Episode 180 // Being Boss as a Freelancer or Employee

Kathleen Shannon 0:01
Hello and welcome to being boss,

Emily Thompson 0:04
a podcast for creative entrepreneurs. I'm Caitlin.

Sharon Clause 0:07
I'm Sharon and I'm Corey and we're being boss employees.

Emily Thompson 0:17
Hey bosses. Today's episode is a little bit different. we're handing the microphone over to our employees our sound engineer and website developer Corey winter. Our editorial director and taskmaster, Caitlin brain and our marketing and community assistant, Sharon lukey. Kathleen and I have mentioned several times that you don't have to be the boss in order to be boss. So who better to dig into the concept of being boss, even if you're not running the business and the members of the being boss team who helped us make it do and are total bosses themselves. As always, you can find all the tools books and links referenced in this episode on the show notes at WWW dot being boss dot club.

Kathleen Shannon 0:59
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Caitlin Brehm 2:21
Hey, guys, hey, wait, hold on. We started. Yes, Cory, we started. We've clearly never done this before. So stick with us listeners because the employees are taking over this episode. Okay, but guys,

Sharon Clause 2:37
I'm nervous. I feel like my boss handed me the keys to her Porsche. And she's like, have fun.

Corey Winter 2:45
I was gonna say I have some serious frati feelings right now. Well, here's

Caitlin Brehm 2:48
the thing. This episode, I'm willing, Kathleen, talk about all the time how you can be boss without being the actual literal boss, CEO of a company. And I feel like we all know more about that than that. So in terms of Friday feelings, calm them a little. Yeah, we are in our allotted. Let it go. Cory, big exhale. This is gonna be really fun, guys, we have a lot of cool stuff to talk about. So let's start out with just introducing ourselves because I think probably most of our listeners aren't familiar with our voices. So do you want to go in order of how long we've been around and being boss? And let me is starting with Cory? Yeah, let's do it.

Corey Winter 3:33
Sure. So my journey with Emily and being boss goes all the way back to 2013 when I was still in college, and I was looking to get some experience for a career in website development. And so I saw that there was an on campus part time position for a website developer opening up. So I applied for that job. And I got an interview for that job. And I guess the interview went really well because a few days later, that interviewer actually contacted me saying that a local website developer business had contacted him looking for an assistant. And he thought of me, and he put us in contact and a few days later, here I am meeting Emily with her business and he shot biography and did back then. And he shot biography was Emily's main focus. And she was doing it all by herself. She was managing the clients. She was doing the website designs, she was building the websites, she was doing everything, which is where an assistant would come in. And so fast forward a little bit. She hires me, and I start off by just doing email support and doing a little bit of button pushing on client websites. Fast forward a little bit more and I have become the full time website developer for any shop biography while Emily has turned her phone gets on to project management, and coaching. And then a little bit further down line. Emily has started the big boss podcast with Kathleen. And it wasn't too long before I took over the editing job of editing all the episodes. And so I guess fast forward to present day. And being boss is now my main employer, where I'm the full time web site developer. I'm the full time podcast editor. But then outside of my work for being boss, these past couple of years, I've also been a part time website developer for companies, such as Biddy Tarot, calm and a practical wedding calm. And then if that wasn't enough, I also have my own clients that I do one off projects for here and there. And then in my spare time, I'm also a part time drumline instructor for a local high school. And you're very good at what you do Corey, let's just say that. Caitlin, what about you?

Caitlin Brehm 6:01
So I'm Caitlin and I started working with Kathleen at braid creative similarly to how Cory started working with Emily and D shot biography. I had been working, I had a different full time job at that time. And I had been following Kathleen's blogs since when she first started braid creative. She was one of the first bloggers I followed. And I was having one of those moments at my full time job where I was just not happy. And I was like fantasizing about quitting. And then Kathleen had posted on Instagram that day that she was hiring an assistant to do I forget even what it said. But it was three bullet points. And it was simple. It was something like managing social media, answering emails and strong communication or something like that. And I thought, Oh my gosh, this is what I do every day. And I'm really good at it. And I've never done any sort of virtual assisting type thing before, but I'm just going to email her because who cares? And there were already like, 70 comments on that post. So I was like, She's not even going to respond Anyway, I'm just like, this is my act of defiance, and I have to do something. But then she did respond almost immediately, and ended up hiring me as a virtual assistant at braid creative. And during that little interview, she said, Yeah, and I'm starting this new little podcast side project. So that's something I'm really excited about. And then a couple of weeks later, she started saying, Hey, can you just help, you know, write the Show Notes for this episode. And I started slowly getting kind of pulled more into the being boss side of things, too. So now, I am not full time at being boss, but I am on retainer. I do the show notes. I kind of just do. I don't know, it's hard to explain. People, my friends and family asked me and I'm like, I kind of do a bunch of everything. Like I help write out marketing plans, and kind of more. I mean, you all know, listeners that Emily is all about the good marketing plans. And she's kind of trying to pass some of that over to me. But usually she'll get in there nerd out, write all the marketing plan, and then leave it up to me to make sure it happens to test it all out and everything like that. So I think that's kind of the best description of what I do. But I also have a couple other clients too, that I do similar sort of VA work or writing type work for them, too.

Emily Thompson 8:31
So that's me, Sharon, what about you?

Sharon Clause 8:34
While Caitlin we've chatted about this before how we have a little bit of a similar story. But I'm the newest member of the being boss team. I was hired about two years ago, to work with Emily as her assistant in both indie shop biography and being boss. And I love this story. It's one of my favorite stories in the world, but I'll give a brief version of it cuz it's just like yours, Caitlin. I was I was actually working in just a small retail shop and my manager Becky Gourley was super into like the entrepreneurial efforts and she said, Sharon, you want to be an entrepreneur one day, you have to listen to this podcast. It's called being boss. And at that point, I wasn't listening to podcast. So I was like, maybe later, but she kept like pushing it. She was like, you really have to listen to this. It's amazing. So finally, that summer, I started listening to it. And it was like, Oh my gosh, this is exactly what I need. I'm in the middle of launching some of my own things. And just from listening to Emily and Kathleen, they gave me the foundation to build my business, the bear bride. And it was just it was amazing. It was the perfect timing that that came into my life but I also felt that I needed some more financial security while i was growing my business. And so Emily posted on Social media or wherever, saying, I'm hiring an assistant. And I was like, hell no, like, I'm not applying for that. I have no assistant experience. But three of my friends send it to me. And they said, Sharon, this is perfect for you. Plus, you're like obsessed with Emily. I was like, exactly like, I can't work with her. I'm obsessed with her. Which I did apply, and I got the job. And ever since then, it's been awesome. I work hourly for Emily and Kathleen. And today, my official title is marketing and community assistance. So I help with marketing. I also manage a lot of the community staff. So I answer a lot of emails, I do scheduling. And I also have some of my own clients on the side, like we all do. I do copywriting and editing on the side for other small business owners. That's awesome. And that's us. Okay,

Corey Winter 10:57
so I kind of want to piggyback off of that, and, you know, kind of highlight how all of us have kind of had that entrepreneur bug, like, each of us, in our own way, is an entrepreneur, Sharon does have her own business, Caitlin, you have your own clients, and I'm a salaried employee. But I also have my own clients, like we all want to be an entrepreneur in different ways and be a business owner in different ways. But we also still find fulfilment being an employee, for someone else that's running a business.

