Podcast Like a Boss

Emily Thompson 0:00
Hello and welcome to being boss episode number 75. This episode is brought to you by fresh books, cloud accounting.

Being boss and work and life is being in it.

Kathleen Shannon 0:16
It's being who we are doing the work, breaking some rules. And even though we each

Emily Thompson 0:22
have to do it on our own, being boss is knowing we're in it together.

Kathleen Shannon 0:27
Today we are chatting with our boss boyfriend's Paul Jarvis and Jason's book all about podcasting. So obviously, being boss has been a huge part of our career trajectory. And we want to talk to Jason and Paul who also have multiple podcasts now, which we'll get into all about podcasts and how they've helped our business, how they've changed the path of our business, and how podcasting has changed the way that we all shape and share our content. One of the things that we're talking about here today in today's episode is sponsors and making money off of sponsors in your podcast episodes. And so I want to take a second to think fresh books, cloud accounting, fresh books is easy to use software designed for creative entrepreneurs who don't really want to spend all their time invoicing and billing and capturing their expenses. It's such easy to use accounting software, I could not recommend it more, and I actually use it myself. So it's really important if you're starting a podcast and you're looking for sponsors to really believe in them. So thanks again. freshbooks. We love you guys. And we know that our listeners Love you too because so many of them are using your software now too. If you guys want to try fresh books, go to freshbooks comm slash being boss and enter being boss in the How did you hear about a section? You can try it for free for 30 days. All right back to our episode. So welcome, Jason. Welcome, Paul.

Paul Jarvis 1:57
Yeah, well, hello, hello.

Kathleen Shannon 2:00
Okay, so for our guests who are not familiar with our boss boyfriends, can you guys give a quick introduction to who you are and what you do?

Jason Zook 2:09
Oh, Paul, I'm going to introduce you, you introduce me.

Paul Jarvis 2:11
Alright. Alright. Paul

Jason Zook 2:12
Jarvis is a vegan living somewhere in Canada, destination unknown, covered in tattoos. He's a writer of multiple best selling books. I can say that about him because it doesn't make him sound douchey. Because if he says it does. I've recently actually convinced him to move away from client business and he does product stuff. He's the creator of the creative class, which has been sold a million times. Now, Paul, easily, easily a million times. And Paul previously invented the internet.

Paul Jarvis 2:40
Oh, wow.

Kathleen Shannon 2:42
We mentioned rats that Paul has rat. Oh,

Jason Zook 2:45
sorry. Paul has multiple rats is a lover of animals and gardens often.

Kathleen Shannon 2:50
And he's building a greenhouse right now. That's his biggest project.

Paul Jarvis 2:53
I am I was actually building that today before this call. So Jason, what can I say about my internet boy, as he's my internet boyfriend, too. This is awkward. It's like a lesson where

Kathleen Shannon 3:06
it's just an orgy. What's happening?

Paul Jarvis 3:09
Alright, so Jason basically invented sponsorships. He invented wearing t shirts. He made a million dollars wearing other people's t shirts. He's written one book, I think one book, one book, you're actually in the process of writing another one? Yes. I know this. And I don't know how much you can say but that you have done quite a few courses. You host the Action Army, which is a podcast and a newsletter. And most recently, you started building software with me and a guy named Zach. Yeah.

Kathleen Shannon 3:42
Okay, so Paul and Jason, both have the podcast invisible office hours, which is so good. Everyone needs to listen to it. I almost feel like it's the boy counterpart to being boss. Even though all of our podcasts are open to all genders, it's fine. So today, I wanted to get into talking about podcasts. And one of the reasons why is because the four of us are collaborating on projects together now talking all about. Yeah, we'll share more about that later. But now we're gonna share everything we know here on this episode. Keep it all away.

Paul Jarvis 4:22
That's a tall order. I like

Kathleen Shannon 4:24
how long is this gonna be gonna be like, four hours? No one. If you want the full the full four hours, you'll have to buy our program. So you guys, I'm curious. Jason Paul was your first podcast invisible office hours? Yeah. And then why did you start that? Like Tell me the story about how invisible office hours can be.

Paul Jarvis 4:49
I think Jason asked me if I wanted to host a podcast

Jason Zook 4:52
with him. We Yeah, we were so Paul and I we met on Skype and it was romantic. So we You know, initially when we started talking about Skype, which I know was over two years ago now, we would just have conversations about our businesses and like the way we thought about things, and probably after like the 20th Skype call there.

Kathleen Shannon 5:15
Y'all can see is right now we're all on Google Hangouts. And Jason saying really nice things about Paul. And like these little hearts floating on the side.

Jason Zook 5:26
That was amazing. I saw Emily laughing, I was like, what's going on? And then I saw anyway, so Paul, and I were having sweet loving conversations, but about business stuff and about life stuff. And I don't know, I think we just started getting into long conversations about like one topic. And, and I think at one point, I was just like, we should record these and share them and see if anybody else would give a shit to listen to them. I don't know if they would, but I just I find it interesting. Like, I look forward to us getting on Skype and ranting about things. Other people might be interested. And I think like Paul was super busy with client work at the time. And I was doing something weird selling something weird as I normally do. And we were just like, let's do it. Let's keep it super simple. We're not going to have like all the bells and whistles of every podcast, we're going to try and compete with anybody else. Just record our conversation. That's it and put that onto the internet in a podcast. And that was really where invisible office hours kind of came from.

Paul Jarvis 6:19
Yeah, we decided not to have guests ever.

Jason Zook 6:22
Yeah, we didn't we have one guest spot that's waiting.

Unknown Speaker 6:27
For us,

Jason Zook 6:28
it will always be available. Unfortunately, it's not Paul, who's

Paul Jarvis 6:31
actually technically they are going to be a guest if we're airing something with them.

Jason Zook 6:37
So yes, you guys and who's our only other guests will ever have Paul,

Paul Jarvis 6:41
Tony Robbins. Just

Kathleen Shannon 6:44
Stephanie, I think

Emily Thompson 6:47
what it was either going to be Tony, or I would have guessed maybe Oprah. Like those are usually Yeah,

Paul Jarvis 6:52
I'd be she

Emily Thompson 6:54
think Oprah I guess if I had to

Jason Zook 6:57
only if she tweeted us and asked us to be on

Unknown Speaker 7:00
it. Gotcha.

Jason Zook 7:00
But if she sent an email, we'd say no. No. Yeah. So we don't we don't do guests. We don't do. We hadn't we didn't do sponsors for the first two seasons. And that's also I guess, I mean, it's different about our show is that we do 12 episode seasons. And there's no rhyme or reason to that other than just, we don't want to be doing a full time podcast, we wanted to just do it in chunks, and that we could be done and then take a break for a couple months. Because you know, there's so many podcasts out there that are daily shows. I mean, as soon there's gonna be an hourly show on podcasting. Someone's gonna do it two minutes every hour.

