Episode 92 // Creating a Business Model with Tara Gentile

October 4, 2016

Tara Gentile is joining us on the podcast again to talk about business models and creating a legacy business. We’ve been working with Tara in her mastermind group to plan for huge growth in Being Boss, so we’re talking about some of the problems we’ve faced, what we need to do to reach the goals we’ve set, and how wanting more is nothing to be ashamed of.

Learn More about the Topics Discussed in this Episode
"Stop worrying about learning, stop worrying about taking it all in, and just fricking do it!"
- Tara Gentile

Discussed in this Episode

  • Growing Being Boss and how Tara's mastermind plays into that growth
  • Defining a business model
  • Lifestyle business vs. a legacy
  • How to let go of the obligation to do all of the things yourself
  • How intuition and gut checks play a part in business
  • Making money and wanting more vs. making "enough"
  • Tara's favorite resources and reads


More from Tara Gentile

More from Kathleen

Braid Creative

More from Emily

Almanac Supply Co.


Emily Thompson 0:01
Hello and welcome to being boss episode number 92. This episode is brought to you by the being boss clubhouse.

Being boss and work and life is being in it.

Kathleen Shannon 0:17
It's being who we are doing the work, breaking some rules. And even though we each have to do it on our own,

Emily Thompson 0:25
being boss is knowing we're in it together.

Kathleen Shannon 0:30
We are so excited today we are talking to Tara Gentilly. She is a business strategist and creator of quiet power strategy. But she is also our friend and mentor. We've been working with Tara for a little bit now and cannot wait to share this episode with you. We talk with Tara about oh gosh, everything from lifestyle versus legacy businesses. We talk about what we've learned masterminding with her. We talked about building offers versus systems and being brave enough to focus on one thing at a time. And finally we talk about how to design your business to make more money, and why there is no shame in that money game. So you can find more about Tara at Tara gentilly.com You can also learn more about her program at quiet power strategy calm and then finally her podcast is a must listen if you want to learn how to design a business that makes more money. It's called profit power pursuit with Tara Gentilly. So what's the secret to being boss? The secret is that there is no secret. There is no single formula course or book that will teach you what you need to know in order to have anything and everything you want.

Emily Thompson 1:44
But and here's what we've learned along the way. Being boss is setting up a solid foundation built on intention. It's understanding how to define success on your terms. It's committing to big ask goals. And it's breaking those big ass goals down into small actionable steps.

Kathleen Shannon 2:03
It's about making faster decisions, trusting yourself to see it through enjoying the process along the way, knowing how to measure what's working and what isn't. And surrounding yourself with smart, ambitious friends along the way. Those are the secrets to how bosses get what they want.

Emily Thompson 2:20
We know you want an online business that allows you to make money doing what you love, and boss we've got you. The beam boss clubhouse is where we teach you how to be boss of your life and work.

Kathleen Shannon 2:33
That being boss clubhouse is a two day online real time retreat, followed by 12 months of ongoing community support, monthly master classes and secret podcast episodes. We're only accepting 25 members for our next online retreat, learn more and apply to join at being boss clubs slash clubhouse. Tara, we're so excited to hang out with you today. We interviewed you a long time ago. But since then we've become a lot closer and Emily and I wanted to bring you back onto the show. to really talk about what we've been learning from you firsthand and share more about what you've been thinking a lot about lately.

Tara McMullin 3:16
I'm stoked. I think this is gonna be great.

Emily Thompson 3:19
Got it. I almost feel bad for Korea, we don't like getting the fits of giggles or anything too terribly embarrassing. So we'll see how it goes. We won't or maybe we will.

Kathleen Shannon 3:30
So a little bit of background and context. And Emily and I actually started working with Tara maybe what, five ish six ish months ago, we hired Tara specifically, or we joined a mastermind group with Tara specifically to work on leveling up being boss, being boss accidentally started making money in its first year and turned into a business that required its own bank account. And we had a lot of really amazing organic growth. But we wanted to start really thinking about how we could grow our brand, and our bank account very strategically. And I was so nervous about it going into it because I thought what if we change what's been working for us and it doesn't feel as authentic or as meaningful. So you're someone that I've been following for a long time. And I feel like you are very generous with your gifts of knowledge, but at the same time, you're not ashamed of wanting to build a business model that makes a ton of money. So let's

Tara McMullin 4:32
talk a little bit about that. Sounds good to me. These are my favorite topics.

Kathleen Shannon 4:37
Alright, so I would be curious, this might be a little bit self serving. But I really curious your business

Emily Thompson 4:46
model there, Tara.

Kathleen Shannon 4:49
Actually, I want you to tell us about our business model. Like I'm curious to hear kind of your insights as far as being Bosco is and as wanting to grow this thing that starts organically. And I'm asking this because I think that a lot of business models do start with creative entrepreneurs accidentally starting a business, and really wanting to keep the heart of their business in place, while at the same time scaling and growing in a strategic way. So feel free to use being boss as an example, or maybe just talk more generally about staying authentic, staying meaningful, staying generous, while also getting strategic and building your business.

Tara McMullin 5:28
Yeah, I think this is a really great place to start, because it brings up an important conversation that the three of us had a few weeks ago. And I mean, I have to just kind of start off by saying that, while I intended to start a business, when I started my business, I certainly didn't intend to have the business that I have. Now, I had no idea what it was going to look like how much money I was going to be able to make, you know what that model was going to look like what I was going to be doing, gosh, eight years later. So I'm right there with you guys. I'm right there with all the listeners who have started something kind of ad hoc spontaneously have discovered that they could make money doing something that they love, something that they're passionate about, something that comes really naturally to them. But then, you know, very quickly also realize that that's not enough. And then if there's not a system behind it, you know, it can peter out, it can stagnate, it can require a lot more work from you than you want to give it. And I do also think that this idea of, you know, keeping it natural, keeping it organic, keeping it genuine and authentic, is also a really key part of how you build out a business model. Because a business model is a system for making money. And that's incredibly important, actually a business model to define it. So that everyone knows, is a system for creating, delivering and exchanging value. And that's really important, those three pieces, you have to have all three pieces in place. creating value is not the product that you deliver, the service that you deliver, that's the delivering part we'll get there. creating value is helping people experience a change, helping them experience results, I like to say value is transformation. So whatever transformation, whether small or large, that you're helping your customers or your clients create, that's the value that you're creating. That's why they pay you, they don't pay you for your product, they don't pay you for your service, they pay you for the transformation that you create for them, then the delivering piece, that's the easy piece, that's the part that we're all familiar with. It's it's the product you sell, it's the service that you deliver. And it's how you put that value in the hands of the people that you're selling to the exchanging part then is the really fun part because that's where you get paid. That's the part where they exchange their money, and you exchange the results, or that's, you know, the delivering piece is essentially what you exchange. And of course, that can work in a lot of different ways. In some models, the exchange is an email address or creating an account, right, Facebook doesn't ask for any money from us, you know, unless your business owners like us, then they ask for your money. But the the average person, when they're exchanging with Facebook, they're just creating an account. And that's the exchange. And in exchange for that Facebook connects us with the people that we love all over the world. It's awesome. And that's part of their business model. So now that I've gotten that kind of nuts and bolts part out of the way, I think one of the things that's been really unique about the being boss business model that we did talk about a few weeks ago. And that's something that's very similar with my business model as well, is that we both run super not to pat myself on the back, but super generous businesses where we're always focused on just putting as much as possible out into the world to help people do what they want to do. You guys do it in the form of your podcast, and your blog, and the free Facebook group and all the other things that you put out, emails, checklists, content, upgrades, PDFs, all that good stuff, and you are just spewing all of that free goodness,

Kathleen Shannon 9:26
all the time. Definitely what it feels like, Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 9:29
that's a good word for it.