Sharon Clause 11:28
Absolutely. I think when you're freelancing kind of it, it gives you that opportunity to have that self starting, like I still get to call some of the own shots and but their security that comes with it. And it's just, it's been a really interesting balance. And I feel like it could be fun for us to talk about just that experience as a whole. You know, pros and cons of freelancing, if

Caitlin Brehm 11:56
you will. Yeah, because I think a lot of our listeners, pretty much everybody who listens to this podcast, like Corey said, has that sort of entrepreneurial bug, you can have the entrepreneurial bug without actually wanting to be a solo business owner, because there are definitely pros and cons of that. And Emily, and Kathleen, I think I've talked extensively of that. But then, so I think we have a couple different camps of listeners, we have listeners who are already doing it, they're their own boss, they have their own business, they're ready to go. They're growing that and then we have some bosses who listen who have full time jobs, and are deeply unhappy in those full time jobs. And they listen to the podcast, because ultimately, they want to make that leap and be their own boss. But those are just two ends of the spectrum. And I think we fall in the middle. And that's what we want to talk about today is how you can be boss without being that solopreneur CEO. And while either working in a team or pursuing freelance projects that are more short term and kind of juggling a couple different things. Because that's sort of what we've got going on. And there's certainly fulfillment in that too. And total bossiness. I love that.

Corey Winter 13:10
Yeah. And like, you know, coming out of college, my plan was to start my own website hosting business, like I wanted to, I had a huge plan about what I wanted to do coming out of college and was being my own boss. But I found that fulfillment, working for Emily and working for being boss, and now I'm perfectly happy, being an employee, and you know, my side projects for Biddy Tarot and everybody, you know, that's just, you know, to give me something else to do, so I don't get bored working for being boss.

Caitlin Brehm 13:44
So you're right, Corey, you are a full time employee. I am on retainer and Sharon's submitting hours, working hourly. So we kind of represent all different avenues have this sort of path. But let's sort of talk about for our listeners, if you are looking to sort of pursue this sort of in between path not quite your own capital V boss, and not quite, you know, nine to five desk job. What are your options in between? And what are sort of the pros and cons of that?

Sharon Clause 14:14
Let's do it. Okay, let's talk about what some of the best things about freelancing are to us. And I think for me, the first thing that stands out is that freelancing really gives you freedom, like even though you're accepting tasks and projects from other people. First, you get to decide who those people are, you don't have to work for people or businesses or companies that you don't feel in alignment with. And then second, you also get to say like, Hey, I am out of office these days, and these are the hours that you can reach me and these are my rates, and you can increase those rates if you want to, and there's just so much freedom within freelancing that I have really come to love Caitlin, do you have anything that stands out to you as pros of freelancing in your life?

Caitlin Brehm 15:05
Um, I that's actually I really love what you said, because that is, most of the reason why I am on this path is because when I was working nine to five desk jobs, even if I liked what I was doing, I was subject to the values of that company. So I had to work with the types of clients that they wanted, even if they weren't the types of people that I wanted to be working with. And that can be really hard. If it's directly in opposition. We're not 100% opposition, but if it doesn't quite line up with what you want to be doing. So yeah, definitely freedom in working with the type of people that you want to be working with. But then also, it just, I think that it helps you. What I love about freelancing is that it keeps you from being stagnant. Because you're always learning something new, and you're always doing something new. Even if you're doing a similar type of project each time, you have to relearn the systems. If you're working with somebody new, or you're researching something different, or you're trying to make sure that you are on top of whatever skill it is that you are doing. So if you're I don't know, doing social media, you have to make sure that you understand all the changes and algorithms so that you can be competitive with everybody else. And you know, some people might see that as a con, there's a certain amount of pressure in that. But I think it's exciting to kind of have to be in this place of constant growth.

Corey Winter 16:38
Yeah, I love what I do for being boss. But it does get a little repetitive. For instance, when I had to edit an episode of the podcast, it can take up to three or four hours. And in any one week, I might be editing three or four episodes. So that's as many as 15 hours a week that I'm having to listen to Emily and Kathleen Han repeat. My head, which is a treat Cory as a treat is nothing wrong with listening to them talk for hours on end, it does get a little monotonous. And that's where my side projects come into play. My work outside of being boss helps me to change things up so that I'm getting some variety and my to do list. It allows me to constantly get a breath of fresh air so that I'm staying happy in all of my different jobs.

Sharon Clause 17:27
But let's be honest, sometimes freelancing is not a treat. There are some serious issues and obstacles that you have to overcome when you are kind of creating your own path with like picking and choosing different freelance projects. And for starters, even though there is stability within finding like a great retainer client or having a job like I do at being boss where I know I can count on a certain amount of hours every week, there's still some income like instability there. Because there's a lot of pressure on you as the freelancer to find the clients and make sure that you hold on to the projects that if one slips out of your income one month, that's money that you're not getting that month. And that's like a major cause of stress and anxiety for me, definitely. And I assume for a lot of freelancers, because you love the pros, you love the freedom and flexibility. But like, dammit, I just lost that client or I can't get more clients. And that's really a serious struggle.

