Episode 93 // Jasmine Star on Authenticity and Haters

October 11, 2016

Today we’re excited to welcome Jasmine Star on Being Boss. Jasmine became one of the most sought after photographers in California in 2007, and in 2009 she was named on of the top 10 wedding photographers in the world. This was only after starting her photography business in 2006. Now she provides coaching for other creative businesses so we’ve got a lot to talk about scaling a business, shifting focus, and dealing with that inner critic and haters.

Learn More about the Topics Discussed in this Episode
"Give yourself grace. That's the hardest thing that any boss could do."
- Jasmine Star

Discussed in this Episode

  • How Jasmine and Kathleen met
  • Jasmine's story of how she got to where she is today
  • How to find the confidence to pursue your passion when you don't have any experience
  • Scaling and leveraging massive growth
  • The mindset of leaving a job or opportunity that looks good on paper to pursue something else
  • Unrealistic expectations and social media
  • Dealing with haters and being afraid of what people will say
  • Managing your inbox and protecting your time + boundaries


More from Jasmine Star

More from Kathleen

Braid Creative

More from Emily

Almanac Supply Co.


Emily Thompson 0:01
Hello and welcome to being boss episode number 93. This episode is brought to you by the being boss clubhouse.

Being boss and work and life is being in it.

Kathleen Shannon 0:17
It's being who we are doing the work, breaking some rules. And even though we each have to do it on our own,

Emily Thompson 0:25
being boss is knowing we're in it together.

Kathleen Shannon 0:29
Okay, you guys, we have a really special guest here today, Jasmine star,

Emily Thompson 0:34
she's really fantastic. I want to be her best friend.

Kathleen Shannon 0:39
For those of you who don't know, Jasmine star, in 2007, she became one of the most sought after photographers in California and in 2009 was named top 10 wedding photographers in the world. And this was after starting a business in 2006, in which she had never even picked up a camera before professionally. And in 2010, Jasmine began consulting creatives on how to build their brands and saw their businesses radically transform in a short amount of time. So we're so excited to talk to her today about her journey, but we also touch on authenticity, and being yourself in your business, and how to deal with those damn haters, or perhaps just that inner critic. So what's the secret to being boss? The secret is that there is no secret. There is no single formula course or book that will teach you what you need to know in order to have anything and everything you want.

Emily Thompson 1:35
But here's what we've learned along the way. Being boss is setting up a solid foundation built on intention. It's understanding how to define success on your terms. It's committing to big ass goals. And it's breaking those big ass goals down into small actionable steps.

Kathleen Shannon 1:55
It's about making faster decisions, trusting yourself to see it through enjoying the process along the way, knowing how to measure what's working and what isn't. And surrounding yourself with smart, ambitious friends along the way. Those are the secrets to how bosses get what they want.

Emily Thompson 2:13
We know you want an online business that allows you to make money doing what you love, and boss we've got you. The being boss clubhouse is where we teach you how to be boss of your life and work.

Kathleen Shannon 2:25
The being boss clubhouse is a two day online real time retreat, followed by 12 months of ongoing community support monthly master classes and secret podcast episodes. We're only accepting 25 members for our next online retreat, learn more and apply to join at the boss club slash clubhouse. Jasmine, we're so excited to have you on being boss. Thank you for joining us.

Jasmine Star 2:51
Thank you guys for having me. I can't tell you this is exciting. And like such an honor. You have no idea seriously. Well,

Kathleen Shannon 2:57
we're always getting asked how we get such great guests. And it usually begins with us making a list of people that were fans of and then emailing them directly or asking an intern asking for an introduction from a mutual friend. So my friend promise made an introduction because I wanted to have you on the show. And you said yes you were so kind and in our email exchange back and forth just kind of getting things set up. I revealed to you that when I first saw you speak years ago, I was so jealous of you and not only really starting here are we really wow and hit my ground running like okay origin story origin story. I was so jealous and not even good jealous like I was bad jealous. I was jealous of your popularity. I was jealous of your success. I was jealous of your beauty like you are a supermodel not to diminish all the other stuff that you've got going on. Um but then I saw you speak and funny enough before we get there this is also whenever seeing you speak it was the first time Emily and I hung out in real life

Jasmine Star 4:04
so I'm the reason you guys came together but pretty much

Emily Thompson 4:07
there you go and I don't know why cuz she was mad like she was mad jealous about it. She was like I don't want to go to this talk. I'm so mad about it but it's on personal branding so I feel like like you know I paid to come here like I need to at least go like see the talk that I am like an expert in like to get that knowledge as well. So like she finally gave in and did it and we go sit down.

Kathleen Shannon 4:30
And I also have to share this is the first time I'd ever had kombucha was at your talk. So I had

Jasmine Star 4:36
life is complete personal branding business partners kombucha What do you need anymore?

Emily Thompson 4:41
It was a magic moment.

Kathleen Shannon 4:42
It's the first time I had kombucha so I'm all like, I don't know green like literally green with envy over you and I have this bottle of kombucha and I'm just shaking it like shake shaking because it's the first time I had no idea. And then I open it like it's probably you gave your first sentence I opened this computer, it explodes all over myself and the table I just add insult to injury, but after seeing you talk, the things that you said, shaped how I feel about personal branding, but even more so like beyond being smart and generous, you were just so kind and warm. And there was not any hate and my bone in my body girl crush

Emily Thompson 5:31
like a solid starry eyed girl crush it I was in love and I the transformation.

