Get Unstuck and Do the Work

Kathleen Shannon 0:02
Hello, and welcome to being boss,

Emily Thompson 0:04
a podcast for creative entrepreneurs. I'm Emily Thompson.

Unknown Speaker 0:08
And I'm Kathleen Shannon.

Emily Thompson 0:14
Alright, let's do this. I'm excited about talking to you all by myself today, Kathleen,

Kathleen Shannon 0:18
I know it's been a minute since the two of us have hung out just the two of us. So let's get into it. Let's

Emily Thompson 0:25
do it. I'm excited about this one, everybody get ready.

Kathleen Shannon 0:29
As always, you can find our show notes and links and all the things that we mentioned at WWW dot being boss dot club. So just the other day I was doing some of the end of the month admin, but you've got to do as a creative entrepreneur and I noticed on my freshbooks dashboard, that I was just $1,000 shy of hitting my monthly goal. And you guys, it got me in gear. with the click of a button. I sent out some invoices, I got paid within hours and I met my goals. So fresh books cloud accounting not only makes getting paid easier, it's going to help you reach your goals by giving you the status of your business at a glance. Try fresh books cloud accounting for free by going to freshbooks.com slash being boss and enter being boss in the How did you hear about us section?

Okay, so before we dig into the meat of today's episode, I wanted to talk a little bit about an Instagram comment slash question that we got about what it means to do the work. And here's exactly what our listener said. Hi, boss. Ladies, thanks for another great episode. I found you about a month ago and have become addicted. I love the topics your style, tone and atmosphere. Even though I'm a freelance designer and greeting card maker from Copenhagen, the ups and downs of starting a creative business seems to be pretty much universal. That's true. She mentioned something about taxes, but we won't go there. I wondered if you would consider doing an episode about how to get unstuck and how to keep going. I know you always say just do the work. But sometimes you can get a bit stuck. So do you have any tips on how to do the work like planning apps methods? anything really, or maybe I overlooked an episode. So once again, thanks with a little prayer hand emojis Keep up the good work PS, I would love to contribute in some way Have you considered making some cool t shirts for listeners to buy. And that's from Maria in Denmark. So first off, thank you, Maria for taking the time to listen, and to ask us what it means to do the work and how you can contribute. So on contributing, I just want to remind all of you that if you love the show, and you like listening, the best way you can contribute is by leaving us a rating and review on iTunes telling a friend about being boss, tell them what your favorite episode is. Give them one that they'll really resonate with. And finally sign up for our newsletter list at being boss club. Alright, so Emily, what do you think it means to do the work?

Emily Thompson 3:04
It means to just show up and make the motions that make the thing? I think I don't know, I kind of struggled with this question that's always come through on Instagram as well. And one of the reasons why Kathleen and I haven't been showing up to record alone anymore is that we're kind of feeling like we're running out of things to say. And then that's really not true, because we have a shit ton of things to say, we feel like there's only so many times that we can say, do the work. But Maria has challenged us to try it another way telling you how to do the work. And that's what I hope we can do today. But I think for me, the core of it is showing up and doing the motions, whatever it may be adding some intentions in that is fantastic. All the things we can, we can help you build layers on top of that, but at the core is just showing up and doing

Kathleen Shannon 3:59
it. I know for me as often opening up a laptop. I remember whenever I was graphic designing full time, you know, like I wasn't podcasting and doing all the other things that my role is now it was simply opening the InDesign file for me was doing the work. And what I really want you guys to know is that doing the work isn't just one thing, though. It's an entire exploration. And that's what our entire podcast is about. Every single episode is us digging into different facets of what it means to do the work. So the answer to your question is in every single episode, and it's not just one thing, it's going to be different for everyone. It's going to change and that's why we like interviewing so many people because what doing the work means for them is something different every single time. Alright, so next up, I freely want Maria and all of you to know that even the most successful bosses feel stuck from time to time because this is what she's really asking like, how do you get past feeling stuck. So, Emily, when do you feel most stuck? And what do you do to get over it?