Kathleen Shannon 7:33
Yeah. Do you guys record your podcasts like, all 12 over the span of a couple of weeks? Except for this last typically, yes, your products in real time?

Paul Jarvis 7:45
Yeah, this last season was real time. So we couldn't do that. But all the other three seasons, Jason, I basically carved out like two or three hours every few days for about two weeks, and just bang them all out. And then we could just release them one at a time because their schedules are always really in flux. So yeah, we would record that like just hardcore focus on the podcast, record them, and then just queue them up and knock them out as as the release date because they come out every Tuesday morning.

Emily Thompson 8:16
So I love that you guys started this way, like this cute little loving relationship and having these conversations that you just want to share. Like that's how Kathleen and I got, like, started doing this to same thing. And I kind of feel like that's, that's one of the magic things about like these partnership podcasts. And I've heard lots of people talk about, like, after listening to lots of podcasts with one person versus with versus more than one person like you tend or they tend to go towards the ones that are two people because the dynamic there is so awesome. So good. Glad you guys do that. But you guys, like sharing content, is what you guys have done for a really long time. And usually in the form of writing. I know that you both do lots of writing and all kinds of places. But podcasts isn't writing, it's sharing content through speaking. So how has that? How has that shaped your content, either in terms of like the podcast, or even how it shaped some of the written content you do? Having a podcast?

Paul Jarvis 9:20
Yeah, that's a good question. And I think part of why it's different and it's more difficult for me to do audio than writing but with my writing, I still read every piece I write out loud, basically to see if I sound like a jerky mcboatface. Like I need to see if my writing sounds like me, so I read it out loud. So the podcast is basically me recording me, like talking out loud or when is with the podcast that I have with Jason. I think it's easier to because in the beginning, I don't think I could have done a solo podcast because I don't think I could have figured out how to just talk straight on on a topic but i think having a show with a guest where we can both kind of feed off of each other and you ladies do the same thing like it listen to your show all the time you you feed off of each other and you kind of know when one person's finished talking the next person can kind of pick it up and it's so much easier to do a podcast that way i have to do prep for my solo show because i there's no there's nobody if i stop talking so with jason like we don't really need to do any prep typically we decide on the topic like as soon as we get on the phone with each other like what do you want to talk about today jason i don't know paul let's pick something

Kathleen Shannon 10:37
so i definitely felt that in the first so you guys had three seasons now in his law office or do you think that moving forward it will still be like what oh sorry for so first season i could definitely feel that you guys were like off the top like let's talk about what we eat let's talk about death let's talk about just kind of stuff that friends talk about but do you feel like you're having to get a little bit more well maybe i'm not asking this as a question so much just stating like what i've experienced with me and emily is that either we feel like we're saying the same thing over and over again or we're having to start to get strategic about the content that we are sharing in order to sell products or in order to make sure that our editorial calendar as we grow this media empire like the podcast is just one component of it now that we have the blog too we just want to make sure that everything is consistent and cohesive so for you guys i know that you're constantly launching pod products so has that kind of shaped how you create an agenda for your podcast are you still doing it off the cuff

Jason Zook 11:43
yeah i mean i think looking forward to season five i've been thinking a lot about like what the thing that runs together for all of our seasons is is it's our opinions it's our thoughts it's it's our unique outlook on the things that we do so that that to me is the easy like lens that we put in visible office hours through and then it just becomes okay well what are the like topics what are the overarching things and you know we did 36 shows about a specific topic now obviously there's way more things we could talk about in the world but like you guys you know do we want to say more things about like high level topics you know like startup culture and you know another topic about money or anything else and i don't know that we do if anything we get a lot of really good feedback about the non sequiturs that we go on and the weird things that we talk about and so i almost am of the mindset of like let's make a whole season about weird stuff and maybe even play up on a little bit of like cultural things but in a complete different twist so like a good example is we were talking with somebody about something and panama papers came up and so this was like a huge thing in the news i had no idea what this was i don't i don't watch the news i don't listen to the news i no idea and then paul before like actually hearing about it on some new show he didn't know what it was either so i thought it might be funny if we took like general topics that we've all heard of but that paul and i have no knowledge of and then we could just talk about it like what what is this what could it be and then maybe by the end of the show one of us like looks it up and then gives the real answer and it could be just a really funny thing to see where we even close like do we have any idea and now i don't know if that's a good basis for an entire season of 12 episodes of a show maybe that's a segment of the show you know now that we've done the fourth season which was like a lot of different segments a lot of different things really pieced together edited together now it seems easy to do like maybe one topic one segment so i don't know i think for me it's just whatever we do is just going to continue to be our opinions and our thoughts and not trying to like be the next serial or startup or any of these things it's just it's us and that's what makes it interesting and we're happy to kind of keep it that way

Paul Jarvis 13:47
yeah and i think that there was a bit of strategy only in for season four only in so much as we needed to figure out what we needed to talk about when because we had 12 weeks and we were also building software in that 12 weeks but we weren't like we didn't even really pitch the software no we were just talking about how we make it in the first place

Jason Zook 14:06
yeah i think a lot of people told us from that that fourth season and that could be another way that our next season goes is maybe there's something else that we want to build you know maybe there's something in the fall because that's probably when the next season will happen that we want to work on together and that that becomes like okay this is now the story of building that and it's nice becomes a it becomes a built in marketing channel and for you guys it's the same thing like anything you want to talk about i mean that's why we're doing this specific episode two is we have something we want to talk about we have something that we want to build together and this becomes the most natural way for us to do it and this is our content marketing if you will you know if you were to like put us in some bucket of you know how people explain things this is a piece of content marketing that's what we all do that's what runs our businesses but i think we do it in a way that's really congruent to who we are as people and that we're also interesting and that's because we don't try and do things like everybody else and we don't follow other people's paths we just enjoy being ourselves and saying it's not gonna be perfect it's just the way we're gonna do it

Kathleen Shannon 15:03
yeah and i think that's a really good point that we're always kind of blending who we are into what we do like we're not afraid to say i don't know what the panama papers are right before we started recording this we were all talking about the weird little nuances of how we organize our desktops on our computers or how we like our creative process and when it comes to business systems but one thing that i want to mention about content marketing is that for me i accidentally stumbled into content marketing with blogging i was sharing the journey along the way of starting to freelance and have accidentally positioned myself as an expert freelancer whenever the only reason why i was writing about it is because i was just trying to figure it out and process it as i went along and so i find that podcasting has been very much a similar thing and i think that content marketing can get a bad rap now i think especially with all the listicles that are out there and there are some kind of cheesy ways of doing it i happen to follow a lot of people that are just giving away their gifts to knowledge so whether or not you ever buy from any of us you could look at any of our materials and pretty much learn how to run a business how to write how to market yourself in an authentic way all these things so i think it's interesting too that like we've all found these revenues for sharing what we do but then accidentally but maybe now not so accidentally make money off of it