Unknown Speaker 5:37
I've been in love ever since

Jasmine Star 5:39
I need to wet the thing. The crazy thing is, is that like so often online, and then even in real person events, we kind of and I say we because I know what it's like to be like, I don't want to like this person right now. Because I'm having I've just sipped on haterade all morning. And I'm just all kinds of jealous. So I definitely know what that feels like. And you know, at that conference, we our paths intersected at alt summit. And at that conference, I spent the vast majority of the conference alone in my hotel room calling my husband crying and be like, everybody here is so cool. I just don't fit like I don't fit in and everybody's so well dressed. Like I seriously look like I like walked out of like Kmart. And I was like blue light special outfit compared to all these amazing, gorgeous, nice, wonderful people who are all successful. And I was like, Man, what I wouldn't give to not eat food in my hotel room alone, like so, you know, it's crazy how on the outside, it could be perceived as something but at the end of the day to be sitting here talking to you guys. It's like full circle moment for us and like personal growth, business growth and just being okay, not being okay.

Kathleen Shannon 6:43
Yeah, and I only highlight this story. I mean, it's really actually kind of embarrassing to share and I normally wouldn't, but I want people to know that everyone feels this way. And whenever you told me that you were not feeling good at all like that your experience was nothing like I perceived your experience to be I just thought we had to share that right? anyone elses feeling jealous, like bad, jealous or feeling like they're not good enough or smart enough? Or pretty enough? It's just not true.

Emily Thompson 7:14
It's all in your head all in your head. I know. I think Kathleen was like imagining you being like, carry down the hallways like shoulders, and all these like magnificent things. So we did we both left that session like with this whole new perspective. And like I will definitely Always remember that talk is like one of my favorites I've probably ever had so like having you on for us as you guys think a little

Jasmine Star 7:39
Bossman Okay, you guys, and no pressure. Thanks so much your audience is going to be like waiting for like, there. Yeah. Got the mic. Thank you guys, podcast.

Kathleen Shannon 7:52
So I want to get into this idea. Because of your social media presence. I had this idea of who you were, and, and was delightfully surprised, not that your social media presence doesn't match what you share. I think you do a really great job of keeping it real. But I want to get into a little bit of that, like how do you grow your social media presence, but stay authentic and, and not get kind of overwhelmed by it. But first, for our audience that does not know who you are? Can you share just a little bit about your journey starting as a photographer?

Jasmine Star 8:29
Absolutely. I think it's really important. I'm a huge fan of like indie films, and my my favorites are the ones that start at the end. And then they flash forward back so that people know like present day, this is what we're working with in order to get to like a satisfying conclusion. So for the sake of this podcast, we're gonna like movie, we're gonna storyline this. So presently, I am a branding and marketing strategist for creative entrepreneurs. So we're all you know, on this podcast, doing very similar things. We want to empower creative entrepreneurs to really identify and solidify where they are in their industry. So then that begs the question of like, well, how did you as a photographer, get there and I will be the first to admit I suffer from the imposter complex. Since we're being we're being kr, right? We're keeping it real from the outset of this podcast is like we all suffer from those complexes, like, Who am I to be in this position? How did I earn this authority, and I never want to come across being like, you guys. I have it together. Let me just tell you, but I think that's part of the story. The story just goes to show that you don't have to have everything in order to fall into the thing that you were created to do. So in 2005, I was a law student and I was there I got a full scholarship and I thought, Okay, this is what I'm supposed to do with my life. I'd worked really hard to get there. And it was during that my first year of law school that my mom had a relapse of brain cancer. And it kind of just it was her second really, really big bout of it and the doctors, we tried everything. She had two brain surgeries and they just said okay, her time, her time has come and it's time for you to make funeral arrangements. So this is my first year of law school. So wildly unhappy, I was so depressed. And I knew that my mom was 50 years old. And I was 25 years old at the time. And I thought to myself, if I have 25 years after my life, I don't want to die. A lawyer like I felt like I was having a midlife crisis, because I was forced to reckon with the idea that life isn't, I'm going to live till I'm 100 it was life can be gone in the twinkling of an eye. And it was then that I made the decision to walk away and I thought I my full intention was I'm going to return I'm going to return. And luckily, I was at UCLA law school, and they gave me three years to get my scholarships to reclaim my scholarships. And so I called my boyfriend and I said, Hey, I left law school. And he's like, great, do you want to get dinner? And I was like, Well, no, I like left law school. And it came as a shock to everyone. But part of the scholarship covered my housing, and I was living in on campus housing for law students. And I was no longer a law student. So I didn't have a home. I didn't have any money. I didn't know where to go. And so I went to the place where I knew I wanted to be and that was at home. So drove home, packed up all my stuff in a day and my boyfriend drove me back home, I get home, and I walk up the stairs, and my mom's in bed, and it's late at night, and I crawl up behind her and I put my nose to the back of her neck, and I take a big whiff. And it smells like Pons, facial cream, and Eucalyptus. And it's a smell that I will never forget for the rest of my life. And I thought to myself in that moment, I just made the best decision of my life. And then later that night, I walked downstairs to my bedroom that I had been raised in. And the next morning, I opened my eyes. And the first thing I see is an insync poster on the wall. And I thought to myself, I just made the worst decision of my life. I'm back at home, I'm 25. What am I doing? I'm totally lost. And it was during that time that my that I really wanted to start pursuing photography, I wanted to document my mom's journey with how things look for her. And one thing we knew my boyfriend at the time and myself was like, I want my mom to see me get married. And so he proposed and three months later, 22 of us were on the coast of a Hawaiian shore. And my mom and my dad against all odds, walk me down the aisle. And I thought to myself, like my mom is here, I'm happy. And I saw my wedding photographer, shoot my wedding. And I was like, that guy has the life. And that was the start of it. That was the start of it. It was like a wake up call my mom's life being short, me not wanting to go to law school, I said, What do I want to do? I said, I want to shoot, and I didn't have a camera. So that's the story. That's the start of like a really long story.

