Diversifying Your Revenue with Physical Products with Brigit Esselmont of Biddy Tarot

[00:00:00] Emily Thompson: Welcome to Being Boss, a podcast for creatives, business owners and entrepreneurs who want to take control of their work and live life on their own terms. I'm your host, Emily Thompson, and in this episode I'm joined again after far too long by Brigit Esselmont of Biddy Tarot to discuss the creation of the new bitty tarot deck, the evolution of entrepreneurship into the digital age, and the diversification of business offerings.

[00:00:25] You can find all the tools, books, and links we reference on the show notes at www.beingboss.club. And if you like this episode, be sure to subscribe to this show and share us with a friend.

[00:00:38] As we all know, being an entrepreneur feels less lonely and more approachable when you hear about the journeys of those who came before you or who are making their way alongside you. And if more of those stories is what you're hungry for. Cue up an episode of the Finding Founders podcast, hosted by Sam Donner, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, designed to inspire finding founders as a podcast about vulnerability and entrepreneurship where you learn from the life stories of founders, activists, and even drug lords.

[00:01:09] For something a little more boss aligned, check out the recent interview with Jen Levy, who turned a passion for gardening into a mission to build community farms and teach others to grow food locally. You can listen to finding founders wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:01:30] Brigit Esselmont is an intuitive business strategist, entrepreneur, mentor, and published author as the founder of Bitty Tero, she turned her love for tarot into an abundant seven figure business that employs 15 people and serves over 15 million tarot lovers every year. Prior to that, she had a 15 plus year career.

[00:01:50] At is a management and human resource consultant working with Australia's top companies. Brigit has been featured in the Oprah Magazine, Huffington Post Body and Soul Mind, Body Green and Refinery 29 appeared on numerous podcasts, including us here at Big Boss Smart P of Income and Mind Body musicing.

[00:02:09] To listen to previous episodes with Brigit, go check out episode number 96 1 58 and 1 96 of the Being Boss Podcast and find links to all of those in the show notes at beanboss.club.

[00:02:23] Brigit, I am so excited to see your face again. It has been far too long. Welcome back to Being Boss.

[00:02:29] Brigit Esselmont: Oh, I'm so excited to be here.

[00:02:32] It's fantastic. Nice to see you.

[00:02:34] Emily Thompson: Right. We just got on Zoom together. We were like, we can't talk too much cuz I feel like if we get started we're gonna like just spill all the good stuff immediately. So we went ahead and hit record, but really I am so excited to chat with you. I feel a little ashamed that it's been so long since you've been on, but it feels like yesterday.

[00:02:51] Like how has literally four years gone by since you were on the show last? How has that happened?

[00:02:57] Brigit Esselmont: I know it's crazy, but do you know what I'm excited about? Is it being bosses, been online for like many, many years. How amazing is that? How many episodes are you up to now?

[00:03:08] Emily Thompson: We're in the three 30 s Let's see, let's see what, what number this one's going.

[00:03:11] If all goes as plan 3 25 is where we are.

[00:03:15] Brigit Esselmont: That is, it's been a long time. I think that's amazing. So kudos to you, Emily.

[00:03:19] Emily Thompson: Thanks. He's been around longer. Brigit , like Biddy tarot has been on, on for a really long time too. I think it's, it's, it's not often that I, that I'm talking to bosses who have been in it as long as we have, who are still in it doing the thing.

[00:03:37] So I like also that's a high five between us that like we're still here doing it for better or worse. . Yeah. Yeah.

[00:03:45] Brigit Esselmont: Yeah. And I think, that is actually in itself really telling because there's been so much change and so many. Variations to what the online space looks like, what the global space looks like, and yeah, I think it's a real testament to the businesses and the business owners who are just, who just keep on going and yeah, pivot and adjust and adapt and evolve in all of that.

[00:04:10] I think that's really exciting. Yeah,

[00:04:13] Emily Thompson: I think so too. And as you're saying all those things, it makes me think about like what that means, the even definition of entrepreneur, how that has evolved, right? Like if you were an entrepreneur, Just 20 years ago, you like found a niche, you figured it out, you did the thing, and maybe you did some pivots and did some different things in business or whatever.

[00:04:34] But in this space, in the online space, whew. So many things. So changing all the time, industry shifting, tactics ending and new ones coming up. Like the definition of entrepreneur has become so much more, I don't wanna say robust, but at the moment that's the only word that's coming to me of like, we we're a different kind of folk

[00:04:56] Brigit Esselmont: Yeah. You really, you have to be able to think on your feet and instead of getting overwhelmed by a change or a variation in something, it's, you just have to go, Okay, well how else are we gonna do it then, you know. Because every year it's something different, whether it's like a Google algorithm change or it's a pandemic or whatever it might be, you know?

[00:05:18] Yeah. Like, okay, what should we do next? How do we kind of keep our like core message the same, but maybe we have to deliver it in a different way, you know?

[00:05:28] Emily Thompson: Yeah. Oh for sure. And I feel like that's really what we're gonna end up diving into today. Cuz because we have been around for so long and we've done so many things, we are still in the same space that we always were.

[00:05:39] It's just had to change over and over. And you're right, like I feel like every year. Every year. Like this business is different, one way or the other. We have to change that quickly. So maybe even, let's just, let's start with like, what have you been up to since you were, you were last on the show in October, 2018?

[00:05:58] I'll make sure like, if you are not familiar with Brigit, go back into our archives. You can visit the show notes at beingboss.club and find the links to the episodes. Brigit's been on the show several times before, but it has been since October 2018 that you were here. I would love to know what you've been up to since then.

[00:06:14] Brigit Esselmont: Yeah, well I think back to October, 2018 and at that time we were launching everyday ta and that was the book and the tarot deck. And since that time, in four years we have sold 400,000 copies of everyday tarot deck. Like stop. Insane. And you know what's so exciting is just seeing the deck come up in stores like literally around the world.

