Surprising Business Lessons – LIVE from New Orleans

Kathleen Shannon 0:02
Hello, and welcome to being boss,

Emily Thompson 0:05
a podcast for creative entrepreneurs. I'm Emily Thompson. And I'm Kathleen Shannon.

In this episode of being boss, we're live from New Orleans. We are here for our fourth being boss vacation. And so far it's been a blast.

Kathleen Shannon 0:31
I mean, it has been so much fun.

Emily Thompson 0:33
And in case it's not fun enough that we're that we are recording live in New Orleans. This is also our 200th episode. So you'll be following along today as Kathleen and I talk with our vacation attendees about all the lessons that we have learned about showing up and doing the work through 200 episodes of being boss. As always, you can find all the tools, books and links we reference on the show notes at WWW dot being boss dot club.

Kathleen Shannon 1:04
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Emily Thompson 2:30
Now let's do it.

Kathleen Shannon 2:31
Let's do it. So in this episode, we really want to come back and look at everything we've learned over 200 episodes. And honestly live in New Orleans, I feel like I have learned so much just in the past 48 hours. So I'm going to probably and you Emily will see some of the lessons that we've learned from the bosses in attendance showing up in this episode. And we're so excited to have a little bit of input from some of our bosses that are here live with us in New Orleans. So let's dig in because this is gonna be a big one.

Emily Thompson 3:10
Right? So as you guys probably know, especially if you have the book, we see that there are several foundations of being boss. And so what we're going to be doing today is going through each of those foundations and really hit on the points that we have found most inspirational or life and business changing along the way, because we have talked to some really awesome people. We've had some hardcore conversations between ourselves. And we've talked to so many of you. And it's funny, especially whenever we started writing the being boss book, I told Kathleen I was like this process is going to make us more boss. And I cannot reiterate, iterate and reiterate again and again. How much more boss being boss has made us. So we're gonna be going through all of that today.

Kathleen Shannon 3:58
Yeah, and I just want to make a shout out for our book here because that was a big accomplishment but we've had a few people come up to us here and say I held off on buying the book because I thought it was just gonna be more of the podcast but it's so good. And I'm not trying to like toot our own horn here but due to like it really is um we summed it all up there. Yes,

Emily Thompson 4:23
yes, it's definitely It was a business baby that we created together. And it definitely it helped us one look back at all that we have talked about and found out from recording the podcast but it also really gave us a lens through which we look at the future and what being boss will become beyond business baby number one or book baby number one into the things that we create ongoing so

Kathleen Shannon 4:49
yeah, let's Alright, let's dig in. So, Emily.

Emily Thompson 4:53
Yes, ma'am.

Kathleen Shannon 4:55
Where are you feeling with mindset whenever it comes to being boss. You know, that is the thing that we start with your thoughts are things, and they become reality. And so your mindset plays a huge role in your working life. So what have you learned over the past 200 episodes, or even over the past year,

Emily Thompson 5:15
the biggest shift that I have made is that entrepreneurship is not for everyone. This one was a really hard one for me to learn where, for a really long time I saw entrepreneurship as the solution to any job problem you could ever have. Where if you don't like your boss, or if you don't like getting up in the morning, or if you don't like the projects you're working on, or whatever it may be, then you should be your own boss. And what I've realized through having tons of conversations with bosses like those in attendance today, or with the people that I've coached with, or people for whom I've built websites, is that those of us who are doing this, who are successfully showing up and doing the work and reaping the rewards, we're not one in a million, well, maybe one in a million, several million, but not everyone can do this. And that makes us so much more special, and so capable, and so worthy of whatever worth we think we the we deserve. That was that has been the biggest shift that I have made is just how special those of us who show up and do this really, really are. And it has changed the way one I show it for myself, and to how I show up for you guys, and what I expect from you guys. And then also, it's also rillette. It's also allowed me to release a lot of the expectations that I have for everyone else, which has made traveling through life in general significantly more easy,

Kathleen Shannon 6:48
huh? Well, in with that, I think a big mindset that I've learned over 200 episodes, we use the word entrepreneur pretty loosely. I don't know that I'm like a capital E entrepreneur, I thought I was because I worked for myself. But the more I've learned about working for myself, the more I've learned that I'm kind of a hybrid between a freelancer and a small business,

Emily Thompson 7:16
I remember the day that you realize this. And it was like a light came on, where Kathleen had been pushing herself to be the entrepreneur to work on a level that does not resonate with how you best show up. And that was also around the same time that I was realizing that not all of us are actually entrepreneurs. And one of the things that we've been doing for a very long time is defining for ourselves and for others, what the difference is between a freelancer, a business owner, and an entrepreneur. And that I'm sure will be a whole episode itself in the future. But it has been really interesting to watch you figure out what you are along the way to.

Kathleen Shannon 8:02
And I would still loosely say like, Yes, I'm a creative entrepreneur, I would identify with that. But what it's done is it's released, the need to keep up with all the Joneses, to keep up with all the entrepreneurs that I admire who are making money in their sleep and having million dollar launches on there, you know, courses and products. I like working with clients, I like building a team. I like just doing it in a guess if anything, what I really learned over 200 episodes is that it really goes back to the basics. And it goes back to the basics of what feels true for you. And so that's been a big shift. I feel like I'm just coming full circle to some of the things that I was thinking about and learning whenever I first started my business, and really coming back to that, giving it all away for free, being generous with your gifts of knowledge. And you know, really focusing on the client work, like I'm coming back to client work. And that's really fun, too. But I'm not getting paid if I don't have clients. And so that's been really exciting. And at the same time still admiring people like Emily, who are capital E entrepreneurs who are still dedicated and devoted to building that kind of empire as well. And just acknowledging that we're all going to be doing it in different ways. And that is okay.

