Drawing from Your Content to Write a Book with Ezzie Spencer

Emily Thompson 0:00
The beanbags book is officially available for pre order, and you can buy it wherever books are sold. Let us know that you bought it and we'll send you some goodies. Just go to being boss club slash book for more details.

Kathleen Shannon 0:17
Hello, and welcome to being boss,

Emily Thompson 0:19
a podcast for creative entrepreneurs. I'm Emily Thompson.

Kathleen Shannon 0:23
And I'm Kathleen Shannon. Hi, I'm Kathy Spencer and I have been boss.

Emily Thompson 0:32
Today we're talking about turning your online content and expertise into a book with se Spencer. As always, you can find all the tools, books and links we reference on the show notes at WWW dot being boss dot club.

Kathleen Shannon 0:47
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Emily Thompson 1:39
As he I am so excited to have you back on the show. That is mutual. It's so good to be here.

Kathleen Shannon 1:48
And there's some extra energy around you being here today. Because your book as of recording this lunar abundance, adjust the launch. So that is huge. How are you feeling like the day after launch? I feel

Ezzie Spencer 2:02
amazing, actually. And I wasn't sure how I was going to feel so it's really nice to wake up and to feel okay, cool. Yeah, I did. It's out there in the world. And I now don't need to be a helicopter parent. I can just let it be whatever it is, it's going to be

Kathleen Shannon 2:20
and you're in Australia. So do you feel like the day that you launched? Do you wake up to just all this hubbub to like all these Instagram posts and people sharing your book and buying your book? And just all the excitement around it? How is that

Ezzie Spencer 2:33
you know what, it's really weird with the time difference because it is the morning wake up that I get like this deluge that comes in overnight, because that's the US work day. And so it is a very surreal experience. And I have to say, you know, I wake up and one of my little rules to myself is not to get onto the Instagram feed first thing, like, I got to do my meditation first. But you know, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, can't wait to like can roll over and pick up the phone. And just to play online. There's a huge amount of excitement with the book, which it's just so fun to play with that.

Emily Thompson 3:10
Right. I always I feel like if there's ever a day to break those kinds of rules, it's your own book launch day. So I think you're forgiven if you did break your rule.

Kathleen Shannon 3:23
So as he as as we are in the promotional phase of our book and making the podcasting rounds, one of the questions that we're getting a lot of that I just didn't really think a whole lot about was Did you always want to write a book and I guess some people have been dreaming about writing a book since they were five years old. Like, you know, some women dream about getting married, and they can visualize their dress and or you know, some women know that they wanted to be an entrepreneur since they were really little kids and had lemonade stands. And I guess some people just knew that they wanted to be authors. That hasn't been my experience. But I'm so curious to hear from you. Did you always know that you wanted to write a book? Yes. Ever since I was really, really little. Okay, so tell us what that's like? Well, you know, what is

Ezzie Spencer 4:08
interesting is that I started writing my first novel when I was five, meaning that I started dictating to my very patient mother, my first novel, plagiarism that I was reading at the time. That's right, we've still got a yellow pad of paper, which is all tattered and falling apart now. But I really thought that I would actually write a novel I thought that was going to be my first book. So in a way I feel there's this sense of I mean, there is a sense of jubilation having a book out there because it has been a lifelong dream. But at the same time, it hasn't taken the form, which I thought that it would, because it's you know, it's a nonfiction personal development book that I ended up writing, at least first, so the novel might still be in there somewhere. Yeah, so

Kathleen Shannon 4:59
that's why He's gonna ask next is, you know, did you always know it might be about lunar abundance? But I mean, obviously, how would you know whenever you're five that your book would be about lunar abundance.

Ezzie Spencer 5:10
I definitely didn't think that I would be writing a book about the moon cycle that came out of left field for me. That was that was pretty late in the game, I've got to tell you, I was probably more I was surprised about the whole lunar, the whole lunar well, that has transpired in my life as as anybody else, it wasn't something that I could have thought out for sure. It's something that just had to emerge naturally. And that's been the whole process of lunar abundance, right from the get go. It's been, it's really been something that's come from my own, you know, feeling and intuition, and I followed the crumbs the whole way.

Emily Thompson 5:51
Good. Well, and I just want to point out here too, that we did do a full episode with you at this point, I think like two years ago, a year and a half ago, or so, I'm looking it up Episode Number 74, is where we talked with you about lunar abundance, and what that all meant. But I'm excited to talk more about this book process because you did publish your book in Australia, I guess about a year ago now. And then that now it's out here in the US, which is just a whole other like crazy, big market for you. And lunar abundance has taken several different formats, you know, for you both from a personal practice into, you know, a training program, and then a book. So I'm excited to talk to you more about the book. But if you do want to hear more about lunar abundance, specifically, one, check out the book, or two, also, you can check out the podcast.

Kathleen Shannon 6:47
But I mean, even from the episode to reading the book, I feel like the book is just so robust, like I loved getting to hear your story firsthand whenever we got to interview you last time, and kind of just scratched the surface of what it means to be in touch with the moon and, and really pay attention to our own cycles of creativity. But the book is a whole other level. And it really does feel like this little guide that I can pull open and make sense of and it's just so comprehensive. It's so explanatory, it's so it's robust, but also really easy.

Ezzie Spencer 7:24
Thank you, it's just such a delight to hear you talk that way, because that was exactly my intention, as I was writing the book that it would be both inspiring, and it is beautiful. We can talk about, you know, how it would have actually visually looks like but I wanted it to be practical, I didn't want it to be just another sort of interesting, esoteric idea, I wanted it to be something that people could pick up have on their bedside table, but you know, pick up and be able to work with the moon cycle in a very practical way to affect real change in their lives, you know, create more creativity, you know, and create a better life for themselves, you know, be more intuitive work out what it is that they really wanted to have in their lives, but be able then, to know what to do specifically with the moon cycle in order

Kathleen Shannon 8:12
to make that real. I had the most serendipitous moment to that I have to share. So I shared this with you as he but whenever I was sharing this on Instagram, I was wanting to show my followers who were following me on Instagram, the book and what it looked like. And I wanted to show how the moon phases were separated out. And I knew that the moon was a waning gibbous whenever I was sharing, and I turned right to it. And this was probably like, I don't know, three quarters of the way through the book turned right to the page. And just little nods like that make me feel like okay, there's some magic in here.