Caitlin Brehm 18:36
Yeah. Another con, I think of freelancing is you have to, I mean, it's a pro, everything's kind of like a pro and con, you have two sides to everything. But you have to have super solid boundaries, and a super solid sense of responsibility. Because in most cases, if you are not devoted to the company in terms of being a salaried contract employee, which is really kind of the pro for the company, is that they have you under this contract, and they kind of more or less own this amount of time of yours, right. So if you are in a situation where you're just doing freelance for somebody and you don't, they don't have that sort of ownership over your time. I think people sort of have the tendency to be a little bit more helicoptering over there. Freelance contractors, which if you are responsible, responsive person, it's not a big deal. But you know, if you're juggling a couple different projects, you have to make sure that you are being open with everybody in terms of when they can relax, typically expect that work back and how much you can take on. So there's kind of a big learning curve in terms of having those boundaries and making sure that even it's easy to have like creep on your time. Oh, yeah. They're like, Oh, can you do this extra little thing? And this is one of my biggest struggles, because often, I am choosing these projects. And so I love doing them. And I'm like, Oh, well, I can just finish this small little thing off the clock, which I can do. But that's not fair to me. So, definitely maintaining the solid boundaries. Yes, a struggle. Yeah,

Sharon Clause 20:24
I love that, Caitlin. And I think for me, one of the other biggest struggles is that as someone who has been trying to grow my own business or businesses because I both run the bear bride, and I am a copywriter, I'm gives so much creative energy to being boss, because I love being boss, and I want them to have like, the best of my work. You know, when I'm writing content for Instagram, or I'm writing an email for a marketing funnel that's about to go out, I want them to have like my prime content. You know, like, I love when Emily's like, Sharon, that was so good. But then at the end of the day, I have sometimes like zero creative energy to put towards my own use and put towards my own business. And that's really hard, because I've heard Emily and Kathleen preach, like, do your projects first. But would they feel the same way if I told them that, that like being you know, you know what I'm saying. And so, saving energy for yourself, can be hard when you want to give your clients the absolute best of you. And, you know,

Corey Winter 21:35
it's not just creative energy, it's also physical energy. Because, you know, sometimes you could end up working 50 or 60 hours a week, if you're doing a full time job and a side hustle and everything. So like I work full time being bas, which is, you know, 30 to 40 hours a week, depending on the workload. But then for, you know, Biddy Tarot, I can work anywhere from five hours to 20 hours a week. But also, I have other hobbies that are also paying jobs, like I teach a local high school drumline that is competitive during the spring seasons. So, you know, that's five hours a week, 10 hours a week, depending on the week, where I'm also having to leave my home to go to this high school and teach high school drummers. So, you know, like this week, specifically, I'm doing all three like Betty Terra has a big project launch coming up. So I'm working 15 hours a week for being boss. I'm still on polygon work about 30 hours this week. But we're also taking our big championship trip this week for our drumline. And so I'm going to be gone for four days this week. Damn Korean, I'm physically drained already. And it's only Monday. So, you know, there there, there are some cons to taking on these side projects. But in the end, you know, I'm still happy doing what I do.

Sharon Clause 22:55
Yeah, that's the matters. And I think a good thing about taking the time to talk about and like weigh these pros and cons is that it can help you decide what's the right fit for you moving forward, like what do I What do I want my day or my life to look like, three months from now, or six months from now. And by just kind of being aware of the ups and downs of freelancing or having different clients on the side, it can help you figure out what you want, and then how to go for it.

Caitlin Brehm 23:27
Totally. And just really quick here, especially for bosses, who are more on the nine to five day job that they hate spectrum, looking to make this leap, whether that's as your own boss or doing freelance work. Yes, you learn what you want to do, and the capacity in which you want to work by doing the freelance stuff or by building your business. But there's so much understated value in learning what you don't want in the nine to five day job that you're in now. And I think, especially if you are listening to this and you're still in school, and you haven't had a job, like a adult world sort of job yet, there is so much value in just going for that nine to five desk job, even if you know that that's not endgame, because you will learn so much about how not quite a functional adult working world is. And that is really important for figuring out how you want to work.

Sharon Clause 24:27
Yeah. And it gives you experience. It gives you good experience that you can put on your resume moving forward to get just one step closer to where you do want to be totally, because there are different kinds of freelancing you can when you're ready to move into that direction if you feel that's right for you. Just like how Caitlin Korean I have different ways of rocking out what we do. There are different ways that you can bring freelancing into your life so like I have hourly here at being boss. And then I also have some clients who just hire me for a one off gig, like just this morning, I woke up, and I was writing a couple Facebook ads and a couple social media posts for a life coach. That's it. That's all she wants for me this month. And that's awesome. It was like a quick little project, I don't have to worry about maintaining that, like an ongoing project with her. And it was a great way to get some extra cash in my pocket.

Corey Winter 25:27
So I'm also realizing, we might be really bad at saying no, because we do a lot of stuff.

Sharon Clause 25:32
Oh, that's so true. What? And that goes back to like that scarcity mindset of like, Am I gonna lose a client? Am I gonna lose a project? Am I not gonna be able to get enough clients? And so when something lands in your lap, it's really hard to say no,

Caitlin Brehm 25:45
yeah, totally. And that all comes back to those intense boundaries that you have to have. So it really comes back to really outlining what you need in order to do your best work. Because, like Cory was saying, it's kind of easy to especially if you're working for a couple different people, and you don't necessarily have control of all the ones we're ending up in the same week, you're going to either accidentally become a workaholic, because you can't say no to projects, or you're going to have to allow yourself to be a workaholic, to get through that launch week. So knowing ahead of time that hey, these are the conditions that I need in order to thrive. And being really honest with yourself about how much you need to get paid for your time. Tracking your time and being upfront with all of your communication is super key.

Kathleen Shannon 26:40
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Sharon Clause 27:23
So I'm curious, Caitlin, do you have any, like one off days or as most of your work with your clients? Like retainer like you have with being boss?

Caitlin Brehm 27:36
Yeah, so I have done all of it. I was into just one off gigs for a while. But since I started working with being boss as one of my clients, which I did, at the same time, as I was trying to start my own business. And doing that would have been, you know, having my own clients that would have been just, you know, a couple months on projects, I realized that I really love building that relationship with whoever I'm working with. So I, I personally thrive in more long term, contract based situation. So I'm taking on a new client, it's going to be kind of for the foreseeable future. And I might start out with just, you know, a couple hours per week with whatever they want me to do. Or even if it's more like a writing project, and they're like, Hey, can you help me write for this thing, and then you're kind of in my pocket for if I need somebody, again to write for me, because personally, it's important for me that I really, totally understand the business. And I have a good relationship with who I'm working with. But I totally understand the pros and the appeal to just doing kind of a bunch of one off projects that you know, you get it done. And then it's done.

Sharon Clause 28:51
You made a good point, though, that there's, I think you can kind of reap the benefits of a longer term relationship a little bit more, because let's say I have a one off gig. And they want me to write some Facebook ad copy for them, but I've never spoken with them before. That means that I have to spend a lot of time getting to know them, their brand, voice, their needs, and all of this work just to write, like for Facebook ads, whereas I could invest all of that work, really getting to know them and building that relationship. And then just like writing it for months, and knowing that like along the way. I'm just getting to know them better. Which core you can probably relate to this because you've worked with Vinny Taro for a while correct? Yes. But I'm curious to hear from both of you like how you go about getting clients like so Caitlin, you said your ideal client would probably be like a retainer client or Cory. I don't know what the case is for you. But what are some steps that we can offer the audience that we use to reach out and start building those relationships, whatever they might look like?