Kathleen Shannon 12:38
But you are one of the most sought after photographers, especially in the wedding industry. I feel like you love love, but you also have a really amazing eye. And so do you think that that was almost a calling that it was meant to be that it was something that just wasn't fostered in you from a young age to be a photographer? Like how did you find the confidence to pursue photography whenever you didn't have any official training? Or even a camera in hand?

Jasmine Star 13:05
That's a really great question. And I think that there's a book I read by Elizabeth Gilbert called Big Magic,

Unknown Speaker 13:13
right changer.

Jasmine Star 13:14
Like it was I How I wish like it's a book I want to give to every 22 year old girl who's kind of venturing out into the world of defining herself. And I think that what I didn't know then which is what I know now is that creativity dwells within me. And people could criticize and say, Oh, she's not a good photographer. She's not artistic. She's not x y&z but one thing that I know without certainty that nobody can shake is that I am creative. And I don't have to be good. I just have to manifest the thing that's within me. And that's to be creative. And so I didn't have permission from the outside world to be like, Oh, sure, darling, like you can dream of unicorns and glitter and have a camera. Like it was silly for all intents and purposes, but I would rather pursue creativity stupidly, and be in love and passionate with that thing that I'm doing. And I think that that's how it started. I didn't have rules or permission. But that's the one thing I tell other people, it's like, you don't need your creativity and your passion to pay your mortgage, you just need to do it. And if it happens to pay your mortgage at some point in the future, then awesome. But the only thing that I was called to do then, which I know other people are called to do now is to pursue creativity to pursue the thing that's in you. And at the time. For me it was I needed to hold a camera and I need to shoot and I never thought that it would turn into a business. I never thought that we would grow the business to what it is. And yet we have.

Kathleen Shannon 14:34
Okay, so here's a question for you then for a lot of the creatives listening to this podcast, many of them are really new on their path. And going back to what made me so jealous of you from the get go was how quickly you were able to scale your photography, business and your reputation. And I want to know what were a few of those things that you did was it right place right time. How did you grow your business? So quickly to be able to pay the bills doing what you love?

Jasmine Star 15:06
Such a great question. And one like one thing I feel like I have to just say is like, you guys are a perfect team and people will criticize on the outside. But very much like what Rene Brown says it's like, good for the person who's on the arena floor, who's trying and failing and growing. And you guys are finding that beautiful dynamic and so on the outside people are like, you know what, one person does all the talking and one person does all the listening, you know, what you need to do is you need to dust your shoulders off and say, yes, and we are doing it. Thank you very much. Goodbye.

Kathleen Shannon 15:35
And you know what's so funny about that? I assume that we would have probably edited that clip out, but we're going to leave it in. Because we just did Emily and I together a personality test that how to fascinate by Sally hogshead. Have you done that at all? No, but I need to do it. Jasmine, I've got to go today, it was so insightful and pay for the full thing. It's like okay, the box for Donald profile. So we just did it. And our personalities. It's kind of two words. And so mine is power and prestige. It's the maestro, and Emily's is his power and Mystique. So the mystique part of her personality is that listener part. So more than anything, it really gave me permission to keep talking until I

Emily Thompson 16:20
gave it gave me permission to not want to have to talk all the time. I'm listening. And I'll have you guys a mic drop moment in a minute.

Jasmine Star 16:32
But that's actually that's a good segue. That's a really fantastic segue. Why? Because there is the two main things that in retrospect, which is what I wish I knew 11 years ago, but what I know now is how I was able to scale and leverage this really pretty massive growth. And it came in two ways. First and foremost, came from authenticity, and the fact that you can openly admit and say, Oh, I feel a little bit uncomfortable. When people on the outside say, hey, you talk too much. There is beauty in owning that. And there's beauty and owning Mystique. And can we just all get a collective? Hell yes. For owning of the power between the two of you. Okay. Okay, so there's that. So there was this beauty of being myself 100% online, which is one was so rare. And we have to kind of like reframe the way that we're looking at this. So back in 2006, when I first started blogging in 2007, when I really grew the business is nobody was out online being like, I just got a camera. I don't know how this works. Or my husband and I went on a date, and we bought our Christmas decorations at PyCon. Save, which is like the equivalent of like, I mean, Walmart is nicer than pickin save. It's like Big Lots. Yeah, I mean, we got it. And I was just openly blogging it like, this was my life. And there was a struggle of working and trying to pursue photography at the same time. And I was just pouring that out. And for some reason, because that level of authenticity was so rare on the internet that people gravitated to it. So a tribe was born without any theory of how to grow that. And then the second part was, once I started having conversations and building a tribe, I was able to create content for the tribe. So two things authenticity and valuable content will be the best thing that you can give to your community, who will then in turn, really support you in the long run.