Ezzie Spencer 8:49
Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's definitely magic in this book. Right from right from the get go. Right from the idea, but then also the writing of it. And then the publishing of it. And the way it's taking its wings out into the world. I mean, or if the magic so I'm so excited to hear that story.

Kathleen Shannon 9:08
Okay, before we really dive in, I'm curious to hear is there anything that you wish you would have known before you wrote a book like now that it's out in the world? If you could go back? Is there anything that you would change or add in or know about your process that you would change? And the answer doesn't have to be? Yes, but I'm just so curious. I think it's probably because of the phase that we're at right now with our own book is like, oh, what do I wish I would have known?

Ezzie Spencer 9:37
Oh, it's such an interesting question. I feel like there's so many aspects of the book process which you could break that down into, and I feel like the writing process is the first piece and I know that you lovely ladies are through that writing stage of the process. But I feel like I In writing the book, I feel like I did sort of bring into it the sense that it did need to be, you know, hard, it needed to be a struggle. And I, I actually detached quite a lot from that. And I was very intentional with the writing of the book and writing the book ended up being a really joyful, you know, easeful process. So I feel like that's the first piece is that you can actually have an enjoyable process with a creative project, yes, it will still be work. But it can also still be fun. But then I think that the next piece of it, which is the like the production piece, if you will, to the creativity piece, the production piece was actually a lot more work than I expected and brought more changes into my life. And I feel like, I could have been a little more prepared for that side of things. But I feel like you to just have nailed it in terms of, you know, where you're up to. I know, I've been speaking with you and Emily behind the scenes as well. And I feel like having a good sense of the time and energy involved in the getting a book out into the world is really important. And I feel like, because I have now, I wrote the book A while ago now. And with the US release, I was able to take the lessons from the Australian release, which is where I felt a little unprepared. And I've been able to put them into play with the US release. And I've had more of a lead time. And I've been able to do it in a way which feels less squeezy. So a lot of people, I think, you know, create their big piece of work and then think, Oh, great, you know, I'm, that's it, I'm done now. But actually, that's the point at which the work often begins that I wish I'd done that.

Emily Thompson 11:51
Yeah, and I'll even point out to one of the things that I learned from bringing you from being you know, very privileged to your, your process throughout, you know, launching in Australia, and then bringing it to the US. And then some other things we've heard from some other authors and things that we were read, is, I feel like so many people, whenever they go into writing a book, really only think about, you know, life up until book launch day, and they don't really put a whole lot of thought or energy into what happens next, what do you want readers to do next? What will it mean for your business? What are your what goals do you have for this book, beyond just getting the book out into the world and I know that for me, watching, you go through that process, and watching you come out on the other side of it, and you know, you having the opportunities that you've had, and all of those things, it made me bring more intention to what happens after the book is out the night ever even, like considered before, because I was like everyone else, and really just thinking about what happens up until that day. But because of that, we've been able to put so much more time and energy and effort into what happens after the book launches. So I do appreciate being able to have have some insight into your process, in terms of being able to really think about also what our book means for us beyond just the actual physical book being available for people on that day. Because the book

Ezzie Spencer 13:21
is really a gateway to so many other things. And those other things, maybe things that you already have in mind. And then some of those other things may be big, bountiful opportunities, which will only come about because of the book, but which were actually outside your frame of reference, whilst you are writing the book.

Kathleen Shannon 13:47
Yeah, I'm so curious to hear from you like what did you want people to do after they purchase your book, aside from you know, live with the cycles of the moon? What did you want them to do next? And what were you kind of planning on? Like, was it to have a group coaching program or to, you know, have like a reader's guide that people might, you know, buy into, or have any other unexpected opportunities come out of this that you would have never even imagined?

Ezzie Spencer 14:13
Yes, it's such a good question. I'll speak to this mostly about the Australian release, because the US release is so fresh. But the Australian release was a game changer for me, in many respects in terms of opening up those doors. But it also was a surprise to me that what I had envisioned, envisaged, the book would end up opening the door to actually change. So by that what I mean is that I had an existing online program, which I had been teaching for a number of years, and was actually one of my main revenue streams. And so I was teaching the lunar abundance practices in this audio visual setting. It was a close community. I had an online Facebook group and online community and When I was writing the book, one of the things that I thought would happen was that the book would be a gateway to that program so that people would buy the book, and then people would end up buying the program. And yes, that ended up happening last year, people, a lot of people bought the book in Australia, and then they went on and bought the program. But what I didn't expect would happen was that after running that program for three or four years, I started to feel like that program wasn't something that I wanted to keep running. So that was actually very scary to me. Because I thought, oh, gosh, I can write this book Not Just to sell people into the program. That was not the intention behind the book. But I'd hoped that would be one of the outcomes for my business. And then I started to feel this sense of Oh, but hang on a sec. That's now feel the program now feels like it's past its use by date. So I felt this. Oh, yeah.

Kathleen Shannon 15:56
Can't get okay. I just have so many thoughts here. I am glad that you mentioned this, though. Because I've thought about the being boss book. And I can almost see why a lot of bands break up after they release their album, you know, it's almost like not because there were fights or anything bad. But there's a certain amount of closure that happens. And I feel like if being boss, you guys being bosses and going anywhere,

Emily Thompson 16:18
Lena and I are not in

Kathleen Shannon 16:20
a fight, we're not shutting it down. But I do feel like it's kind of, it's the equivalent of I could die today happy, you know, like, there is a certain amount of closure where like, okay, I've said what I've needed to say. And I've really concisely put it in a book where I can just say here, here you go. So my other question for you along these lines is do you feel like you put a lot of the content from your program into the book itself? And that kind of not? I don't know what word I'm looking at. lack of better words, like kind of watered it down, like not watered down the program. But did it feel redundant at all? Because I've also thought about this too, like, Okay, can I turn what we've created in the book, or have I just written myself out of a job and like, people can buy my best stuff for $24, whereas they were paying me 1000s before, like, that's probably my, my like inner critic fear.