Corey Winter 29:53
It's actually kind of interesting that you asked because, in my case, all of my projects All of my side gigs were the direct result of me having previously worked for Emily, when a practical wedding and baby Taro, were looking for website developers on a part time basis, they contacted Emily. And Emily recommended me. And based on her recommendation, they thought I was perfect for the jobs and they both hired me. And so it's just a lesson that if you are a good employee, your boss is going to be more willing to be a good reference for you, when it comes time for you to want to pursue other avenues of work. Totally. I love that.

Caitlin Brehm 30:39
Yeah. And that's a lot of how my projects have been, too. Obviously, when I first started working with Kathleen, it was more, I had followed her for a while. And then I reached out to her when she said that she was hiring. I've also reached out to people when they didn't say they were hiring, but just I kind of saw a need. And I had been following them for a while. But in both cases, it's I'm very familiar with their work. And I admire them as a person and business owner or, you know, whatever capacity they are. But most of my work is referral based kind of like Corey where I have these connections, because of past work I've done. And either the person I have done the work for has said recommended me to somebody else who needs similar work, or somebody just has seen my work, because they also follow the person I did the work for. And so they want to hire me for similar thing, too. So at this point, that's my only way that I want to get work from now on is by referral or by like, already building on top of our relationship that I have.

Corey Winter 31:50
Yeah. And to go along with that, like you mentioned that you got some clients because they saw your previous work. When I was hired by Emily, I didn't have any previous work. Like I didn't have a portfolio of past websites or anything like I was going in there. You know, I was still in school to like, I didn't have a degree yet. Like she hired me as a sophomore in college.

Sharon Clause 32:12
What the hell was she thinking? It works great. It worked out. I definitely agree. Caitlin. I think that word of mouth clients are my favorites, because they're usually recommended from people that I've already worked with. And 99% of the time really enjoyed working with them. So that saves me a lot of like, time having to chat with them and just feel it out. Like do I even like this person? Usually, if someone's recommended to me, I'm like, okay, you know, Kathleen, just sent someone in my direction. So I'm like, Well, if this person is friends with Kathleen, and I probably love to work with them. So it's, it's great. It's great to do that. And I love the idea of just showing up at work and knowing that every time you put work out into the world, even if it is just into like one office space, that you're working no farther than that, just by showing up every time and like doing your best. I can't believe that's it's motivating absolutely, to do your best work every time you show up.

Caitlin Brehm 33:11
Well, and that's a huge reason why I think that literally everybody should be building and developing their personal brand. Because even if you don't have work for somebody else to show, you can be either, you know, writing blog posts on your personal blog, or making videos or a podcast, or just those little passion projects that show people what you're capable of. And most people when they are looking to bring somebody on to hire them, obviously they're looking for whatever skills you have, but they're always looking for how you're going to fit in terms of your personality. If they like you, if somebody doesn't like you, they don't want to hire you. And kind of having that personal brand out there helps just attract people to you as a person, so that when you do have something you want to offer, they're like, Oh, yeah, I like you and you can do this thing. Cool. I'm gonna reach out. It's a good fit. So I want to just backtrack really quick. We talked about Cory and I were talking about how we have gotten a lot of gigs through past employees or people we've worked with before and you're on YouTube, but I also know Sharon, that you are kind of like the pitching queen in terms of writing projects. You have done quite a bit of cold pitching. How do you how do you do it like you've gotten featured in like magazines and stuff

Sharon Clause 34:27
as a side thing, which doesn't always pay money. I'm, I'm just a writer, like I love to write dream guys right here. putting this out into the world. I want to write for Nat Geo one day like that's my kind of thing people. So when I'm not like hustling it out focusing on making some money while doing what I love. Sometimes I'm just doing what I love. So I have pinched myself to write for magazines and i've i've been publishing an international magazine. I'm working on a A couple other features right now. And while they don't always pay, it really, really fills my cup, like to hold the magazine and be like, Damn, like, this is my writing. And it gives me some energy to keep going in some of the other stuff I do, because I am super creative. And it can be hard showing up and like just writing content for like Instagram and social media when I'm really curious. And there's so many things in the world I want to learn about and write about. So, I mean, that kind of brings another element into our conversation about doing what you love, like outside of work, but here's where I can tie it back in. freelancing gives me the flexibility to do that kind of stuff. Like if I was working 40 plus hour weeks, there's no way in hell I would be using my extra time to, you know, pitch myself to write for magazines, I just be like, dammit, I just need some Netflix code I don't want to write anymore.

Caitlin Brehm 35:56
But I think there's a huge parallel between pitching yourself even just kind of more for pleasure writing projects, and people who are just putting themselves out there to get freelance projects, a lot of times when you're just getting out there, you have to kind of cold pitch yourself to even get projects in the first place. So have tips for not pitching yourself as like, I guess it would be kind of similar as pitching yourself as a guest on a podcast. So Emily and Kathleen have said, but if you were kind of to take the skills you have learned for pitching yourself for your writing projects and apply them to if you were to do that as a freelance position, what would you say to our listeners?

Sharon Clause 36:37
That's a really good question. And I do have an answer. I think that I think the word cold pitches just sounds like weird to me, because it sounds cold. And I like really warm. Like a warm pitch, where the main thing that I focus on is connection, like my number one thing, I'm not going to pitch someone I don't feel like we'd have a personal like relational connection. And that goes for being on someone's podcast, like, why would you want to be on someone's podcast, if you don't feel like you'd Connect, like what an awkward conversation to be in on. So I like, for example, when I was featured in this international magazine, white, it's, um, it's a magazine for weddings and marriage. And I heard that the editor of Wired magazine was going to be in New York City all the way from Australia. And so when I knew that I had the opportunity to hop on a flight and go down there and meet her for coffee, I did it. And it was just like, cold in the sense that we had never met before. And I did want to kind of pitch myself to her. But it was far more warm in the sense that my number one priority was just like making a connection. And if nothing came of it, that's okay. But I, I want to form relationships with people. And I want all of the interactions that I have with people, whether under the name of work or not work to be really positive and bring good into the world. So that would probably be my main suggestion is just whether you're pitching someone for work, or you're pitching someone to do something outside of work that just fills you find the connection that you have, and really highlight it and don't be ashamed of it. Like when we want to get certain guests on to being boss. I strategize with Emily and Kathleen about like, what personal connection do you have with this person? Do you share something in common? Did you grow up like watching something they were in or sharing a similar passion. And by bringing that first and foremost to the table, you're making it way less about business and more just about being human. And I feel like that's what's getting through in today's cluttered world. Love it.