Tara McMullin 9:32
Strategically spewing, you're putting all of this good stuff out there. And that then is creating value for all you know, any aha moments someone has when you're having a discussion on the podcast. Anytime someone uses a checklist to plan a blog post or a campaign or to hire a new team member, you're helping them create a change and you're creating value for them. And all of that content is just how you do deliver that. I do the same thing with my podcast with my blog with my emails, I do that when every time I get on Creative live and deliver my best content for free to 1000s of people. And that that free part of this is so important to me as I know, it's so important to you guys. But in doing that, we're also creating a demand for additional support. People want more of what we've got, the more we give, the more they want. And so I feel pretty strongly that a really great way, not the only way, but a really great way for businesses like yours and mine to go about creating a revenue model out of the business model that you've already created in terms of giving away all this free stuff is to focus on a high end product. Now, that's not to say that you can't have smaller things in there as well. But the difference in value between what you can offer for free and what you can offer for say 20 bucks, or 50 bucks, it's pretty negligible, right? So why not just give that stuff away for free, you've got to be producing at an incredibly high volume to make a 20 or a $50 product makes sense as a revenue generator. And you're already doing that with free stuff. So why kind of, you know why mix it up with a paid product there, that's really not going to pay you very much unless you are just cranking them out and crank it through the sales as well. And so that's why I love looking at a high end model for businesses like ours, because that's how we can create the biggest differential between the value of working with us accessing our brains getting into that kind of systematic or mythos, you know, methodical ways of working through what we know or what we've created. And then the free stuff that we put out. That's, that's where the biggest differential is. And so that means that by and large, we're going to be working with smaller groups of people. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean small, right? It could mean 50 people at a time, it could be in five people at a time, like we do in the mastermind, it could mean 24 people at a time, like I do in our virtual retreats. And I think you guys are doing a similar size with the clubhouse now. And so, you know, it can mean all these different group sizes, it can mean 150, right, like we had, we did a high end conference with 150 people. And that was a valuable small experience as well, it wasn't 1000 people or 3000 people like they might have it world domination summit. But it's a different model. And it's a different way of delivering value to people so that they are receiving as great value as possible. So I think I'm probably starting to veer down a path where we should stop. But that's that's how I look at businesses like ours. And I think that that's how we maintain also as much of the organic growth as much of the authenticity and as much as the generosity as possible, you know, while still creating something that can put a lot of money in our pockets. And there are six figure businesses built that way. There are seven figure businesses built that way. There are eight plus figure businesses built that way. It doesn't have to mean that you're settling for, you know, a quote unquote lifestyle business, you can build a legacy business, you can build something that's a lot bigger than you, you can build something that you can sell later on and still have this very authentic, organic, generous free model that then is layered on top with a high end service or high end product as well. Was that too much? No, it

Emily Thompson 13:58
was perfect. And I love that, like we start with business model because that was one of the first things that you really made us dive into. Whenever we started working with you because Kathleen and I walked into the masterminding era, we have this bomb as podcasts. We have sponsors, like we got this. And then when Dad You were like So guys, what is your business model? and Kathleen and I look at each other like, I don't know. And like you really made us think about not just how we were making money now. But how we would be making it in the future and making sure that we were making it in a way that was really impactful for both the people who were a part of it, but also for us. And I think that that's something that a lot of people can get a little lost in is they start dreaming up these like ideal service packages or this like grand scheme for having whole sellers across the nation. Thinking about that end customer but not really thinking about what they want to do what they want to be doing in it and And that's one of the great things that I feel like we brought out of, out of really diving into being boss with you is that is not just about like that in number goal because Kathleen and I have some big numbers out there. But really what we wanted to feel like while we were doing it,

Tara McMullin 15:15
yes, I'm so glad you brought this up because you guys, if you don't mind me getting into some of the problems that go, I think, because I think the problems that you came to me with are so common and whether you're operating in a high end model, like I just discussed, or whether you're operating in a volume model, or you're operating in a service model, like these are problems that most business owners deal with, at one point or another. So the first one is you guys had a set of offers, you didn't have a model. And this is one of the first aha moments that my clients normally have a set of offers is great, it can bring you multiple streams of revenue, it can help you level up your earning, it can help you serve your clients in different customers in different ways. But it's not a system. And so you start experiencing all these other problems when all you have is a set of offers instead of instead of a real business model. customers don't repeat buy from you. Or you might not know what to market when or you don't have a singular message. And so your brand gets watered down, people don't know what you're known for, they don't know how to introduce you, your customers don't actually understand what it is that you offer, what your expertise is, what your specialty is, and so on all of those problems, then have a whole bunch of ripple effects on top of all of that. And so that's that's kind of this, this core issue with having a set of offers. When you have a business model, like I said, you have a system and I like to equate it to the way your body works. Our body is a set of systems as well. So you know, you've got your nervous system, you've got your circulatory system, your adrenal system, your muscular system. And if you just had all of those systems laid out in an operating room, you wouldn't have a person I know, this is a great analogy, I'm not gonna I'm not ever taken it this far, you wouldn't have a real person, right, you would have an anatomy classroom. And yes, that would not be super pleasant. And you you wouldn't be having very much fun. But when they're all working together, and when they're all healthy, they help you be who you are at your highest potential. And that's what a business model really is. It's a system of systems, your products your offers are the individual systems that are all working together so that your business can operate at its highest potential. And here's where it gets really good. Because the other the other piece of this is so you know, when you lift weights, the only, you're not only getting stronger, when you lift rate weights, you're also burning calories, you're connecting synapses in your brain, you're resetting your adrenals. And it works exactly the same way in your business. So that when you're promoting one product, or one offer, when you have a strong business model, you are going to reap benefits from that later on in your business model. So for you guys, when you throw an amazing boss vacation, you're not just throwing an amazing boss vacation and marketing that and selling it and creating that experience for customers or clients. Ideally, you are also selling out the clubhouse at the same time. And you don't have to do any more work other than maybe say, Hey, you know what a great way is to keep the boss vacation going is to join the clubhouse, that's all you have to do, because they're already sold on that one piece of the puzzle. So just like lifting weights, helps you reset your adrenals and lose weight, you know, focusing on one product, one message is going to have ripple effects through your whole business model. So that you're you're getting paid down the line exponentially more for a small amount of work that you put in in one place of your business model. Now, the other issue that you guys came to me with, and I think this leads to one of the big themes that we wanted to talk about was that you have very kind of incremental growth goals. So you were looking at where can I find this? $20,000 and where can I find that $20,000 and where can I find that $20,000 and with the kind of goals that you guys had, it was clear to me that you are not going to meet your goals $20,000 at a time or $10,000 at a time or even $50,000 at a time, you really needed to be looking at where you could get a six figure when a few times over to be able to meet your goal. And this is another big mistake that I think people make is that they're just they're looking to fill gaps, or they're looking to, you know, Alright, last October, I made $8,000. So how am I going to make $9,000, this October, that is not going to help you, you really need to be looking at the overall design of your business. And then that's really just another way to think about your your business model as well. And think what is the easiest way, what is the best system, what's the best structure, what's the best design for my business, to hit the goal that I want to have, you don't do it 10 or 20, or even $50,000 at a time you do it by going after solid wins, that actually get you closer to that ultimate goal that you want to have. And also, unless you want to be reinventing your business model every year, you don't create a design that gets you to the to the number that you have in mind for 2016. You get yourself you create a design based on the number you have in mind for 2019, for instance, and I think that's another thing. Yeah. And so that's another thing that we were really able to look at is where do you guys want to be a few years from now? And how can we design a foundation a model for your business, that it's not going to get you there this year, maybe it may not even get you there next year. But it's it's put the right pieces in place, so that you are working now towards your revenue goal for 2019 or 2020. And that's a lot more secure, fun, exciting, engaging place to be in your business than just trying to make $1,000 more than you made a year ago.