Emily Thompson 5:10
Sure. So getting unstuck is something I definitely can talk about because that does that is usually like the the point before doing the work that people struggle getting past I don't think doing the work is the problem. I think that getting to doing the work is the problem. And that unstuck madness is what comes in between. So whenever I'm feeling just generally stuck, so maybe it's a really fantastic beautiful Sunday, Monday like it is today when I when we are recording, and I don't know where to begin, or I don't even know if I want to begin because I'd rather be outside in the beautiful Sunday Monday,

Unknown Speaker 5:43
I judge you'd rather be outside than he knows me right now.

Emily Thompson 5:48
Sometimes Kathleen, I would I won't take it I would love to be hanging out with you outside. That would be ideal for sure. Except we have to stay in the shade for you. And that would be sad for me.

Kathleen Shannon 5:58
I'm working on.

Emily Thompson 6:00
Good. But the thing that I do whenever I'm feeling stuck, or just not really wanting to do the work is I just show up and get it my to do list. I know that it's important. Usually you hear people to say eat the frog, for sure do the like biggest grossest thing first, but sometimes whenever I'm feeling stuck, I want to do something fun and easy first, so that I can get the momentum going to continue on with all the other tasks. So it could be something that feels gross like tackling my inbox, which for me is usually eating the frog. Or it could be something fun, like designing a new sales page or something like that, whatever it is, I just get started, I get at my to do list. And before I know it is the end of the day, and I totally did all of the things. I do often find that whenever creatives and or business owners are struggling with what it is that they want to do next, it's usually because they are being consistently faced with the decision fatigue that comes from making a million little decisions all day long about what it is that they're going to do next.

Kathleen Shannon 7:02
Amen to that. There is a point last week whenever I was afraid to open our Slack channel because I literally thought I just don't want to make one more decision. Like I can't. And it usually hits me hard on Friday,

Emily Thompson 7:16
for sure, but I find that my to do list. Opposite from slack. Like let's not talk about Slack, because I get my to do list is the thing that keeps me from getting this decision fatigue last week also, Lily went out of town for the weekend, David and I were home alone for a whole week. And we kept asking ourselves, what do you want to do next, like cuz for once we didn't have a kid following us around, you know, dictating what it was that we were doing. So I literally had to sit down at one point and brain dump a to do list of all the things that we wanted to do now that we were without the responsibility of having a kid. And that To Do List helped facilitate the next action over and over again, so we weren't having to make those decisions. So I've been super proactive in my business. And super mindful of this as well. Because I know how badly this decision fatigue can totally wreck your productivity. So I've created a massive to do list of all the things that have to get done in my business at any given point. So I batch my quote unquote what to do next decision making by using project management software to hold everything that I need to do. So I can go at one project, I can create all the tasks and schedule them all. So like one batch of decision making, will give me things to do for the next two or three weeks. And that for me has been huge and helping me feel consistently unstuck. I never come in really stuck because I just go in get on my to do list, there are no decisions to be made. Just start checking them off.

Kathleen Shannon 8:51
Yeah, I want to give you a big high five for that. And it's one of those things that I've really integrated into my process as well. Like if at any point something needs to be done, I stick it in the to do list. And it used to be that maybe it would ping pong around in my head for a while and I might come back to it in a week and be like, Oh yeah, we were gonna do that thing. It's kind of like, whenever you're supposed to get together with a friend for lunch and you're like, yeah, let's totally get together sometime. And then no one's pulling out their schedules. Like it's never gonna happen. It's the same thing with your to do list if you're feeling stuck and you don't know what to do next. Like let's say you know, even for Maria being a greeting card maker, let's say that she wants to do a round of pitches and like Yeah, that's a great idea. I should do a round of pitches sometime to like magazines or websites that focus on stationary don't keep it as just an idea start to task it out in your to do list and you'll make it do So Emily I love that you got down into like the granular day to day how to get unstuck mindset a little bit more broad. Whenever I'm feeling stuck. It's usually it feels more of like a midlife crisis type of situation. Yes. And so whenever that's happening, like I kind of I know that I'm stuck whenever I start feeling bored, or depressed or kind of like, what's the point or feeling like every everyone is doing the same thing or selling the same thing. Like, that's whenever I start to feel really stuck. And so I've just got to get out of my own head. If I am too far into my own work, I forget that there is a whole world of inspiration out there. And it's so easy to begin to believe that the bubble that you interact within like so from your Facebook groups, to your Instagram feed, even your, you know, local network of peers and creative colleagues, you start to believe that that's all there is right? And you've made it your whole world in a really good way, because you're living what you love, but it can turn on you and you can start to feel like that's all there is. So there's an entire world of inspiration out there. So whenever I'm feeling stuck, first and foremost, getting a trip on the books, whether that's a day trip or taking, I mean, this sounds cheesy, this isn't even entirely true for me. But taking a new route. Just yesterday, I took Foxy out to this little Scholastic Book Fair, where I met our podcast guest, Jessica Lauren. So that was so fun to see her in real life. But on the way back home, I took a wrong turn. And I got onto a Turnpike where there was not an exit for another 10 miles, which doesn't seem very long. But I felt like I was going to another state like I felt like I was on a long road trip. But it was so I was kind of grateful for the experience, too. I wasn't in a hurry by any means to just kind of like, get out of my daily path home and to be forced onto a detour. So on a grander scale, though, traveling to a new city or a new state, like finding something new to explore for me is huge whenever it comes to getting unstuck. So it might also even look like trying a new kind of workout. So maybe trying out a bar class that I've never tried or going rock climbing. These are all things that I've done. But at one point, they were new to me and they really kind of energized me. I also I've mentioned this before on the podcast, but listening to comedy specials is huge for me like so just laughter laughter cures all.