Kathleen Shannon 18:16
Yeah, I mean, it really sounds like the creativity came first, the expression came first. And the success really followed. And Emily and I have had very similar experiences with the podcast. And you know, early on in the blogging days, I think that we were definitely a part of that movement that was sharing along the way, and accidentally positioning ourselves as experts by just sharing what we were doing and expressing what we were doing along the way. And then we took it to a whole new level with the podcast. Because with blogging, we felt that we weren't able to really share our authentic voice anymore because of, you know, the haters, or not being able to fully say what we mean, or for me, it was a big life change of having a kid and feeling like, the only thing I had to really write about was having a child, but I had so much more to physically talk about. And so the podcast is become such an outlet for expression and authenticity, and a place to be generous and create good content for our listeners who have really great questions to ask. And then the success that followed felt almost too easy, right? Right.

Jasmine Star 19:24
But you were standing, you were standing in the thing that you had been called to do. And it's the same premise. It's to create value. It's to listen and to tell people, I see you, you're here, I hear you, and then create stuff that they find valuable. Like it's the ecosystem but just slightly changed now that you guys are more of like in a podcasting forum, which is fantastic.

Kathleen Shannon 19:44
So now that you're doing branding and marketing is tell me if I'm wrong is a big part of your focus on social media and growing your following as a part of your branding efforts or

Jasmine Star 19:54
Absolutely, absolutely. And so to kind of create a linchpin between I mean, I'm trying to consult 11 years of a journey into like, two minutes. So let's go back. So the good news is my mama is still alive. She's alive and kickin like it's a total miracle. We thank God every single day. In fact, I'm we are podcasting and I'm in Palm Springs for a shoot. And on the way here, she's talking to me, we're just having conversations and I just feel like, dang it, I am so stinking blessed just if I have nothing else than to have a supportive husband and business partner and to have my mom and my parents and family at play as the wind at my back. It's just I'm winning, like at the end of the day, I win.

Kathleen Shannon 20:34
Can I actually ask you about that a little bit, please. You said I think that you went through a bit of a midlife crisis at 25. Because you were given the impression that life might end up 50 Yes, right. Yes. So sometimes whenever I'm getting really stressed out over really small things, I think about the fact that we're all going to die. And sometimes even whenever I start coaching my clients, and they're so freaked out, or scared about doing the thing, I remind them that they're going to die too. And I'm a terrible coach. Whenever I do this, like, Listen, we're all going to die, just do the thing. But I actually do wonder if this sense of mortality has given you liberation or freedom to just go after it.

Jasmine Star 21:22
1000 1,000% Yes, there is an unabashedly on ashamed to say that I make stupid decisions. Happily, I am unafraid to walk away from like that perfect path of, you're going to be a lawyer and to have a corner office in downtown Los Angeles, and you're gonna go on vacation for 8.5 days a year, and you're going to pay somebody to pick up your dry cleaning, and to pick up your kids. And you're going to have a chef at your house, like you can have your life laid out for a perfect path. And simply to say, you know what, I don't own a camera. I have never used a camera, and oh, hey, I'm going to stop going to law school and shoot. Like, that's stupid for all intents and purposes. And they think that when people kind of when I started pivoting my efforts as an entrepreneur from photography, so I started coaching other photographers on how to market and brand their business. And we started scaling this in an online capacity. And then all of a sudden, people who were not photographers are saying, Hey, can you start helping me do this? And so I was like, Who? Me? I'm like, are you sure call the girl behind my right shoulder, because I know you're not talking to me. And yet we were able to do that. And slowly over the last three years, we started realizing that what we wanted to do wasn't scalable on a one to one ratio. And I don't know if that's the thing that I was called to do. I know that I want to create movements around people's businesses, I feel like there are people who are so good at strategy and implementation. And there are people who like to cast vision. I love casting vision, I love saying you are put you have the potential for more. And so our first endeavor, in kind of like a scalable way to grow your brand and your business on social media, we launched an online course called Instant ad and this is Instagram for business. So how can you use your Instagram account to attract more clients to identify your brand to create an experience and overall to grow your profitability? So that's kind of like where the journey has been? And no, nobody gave us permission to do this. And people were like, well, aren't you worried that you're kind of pivoting away from photography? Like your, your? This sounds? Oh, forgive me. Like, when? Okay, fine. I'm just gonna own it. Like, I am the 1% in the industry. And so for all intents and purposes, people on the outside looking at like, why would you ever walk away from that? Right? It's like walking away from the law school situation.

Kathleen Shannon 23:36
But now Yeah, all over again with photography, right? Yes.

Jasmine Star 23:39
And oh my gosh, okay. So here's the thing. So for people who don't know, we are actually podcasting. And I'm on Skype, and we're all on video. And so people can't see is my Puerto Rican hands flying like, Oh, my God. Yes, of course, that so imagine this Puerto Rican was like way overly active hands being like, yes and Amen. This is it. This is it right here.

Emily Thompson 24:00
So I want to talk really quickly about like about what's going on in your mind whenever you make these huge decisions, because we talk about this a whole lot. And a lot of our bosses are in a place where they're leaving, you know, really great, like on paper careers, to do their own thing. So walk me through a little bit through the mindset of like, Alright, I have this thing, it's fine, but I'm done.

Kathleen Shannon 24:25
And I specifically want to talk about it around not leaving law school but leaving photography.