Ezzie Spencer 17:12
Well, the program was different in that it had a lot of audio visual content, firstly, and secondly, it had an online community component. So there were those two different features to the program, where I feel that it provided a lot of value. And that was definitely the feedback that I got from the people who've taken the program, even after you know, they've read the book, they took the program, the program was more advanced, if you will. So I feel like it, it could have been an avenue for me to continue down and continue to deliver value for people. But I feel like the the big shift for me was that I wanted to have more direct contact with people. And I feel like there is I'm going through a process now of rethinking the way that I'm going to deliver the material, the lunar abundance material, a more advanced offering, because I think that a book is always going to be sort of the self study option, if you will. And there's always going to be people who want more and want to have more contact and more assistance, I think, to work through the material. And I get a lot of requests from people about what does it look like, like after the book. So there's still definitely a desire for that. But I think for me, it was a personal shift, where I just didn't feel as invigorated by the online, community space any more. I feel like four years ago, teaching in a Facebook group was a lot more. It was more revolutionary than it certainly is in 2018. But it was also much more invigorating. For me, I loved showing up and teaching and holding space and connecting with people in the Facebook group setting four years ago when I started the online program. And that's really shifted. For me now I'm much more excited about real life, I'm much more excited about having that more high touch direct contact with people, which can be via, you know, Skype, or zoom or whatever. But it can be a more just a more intensive way of working with people at a more premium level. So that's what really shifted for me after the book coming out. And I just didn't expect that it would. That was a big surprise for me. And then I feel like the so I think part of that was an internal shift with me. And I think part of that was also a response to just the inevitable constant changing landscape of the online world. Which is just you know, it's different in 2018 than it was in 2016 when I was actually putting pen to paper with the book. And so part of what I feel makes for a successful online on pinner is that we're very responsive to those changes that were showing up. And we're providing a service or a product or an offering that is going to be of value to our clients in the here and the now and being able to shape shift and move as quickly as we need to in order to not just keep pace with all of the changes, but to be a skip ahead. And I feel like that's what lunar abundance definitely was when it started in the online program setting and, and then it just wasn't, it just wasn't, it just wasn't exciting to me, primarily, but then the other opportunities that have started to open up again, a more of the higher end, behind the scenes in real life type opportunities, which I never would have imagined when I started writing the book, I just my brain wouldn't have been able to stretch to, to the types of things that are now coming across my path, which is really exciting. Like, what

Kathleen Shannon 21:00
can you share? Can you tell us some of those things,

Ezzie Spencer 21:03
I suppose it's really two things and all that I suppose there's three things. One is that I found that I love writing books. So I want to write another book. And so there's conversations going on about that. Secondly, I want to be on stage more in connecting with people in more of a speaking capacity. So I've been doing that speaking to bigger and bigger groups, and, and working towards building out that part of my business as well. And then thirdly, it's more around doing some of that higher end consulting. So the more premium work sometimes that's with organizations, and some of it is with, you know, individuals at the top of their game. So that is really how my business is looking at the moment. And yes, I also feel like there will be some future online component, but I'm not pushing myself to try to get that structure locked at this point, I feel a sense of trust that that's going to unfill in the right time, in the right way.

Emily Thompson 22:07
I'm absolutely fascinated by this by this idea of almost even your relationship with the content that not only are you sharing, but like you created, how your relationship with this content has changed over the years and how that has affected how it is that you want to deliver. And I can absolutely see how it is that writing a book. Because that's such a deep dive and intentional exploration of this content, how writing a book can cause the biggest shift in your relationship with a content. I'm fascinated by that, because I also feel it. Now that you've like put it into words for me. I love it.

Kathleen Shannon 22:52
I love it to Emily, like one of the things I think about is I used to think, Okay, I need to know everything there is to know before I write a book about the content that will go in my book. And now you know, after writing one, I'm starting to feel like the second book could actually be more of an exploration. Like, oh, I can become more of an expert or use the opportunity of writing a book to learn more about a certain subject or to learn more about, you know, my relationship with that content itself.

Ezzie Spencer 23:22
I love that. And I feel like I, I was writing about a personal practice of personal practice, which I've been doing for about a decade. So I thought I had a pretty good handle on what lunar abundance was, as I was writing the book. But what I found was that it changed me in ways exactly as you've just spoken to. It changed me in ways that I didn't expect. It was like it worked through me on a whole different level. And it invited me to go deeper and deeper into the subject matter to really learn it to embody it so that I could stand up in complete integrity, I believe and speak about this to much, much bigger audiences. I need a more permanent way as well. I feel like there's something quite ephemeral about online content. One is that, you know, when I decided to stop providing my course or offering my course in the way which I had been, I could just pull it. And obviously I'm continuing to deliver it to those who had purchased the course already behind the scenes, but it's no longer available for sale. And that was just a decision that I made. And it wasn't an easy decision that I made, I should say like I cried a lot when I made that decision.

Emily Thompson 24:38
I can't imagine I can totally imagine.

Kathleen Shannon 24:42
We were just talking to another entrepreneur yesterday about, you know, being afraid of your own intuition and kind of tying that into the fear of success. And sometimes that means having to go down hard paths like listening to your heart and choosing to pull the thing that's Making you the most money down.

Ezzie Spencer 25:02
Yes. And that is so scary when you have that strong intuitive hit to remove a tried and tested revenue stream.

Kathleen Shannon 25:14
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Ezzie Spencer 26:27
It's a really good question, because a lot of the content that already existed with Luna abundance was audio visual. And it was in my head and would come out when I gave up live workshops. And I worked with clients. And I had an extremely active Facebook group for a few years as well. So that was really where a lot of the written content was because this is sort of before the years where you did Facebook Lives. And you know, I'd be actually typing out lots of A's to Q's in in the Facebook group there for a number of years.

Kathleen Shannon 26:59
Right? And, you know, talking about the ephemera of that. It's like, how do you capture it, and if it if Facebook shut down, or if your blog, if you forgot to pay your domain fees, and it was just gone, you know, like, I think that there is some value to taking some of the content that you've had and putting it to words. And the same with our podcast, it was like, Okay, what have we been saying this whole time? And how can we bring that to a book and the permanence of the book feels really good. So okay, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you there. But tell me more about that about, you had it in your head, you had it coming out of your mouth, in your content and in your courses.