Unknown Speaker 12:27
That's cheesy, for sure. It's

Unknown Speaker 12:28
cheesy, but it's so true.

Emily Thompson 12:31
I love that well, and, and I do experience this too. So like there is that like finite like day to day unstuck madness that you have to have to get through. But I often are the place where I most often feel stuck is whatever I'm trying to flesh out new ideas, or I have this thing in my head that I want to put into the world It hasn't made itself into that to do list yet. So the process of getting it out of my head and into their to do list is where I usually find myself most stuck. And I like to I the same way I need to get out to get out of like where I am right now I have to get away from this computer guys like for my brain to actually work it's best I need to not be sitting where I'm sitting right this second. And where I usually sit whenever I'm doing the work, quote unquote. So what I'll have to do is walk away from my computer and I'll either go for a walk, I do love going for a good drive, or get in my kitchen and start making something or whatever it may be just so my brain can do something else. And it can wander around whatever idea for sure. And that's usually whenever some great ideas or fleshing out will happen. And then I have to sit down with a big notebook, I cannot do this at the computer, I have to do it on a notebook, and brainstorm like pen to paper. And so I have several notebooks that like if I were to show them to most people, it's just a jumble of words and weird columns, like nothing makes any sense. But it totally makes sense to me. So whenever I'm feeling unstuck, I have discovered this process for for getting things out of my head. And it includes getting away from it for a minute or a day or two. And then coming back pen to paper to flesh things out. And then at that point, I'm able to take it, put it into my computer into my project manager management system as a timed line list of tasks, so that from then on out, there's no decision making, it's just doing the thing I've been wanting to do. You know,

Kathleen Shannon 14:26
and I also want to share that there have been problems to be solved that we've been stuck around for months at a time, like it isn't always resolved within two or three days. As decisive and fast acting as we are. There are some things that just need time to unfold. So I want to throw this out there too, that if you're stuck around kind of a big picture idea, or a business model idea, or a big marketing idea or even a branding idea. Um, you might just need to give it a few like keep doing the work. So like, we're talking But now going through the motions of making things happen and getting hired and making transactions where you're getting paid to do the work. But if it's like a really big idea, maybe just give it some time to simmer on the backburner a little bit and come back to it whenever you're ready, or whenever the ideas ready,

Emily Thompson 15:18
for sure, giving yourself grace and permission to do that, I think is imperative for a working creative, where you cannot be making all the things all the time, if we were to act on every idea we've ever had. Shit, guys, seriously, my life would be intense, and not the kind of intense that I would enjoy by any means. But by giving myself the grace and permission to put things on the shelf for a moment, so that I can do the work. And also let those ideas, marinate and mature and do whatever it is they need to do before I take action. I think being very mindful of that is super important for, for putting your energy where it needs to go most in the moment and also not jumping on ideas too terribly early. But that's a whole other conversation for another day.