Kathleen Shannon 21:57
All of it Yes. Reach. This is why we love you so much. So I want to rewind a little bit, because something that you said stuck out. And I just want a little bit of clarification around it. Whenever you talk about building a lifestyle, business versus a legacy. Tell me more about what you mean there.

Tara McMullin 22:18
Sure. So I have to say that the the person I've most recently seen using that language is Alexis Neely. And there's a few there's different words that people use, although lifestyle is pretty consistent. A lifestyle business is a business that you're designing to pay yourself the salary that you want to make, essentially. So the business revenue and your salary aren't all that different. You know, even if you still have a 40 or 50% profit margin, it's not that different between revenue and your income. But a legacy business or you know, a business that you're creating an exit strategy for a business that you want to pass on, to your to your kids to your partner. That is something where you are you're building, you're not just building a container for you to do your work, you are building a container for people to do your work for you. You're building a system, you're building a process. Another place that this kind of discussion has been had a lot is in the E myth or the E myth revisited that book where he's talking about the franchise model, but really what he's talking about is actually building a business that works on its own merits, not just because you make it work. And that's another thing that creative entrepreneurs really run into is they're running businesses that work because they're making it work. And that's why we're constantly hustling. We're constantly pushing harder. We're constantly, you know, we're on vacation, and we're still answering email, we're on vacation, and we're still, you know, checking in with the team in a legacy business or, you know, any business that's not a lifestyle business, a franchise, a systematic methodology business, you're not having to worry about that, where your end goal is not having to worry about that. But there's a different design behind that business than a lifestyle business. And it's not to say that lifestyle businesses are bad, they're not bad. They're awesome. But I think that we have a lot of this is a whole other topic, but I think we have a lot of goal mismatching, especially in the online space. And so what I mean by that is that there's so many people talking about a million dollar passive income business. And there's a lot of people hearing that that are conflating that with a design business, a coaching business, and an online program business retreat business. And it's not to say that you can't be a life coach and have million dollar passive income business. But the model is completely different. Your business is not going to look like a life coaching business, it's going to look more like Tony Robbins business. And you don't have to have be Tony Robbins to have Tony Robbins business design or business model. But it does require building systems, creating a methodology, understanding your process, being willing to, you know, hand off important tasks, being willing to say, I'm not the only person who can do this. And that's a big part of this to a lifestyle business. You're the only one who can do this in a legacy business, anyone? Or maybe not anyone, but anyone qualified, could do it. Right? You can train someone to do what you do. There's a process, a system, a method methodology that someone else can follow. And that's what's valuable, not you, not your work, but that methodology. Okay,

Kathleen Shannon 26:01
let's go here for a second. Because this is something that makes me super or at least a couple years ago made me super uncomfortable. I feel like I've gotten past it a little bit, she may

Emily Thompson 26:10
still be breaking out in hives over there.

Kathleen Shannon 26:13
Well, think about whenever I think about breed creative. For example, breed creative is my agency. And I started it from the ground up. And it's rare, I really developed my personal brand. And I started to learn that you could leverage who you are to be a financially lucrative Money Making Machine, right? People were hiring me not because I'm a badass designer, which I kind of think I am no are. But and I don't even do that anymore, though, right. So that transition from being the person that people are hiring me for not just because I was a designer, but because they trusted me, because of all this generous knowledge I was putting out, they literally wanted me to be the one pushing the pixels. And it was really hard for me to get over that I'm over it with braid creative, I still know that my stamp of approval goes on every single piece, I've trained my employees enough to know exactly the quality of work that we put out. But it was a good two year transition to really get to that point of being comfortable with it. Well, now being Boss, I feel like I'm starting all over again. And it's really hard to feel like people are tuning in or hiring us because they want Emily and Kathleen and that we literally need to be responding to every single email and every single Facebook comment and all of those things. So whenever you're creating a legacy, how do you and I'm curious, maybe even for you, Tara, like behind the scenes in your business? How do you start to let go of some of that obligation to respond or to do all of the things yourself whenever you might think that's what people have come to expect? Or that's why people are hiring you?

Tara McMullin 27:59
Yes. Okay. I have, I could talk all day just about this question. So let me start with where you started, which is building brands around who people are what makes them unique? What makes them compelling? Because I feel really, really passionate about that, too. And I take it even further with, you know, with quiet power strategy, that's our whole thing is what makes you unique and compelling. And how do we fit that not just into your brand, but your business model the products you develop how you understand your customer, the marketing campaigns and sales campaigns that you put out there. And I think that this is again, a big point of confusion, a big misconception, especially in the creative entrepreneur online space. Because there are a lot of businesses out there that say you can get paid to exist. And I hate that. I hate it. It's dumb. I mean, like, Hi, I am willing to go like on the line to say it's not right. It's not a good idea. And I really despise that idea. However, you can build a business that's based on your unique set of skills, strengths, passions, what makes you compelling, what makes you different, what makes you uniquely effective.