Jasmine Star 24:31
Well, a point of clarification is, once you are a thing, you never stop being that thing. You might not cultivate it as much but I think for the rest of my life, I will always be a photographer, period. I was a photographer before I was air quotes a photographer. I was the girl who loved around a cat like a film camera like in high school in college and just shot photos for the stinking love of it. No rules, no money. So I will always be a photographer. I don't ever think I leave Doing anything, but am I changing my business focus to invest in creative entrepreneurs? Yes. And so in regards to that, like the mindset of is this stupid? Okay, so the the, the journey of a mindset starts off with I have an idea. I feel hopeful for this idea, or other people hopeful for this idea. I'm gonna do this idea and then boom. Oh my god, worst idea of my life I suck. This is terrible. I'm scared I'm going to lose everything I've ever had. Who am I

Kathleen Shannon 25:29
leading up to that insync poster all over again. Yeah, there you have

Jasmine Star 25:35
Jay setia. Say and Justin Timberlake saying, girl, you made the wrong mistake. Bye bye bye, you know.

Unknown Speaker 25:43
So, yeah,

Emily Thompson 25:45
but here's the thing.

Jasmine Star 25:47
I don't want to live my life. And this is the thing that I learned when I was 25. And I saw my mom, I don't want to live my life wondering what if I would rather try and fail miserably. And you look back in my life and say, I did that. I did it and it didn't work. But here's the thing that I know to be true beyond all else. Nothing is for not you do something and it teaches you to be stronger, smarter, you refine your process for the next time. There is no such thing as a failure. It's simply a know what not to do next time period. And I think once you change that, once you say I'm okay, I'm okay making big mistakes. I'm okay walking away from a lot of money. I'm okay having the world think that is the stupidest thing and then rest in it so that when you do become successful and not successful by anybody else's terms. It's not I don't need to leave photography and turnarounds. Okay, guys, I'm making the same amount of money or Hey, guys, I'm making more money. Heck no. It's to turn around and say, Hey, guys, I'm working in my sweat pants. Hey, guys. I'm working from Palm Springs. Hey, guys, I work with my husband. I get to make dinner at home. I get a walk my dog at 4pm that is my version of success. If I'm doing that, hell yes. I'm a success. That rind you guys, I'm rapping I'm rapping y'all.

Kathleen Shannon 27:01
I'm rapping about our new intro to sweet. Okay,

Jasmine Star 27:06
I mean, hey, poor thing you guys want to have anybody listen to be like, what?

Kathleen Shannon 27:12
So I want to pivot our conversation a little bit and go back to this idea that social media can create unrealistic illusions or expectations even of who we are, and how we present to the world. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Jasmine Star 27:28
Yes. And I can talk about it in a very, like real capacity. Because it's something that I I struggle with, I definitely struggle. Because, you know, you started the conversation by saying on the outside and social media and what I had this version and this idea of you. And let me tell you, there's not a day that goes by that I don't think how can I fix that dang impression that people have of me, because I do a ton of research about the social media that I invest in and that I teach others about. And what I can tell you with certainty is that the average engagement rate on an Instagram account is about 3.5%, across the board, and I encourage people to, you know, meet their 3.5% exceed their 3.5%. And not to worry about comparisons, you want the 3.5% for your engaged audience. You don't need 200,000 followers, you need 2000 followers, you need 200 followers who drink your Kool Aid and say, I see you and I want more of you. Cool, great. And a couple days ago, or a couple months ago, as I was putting together this content, I realized that my engagement rate is resting at about 1.5%, which is considerably lower. Yes, I have a lot of followers. Okay, that's fine. But the thing that I'm teaching people that I know that I have the ability to teach and possess, does not rest, because there is something about the way that I come across to people. That seems I don't know, I'm guessing maybe I I don't know, I don't know what that thing is, maybe I foster it, you know, like, maybe I project that my life is better than it is maybe I as a protection mechanism. Because I have been criticized on such a deep level that I keep it a lot more surface now. And so as we transitioned into this past year, my husband who's also my business partner, had to have real conversations of saying, I felt like I got so burned on a public capacity when I was so vulnerable and so real that I started scaling back. And maybe as a default, I put out like, only surface stuff. Whereas before I need to be okay, going back and talking about my picking save days, like I need to rest and be like you are enough in this and those who don't like it move on. But it's just where I am. I don't ever want to be like, this is so amazing. It's a struggle that we all go through and we all have to figure out so that's where I am in it. And the one thing that I will see that's different. We both started off in this journey of blogging all three of us. That's why we were at all to begin with and then you guys have taken another form of long form content podcasting. really define your authenticity. And I kind of went the route, which is the slippery slope of social media. So we have these massive social media followings. I know people are watching. I know people continue to follow, and yet we teeter on this really tough path of how much is too much? And how are people going to respond? When I put something out, when I put like, Oh, we just redid our kitchen, half the audience will be like, That's amazing. And half the audience would be like, look at her showing off, you know,

Unknown Speaker 30:29
so I

Unknown Speaker 30:30
mean, it's kind of

Kathleen Shannon 30:33
Yeah, it is a slippery slope. And it can get so so tricky. And I another thing that I want to point out here, though, is I think that what we're all speaking to right now is that tiny little bit of criticism, and for as many people I mean, I mentioned that we were interviewing you and a few people, even from our being boss staff were lost their mind their love her so much. And she's so genuine and authentic. So it's easy for us to take misunderstandings personally. And I feel like that's what it is. Anytime that we get criticism. It's just a misunderstanding. But one thing I wanted to mention here, and I'm sure I've mentioned it before on the podcast, but so I hate being like, well, Bernie Brown is one of my clients. But I wait, hold on,

Jasmine Star 31:21
let's back that up. Because you're gonna be, you're gonna be tempted to be like, okay, we're going to edit this out. We're going to start where we want it. But no, in the light of authenticity, you guys can cut out certain things. But let me just, let's just get a little bit of a drumroll. Like, let's like, doo, doo, doo. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a client and her name is Bernie Brown. Have you heard her? To me, y'all? Oh, that it is so beautiful.