Kathleen Shannon 16:05
All right, so beyond getting stuck on things, how, how do you like what's your mindset or attitude when it comes to doing the work and making sure that like, you're still a happy, productive person, even whenever you're feeling stuck, maybe or like kind of grinding through that to do list,

Emily Thompson 16:23
right, actually doing the things that I don't want to be doing. I have to totally set myself up on a sort of reward system to get through most of my days, or like my to do list is, is thick, like it's, it's quite hefty. And sometimes it can be really overwhelming, especially on Monday mornings, like Monday mornings, I usually come in the earliest, I'm usually hitting things the hardest, because it's overwhelming all the things that I have to get done, and I need to get out them or I'll just like lay in bed and cry all day. Not really, but maybe. So I have to give myself or I have like a little reward system where you know, if I click all my buttons for the day, then I'll treat myself to lunch on the front porch, instead of at the kitchen counter or wherever it may be. And it's little things, it's little things like that, that really, really help. But I also think that like regardless of what I'm tackling, and how big my to do list as I have to be positive about it, if I were to get up any day and be overly bitchy about what it is that I have to tackle in any given day, let alone being crabby on the daily about it, then I might as well just throw in the towel and I have totally adopted whenever we did our interview with Lisa Congdon and her partner clay, like we chose this mantra, I have to tell myself that not too often because I do tend to stay pretty positive but sometimes have to remind myself that I chose this so that even if an upcoming day or week is super overwhelming, or just really fucking mundane, I chose it and I'm going to do it and I'm going to enjoy it. Otherwise Don't bother. What about

Unknown Speaker 18:17
that all sounded very positive.

Emily Thompson 18:22
Should I left my job and like, I also I get to do cool shit, we get to do really, really cool shit. And it still work though. Like, whenever I have a totally had work, right? Whenever I have a task on my to do list that like it's Friday are releasing a minisode about cocktails and I have to go do an Instagram story where I'm making a cocktail. That is still a task on my to do list that I cannot mark off until in the day Friday. So no doing it early. And actually, the day that I had to do that if you guys aren't familiar. A couple weeks ago, we did a cocktail minisode I wanted to do an Instagram story. It was a great idea weeks in advance. So I made myself attacks where I even think Caitlyn did it, which is even worse, and someone else gives you a task. It's like a whole other level of what the fuck. So Friday comes around. I did not want to make a cocktail. I did not want to do that shit. But it was on my list. And I really did want to do it. And so for me, that was one of those moments where I had to just do it and smell and I loved it. The cocktail was fantastic. And the whole time thing and yes, this is my job. And this is a pretty sweet job. If ever there were one so even like even the really exciting things can feel really mundane, but it's keeping that positive attitude that makes you enjoy the fun things as well as the not so fun things.

Kathleen Shannon 19:43
Okay, I want to dig into a couple of things that you said there because I have a few ideas like this is behind the scenes real chat. You guys

Unknown Speaker 19:50
helped me out Kathleen.

Kathleen Shannon 19:51
So one thing is that um whenever it comes to other people tasking you with to dues one of the things that I love about our Wednesday morning meetings With our entire team is that we are all just kind of chatting through our week and our tasks and our to do's. We're kind of blending Big Vision ideas with daily grind tasks that we need to get done. But what's cool about it is that because we all use the same project management software, typically everybody's tasking themselves with things to do, or like, we're kind of talking about it out loud. So it doesn't feel so much like everyone's the boss of everyone else, right? It's kind of like we've set our team up so that they are the boss of themselves in a lot of ways. Yes. But one thing I was thinking is that we always have a money. Monday morning huddle, the two of us kind of over slack. And I've been realizing that it gives me a little bit of anxiety, like waking up Monday morning, knowing that I'm about to get like a list, right of like yours that you've got on your plate. Here's what I need from you. And here's what we're doing, right? Yep. So I was thinking and I got in yesterday, Sunday evening,

Emily Thompson 20:59
I noticed Kathleen got ahead of me this week, guys. She was like, Fuck you, Emily. I'm doing it.