Kathleen Shannon 29:18
But wait, just to clarify real quick, whenever you don't like the idea that you can get paid by being who you are, in, whenever you say that, like what comes up? Is it the sense of entitlement that like you don't have to do the work or you don't have to have the skills like that people are just going to hand you money. Does anyone actually believe that? I'm actually promoting

Tara McMullin 29:40
that? Yes, they are. Um,

Kathleen Shannon 29:43
and I've got my blinders on. So maybe I haven't seen any of

Tara McMullin 29:46
this. And even if they're in even if they're not literally promoting that the messaging that they use promotes that idea, and it's corrupting a lot of people's businesses. And brands. And that's what I have the biggest problem with I think it's dishonest messaging. So it's not that I think, yeah, I think it's a problem. If you think that you can just get paid to be who you are, and be wonderful. I mean, maybe there's a couple of YouTube people that are like that. But even then, like they are working at creating value, putting something really original out, you know, when they're doing something that stands on its own outside of who they are really, and truly, I think it's more that it's a very self centered way to approach your business. You are not who who powers your business, you are not the center of your business, your customer is the center of your business. And you can create a container for that customer that is unique to you. And that's built on what you value. But it's not the same as getting paid. Because you're you are because you have a unique set of skills. And the other reason I don't like it is because I think it's extremely limiting. Like if that's the credo that you have it, the only thing you can do is build a lifestyle business, and it is gonna die before you die. And that sucks. Because the only way you get to retire with a lifestyle business is if it keeps going. While you're still you know, even if you retire, right? So, um, yeah, sorry, where was I going with that. So that's, that's my biggest, that's my biggest issue with that is it's limiting. It's dishonest. It's just not right. But I think you can build something bigger that still based on you. And I know that that's what you guys do at braid. And that's what you've done with braid, too. That's what the braid method is you've created a methodology that, that you could, if you and Tara wanted to turn around tomorrow and sell it to another agency, you would have a very nice payday from that, right. And that's super duper important. And so what you guys learned idea,

Unknown Speaker 32:02
and creative?

Tara McMullin 32:04
Well, we could talk about licensing models then too, but you know, it's. So that's what you've done with braid, you realized that you didn't own a design business, you owned a business that has a methodology that's extremely valuable. Right now, you guys are the only ones that sell it. But in the future, there could be 20, or 50, or 150 different agencies selling the braid method. And eventually, you could sell the whole kit and caboodle. So with being boss, one of the realizations that we also had early on with you guys is what kind of company you were building. And it wasn't that you were building the Emily and Kathleen show company. And it wasn't that you were building the even a content company. Because when you came to me, what I assumed you were creating was a content company. But then it became very clear that what you were building was a community company, you have a company that creates a community and the community is what's valuable. And sure you guys have a show where, you know, you're the you're the focus of that community. But what's valuable about what you guys do is the people that you bring together, that's why the boss vacations have been so successful, they're not actually about you, you could make them about you, you could make a lot of money making them about you, but you can't build a legacy, making them about you because you can't sell you. However, someone else at some point, some other co host, some other set of people could come in and continue fostering the community that you've built, it might be rough at first, but it could be done and the more decisions that you make in your business that are based around fostering the community as the value aspect of what you're doing, the less dependent, that business is on you. And I think that is so important as you guys continue to hone your business model, as you continue to hone your brand, as really, you know, really defining this is a community company, the most valuable part of what we do is the community. And so anything any decision we make needs to be made in the spirit of nurturing and bolstering that community.

Kathleen Shannon 34:23
So let's talk about that for a second. Because I think that was one of my biggest takeaways in working with you is to really figure out what's working and double down on that one thing to be and that's coming exactly from you. I've started I've adopted double down you say it all the time, but really double down and place your bets in one area and focus on it and watch it grow if it has more potential to grow, put all your focus there. And this comes down to even business model funnels everything your chief initiative which is what we talked to you about About the first time that you came on the show. And so really figuring out that the community was the center of our business has really helped us create a business model around,

Emily Thompson 35:10
it really helped us tame the ideas, because I think that's obviously something that a lot of creatives sincerely struggle with his like all of the ideas, and God knows Kathleen and I are right in the middle of it, you put two of us in one business, and our like, list of ideas is ridiculous. So giving us some structure, or just the idea that if you find that thing that works, and you double down on that thing, then you'll have a bigger impact really helped Kathleen and I rein things in, so that we weren't doing all the sparkly things because God knows we could and it'd be amazing. But it'd be more amazing if we make the one thing really awesome.

Kathleen Shannon 35:51
But we created a container where we could still do all the things that we want to do, but still focus on selling just one thing. So to get really specific, just to make it clear for anyone listening how this actually works, is Emily and I were scrambling for one offer at a time we were talking about launching the chalkboard method as an offer. As an offering we were talking about maybe we could create a program around how to do project management in Asana. And that we would do offering

Emily Thompson 36:21
we were doing coaching and being about doing group coaching. And we were looking at mastermind groups, and

Kathleen Shannon 36:28
all one on one services, we had a lot of different services and models and products that we could create and then sell one launch at a time. And what Tara really helped us see is that if we really just focused on our being boss community, and our clubhouse offering, we can give a lot of support and create a lot of things that we want to create, but within the context of the clubhouse. So now they're getting all of the best of us. They're paying for it. We're being compensated for it. But it's all just one thing that we can really focus and systemize our launches around. So that has been so helpful for us. And I've taken it to all aspects of my life, like what can I double down on? How can I just focus on one thing at a time?

Tara McMullin 37:17
Yeah, I mean, this, people might also be familiar with it kind of with the Pareto principle, right? The 8020 rule that 20% of your effort gets you 80% of your results. And I think for a lot of entrepreneurs, what that really means is that we can stop doing 80% of the crap that we're doing, because it's not really getting you results, would you be willing to sacrifice that extra 20% to cut down to one day a week of work? I mean, I think the vast majority of us would say yes, right? That is essentially what we're talking about is what if you guys didn't have to launch 810 different products to hit your revenue goal? What if you only had to launch one product to hit your revenue goal? That's the idea. Now, I'm not gonna I'm not saying that every single business owner is going to find that one thing that's going to get them to where their revenue goal is, we don't have just one thing in quiet power strategy world. But we have a few different versions of something very similar. So that any, like I said earlier, anytime I promote one thing, we're feeding the whole business model. And so what we really focus on is, our focal points is moving people along their entrepreneurial journey. And so we're training we're nurturing we're supporting, and we have a clear system for doing it. That system is our one thing, even if there's kind of multiple ways to work with us along that one thing for you guys. I mean, you really do, you know, with a couple notable exceptions have this one thing that can be the focal point of everything of everything that you do, and also your entire revenue goal, too. And it's not putting all your eggs in one basket, which I'm sure some people are thinking like, well, what if the clubhouse explodes tomorrow, the clubhouse isn't going to explode tomorrow. That's kind of the that's the nature of a product like that. And, and so you don't have you don't have to worry about that. Plus, you've got this whole ecosystem built around that, you know, putting all your eggs in one basket is deciding that, you know, you're only going to go with search engine optimization, and then the next time the algorithm changes, you're screwed, because you don't know how to get people to your offer. That's putting all your eggs in one basket. But creating a system creating an ecosystem around a single focal point is a really tried and true way to build a business. I mean look at all of the ginormous Businesses that do that Google does it, Apple does it, Microsoft does it. IBM has done it, then they got away from it. They tanked and now they're back to it. So this isn't something that's for teeny, tiny businesses, this is something that's for all businesses. I think there was something else I was gonna say about all that too. And I have no idea what it was. But yeah, I know what it was. You know, what Kathleen, what you pointed out about creating a container that still allows you to ping pong back and forth with ideas. I think that's so important. I have that to you, I have it in two places. We have a lab community, which is pretty similar to the way the clubhouse is currently or the way it was before. Where people join for a low fee, I create content I do. There's some exclusive content that comes out every week, we do workshops, all of our all of our like webinars and stuff get archived into that community. And so I can pretty much say or do whatever I want, as long as it's helping people reach their goal. Any idea that comes to my head, that's the first place I go with that. The other place I have that is sort of the focal point of my marketing strategy, which is my partnership with creative live. And so if I have an idea for a class, but it's not, you know, it's not something that fits into the rest of the system, or maybe I haven't, maybe I've, it's been part of the system, and I want to break it out and teach it all by itself. I can go to them and say, Hey, do you want to help me get this in front of a few 1000 or 10 or 20,000 people? And they say, Sure. And so that way, I know, I've got that thing to focus on in terms of marketing as well. So yeah, Pareto principle, doubling down, however you want to look at it, have a focal point that you know, is designed to work with your unique strengths, what makes you most effective, what makes you most compelling, and then design everything else in your business around that focal point.