Ezzie Spencer 27:35
Yeah, I love what you've just said, because I feel like that bottling process was such an exquisite process. Because I was living and breathing it, I hadn't realized how little it was captured in one place. It wasn't like I could point someone to one particular spot other than say, buy my program, which was, you know, the, that's where the most amount of modeling had happened to date. But it was such a fun process to sit down and to say to myself, right, I have this chance to pull together all of the salient pieces of what it is that I've been teaching. And so I think there's like two elements of the writing process, which are really key, and one of them is the practical piece. And the second is more of the mindset, intentional piece. So I'll talk about both of them, because I think they were both relevant for the way that I created the book. So firstly, I feel like on that practical level, anyone who's been in a situation where you have been sharing your knowledge, like we'd be building up a body of work, whether that be in one on one client sessions, whether that be in workshops, whether it be on a blog, online program, or whatever, you're in such a good place to write a book, because you already have a good sense of what a your messages but also be the aspects of your message that people are resonating with, yes, but also the aspects of your message that people find difficult to integrate in their lives. And that can actually be a very juicy, rich part to unpack. And so it was very helpful to me because I had been teaching this and I'd had hundreds of women had gone through, I'd worked directly with hundreds of women through the process already. So I had a good sense of what it was that people found most interesting about what it was that I was speaking about. And specifically for me, that was, yes, setting intentions at the New Moon, but also the yin and the yang elements of working with the moon. So how to get out of the push and the hustle and to be really able to rest into the feminine magnetism drawing opportunities towards you. So I knew that people found that interesting, but I also knew that people found that very difficult to integrate in their life. And so it was really helpful for me to know the kind of questions that I had the kind of challenges that people had after working with the material for months. And then I could bake all of that and like I could bake in I could bake in my answers to questions. That I could predict that readers were going to have. And again, I feel like this is something which is going to be so valuable to anyone, any online course creator or anyone you know, delivering a service, it's like you want to write a book that's going to be valuable, right, you don't want to write a book, which is just for you, or just coming out of your head, you want to be able to support your readers in a very specific and practical way, at least, you know, if you're writing nonfiction, so that was the first step. The second piece, which was really helpful from that practical level was that I had an audience who I could directly ask, and I think that when we are working in the online space, we are very ofay, with this idea of this survey. And I, you know, it also, when we send out the survey, what do people want to hear, we also tend to think that we know what people are going to reply a lot of the time, and yes, it's very validating where people write back. And they're like, Yes, I want to learn how to, you know, set intentions and record the eight phases of the moon, which is what I was going to write the book about. So that was great. But people also came back with a whole lot of other questions, which I hadn't anticipated, you know, and I had hundreds of people reply to the survey and to ask questions like, Well, why does the moon have the effect that it does, you know, what sort of the history of the of the moon cycle and, you know, all these other kinds of things, so I was able to bake that in as well, you know, I put in a couple of chapters in the book, before I got into the actual structure of the book, which I pulled from the course structure, you know, with the, with the modules, the eight phases of the moon were eight modules in the online course. And so those eight chapters in the book, one chapter for each one of the eight moon phases as you work throughout the whole cycle. But in addition to that, I had a couple of preliminary chapters, which really spoke to a lot of the questions, which I got, as I sent out that initial survey. And I feel like what's so interesting is that, you know, I had people say, you know, agents and editors, I didn't know that those first couple of chapters, you know, should they really be in there? Do they really fit? And I was able to say, Well, you know, what, they really speak to a lot of the interest that is out there about the moon cycle. And so when the audio version of the book came out, one of the things that I got in interviews and in feedback was, gosh, those first couple of chapters are super useful. And, you know, they're not written like a q&a. It's written as a narrative, but it really responded to what people wanted to know. So that was part of the process, like the creative process.

Kathleen Shannon 32:22
And this is why it's so good to know your reader and to little, literally be friends with your readers or to be hired by your readers. Because I think that, you know, if you haven't written a book, you imagine going into it. And it's almost like the editor and the publisher, or your mom and dad, and you just trust that they know best like that. They know everything, and then you get into it. And you see, oh, they're human beings coming at this from a very specific perspective and experience. I mean, yes, they have a grasp professionally, of kind of books and what's going on there. But if I can tell them, our audience specifically is looking for this content. And these are the questions that they have. And this is what I'm answering, so that I can answer the questions for everybody. So that anybody who picks up this book feels like, Oh, she answered that question before I even knew I had it, then you have that instant trust. And that book that's being handed down from like, friend to friend with the tabbed pages, and it's just being read over and over and over again, because people trust you, and you're answering their questions.

Ezzie Spencer 33:30
100%. And when people read your book and say, Eddie, how did you get inside my head, you just know that you have created something, which is really valuable, and which will stand the test of time. And that's such a, that's such a delight to be able to create something, which doesn't just look pretty, but which is also useful, does get handed around. I mean, that's just I feel the I mean, that's something which I think every author aspires to. And there are very practical ways to be able to bet embed that in your own creative process, and so that you're able to get to that result, rather than than just hoping for the best. Right?

Emily Thompson 34:24
I just had the most amazing thought. And I have to

Kathleen Shannon 34:29
quickly tell us, Emily,

Emily Thompson 34:31
think about like, think about whatever the internet came around. Everyone thought it would kill books, basically. Right? But how about the fact that the internet is actually making books better, like because we have the ability to store all of this content all these various places and really workshop it with people and have it recorded and more or less saved and give us access to like, entire communities like in a flash To test content and get feedback, and actually helps make our books better, that kind of just blew my mind.

Kathleen Shannon 35:09
This is such a good point, Emily, because I don't think we would have ever written a book if we hadn't been blogging and podcasting first.

Emily Thompson 35:15
And so much of our content was sourced from conversations that we've had via the internet, or even, you know, in our Facebook groups, or whatever it may be like being able to long term source content, or even in the moments of writing going, guys, what do you need help with? Like,

Unknown Speaker 35:32
what what should

Emily Thompson 35:33
we be including in this book, just the fact that we were able to use a tool that was supposedly going to kill books, as a way to make a book that was that much more effective? is amazing.

Kathleen Shannon 35:47
Okay, so as he keep going, are you feel free to respond to that as well, but I didn't mean to derail you. Oh, yeah, I

Ezzie Spencer 35:54
just think it's a great point, because the volume of feedback that you can get on the internet means that you're able to pick up those themes so quickly, and they become so apparent. And you can speak with authority, because you know, your people. And I think one of the things which is just so beautiful with a book is that it's such a great companion to anything that you're doing online, because there is so much noise online now. And if you are able to have that physical companion, which sits on the bedside table of your ideal reader, and then they can come and dance and play with you, on your blog, on your podcast on your Instagram, which is you know, my current place playground of choice. It allows the book to be that living, breathing element of your work, but then also your relationship with your readers. And I feel like it's so exciting what the internet is doing for, you know, particularly print books as well, you know, and we're seeing that the sales of print books are going up, you know, going north, whereas ebooks are going south, you know, at a time where I feel like we are starting to crave, again, that ability to have something tangible to touch it with our hands, you know, to be back in the real world as well, or at least have that healthy balance and relationship between the online and the and the offline world that for sure. Books. I think the internet is doing amazing thing. So books. I love that point. Okay, so

Kathleen Shannon 37:34
you were telling us a couple of practical things. Was there another? Oh, the like a mindset thing.