[00:06:43] We go like shopping here locally and I jump into every like bookstore and we find the deck there and my girls and I always, put it on the front shelf, make sure everyone can see it, . And then I have friends who are like traveling and they always take little photos of the deck showing up in these different places.

[00:07:01] I'm really, really grateful for that. And, it's a way that we've brought tarot into the mainstream, which is yeah, like our core essence of being, of, of why we're here. And the, of course, the everyday tarot book has done really well as well. I think we've sold just over 20,000 copies of that so far. And yeah, there's, there's some more exciting things in the works in, in the everyday tower land, as well.

[00:07:26] So that is, that is good. What else have we done in the last four years? Well, our certification program, so the Bitty Tower certification program, it continues to grow and expand. I think we have now over 1500 certified bitty tarot advisors. So these are people who. Studied with us for at least a year, and they've learned all of the bitty terror methodology.

[00:07:52] They've done all of the practice readings, they've been certified by us. So they, submit like their readings, their application, and we say, yes, you are, you, we are proud to present you as a certified bitty terror advisor. So that's amazing. And we continue to grow that program. So I think maybe in the last year or two we've just added in how to really turn your readings into, like advisory readings.

[00:08:20] So rather than just simply like lay out the cards and go, Oh, this card means that, that card means that, how do you work with a client, not just for you to be the intuitive one, but then to help the client be intuitive and access their intuition? Cause that's like, again, if we're talking kind of big vision, big mission.

[00:08:38] I really wanna see our readers out there in a way that's like activating intuition just everywhere. Like little lights going off all around the world, you know? I don't wanna be kind of like the tower reader as the guru, and you must come to me to find out everything. But rather how do we keep lightening up everybody in a way that they can now access their own in a wisdom?

[00:09:02] So that's, that's really our certification program. And gosh, what else have we been doing over the last four years? A lot of it is just continuing to welcome more and more students into our programs. Community members. In fact, we're just about to launch a brand new bitty TA community platform, which nice, we, we've had the same one for a good, I don't know, five years.

[00:09:27] And it's been amazing. We've had thousands of members. But times change and the old sort of forum style. Isn't quite that cool anymore. So we're creating something that has a much more like, stronger sort of social vibe without being on social media. Cuz not everyone wants to be in Facebook.

[00:09:47] So our community's designed in a way that you can have your experience without having to be on a different platform. And continuing to do the practice readings with people around the world, All of the things. So yeah, that's, that's kind of that. And then of course we are now developing our very own bitty Toro deck, which has been a journey and a ride in itself.

[00:10:12] And we actually started designing. Probably about this time last year. So, the gestation period for this deck is quite long. Even though I thought, oh, maybe we can like bring this out into the world really quickly. But it took us a good sort of nine months to really design and develop the deck.

[00:10:32] And now we're in the process of, creating the actual physical product and being ready to launch it to our community and, and to the world as well. So, that's all we've been up to in the, that's all just a couple things. . That's it. Yeah.

[00:10:47] Emily Thompson: That's amazing. I'm so glad to hear that little update. Of all the things I will say, every detail.

[00:10:53] I still have mine sitting on my, my coffee table. It is like the one that I'm pulling whenever I'm just hanging out in the living room and I want to, I want to put some, pull some cards. I also see it in stores all the time and always like, I'm like, there's Britt is here, . And I love seeing that so much.

[00:11:12] I love seeing it everywhere. It's such, such a great deck. If, if anyone is interested in Tero or maybe you just like collecting decks because I know a lot of you do everyday Tero is such a good one. I highly recommend it. I'm so glad to hear that that is going so well. As well as a certification program.

[00:11:31] I love that you've connected these dotts of like you can teach tarot to the people who want to read tarot, but what does it look like to initiate that, that spark of intuition in all of those other people, right? Like you are expanding and scaling your impact so far beyond in that act that, that is amazing and sounds very rigid.

[00:11:59] for sure to want to scale in that way. So I'm loving hearing that. And in the community platform, Things do change, things shift and change. I am glad that you guys are, are taking on the, on that tech piece, as well as this new deck. And the thing that I sort of wanna illustrate here is I feel like we just hit on almost every sort of possible business model.

[00:12:23] Yeah. Or like, or like sort of revenue stream, right? There's this sort of teaching aspect. You have this community aspect, which is also very much so a technology aspect if you are building your own platform as well as products both traditionally published with everyday tarot and that the, both the deck and the book.

[00:12:43] And then now with this, with this deck that you're creating from scratch, which I am so excited to hold in my hand, I'd love to hear from you. Why it is that you've attacked business and or maybe attacked, feels a little aggressive why it is that you have gone about business in this way. And was this something where you strategically made a map that included all of these things in the beginning, or you just rolling with the punches as you go?

[00:13:16] Brigit Esselmont: That is such a good question because when I first started this, I think the way that my brain is and was wired is very much, I would love to have a plan. I wanted to have, Here's my one year plan, my three year plan. This is when this thing's going to happen, and so on. And I think that model worked pretty well when it was me and a team where I was the kind of, I was mostly, the, the strategic thinking and then I'd guide my team to go and execute.

[00:13:49] So that kind of, that kind of model worked really well where I had sort of full control over what that plan would be. What I've noticed though, like over time and over the sort of last three years, cause actually that's, we, I've talked a lot about what's happening on the external of video tower in the last four years, but also what's happened internally in the last four years is really uplifting our managers into leaders in the business and.

[00:14:19] Releasing more and more of running business from me. So, really instilling that into, I have a coo, a chief operating officer who's also like a CMO in marketing. And then we have some really strong project managers and then, team around that as well. So where I wanna go with that is when you're operating in a team like that, sometimes it's less about having a really strong, clear plan and a little bit more about having goals and intentions of where you wanna lead things.

