Emily Thompson 0:01
Welcome to Being Boss, a podcast for creatives, business owners and entrepreneurs who want to take control of their work and live life on their own terms. I'm your host Emily Thompson. And this is a special episode, in that it's one of the last episodes of Being Boss as you know it. I'm joined by my friend and previous co hosts Kathleen to dive into what's happening here, how I've come to my decisions and begin peeking into what's next. This is the first of the final five episodes that will take you on a journey of what's worked, kind of work and hasn't worked in this business, in this industry and economical environment. And what's next for Being Boss. You can find all the tools, books and links we reference on the show notes at www.beingboss.club. And if you liked this episode, be sure to subscribe to this show and share it with a friend. And you should still subscribe because this is the end as we know it. But we're not done.
Emily Thompson 0:57
Kathleen Shannon is the co founder and former co host of the beam boss podcast joining me for the first 240 ish episodes of this show with several one off episode since. Kathleen is a partner and creative director at Braid creative a branding agency she founded with her sister over 10 years ago, Kathleen has always lived by capturing, shaping and sharing who she is whether that's with a blog post, a podcast or on social media. Hi, Kathleen.
Kathleen Shannon 1:26
Emily Thompson 1:28
Are you ready?
Kathleen Shannon 1:29
I'm ready. Let's do this.
Emily Thompson 1:31
Ready for some of the last episodes of what the world knows as the Being Boss podcast?
Kathleen Shannon 1:36
I mean, have you told them already that this is happening?
Emily Thompson 1:41
I mean, I think I'm going to do an intro to this particular episode where I'm like, here's the stick. But I do also just want to throw it in here that that's one of the reasons why you come back for a little while, because yeah, we haven't been very clear about that. I was telling Kathleen a couple of months ago that, that this was coming. And she was like, Well, let me come back and play as much as I can. And I was like, Come on, girl. Let's do it.
Kathleen Shannon 2:04
Yeah, I mean, might as well.
Emily Thompson 2:06
How are you feeling about it?
Kathleen Shannon 2:07
Full circle. I mean, you know, I feel like I'm thinking a lot about what I've learned from doing Being Boss and leaving Being Boss and our relationship that's come from it. And there's so many things that I could talk about. And I'll talk about those maybe on our next episode that we record on this. But really, at the end of the day, I feel really excited for you. And I feel like nothing is permanent. Everything is always changing. If you're always trying to fit into what's been done and where you found success, and you know trying to like just do the same thing over and over and over again, you're going to stop growing, you're not going to be pushing yourself into what could be you're closing the door to new opportunities, because you're scared of opening those doors, right? Because you gotta close another door. Here I am with my terrible metaphors again.
Emily Thompson 3:06
I think it may be what we're most known for actually, of all the things that's actually it. No, I think you're right, I think or I know, you're right, you're absolutely right in saying those things. I think, or I see people do it all the time, they do find success and one little thing and they refuse to shift and change even though the world does around them. And I think everyone will see over the next couple of conversations that is that that really is what this keeps coming back to is the world is different. And it's time for a change. And I'm not going to sit here and continue spinning my wheels or wishing the world was different or whatever, I'm going to make necessary changes to move in the directions where things just make sense.
Kathleen Shannon 3:49
And I can't lie like there's a little part of me that's kind of glad for me in a selfish way. Because I'm not gonna have any more FOMO about it. You know, there is with you having continued on with it where I can't help but wonder did I make the right choice and I've been really secure in my choice of having you buy me out in 2020. But yeah, of course, there's moments where I missed you and I missed what we created and I missed working together and I missed the Being Boss community and the vacations and all the things that we did. So it kind of reminds me of you know, whenever I got divorced from my first husband, we still had a house together for many, many years, even after the divorce. And whenever we finally sold it, it was the last thing kind of connecting us it felt like such a weight off of my shoulders and this isn't that because you and I still have a really tight relationship but not owning anything together anymore is kind of I don't know it's like it's it's just kind of feeling really clean slate in a way because I'm so tied to what Being Boss is and I'm so are tied to, you know, as having created that together that for it to finally be changing into something else completely. It feels like a release of sorts. What do you think about that?