Kathleen Shannon 31:45
I know. But I just I own it. But I see it a lot only because she's such a mentor of mine and has taught me so much stuff and to set the stage. Okay, I would say about anyone else. Like if, if Emily was a client of mine, I might say, hey, my client, Emily Thompson once told me this brilliant thing. So my client, Rene brown once told me this brilliant thing. I was sitting in her living room working on her website. And I asked her because I was really having a hard time with boundaries. Okay, wait,

Jasmine Star 32:14
hold on. I'm having a moment. And like, literally, you're sitting in Bernie's, Bernie Browns living room, working on her website, and then there's a quiver in my throat. And then I see like a unicorn flutter by and I'm like, Oh my god, there's fairies. She does exist. Rene Brown has a living room like you guys. Like. I love her and love her.

Kathleen Shannon 32:34
Okay, go I'm sorry. It's I was 11 weeks pregnant at the time, too. So I was in the height of feeling really mourning sick. And I thought I'm going to throw up Les Brown. So anyway, I was at the height of a time where blogging was becoming really difficult. I knew that my boundaries were shifting with becoming pregnant, I was starting to get a little bit more random troll hate. I found like a friend had just made it light to me that there was an entire forum dedicated to hating a bunch of bloggers and I was on there a bunch of my friends were on there a bunch of people that I wasn't friends with, but totally admired. Were on there. And I was like, how could anyone say anything bad about these people? So I really did struggle with it. And so I asked her, I said, How do you put boundaries in place? How am I going to put boundaries in place like around having a child and having a personal brand and being so authentic and open. And she's the queen of authenticity. So she told me that you have to know your barriers by testing your barriers. And sometimes you are going to cross the line. But you can always change your mind on where that line is. And you have permission to change your boundaries at any given time. But a lot of times in order to be really wholehearted, and to be really authentic, you're going to have to get right on the edge of that boundary. And it's not always going to feel good. And sometimes you're going to say, Yep, I went over the line there.

Jasmine Star 34:02
Oh, yes. And Amen. You just brought a church down right there. People were in church people you fan in themselves like Yeah,

Kathleen Shannon 34:08
yeah, preach. Go on with your bad sell via Bernie Brown. Right, right. Right, right.

Emily Thompson 34:16
No, I think I think that's really huge. And I know like a braid exercise like a braid braiding exercise is like having your spectrum of like, what it is that you're okay, sharing and not sharing. And I think that, I think that you figure that out by testing it out and seeing what resonates and what doesn't. And I also, I also have to ask you, Jasmine, like, how did things shift whenever you started paying attention? So like, imagine, like, whenever you're blogging and just sharing your pick and save days, and like not really caring so much what the feedback was, but that you were just sharing and doing that creative thing you were meant to do? How did things shift whenever you started thinking about metrics and what was impactful and what wasn't?

Jasmine Star 35:00
Well, it's um, it's kind of like the feeling that when you get a new car, all of a sudden you see your car in that color everywhere on the road, right? So it was popping up in ways that was really unexpected. And once after you, you notice, Oh, I got a new car, I see all these same cars, then all of a sudden you new become immune to it. And I think that by me going through the process, I felt like I was getting farther and farther away from like, my true self. And it wasn't until like, I had this like jolt in my personal life in my professional life, where I was just like, Who are you? Who did you become? Who did you let yourself become as a result of being so freaking concerned of what people thought and said about you?

Kathleen Shannon 35:47
Can you share more about that experience?

Jasmine Star 35:49
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. There's just, it's a really negative thing to have people have an opinion and have half stories and write their own narratives. And there comes a point to where you wonder, how much should I defend myself? How much should I be putting out there? How much should I care and invest? Because if I know that my truth is within me, and I know that I have made mistakes, I have come to reconcile I have I have righted whom I have wronged and everybody else should not care. And yet people do. And so for me, the people that I have grown with are those who actually see a fault who extend unmerited grace, but who also find strength in another person's journey to win their face down in the dust, find a way to say, I am battered, I'm bruised, and I'm hurt, and there's dirt in the middle of my deep and yet, I'm going to stand up, and I'm going to move forward because my options are to stay here, or to move on. And they feel like that's the thing that so many that so many of us as entrepreneurs, when we get kicked, we stay down. And our industries are worse because of it. It is only that an industry can move forward. It is only that we can have resilience. It is only when we get up and rise again that the haters stop. That is it. Because once the you don't get up the haters, one, that's exactly what they want. And you've robbed the world and the universe of your brilliance because of your fear of what people would say.

Kathleen Shannon 37:20
And, you know, I think it's easy to talk about, and I want it to be relatable to all of our listeners, even if they don't have haters, they still have that inner critic, or they still might have that thing that they care so much about what even just three other people think about them, that they're not moving forward and doing the work and getting it done.