Jason Zook 16:34
yeah and i think a really interesting thing there is like you bring up a good point i mean paul and i both write a weekly newsletter i don't know how often you guys put stuff out into the world but that basically boils down to two books a year in the amount of words that we write so we give away two books a year of content and they're not set up that way but you know that's kind of the way that is i don't know maybe that should be a way that i market my email list is like i'll give you two books a year and these weekly articles maybe maybe that would help conversion rates i don't know i don't give a shit about that i care about writing content that helps people and then putting my own personal twist on that and i think all four of us know and i think a lot of your listeners know because i'm also very familiar with your show i listen i love it it's it's super interesting is that you listen because of the funny things that you guys say you listen because of the strong opinions that you have not just the like i don't like the term comment marketing it's it i fucking hate the term content marketing i don't like being said that like i'm a blogger i'm not a blogger like i that that feels right but there's nothing wrong with that it's just that we've been so inundated with people who do that in like a sleazy way and then it makes us feel like oh well we're getting lumped in that same kind of bucket with people and i don't like being in buckets paul

Emily Thompson 17:43
well and i think like this brings me to this idea of like and one of the reasons why i like podcasting so much is because like kathleen and i could write the things that we'd say on this podcast and two blog posts and no one's gonna give a shit more or less i mean like some people will but i think that really the power of the power that we've tapped into in terms of podcasting is using our own voice to say the things that we want to say it almost it doesn't does it give us more credibility because i don't think that's really the word i want to say but it sure makes people relate to what we're saying so much more than if we had started had just started a blog saying the things that we are all saying like if you guys had posted a blog post about death i can't imagine what the feedback would have been like on that

Jason Zook 18:32
a lot of negative feedback

Emily Thompson 18:34
right but because you guys talked about it in a podcast and you guys are just riffing off each other and just sort of going there it was kind of like a cool topic everybody's like yes i'm glad someone's talking about this writing about it maybe not talking about it

Kathleen Shannon 18:48
it's an okay thing to do one thing that i experienced whenever it comes to writing versus podcasting at night i still really love writing i feel like i can get much more concise and i can really craft my points or my story in the way that i want to i feel a little bit like a spaz podcasting but one thing that i've loved about it is that with writing and especially blogging i was starting to get really overwhelmed by haters and i don't care anymore at all but at the time whenever we started the podcast i had just had my baby fox and he was maybe a year old i was really uncomfortable about what i could share and what i couldn't share and i feel like what podcasting has given back to me as the ability to be candid and to blend more of my personal life into the professional stuff so even if i'm not blogging about thoughts i'm more likely to talk about him here on the podcast just in passing because for someone to invest an hour of their time to like hate on me that's a big investment versus someone just reading what you're saying it's really easy to i think misunderstand and dehumanize people whenever you're reading their written word and i think that that's What I love about podcasting is, is it has brought back a little bit more humanity and personality into my business. And that's what I love personal branding is my jam. So

Paul Jarvis 20:11
and I think that's why our podcasts Excel is because we're not afraid to do things the way we want to do them and to be ourselves on our show, cuz I know a lot of people who started podcasts who were just get bored or that if it Peters out because they're like, Okay, I need to have this type of guests in the show has to be like this. And like, I can hear them read, like, I've been on a lot of shows like that, like, I can hear them reading questions. And it's like, if it's not fun, do something different. Like, Jason and I have a show that has 12 episodes a season random number, we don't have any guests. It's the two of us talking for 60 minutes. We're rare. We rarely edit it in terms of cuts, unless there's like an audio problem, my doorbell and it's like, Yeah, exactly. If somebody steals your Fitbit from your front door. Things happen. But I think that it's finding what works for you like being strategic about it. sure if that's if you want to eventually monetize it, or something like that. But it's figuring out how it works for you even like Jason, I have solo shows. And it's just for me, it's just me talking Jason intersperses other people's stories and other audio as well. But it's like, you can run your podcast however you want as your podcast, like iTunes, lets you put up anything, pretty much.

Kathleen Shannon 21:28
So one thing that I admire about you guys, and why I like hanging out with you so much is that you're constantly creating new products and putting out content. And I'm just so curious about that. Because I feel like I've been brought up in a way that it's all about niching in and narrowing in on your expertise and really staying focused. So I'm curious for you guys how I mean? Okay, the question is like, How do you stay focused with what it is that you want? Are you just following what feels good? And you're like, that would be fun to make. And specifically to get more specific with this question. What made you decide to do solo podcasts? And how does that either supplement your business that you're doing outside of invisible office hours? Because you guys collaborate on so many projects? Like, I'm just curious, what is the what is the map of that look like?

Paul Jarvis 22:21
I wish there was.

Jason Zook 22:25
But I have a map. So that's where we're different. That's what's fun. So like I said, your map, yeah, I started, I made my own, I wrote my own map. Like, I started my own solo podcast called the Action Army. Because for one specific reason, I was writing articles. And those articles after a couple of weeks, they go, they're gone. Like they live in like the the ether of my website. And very rarely do people find them unless for some reason, they get picked up by organic search for who knows why there's no real reason why you can figure that out. And then other people find them. And yet, I'm spending all this time and money, I have a full time editor Paul as a full time editor who helps me write this stuff. And yet it doesn't get the legs that I think it deserves. Because I really believe in what I'm writing, I believe in the messages I'm putting out. And so my my map for my podcast was, I want to take topics I've talked about previously, I don't want to give them another chance to live where people have not heard them. And this goes back to your one of your original questions, Kathleen, there's so much emotion and tone that you can't put into writing. Like, I can say something right now, like I can say, I love my baby Fox, like I love him to death. But if you just write that no amount of exclamation points will make someone feel and have like the chills and like the emotion that you have. And so I wanted to take some of these things that I've written, and especially some of them that really had some strong opinions. You know, like, I really believe that entrepreneurship gets just this like gloss over like anybody can do a blah, blah, known anybody can't do it. And it takes a lot of sacrifice. And it takes a lot of hard work. And it takes a lot of things that people aren't willing to share because it doesn't get good headlines. And if I say that with my voice, and with my tone, it resonates. And then people go oh shit like this, Okay, I get it. I'm not just reading a line in a thing. And then what are the other seven steps to becoming an entrepreneur, you know. And so my map is basically this, this show grows my audience, hopefully, it also gives extra life to content that I've written before that I really believe in that I just wish had another chance to get more your balls, I guess, as you would call them on a podcast. And it I think it also podcasting to me, and I've just seen this with him as a blob sours. It brings about unintended opportunities that you never saw coming, because you don't know who's listening. And it's a whole new ecosystem of content sharing that anybody can find it and anybody can stumble across it and you just don't know the unintended consequences that could come of putting your word out there. So sorry, I rambled on a long time, but that's my map.