Emily Thompson 9:22
Can we talk about the sort of defining moment that we realized? Well, you may not know I don't remember. Let me tell you what was happening. So it was a moment when Kathleen and I realized how we preferred getting paid. And that Kathleen wants to do work and get paid for it. Like pretty immediately, like do the work, get paid. I'll do the work, do the work, do the work, do the work, do the work so that someday I'll get paid. And I think that's a very vuca somewhat definitive definition. We can say that twice of what an entrepreneur is and how that is different from maybe a small business owner and especially a freelancer or I don't mind building and building and building. I joke not joke, but joke often that I still work for free a lot, a whole lot, because I'm doing things to get paid in the future. I'm creating the thing, pouring passion into things. And that lifestyle is not for everyone.

Kathleen Shannon 10:22
Kathleen, it is not for I want to do the work and I want to get paid. Right. So

Emily Thompson 10:29
a little difference. And I don't know preference.

Kathleen Shannon 10:32
Yeah. And but I love that, like we can be friends and business besties through it. And that took what four years of conversation to figure that out?

Emily Thompson 10:41
Yep. And we can be Yes, friends and business besties, but also business partners, and realize that we have different preferences and how it is that we show up to do basically the same work.

Kathleen Shannon 10:52
Yeah. All right, anything else that you've learned with mindset.

Emily Thompson 10:58
We talk a lot about values, if you haven't noticed. And one of the things that I've really found myself getting a lot of value out of is that value practice, if we can use the word value 18 more times than the next five sentences. I love that we've really uncovered this idea of defining what it is that you value and aligning not only you know, these sort of core beliefs and these things you write down and these platitudes you paste up and you never practice but actually how it is that you build a business and you show up in your work and in your life. That when again, one of those things, you hear people say your lamp, that's cute, like, of course that's so obvious, and it makes sense. But actually practicing it part of, you know, writing the book and creating the courses and doing things where we are focusing on you guys knowing what it is that you value and showing up in practicing that is that we've had to practice it ourselves. And we have found that it absolutely works. And it makes us feel really good about the work that we do.

Kathleen Shannon 11:59
So one of the things that I've really been thinking about a lot, whenever it comes to mindset is cultivating confidence. That's the one thing that we kind of come back around to time and time again, we've had our confidence shaken at times, and a lot of our listeners come to us asking about frati feelings, and how can I know my worth? And how can I just feel better about putting one step in front of the other. And I think that we've both had a year where our confidence has been shaken because we've done big, risky, exciting things. And I guess I suppose this episode is a little bit of coming back to things that I've said before and saying Maybe I was wrong. And I have new ideas. And that's cool, too. Over 200 episodes, I hope our ideas have evolved. And one of the things that I've always said is that you don't have to be inspired to do the work. And I undervalued inspiration. And I have found that this year, I don't necessarily need to be inspired to do the work, I can go through the motions. And we can talk about habits and routines and those things that support you whenever you're not feeling, you know, super excited or inspired or motivated. But I do need to be inspired to create something I'm proud of, and something that I can't help but create in my off hours. Or, you know, even if I have a task of to do list, the thing that will make me excited to show up and you know what, I'm going to push all my other tasks to the side. So I can write this thing or create this thing. And so I have found that the inspiration comes from the stuff that feels like life, the stuff that feels like memory makers, or the stuff that feels just a little bit next level the things that you can't really grab on to the intangible. And so I undervalued inspiration. And so I think that maybe over the next 200 episodes, I will be chasing that a little bit more, I will be looking for inspiration and trying to put my way put myself in the way of beauty and inspiration. And New Orleans is a great place to do that. But to say welcome to it.

Emily Thompson 14:15
Right, agreed. And that's something again, that we found out along the way is yes, we can show up and just do the tasks. But extra magic goes into it when you're actually excited about doing the tasks.

Kathleen Shannon 14:28
All right, so we want to open it up to some of our bosses here in New Orleans. If there is one of you that would like to answer this prompt on the podcast. And the question is what shift in mindset has most impacted your business? All right, Monique, who has no voice, we would love to hear from you. Alright, so you're gonna come sit up here by David. Okay.

Emily Thompson 14:55
I'm Monique. My website I guess is Monique Nicole childbirth. Education. And I teach childbirth education. And it was really, I had an epiphany. While one day I was getting ready for my class. And I was like, Oh my god, all these people paid me because they know, I know my stuff. And I was like, Yeah, I do know my stuff. And every single time I got a little nervous, because sometimes I just don't want to go, it's Wednesday my bed. You know, it's a two hour class and I talk the entire time. I don't know, I just was like, they actually trust me, because they know that I know it. And I'll say, I know that I love this. And it was so exciting. And then I also got super relaxed. I didn't feel stressed around it, because my students know I know it, you know. So that was that was huge for me. Thank you.

Kathleen Shannon 15:47
I love the idea of your students trusting you cultivating more trust in yourself. And then that shifts into a relaxed state in which you can share and teach even more. Thank you, Monique, for sharing.

Emily Thompson 16:02
All right, let's talk about some habits and routines. Because we often talk to the people that we're interviewing, and even like just experts that we're talking to you on the side, like what are you doing all day? Tell me about your morning routine? How are you getting ready for work? What are you doing at night to wind down, we all know that habits and routines are the things that set us up for a productive day. And for getting all the things done that we want to get done. So we've learned a thing or two about habits and routines.

Kathleen Shannon 16:33
Yeah, so one of the we talked a lot about habits and routines in our rituals and routines episode. And that was a lot of personal routines like morning routine. So you can catch up on that episode, I'm not going to tell you any more about the Himalayan salt water that I drink or the walks that I go on or the working out, I want to talk more about a professional habit and routine that has been a game changer. So for me, I moved from my physical agency space in Oklahoma City, across the country to Detroit. And I've always worked remote with Emily on being boss. And one of the things that we do at being boss is we have a weekly FaceTime check in. For us, it's sometimes daily. But really using that dedicated time that is on our calendar to check in with each other and have a management meeting is so important. It has that accountability in there, it has that time where you can talk through and brainstorm. And so I've started implementing this, this is something we're good about being boss, I've really started implementing it with my team over at braid, we are all very autonomous, we are all very in charge of our own work and what we're doing. But you have to remember that part of your company culture, like company, culture is an important part of your business as well. And so even if everyone's checking off the tasks and to dues, checking in face to face allows you to start to brainstorm and create and just feel connected to each other. And that's a word that I keep seeing coming up at this vacation as a value that is so incredibly, incredibly important. So how do I stay connected to my team? How do I stay accountable to my team? How do I hold them accountable? weekly, FaceTime check ins is huge. And so that is a habit and routine that I've put in place.