Kathleen Shannon 41:59
I want to talk a little bit about experimenting and exploring new ideas and kind of following your intuition. So one of the things that I love about you, and one of the reasons why we started working with you, is because it's not really about mindset, which we love, like we love being boss talking about mindset and habits and routines and encouragement and inspiration and motivation. But you're about like run the numbers, do some research and make some calculated decisions based on that research. And I'm curious, how does intuition or experimentation play a part in your own business model? And in what you're creating?

Tara McMullin 42:41
Yeah, that's a really great question. So I could probably incorporate more mindset into my business. But what I love is strategy and numbers and breaking things down and looking at the puzzle pieces and figuring out what's going to work. And that's something that I've prided both myself personally on and our brand. That's one of our differentiating factors. It's actually in our guiding principles, that what we sell is not personal development, it is business development, and we don't sell personal development as business development. It's not that I don't think personal development is important. I think it's super ridiculously important. But it's just not what we do. Um, so the role that kind of intuition plays for me is that the way I look at intuition is that it's informed by it's informed by facts, and that doing a gut check, going with your intuition meditating on something. You know, Natalie MacNeil talks about swallowing her decisions as part of a guided meditation. You guys should check that out. If you swallow my YouTube would both love swallowing your decisions, I could tell you that, anyhow. You know, that that's us all really good and important. But I really think that it has to be based on facts. And you have to do the work of uncovering what those facts are to be able to properly follow your gut or following your intuition. Because a lot of times what we think is intuition is fear. Or it's a misconception, or it's an assumption. And I don't see enough entrepreneurs doing the the hard work, because it's both of it is hard work. Both of them are hard work. But doing the calculations, doing the spreadsheets do it and I don't even do that many spreadsheets, but like really looking at the puzzle pieces. I don't see them doing that enough to then be able to trust their gut. Because I don't think it's just a feeling. I think that our feelings that that is that intuition is really guided by objective knowledge, and that our intuition helps us make the best use of that objective knowledge. But you have to have both. So that's, that's what I do. I absolutely do gut checks, I absolutely go with my intuition. I know that when I've been procrastinating on something, there's a damn good reason. And I need to get down to what that is. But I'm also constantly looking at the data as well. In terms of experimentation, though, experimentation is huge. That is one of our top values. That is everything I do is experimentation. I'm constantly experimenting, messaging, I'm experimenting with product design, I'm experimenting with benefits, features, prices, because kids can can pick constantly experimenting. So again, in that way, the lab is where I can do that most easily, I can go there. And I know there are 450 people who are willing to give me feedback on whatever it is that I need. And sometimes that comes in the form of literally asking for feedback. Other times, it comes from me writing a post and just seeing how many comments I get. Other times it is giving people a behind the scenes look at what I'm doing and seeing how that resonates with them. But I'm constantly experimenting with that community that I trust. I know those people I know they're invested in the work that we're doing. I know, they know the language that I use and the systems that I use. And so I use them as sort of my, my measuring stick when it comes to experimentation. So again, in the same way that I'm balancing objective evidence against my gut checks and my intuition, I'm balancing experimentation against, you know, the real metrics in terms of the people and their response to it to make sure that I'm, you know, going in the right direction with those experiments.

Kathleen Shannon 46:52
Just giving you a second Emily piping on it,

Emily Thompson 46:54
I'm processing

Unknown Speaker 46:57
you're over there taking notes.

Unknown Speaker 46:59
I am taking notes.

Tara McMullin 47:00
I totally Oh, speaking of that, though, processing internal processing, there was something that you the Kathleen, that you asked me earlier. Oh, it was about how how I have consciously made or avoided kind of becoming the centerpiece of my in charge. Yeah,

Kathleen Shannon 47:20
exactly right. Because like you are terrigen tilly.com, you have a podcast, under your name, or at least the subhead is your name, I mean, you've definitely made a personal brand for yourself, you are known for being an expert, and your personality is infused into that message. So I'm curious how you avoid really feeling personally responsible for every single person that crosses your path, and having to respond to every single email, I think that this is a big issue that I personally came to you with whenever hiring you, because I feel like you do a great job of sharing, but not necessarily being super accessible. And it's something that I'm working

Tara McMullin 48:02
on. So this is where my Myers Briggs type works in my favor, and yours does not. So I am an intp, which essentially means I like systems. But I like flexibility. And I'm an internal processor, I need lots of space to do my thing. And I've known this about myself, since they won, like getting that result, whenever I took that test, or the multiple times I've taken that test was no surprise. It very It is me to a tee, which means I've designed my business to give me space. So I think it was within the first six months, maybe it was within the first year of my business, I hired an assistant who was answering all my emails, I have not answered emails that come to my website address for seven years. Because I can't do that one. I'm terrible at it. If my email address was on my website, no one would ever get a response. And I'm that's that's self awareness, guys. I mean, that's knowing that this is not a strength of mine, and that I can hire someone who's going to do it better for me give better answers by you know, take the time to find the information. And so this kind of goes back to that business design idea. I've designed my business to fit my personality and my unique way of working. And I think that's really that's really important. Now that said that doesn't necessarily help you guys. Or Kathleen you especially where you do have a tendency to you know, you want to reach out and connect with everybody. It energizes you, it fuels you. But I think it's something that you just as you are consciously and intentionally designing your business you have to say when is it enough when is when is the way I'm communicating or connecting up enough? And when is it unnecessary? When is it not actually adding additional value? Because, like, for instance, I firmly believe that when someone emails the being boss email address, they are not expecting an email from the two of you, people know you're busy, they don't want you to answer their email, they want you to make more being bought boss episodes, right? Like, that's where your customers, your your listeners priorities are, they want you to make more great content for them. And so if they email you, they just want to know that they've been seen that they've been heard, maybe they want to link to something else, maybe they want to know how they can be in the next vacation, and assistant can handle all of that for you. And when you have the right systems, it works better than when you're trying to constantly do it. So that's actually a question that we ask when we're helping people build a strategic framework is how do you want to connect with people. And so I've consciously chosen to connect with people in such a way that I can be open, I can be transparent, authentic, all those buzzwords. And now you know, people can get to know me as a human, I can be accessible, but only in a way that does not mean anyone expects to hear from me, personally, I can be the the star on stage. That's the type of brand that I've built, and still help people feel personally connected to me. And then as long as I have systems in place in my business, that works, and it works better than if I was trying to answer all of my personal email. I don't know how Chris Brogan does that I don't know how Seth Godin does it. I don't know how those guys do at all I can say is they're definitely not i ntps. And I really think that you've, you've got to, you've really got to ask yourself, how do you want to connect? And when does that connecting, stop adding value and just start getting in the way?