Corey Winter 38:46
Before we go on to the next topic, I do want to go back to what Sharon said earlier about her dream is to be a writer for natgeo. And my dream to be working for being boss. I mean, it is a pretty dream. me wrong. But you know, my dream is still to run my own business one day, you know, that might be 10 years down the road. 20 years down the road right now, though, I'm still happy being an employee, like I'm still building myself for the future. Totally. So my dream may still happen one day, and I hope it does. But right now, this is what I'm good at. And I'm happy working for somebody else.

Caitlin Brehm 39:24
Yeah, well, that's actually a really great segue, Cory, because that is one of the things or the main thing that we want to talk about here is that, I mean, the reason why you want to do your own thing is because you want to put your own projects, your own work, have control over what it is you're doing and your creativity and put that out in the world. But you can absolutely do that while working for somebody else. You can have ownership of what it is you're doing and be boss within that team. Especially if you are sort of getting to that point where you have the connection and the trust with whoever it is that you're working under. Oftentimes, if they see that passion in you, and they see that you want to be putting cool things out in the world and you're aligned in sort of your visions, they can give you sort of more rein to do that. But really quick, before we jump into that, let's just recap sort of this first part of Okay, so you want to be a freelancer, you want to start picking up projects, and contract jobs, just sort of trying on different hats of what you can do. Top Tips for doing so. personal connections, I think we all kind of agree there, take a look at who you know already, who you've enjoyed working for who is currently familiar with your work. And I loved Becky Simpson's recent episode, where she was talking about how she has chipper things, her business and she went back to a full time job. And one of the biggest breakthrough she had in that journey was just telling people that she wanted work. And so I think that a lot of people that you already know, that you already work with might have a perfect fit for you right now. So just kind of putting that out there, as long as it's safe, and you're not in danger of getting fired from what you're currently.

Corey Winter 41:15
Oh, yeah, you know, I always check with Emily before I take on another project, because I want to make sure my boss is comfortable with me taking on work outside of being boss, because I don't want her to think I'm spreading myself too thin. So networking is great. Just make sure it doesn't go against your current jobs, wishes totally. And then

Caitlin Brehm 41:40
make sure that you're sharing your work and putting your personal brand out there. Which is kind of the same thing as if you're starting a business right? Like, share what you want to be known for, and share what it is you're interested in, I think kind of especially if you're not quite sure. And you're sort of going the freelance contractor route, because you are sort of exploring what it is you want to do or what kind of business you eventually want to start just sharing everything and anything you're interested in or learning about or exploring. And just kind of see what sticks with people or what people gravitate toward or what someone might say like, Oh, you went on this trip, I am a person who needs somebody to do stuff like that, or your photographs were gorgeous. And I would love for you to come like be the photographer at my event like you can get so many different opportunities from just sharing what it is you're really excited about in the moment.

Sharon Clause 42:42
And I think every single opportunity is valuable because something I've been struggling with is I I'm very futuristic. And so I see my end point, like I see where I am 1015 years from now. And I It feels so good. And it's so crystal clear. But the in between space is always a little foggy for me. And so that's something I've been wrestling with is just the in between and the value that's in the in between. And that's why I love this conversation that we're having, because we're sharing like all these little bits and pieces that we're collecting along the way. And I think that they're all part of like a much bigger picture that even if we can't see it right now. We will 15 years from now or five years from now and we'll look back and be like, dammit chair and you wasted so much stress. Because it's in between, it's in the in between where you really learn a lot of things and and you can really grow a lot. And the reason that we're here talking today is because it's in those in between moments, that you can be a boss, you can like really rock out what you're doing. Even if you don't feel like all the pieces are in place that doesn't discount it as like not mattering it doesn't discount it as just being like a small you know, thing for now and moving on No, like really be there really own it. And so I feel like it could be fun for us to share, like a few ways that we found we've been able to be a boss, by freelancing or being employees or wherever we are right now you're in, you're in a situation that you love, you know, or just like, it's where you're at, how can you be the boss,

Corey Winter 44:18
bring ideas to the table. Like it doesn't have to be you don't have to, you know, if you're an employee, you don't have to strictly stick to your task list. Like it's it's okay to venture out and try to help your company grow as an employee. Like, I guess when I first started working for Emily and for being boss, Emily and Kathleen called the shots like they were the idea makers, and I just put their plans into motion with what I do behind the scenes. But you know, within the past year or so, I was like okay, well I love your ideas, but I want to put my voice out there as well. And so, you know, a few months ago I started bringing cup live yet idea. So that table, one of them is a very big project that will being boss will be introducing later this year. And I've kind of taken the reins on it like Emily and Caitlin, and you know, the rest of the big boss team, they're contributing to this project. But you know, I'm the project manager and the way in the way, that's, it's my baby, like, I'm the one that came up with this idea. And now I'm the one that knows how it's gonna work in the long run. And, you know, addition to that, I brought the idea to the table about doing an employee centric episode to being boss. And

Unknown Speaker 45:37
are you guys so excited that there's a lot of editing that's going into this episode. Yeah. I wish you guys could hear this version of this episode, because I think

Caitlin Brehm 45:49
that's a really good point, Cory, is you were saying that at the beginning, it was Emily and Kathleen, calling the shots and user implementing. And that's really important, no matter where you are, so whether you are working a nine to five, or you're kind of a contractor more position, but it's more long term that you master your exact job description first. But then the boss news comes in going beyond your job description, and sort of bringing more into your job description that you want to be there. And of course, always making sure that you're getting compensated for that extra stuff. But that's what's going to really sort of enrich your experience and whatever you're doing and really make you feel boss, because you are pitching projects, like the secret project that I'm working on, or a podcast episode that you want to see, or even sort of a marketing idea, because everybody has different perspectives. And especially, you know, different we as sort of a more not CEO biases can probably relate more to our listener base at this point than Emily and Kathleen can. So we can even sort of see holes that might be missing, missing from more of a beginner perspective than they can and sort of help fill that in and take sort of ownership of that side, too. So I think that's super boss, when you can go above and beyond your exact job description,

Corey Winter 47:16
I was just gonna say it doesn't Yeah, doesn't have to be a new idea. It just has to be a new perspective. And from there, your boss might give you more freedom to do new things.

Sharon Clause 47:25
Yeah. And my hope for our listeners is that they have a boss or someone that they're working for who can hold that space for them, and wants their ideas, because it can be a little suffocating to be somewhere where they don't. But I think that once you really find that groove and you find that special place, you can really continue to be the boss by taking ownership of your work. So the things that you create, or that you put out there, you realize that even though it might be under a different brand name, you can kind of just like tuck away some confidence inside because you know, like, Hey, I wrote that, like, sometimes I go on the being last website, and I'm like, I totally wrote that. And it just feels good. Even though my name isn't like right underneath it, it just it feels good to be contributing to something that's like a little bigger than me. And that also comes from making mistakes, like take ownership if you make mistakes, and just be humble because you're human.