[00:14:55] I think the other overlaying factor, as I'm thinking about it, is not just that team model, but also sometimes you have to be flexible to see, okay, if I do this project, what's the result going to be? Is it gonna be what I expect it to be, or is it gonna be something different? Maybe it opens up a door to something else.

[00:15:18] Right? So what I mean by that is, I know that we launched like a course for attracting your first five clients. Maybe this was about one or two years ago and it actually didn't do as well as we really thought it would do. Now, I think maybe the positioning was different, but had I had that in the plan and then we were gonna do this, and then this and this, then we would've been stuck on a plan that wasn't gonna work.

[00:15:43] So we had to go, Okay, let's go back to the drawing board. We need something different. Or maybe we actually, instead of focusing on that, maybe we need to focus on attracting more people who might just be interested in tarot and not at that point of wanting to attract clients. So we've had to be quite flexible and adaptable, but also mindful of what can our team.

[00:16:03] Realistically do as well. Cuz we are working on multiple projects and initiatives at any one time and I'm very aware of not overloading that system cause I'm like, Oh, I'm, two years ahead of everyone. Now, now I have a bit more like space to think, but if I keep dropping in those ideas too soon, it disrupts the flow and my team will wobble.

[00:16:27] So it's very important to really keep that in that team system and let the team kind of, adjust and direct when and how we do things. Does that make sense?

[00:16:39] Emily Thompson: Absolutely. I, I love that you've gone into this a little bit more. Slightly more organic and really just less micromanage energy right way of looking at how it is that you're planning and executing and, and making the things happen, which I think is spectacular.

[00:16:55] Side question, how big is your team these days?

[00:16:57] Brigit Esselmont: Well, we have 15 on our team now. But even just 18 months ago we were 30, on the team. And this is probably another story in itself, because I really grew and expanded the team thinking, Yeah, let's grow like more people, the more we can grow, right?

[00:17:17] But when we hit 30, I realized, oh, actually no is 30 requires things like an HR manager. It requires like more heavy like management operations. And so we are ending up having to hire people to manage a team of 30. And this kind of chunk of work goes into just managing. People and operations and not delivering on our like whole message and our mission.

[00:17:42] So we organically and kind of a little bit intentionally as well, have reduced that team down to 15. And I feel like we're in a sweet spot now with, 15, so That's nice. Yeah, that's another whole adventure.

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[00:19:06] And I think it's so interesting that you're using this team to act as a buffer between you and your ideas and actual execution, right? Because I think you being such a like creative idea person, like I feel like most bosses listening to this, it's really easy to just like jump in with all the ideas as soon as you have them, right?

[00:19:27] But because you've created this structure within your team and you're letting the business dictate more of what happens than you are dictating what happens, you've created this really beautiful buffer between you, the business owner with all the ideas and what the team is actually working on, and you staying out of the way.

[00:19:49] allows all the things to happen in the way they're supposed to. I think that's really inspiring and something that anyone who is building a team should pay some attention to. Because I've also over the years, found myself like I'm operating. Easily 18, 24 months ahead of anybody else. Like they don't even know where my head's at.

[00:20:07] I can't even, if I were to let them peak inside my head, they'd probably quit . Yes, because there would be so much overwhelm around all of the things that I'm thinking and considering, and the places that I want to go and the things that I want to do. And like, thank goodness I'm not spilling it for both.

[00:20:24] I want them to not quit, but also not every idea needs to be executed as soon as you have it. And so by having that buffer, you have this really beautiful opportunity to see, is the business gonna be ready for this? Is it the right thing for the business? But also, did I get over it, between having the idea and it time to actually happen.

[00:20:43] Brigit Esselmont: Yeah. Yeah. We've been like, for example, we flirt with the idea of a tower app. We've done that for like probably five

[00:20:51] Emily Thompson: years. I remember talking about that one many years ago at Darro app for sure. . Yeah.

[00:20:57] Brigit Esselmont: And I think like I'm always holding opportunities that are kind of sitting in the future.

[00:21:04] Yeah. And I really trust that they're kind of sitting there in their own, like their energetic bubble. And they will come into the being when they're ready. And, even as a human and entrepreneur can feel that sort of frustration with like, well, if I want it, why can't I just do it now? Like, let's just do it now.

[00:21:24] But every time I do like sort of force fit it to go, All right, it's your turn. It doesn't work, you know? Yeah. Wos the team, it wos like just everything. And so I'm learning and, and mastering more about how do I just kind of let these ideas bubble up and stay somewhere there in the future. Without force fitting them.

[00:21:47] I know that when they're ready to drop in, they will come in like so easily and effortlessly and then they'll settle in versus me grabbing it from shoving it in going, All right, team, make this

[00:21:58] Emily Thompson: work. indeed. Okay. Then let's talk about this deck. Cuz I have heard nothing about this deck. I am so excited about it.

[00:22:08] I feel like in the past couple of projects you've done, we've had conversations about what this looks like, but because we haven't, unfortunately haven't chatted in so long, this one is new and exciting to me and I can't wait to hear all about it. So, at what point did you have, what, at what point did this become a bubble for you and at what point did you realize it was time to, or that, or maybe you didn't do it, At what point did the bubble make its way to you?

[00:22:34] Brigit Esselmont: Yeah. Well, I think this is a really good example of where something evolves as it forms. So I wasn't sitting there in October, 2021 going, All right, I wanna like have a physical deck to sell in many, many places. Not thinking that. But what we were thinking was, you know what would be awesome is to have images of the tarot that we could use in our own materials that had the same kind of vibe as biddy tarot that really represented like our core essence and we could just use it as like digital images.