Kathleen Shannon 21:04
Because like I had an anxiety about it, you know. So what I was thinking is, I wonder if Monday's are already crazy for you, like hitting the ground running. We should do those on Fridays, like either Friday, or Friday afternoons and kind of like, here's what's happening in the week ahead. And it might help us prepare more instead of feeling like we're jumping into cold water on Monday morning, or hot water depending on what

Emily Thompson 21:31
season. Right? I'm totally down for shifting that that's actually a really good idea. Because I usually get in, I usually do a quick look through evolve my things Friday in the day, like I'm done with all my things for the week. I'm not gonna work anymore, but what do I have looking ahead? And then I always do an even more hardcore, like, what's ahead for my week, either Sunday morning, or Sunday night or Monday morning. But if I could do that Friday night, I wouldn't have to worry about doing it Sunday night or Monday morning.

Kathleen Shannon 22:03
So there we go. This is what it looks like you guys to do the work in action. We have discussions like this.

Emily Thompson 22:10
love that idea. I'm totally down. I'm sorry, it gives you anxiety, let's fix it

Kathleen Shannon 22:13
No, like not in a bad way. And not even in a real obvious way. It's one of those things where I didn't realize how much it was maybe weighing on me and more than anything, probably just because I work out first thing Monday morning. So I don't even see it until three hours after you've written it. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, Emily must think I'm slacking whenever like it's my same work schedule that I've always had. Right?

Emily Thompson 22:33
No, I know you're coming in later. It's fine. But no, I think that's a, that's a wonderful solution.

Kathleen Shannon 22:39
All right. So I wanted to share one of my mindset tricks for not necessarily getting unstuck, but getting really focused. And for me, of all time, like if I could just pick one thing, if yours is like being positive, and I chose this, mine is getting really specific about what it is that I want. So really thinking about what I want to be doing all day, thinking about what I want to be doing a year from now and really visualizing it. So that might be getting on Pinterest and making a mood board of what it looks and feels like to live the life that I want, or even writing a really detailed story. So we were up in Toronto for our freshbooks event. When was that last October, October?

Emily Thompson 23:25
Yeah,

Kathleen Shannon 23:27
hashtag being boss, Toronto. And we hung out with my friend Tammy falls. And she's a life coach who uses a specific practice called Bhavana Bhavana.

Emily Thompson 23:39
I remember talking about this, when I that's not the state and I can never,

Kathleen Shannon 23:42
I can new words. I can never say it. But it's basically writing out a very detailed story about what you want and getting as detailed as possible and are coached or my coach Jay prior tells me this all the time, which is if you can see it, it's yours. And so those are kind of the mantras that run through my head every single time whenever I'm feeling stuck or even need to get focused. It's like okay, what do I want? And this is everything from where do I want to live? To? What do I want to be doing all day like my work to what do I want to make next? All of it?

Emily Thompson 24:19
No, I think I think that's really important. Being able to get super, super specific about what it is that you want and gives you the path forward. Whereas if you don't know what you're working for, you're just gonna be all over the place because there's no end point. But if you can create that end point doing the work is so much more focused. And also not what is the word I'm looking for not forgiving, but gratifying. Because you know, you're working for the thing that you want. And so I think that makes doing the work a lot easier. you're much more likely to actually show up and do it if you know what will happen when you're done.

Kathleen Shannon 24:57
So we're friends with a lot of very successful and Driven entrepreneurs, I listened to a lot of podcasts where some, like major entrepreneurs are being profiled. So we're talking to Richard Branson, like the top dogs, right Oprah, all these people. And so I went in for us to brainstorm some ideas about the qualities and characteristics that really successful people portray whenever it comes to their mindset, specifically, so whether that's around getting unstuck, or getting focused or just doing the work. So one of the first ones that I thought about was always being like a student of life, always learning something new. So whether that's reading books, or just having conversations with mentors, or listening to podcasts, I think that the most incredibly successful people I've watched are constantly continuing their education, they're taking courses, they're practicing their craft, they're doing it all the time.

Emily Thompson 26:00
So that I agree with that. I also think part of that is also being open to be proven wrong. I think whenever people shut themselves off to learning, they're shutting, or if they're shutting themselves off to learning, they're probably the kind of people who will like say the thing and then be sure they're so right, that they won't listen to anyone else's, like opinions or facts. And I think that whenever you can have an opinion, or you know, give direction or whatever, but be open to learning that maybe your way isn't the right way, or that your answer isn't the one, then you are much more open for growth and evolution, which I think is super important for someone who wants to show up and do the work, you can be better at doing the work if you learn from others.