Ezzie Spencer 37:42
Yeah, there's the mindset thing. And I feel like the intentional aspect behind writing this book was such a key part of the creative process that it's worth speaking to, I think that the marriage of the practical action, the Yang, if you will, with the yen, the feeling and the intention is key. I feel like it is in writing the book about the lunar abundance practice, I applied the lunar abundance practice to writing the book and a key part of the lunar abundance practice is setting intentions. But not just setting intentions, which are like sort of strategic goals, not like I want to sell X number of books or whatever, but to really feel those intentions on that somatic body based level. So to feel how it is that I wanted to feel as I was writing the book, and I wanted to feel a sense of joy and ease and flow, creativity and abundance as I was writing the book. And so I was very clear, I tapped into that intention on that physical level, like I really tuned in, well, what does that feel like in my body? How did that feel in my chest? How did that feel in my womb, you know, how was I getting grounded on the actual physical ground as I was writing the book, and as you know, as you're writing a book, it can be very, very heady, you can get very abstracted out into all of the ideas. So you know, coming back into the body, feeling that sense of embodiment, and flow was really important to me, and to have fun with it. I feel like we forget that our creative projects can actually be really fun. So that was a big piece,

Kathleen Shannon 39:16
I was gonna say, I think that's something that we all have in common that we've been all told otherwise, is that you have to slog through a book, and it's just the hardest thing you'll ever do. And it's miserable, and you'll become an alcoholic through the process. And we had a really, really good time and going back to that internet piece and using the content that you already have to write your book. I think that this is and using your community and asking them what it is that they want to hear. I think it takes out some of the self doubt or some of the guesswork around. Is this even good because we have such an opportunity. I mean, obviously Emily and I were collaborating along the way. But you have such an opportunity to ping what you're writing off of other people as you Go to really see if you're hitting your mark. And so I'm curious to hear from you. Did you have someone that you collaborated with along the way? Or did you share it with your partner or with your editor? Or even with your community a little bit? Or do you feel like it was all of that experience and knowledge going into, you know, creating the content for the coursework, and speaking to this, and experiencing your own practice for so long that gave you that confidence and ease going into writing it?

Ezzie Spencer 40:28
It's such a good question. And as you're speaking about how much fun you had collaborating with Emily about writing the book, there's a little piece of me that was like, Oh,

Kathleen Shannon 40:38
I don't want to make anyone feel bad if they don't have a writing bestie

Ezzie Spencer 40:43
I wouldn't write my next book like that. Um, I did feel that very organic flow between me and my community of clients, and friends. And so many of the people that I have shared this practice with have become, you know, really cherished friends. And I did have a dear friend of mine, Rachel McDonald, read the chapters as I was sending them through. And because she was deeply involved in the practice, she was able to speak to them, it was not as an editor, it was just as a friend. And there was lots of cheerleading along the way. So that was super nice. I always encourage people, when they are writing to have some kind of like beta radar or, or with someone, um, I didn't actually have a publisher and editor as I was writing the book, that actually comes back to the intentional piece as well. So I set intentions around how I wanted to feel as I was writing the book, I also set intentions around how I wanted my reader to feel as they were reading the book, and what I wanted my reader to do. And I also set an intention around publication, which is that I wanted my book to land in the maximum number of hands of the maximum number of readers who would benefit from it. And so I really held that intention. And I connected in with the elevated emotions around that intention that began like joy and ease and abundance and flow and gratitude. And then I ended up hiring an editor to take a look, once the book was complete, which was, which was great. And the day that I finished writing the book, and I sent it off to the editor in an email, the next day, I woke up, and I said to myself, I feel like I should be thinking about publication now that the book has been, you know, gone off. And now the book is complete. And I always had at the back of my mind that I could always Self Publish. And I think that's a great option for authors in the modern day, because it's so easy to self publish on Amazon. But literally that next day, I woke up and had an email in my email inbox from an Australian publisher who'd seen that I had posted on my Instagram that I had been writing a book, and she had said, Hey, do you want the book to be published? You know, let's get on the phone and, and have a chat.

Emily Thompson 43:00
All right, excuse me, while I pause this here and let you in on the exciting news. The being boss book is about to hit the shelves of a bookstore near you, Kathleen, and I have taken years of conversations between ourselves and those we've had with experts and industry leaders here on the being boss podcast, and have distilled them down into what we found, makes you boss into a book that you can read, hold in your hands and share with a friend.

Kathleen Shannon 43:25
And we'd be lying if we didn't admit that we have a big dream with this book, we wanted to be a best seller. We want every creative in the world to cultivate the confidence it takes to take control of their work, and make money doing what they love. So they can live life on their own terms. That's what our book is here to do. And we need your help to make it happen.

Emily Thompson 43:45
If you want to dive into the core of what it means to be boss and support us while you do it, it's time for you to preorder the book. And once you do that, let us know you bought it and we'll send you some goodies. Just go to being boss club slash book for links to purchase. And for more information on how to claim your swag that's being boss club slash book. Now, let's get back at it.

Kathleen Shannon 44:14
Okay, I want to talk about the power of setting intentions and really feeling them because I feel like this is everyone asks us How did you get a book deal? How did you get an agent because usually you have to put together a proposal to even pitch to your agent. And I think that that you've had this experience where it's been really easy and you've attracted the right people who get your vision. So running press is we share that publisher, which is kind of wild too, because I feel like all of our friends now are publishing with running press, which is amazing, but I think it speaks to, you know, high vibes attracting like minds. And I think that that's happened with all of us that we've all been running in those same circles and running press gets it and I think that there is something to be said for it. You know, this law of attraction and vibing, at that level where you are feeling your intention kind of makes things a little bit easier. And you find that the right people find you who get your intention and who get what you're all about. So, do you want to? Do you believe in that? Like, do you want to speak to that at all, like, as far as just even attracting the right pieces of the pie to come along? whenever it comes to getting this book out into the world,

Ezzie Spencer 45:26
I mean, my whole life is run like this. And I feel like I mean, I have to believe it, because this is how my business has grown. It's how every opportunity has come to me, which is that I set an intention, and I feel in my body, what it what it is that I want to bring into my life, what it is that I want to attract in my life. And I tap into those elevated emotions of gratitude and joy and how I feel as if I've already received it. And so when I set intentions, again, I'm not being really super specific. Like it wasn't like I wrote down, you know, I want you know, this publisher, and I want to get a book deal with this amount of money. I didn't actually get that specific, I think that you can, it's just that that's not the way that I personally set intentions.