[00:23:10] And so we started creating that. And as that process happened and evolved, I could really feel like that essence of bitty tower now going into, into the, what is now gonna be the bitty tower deck and. That essence is, keeping things really clean, really simple, but also really engaging and accessible.

[00:23:35] That's really what our whole bitty tower brand is about. How do we make the tower really accessible to many people? Appealing, practical, It's easy to interpret a card, but also to apply your own intuition to that card. And so what we chose to do was, really develop a deck based on the right of weight deck.

[00:23:55] Because I think as a, as a traditionalist, I think the right of weight deck is fantastic. That is really the cho and of what we know of tarott. And I love all of the modern decks that are coming out that are completely different and abstract and what have you. But the way that bitty tower works, I thought, yeah, no, this really needs to be of the essence of the right of way tarot.

[00:24:17] And then to have our kind of flavor added to it. So, yeah. So the bitty tower deck. Let me see. I've got, I do have my like prototype , I wanna see. Yeah. So the big reveal, and I guess some of this is gonna be audio only, so let's a bit of a description. But to give you an idea, this is the TA box and this beautiful high pre stair.

[00:24:45] It's got all of the beautiful, sort of past, I guess it's pastels of the bitty tarot brand, but also that beautiful simplicity as well. And we've purposefully not filled in like facial expressions for example, because again, I want that space for people to interpret it how. They feel intuitively led to.

[00:25:06] So it's always that balance. What does a book tell you? Like what are the traditional meanings, but also listen to your intuition and what is it telling you about that card. So that's a little teaser there. Let's see. Some of my favorite cards. Okay, this is a great example. So, This is the Empress card.

[00:25:24] And again, you'll see like we have, changed skin colors and we have more diversity in the deck because I think what I've always found hard with the right of weight deck and the coloring in particular, it's very hard to relate to. And I find the coloring a little bit jarring. Those sort of like blues, reds, yellows, and so on.

[00:25:46] And, most, I'm pretty sure most of the characters are, are white in that. And we thought, well, like why does it have to be that way? That's not reflective of who we are as a global society. So we've really brought in that balance. And again, just a different, a really different color palette. Here's like the hermit.

[00:26:06] Purple background. Nice, simple design, easy.

[00:26:11] Emily Thompson: Yeah. Also, we'll be sure to include screenshots of all of this in the show notes. If you wanna go check it out for sure. Cuz these are beautiful.

[00:26:20] Brigit Esselmont: Oh, thank you. Yeah. And then in the suits, what we decided to do was kind of stick with a color palette. So like all of our suit of cups are in these, blue

[00:26:30] hues with a little bit of gold and blue is very much about emotion water. So that really reflects the suit. There. And let me see, actually this is like another example of it, like the blue and the cup. So you can see that kind of theme going along. The swords, it's a bit more of like the gold with the blue and again, that's kind of representing the feel like there's a bit of a harder feel, like a bit more masculine feel with, that color palette.[00:27:00]

[00:27:00] And then even say, let's see, Okay, yep, the pentacles you can see and now the purple and the brown gold. And finally, let me see if I can find you a ones card as well. Ones I really like the color, purple's my color, so. This has got like mostly the purple with a little bit of the blue as well. So beautiful.

[00:27:25] Yeah. Oh, and one other thing I have to show you cuz this is like, I don't know if you like cards, You're stuff gets you like, but let's see, little bit of, Oh.

[00:27:41] Emily Thompson: Yes, These beautiful purple metallic edges are gorgeous. I also love the size of these. Yes. These are not like giant, giant cards, which like, if you have tiny hands, can't do.

[00:27:54] These are a really beautiful size. I love it.

[00:27:57] Brigit Esselmont: Yeah. And then I'll just show you finally little guidebook as well. So this is 88 pages page each, for each of the cards. It has like the upright reversed keywords. A really short description and then like a journaling prompt or a, a reflection question for that particular card.

[00:28:15] So it's all neatly packed in a beautiful keepsake box. .

[00:28:20] Emily Thompson: I love it. And I can so tell that like this is, this is, this is a Brigit baby is what you're, what you're showing here. In a way, do you feel more closely tied to this deck than you did every day? Tero? Is it just like apples and oranges?

[00:28:35] Brigit Esselmont: Well, I think, I think each has their own like personality and their own essence and energy.

[00:28:41] I feel is a lot of me infused into everyday terror, just the way that I was working with the artist, there. So that feels like one expression of myself in, in that deck. And then this feels like another expression. And yeah, I also wanna say, like when you say yeah, there's a lot of Brigit, I also wanna be really clear there's a lot of bitty to team and yes, a lot of people in this deck.

[00:29:05] I always think, it does have my name on it and our brand bitty to, but like, there's so many people that contribute to this deck. We had two amazing designers work on the actual tower cards. It was not me sitting there. And you like, But we worked very closely together to make that happen.

[00:29:25] My husband, he did the deck, box design. Beautiful. Which is amazing. And we've had like our writers, our project managers like this, just, Yeah. It's a village .

[00:29:38] Emily Thompson: Yeah, I was about to say, it's, it's a Brigit deck, but it takes a village to do something like that. For sure. It is beautiful. It is really, really a beautiful deck.

[00:29:48] I'm so glad that you, you embarked and, and did this, and I also love this sort of, sort of beginner story where you were just, You're making a copyright play for tarot images, , right? You just wanted some images to use, for your site and other things. And it ended up rolling into an entire tarot deck project.

[00:30:11] And I think that really hearkens back to what we were talking about a minute ago of like, if you get over planning with the thing, you may not have actually taken the step into doing this whole project because you would've shown up just to create some images that you own. Yes.

[00:30:28] Brigit Esselmont: Yeah. Because it really wasn't until about halfway through designing the deck again for the purposes of being able to use the images in all of our materials without having to request permission and licensing and all of that sort of stuff, and to have real ownership over those, those images as well.