Kathleen Shannon 52:09
You know, I think that everything that you just said is where personal branding is really going. And it's really what I'm trying to get across when it comes to being who you are in your business and letting your personality shine, but not draining you in a way that leaves you burnt out or spread thin, which I run the risk of almost every day, whenever I do, give too much of myself like on an individual level. And as far as those guys, you know, it's so funny that you mentioned Seth Godin, and Chris Brogan. And I find that like, anytime I look at anything that Gary Vander Chuck produces, I almost bought a course of his on personal branding, because I was like, I'm an expert in this, I need to be consuming more content around personal branding. And then he said something about responding to tweet to every single tweet, or writing emails at 2am. And I was like, Nope, I shut it down. I'm not buying anything that promotes or condones working until 2am, or responding to every single tweet, because I have a family. I've got more stuff to do. Anyway, yeah, amen.

Tara McMullin 53:19
Well, you know, I think you and I are totally on the same page in terms of personal brands, just because you have a personal brand doesn't mean that you are the end all be all of your business. I don't just have terrigen tilly.com and have that as my brand. I also have quiet power strategy. And even though it's not my name, it has me written all over it. And yeah, right. And that's one of its strengths. But it doesn't have to say Tara, and I can bring in other coaches, other instructors, other trainers, other team members that can be front facing to our customers. You know, Rosie does an amazing job doing sales for us, right, like her close rate on sales is ridiculous. I don't even know why I do sales calls anymore. Right. And so, you know, I think it's important to keep in mind that it doesn't have to be about you to be a personalized brand. I mean, you can even look at something like apple and Apple is imbued with who Steve Jobs was. And it's why Apple still succeeds is still just, I mean, Say what you will I know that there's Apple haters out there, but the fact that there's Apple haters just proves the point, right. Apple is was a personal brand for Steve Jobs just as Pixar was a personal brand for Steve Jobs. It doesn't have to mean that, like I said that you're the end all be all for your business. It just means that you're imbuing your company with your personal values what makes you most unique, what makes you effective, what makes you compelling

Kathleen Shannon 55:00
I think that's really truly the biggest lesson that I've learned is that you can start a business by yourself, which a lot of our listeners have, but that at some point, you can let go of the control you, you have to transition into being a leader, rather than a Dewar, if you want to grow and scale your business in the way that you want to grow and scale it, or at least Emily and I have to go from being the doers, to the leaders, holding the vision, and being able to communicate that vision and that brand well enough so that our customers, our teammates, and everyone that we collaborate with, or coordinate with, understands what it is that we're doing and where it is that we're going.

Emily Thompson 55:38
But at the same time building a business model that makes it all

Tara McMullin 55:43
possible. Yeah. And you guys have such a unique opportunity to because you can be leaders for your community, and your community can be the doers. Of course, you're gonna have a contractors or employees, you're going to have people inside the business that are doing work. But one of the beautiful things about the social era, like Mila for merchant rights, and her one of my favorite books, 11 rules for creating value in the social era. In the social era, our work is liberated from jobs. And that means that you if you guys set yourselves up, right, if you design the business, right, if you have the right business model, your community is actually going to be doing vast amounts more work for your business and brand than you or your team can do on your own.

Kathleen Shannon 56:26
Okay, I want to be sure and touch on a couple more things before we let you go. So let's talk about making money. Because one of the things one of the best things I learned from you and I thought I was good with money, I really felt like I had a good money mindset. I love money. I'm not shying away from it. But you wrote an email about it. Okay, so here's what happened. I'm seeing all this trend go on in Facebook, and then all these advertisings, like, create the six figure business create the six figure course. So then I saw backlash to the six figure business. And I know that a lot of our listeners are just trying to make $35,000 a year doing what they love. And so we want to make sure that they feel seen and heard. So I started feeling like yeah, who cares about the six figure business, when in fact, I care about it. Not only do I care about the six figure business, I actually care about maybe making a seven figure business and I want to be able to do it without apology. And so you've sent a couple of emails on the topic that I've received in my inbox, that have essentially given me permission to think about the seven figure business to be okay with the six figure business. So let's talk a little bit about money. Yeah,

Tara McMullin 57:40
money, you gotta want it. And I think that, oh, yeah, that backlash that you talked about, it's been driving me nuts. Because I see it in the chat rooms on my webinars, I see it on Facebook comments, I see it in emails that come through. And it's exactly what you said, you know, we have readers, listeners who are just wanting to make that $35,000 at 55, that $75,000, no matter where they're they're at, they're just trying to get by with that. They're trying to replace their old salary. You know, they're just they've done, they've run the number, they've looked at their expenses, and they know what they need to get by, right. They know what enough is. And I think knowing what enough is, is important. It's it's huge for how you manage your money. It's huge for how you spend your money. But it shouldn't dictate how you make your money. Because making money is an indicator, it's a metric of the amount of impact that you're creating in the world, the amount of value that you're creating in the world, the more money you design your business to create, the more value you're designing your business to create when it's done correctly. And so if you want an impact, if you want to create value, you have to want money, too. And that, you know, if you want to give it all away to charity Be my guest. Or if you want to set up a trust for your kids, be my guest, if you want to hire a team of 100, because that's how much money you make, and you want to take a salary of 75,000 Be my guest. That's totally fine. We're not talking about that we're not talking about living a life of access. But what I what I am talking about is designing a business that's creating the amount of impact that you want to create. And so that's, you know, the the emails that you brought up, that's what I was really talking about is that there is this misunderstanding that when you're making 35 or when you're making $75,000 that the way you get to 50 or 100 or 150 is to push harder to hustle more. And this is one of the other really dangerous conversations that's happening online right now. This hustle at all costs or, you know, hustle, just constant hustle. I hate that word. And there's a place for hustle. But it's not in getting you from 50,000 to 100,000. You know, you're if you're making $50,000 a year right now your business is designed to make $50,000 a year right now, there are very few instances where a business that's making $50,000 a year is really an underperforming six figure business. An underperform, it just, it doesn't happen very often, sometimes maybe you're starting off, you're just starting off, and that's the case. But most of the time, if you've been making 50 or $75,000, for a while, or even like 18 months, and you're not, you're, you know, you're pushing harder, but you're not getting to that next increment, it's because your business isn't designed to make more. And so I think this backlash against talking about six figure businesses or talking about seven figure businesses is really problematic. Because if we don't talk about it, if we don't pick them apart, if we don't look for how they work, and what we can learn from them, we can't design the businesses that are not only going to are not only designed to make us that amount of money, but to make us our to allow us to have that kind of impact in our communities. And that's super duper important. Um, you know, I think the other thing that's going on here, too, going back to kind of like how much is enough, is that we set the bar too low. And so when we when we set a goal of just enough when our revenue goal is our enough income goal to if any mistake you make puts you in the rent, it puts you behind any little any crazy thing that happens in the market, any not crazy thing that happens in the market, you accidentally launch on a holiday, you your email server goes down, your website goes down on launch day, crap, you have no control over right, I'm really good at launching on holidays, by the way.