Kathleen Shannon 46:18
Well, it seems like the difference between goal setting and intentions and I think that those are kind of separate things like intentions aren't quite as measurable, right? I mean, at least that's the way that we do it over here is we're like, what's the feeling? And then sure, yeah, we'll set goals later, like once they start unfolding, and we want to hit some benchmarks, but sorry, keep going.

Ezzie Spencer 46:38
Yeah, exactly. So I think intentions and goals are really helpful, they can work together. Exactly right. And I feel like for me, though, the intentions have always been the most powerful piece. And so to tap into that intention of this book landing in the maximum number of hands, the maximum number of readers who would benefit from it, I was really focused on the service pace. And I feel like that combined with the fact that I was creating a good product, which delivered values, I was doing the work as well, it wasn't like I was just sitting there with just in meditation, you know, up in the cave, or, you know, out on the cliff, you know, I was doing the work as well. And I feel like that's really important. But it's it was the fact that I was able to drop out of the hat and just sit and be with that intention about how I wanted this book to make a positive impact in the world, then, and how I wanted to feel, you know, and I wanted it to be abundant. I wanted to feel abundant, I wanted it to be financially abundant to like, there was nothing dirty about, you know, the the money piece that was a big part of it, because I spent a lot of time and energy writing the book, I wanted it to pay off financially as well. And, and it has. So I did, I was just so clear with that with that intention. And then it was actually an Australian publisher who contacted me. And so I just sold the Australian and New Zealand rights at first. And then I said to myself, Well, firstly, I thought, Oh, I can still Self Publish internationally. And I thought, Oh, wait, Australian publisher wants this, I bet then there could be an international publisher or a US publisher who would also want this. So then I set that intention for it to go, you know, even bigger, if that should be, you know, in integrity with the book and what it wanted. Because I am a big believer with any creative project, including a book that it has its own essence. And that, you know, it's it's my job, and it's our job as a creator to show up and be the vessel and be the conduit for that and allow it to be birthed through me. And so I set that intention about an international publisher. And then that happened, I ended up attracting a brilliant agent in New York, who I absolutely love and adore and totally gets my vision as he said, that was so important to me that she really understood what it was that I was creating with the book. And then she, she she got me the publishing deal with running press. And I've just been so delighted working with them. My editor at running press has been amazing data during the new moon intention setting ceremonies as soon as she got the manuscript, and I'm just over the moon with how it's all transpired.

Emily Thompson 49:17
I'm so glad to hear all of that. I mean, and again, being able to follow you through the journey. I've seen how now like how easy you've made it because they certainly don't want to like discredit all of the hard work that you've done. You're just always so aligned with what it is that you want that you have no problem, like, disregarding opportunities that aren't aligned and really just moving ahead with what is it's, it's one of those it's one of the things that I most admire about you. And that I think is a really great characteristic of someone who is being boss, if I may, in that you know what you want and you're just going to travel right towards it and you'll be attracting things Along the way, but you're also making the motions forward. It's, it's such a good, such a good characteristic and one that, you know, I'm sure the lunar abundance practice has lended to, in so many ways.

Ezzie Spencer 50:14
Yeah, I think that clarity about what you want is key, and most importantly, how you want to feel. I think just being in line with your intuition, and what feels so good in your body is, is so important. And it's not always easy, as you say. So for instance, when I felt that it was time to close down my online program, it's like my brain was saying, this does not make any sense, like you're making money from this. And I just kept on getting that intuitive hit that it was time to time to close it down. And as you say, you know, I was actually I spoke to other agents, before I signed up with the, with the agent that I signed up to, and it's about cultivating that healthy discernment around who is going to truly get your vision and be able to work beside you to bring it into, into form into reality. And in a way that's going to feel like really expensive and really juicy.

Kathleen Shannon 51:17
And I find that whenever you have that clarity around your intention and what it feels like in your body, the easier it is to feel if there's dissonance between an opportunity that's being presented to you and whether or not you should take it so you can feel does this harmonize with my intention? Does it line up with it? Or is it not quite right? And it's so much easier to tell whenever you just take the time to go within and feel what that feels like?

Ezzie Spencer 51:47
Yes. And with practice, that becomes easier and easier over time to just like, click in

Kathleen Shannon 51:55
I want to talk just a little little bit more about creative process and content. And because I think a lot of us grew up in a world of blogging, and I feel like I'm hesitant to blog anymore because like you I want to write more books. And I don't want to burn my content. In fact, I remember working with Rene brown years ago, and she said she doesn't blog a whole lot because she doesn't want to burn her content. And at the time, I thought that's wild, why wouldn't you just like freely share your gifts of knowledge when they come? And obviously, she's sharing more than enough with her talks and her Instagram and everything else. But now I see the need to kind of reserve some things that you're thinking about to let them cultivate behind the scenes, and maybe this is my own. I'm growing up a little bit out of oversharing every thought that crosses my mind onto my blog, and, and really discerning what's worth saying. And I think especially as the internet becomes more noisy, am I just contributing to the noise by sharing how I'm decorating my office today? Or is this actually meaningful? Anyway, all of that to say, if someone is blogging, and maybe they haven't created a course, because I think a course helps you structure, how you're going to write a book even or how you might direct someone through that because you've thought about it in the context of a course. But how might you recommend to someone how to organize their content if they've been blogging and kind of like all willy nilly and not willy nilly? I'm not saying that everyone blogging is willy nilly. I was, but how, what are the best ways to like really organize your content and discern Okay, what goes into a book and what's left behind? And what does that look like? Do you have any advice there?

Emily Thompson 53:41
Hmm. Um, I feel

Ezzie Spencer 53:46
it's so many questions within that I want to go in so many different directions. So firstly, I

Kathleen Shannon 53:51
know I want to tell Cory to edit down my question. That was ridiculous. I'm sorry, that was like the most rambley windy question ever. So take that in whatever direction you know, I feel excited about that question.