Emily Thompson 18:27
Yeah, and this can really easily translate to solopreneurs as well. And so I have a couple of groups with whom I check in with let's say every other week, I have a mastermind group, which is a peer mastermind group couple business besties. Basically, we're getting together every other week and have for a year and a half. And that is one of the most important meetings that I have on my schedule every day or every other week. I'm not getting paid to do it. It's not you know, giving me a nice harass or anything like that, like I'm not working out. It's not it's one of those things that making those connections and nurturing those relationships is just as important as anything else that I'm doing any other day of the week.

Kathleen Shannon 19:10
You guys as important as those deadlifts

Emily Thompson 19:12
just as important as those. And likewise, you can also just do monthly calls with a business bestie or even your friend so my mastermind group that I do every other week, we recently had a conversation about how I know more about what's going on in her life than I do most of my real life friends. I was like that's actually kind of a problem. So making that same sort of commitment to your real life friends, is also super important. Hopefully, obviously, but I forget.

Kathleen Shannon 19:46
And then what about you Emily? whenever it comes to habits and routines, probably on a more professional level, because again, we've talked about all the personal things we do. What habit or routine Have you been practicing more of our culture eating more of or really implementing.

Emily Thompson 20:02
One that I practice consistently and I think is an undervalued skill for most small business owners or entrepreneurs, is project management. That is one skill that I think is golden and completely mandatory. And as something that I have made a hardcore routine of practicing daily and weekly. And so if you are not a highly organized person, one, maybe get some help and become more organized. And to if you can't do it yourself, get someone to do it for you. Because very often, I'll find creatives who have so many inspiring ideas, or maybe they just have like that one amazing that idea that they're trying to act on, but they can't manage the project enough to actually make it happen. So for me, I begin my week, every Monday morning with sitting down and looking at my entire week ahead. And so I'll see what's due, what it is that I have to do, what meetings are on my schedule, I'm managing all of my projects on a weekly basis. And then I'm also doing it pretty daily as well, I'll do it for my team, I'll do it for myself, I'm going in and just consistently looking ahead and seeing what it is what it is that I have to do, and making sure I'm able to show up every day ready to do that thing. I also, it is part of my routines that every time we start a project, it's part of my processes. Every time we start a project, I completely map out the entire thing so that I'm not overwhelmed when I get into the middle of it, or I'm not missing out on things as I start to dive in. Project Management is a skill that I think everyone should have if you want to run a business. And I think it has to be a part of your habits and routines and ongoing thing that you are practicing in order for you to accomplish all the wonderful things that you want to accomplish.

Kathleen Shannon 22:03
Were you ever bad at project management? Yes, we're like, what was that transition then from? Like, what habit and routine did you actually have to put in place from going from unorganized to organized,

Emily Thompson 22:17
I don't think it was any one thing. And Cory can attest to this, all of my crazy attempts at Project Management back in the day, it was trying all kinds of things it was and for me, it was a mindset shift around, you know, who it's all grossing me out, because it's everywhere. And I don't know what to do next. And understanding that for me to be profitable and effective and efficient, I had to figure it out. And so we began trying out all kinds of things around different different pieces of software, we tried note cards, or the note cards that we had, there was a bulletin board with note cards do I like that it was fine.

Kathleen Shannon 22:54
It was like a braid style organization, doesn't it?

Emily Thompson 22:58
It it totally worth it actually, that one got us through one of the biggest, or the busiest seasons that we've ever had, or we ever had in websites, was seeing everything that needed to be done being scared about it. And knowing that if I could just manage the projects, it would all get done. And so it was a shift around knowing that it was a mandatory part of becoming profitable, and to testing all the things until we found something that worked.

Kathleen Shannon 23:27
I also love that it wasn't just the act of being organized that help you get organized, it was profitability, and efficiency and these other support values that motivated you that took you over the edge of a well, I should be more organized to actually having that incentive.

Emily Thompson 23:44
Yeah, and it does great things for your clients as well. So in the service industry, if your stuff is a mess, your clients aren't going to be very happy. And no one likes an inbox full of angry clients. So if nothing else is a motivator for you think about walking into a happy inbox every day.

Kathleen Shannon 24:04
Alright, I would love to hear from one of you what habit or routine in your work really helps you feel supported and grounded or efficient and profitable, Rochelle.

Unknown Speaker 24:21
Hi, I'm Rochelle. And my website is the art of loving money. And one of my favorite habits and routines that I use through my life. And my business is goal setting yearly. And I use those weeks in between Christmas and New Year's and I just kind of really get dreamy and fill up a notebook and then I go through and I pick three to five items that I want to make sure I get done in the next year. And then I set up my savings to automatically draft to that so that I know no matter what else I do with my money, I'm getting those three to five things done and I also do those quotes Li and assign nine things that I want to do in 90 days. And they can be small or they can be big. But if you put something on the calendar every 10 days, like you're like waking up excited for life every single day. Because it's like, oh, yeah, it's Wednesday. And today I'm going to like, get the ingredients to make that homemade cheesecake for the first time. Or maybe I'm going to plan out a trip to Ireland, or I'm going to whatever it is, it could be bigger, it could be small. But I think inserting goal setting into small increments makes a huge difference in my life.