Kathleen Shannon 26:47
And I think that that plays into just being really curious. And so even from our Instagram question like how do you get unstuck? When am I ways is just asking a ton of questions like How could we be doing this better? And it's something that we do all the time? How could we be doing this better? What's working? what's not working? What could be refined? Who could we learn more from? getting really super curious? Like, why why are we doing it this way? Why is everyone else doing it this way? is a really great way to get into a mindset that's going to lead to success, or, or just a lot of confusion.

Emily Thompson 27:26
What are the I think there is I think there is the possibility for being overly curious. I think people can use curiosity or use like never ending curiosity as a way to procrastinate actually doing the work, which I think is a sticky place to get into. So just curious enough for sure, but not so curious that you're just asking questions and not doing anything else?

Unknown Speaker 27:49
Oh, damn,

Unknown Speaker 27:50
right.

Kathleen Shannon 27:51
Oh, no, that's a good point. And, you know, I think that there's these juxtapositions with all of this, whenever it comes,

Emily Thompson 27:58
I think it's all a balance, I think you can I think you can learn too much and never actually take action, I think you can be overly curious and not ever actually take action. But I think some of this is all very important. Um, I also, I also think that a boss needs to tap into some luck, a little bit. I love this one a ton. Because I do believe in luck, for sure. But I think you have to prepare yourself for luck. I think you have to put yourself in the right place at the right time. I don't think you just happen upon it. So I think what there's like this really cool thing, and everyone should know that we suck at these sayings or something about like, successes where preparation meets luck or something like or

Kathleen Shannon 28:45
like, luck shows up whenever you're doing the work.

Emily Thompson 28:49
Maybe Maybe we can just make up these bars. So I like this intimate hopefully you guys know what we're going for. But that's how I feel about luck is that you have to you have to meet it. And that does not just come to you. So I also think part of luck is having that positive attitude. I think you can believe you're unlucky, I think you can believe that. Nothing good will ever happened to you. And you'll be right. But I think you can go into the world thinking that if I do these things, great things will happen, then you'll also probably be right. So I think luck is something you do have to cultivate.

Kathleen Shannon 29:22
Yeah, I once saw a study that kind of measured luck. And it was literally the same for everybody. It's just that people either identified as lucky or unlucky. So it was up to them. But I believe in a little extra luck and really taking note of luck and I think that's when you do a great job of Emily is taking note of synchronicities and that's where it like shines big time. So I've been listening to a lot of how I built this that I've talked about it a lot on this podcast. They're not advertising with us. So whenever they're profiling, like the founder of whole foods or the founder of Patagonia, I feel like a lot of them have talked about how they were working just as hard as any of us, right? They just got lucky. And that was the difference between millions and billions. So I'm still working toward the millions. But I think that luck is what will get us the billions.

Emily Thompson 30:25
Amen to that, yeah, must start rubbing my pennies together, whatever it is that you're supposed to do to bring good like, I don't know, cross my fingers and my toes. Um, I agree. But beyond luck, I think that being kind and being honest, are two that are super important in this being kind with others and yourself and honest with others, as well as your as yourself. Those are some basic one, guys, super basic ones that are very important that you still need to practice them.

Kathleen Shannon 30:56
Right. And you know, just stuff like knowing your strengths and weaknesses. I know that that's shifted my work and my mindset, whenever I just know what I'm good at and what I'm not good at, and then doing what I want. Yeah, like get unstuck by doing what you want to do.

Emily Thompson 31:10
Right? For sure. And I think that even like getting down to like business model, knowing your strengths and weaknesses, like you know, for designers who are doing branding, but hate websites, but do it anyway, even though they know they suck at it, or whatever it may be. Don't do them know your strengths and weaknesses, double down on your strengths and find ways to either overcome or ignore your weaknesses. whatever needs to be the case, I also think that part of being able to show up and do the work effectively is owning your shit, whatever you think that may mean, I think that people who don't succeed are the people who are passing the blame to other people, or people who aren't handling problems, whether they're their own problems, or someone else's problems that you just need to shut up and fix and go on with your life, whatever it may be. I think that think that a boss knows how to knows how to own their shit and problem solve along the

Kathleen Shannon 32:07
way. Yes, and then also just persevere. Like keep doing it. Keep doing it every day going up ever all the time all day.