Jasmine Star 37:44
Yes, I mean, it's the Let me tell you, let me tell you people like jasmine, I don't understand he could be so resilient. Listen trick, there ain't nothing that a hater can say that is meaner than how I talk to myself, you want to get mean get in my head, you want to say the worst possible things about me get in my head, I will be very, very open that as a life of a creative and as an entrepreneur, there are moments of real like, like darkness, like a lot of the biggest heavyweights, the writers, the the painting masters really struggled with depression. And I have struggled with depression and a very weight. But this preceded me actually being a professional, professional. And so to have somebody to talk to I have an amazing husband, I have an amazing family. But I also invested in a really great person to talk to, to kind of like a calibrate and find who I am as a person and navigate those really harsh things. And the minute I started speaking to myself with kindness, and offering grace to myself, and everyday waking up, I know it sounds totally Fufu and Lala to some people, but what I need to tell myself is today, you will make mistakes, and today you will let people down. But today you are also enough. And in this enoughness You must rest an oath make a promise to yourself that tomorrow you won't make the same mistakes and you won't let the same people down. And to me that is a mantra of that and benevolence and that has allowed me to really grow my business.

Unknown Speaker 39:14

Kathleen Shannon 39:17
We were talking recently Emily and I about this and we were thinking I it feels like one of the most radical things you can do these days is love yourself whenever you're getting this message from media, from Donald Trump from whoever that you as a woman or as a creative or whatever it is that you embody that scares other people. They want you to not feel like you're enough they want you to buy their things they want you to conform in a way that I think our listeners refuse to do.

Jasmine Star 39:53
I read something on Instagram no less, but it was um, it was a post the picture itself said list the top five people you love. And in the caption, it was an ellipse so.dot.if you were not part of the five, you did it wrong. And I was like, oh snap. That's right Jinx girl Jinx. We're going back. Fourth grade, right, though, right? Like, all of a sudden, I was like, chat. I was like, Oh, my top five needs to be me. And then not because I think I'm amazing. But because if I don't love myself, I can't expect others to love me in any sort of capacity.

Unknown Speaker 40:32

Kathleen Shannon 40:34
Well, I think that that's a good thing to transition into whenever it comes to how you wake up with this mantra, and what you're thinking about before you move through your day. What is the day in the life like for you as a creative entrepreneur these days?

Jasmine Star 40:47
Oh, my God, it's so boring. I'm telling you guys, like people think that life is a lot more glamorous or busy or like sometimes, like I really dig Instagram stories. And I played with Snapchat, but I'm like, God, my life is so boring. Like, I'm walking the dog again, guys. Like it's really stinking boring. But I'm very, very, very average day would I'm an early riser. So I'm up daily between link up daily around 515 530. I know it's crazy. I know. I know.

Unknown Speaker 41:13
But y'all can see my

Unknown Speaker 41:16
electively wake up.

Jasmine Star 41:18
My husband's that he's like, it's dark out. He's like, no, literally, it's nighttime, and you're up. And I'm like, I don't know. I don't

Kathleen Shannon 41:24
know. Is your alarm going off? No,

Jasmine Star 41:27
it's a natural inner body alarm. It's called endorphins, boo.

Kathleen Shannon 41:32
Endorphins waking you up? Yes. I need right I tell you, what's your morning routine? Like? Do you have a routine that you

Jasmine Star 41:40
do every morning? Oh, I'm like a stalkers. Dream, I do the same thing. I mean, you know where I'll be at every Tuesday at 10. Like, I'm honest to God. So it's a very average day for me when we're not out shooting, or we're not out like making creating video content for entrepreneurs would be I wake up around 515. And then it takes some time to pray. I meditate I read like wholesome stuff, I do not open an electrical device for at least the first 30 minutes of my day. And then I'll kind of stretch and I bring my computer this terrible, I shouldn't admit it. But it's still my time. So around 6am, I am in bed and I work on my email. So I work on my email every day for one hour. And then I I work all of it that I can in an hour and then anything I don't finish that day gets pushed back to the next day. So I'm very strict with my with my email, and I will check in later on in the afternoon. But if it doesn't require an immediate response, then I respond early the next day, and I create a pattern with people who have correspondence with me to protect my time.

Emily Thompson 42:39
Yes, I need everyone to take a moment rewind, listen to that, again. Because so many of our people struggle with the inbox and like that Inbox Zero, like dreamy unicorn thing that sucks. Because I have recently or in the past, like three to six months transition to this as well, where I don't give a shit about my inbox. Like I will look at it every day, and answer the things that are needed to be answered. But otherwise, I get to work. And everything else sits there until I get to it. And it's fine. And people get trained to understand that you're not going to send immediate responses.