Emily Thompson 25:37
I agree. And my favorite thing about this is you creating automations to support your goals. Thank you. Now we know our bosses and we know that many of you are looking to easily sell online courses and memberships and digital downloads to your audience. Well, we found a solution for you in podia. You're all in one digital storefront where you can sell your online boss creations in one place. With no technical knowledge needed, no third party plugins required and zero transaction fees start selling today with a 14 day free trial of podia. And as an exclusive offer to the being boss listeners 15% off for life by going to podia.com slash boss. That's pod I a.com slash boss.

Next up, we're talking about boundaries. So we have talked with so many of you guys about boundaries this week that we're going to continue talking about.

Kathleen Shannon 26:45
Alright, what are your feelings around boundaries right now? Do you have any updates or anything you would like to amend from what we've chatted about over the past 200 episodes,

Emily Thompson 26:54
I feel like I've always been pretty, pretty steady on this one. But maybe I've just been practicing it enough that I'm going to add enthusiasm to make boundaries. But then break them breaking your boundaries and owning that. And we have recently talked to Caroline Kelsey Kozak, who gave me a really great little phrase that I will continue using forever this idea of permission with boundaries. So this idea that you will break your boundary, you're going to give yourself permission to break the rules, but you're going to create another boundary around that. So for example, let's say one of the things that I've been doing recently, is I have been working more than I like to so I usually have a hardcore boundary around 30 hours a week, that's as much as I'm going to work. But over the past couple of months, it's been slipping into 35 4045, maybe 50, a time or two. And but I knew I was doing it because I had things I needed to accomplish, period. So I gave myself permission to break my rules. But I set myself a deadline, knowing that once I get to this date, I'm going back to my old boundaries, and things are going to be all right again. And what that does is it removes the guilt that you have from breaking your rules. And it gives you permission to just do the thing that you need to do. But with a boundary that gets you right back on track. And whenever you do that you maintain control in areas where you may feel like you're losing control, and you're able to realign yourself with ease.

Kathleen Shannon 28:38
Alright, y'all, I have to tell you the truth here about boundaries, they will be tested. That is why they're called boundaries. And if they weren't being tested, you wouldn't need boundaries. Right. And so I think the idea here around boundaries I want to share today is to not take it personal whenever someone is testing your boundaries. So, you know, before we started this podcast conversation, we were having a masterclass with freshbooks talking all about pricing. And pricing is one of those places where we kind of don't know where our boundaries are, it can be real, it can be tricky, is what I'm saying. And people get real defensive or take it personal. Whenever someone tests the boundaries of your price. For example, you might feel like you're wrong, you're not wrong. Someone is just standing at the edge of your fence trying to get in, right. And so I think it really is truly not taking it personal and more specifically, I think creating scripts around your boundaries, having go to language that you can say whenever your boundaries are being tested, is really super helpful. So maybe you have a price for your offering. And someone says that's too expensive. Your boundary might be if you're going to break your boundaries, like it might be, oh, well, I can go less or I can take this thing out. Or it could be simply, well, this is what it costs. This is my boundary, this is the barrier to entry. So again, just not taking it personal and not making yourself wrong when your boundaries are being tested.

Emily Thompson 30:23
One of my favorite boundaries, things that I've learned is that physical boundaries are step number one. And this one always surprises people who are like, what are your favorite boundary, I'm like my office door. I think a lot of times, we talk about like, all these mindsets, and all these things that we forget that like physical boundaries are also super important, and very practical, and should be used. So if there's one thing I've learned, it's one how important they are in to some tactics for using them. And, again, with all boundaries, it's all about communication. And sometimes it's easier to have a door communicate for you.

Kathleen Shannon 31:05
Okay, I would love to hear from one of you. Where do you need to establish boundaries? And do you have any ideas on how you might start to put that boundary in place? Rachel,

Unknown Speaker 31:18
so my name is Rachel Wynn, and I'm the leader of a group called feminist founder in Washington, DC feminists founder.com. And kind of going off of this same theme with money and finances. I'm sure a lot of you guys have will hopefully have contracts. But I'm sure a lot of you will have late payment policies, which I know we were talking about earlier. But will the thing that I think was huge for me is when I finally decided to enforce it, because I think that, you know, yes, it's in your contract. It's in your paperwork. Maybe they've read it, probably not. But I think that a huge lesson learned that really impacted my business and a shift in my mindset is I have every right to enforce my contracts. And we all do. And the example I want to give is a pretty extreme. But I had a hotel client, a corporate hotel client has plenty they have they have they had the money, they paid their first two months of their invoices late. And I had a very strict policy of payments due by the fifth day of the month, and they insisted on paying via cheque says, okay, it needs to be at my house on the fifth day of every month. So, come March, today's there still wasn't a check on March 5. So instead of even saying anything, I just was like, Okay, well, in my contract, I put 5% per day on the total, which is a lot of money, especially because this contract was close to $1,000. And so I just, you know, started to keep track of that. And then halfway through the month as usual, they're like, Oh, hey, question about this, like, other invoice you sent us? What's this $800 bill? And I'm like, Oh, those are the late fees that I've been accumulating. And they're like, Oh, is that something we can? Like, talk about? Or can we like, come around? No compromise on that? And old Rachel, old little baby boss, Rachel, what is said, Sure, no problem. I'll just wave it. I mean, you know, you're a new client. I know checks are tricky. But no, no one needs to pay by cheque was being forced. So I said, I said very politely, you know, no, I sent three reminder emails is in our contract. This has been sent to the accountant and my point of contact, so I'm unfortunately not able to accommodate that request. So I charged a client $800 in late fees, in addition to their month, that month. So guess what happened the next month, they sign up for credit card auto billing, and I've never had that problem.

Kathleen Shannon 33:36
But were you also kind of like, Oh, I hope they're late every month?

Unknown Speaker 33:39
Well, after that, yes. I'm not gonna lie, that extra money was kind of nice. But I did kind of suspect that would happen and the we were able to make it work out. So I think that it's really important. I want to just share that you have a contract for a reason. And even though it's really tricky to have those tough conversations, I think it's really important to stand your ground. And just if you've done your end of the bargain, like if I hadn't talked to them all months, you know, maybe but it's in our contract I sent so many follow up emails. So give me my money.