Kathleen Shannon 24:52
I loved it a man. What about you, Paul,

Jason Zook 24:55
you do have a map. You know it,

Paul Jarvis 24:57
I guess I guess my unintentional map is similar. report a lot of my a lot of the freelancer is articles that i've written that i just want to share a bit more about and it also like i get paid to repurpose content i've already written that i'm just riffing off of and then i get paid by my sponsors to basically put that into podcast forum and i find as well that my articles lend themselves to little bikes my shows only like 510 minutes so it lends itself to those little chunks like i'll read just a little bit of it and give a bit more and i find too that there's a lot of people that and at first i was like fuck people are going to think i'm such a hack for like reading my articles or sharing the same thing that i shared with my mailing list a few weeks later with my podcast zero people have complained everybody says that they like the fact that they get a slightly different take on it a little bit later once it's stewed in their own brains a little bit so yeah a lot of its repurposing for me and i get paid to do it by my sponsors and that my audience even though it's slightly duplicated still still really enjoys it

Kathleen Shannon 26:03
oh well i was just gonna say that one thing that i love about podcasts one thing that i love about consuming podcasts and that's probably why i even agreed to do a podcast with emily as because i was starting to listen to them and i think that you should really engage with platforms that you are liking that you'd like to be a consumer of so i found myself going from really reading blogs to moving to my inbox to then digesting podcasts and one thing that i love about it is i can listen to it in my car i can listen to it while i'm on a walk so even with the breed method equals for example i found that a lot of people are having a hard time making their way through it and i don't know if you guys have found this with your courses so i'm thinking how are ways i can help people guide people through this and this applies to any content and i thought well i could just record by audio what i've already said and it would be just another way of learning so there are people who are audio learners that are people who are like they have to actually experience it to learn it and then there are people that like reading and i think that giving people all of those different opportunities to digest your content is not a bad thing

Paul Jarvis 27:16
that's part of why creative class has done so well is because there's different versions and they're each once you have the one version it's easy to make the additional versions like for creative class i stripped the audio out of the videos it took two seconds and quick time i just save as audio only and then i had audio lessons for every single lesson

Emily Thompson 27:38
yeah i think i think that's one of the really powerful pieces of podcasting that i like i feel like we accidentally fell into it's a conversation i've had a whole lot a whole lot recently where people who especially i've spent you know the past 510 15 years like doing online business things and sitting in front of a computer are really kind of tired of sitting in front of their computer and they don't want to read blogs anymore and they don't even want to read books on their e reader like they want to get back to real life and i think that's one of the things that we've tapped into with podcasting that i never anticipated is we're capturing the audience who is not sitting in front of their computer consuming content or capturing the audience that is you know riding in their car to work or taking walks or working out and like being able to get in people's ear balls at those times i think is has been a really powerful accident that we've stumbled into in terms of podcasting because i think i think that there is a little bit of a movement of people getting out from in front of their computer screens and back into the real world so if we can like continue to share content and grow our brands and support people and whatever way they need support away from their computer screen

Kathleen Shannon 28:55
than high fat i think it also brings us back to consuming content in a long form way right so and i think it helps loyal fans whenever we're creating content that they have to listen to for 20 minutes 30 minutes for us it's an hour and i think that that's something really special and i think that you end up creating almost what feels like a relationship with your listener whereas reading and especially as the years have passed i'm finding that my attention span whenever i'm on the internet is getting shorter and shorter and shorter so that's another thing that i think is great about podcasting is you really feel like you get to know who you're listening to and even for us as people who are podcasting and i don't know if you guys feel this way but we have a raving community of bosses we're going on vacation with us they're in a facebook group they're having conversations with us and i think that that's a really special thing that we're getting from podcasting that i don't know that i ever got from a blog

Paul Jarvis 29:55
our audience is actually talking to your audience too i've seen picture i saw pictures from being Last Miami of invisible office hours listeners together, which I thought was just the coolest thing ever. But I think you brought up a good point where like, I'm not gonna sit down and read one thing for an hour, like very rare maybe before bed if I'm reading a book, but people easily consumed 60 minutes of audio, like it takes me 60 minutes to drive anywhere from where I live. And people, people don't have like, it's it's an easier way to consume. And I think even for the last season that Jason I did have invisible office hours, like, we basically we weren't really hard pitching or selling anything. But people listen to 12 hours of us talking about, of course books. And then when we launched the product, we sold out, we almost sold out of all the founding memberships where people bought our product, before they could even see it, they bought lifetime access. And then a few days ago, we released 50 more spots, which are down to I think we sold 40 of the spots in the like, half a day. So and these are all people like Jason and I haven't promoted this to our mailing list. We haven't promoted this on social or anything. This is just really the podcast and and its own site. So we wanted to see how well it would do just from that. And it's, it's, it's done really well so far.

Emily Thompson 31:17
Yeah, we get tons of feedback from people who talk like listeners like especially like our some of our biggest fans who have said that they felt like they're just sitting in a coffee shop with us just listening to us gab on about whatever it is we're gabbing on about, and that they feel like they're part of the conversation like that is a relationship that blog readers very rarely feel with the bloggers, whom they're reading. So I think that I think again, that's what a powerful piece of like hearing someone's voice speak the words they're wanting to share creates sort of this, this attachment that that you can't get through most other forms of, of content sharing. And then like just being able to like make them your biggest fan so that they like buy into whatever it is that you're creating. If it's something that's for them. I think like that is the power of like the business of podcasting right there. Hi bosses. Running a business online comes with some pretty cool perks, meeting up with cool folks all over the country, working from a laptop Wherever I am, and sharing content by just chatting with some bowels. We all really are busting our asses about we're building lives and businesses that we love. Apart from location independence and the connections that I get to make with creatives everywhere. My favorite thing about running a business online is the tools that are at my disposal to make it easy for me to work smarter, not harder for me and Kathleen both in our own businesses or together at being boss. One of those tools is acuity scheduling. acuity offers scheduling software that automates the hubbub of scheduling meetings with potential clients, new clients or even friends new acquaintances. We use it to book client kickoff calls, coaching calls, podcast guests and more. It saves my team and I hours every week, when someone wants a meeting, we just send them a link and they schedule themselves up based on the availability of our calendars. Easy as pie. Book LIKE A BOSS work like a champion, schedule clients without sacrificing your soul. Sign up for a free 60 day trial of scheduling sanity at acuity scheduling.com slash being boss. Now, let's get back at it.