Caitlin Brehm 48:20
Well, I think something that we the three of us do really well is we are more in sort of the doing or making sure that the podcast happens. And the podcast is kind of the machine that started this whole thing. And that has been happening. Emily and Kathleen are kind of more in this position of Okay, what's next? What are we adding on? How are we dreaming bigger? And we're kind of making sure that the things happen that have always been happening that have worked for us so far. And a lot of that we I think at some point, each of us have spoken up and said okay, hey, whenever this happens, we need a system so that I know to do this. Or when this happens, wouldn't it be easier if then we had an automation where this could happen? So we're kind of thinking more of how can we make this business run more efficiently, because we're in it, and we see it and making it run more efficiently makes our jobs easier, makes us more boss for making the business more about us and the leaves more room for some of those additional projects that we might want to take on.

Sharon Clause 49:24
And then by doing that, like we are really meaningfully contributing to and helping build the business like we are helping to build being boss, which is really exciting. And one it is one exciting example of that is that just recently like we read the being boss book, even before the editors did, like we get to be behind the scenes like in the nitty gritty of what it takes to build a business and it's super valuable. Like I've learned a lot, right.

Caitlin Brehm 49:55
And that's cool on our end. Obviously that's exciting, but it's also beneficial for Emily Kathleen. Because we were actually the ones who read through the book and said, Hey, you have nothing in here about being a mom and a boss. And like your

Sharon Clause 50:08
mom, so that our mom boss I mean, Caitlin Cory. Well, Caitlin would be a dad boss, but we're not mob bosses. But we, we got you. Caitlin's gonna be like, Okay, good.

Unknown Speaker 50:25
We just delete that, Cory.

Unknown Speaker 50:29
I meant to say, Cory, I'm really sorry. We knew what you meant.

Caitlin Brehm 50:33
Okay, so we've talked about how you can be boss when you're not the boss. So let's say that you haven't done any of this stuff, any of this stuff yet? What are the next steps if you are currently working for somebody else, and you're like, Okay, I think I'm ready to be more boss within this role.

Sharon Clause 50:51
The way that you can really rock it out as a boss in your situation is that you bring your own ideas to the table. And don't be ashamed of them, like your bosses probably really want your ideas, and then take ownership of the work that you put out there, I think we talked about a bit. And even if you're, you have something that like goes a little bit outside your job role, but you want to go above and beyond, don't be afraid to do that. And when you show up by having like, different ideas for structure and boundaries, the different systems that can be put into place to make the process even smoother, you are making your job easier, and you're making your boss's job easier. And in the end, you're being a part of something really cool and bigger than you. And that's awesome. And you're helping to build a business. And so you should totally rock it out as a boss, even if you're not the boss. But I think that something that I really appreciate is how Emily and Kathleen really care for us as employees, and they've kind of like, given us a good amount of space to do what we need to do to thrive within this working environment. Yeah,

Caitlin Brehm 52:02
it all comes down to communication and trust. And the more communication you have with the people that you're working with or working for, the more trust, they're going to have in you to be able to grow into this boss attitude. So if you want to do different things on what you're doing, don't have a positive attitude. Um, if you want to try on new things within your job role or pitch new projects, a lot of times it just comes down to having that conversation with whoever it is you're working for. I know, I was working my first nine to five job I had what became pretty monotonous. And I was good at it. But I realized that I wanted to do some more web based stuff, too. I'm trying to like explain this job without saying what it was. And my boss at the time was the head of the department I was working in. But he also had built a maintain the website. And so I just had a conversation with him one day, and I said, Hey, listen, I'm doing all this stuff. I feel really solid and what I'm currently doing, I am on it. I have a little bit more space in my day. And I would love to learn more about website stuff. So do you have any small tasks that you don't want to do anymore that you could pass off to me so that I can kind of start learning about this stuff, too. And he was totally receptive to it, because he doesn't want to do the dumb little website stuff. But I was psyched about doing them because I had never done that before. So just have that conversation and worst case scenario, he would have said, No. And I would have kept doing what I was doing. So always just put yourself out there. Have a conversation with who you're working with. And even if I had said, like, hey, I want to do some website stuff. And that wasn't what he wanted me to do. But he did see that I wanted to grow beyond what I was doing, but had a different project in mind. He could have given me that too. So there's always opportunity just

Sharon Clause 54:06
talk about it. Yeah, being open to it. It was interesting is like hearing us have this like going on over all of this, like how you can be a boss, it makes me think of like the boss pillars that the being boss brand is really built upon, and how those totally apply to you when you're freelancing. Or even if you just have like a few different gigs and maybe you don't have like, this is my business title. Like you're just figuring it out. You're kind of like riding the waves. The boss pillar still apply. So the first one that comes to mind for me is like habits and routines. Because if you don't have your habits and routines down as a freelancer, you are going to struggle like say goodbye to your Saturdays and Sundays because you're going to be like trying to wrap up all these different projects emailing all these different clients. You need to have like the habits and routines down That will help you really stick to your schedule and and know what you're going to wake up and do every day and, and know what you need to how you can set yourself up for success by doing these things like every single day or like once a week doing this task. And that been so helpful to me within my own freelancing journey. And then that also makes me think about boundaries, you know, especially with thinking about the weekend. So I'm curious to hear from you both, like, do you have one tip or like one rule that you stick to that really helps you maintain your boundaries as an A quote unquote, employee working for other people.

Caitlin Brehm 55:44
Boundaries is like my biggest struggle and what I'm working with most right now. And I think the biggest boundary that you're going to come up against as an hourly Freelancer or a contractor that has a certain amount of hours to work with is that you are trading your time directly for money. So your biggest boundary is I'm not going to work past this time that I'm allowed landed. Or I'm not going to do work if I'm not on the clock. But I'm curious Cory, because you are a salaried employee. So you are not directly trading hours for money. But of course, you have to be protective and build those boundaries around your hours and other things. So what sort of boundaries are you working with as a salaried employee?