Kathleen Shannon 34:08
Thank you, Rachel. Thank you. I love the idea of contracts being a really great boundary, because I think it's a really great place to get very clear about what you're delivering the timeline is just the most punctual piece of information of what to expect. And there's a lot of communication that goes into it. And I think that the communication doesn't stop there. Like really talking through it in plain language. Here's everything in the contract, but then there is a signature on that dotted line agreeing to it.

Emily Thompson 34:44
Right, and what's the point of having a contract if you're not going to enforce it? Right. I love that you said you had Where did she go? I'm looking for her OMG Oh, there you go. Sorry. I like looking at people when I talked to them. I love that you said you had the strict policy. See, but you had never enforced it before. I think it's important to one have strict policies. But to you can also use that as sort of that template or that script that you use, like it is, is against my policy to allow you to do this or it is in my policies that you're going to do this. People understand contracts most of the time. So if you reference them often, they won't be surprised at references too often, that's not great customer service when necessary, reference them and absolutely enforce them. And in which case, what's the point? Or unless you if you don't, what's the point? You know what I'm saying?

Kathleen Shannon 35:42
Okay, so next up, we want to talk a little bit more about community, this word gets thrown around a lot, but it is one that is near and dear to our hearts. So Emily, what are your thoughts on community these days, and really, you know, your your people, your inner circle, your tribe, but then also, all of the being boss, listeners and community at large.

Emily Thompson 36:09
So I think we all hear all the time about how it is that you need to be growing your following like, you need 1000s and 1000s of followers, like how can you get more here eight steps, do these four things, whatever it may be, the idea is growth, growth, growth. And I was one of those people, I always wanted to have a booming email list. And I wanted to have, you know, tons of likes on my Instagram posts or whatever it may be. But being boss has absolutely taught me that it's not about 1000s, it's about 10. Or it's about 20, or maybe even 50, as if probably not many more than that. And this has come from honestly vacations like this, where if we had 1000 people here, I wouldn't be able, I would not talk to any of them. Like, I would remove myself, you guys can have fun amongst yourselves, I'm going to be over here, it would be a very different kind of interaction. And I imagine the connection between you guys and the being boss brand, would be quite different. So for me, it's really been a mindset shift around what a community actually is, and a community, when that will truly support you. And that will be there for you. And that will buy from you and ask you questions and answer your questions. It isn't 1000s it's 10, or 20, or 50. And that, for me is I think, an under served mindset in the online marketing community, especially where it's all about growth and huge numbers, huge numbers that mean anything, if any, if I have learned anything, reaming boss, is that 100,000 Instagram followers only means a couple of things that you probably didn't actually consider. It doesn't usually mean what you think, or having a email newsletter list of 300,000 like 1% is opening guys, like you really actually only have an email list probably at that point of like 3000. So these big numbers don't mean all the things that you think they do. 10 people mean everything you would ever imagine.

Kathleen Shannon 38:20
I'm with you, Emily, where community I think about it a lot. And I see I see the word thrown around a lot. And I see things like, Oh, I'm building my community of 500,000 people. And I think that's not really your concern is is it It might be it might be but for me what it is, it's a feeling of belonging and connection. And that feeling of belonging and connection seems to really happen whenever it's just a little bit smaller and a little bit tighter. And so it's also shifted how I show up and how I do the work. Whereas before I might think I need to be the most popular, I need to be the smartest person in the room. Know what I really need to do is think about what I how I want people to feel, you know, and then how that facilitates a connection with me. And then also with each other and just realizing even that that's important. I know that, um, you know, as people become more popular and are more influential, like in their businesses like I mean, there are a lot of people I admire that would they would not be as approachable for me. Like I would be nervous to go up and say hello, I know that for me, whenever it comes to our community that we're creating, I always want to be able to say hello to everybody, if that makes sense. And so just really understanding that how I show up in a community in that way like it means being vulnerable. Like I we get shy to write and being vulnerable enough to put on a vacation and see if people show up and being vulnerable enough. You know, say hello to everybody, even whenever you feel like you just want to duck away. And that's what it means for me. So just this idea of belonging and connection, and then on a personal level, you know, since moving away from a lot of that community that I had in Oklahoma City and moving to Detroit, I'm really starting to see with a little bit of distance, what that looks like, too. And so that's been really interesting to again, like that testing your boundaries, to really see, to really help you define something. And so that's been instrumental in helping me define what community really is.

Emily Thompson 40:38
I love that and love what you talked about. However, you talked about vulnerability, because that's one thing that I've learned to where you know, sending out an email and having a coffee chat, we're only telling the other person about your credentials. Like, that's not vulnerability, that's not a real connection. I don't want to be their client, and I don't want them die, or me, you know, like, showing up and giving a bit of yourself and asking really great questions and listening to when the other person talks and telling about your dreams and aspirations. It's not the normal networking stick. But I find that is so much more beneficial and rewarding and creates deeper connections. And you cannot have a business, you cannot make money, I don't think I don't think I could make money and feel good about it without those kinds of connections. So we're always talking about and I know I'm doing this, like making sure you're setting up your systems, making sure you have a great product, making sure you know who your dream customer as, but are you growing a community and community can be your peers, it should also be those dream customers, it can be people that you are going to ask to mentor you someday in the future, or is going to be someone that you're going to mentor someday in the future, it is those connections that will make all the difference because one friends will tell four friends and those four friends will tell four more friends. And that's going to happen if they have a reason to talk about you. And vulnerability is what will get you out.

Kathleen Shannon 42:14
So it's kind of making me think about high school a little bit. I'm coming back to thinking about the popularity comment that I made. I want to clarify it a little bit because in high school, I was the banner playing French horn in my art classes voted most nonconformist every year surprise. And I was proud of it. I wore it like a badge. But what it meant is that I was cutting myself off from making really meaningful relationships. And I kind of missed out because I thought I had to be popular in order to fit in. I didn't realize oh no, I can just build a community with all the other band nerds and all the other partners and I feel like that's what we've done here at being boss. I'm not trying to call you all nerds. But you know what I mean, right? And I You don't have to be the most popular and I guess that's what I'm trying to say. And that's been a big lesson for me. So,

Emily Thompson 43:09
all right, what about you guys? We would love to know from a boss here. What does community look and feel like to you?