[00:30:49] But yeah, halfway through that design process we're like, Oh, We're creating a full tower deck here, wonder what it would take to print these things and turn it

[00:31:00] Emily Thompson: into a, your soul. It will take your soul to print these things. I bet.

[00:31:05] Brigit Esselmont: I know. Yes, yes, that's right. Because I think you are right, Like if, if we'd set out at the very beginning and like I'm, I'm quite logical.

[00:31:14] I do full costing analysis and I figure out, okay, this is probably gonna cost this much and this is the return on that investment and how long it would take to pay back. If we'd done that, like then, I don't know that we would've like moved ahead with it. Or you'd go, Oh my gosh, that's gonna be a 1218 month commitment.

[00:31:32] Oh, can we really, fit that in? Probably not. No. Okay. Don't do it. Like, that's where things get stalled. But sometimes I think if you just break things down and go, Okay, what if we just create a digital image? Let's just try that. Oh, okay. Now we've done that. How about we just, let's just try doing a deck

[00:31:49] Yeah. Like, that's how things can involve more so

[00:31:54] Emily Thompson: as you're saying this, I even think about this very podcast literally right here, right now. I feel like if Kathleen and I had sat down eight years ago or however long ago it was, and been like, Okay, let's, let's think about what this is going to be.

[00:32:09] We're gonna produce a podcast, It's gonna turn into a business. I'm gonna buy her out. We're gonna do events, I'm gonna do it by like eight years later. Would I have done it? No

[00:32:22] Sometimes it's starting with like this pure little nugget of, I just wanna do this little thing and really following it that can lead you to, one of the coolest things you do. And I think, I think this, I I love that you did not start making a tarot Deck .

[00:32:38] Brigit Esselmont: Yeah. Cause that like, that's why I love doing the Everyday To was so fabulous because Running Press made it so easy.

[00:32:47] Eleanor, the artist and I, two, three months design the deck and then I handed over and running Press come back and they've got a beautifully made deck. I was like, Oh, that's fantastic. And then we can have it in [00:33:00] like so many stores. Like, I'm so grateful for that experience. Yeah. And yeah, then self-publishing.

[00:33:07] Whole different type of experience. You're responsible for every step of the way. Yeah. Actually I just wanna cycle back to this whole thing of like, if, could you really have planned the entire thing at that? Like, for you eight years ago? I really believe, like as entrepreneurs, as leaders, business owners were always evolving.

[00:33:29] And we're always upleveling. And so your, like a year ago self was nowhere near who you are now. And there's no way that that person could really process and comprehend what's possible now. And even over the course of like 12 months, I don't think myself was ready 12 months ago to really contemplate or seriously consider, a deck and then what's next?

[00:33:55] I think what also happens is that at the same time you've got all these other things that are happening in the business that are showing potential or not potential. And then you start to see like connecting the dots, you're going, Oh wow. Okay. Yep. If we had a physical deck, maybe that's a way that we could, have new people join our email list just by advertising more of the deck.

[00:34:16] And then now we've attracting people who we know it interested in tower. Oh, okay. Yep. Now there's a bit more weight to creating a tarot deck as a lead generation tool. Oh, maybe we could have it, like

[00:34:28] Emily Thompson: there are easier ways to generate leads.

[00:34:38] Brigit Esselmont: But, But I like to challenge myself. Yes.

[00:34:44] Emily Thompson: No, I think you're right. I think you're right. I think, like you said, the bubble will come to you one at its time and sometimes you won't even know what all is in that bubble until you like really dig in and see the thing. I also think, I think that sometimes creative ideas like that are like an iceberg, right?

[00:35:02] Like for you is just like, what I see in front of me is a need for images that I own, that I can use, without permission or royalties or whatever it may be. And so you see that little tip of the iceberg and you're like, Okay, great. This is a great idea. And once you get there, you realize that the potential of this little idea that you had is so great that how could.

[00:35:26] Not continue the thing. And I think that's even part of what you're saying too, is you can't see the potential, until you're ready to, and sometimes you're not ready until you're there doing it.

[00:35:37] Brigit Esselmont: Yes. And you know what, just cuz I like tarot, I've gotta tell you, this reminds me so much of, Oh, where is he again?

[00:35:45] The hermit card. Right? I'm just seeing if we can find it in my deck. Duh. I cannot. That always happens. But, okay. So the hermit is there on like the top of a mountain with his lanter. It's the dead of night. The lanter will only [00:36:00] show you the next sort of one or two meters or meat or whatever you use. Yards or something

[00:36:07] Anyway, the next little bit ahead of you. Yeah. It doesn't show you the full journey. And the hermit is wise enough to know that all he needs to do is keep putting one foot in front of the other. And the next step will be revealed. And so you just keep taking a step and the next step will be revealed.

[00:36:23] Take a next step, and the next step will be revealed. Like that's, to me, that is. That feels like a newer way for me of how to do business. Cause in the past I was like, No, I wanna know what's my, what's happening in the next month, in the next three months, and so on. But now I'm really seeing that actually all will be revealed as you keep going and you can hold these possibilities still in the future.

[00:36:47] It's good to have the awareness. They're in new conscious awareness, but oftentimes you just have to applaud forward. One step after the other to see what's next.

[00:36:56] Emily Thompson: For sure. I also feel like that even goes back to what we were, what we opened up with, this idea of what entrepreneurship is in this online space of, you don't know , what's going to happen in a month or three months or six months, especially in this space.

[00:37:09] So we all need to be hermits,

[00:37:13] Brigit Esselmont: Like doing nothing.

[00:37:18] Emily Thompson: But otherwise just like, just trusting the process in a, in a whole different way and showing up along the way and, gaining the wisdom and all the things, all the things along the way.