Ezzie Spencer 54:09
Um, so firstly, I don't blog anymore. And that's, that wasn't a decision that I made. It was just I didn't feel it through or energized by blogging anymore. But I loved blogging to begin with. So I blogged a lot. 2013 2014 even in 2015, actually, I blogged a lot for those three years. And it was so useful for me to start to crystallize my ideas and to get a sense of what it was that people were really responding to, and what people were interested in. And I think maybe Instagram to a lesser degree still plays that role. I feel like so many people have transitioned off the blog now into podcasts and social media. And I think that they any kind of online writing will give you the instant feedback, which used to take, you know, a long time of like market research, you know, or traveling around the country and doing live events to be able to bring together. So I feel like if you are just starting out, then putting your work out where in whichever channel feels really good and juicy and enlivening for you is going to be the best first step to start to get a sense of what you like talking about and what people like to hear from you. And then to start to package that up into some kind of offering, which doesn't need to be a big online course it can be, you know, a smaller digital product to begin with, because then you'll get a sense of what people will pay for as well. And there's a difference between what people will read online and what they will pay for and to be getting people to bring out their credit card, even for a $20 ebook, you need to be delivering a solution to a problem that people have, or you need to be painting a picture speaking to a desire that people have, and to be able to show them how you can carry them along on that journey. So I feel like going through that process, which I went through, before writing the book is so valuable in terms of working out what it is, what is it that will go into the book in the first instance, in terms of of general message, because people will need to pay for a book, whether it be ebook or print or whatever, if you want to get a traditional publishing deal, you need to be selling your book to the publisher, so to get really comfortable with the idea of sales is is going to be a key part of that and to get comfortable with the idea of working out that desk with people that interested in something doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to buy it, you're going to have to go that further step. And that excellent training, I think for for writing a book. And I guess the next piece in terms of structuring your material, I did this in a pretty iterative way. So my first online program, which I put out, I put out in 2013. And it had

five modules. And I spoke to five main topics, which I was really interested about, and which I was teaching about at the time. And the moon cycles was one of those five topics. And so what was really interesting to me was that I did make sales of that first online program, it was a $99 PDFs, if you can believe it, that was the format in 2013. I sold it through a junkie. And I had a lot of feedback on that on my program that the moon cycles was the most interesting piece. And I was like, Well, great, because I mean, the moon cycles was the personal practice, it was what I was, it was what I was doing was what I was sharing I was doing in my personal life, I was already teaching it. So I got really excited that that was what people were interested in, in my online program. So the next online program I created was just about the moon cycles. But at the time, when I put out that first online program, I had no idea that people would buy something on the moon cycles, because people simply weren't doing it anywhere else. And so for me, it was a path that was really revealed to me by walking it. And so I feel like in terms of before we even get into the structuring piece, I kind of structure the online content, it's about trying to get really clear about what is it specifically that people want from you, and what specifically are people going to pay you for and it might be a matter of going through a few trial runs, before you get to really nail that. And then once you do have it out there be very responsive to feedback. And in fact, to be very active in collecting that feedback. And I feel that's something which I have done right from the get go and has been so helpful for me to end up refining what it is that I'm teaching, because there's a lot of different things that I could be teaching. It's just that there is a real interest in this aspect of what it is that I'm teaching, at least at this time. And the way that I structured, the different online programs, the lunar abundance alone, which was the one that ended up making me multiple six figures that online program was very successful was that I had really listened to not just the feedback on the message in those earlier two programs, which I created, but I'd also really responded to what people found easy to digest. The first program I had, sorry, the second program on the moon cycles was I had hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of video content. And what I found was that that was just too much for people, I needed to provide more pithy explanations for people, I needed to create an online community, which I didn't have for that one, which I created for the lunar abundance salon, I created an online community because people wanted to have that online, ongoing accountability. They wanted to keep sharing their experiences, and they wanted to celebrate with other people, when their intentions manifested, and they did find their soulmate. And they did, you know, end up, you know, creating a successful product and their business and got more clients and all those kinds of things. So it was really an iterative process over time, and just constantly like that infinity loop constantly going back to my audience, not being afraid to ask what it is that they liked, what they didn't like, and not being afraid to evolve both the message and then also the structure so that I was able to find that sweet spot with people and I'm in it again, right now. You know, as I'm, as I'm going into the, you know, the lunar abundance salon, 2.0, whatever it is that that will look like I have ideas, but I still don't have that locked, because I'm going through this process of of seeking feedback and training back into myself and feeling what is going to be creative and innovative. And what's really going to meet what people need right here right now.

Emily Thompson 1:01:28
Oh, I love all of that. Because for me, it's just like another adds more strength to what I was saying a minute ago about, you know, the internet, giving us the ability to make better books, where, you know, we did an interview with Maya, Gabby, and we'll include a link to that in the show notes, for sure. But she talks about, you know, iterations of online programs, and how that's just part of the process and how, how we're, I think what I'm getting out of this is that there comes a time with, you know, online content, where you start as basic as you can to get it going with a $99. pdf that you sell via e junkie, and you iterate it time and again, and you're just like you're tweaking and up leveling that content, every time you do every time you iterate until you get to a point where a book is inaccurate. Next step. And then again, like if there's, if the if the content is meant to continue, then you just iterate it again, beyond the book, I think that's such a fascinating, such a fascinating way to like, again, look at this content as like living, breathing, something that has somewhere to go, and you're here to help it along that path and to get it out to as many people as possible. I'm completely fascinated by that. And like you sharing your story, because it's one that I see that we've done as well. And I've seen lots of people do it taking, taking content that's come from, from sharing online, crafting it into a book and then seeing what happens next.

Ezzie Spencer 1:03:05
Yeah, and I feel like that is so important to have in our minds, when we are creating huge bodies of work, because I feel like if you don't have that expectation that things will continue to evolve, then you're setting yourself up potentially, for some disappointment, if you invest a whole lot of time and money and thinking to yourself, well, I'll just put everything else in my life on hold, whilst I get this project or walk or program or whatever it is out. And then I'll be set, you know, then I can relax.

Kathleen Shannon 1:03:44
I love saying this, I have so many clients over at braid creative who say I want to do branding with you. But first I need to figure my shit out. And I'm like, okay, the branding process is part of you figuring it out, as you go.

Emily Thompson 1:04:00
Yeah, you know, figure it out. It's done.

Kathleen Shannon 1:04:02
Right. And you know, one of the things that my sister has said before that is that your content, like the content you write, or the content that you're creating through your podcasts, or your book or your course or whatever it is, really does shape who you become and you know, coming full circle to my ideas around book number two, helping me explore who I want to become. It's like book number one, I felt like I needed to, like really know at all. And then book number two is an opportunity to evolve and to learn something new through that writing and through that evolution. And so it is scary, though, thinking like, Oh, this is going to be in print and I can't take it back. Like there's going to be a copy of it in the Library of Congress. It's done, you know, and there is that permanence of it that feels really good but also know it can still evolve like you can still grow. It doesn't mean that we've stopped here at book number one.