Unknown Speaker 43:17
I'm Sammy Jensen. My two companies are Flora apothecary. I've been on the podcast before Episode 117. I've been saying that a lot this weekend. And my other company is just my name Sammy Jo Jensen. So I make 100% Natural Skincare and vegan skincare. And I also do branding and marketing, freelance work. And community is the biggest thing that I have had to work on in my business. And actually my word so I have a one word theme for the year. I think Emily, you do this too. And this year, my theme was Connect. So that's like my resolution is to connect. And and as a result of that I reconnected with a good friend of mine who I've known for years. His name is Ben and he lives in Ann Arbor, you should be friends with him, Kathleen, and he is he started his own business he launched on his own two years ago, doing freelance branding and web design work and we started earlier this year, having weekly chats. So it's kind of ties a lot of things together actually. We started having weekly chats early in the morning because I have a nine to five so I would have to kind of like get ready before and then talk with him. And we got really vulnerable with each other about what it meant to be self employed. And another thing I want I knew I wanted by the end of this year was to be gainfully self employed. And so I talked with him a lot about that and then I also became more involved in the rising tide society and started going to their Tuesday's together started to reach back out to my friends and my you know the entrepreneurs in my area that I could connect with and, and really kind of build this community of people who were like minded and were already either doing the the work and being self employed, or were on their way to it. And that, in turn gave me a lot of confidence and realizing that this is a possibility, and I could do it. And in a lot of my conversations with Ben, I helped him set his boundaries. And, you know, he would be like, Oh, I took like, three, you know, two hour client calls today. And I'm like, why are you doing that? Just say, no, it's a one hour call, they get one once a month, you know, like, that's it, or whatever it is. And it just, it just kind of made me realize that this was, again, like something that I could do, and I very specifically timed coming here, and then putting in my one month notice at my full time job next week, because I knew I would have the confidence to do it. And so just just to say that, like you definitely can't undervalue community, because when you're feeling overwhelmed, you know, you're undervalued. And you, you know, you really feel like you can't make it work. just build around you, the people who have made it work or on the same, the same track as you and talk to them about it. And they'll, they'll build you up. And it's been amazing. So thank you.

Emily Thompson 46:21
First of all, congratulations. So Sammy here was at our first New Orleans vacation, and I talked to her to changing the name of her business. I'm so glad you're back here. And thank you for sharing that. It also made me think of something where you realize that none of us would be here. No one would be listening to this podcast period, if Kathleen and I didn't strongly value community and connection, period. Right. So just to punctuate that one. Something came up once I can't remember exactly what how it was that but the idea of like community literally being the most important thing of all of this, of all of the businesses that we are building, like surely you can build businesses without it. I'm sure that the kinds that we're here to show up and build, it's all based on community, we all want to connect with others, we want to serve people in some way. So that connection that community piece is is really, I think the vast underlying foundation of all of this.

Kathleen Shannon 47:27
I also want to kind of redact something I've been saying for years, which is that I will never give you permission to quit your job. It is something that we've been saying, because we can't make that decision for you. But since being on book tour, and connecting with so many people in person, one of the things I hear over and over again, is listening to you all helped me quit my job and launch my own thing. So if you need permission to quit your job, here it is. Do it What's the worst that will happen? You can always go get another job if it doesn't work. So here is your permission to quit. Holy cow. Yeah. just laying it all down in Episode 200.

Emily Thompson 48:16
Right, in which case, let's go into work. Yeah, and the things that we have learned there, I'll let you go first this time.

Kathleen Shannon 48:25
Oh, wow. I have learned that I truly can't do it all. I mean, I like to think that I can. But I've had to really sacrifice in some areas to scale and others. And this can be as little as knowing that I love doing design. And sometimes I keep it a secret that I am still designing some braid methods for my clients. Like it's just so funny because I feel like I should be in this position where I'm just creative directing, and I'm not pushing any pixels. But I want to be doing that, that makes me feel good. It makes me feel productive. It makes me feel valuable. And it helps me show up for some of the big vision work in a more authentic way. When I can design our Instagram posts, even though somebody else could do it for us. It makes me feel connected to our brand in a deeper way. And where in which we can talk about building community or writing a book or whatever bigger vision things we want to do. But also Yeah, knowing that I can't do it all has been huge. And it might mean that some months I take a pay cut or it might mean that some months I have to say no and have a little bit of fear of missing out, but that it's fine. So that's been my biggest lesson with work and really prioritizing though than what it is I do want to be doing all day and what it is I do want to be known for. What do we was that what do you think about that? Do you like it? Okay, I

Emily Thompson 49:58
like it. Okay. Sorry,

Kathleen Shannon 50:00
I'm sorry, I didn't tell if you liked it or if it made you want to throw up. Sometimes his faces are the same.

Emily Thompson 50:09
And now I'm going to redact something that we have said a gazillion times. And that is we talk often about how you need to get narrow. And I know that's even like a braid foundation. So I'm about to step on some break news. But I'm beginning to think that getting narrow isn't better. That is not the purpose of what it is that we're here to do. It's not always about getting so specific, that we know exactly who we're working for, and exactly what we're doing. Sometimes I think that for some people and many situations, that getting really broad, with your knowledge with your expertise, positions you in a way that makes you more interesting and unique and marketable than everyone else who specializing in similar things. So I love this idea of finding the differences and find the benefits between specializing versus being really broad with your knowledge. I love the idea of exploring new kinds of business models. So Sammy, you saying that you are doing your products, but then you're also doing branding and marketing. We all have windy roads. And sometimes I think that getting really narrow. takes us to a dead end. Oh, I heard that.