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[00:38:13] To get started today,

[00:38:19] if you were to pinpoint a way in which this deck is. Different from every day, tarot and May. This can be like a personal situation. You can think about it in terms of like, in producing this thing other than the fact that now you can use these images anywhere and everywhere you ever, So please,

[00:38:35] What, what is that for you? What makes this deck different? Yeah.

[00:38:40] Brigit Esselmont: I think what is really special about Everyday Tower is it's a mini deck. Yeah. So it's, it's cute, small, it can go into your, purse. It's very affordable. Again, that's what I'm really grateful for with going through Running Press, is that they're able to manufacture these decks in a way that is really affordable and so it can reach out to many, many people.

[00:39:03] So knowing all of that, we wanted this to be like, almost like a sister deck, a sister deck to everyday tower, but something that has its own character and its own personality, so that it could actually be, its standalone self and have its destiny in its soul and all of this yummy stuff.

[00:39:19] So the way that, bitty ta has its fullest expression. It's a larger deck, like we've saw it fits really nicely in your hands. It's actually, Oh, I'm gonna side note onto to a little funny story. Really still. I think it's funny. So because we all love everyday tower, we seem to like, maybe subconsciously have that as a reference point.

[00:39:45] So when we were designing the bitty tower deck, I seemed to have missed this small detail and excused the pun because when we were designing the deck and then we went to get it like printed to go, Oh yeah, how does it look? It showed up, It's this size, which if you can't see the video is a lot smaller.

[00:40:05] this was like a little mini deck. I'm like, Oh my goodness. When we messed up, like what's happened, it's turned into a mini deck. So, we had to kind of scramble and get it turned into the larger deck, which is this size, which isn't actually a typical TA deck size. Usually the tarot decks are a little bit more skinny, but I actually quite like having it a little bit wider because it's, again, it's got its own vibe.

[00:40:30] It gets to be itself, doesn't have to fit the box of, what TA cards should be. So yes, that's, that's that piece. But I think what else makes it, different? I think just the aesthetic is beautiful. It's, it's something that's really shareable. And again, because we want tarot in the mainstream really accessible.

[00:40:52] One of the big things is, if you love reading tarot, you may be a bit worried about if anyone. Likes reading tarot or if they're gonna think you're a bit weird. So we wanted a deck that you could easily just like pull a card and share it on your Instagram, whether or not you know you're a TA reader, and share it in a way that you feel proud and that sharing it is gonna feel good.

[00:41:14] So, The imagery, the aesthetic, the feel of it is, it's accessible. Do you know what, you know what I'm trying to say? It's like, it, it's easy to share, it's easy to feel really good about and to feel proud about reading tarot. So that is really the essence, of, of this stack. And just, yeah, just make it look beautiful and make it look now, but also respect the tradition of tarot and the wisdom that has grown over the last, a hundred plus years, with tarot.

[00:41:45] So yeah, that is the video tower deck. , I'm

[00:41:48] Emily Thompson: so glad you're like putting another stamp in this place and one that is more directed by you. I cannot wait to hold it in my hands. I wanna ask a little bit about the process, if you don't mind me digging [00:42:00] in just a little bit. Because as someone who runs a whole product business, I know that creating products is a nightmare.

[00:42:07] Yes. Yes it is. And printing is like, is y'all, if y'all want to see me get. You're gonna ask the team when it comes to prepping print files or designing for like, I can design Okay. For print. Like, that doesn't give me haves when it comes to those final print files. And god forbid sending them to the printer, , I lose it.

[00:42:30] That's the least cool. You will ever see me right there. So the idea of tackling something like this that's not just the cards, but the box and the book and all, like how much fun have you had

[00:42:46] Brigit Esselmont: so much? It's been such an amazing learning process. . Yep. But yeah, it is, it is a process, right?

[00:42:55] So initially I thought it was linear. I thought it. Design deck design, box design things, handover, get sample, approve sample, start printing start, pre-order ship done harrah. It's not like that unfortunately. It's very clearly . So I think we're up to like sample. I don't know. I've got so many biddy tarot boxes around me right now.

[00:43:21] We're probably up to about sample four. Which probably is not too bad, in the scheme of things. But what we realized is like, even with the final sample that was produced, we're like, Great, Yep, we'll get this, we'll know, like we'll approve it and then we can go ahead and we're doing like 5,000 copies.

[00:43:41] We can just go ahead with that. We get the sample like, Oh, hang on. No, this isn't really, no, this is not like the quality that bitty tarot would produce. And, our suppliers like, Well, this is, you're just gonna have to trust us. We, this is gonna work. We know what you want. Like we've had to produce this on a, I don't, I don't get all the print terms, but like some digital thing.

[00:44:04] And then when they run the real one, they do it on a giant, massive machine that takes a long time to set up. And we're like, You know what? We can't go ahead. Printing 5,000 copies if we are not 100% good with this. Because the last thing I want is my community to receive a deck that's substandard. And if that means now, we are delaying, like we had to delay the launch a little bit.

[00:44:29] Now I understand why all this Kickstarter campaigns often start with update. I'm so sorry there's so many delays. Now I get it. . Yep. But we are just postponing our launch a little bit so that we can get it to a point where we are 100% confident that it's at the standard we expect. So thankfully our suppliers are being really, collaborative.

[00:44:52] They are going ahead and printing another sample on the actual big machine. But then, you've got like two weeks to ship it to me, to the US and we've gotta then improve it. Now we've got our QA checklist, which is like minute we check, check, check, all of the things. But hopefully once that's all signed off on, then we can just move into actual production phase and go from there.

[00:45:18] It's, and then equally like on the other end, what's really interesting is like, entrepreneurial mind, Let's go big, let's get this on, wholesale, Amazon. Let's get influences like, Oh, and I'm like, on my team, like, come on guys. Like, we like, let's just get, where's the launch plan?