Emily Thompson 32:18
I agree. So I want to talk I want to talk for a second about one of the things that sort of prompted this episode, or at least is wanting to dive into this a little bit more. When we were in New Orleans a couple of months ago, shooting our book photos. We were having lunch in between photoshoots at this really cool restaurant in the quarter. And we were just like sitting there seeing you and our friend Sarah Becker Lillard, he was doing our photos we were just chatting and we were talking about or talking about the book. And we're talking about our team and how things were going with, with the things that we were doing, and the upcoming projects and things that we want to do. Like it's just like fun girl time business talk, as a food, little little booze as well as a great time. And there was this guy who was sitting at the bar, and we noticed him being kind of chatty with the with the bartender. He was there alone. And we were just talking though minding your own business. And as we were getting up to leave, he stopped. And he stopped us to ask us our advice, which is well, he goes, can

Kathleen Shannon 33:18
I ask you guys a question? And I was like, Oh, great.

Unknown Speaker 33:21
Right here. Yeah.

Kathleen Shannon 33:27
But yeah, it was so funny, because he was like, You guys look like, I don't know you're in charge. Right?

Emily Thompson 33:35
So you guys look like you know what you're doing?

Kathleen Shannon 33:38
And we were talking about business. So we were and we're not the quietest people. We're not? We're not dainty ladies. No.

Emily Thompson 33:45
We're definitely going and telling everyone our business, whether they want to know it or not. So I'm sorry.

Kathleen Shannon 33:52
But we're talking about things like our book, because obviously we're there shooting our book, we were talking about our team and roles. I mean, whenever Emily and I get together, literally, if we're sharing a hotel room, before the light comes on, we might be talking about work. So we're talking about upcoming projects and dreams and ideas. And so I think that he really noticed not only the stuff that we were talking about, but that we were having a really good time talking about business, like talking shop is our hobby. I mean, that's how this podcast started. And I think that he noticed that we were conveying confidence whenever we were talking about it. But then also, I think that he probably thought that we were somewhat approachable. Maybe had nothing to do that with the fact that we were in full hair and makeup for a photoshoot.

Emily Thompson 34:39
Right? Or maybe we just looked fantastic. And he wanted to chat with us next, which I'm totally down for. I mean, whatever it was, he felt that he could he could stop this for a chat and so we did.

Kathleen Shannon 34:49
Yeah, and so he was having a problem. Do you want to share with our listeners what that was? Sure. Let's

Emily Thompson 34:55
see if I can remember it more or less. Before he had went on vacation. To the French Quarter, for a couple of days, he, he had hired a new assistant and the new assistant had showed up. And was fantastic was sort of dream assistant material. She was there for two or three days. And then just before he left, she didn't come in the last day before he left and didn't call, didn't email, nothing, just total, no show. And then I think the next day, like the day he left, she also didn't show up. And then once he got there, she texted him. And it was some mess about like, not feeling well, and he was wanting to know what he should do. Because the right thing would have been for her to text or email or call the first day and say, I'm not coming to work. That's not what second day, the second day and the third

Kathleen Shannon 35:45
day, like if you're not coming to work, you need to let someone know every single day that you're not coming in,

Emily Thompson 35:50
agreed. And so especially like new job, all the things and so his question for us was, what would you do? What would you do in this situation?

Kathleen Shannon 35:59
Are we answering that on air?

Unknown Speaker 36:02
Well,

Kathleen Shannon 36:03
I don't know. Yeah, I can't remember what I said. I can't, like I think I go she's out.

Emily Thompson 36:09
I think you did. And I was like, consider giving her a second chance. Cuz I remember us both like having opposing views. Yeah, we usually do.

Kathleen Shannon 36:17
Which is funny because I just had a situation like this and you were like, she's gone. And I was like, I'm gonna give her a second.

Emily Thompson 36:25
Oh, actually, I also was a Pimm's cup date, and therefore significantly more forgiving.

Kathleen Shannon 36:32
So Emily's your boss, give her a drink before having a hard conversation.