Kathleen Shannon 51:32
So can I can I speak on this? This is a conversation. Let's do it. Okay. So I do think about getting narrow. I mean, I think about getting narrow and widening back out, like going through a doorway is the getting narrow. And then once you're in the room, how can you start to explore, and really just kind of thinking about moving through, let's say a giant castle, right, and you're going through different doorways and walking into bigger rooms. And so I do think of getting narrow as something that can help point you in the right direction. But I will say that getting narrow has allowed me too broad and back out. It's given me the permission and confidence to broaden back out. But getting narrow, has helped me get into that definition and point me in the right direction and help me know which door I want to walk through.

Emily Thompson 52:21
I agree. I agree with that. And to continue, it's formulating as we're saying all of this. Narrow is important, especially for creatives, who need to figure out what they're doing next. We all have shiny object syndrome, for sure. And narrow is important to make sure that you are selling yourself. But I also think about you know, what is it to be a millionaire, you need seven streams of revenue, or like that's some stats in there somewhere, maybe someone needed to repeat it. Right? Like those seven streams of revenue can't all be in the same thing, or what's the fun in that, when you can do several different things. And sometimes I think this idea of getting narrow, we see it as the end all be all of what it is that we're creating. And I like this idea of using it as a way to focus in so that you can broaden back out. So maybe this isn't so much as me redacting something we say, but me growing a point of view that we've had into the next phase of it, where I want to give you guys permission to broaden back out after you get narrow.

Kathleen Shannon 53:31
And I will say, you know, narrowing in on branding and blending more of who you are into the work that you do in personal branding has been the way that I've gotten narrow. But I've been able to broaden back out by sharing what I've learned along the way at being boss. And we have covered multitude of topics here. That's a broadening back out. And that has also getting narrowed afforded me the ability to invest in rental properties. And that's another business again, that I don't necessarily want to be known for. But it's another like broad area, you know, right. And so I do think that getting narrow has afforded me the opportunity and privilege to broaden back out. I feel like I just said that eight times in a row. I'm sorry. Can you edit that accordingly? Cordy.

Emily Thompson 54:20
Right. So I think this is a really great example of how having these conversations has helped build future conversations, where you do have to have a point of view, we got really narrow on this idea that you have to be narrow. This is so meta, it hurts. But once you're there, you can explore other options. You can see how it grows, grows and changes. And that's for a point of view like this one, but it's also your brand. It's also your expertise. It's also how you show up for anyone and anything at any time. You can figure out what works for you and then you still have permission to explore if you want

Kathleen Shannon 54:59
and I think that's the A big point and probably one that you're getting to as well is that sometimes staking your claim and your expertise can keep you from trying new things, or experimenting or taking on passion projects, because it doesn't fit into this box of expertise that I've created for myself. And I think that's where it's dangerous to get too narrow is that if it keeps you from exploring what makes you curious,

Emily Thompson 55:26
this also reminds me of something we're going off agenda, guys. It's also reminds me of something that you and I have talked about a lot lately, and especially well, what we're finding is that especially in creative businesses, whenever you over systemize, and creates too many processes, it kills the magic totally kills it. And this is another scenario in which traditional business practices don't work for us. And so this just continues into this idea of creative businesses are a whole different kind of beast, and one that we're just now really even 200 episodes in, really just getting to the next phase of what that means diving even deeper into what it is to be a creative business owner, and how those businesses need to be structured and operated in ways that traditional businesses don't work. So yet again, we're at the forefront figuring it all out together as we go. And making it up to a lot I know

Kathleen Shannon 56:33
well, and coming back to like your creative business. And that might not run like someone else's creative business. And I have been trying all the formulas and you know, all of that stuff over the past four years to really see what works and what doesn't. And it always comes back to just going with my own gut and what I know to be true, even if it's not gonna get me that seven figure launch because I just can't do a funnel. This is what it comes down to. Okay, um, I want to know from any of your listeners, there is just a huge crack of thunder, lightning, thunder, feel that thunder, lightning and the Thunder, thunder.

Emily Thompson 57:19
Alright. Now, let's not hear from the thunder. Let's hear from one of you guys. What are some surprising lessons you've learned as you've built your creative career?

Kathleen Shannon 57:30
Hi, I'm Rebecca teeth. And my business is redstart creative. And one of the biggest lessons for me was realizing how I was positioning our products and our services would not allow me to hit the revenue goals that I wanted. All of a sudden, I was like, Oh, I have to sell so many of these things, to hit this big numbers. So I decided actually, last year at being Boss, I needed to do a huge pivot, and go, Oh, I actually have to sell bigger things. So I am probably like 12 months into like an 18 month growth period. But it's been huge. And I've just have to sit down and do the work every day. But it's so nice. I'm like, oh, more than halfway through now. I'm getting there. That's surprising lesson for me has been that 18 months is not that long of a time. That feels like I know what I mean. But truly, it goes by so fast. Thank you, Rebecca. And then we had Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 58:31
I'm Tori mystic. And my business is called were wag repeat. It's where wag repeat.com. And I have to say that the little tangent that you guys just went off on resonated with me so much, because I have really learned that. So my my business is a website for stylish dog moms, which I know you're giggling everyone. But I have to say it's come a long way. And I think having confidence in myself that this is something that I'm passionate about and that people respond positively to it's changed people's reactions. So like when I first started saying that two years ago, everyone laughed in my face. And now you're kind of like giggling behind me, which is a huge step up. Um, but I've noticed that by narrowing down to like specifically stylish dog moms, which is very specific niche,

Kathleen Shannon 59:27
and I am so proud of you for it. I love it.

Unknown Speaker 59:30
Thank you. But but that's that has by getting narrow. It has opened up so many things. So now you know I don't say I have a dog mom blog. I say I run a website for dog moms because it includes a podcast where I interview women entrepreneurs in the pet industry. And then I just started an online store where I support all dog mom makers for my products. So it actually by getting narrow has expanded so many opportunities to me. So you're tangent Although you thought it didn't make sense, it made total sense to me. Thank you.