Kathleen Shannon 33:34
I'm curious how podcasting has affected your guys's business? Are you seeing more money or more opportunities to create new products? Tell us what's going on there.

Jason Zook 33:44
Yeah, I mean, if we if we now add in, of course books sales to our podcast, overall, like just just I would say just invisible office hours. So not even talking about Action Army for me or Freelancer for Paul. We are we've just now crossed over making $100,000 with the podcast alone. So that's that's across the first season, we did nothing. So we just made a podcast didn't promote a thing, put it out into the internet. The second season, we promoted what was called a bundle of awesome where Paul and I said hey, we have a lot of products people listen to because of us and the things that we make and talk about, let's bundle them together. And we sold that for the 12 week period at a bump sale pricing, which is the $1 $2 $3 incremental pricing. And that did really well. We wrote a post on that afterwards. And it was basically like 43,000 bucks that we made in 12 weeks, which is cool. And that was repurposing again, Paul talked about repackaging content, you know, we repackaged products as well. And so you know, the third season we did this, like we did some private episodes. I think we did six episodes eight episodes can remember how dare you Yeah, yeah. And then we did the How dare you, which was a course basically that you would get about personal branding and you could buy that throughout the season. And then the fourth season we had a sponsor, first sponsor we had on the show acuity scheduling, who you guys work with as well and of course books and so 100,000 bucks, has landed pretty much in our laps from initially from Skype conversations where we just kind of joked around and then said, Well, we should make a podcast out of this. So the opportunity is there. And the one thing that I think everybody was just saying a second ago, is accessibility. Like podcasts are so accessible. Now you can get it on your phone, you can get on your iPad, you can get in your car you can get on your computer, you can get it, you know, streaming through devices on TVs now, it was never like that before. So like, to me the way that I look at podcasting. And we can definitely jump into some more of the like the money stuff, but is that it's it's everywhere. It's just as accessible now as anything else. And so it's the new blog. And I think that there is an opportunity now for anybody to get a microphone or just use your Apple headphones, record on QuickTime and your computer or whatever you want, and upload. And that's it. That's as easy as it is to start a podcast and start making money. And that's all that we do. There's nothing secret, there's no, okay, guys, everyone Be quiet, we got to tell them the secret, you know, the secret tunnel that you go through to make money. It doesn't exist. Unfortunately, if we knew where that was, we probably won't tell you anyway. But it's super accessible both on the listenership and on the like making these things exist. Yeah, we've

Paul Jarvis 36:08
had four seasons and four different revenue streams, basically. So there's not one, there's not one way to make money on podcasting. There's basically however, whatever idea you can think of that could potentially work. You could do like we repurpose content, we saw the course we had a sponsor, like, we've done so many different things next year, we'll probably do something totally different as well, just because we can because things it doesn't have to just be If This Then That. Like if your show does well, you have to have a sponsor and charge this much CPM. It's like it doesn't, it doesn't have to work like that. And it's also it's fun to just do it the same way that like industries, industry standards are boring.

Kathleen Shannon 36:48
And you know, it's funny whenever it comes to sponsors, and I do want to talk a little bit more about making money, but I don't think any of us so we all have sponsors now on our shows. And I don't think that any of us bill our sponsors in a traditional way, because I'm pretty sure we're all making more than the standard CPM. Because we convert because our listeners are super loyal. Our messages are super targeted. Okay, but first, I'm gonna talk a little bit about how podcasting has affected my business. Go Okay, well, okay, so Emily and I started being boss with no intention of necessarily making money, we just wanted to have a place to share more content, and really, maybe expand our personal brands in a way that people haven't experienced yet. And what I found is that it was definitely helping our one on one work, as far as breed creative, we were getting a lot of braid method clients out of it, and we still do. And maybe if it's not even direct, like a lot of our braid method, clients have gone on to listen to the podcast, which I just think, in some ways, helps solidify the brand experience in general, like, they don't feel like we did this service for them. And then we're like Seiya, they can still listen to the podcast and feel like they're maintaining that relationship with us. And so lots of one on one work. But then also, as far as digital products go, I have definitely increased my sales on the braid method, branding ecourse, which has been huge, and then even talking to you guys, you guys are always super generous with your knowledge and advice on how to really hone in or expand or tweak that product to make it more efficient or more sellable. And then Emily and I had no idea that we would be landing sponsors that would be so generous and so supportive. And that alone accidentally we ended up accidentally creating a legit business out of being boss. So I think that that was a really unexpected effect of having a podcast on our business. What about you, Emily? What have you What about you and your business and being boss?

Emily Thompson 38:58
Yeah, same I mean, in Detroit biography started getting clients who are coming to us like fans like already knew enough about me that they wanted to work with me but also us too. So we had people coming to us for our indie boom offering wanting to work with braid and indie for like a combined braid indie indie boom to like get branding and websites done so we definitely were converting listeners to like one on one clients which is really great. But then like landing sponsors and also just creating relationships with other brands, so you know, we've picked up a couple of like affiliate relationships along the way that have been really great so brands that we use and who support us and who we can do like some like joint marketing and things to benefit both of us this has been really powerful for us. And then we Yeah, digital products, so we decided to bundle up our like email courses together like Kathleen and I both had one we decided to bundle that up and sell it as like a joint being boss product.

