So does it bring you at least some joy? And it's a job. Right. It's hard work. There is baggage, there is a lot on our shoulders as one adults the worst, but two, as business owners. And the bigger it gets, the bigger that weight becomes. So if you can't find some joy in it, maybe quit it. Number two is does it make money and mm, does it make a profit?
[00:47:07] Corey Winter: Yeah.
[00:47:08] Emily Thompson: Or is there at least a clear line to profit? Maybe you're in the early stages and you're not turning a profit yet, but can you see how and when it's going to that's acceptable. If you are four years into it and you still don't know how you're gonna make money, uh, you might wanna ask yourself if it's really time to quit, cuz it might be.
[00:47:27] Or make some really big changes otherwise.
[00:47:30] Corey Winter: Yeah.
[00:47:31] Emily Thompson: Question number three is, does it serve its purpose?
[00:47:36] Corey Winter: Hmm.
[00:47:37] Emily Thompson: And I think this is kind of threefold, twofold if you don't have a team. One is does it serve its purpose for you? So does it give you what you need out of it? Is it giving you the ability to pay your mortgage?
[00:47:53] Is it giving you the ability to, uh, fulfill a creative urge? Does it give you the ability to have the work life situation that you desire? Or not. Number two, I think it also has to serve a purpose to your team or some like big things need to shape up. And number three is does it serve its purpose to your audience or your customer?
[00:48:22] So it's like a three parter. So we're at what, five questions now, I think. And then my last question, which is question number four slash six , depending on how you're counting.
[00:48:35] Corey Winter: Sub A. Bulletpoint 3.
[00:48:38] Emily Thompson: Yes. Yeah, who knows? Somewhere XYZ happening right now is, does it align with your personal values? If you don't know your personal values beingboss.club/values, we have all kinds of resources, podcast episodes, a quiz, maybe a worksheet, I can't remember.
[00:48:56] Corey Winter: Mm-hmm.
[00:48:56] Emily Thompson: All kinds of things. But those are the things that I'm reflecting on when I'm deciding if I wanna quit or so on something or not. And you have to dig kind of deep. I also really love having lots of conversations with other people about this because they're. They'll be like, Emily, but you do love this thing.
[00:49:11] You light up when you talk about it. You're having a bad day, right? Or I'm talking to my team like, is, do, do, Are we liking doing this? Is this actually bringing everybody else some joy? Right? Or is your audience even engaging or otherwise buying the thing? Is it serving its purpose to them? And if it's a no for all of those, that's an easy bye everybody.
[00:49:37] Right, and I'm hoping, I'm hoping a couple of you, at least listening to this, has found a moment of clarity in reflecting on those questions as to whether or not it's time for you to quit a thing or not. If you do want a bit more support, we have a workshop, a workshop, a worksheet that can kind of help you navigate this little bit.
[00:49:55] We've talked about it many times year before, but if you're new or just haven't snagged it yet, it's a little worksheet we like to call. What's working, kind of working, not working.
[00:50:04] Corey Winter: It is not a little worksheet, don't de mean it . It is a very big important worksheet.
[00:50:10] Emily Thompson: It is,
[00:50:11] Corey Winter: It's actually like our most popular one. So ,
[00:50:13] Emily Thompson: it is our most, it really is the most usable one too.
[00:50:15] I keep a couple printed out and in my little stack of worksheets and any time I'm ever deciding, you know, what I need to let go of, what do I need to quit? Cause here's the thing, if it's in the not working, it's probably just time to throw it out, it's time to quit the thing and put your energy into something that's more worthy of that precious resource that you have.
[00:50:39] Because we only have so many dates on this earth, that just went real morbid. Sorry. Right? We only have So
[00:50:45] Corey Winter: You're gonna die. We're all gonna die.
[00:50:47] Emily Thompson: We're all gonna. Yolo, right? Quit it now and go do the thing you wanna do. Jesus . So anywho, um, I would love for everyone to get a little more okay with quitting.
[00:50:58] Personally, I love to quit. I love to quit things that are not serving me or my people, or don't bring me joy because then it just gives me more time and energy and space to do the things that I want to do, and I want that for everybody.
[00:51:15] Corey Winter: So basically go be a quitter. Woo.
[00:51:19] Emily Thompson: Yeah. Being boss for quitters,
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