Kathleen Shannon 1:00:04
I like you and my art tangents, things. And we usually don't get real time feedback. Usually, we're just like this, like,

Emily Thompson 1:00:12
Cory, listen to that. And it sounds stupid cut it out.

Kathleen Shannon 1:00:17
Thank you for sharing. Okay. And so finally, let's get into life. Because we know that as creatives, our working life blend, and our work is our life. And our life is supported by the work. So, Emily, you go.

Emily Thompson 1:00:37
The thing that I've learned first and foremost, is may sound simple, but it felt profound, is that the goal is to prefer your life to your work. Thanks, guys, it was profound. Um, right. So we're all here building these jobs that we love working at. And sometimes it's the detriment of the life that we have to live after hours. But I've found that or I've discovered, as I've gone along, that it's not about building an ideal business or job for yourself, it's about building the life that that business is going to afford. And that makes that life work, blend, dance, even more intricate, and more of a place that you need to focus. So this happens for me a lot. Whenever I'm sitting down working and going, I just want to go sit on my front porch, or I would rather be cooking dinner right now, or all of those sort of things where I find myself maybe that those aren't even really great examples. We think of a better example than that. A good example of this is whenever I would rather be traveling, because my life affords me or my work affords me those sorts of things, it's not about me getting up and heading to my inbox is not about me getting up and getting to that client or creating the thing that's going to get me paid. It's about the things that they afford. So whenever I'm excited about my life, when I'm really excited about what happens after I do the work that I enjoy doing, I know I've made it, I'm getting to travel cool places where I'm getting to stop working at four o'clock and have plenty of time to cook dinner for my family. And I'm able to enjoy all of that, because I've created a work that allows me to do whatever the hell I want to with my life.

Kathleen Shannon 1:02:39
I feel like what you're saying here also takes some of the pressure off of the metric goals that you

Emily Thompson 1:02:46
value, right? For sure. I've been releasing metrics from my life, guys.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:52
Whoa. That's why

Emily Thompson 1:02:53
that is I love the metrics. And I'll use them. And so here's the shift there. Here's the shift that has been made there. I don't use metrics for gratification anymore. I use them to make decisions as a very simple change. But one that I've found has helped me a lot. Because it doesn't matter how many people came to your website, it matters, how they got there, and what they did once they were there. Those are the things that allow you to make decisions. basing your self worth on how many people come to your website is pointless.

Kathleen Shannon 1:03:30
So I wrote down in my notes here, creative expression, dot, dot, dot and how that evolves. Do you remember what that mean? No. Does anyone know what that means? I don't know. But I was just at my grandma's funeral. She was 95 years old and brilliant. She everyone was just talking about how kind she was and how she's saying to us every morning that we spent the night and it gave me a lot of perspective. And I know that on this podcast, I'm like, we're all gonna die, just do the thing. But it gave me a new sense of perspective of that life is life is about making those memories and sometimes they're really small wins, including the song that you sing to your grandkids to wake them up. And so it's really made me re evaluate the kind of memories I'm creating for my own kiddo and my own family and really coming back to valuing ritual and traditions and the kinds that we get to make for ourselves. And so that's what I'm coming back to you with life. The holidays, as of recording this are about to come upon us. And really just thinking about I think that's a great opportunity to define in punctuate some of those moments that will be memorable and the kinds of things that I went to I went to leave

Emily Thompson 1:05:01
That's so good. That's my good face. And this brings me to something that I think I want to wrap up on. And we talked about priorities a lot. And again, we're usually talking about priorities in terms of like, make sure you empty your inbox or forget your inbox, there were other priorities you should be attending to. But what I've definitely found is that whenever you can prioritize within your life, as much as you do in your work, they will both flourish. So today, in our VIP mastermind, we had eight of you guys who wrote down a life in a work goal. And we had everyone go around and talk about their goal and talk about where they saw some struggles. And we workshopped it. Out of those eight people, only two of them mentioned their personal goal. Oh, right. And we didn't really talk about it much there. But I knew I was going to talk about right now. Because every one of them assumed that their professional goal was the most important goal that they had written down. Is that true? Not necessarily. I think that your life goals have to be just as important in some cases, more so than the professional goals that you're setting for yourself. And we made that space very, especially very consciously. Because we know that you guys probably aren't making much space for your life goals. You're making plenty of glorious space for your professional for your professional goals. And I'm glad that we've gotten you there, for sure. But we hope you guys are spending some time at some point just as much time on writing down what it is that you want out of your life, writing down all the steps, and then doing the work. Because those life goals are just as important, if not more so than the work goals that you're setting for yourself.

Kathleen Shannon 1:07:04
Would we get in trouble if we literally dropped the mic? your mic? They are you okay in trouble. All right. So we want you all to be thinking about those life goals and bringing a little bit more attention to them. Thank you so much for showing up to our live podcast recording, I want to make sure to give a big shout out to podia which you can try for free@podia.com slash bosses. We loved our mastermind with them yesterday. And then a big shout out to fresh books cloud accounting, who you know we adore and you can try them for free at freshbooks comm slash being boss and enter being boss in the How did you hear about us section. But really, truly shout out to freshbooks and podia for helping make this vacation what it was and thank you to you all for showing up. We appreciate you so much. Hey, bosses, I want to tell you about the CEO day kit. The CEO day kit is 12 months of focus planning for your business in just one day. So Emily and I have packaged up the exact tools that we've been consistently using for years that have helped us grow from baby bosses to the CEOs of our own businesses. gain clarity, find focus, get momentum, prioritize your time, make better decisions and become more self reliant with the CEO day kit. Go to courses that being boss dot club to learn more and see if it's a fit for you and your business.

Emily Thompson 1:08:48
Thank you for listening to being boss. If you're looking for more help and being boss of your work in life accom check out our website where you can find Episode shownotes. browse our archives and access free resources like worksheets, trainings, quizzes and more. It's all at WWW dot being boss dot club. Do the work be boss