Kathleen Shannon 39:58
Vacation Day events. So that's kind of Yeah, for us that hasn't. It's not only made us a little bit of money in the grand scheme of things not as much as things like a digital product or one on one services might do. But what it has done, I think, is help us understand the direction and impact of our brand. So one of the things that we so we accidentally stumbled upon, I think, being boss as this thing, and but this next year, we're wanting to really grow it intentionally but with the same spirit that it was creative vendor, so I'm really excited to see where it goes. And we have things in the future, like a lot more digital products, a book collaborations with guys like you. And things like that have been so unexpected and so delightful, almost. Life was never what I use, but it feels like

Emily Thompson 40:49
it fits, I guess. Yeah, I mean, I've I've been really surprised. I mean, we again, we both went into this, like, obviously, we're entrepreneurs who were like good at monetizing. So we're like, yes, we're gonna make money on this. I don't know what that looks like yet, but we're just gonna do it and see what happens. So we started recording and like, we've kind of tapped into multiple revenue streams, just within like less than a year and a half now have tapped into I mean, easily six, I'd say different revenue streams for for making money on like, on sharing content, but also fostering a community, which I think is, is such a goal of the online entrepreneur, like you are in this space, where you have access to anyone and everyone in the world, basically. And you want to find your people and foster a community like building a community is such a big goal of most of the people that I know, you know, that listen to this podcast. And I have been blown away by the sense of community that you can create by sharing content in this way and then giving them an avenue to do it. The clubhouse like that's another like, revenue stream that we've created, which is really about like fostering the community of like diehard being boss listeners who wanted to, like, hang out together and hear more from us. So yeah, I think podcasting consistently blows me away that we've like, stumbled into this, like that little email, I wrote you that one day that like podcasting is gonna make us famous, you have to do this with me, what have turned like the idea that it would have turned into something like this just blows my mind on an ongoing basis. And I also like, you know, look at my Instagram account, or like our Twitter accounts, or like the being boss Instagram account that we just opened. And those sorts of things and seeing like the social traction that we're able to, to gain by just like speaking and publishing. It's just, it is delightful. I'll go

Kathleen Shannon 42:48
with So the whole point of this, though, is that you can make money and a lot of different ways podcasting, and it doesn't have to look like any certain formula. I know that whenever I was blogging, I always felt so embarrassed and then spiteful of advertisers and sponsors. So then going into that in the podcasting world, I know what your guys's experiences with this having just taken on advertisers. And it's so much more genuine than I thought it was going to be or not as icky as I imagined it being. So there are lots of different ways to make money. You don't have to just have sponsors, it could be that you're trying to sell a product or a one on one service. And same goes for you guys. We talked about newsletters, I feel like we've talked about newsletters, oh yeah, whenever we were helping you, Paul with chimpanzee angels. And we did that webinar together talking about how you don't have to have a huge list or a huge audience to make an impact and make a difference. So I'd like to talk a little bit about that. Because I feel like being boss kind of exploded, because we managed to get into new and noteworthy. And then we managed to get into the top charts on iTunes. And we kind of have just been hanging out there ever since it seems to kind of feed on itself getting in the top charts. But what if you're not in the top charts? And so you guys, I'm not sure like where your rankings are or what your listener numbers are like, but like how does, and I don't think that you have a small audience. But how do you think that having a smaller audience can actually benefit a podcaster?

Jason Zook 44:19
Yeah, I mean, so I'll rattle off the numbers for invisible office hours, because I know those pretty well. And then I'll rattle off my numbers for Action Army. And then Paul read off his and you'll see that like the huge difference between the three, I think. So let's start with action arm because it's the smallest one of the three, which is my personal podcast that goes out every Thursday. It's new. It's only been around since the end of January. So three months now. And I think that the one thing that you brought up multiple times is you're like, Oh, it's blown up. It's blown up. Yes, being boss has blown up. But consistency is like compounding interest and the more that you put in and the more episodes you do because this is 75 correct. Imagine we're going to be with another 75 and it's you put value but good things out. Anyway, that's a side note. But, you know, so the extra army average is about 500, listens or downloads, whatever the number is that you're supposed to care about the day of the episode, and then by the next week, it gets to around 1000 to 1500. So that's just the average. I don't have a separate mailing list, I basically trying to funnel people to my main list the Action Army, through that podcast, that is my number one goal. If I have sponsors, that's great. I'm going to actually like try and not do sponsors for a month and do affiliate stuff of things that I really like. So that'll be fun and ConvertKit, which you guys know, and I've talked about with Nathan. So it's a it's a great company, it's company we all use in love. So that's, that's Action Army invisible office hours, the email list, after 48 episodes, it will actually about 52 episodes now with little bonus codes and whatnot. 900 some odd people. So I'm not a whopping size list, I'll remind you, we've made $100,000 from invisible office hours with a 900 person email list. That show gets about 1000 listens every Tuesday when the episode comes out, and will trend to about 3000 after a couple of weeks. So again, like these are not numbers that you hear like, I can't obtain those. Those are insane. a 900 person email list getting you know, 500 listens on an episode. I think that's attainable for anybody. And you know, it goes through. I don't know where my show is in the rankings on iTunes. I've never known. I knew when it was in new and noteworthy because that's something you can easily look and see. But now I I mean, otherwise, I could scroll through I guess I'm looking like, Where's my logo? Where's my logo? Where's my logo up? there? It is. Okay. Was I mean? I don't know. So. But Paul, yeah, I know, your numbers have grown pretty substantially for freelancer, and you haven't done anything special?

Paul Jarvis 46:39
No, I don't even promote a show in any way. I think I mentioned it in my Sunday dispatches newsletter the last few weeks, because I'm not promoting anything else. But yeah, that show is just about it. 300,000 downloads and listens, and it gets probably consistently at least 5000 downloads per episode. And then a bunch more listens in that. But I don't I haven't even looked. I'm in Canadian iTunes. So it's like a gift.

Jason Zook 47:07
Maybe that's a secret. Everyone should start their show in the Canadian iTunes. And then it just takes off in the American iTunes

Paul Jarvis 47:16
is that people are always asking me like, oh, wait my show on it and review my show on iTunes. I'm like, I will. But it'll be in Canada, and it's not gonna matter me review, because I will be. I am the only reviewer for all of my friends shows in Canada, other than I've been being bossed you, ladies have quite a few reviews on Canadian iTunes. But other than that, like there's there's not really much. Yeah, and I don't, I guess I don't even care about the numbers. Like even when I'm pitching sponsors, like I'm not pitching the numbers. I'm pitching like the sphere of influence that I have, because they reach an audience, that people like, for example, freshbooks, like they target people who work for themselves, but don't want to spend their lives working on accounting software. Guess what, that's my that is exactly the only people that listen to my show. But those exact people, so it's easier to pitch based on the value of the show and the value of the audience to various. So it's easier to pitch. But it's a smaller pool of, of sponsors that you can pull from but that's okay. Because those sponsors really, really want the the audience that you reach and it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be massive numbers to work and

Kathleen Shannon 48:26
growing. Your podcast is just like growing Anything else? We recently reached? A million.

Unknown Speaker 48:34
Yeah, awesome. But

Kathleen Shannon 48:36
our numbers aren't far off. Paul from yours, would you say only?