I haven't done it in a while. But it's only a matter of time. Anyhow, if you've only set your goal, fair enough, if you've only designed your business to make enough for you, you're always going to fall short, something's always going to come up. So I want people to be setting goals that are at least two to three times what enough is, that's the only way you can both ensure you're going to make the money that you need to make that you want to make to live the lifestyle that you want to live and have enough money left over to invest in the business as well. And so for people who are constantly thinking, Well, how do I get ahead? I'm only ever getting by how do I get ahead? How do I hire people? How do I get my website redesign? How do I hire braid? How do I hire indie shot biography? How do I join the clubhouse so that I can talk with other entrepreneurs, you have to set the bar higher to begin with, so that when things inevitably go wrong, you're still well above where you need to be making that subtle shift. And it's I know, it sounds obvious, guys. But making that subtle shift is really the difference, you know, between continuing to struggle, and finally feeling like you're free.

Emily Thompson 1:03:14
I am doing a happy dance over here. I need everyone to like rewind about 20 seconds and listen to that shit again.

Kathleen Shannon 1:03:25
What do you what do you love the most about that Emily? Like what really resonates when you hear Tara say that?

Emily Thompson 1:03:31
I think it's the enough thing, this idea that people do run their numbers and they know what they need to make. And then that's it. But you don't have control over everything I think about like so many, like I do three, my three and 13 coaching calls, like free coaching calls with people on my list once a month and never fails, at least one of them always comes to me with like, you know, I just want to make like what I need to make, but I still need help to get there. And I'm like, wait, wait a second, like this is this is assuming that you have a fully booked calendar constantly, that no shit hits the fan and that everything goes perfectly smoothly. Like, let's actually step back and make bigger goals. And then we hear you know, people complaining about prices of products or services or needing to hire a web designer or wanting to take it to the next level. But you don't plan for that. Whenever you're thinking about your revenue. I love that you I love that it's preaching this idea of just having a wider mindset for what it is that you can accomplish if you just set the goals. And then you have wiggle room to do the things you want to do without doing anything too crazy.

Tara McMullin 1:04:41
Yeah, and when you set the bar that much higher, you take different actions. When you've set the bar for enoughness. You only do what is enough and guess what, it's never enough. And it's not because of how hard you're working or how much time you're putting in. It's because it's not the right set of action. And so when you create that much bigger goal, you have to approach the problem differently. And all your listeners are creative thinkers, right? Like this is their wheelhouse coming up with the right problem, when you're when you've set your goal for enough, you essentially have the wrong problem to solve in front of you, when you set your goal for 100,000 500,000 a million dollars, now you have a new goal to figure out the solution for and if you said to all of your listeners, I want you to figure out how to make a million dollars next year, they could all do it, they could all figure out what that design looks like. They may they may not not, they may not know like the exact inner workings, guess what that's it's easy to learn. You talk to the right people. And you don't even necessarily have to talk to somebody like me, right? Like just talk to a few other people who have built a million dollar business, you will figure out what those little things are. But you could create the design that's going to get you to a million dollars. And guess what the action you take tomorrow is going to be completely different than the action you took last week to get that to that enough goal. And that's the real key is that everyone who's just struggling to get by on these small goals, or if they're taking the wrong actions on the wrong design for their business, than if they set the bar higher, they would realize they need to do different things in a different structure and a different design. And it's game changing.

Kathleen Shannon 1:06:32
And this is where I want to kind of circle back around to everything that you're creating, Tara because I wanted to ask, okay, so how do you design your business differently. And the first thing is listening to power profit pursuit listening to your podcast, you are basically asking people how they design their six, figure seven figure eight figure businesses, right. But you can also subscribe to these businesses. Look at literally what Tony Robbins is doing by subscribing to his newsletter list, looking at his events, looking at how much he's charging, you can kind of start to reverse engineer business models just by really following someone pretty closely. And that is a great way to learn how to design your own business. And I am curious what you think about, well, we shouldn't even go there. We don't have enough time. But I mean, there there have been programs that are like, I have a problem with these cookie cutter programs that create the same business model. And then you can see like, oh, that person went through that course or that person went through that nutrition program, like I can spot them from a mile away. So I don't think that there is like a cookie cutter program. And I don't think that's what any of us are promoting whenever it comes to designing that business model. And probably that most of you can design a business model in an authentic, meaningful way that works for you. Um, wow. So okay, do you have any final questions, Emily, I feel like I could just keep going forever.

Emily Thompson 1:08:00
I know, well, and I could do like this, because this topic is huge. Because every time I've ever like wanted to step it up in my business, it's just a redesign of the of the way I do business. And you get there, if you want to stay and the way that you do business now and continue making like you'll continue making the same amount of money, in which case, just be comfortable there. And don't gripe about it and be happy and be boss and it's great. But if you want to take it to the next step, take it to the light, take your business to the next level. And

Kathleen Shannon 1:08:28
that's what I was going to say Emily and I made big goals for ourselves at the beginning of the year. And whenever we made that big goal, our behaviors changed and one of those behaviors was hiring you and joining your mentorship program, Tara it was it was a commitment to our goals. And sometimes those commitments cost money. Sometimes you have to put some skin in the game to really get committed and let your goal know that you're being serious. Yeah, absolutely.

Tara McMullin 1:08:57
Yeah. And you know, and it doesn't even like it doesn't have to be hiring someone like me, like I have a business design system like you want it. Talk to me. I'll show you it works. It's great. It's awesome. I love doing it. But it doesn't have to be hiring me. When I interviewed Danielle Laporte, one of the things that we talked about was how I forget what the exact example was that she used, I think it might have been going into a very fancy new york boutique and like looking at the $10,000 handbags, right?

Kathleen Shannon 1:09:27
And just she was talking about holding the hand, right.

Tara McMullin 1:09:30
And for me, it was a house I wanted to buy a house it was never on my radar. I was not saving for a down payment for years and years and years. If I wanted to buy a house in the next you know, six months I needed to make money now, you know, and and put me to be able to put that down and really get what we wanted to get. And so for me it was starting to pour through the real estate listings deciding what that price point was going to be deciding what that downpayment needed to be and figuring out What was it going to take to make that happen now, not three years from now not saving up not waiting, like waiting. I just got a new car yesterday to like, I'm not awake. We walked. We rented the car that we wanted by chance. And then we're like, now done. We're buying this car tomorrow. wasn't exactly tomorrow was. It took us four days. But But still, we're, I'm not a waiter. Right? And so

Kathleen Shannon 1:10:26
I can I just say I'm so glad that you've gone from four to sukru. Thank you. I fully support this,

Emily Thompson 1:10:32
but which Oh, gray David is like a Subaru mascot. I think everyone who owes a good Well,

Tara McMullin 1:10:38
yeah, I know. That's what I feel like I've just I've been doctrine ated into the cults. Now. I'm okay with that. Yeah, I'm