Emily Thompson 1:04:59
I love all That so much. Because I mean, we're not done creating content, like everyone is here, creating content amongst us. And then there are so many people listening to those who are creating content. So I think, I think what, what I want to what I want to start wrapping this up with is this idea of just use your voice, create the thing, get it started and get ready for a very long journey. For sure, but when that will take you really deep, I mean, even Kathleen and I have even said, We are much more interested these days and not like a hard rule, but generally in talking to people who have written books, and not because we only want to talk to authors, but because there is this level of expertise and knowing that comes from someone who has taken the time and intention of taking everything about that subject and distilling it down into a book. I think and not that writing a book is for everyone. But I think if it's something that you have the slightest inkling of doing, it will make you a better person by doing it for sure.

Kathleen Shannon 1:06:08
As he what parting message would you like to leave with our bosses and our listeners?

Emily Thompson 1:06:12
Oh, wow. Um, I feel like it is

Ezzie Spencer 1:06:19
so important to continue to cultivate that deepening connection with yourself. Because in a world with increasing amounts of noise and increasing amounts of things that you can do, you're always going to have more and more opinions about, you know, the direction you can go down and you're going to have lots of people dragging you in different directions. When you become more and more visible, insane. But I feel like the the real path for you is going to be clear for you when you are able to deeply tap into your own intuition deeply tap into your own body wisdom, you know yourself better than anybody else. And so to cultivate that self knowledge and that connection with yourself means that you're always going to be able to walk the right path for you and your business and for really, you know, everybody else who's in your orbit. So work on that before anything else, alongside everything else.

Kathleen Shannon 1:07:24
Amen. And where can our listeners find the book.

Ezzie Spencer 1:07:27
So the book is called lunar abundance cultivating joy, peace and purpose using the phases of the moon it's available wherever books are sold, so you can just google it you can type lunar abundance, spell it l u n AR abundance in to the internet and it will come up. You can go into bookshops, it's all across America so you can get it in the print form which I highly recommend because it is a living embodiment of the Luna abundance practice it's full color it's got like dental exercises, it's a real experience. And you can also come over to my website abundance comm slash book and I've got a link to the book there. And if you come over to my Instagram I'm Izzy Spencer on Instagram actually post about each one of those eight moon phases which I work with in the moon cycle so that's an opportunity as you're reading the book after you read the book if you're interested in the book come along and play with it in real time because it is that living breathing practice and I love hearing from people all around the world working with the practice. How do

Kathleen Shannon 1:08:28
you balance northern hemisphere southern hemisphere? southern hemisphere How do you balance that? Are you ever like okay for those of you in the north or those of you in the south like how what is that hard for you? Well the moon phases the moon the same God I thought that like if it was full here it's a new moon in Australia

Emily Thompson 1:08:55
door adorable cat Do you know why? I have

Kathleen Shannon 1:08:59
that is like my Jessica Simpson.

Ezzie Spencer 1:09:02
That is the most read blog post I have on my site is about that question. That is actually the number one question that people have. So it is very very common.

Kathleen Shannon 1:09:13
Well then we we can leave that in even though I look like a total since everyone else is asking it to you we're just gonna waste for you people Kathleen. your listeners, you're welcome. I will throw myself under that bus for service.

Ezzie Spencer 1:09:47
But it's so confusing because the moon even looks back around. Like if you're in the Northern Hemisphere it looks it's reversed when you're in the southern hemisphere. So it makes perfect sense but the moon phase itself is actually calculated by the moon's relationship to the Sun and the Earth, so it's a beautiful interplay with it. Okay, so

Kathleen Shannon 1:10:07
if I'm looking at the moon and it's a crescent on the left side of the moon, when you are looking at the moon in Australia, is it a crescent on the right side?

Ezzie Spencer 1:10:20
Exactly? A bit. Okay, a bit what it goes down the drain in the opposite direction.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:27
Don't go about that. Okay.

Emily Thompson 1:10:31
Mine's about to be blown. I knew about that. Take you to Australia one day, Kathleen.

Kathleen Shannon 1:10:42
Let's go Let's go to Australia and look at the moon and look at toilets flushing.

Emily Thompson 1:10:46
Sounds like a perfect date to me for sure. For sure. Yeah, yeah. All right, as the last but not least, what makes you feel most boss

Ezzie Spencer 1:10:59
you know what I love meeting people in real life who have been working with the lunar abundance practice, you know, if they've read the book, you know, that done the courses or whatever, and to hear what kind of changes that it has made in their life for the better. You know, people tell me like oh, my God, you know, set an intention. I met my soulmate, you know, I have this much more sustainable way of living, or you inspired me to write a book and now I'm doing the same thing. And I get such a huge kick out of that I am so motivated by having that direct impact on the lives of you know, clients or readers or whatever it is. That is my Boston moment. Love it. Thank

Emily Thompson 1:11:44
you so much for sharing that. And thank you so much writing this book and making it beautiful and coming to chat with us about it. I loved all of it.

Kathleen Shannon 1:11:55
Hey, bosses, I want to tell you about the CEO day kit. The CEO day kit is 12 months of focus planning for your business in just one day. So Emily and I have packaged up the exact tools that we've been consistently using for years that have helped us grow from baby bosses to the CEOs of our own businesses. gain clarity find focus, get momentum, prioritize your time, make better decisions and become more self reliant with the CEO day kit. Go to courses that being boss club to learn more and see if it's a fit for you and your business. We'd like to give a shout out to our partner fresh books cloud accounting, you can try it for free for 30 days no credit card needed and cancel anytime. Just go to freshbooks comm slash being boss and enter being boss in the How did you hear about us section. Special thanks to our sponsor 2020 who is offering our being boss listeners of five photo free trial to start yours right now go to 20 twenty.com slash being boss. That's the word 20,000 to zero.com slash being boss to get five free photos. Thank you for listening to being boss. Find Articles show notes and downloads at WWW dot being boss club. Thank you so much to our team and sponsors who make being boss possible our sound engineer and web developer Corey winter. Our editorial director and content manager Caitlin brain, our community manager and social media director Sharon lukey and are being countered David Austin, with support from braid creative and indicia biography,

Emily Thompson 1:13:30
do the work. Be boss and we'll see you next week.