Emily Thompson 48:42
Right? So we get? Let's see, looks about 24 hours after download about a little less than 4000 downloads. Let's see we have about 22,000 downloads every week. Actually, more than that. That's just that's that's 20,000 total, not per episode, I

Kathleen Shannon 49:02
think per episode, right? Yes, eight and 10,000 downloads per episode. Yeah. So one thing that I just want to mention, though, is that it's not necessarily about the metrics and all the numbers because even that, for us, it might sound like a lot and a million downloads might sound like a lot and it sure is. But there are people that have double that triple that, quadruple that. So again, just like anything else, it's important to not get like hung up in the metrics game because everything that we do, I think is about building connections and building meaningful relationships and helping people do what they do best. us doing what we do best. It's just about being a creative, right. So one thing that we found has really helped our growth is creating that community and that community is allowing them to talk to each other. So I was gonna actually, I was in a client meeting this morning, which is funny because I'm not doing as much client work as I used to be doing. And I was in a client meeting this morning, and one thing that they said they're in an organization is that you can, what do they say? Everyone can see each other, but not everyone is being seen by each other. Normally, we should edit that out, because I got it all wrong, I wrote it down. But, um, that's kind of how I feel about being boss is that our tribe and our creative Wolfpack, they're starting to form relationships with each other, even if we're not hands on with all of them, even if they're not all showing up to the vacations, they're having meetups in their own cities. And talking about the podcast, they're sharing it with their friends. And that has been huge.

Paul Jarvis 50:44
Yeah, that's the same with creative class is the main slack group are freelancers hiring each other. And I have nothing to do, I don't want to be involved in that. I just want to see them like rocket with each other. Because they're hot. Like writers are hiring developers and developers are hiring designers. I'm just like, this is the coolest, unintended outcome I could have ever imagined.

Emily Thompson 51:07
We're like creating little mini economies, like within our communities, which I think like that is one of the things that I've I've been most pleased with as well with like the creation of our communities like in being bossed Miami. We had people there who had met at being Boston, New Orleans in October, and like, had met each other there. And then in Miami, we're meeting I begin to talk collaborations and hiring each other and had talked about how like, they had already worked with each other and like, so literally creating these many communities, these many, like economies within the community that we're creating is like, that's legit shit.

Kathleen Shannon 51:47
That is so funny to think that, okay, however much money we've created for ourselves, how much money have we helped generate for our listeners? That's really fun. Yeah,

Emily Thompson 51:58
it's crazy. And and another thing I want to go back to like sponsors for half a second to in terms of like, you know, we just shared like a bunch of our numbers. And like, we've all sort of created these relationships with other brands. The thing that I think that has been most exciting for me during the course of this, like almost a year and a half of doing this podcasting thing is that this is such a new realm of like, sponsoring community growth, like engaging customers and sharing this content that that like those of us who are getting into it now, like get to help define it, like for ourselves, but also open the doors for everyone else to come in and do it as well. So I think like, even with fresh books, like the first couple of phone calls were like, you know, how do we do this? Like, what are you doing and other people? And they're like, Well, here's kind of what we're doing. But what do you guys have in mind? Like? It's all very open conversations, I think to get in on a platform like that, where everything is not so hard to find that you get no say and what your relationships look like, being able to get in before that's a thing. And hopefully, it'll never become a thing with podcasting, I think is pretty amazing.

Jason Zook 53:05
Yeah. And I think the other like, sponsorships are just such a small fraction of how you can make money. And I think we all said that, right? There's so many different ways that you can make money. And to me, that's what's so interesting about podcasting. Because, like a blog, there's only so much space, you can carve out on a blog to do interesting things. And you can get as creative as you want. And I've tried to do some really weird things over the years to make money. But podcasting is one of those where because it's your voice. And because you control the message, it can be anything, and you can try anything, and you can come up with stuff. And now it just makes me think for invisible officers like Paul, I want to try something super weird for the fifth season a way to make money. Like I just want to do something that's so different, because we can't like why go for another sponsor? Why build another software product? Why do that? Why not try and do something that's just so different? Because you absolutely have the ability to do it. And you can learn real time, as you see it go? Like what's going on? You know, what's really working? What are people responding to? What What am I seeing people take action with? And I think that's the cool thing for you guys, is that you see all these people doing these things? And that's kind of your metric that we all care about. What are people doing that we can actually see that we actually are happy with? That's what matters, not how many downloads we get not how many subscribers not how many, you know, all that stuff, a million downloads, that's the number to celebrate, you know, in this vlog, I couldn't tell you our total number of downloads because it doesn't, it's not exciting, you know, I don't know, whatever it is, doesn't matter. But like getting to those milestones. That to me is just the proof of like, we're doing something that works and that matters. Let's keep doing it. And then how do we feel good about doing that? And I think for anybody listening to this, like to me that's that's such a big takeaway for my own, like personal podcast, too, is am I giving value to the people that are listening? Am I making their lives better in some way? You know, the Kathy, Sierra's book badass making users awesome is when I talk about so often, because how are you making your users or customers or listeners, how are you improving something in their life so they can be better or make more money or whatever, and then you get the opportunity to make money while doing that. That's pretty awesome.

Paul Jarvis 54:59
I think that's Better metric to kind of have in mind too, because I think if you start a podcast because you want to make 100 grand, it's a slog, like it would be a slog. And also, I think our intentions kind of bleed through whether we want them to or not. So I don't know how many listeners you would get if you're just in it for the money or just in it for the metrics. Whereas if you want to do it, because you think you have something to say, and guess what you have something to say, then it becomes a lot, the process becomes a lot more enjoyable, because the outcome, if you're happy with the process, and the outcome doesn't matter as much like your if the process if you think that okay, I want to just give value to the to the anybody who's gonna listen to me, then when you're recording it, when you're in the process, you're doing that. So you basically win as you go, as opposed to, I want to start a podcast because I want to make six figures a year, like, well, you're not going to make six figures a year right out of the gate for one and two, like it's, it's takes a lot of work. And it takes a lot of kids like the like the ladies like it takes so much consistently, consistency, like you are on your seven mid 17th episode. Like that's a lot. That's a lot of episodes. And that's a lot of consistently.

Kathleen Shannon 56:14
Remember back on our New Year's episode never is feeling so bad not writing the newsletter every week. And Paul, you were like, but you're podcasting every week. Exactly. Alright, so before we wrap it up, I just want to talk a little bit about the best way to get into podcasting. So for our listeners, who are really interested in making this happen for themselves, that are wanting to start a podcast, what is everyone's best advice, or maybe, you know, one tip that you would give them.