Corey Winter 56:32
Well, the funny part is that last year, Emily had to have a hard talk with me. Because when I originally agreed to go on a salary, because when we started off with being Boss, I was hourly. When I originally agreed to go on salary, Emily's conditions were that I would work at least 30 hours a week, but no more than 40. Last year, I will not go into too many specifics. Last year was a pretty awful year for me, both personally and professionally. And it got to the point where I was not meeting my hourly goal of 30 hours a week for being boss. And it was pretty consistent, I was pretty consistently awful at meeting my salary, salaried, hourly goal. And Emily sat down with me. And she was just like, you know, if if you don't improve your commitment, then we'll have to either take you back to hourly, or we'll have to renegotiate how this works. So that's actually when I started, you know, putting myself in the mindset of being a better employee. But at the same time, you know, nowadays I am meeting my early goal, but there's also the whole, you know, because you're salaried, there will be weeks where you don't have 30 hours of work to do. But there will also be weeks where you have a full load of 40 hours to do. And so to help me start reaching that I really go, because of work from home, you know, hours can be pretty weird. But Emily, and I were just like, well, since you're salaried, how about, you work it as a nine to five job. So you clock in at nine, nine o'clock in the morning, you clock out at five o'clock at night. And I'll hold you to that, you know, Emily was saying, I'll hold you to that. And we'll reevaluate how this is working a couple months from now. And so I stuck to that and say, I was magically meeting I really go. So, now that I've done that, for a few months, she's relaxed her nine to five requirement a little bit. And every once in a while Emily Will have her weekends where she's working, or her late nights while she's working. And she'll, you know, she'll send me a question or something over slack. But she doesn't expect me to reply right away, because she knows I have those boundaries as an employee, that, you know, I clocked out at five o'clock, so she can expect me to do anything until the next day, unless she was nice enough ahead of time and asked me Hey, can you be here, after hours to do something for me, and in that instance, you know, because she asked me how to time it was fine. But then for my other jobs, you know, for like Biddy Tarot, they're actually based in Australia. So like, their time is completely opposite of what mine is, when I'm working during the day, they're sleeping in opposite of that. And so, I will oftentimes wake up at eight or at seven o'clock in the morning, and I'll have a full slack load of new messages and questions and stuff, just like oh my god. But at the same time, I know that they're not expecting me to reply to their messages at two o'clock in the morning. And like they they, as employees, or as employers know that I have those boundaries. Like they're not expecting me to work at two o'clock in the morning. They're not expecting me to work on the weekends. And because when I originally was hired by them, I was like, Hey, I have to have these boundaries, or else I'm not going to be very efficient for you. As a developer,

Caitlin Brehm 1:00:01
but I think that illustrates the point really nicely, too. I mean, we've been talking a lot to the freelancers and contractors and people who want to be those. But if you are a boss of a business, and you want to hire on freelancers or contractors, and you want your freelancers or contractors to sort of be bosses within the role that you're giving them, it's really important to have that open, open communication, from your end to on hold space, to allow your employees to feel comfortable to do that thing. So Cory are saying how, you know, Emily was having that hard conversation with you. That was hard conversations are never pleasant, but I think Emily is really good at just having conversations in general. So she does a lot of check ins before it even gets to a hard place. And she makes sure to hold that space of what are your goals for what you are doing? or How are you feeling right now about what you're doing? Or let's just talk about it? What are you excited about? What are you doing, but he wish you weren't doing anymore? And that really sets the stage to allow people to be boss within what they're doing to?

Corey Winter 1:01:07
Oh, yeah, like I said, Emily, and I had a hard conversation, we actually had several conversations that were like, medium hard leading up to the big hard one. Because she did have she did, you know, approach me like, Hey, are you happy doing what you're doing? You know? How can I she actually asked me, you know, how can I help you with your work? And so I guess it I guess what I'm trying to say is, help your boss help you? Yeah, that's good. Like, if you're having a hard time with your work, talk to your boss and see how they can, you know, maybe rearrange your task load or rearrange your schedule or read, communicate what your boundaries are, so that they're not doing something that you're uncomfortable with.

Sharon Clause 1:01:54
I love that. And I also think that one of the other big boss pillars that I've been thinking of, as far as being a boss is even individual employee would be the mindset that you bring to the table, you know, and that definitely ties in right there. Because as someone who you know, has been trying to build my own things on the side, it could be super easy for me to come into being boss with feelings of like jealousy, or like skepticism, or just like, you know, like, oh, they're doing so well. And I'm over here, like, you know, but when you come to the new shop, to work with a mindset of like feeling celebratory in their successes, because you're a part of them. And also embracing mindsets of like, I have enough time to make things work on my own, and I have enough resources and just choosing to bring those mindsets to the table can make a big difference in every single day. Totally. And I think that by coming to the table with that mindset, it it just really sets you up to thrive in your work environment. But just like you were saying, Cory, like help your bosses help you. I'm so grateful that Emily and Kathleen have created a space for us where it's not that hard to cultivate that kind of mindset, like, I don't think I've ever really struggled with like feeling jealous of them or anything because I feel such like I feel like I'm such a part of what they're doing. I don't feel like it's a me and them. It's definitely an ice. It's like the being boss team. Even though their faces are like on the website. They've just done such a good job of holding a really awesome space for us as employees. Would you guys agree?

Caitlin Brehm 1:03:51
Yeah, I absolutely agree, Sharon. And I think that a lot of people are attracted to the entrepreneurial as in being the CEO boss life because they are unhappy in what they're doing, currently. And so that they think that if I'm unhappy in this job, I'm unhappy working for anybody. But really, I mean, I think I've sort of come to the same realization as you I did try and sort of be my own CEO, boss, and it's a lonely life, and there's a lot of intense hustle. And I could do it and I might still try and do it again someday. But I've found that helping bring someone else's hustle to life and their vision to life is just, it's not as lonely. You get to be part of something bigger. And I think that a lot of people are sort of in that point. There's this book called rocket fuel that Emily Kathleen had mentioned several times before, where it's about sort of this balance between the visionary more CEO type person and the integrator, which they call sort of the CEO To person. And I think we are more sort of integrator type people. And a lot of integrators have that drive to be leaders because they're good at what they do. And they have the communication abilities and the motivation to be in that good communication with their visionary to make it happen. But they mistakenly think that they themselves are visionaries, because they've never had that good relationship with whoever they're working with yet.

Sharon Clause 1:05:28
And that's the megaphone. Yeah, it's like, I can't think of how many times like, because I've had bad bosses, I've been like, well, I guess I have to be my own boss. Right? What if you get a really bad ass boss, who makes you feel like, everything is working out really great. And like you love showing up to work each day. And oh, my gosh, I feel like I'm like saying, don't be your own boss. But that's not like, you know, six months down the road from now I might be in the place where I'm like, Alright, guys, I'm gonna take a leap and be my own boss, because that's where I'm at right now. But it's just such an interesting journey of like ups and downs, and different realizations and learning yourself and learning what you need, as opposed to what you want.

Caitlin Brehm 1:06:07
Totally. And just as you can test and change in your business, you can test and change as an employee. Just because you're unemployed doesn't mean you're going to be an employee forever. Just because you're a boss CEO doesn't mean that you can't go back and work for somebody else. And there's no shame in it. Either way, you can be totally happy doing both, or neither. Yeah, and I think that

Corey Winter 1:06:26
really sums up the whole idea behind this specific episode is that not everybody is cut out to be a business owner, not everybody is cut out to be their own boss, it's okay to be an employee, it's okay to work for somebody else. But at the same time, you still have to take ownership of your job.