[00:45:38] And they're like, Hang on Brigit, just slow down and let's just do one launch. Let's see how that goes. Then we can start to, oh, through phase by phase, roll it out and go big. Because if you go big on something, maybe there's a little blip that you haven't anticipated, you can't fix it. So, I'm learning just [00:46:00] to , trust, surrender, let go, dial back a little bit.

[00:46:05] But without knowing, like I'm not dialing back on the whole thing. Like I'm still giving it its space and energy to be really big, but in due due course in its own. It's kind of like a game with babies. I had a bit of a gestation period thing going on at the start of, this interview, but, babies generally can't force the time that the baby's gonna be born.

[00:46:28] Baby will be born when baby and mom are ready to go. And I really feel that now with this deck. I've just gotta trust, trust the timing. Yeah,

[00:46:38] Emily Thompson: and I, it's funny as you're saying this, I feel like this is also a product of like, being in the online space where you're so used to things just moving so quickly.

[00:46:45] You wanna create a course, it can be done in three weeks. You wanna like, ebook, five minutes, , whatever it may be. It's so quick and easy. Do these things when you're operating in real world products, and especially if you are managing the manufac. It takes time and it's so hard to adjust your timeline when you're so used to the rest of business moving so quickly.

[00:47:07] Like you're almost having to live or exist in two worlds, right? This online world where everything moves really quickly and then the physical world where like it's gonna take two weeks for you to even get it in the mail.

[00:47:21] Brigit Esselmont: Yeah. It's so weird. You're like, Come on Shirley, you can teleport this thing. , right?

[00:47:25] You just can

[00:47:25] Emily Thompson: download it.

[00:47:27] Brigit Esselmont: You just send the email and you get the PDF or you get access to the course and this. It's like postage. What even is that ?

[00:47:36] Emily Thompson: Oh, but I'm so excited. I'm so excited for you to be going through this process and, and doing this in this way. I'm wonder. Why fits or why tradition? No, not why tradition?

[00:47:47] Why not traditionally publish this one? Why? Well, actually I know that copyrights, but were there any other reasons why you decided to keep bay manufacturing of this in-house for

[00:47:57] Brigit Esselmont: yourself? Yeah, I think partly it's also just more control over the product and what you can do with it, how you leverage it.

[00:48:06] Because we have the opportunity now with this deck to add it as an upsell to an order. We can add it as a bonus to something. We can advertise it on Facebook. We can, like, there's so many things that we can do where it will feed our beautiful bitty tower system. Like we can really integrate it a lot more.

[00:48:29] I mean, that may be a possibility with a traditionally published item. I don't know. We haven't really fully explored that, but this felt like the easiest way. Even with a tarot app, now we have our own kind of digital product. It opens so many more doors to what we can do because we have that sort of, Yeah, more ownership I think.

[00:48:54] But there are pros and cons with both. I don't wanna kind of like say Ros offing so much better because it's not like, it's, it's hard work and like I, I think every day tarot has been blessed with that massive distribution that I don't think we'll be able to, we won't replicate that with video tower.

[00:49:14] I'd love to think that we can, but I think realistically going with a traditional publisher gives you that huge, access. But this gives us a tool to work with in our whole bitty verse. And to really serve that, that energetic vortex I suppose. And I kinda like the challenge

[00:49:37] Yeah. I like doing new things. My team would probably kick me for like, Fri was just for the challenge. It's, Cause they have to do the front of the work. So no, but I do, I I think it's a good challenge. And it's also, we were like, what does it look like to do physical product? Because going back to how things are changing, the online course world is changing online, digital products is changing.

[00:50:09] I think people are having a bit of a hangover now because during the pandemic, oh, let's buy lots of courses and then, oh, the course guilt kind of kicks in. Like, I haven't done them all. So maybe there are different avenues to reach people through physical product, that might like we just wanna be able to test it, is that a way that we can reach more people, different people as well?

[00:50:32] So full gamut of things.

[00:50:34] Emily Thompson: For sure. I also love that it just contributes to the diversification of your revenue streams, right? You have the traditional and you have a self-published, and you have these digital things and you have certification program and like, and, and, and, and in a world that is changing as quickly as this one is, why not diversify?

[00:50:51] You absolutely should be. Right? And so this is just adding another one of those arms to an already amazing brand and company, which is a

[00:51:00] Brigit Esselmont: great move. And if you think too about like how do you increase, say, the value of your business or the sustainability of your business, it's by creating a web that is unique, that cannot be always hard to, very hard to replicate in any way.

[00:51:15] So the more that like. They, we create this bitty verse, which is a highly complex, sophisticated system of different products and marketing systems and so on. Like, it, it is the bitty verse. Like it has its own vortex that, someone else can't just come along and go, Oh, I'll just do exactly what they're doing.

[00:51:35] Oh, yay. Look at me. I'm the same. Not because, Yeah, good luck would be unique, .

[00:51:41] Emily Thompson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I completely agree with that. You have created, by doing it in this way, you have created something that is incredibly unique and therefore incredibly valuable. Both to, you and your team, but also just to the customers that you're serving and beyond whatever that may look like.

[00:51:58] So I love this. Any sort of last thoughts that you wanna share around this deck project? Maybe is it like fulfilling something in you, for your, like for your business? I don't know. Any last thoughts you wanna share about this process or the final product and when is it gonna be available?

[00:52:17] Brigit Esselmont: That's a million dollar question, isn't it?

[00:52:19] That's a question I ask every day.

[00:52:25] Yes. Okay. Oh, wait, what was the first part? Anything else with, the deck? I think what's most exciting is. The doors that it opens and the possibilities that it is creating. The very fact that we can have a deck, digital images, plus a physical product means that now we like being able to do an app becomes so much easier.