Emily Thompson 1:10:45
gonna get you an ino hammock. It's in choco shoes. And we're totally

Tara McMullin 1:10:48
in, you know, my dance goes count. Like, I think my dance goes count. Now, almost okay. I mean, I seriously with my, my mountain man from Oregon, slash Montana slash Alaska. And my clogs and my, you know, undercut hair and my funky glasses. I felt like the biggest cliche walking out of there. I also felt pretty awesome. So anyhow, yeah, it doesn't have to necessarily be buying the $2,000 program or buying the $10,000 program or going on the fancy retreat. Absolutely, those things have helped me. Whether I've learned anything or not, like you said, it's that commitment. Sometimes that makes all the different. It's taking that different action, it but it can also be deciding you're going to buy this house, or you know, setting your sights on that European vacation, or deciding you're going to hire a full time project manager by the end of the year. And figuring out what you need to change. Now, what you could change right now, to put you in the position to do that sooner, much, much, much, much sooner. rather than later. We always we put off these changes we put off, you know, while all act differently, well guess what, when never happens. So you, you have to set your sights on it, you have to commit to it now. So you change your behavior, change the way you structure things, you change the way you design things now, to create the space and the opportunity to get where you want to go.

Kathleen Shannon 1:12:20
One thing that I've especially found when setting big goals is that my lower numbers don't seem so big anymore. So now that my goals are like in the seven figures, let's say hustling for $1,000 at a time isn't worth my time. So going back to those like landing those big wins. And it's so funny how those numbers start to become smaller and smaller, the bigger your goals. Yeah,

Tara McMullin 1:12:44
I mean, guys, when I started my business, the most anyone had ever paid me was $28,000 a year to work 60 hours a week hustling my ass off managing 40 people on a $50 million or $5 million operation. And now if I don't have a $20,000 month like I'm doing something wrong, seriously wrong. And and the moment that I realized that that number was like a problem to me, sort of like a come to Jesus moment, like what has happened was also really important because I'm, I'm not doing those calculations anymore. I'm not trying to figure out how I make 10 or 20 or $30,000 a month, I am constantly I constantly have my eye at 80 to $100,000 a month, anything, any business design, any model that I have that cannot hit those numbers on a monthly basis is a problem. It's not acceptable. I cannot I'm not going to prioritize that action. I'm not saying I do it every month, I don't. But if I'm not working towards that, if that's not the action that I'm taking, it's not it's not okay. It's not. That's not how my business works. It's not how I want it to work. Okay, I

Kathleen Shannon 1:14:03
feel like you're really great at staying on top of business trends. I feel like you have your finger on the pulse. What are some of your favorite resources or books for keeping you are on the cutting edge of like, learning new business models or techniques or copywriting tips.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:18
Oh, man, where are you? Where are you at? What are you reading? Um,

Kathleen Shannon 1:14:24
what comes into your inbox that

Tara McMullin 1:14:25
you look at? That's a really good question. So I do. I don't follow any other business coaches. I follow people who have subject level expertise. So one of my favorites is copy hackers. A lot of my business thinking process is a writing process. And so copywriting is really huge for me. So Joanna Wiebe at copy hackers comm I read everything she puts out, I read every almost everything we meet puts out still. Who else I am you I follow also not just people in our space. So, you know, the Lean Startup emails, I read those, I get them, I, you know, I engage with that material. I would say more than anything right now I'm listening to podcasts. And I listen to podcasts that are again, not necessarily geared for the information marketing space, I listened to those two. But I love listening to podcasts that are geared for the startup space for, you know, SAS companies, I tend to seek out information that's not in my exact purview, because it helps me think more creatively about the problems that I have and the opportunities that are in front of me. And I don't think enough people do that. But that's why I get paid the big bucks that because it's not always easy, right? It's not always easy to translate what's working in someone else's industry to what's working in your industry. But I love doing that. So that's, that's kind of the big thing that I do. And then for me, this has a brand and I were playing with some new messaging the other day, and this year, I declared as the year of the mastermind, and it has evolved into what we are soon going to call the year of strategic serendipity. So that's the other thing that I constantly and I have been for a very long time actually constantly putting myself in the line of I'm strategically choosing opportunities, spaces, conversations, groups, mentors, books, podcasts, whatever it is that create serendipitous moments, in other words, a big aha moments that come out of nowhere, they're not necessarily the answer to a question I even have, but they create an opportunity that has ripple effects years down the line. And so any, I think, you know, that's a great takeaway, I think for people is at any opportunity that you have to put yourself in a place where you're going to get exposed to a new question, a new problem, a new idea, something you've never heard of before, and you don't know where these things are gonna come only that, you know, connecting with people who are not your normal crew. That's how it happens. And so that, to me, is strategic serendipity. And that's where we all need to be putting ourselves if we want to stay ahead of the game, in terms of business and marketing and sales trends.

Emily Thompson 1:17:24
You got what Wait, what do you call it?

Kathleen Shannon 1:17:26
strategic strategic serendipity.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:29
I call it intentional magic.

Kathleen Shannon 1:17:31
I love it. I love it so hard, because even this conversation with you feel serendipitous, I've been following you for a long time. And I think it's not just consuming the content, but really engaging with it. So I think that there is something to be said for not just listening to a podcast, but leaving a review, engaging with the host that you really like. It's not just reading a book, but leaving an Amazon review and subscribing to the author's newsletter. I think that there's so many ways that you can start to engage with the content that you're consuming, that really sets you up for that, you know, serendipitous moment where you can actually work with that author or hire that coach.

Tara McMullin 1:18:16
Yeah. And I think it also means that sometimes finishing the book, or even finishing the podcast episode is not the best use of your time. Sometimes it's listening to it for five minutes, getting an idea, shutting it off, and making like setting down an experiment. Like I listened to the perpetual traffic, podcasts as an example. They are there in the information marketing space, but they are in the paid traffic kind of really, super, not old school is the wrong word. But they're in the conversion marketing space, right? We don't talk about it a whole lot. I talk about it a little bit, but not a whole lot. And in our space, we don't talk about it a whole lot. So a lot of times I'll be listening to something, you know, first 30 seconds, first five minutes of an episode. I know something new. I want to try with my Facebook ads. I'll shut that shit off. And just get into my ads manager and do it. Stop worrying about Yeah, stop worrying about taking it all in. Stop worrying about trying to find the right answer and just frickin do it.

Kathleen Shannon 1:19:16
Agreed. Done. That's a great place to end the episode. Just do it. Thank you so much, Tara for joining us as a repeat guest. We don't have very many of those. We have loved working with you. We love all of your gifts of knowledge and thanks for sharing it with our audience today.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:36

Unknown Speaker 1:19:37
thanks so much for having me.

Kathleen Shannon 1:19:39
Thank you for listening to being boss. Please be sure to visit our website at being boss club where you can find Show Notes for this episode. Listen to past episodes and discover more of our content that will help you be boss in work and life. Did you like this episode, please share it with a friend and show some love by leaving a rating and review on iTunes. Do the

Emily Thompson 1:19:59
work Be boss and we'll see you next week.