Sharon Clause 1:06:43
Yeah. Yeah. And like, celebrate it. celebrate the fact that even though you don't feel like the life that you want right now is like the CEO life, your life still matters. And like the things that you want to do, and the projects you work on, they matter. And with so much like social media noise, and like everybody's trying to get their face or their project out in the front, it's hard to find the value in the smallness of your journey. And like, the anonymous moments where you're like, Okay, like, I am basically ghost writing for people, like, putting all my energy into something in my name is not going to go there. It's hard to be like, but it's still values. But it does. Like it definitely is valuable. And yeah, it's just, it's part of the journey. And I think we need to give the in between journey, a little bit more credit than what it gets. Yeah, because I think there are far more of us inbetweeners, then there are of anything else, but it's just it's the people at like the end point, you know, or like, at the CEO point that we see, we see the CEOs, and so it kind of makes us feel smaller. I don't know, those are my thoughts.

Caitlin Brehm 1:08:03
So let's give our listeners a little bit of next steps they can take, whether you are wanting to cultivate more freelance or contractor positions, or maybe even your boss and you want to hire on a freelancer contract positions, I think a resource that we have that was really helpful for this that we don't usually apply to this situation is the hot shit 200 lists. So I'm including it in the show notes because I write this. But go ahead and download that list. And sort of, instead of using it, how we usually do to sort of network with other creative business owners use it to sort of outline who you already know, who is familiar with your work and thinks they're doing a good job, who could potentially be a lead for new projects or new work. Or if you're looking to hire people, maybe even write down a couple businesses that you know, that are functioning really well, that you can reach out to them and say, okay, so do you have any recommendations of people you've worked with in the past, or people who are currently working for you, but maybe not in a full time capacity that could also work for me, or even just people that you've noticed online that have a talent, and maybe they are a business owner, but you know, you can do both, you can be a business owner and a freelancer. So I think that's a really good way to sort of dip your toe into this is to really write out a list of people who are already kind of along the lines of what you might be looking for who

Sharon Clause 1:09:41
could already help you. Yeah, definitely. So those are a couple tips that we have for you guys. That I feel like you guys what would be a really fun way to end this is if we shared what makes us feel most boss What do you think?

Caitlin Brehm 1:09:57
I mean, it's how all the episodes are ended. So I got three as Yeah, we have to do it. Do you wanna go first? Cory? No. So Caitlin, Caitlin, what makes you feel most badass? I feel most badass when I'm working with a couple different people, and something goes wrong. But we handle it because our systems are on point. So there have been a couple times where like, a an automation didn't happen of being boss, or like somebody had trouble purchasing something or something happened that wasn't supposed to. And even between the three of us, I think this happened one time, and I wish I could remember the specifics. But Emily and Kathleen, were maybe in the middle of recording, so they weren't available to help, and we just handled it. And that was so bad. Because we didn't even like freak out. We had great communication, and we had developed systems that work really well. And that just feels super bass to me when you can get through a curveball like that.

Sharon Clause 1:11:04
I love that. I feel like when we go to our next like New Orleans event or something, we're gonna have shirts to say like being boss team on the front and on the back. It's just like, we handle it

Unknown Speaker 1:11:15
sounds like a terrible idea.

Sharon Clause 1:11:18
Or like, we'll handle it. I went back Caitlin, what about you, Cory? What makes you feel most

Corey Winter 1:11:25
badass? Honestly, it's when Emily or Kathleen or Bridgette over at Biddy Tarot, take notice of something that I've done to further their business. And, you know, doesn't necessarily have to be something public, like, you know, an Instagram post or something. But it's, you know, a private message when, when I've done something and they say, hey, this was great, you know, thank you for doing this or this was awesome of you to do this or something like that. Just I guess the recognition is what makes me feel boss because I know that I'm helping them. Like I said before, further their business

Caitlin Brehm 1:12:03
is words of affirmation. Is that your love language?

Corey Winter 1:12:06
I guess, words of affirmation, I guess is is what makes me feel most boss because it's confirmation that I'm being boss.

Caitlin Brehm 1:12:13
Yes, I love that. Okay, what about you sharing what makes you feel most Boss,

Sharon Clause 1:12:18
I feel most boss when I feel free. And freedom to me doesn't mean just freelancing. Or it doesn't mean being my own boss, or it doesn't mean anything in particular, because it changes from season to season. And so freedom could mean financial freedom, it could mean some flexibility in my schedule to take a vacation when I want. And I think that by allowing myself the freedom to let that grow with me, kind of sets me up for success because it allows me to embrace the fact that freedom is going to look and feel different ways at times. And that's okay. But the pursuit of it is what I need to keep my eye on, like what do I need to do today that will help me feel more freedom in my life. And some days it means I need to make some more money and work a little harder and other days, it means I need to just chill out and let the bank account sit for a sec and get some rest and rocket out. rock it out like a boss. And you guys I feel like we should give a special shout out to Emily and Kathleen for letting us take over an episode. Emily Kathleen, thank you so much. We know you're listening because you said you were going to and we appreciate you and we're so glad that you value us as your employees and you care about us both in work in life and hope you think it's cute. Hope you think this is at least cute.

Kathleen Shannon 1:13:54
Hey bosses, I want to tell you about the CEO day kit. The CEO day kit is 12 months of focus planning for your business in just one day. So Emily and I have packaged up the exact tools that we've been consistently using for years that have helped us grow from baby bosses to the CEOs of our own businesses. gain clarity find focus, get momentum, prioritize your time, make better decisions and become more self reliant with the CEO day kit. Go to courses that being boss club to learn more and see if it's a fit for you and your business. We'd like to give a shout out to our partner fresh books cloud accounting you can try it for free for 30 days no credit card needed and cancel anytime. Just go to freshbooks comm slash being boss and enter being boss in the How did you hear about us section. Special thanks to our sponsor 2020 who is offering our being boss listeners a five photo free trial to start yours right now go to 20 twenty.com slash being boss. That's the word 20 then to zero.com slash Boss to get five free photos. Thank you for listening to be boss Find Articles show notes and downloads at WWW dot beam boss club. Thank you so much to our team and sponsors who make being boss possible our sound engineer and web developer Corey winter. Our editorial director and content manager Caitlin brain, our community manager and social media director Sharon lukey. And are being countered David Austin, with support from braid creative and indicia biography,

Emily Thompson 1:15:30
do the work. Be boss, and we'll see you next week.