Emily Thompson 36:37
Right? I'll be much more pleasant for sure. And that's just general general conversation, for sure. Um, so I can't remember how it all ended up ending. But I remember leaving thinking, no, quite often we have conversations about like, what dudes think of us as like cute little creative entrepreneurs doing their thing. But to be, you know, in a place where we're having conversations about how legit our business is to have a dude, a grown man, an older man stopped us to ask us our opinion, for a scenario such as this gave us both not didn't give us confidence, because I think neither of us lacked confidence in that area at all, but was sort of a note of like, you know what?

Kathleen Shannon 37:23
We are bosses. Fuck, I know. You know, I hate to say that that incident was validating because I don't need my bossiness to be validated by some middle aged white dude. But it was kind of validating. And I think it's because I mean, we're coming from centuries of, you know, like guys being in charge. And we're coming from a culture and society that value suits more than values creativity. And so for us to be in the middle of this incredibly creative city, working on a very creative project that we are getting paid to do not sitting in suits,

Emily Thompson 38:02
having booze, cussing, and laughing as we're talking about our business and have some guy value our opinion, was it was gratifying for sure.

Kathleen Shannon 38:13
It felt like a certain amount of just recognition or even acknowledgement from, from what has been deemed as capital P professional,

Emily Thompson 38:22
greed. And so and we wanted to share this story as just like, as a showcase of what showing up like a boss can look like to other people. And again, not that we're like super concerned about what everyone thinks about us, even though as a brand you obviously should. Kathleen and I have cultivated not only a brand that showcases this like we're boss, we do the work, whatever it may be. But we exude this in public, when we're having private conversations as you are practicing these values as you are showing up and doing the work and giving it your all and all the things that we preach consistently. people notice and it matters to people and they see you as someone who is an expert or professional or someone who can help even if you break all the traditional molds, Kathleen and I were there full hair makeup, like tattoos, showing drinks in our hands, all the things and I was probably wearing a see through shirt. I think maybe I had no not that day. I fully covered that day. Maybe that was it. Whatever it may be, that was a moment for us or we saw these like these pillars of bosses come together for us in a way that that showed us that the work that we're doing, not only like in our business, but what it's done for us personally, is definitely putting us where we want to be we want to be the kind of women in business that not only women look up to, but men do as well. Well, because the shit that we're doing is real.

Kathleen Shannon 40:03
Yeah. And that's a whole other conversation when he does

Emily Thompson 40:07
save that one for later.

Kathleen Shannon 40:10
So I feel like there's so much more that we could say on the subject of getting unstuck and getting focused and what it means to do the work and really run it through all of our pillars. But today, we talked a lot about mindset. And I think that's probably a good place to stop. And we'll make sure to cover more around what it means to do the work whenever it comes to habits and routines, boundaries, money, and even, you know, processes and apps and tools that we use. So if you guys haven't checked out any of our archives, be sure to scroll through and pick one that stands out to you listen to it, share it with a friend, have a conversation about it, and you'll really start to uncover what it means to you to do the work via Zynga and then you can go have cocktails in New Orleans and hope to get hit on slash ask for advice by some dude tip he

Emily Thompson 41:04
did not hit on us. That's rude of me.

Kathleen Shannon 41:06
No, not at all. I I feel like I'm gonna have a vulnerability hangover about that conversation because I think like ultimately, I don't know there's like a certain amount of acknowledgment which makes me think like if you need acknowledgement, a lot of us are doing work by ourselves and we feel like what are we working for? It's it's hard to kind of work in a vacuum if you feel isolated or like you're not being seen or heard by anyone. So I think I was just like a good moment of, I don't know being seen

Emily Thompson 41:35
right? Well, proof I think it was a good rule of proof where which is something that you need occasionally. So thank you man it kingfish you win.

Kathleen Shannon 41:49
This episode of being boss was brought to you by fresh books cloud accounting, thank you to fresh books for sponsoring us and you guys can try it for free by going to freshbooks comm slash being boss. Thank you so much to our team and sponsors who make being boss possible our sound engineer and web developer Corey winter. Our editorial director and content manager Caitlin brain, our community manager and social media director Sharon lukey. And are being countered David Austin, with support from braid creative and indicia biography.

Emily Thompson 42:19
Do the work. Be boss, and we'll see you next week.