Jasmine Star 43:17
Absolutely. And immediate responses aren't a necessity to running an effective business. People need to understand that somebody else's level of importance should never be your priority. You have your own priority. You protect your family time, your lifetime your business time, and people will understand. And it's funny because now I get people emailing me like I know you won't respond till tomorrow. Oh, tomorrow morning. And I'd like That's right, boo. Get it right. Yes. Um, yeah. So we I emailed to about seven 715 and my husband wakes up, we walk the dog, we come home, we make coffee, I then I map out my day. I'm very, because we have so much to do. And we have a really lean team. It is really myself and my husband. And we that's what we do. And so I map out the day so that he knows. So once I list my tasks for the day, then I sub create a list according to time. So how long is it going to take me for how long? Is it going to take me to blog? How long is it going to take me to plan the blogs for the week? Or when am I going to actually update my social media and then I update Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, am I doing Snapchat that day? Am I gonna incorporate them into sort of stories so I map it all out so that my husband can look at my list and know where I'm going to be what I'm going to be doing that day and where there's latitude to again, walk the dog

Kathleen Shannon 44:28
so I'm okay I need to ask you about this list building situation. Do you have like a master digital project flow going on in Asana and then you have your physical list or all

Jasmine Star 44:41
right all in a group meeting Google Calendar like we make out like total like soulmates like we were destined Romeo and Juliet style. So Google calendar is legitimately how I run my life. And I use Asana on occasion when I'm working on a group team project where we all need to be in I'm in cohorts. But my big techie list building comes in the form of color coded post it notes. So I am old school, I am old school. Like, I like to see it written down. And I there's nothing that gives me more pleasure than to scratch things off my post it notes. So um, yeah, I mean, and there should be a show about me because I hoard post it notes. Like, after I've completed the list, I'm like, I'm just gonna put it on this stack. And then all of a sudden, you see this rainbow stack getting high. And I feel like I'm in Vegas. I'm like, well, look at my stack. Look at how productive I have you guys. Why am I talking about this? Why? Like, Oh, my gosh, why am I actually admitting this.

Kathleen Shannon 45:34
So I love hearing this. I recently had an experience where I had a seven hour layover accidentally, and I wasn't checking my email. But I was mapping out a business plan on paper. And I realized how much it really solidified what I was doing. It gave me focus, it helped that mind body connection of writing something down, made it very real for me and I've, I've created, I've maintained focus around that project since and I've moved it over into a digital place so that my teams can get access to it and work on it. But I want to just bring back this focus on maybe writing things down by hand and how effective that can be?

Jasmine Star 46:16
Well, absolutely. And I feel like definitely the niche that I cater to our creative entrepreneurs like, hey, if a doctor wants to talk to me about social media, I would. But I feel like my niche is definitely creative entrepreneurs. And as a creative sometimes we know that it's more productive to do it digitally. And I'm a full supporter of that. But when you're creative, I'm very visual. So I have to like so for instance, we are working on relaunching Instagram at this Instagram course. And I know that from our last lunch, we really had to fix a lot of things I want to make a better stronger, and instead of me going into like a Google doc or into Asana, I couldn't see the big picture. So I laid it all out in four pieces of computer paper, because why I'm high budget like that, I use computer vision staples, and I got colored markers. And I say, Okay, this needs to be done. And then once I saw it, it was like it was committed to memory. I set my intention on it. And then I was able to put it into a dock and say, we know where we're going team. Let's go there. But I had to see an old school like Hello Kitty pens and markers. I mean, like ya got a front like, this is how I roll.

Kathleen Shannon 47:14
Mm hmm. My new favorite pen is lepin. Have you ever used those?

Jasmine Star 47:19
No, but just the name alone. I'm like, I signed me up

Unknown Speaker 47:23
to talk about them always. Now one of

Kathleen Shannon 47:25
our boss listeners and client of mine. She sent me a lapel pin, a stack of lapins

Jasmine Star 47:30
is this like Mont Blanc? Like are you getting fancy on me? Or is this just a

Kathleen Shannon 47:33
cool hand? I could say lip lip pin. Lots fans love pin lupien. You guys just fancy. She's fancy the client that sent me the lapins. Okay. upgrade my fancy level. Okay, Jasmine, thank you so much. I just want to close by asking you for maybe your top three bits of advice that you would give to someone who wants to be more boss in work and life?

Jasmine Star 48:09
Well, first and foremost, give yourself grace. That's the hardest thing that any boss could do. And understand that you don't have all the answers and understand that it is far better to be the dumbest person in the room than to be the person who talks the most because you know the most you're in the wrong room. So second point would be to run in the direction of your dreams, understanding that your dream changes over time. And you don't need to monetize the dream, the creativity that the desire in your heart should be to simply produce and if the tribe comes around it then you know you're on the right thing. And if not, you simply pivot and run in a new direction. And then lastly, it's to make make decisions as if your life is measured in half beat so if you have 10 years left if you have 20 years left, at what point do you just want to say I don't want to look back and wonder should I have done more? Did I do it all it's so much better to say I did something and made a mistake and learn from it than saying I don't know I could have been I should have been I would have been more had I just tried. Oh,

Emily Thompson 49:15
I love that. Thank you so, so much for coming to chat with us like Girl Crush continues to be solidified. Thank you guys for this.

Jasmine Star 49:27
I'm truly honored. I'm so dang thankful I get really awkward. Like just trying to like say like, I appreciate you guys. I think you're amazing, but I really do. So there I am being my authentic self.

Kathleen Shannon 49:39
you right back at you.

for the month of October, Emily and I will be hanging out live to continue the conversation every Wednesday afternoon. And we'd love for you to hang out with us. In these free Hangouts. We'll be talking about money authenticity online and redefining success. We'll also be answering any questions you might have about being Boss in work in life. Learn more and reserve your spot for these hangouts at being boss club slash events. Thank you for listening to being boss. Please be sure to visit our website at being boss club where you can find Show Notes for this episode, listen to past episodes and discover more of our content that will help you be boss in work and life. If you liked this episode, please share it with a friend and show us some love by leaving a rating and review on iTunes.

Emily Thompson 50:28
Do the work. Be boss and we'll see you next week.