Jason Zook 56:45
I mean, I think it's the least barrier to entry to get started. And just to start with something that you feel extremely passionate about. And whatever that is, don't try and do it like cereal, don't try and do it like any podcast that you listen to do it in a way that you can do it and you can get it done. And you can do it consistently. Because the last thing you want is or the last thing that you want is so many steps that you feel overwhelmed, and then you don't even start and that's where so many people get stuck in all frames of business. Instead, it's just get a simple microphone, like the road lav smart lav microphone, it's like 80 bucks on Amazon, it clips onto your lapel, you plug it into your computer record through quick time, and just record and then upload that Thai tunes or SoundCloud or wherever you want to upload. And then that's it and make sure it's something that you can do consistently that you don't need a lot of other people's help with. And then let the show grow. From there, you know, let the show become segmented and have a lot of different features or call outs or editing or, you know, production. let that happen. Don't try and do that all in the beginning. But make sure that you're putting something out there that people actually want to listen to, and that is bringing value.

Paul Jarvis 57:47
I start Yeah, pretty much the same. Like I basically wanted to for my own podcast, the freelancer the lowest barrier to entry. So I was like, I'm just gonna see if I can talk for five minutes on the topic, go in a quick time, which is free, record it and then upload that, at that format actually stuck for almost a year now. Like I haven't actually changed anything about that. But I was like, Okay, let's just see if I can record four episodes of me talking for five minutes. That's 20 minutes out of my day to try a solo podcast, and it's stuck. And I've been consistent with it ever since. So I think Yeah, lowest barrier like you can get a fancy mic. And if your show was doing well, I definitely suggest getting a fancier mic or a good mic like the Rode podcaster because our first few episodes is harder to listen to for me because the quality isn't there. But that that it doesn't stop people from listening to it. And you can always invest in your business as your business is growing in revenue anyways, you don't need to invest all this money up front, you can use your iPhone headphones, and quick time. Your you don't have to spend $1 on podcasting.

Emily Thompson 58:55
Agreed. So I think I think mine is Yeah, just recording and publishing but also keeping an open mind in terms of what you want it to do for your business. I think I think that we can get a little convoluted with this idea of like, yeah, I want to go into this and make $100,000 or I want to go into this and like grow a million people on my Instagram. Or you can just go into it and see how adding this this extra content is added value to the realm of like content sharing what that can do for your business. I think, if any of us, um, well, I know Kathleen and I went into this was in pretty hard goals on multiple levels of what this would look like and we blew them all out of the water and then hit goals we didn't even know we had. And I think going into something as new as the platform of podcasting was sort of an open mind as to what it could do for your brand or your business or whatever it is that you're wanting to create. Going into that with that open mind really opens you up to sincerely the unlimited possibilities you have for for doing a cool thing with the podcast and

Kathleen Shannon 59:57
I would add on for you Emily, kind of what I heard you say There is to have an open mind, but to also set some goals about why you're doing this and how you want it to impact your business or brand. I think that I'm going to go a little bit of a different direction and say that I think that before you start a podcast, it's really important to understand your point of view, and to practice sharing that. So I think that a really great way to start practicing podcasting is by hopping on Periscope, and practice talking into a camera even though podcasts aren't video typically, but and Periscope is but practice getting on camera and talking, you're going to feel like as FAS you're going to have vulnerability hangovers. You're not going to say everything perfectly. And that's okay. But what you are going to be doing is honing in on your point of view and sharing it. I think another really great way to get started with podcasting is to be a guest on other podcasts. So that's actually how I started is I started getting so many interviews on a few other podcasts, the podcasters were telling me that their listeners were responding really well to those episodes. So it made me feel like hey, maybe there's something here. If I had not done that first and Emily had pitched to me starting a podcast and I was completely unfamiliar with it, I probably would have said, No. So I think that that's another thing. Obviously, people right now are listening to a podcast, so they're familiar with podcasts. But I would say listen to a bunch of different podcasts and start thinking about the different kinds of formats. I know that we're all about doing your own thing, but I do you think that there is there's something valuable in having some models that you can look at, and really decide what would work best for you. Alright, you guys, so guess what, me, Emily, Paul and Jason have decided to join forces on June 22, to offer a masterclass on podcasting for your business. So we've decided to join forces to bring you the best, most actionable and no bullshit podcasting masterclass for business owners. The four of us together have had four successful podcast, we've generated over $350,000 in revenue, and we've had over 1.5 million episode downloads. So we maybe know a thing or two about podcasting, and we want to teach you how to do it too. We have invested the time and money to figure out what works and what doesn't. And we want to bring you the best three hours you'll ever spend learning about podcasting. And since it's the four of us, we hope it's a little bit fun to our goal is to make sure that you come out of this masterclass with a plan to go from podcast idea to publish show that will help your business. We're going to be talking about branding and positioning your podcasts. We're going to be talking about creating content, check, audio systems, automation, launching and marketing your podcast, growing and building fans and then finally monetizing and maybe even having sponsors. This masterclass is not about teaching you a few well worn tips for podcasting. It's about helping guide you through launching a podcast that helps and drives your business forward. We've built some really amazing communities and we've made some good money from our podcasts. But most importantly, we figured out how to create podcasts that are unique to our own personalities, styles and brands. Alright, if you're interested in joining us for this online masterclass on June 22, just go to podcasts LIKE A BOSS calm, learn more and sign up there. Again, it's podcasts LIKE A BOSS calm. We hope to see you there. Thank you for listening to being boss. Please be sure to visit our website at being boss club where you can find Show Notes for this episode. Listen to past episodes and discover more of our content that

Emily Thompson 1:03:49
will help you be boss in work and life. Did you like this episode, please share it with a friend and show some love by leaving a rating and review on iTunes. And if you're looking for a community of bosses to help take your creative business to the next level. Be sure to check out our exclusive community at being boss clubs slash clubhouse where you get access to our closed and very vibrant slack group monthly q&a calls with Kathleen and myself a book club and more. cultivate your tribe and find your Wolf Pack at being boss dot club slash clubhouse. Do the work be boss and we'll see you next week.

Kathleen Shannon 1:04:33
Okay, so we're all recording. Now what we're going to do is go round in a circle with you guys remember this so brain exercises. So I'll be one. Emily will be two. Jason will be three. Paul will be four. We're going to go around three times so you guys can do it. I have faith in us 12345

Paul Jarvis 1:04:55
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Unknown Speaker 1:05:05
I think that's it. That's good. Okay.

Jason Zook 1:05:07
So you didn't tell me I was gonna be seven. I thought I was gonna be three again.

Paul Jarvis 1:05:14
Stress Stress.

Kathleen Shannon 1:05:16
I don't like it. Sometimes I wonder if maybe I'm a bad teacher like in the way that I explain how to count.

Jason Zook 1:05:26
I mean, saying anything,

Emily Thompson 1:05:28
I think you're adequate. Again. Imagine how you could say that any better. It's fun.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:35
Hey, nice to see

Emily Thompson 1:05:37
your adequate