[00:52:50] Being able to have a new like lead generation channel becomes so much easier. Being able to like, add upsells and all these, all of the things. Or just starts to open new, new doors. So I think I'm really excited about that. Even like, influences, I just get like, TA on TikTok, some of these people have won 2 million followers, I think.

[00:53:13] Wow. If we could have the video tower deck in their hands and they love it, like what would that look like? We're not quite ready to do that yet. But I just, I see all of this in our future and I think if, if that they'd open up a door, then wow, what's on the other side of that door? Cuz maybe there's a whole different, all these other things that we could do that we don't even know yet.

[00:53:34] So that's the hermit and these light and showing up different things. Okay, so when can you get the deck? Best thing to do,

[00:53:47] sign up for the wait list. And at this stage, we are. Hoping for somewhere around December, or maybe January of 2023, so it's not too far. Like we are, like seriously, we are very close, to being at a point where we go, Yep. Now we know the timeline. So basically we're gonna get the sample approved, then we start the bulk printing, and then we have a much better idea.

[00:54:18] We know from that point it's two months until it arrives. So, and we, like, we do wanna do a pre-order. So that's what the great thing is about the wait list is you'll get first dips on the pre-order. But we wanna make sure that pre-order is not too much. Like, oh, I'm sorry, it's six months later you'll get your deck.

[00:54:36] No, we wanna make sure that's nice and tight with when we know we can ship. So that's my roundabout answer on that one.

[00:54:43] Emily Thompson: Love it. Love it. I mean, I think it just illustrates the reality of, of, of getting into this part of business, right? Whenever you are producing something like this on this volume with the kinds of standards that you have, which you should have.

[00:54:56] And I think that, that taking the time to make sure that all the things really are exactly the way you need to is imperative. Mm-hmm. , Then that's sort of where you start playing is like these like very liquid timelines where you're just at the, at the, what am I saying here at the, whims of.

[00:55:18] So many people and so many factors. I hope some ports don't shut down or like, or like really crazy things like that. Like really crazy things can start happening when you start playing in this real business. But I also love that you are recognizing the, the benefits for, for the entire company is to having something like this, in, in your.

[00:55:42] Kind of literally it could fit in your pocket. .

[00:55:45] Brigit Esselmont: Yeah, definitely. Yep. And we're already like using the digital images in different products and free resources and so on. So yeah, it's already coming into being, it's just trusting that process that everything will happen exactly as it's meant to at that time.

[00:56:02] Absolutely.

[00:56:04] Emily Thompson: Absolutely. Well, Brigit, thank you so much for coming and sharing all of this sort of behind the scenes of this new project of yours. I cannot wait to see what it all ends up looking like. And I also just can't wait to see in general what you do next, because you always have something up your sleeve.

[00:56:18] Brigit Esselmont: Thank you. Yes, it's very exciting. Who knows what's ahead. I don't know. .

[00:56:23] Emily Thompson: Right. We'll see. We'll see. Okay. Other than the deck, where can people find more about you and bitty tarot?

[00:56:31] Brigit Esselmont: Yes. So for Biddy Tarot, you can go to biddytarot.com. We're also at Biddy tarot on Instagram. And we are doing some really fun, content there.

[00:56:40] So join Instagram and our biddy tarot profile. For me personally, I also have, an Instagram profile. It's at Brigit Esselmont. I think you pop that in the show notes. Brigit, like Digit, . . And yeah, that's, that's pretty much it. I, I'd love to see people coming into our, into our bitty verse and learning more about tarot, because it is like really is a tool for everyone.

[00:57:08] It's a great tool to access intuition and just to really access that in a part of your yourself. So yeah, hopefully we see you on biddytarot.com

[00:57:17] Emily Thompson: for sure. Awesome. Yes, we will include links to all of that stuff in the show notes. Also, everyone know that I love Brigits every day tarot deck, which I mentioned before, but I just wanna reiterate and I will be snagging one of these new ones for sure.

[00:57:31] Also, Brigit's like bitty tarot book, like your book of, of card meanings is impeccable . It's like, it's a, it's a

[00:57:41] Brigit Esselmont: tone. a lot. Yes. Quite large.

[00:57:46] Emily Thompson: It's amazing. It's amazing. So highly recommend all of the things. And we will include links to everything in our show notes. And Brigit, I have one last question for you.

[00:57:55] What's making you feel most boss?

[00:57:57] Brigit Esselmont: Oh, chatting to you.

[00:58:00] Emily Thompson: Oh my god. . It's always Okay. Perfect answer and we're done. Anything else, ?

[00:58:10] Brigit Esselmont: Well, let's see. Do you know what, I think it's taking time for myself cuz that actually feels really boss. Yeah. The more that I take time for myself, the more I'm trusting my team and giving them space to be awesome, which they are.

[00:58:25] And I'm honoring my own, entrepreneurial journey, which is to have that spaciousness to really care and nurture for. So that your energy is strong and vibrant and clean to support the business, to support your community, all of those things. So maybe that's another topic for another day.

[00:58:44] Emily Thompson: Indeed, indeed. I would definitely love to dive into that. Definitely not four years from now. Significantly sooner, please, . Perfect. Brigit, thank you so much for coming. This has been fantastic.

[00:58:56] Brigit Esselmont: Aw, my pleasure. Thank you, Emily.[00:59:00]

[00:59:01] Emily Thompson: All right, boss, because you're here, I know you want to be a better creative business owner, which means I've got something for you each week. The team at Being Boss is scouring the news, the best entrepreneurial publications and updates and releases of the apps and tools that run our businesses, and is curating it all into a weekly email that delivers the must know tips and tactics in the realms of mindset, money, and productivity.

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