Emily Thompson 5:14
Kathleen Shannon 5:14
Am I an asshole for saying that?
Emily Thompson 5:16
No, I love that for you. No, well, not for that reason. Just kidding, you're not an asshole. No, no, I think that's lovely. And I'm glad that you feel that way. I'm glad that you have maintained, I mean, obviously, you have. But I'm glad that you've maintained such a connection to it that that you can feel that and that the feelings have remained so good that you're not like, it's not like a It's not like a sort of an angry release. But just like you've missed it. And there has been a bit of FOMO. And now you don't have to worry about it, we can just move on. And you know, do whatever we're doing. So I think that's lovely. I'm glad those are your feelings.
Kathleen Shannon 5:54
Yeah. So how do you want to do this episode? Should we start with like a little bit of a recap, starting with maybe when you bought me out? Because I would say that was one of the big pivotal moments of change for Being Boss, and it keeps, you know, there have been iterations and changes along the way. So, you know, whenever you bought me out and 2020, did you struggle with deciding whether or not to keep it or to change it more drastically, then? What was your vision at that point?
Emily Thompson 6:25
Yeah, I think this is a really great place to start. Because as I've made these decisions, and move forward, and I do, I also want to throw in here for like, we'll talk about this a couple of times, but like I made the decision that Being Boss would be making a very big pivot. And we'll talk more about what that looks like. And all the things for like, this is going to be a big unraveling conversation over the next couple of episodes. But But and one that I hope that I know will be woven with so many important lessons for anyone doing business, which is probably most of you listening. So I've gone back to that time many times over the past year, because a year ago, I made the decision that Being Boss is about to start making a very big transition out of what it is either to no longer exist or into something completely different. So it's been a year that I've been sitting on this and sort of making my maneuverings, and it really was going back to those conversations that I was having with you and with David and with myself more than anybody in 2019, 2020 when we started a partial buyout in 2019, finished it and 2020. Those two episodes in 2019, about the burnout and buyout were really probably the last time we sort of had a strategic conversation as to what's happening at Being Boss, like how all of this is shaped up and why we're making the decisions that we're making, et cetera.
Emily Thompson 7:49
And at that point, I remember making sort of a loose promise to myself. Not, like a like a like, I swear this is how it's going to, you know, happen. But it was more like I I'm committing myself in some capacity to giving Being Boss, a good hard go alone for five years. Right. That was that was like my marker. And now in 2023. That was four years ago, like I'm getting I'm very much so getting to the strategic end of something that I sort of said to myself way back then. And so that's been a really big part of it, as as I have gone through the past couple of years, has been really looking at that five year timeline and going, you know, we're getting closer and closer, what is this going to look like? What's working, what's not working all of those things. So it's four years in, I wanted to keep it because I wasn't done yet. And you were which totally honored and love that for you. I remember you several times saying like I've said it, I've said everything that I need to say.
Kathleen Shannon 8:55
Emily Thompson 8:56
And I will say that like I've finally gotten to that point, like I have felt that very much. So over the past couple of are probably the past year. But in 2019 I didn't feel that. I felt like I still had some things I wanted to say and some things that I wanted to do. And I just needed to I needed a bit more time to do it. And at that point as well, Almanac was still a baby. And because I wasn't gonna go get a job by any means. I was going to stay in the business that was doing the thing that being Being Boss, while I strategized a transition into Almanac. So it was really a way for me I was buying myself time basically, I was literally buying myself four, five, six years to make Almanac into the business that I wanted it to be while having the fallback of Being Boss doing the thing. And it allowed me to keep a brand that we had already created and put so much equity into it. To do the things that I most wanted to do, and that was masterminds, events, and an online community, those were the three things. Whenever I bought the buyout, that was to be the business model, it was something we had done all of those things for a long time, in some capacity or another. Whenever I was imagining, you know, shutting Being Boss down at that point, that's what I was gonna go do until Almanac was big enough to support me in the way that I wanted it to. But by keeping Being Boss, I was able to do that under the brand that we had already built. So I had given myself five years, I wanted to do masterminds events, and the online community. And that's what I did.
Kathleen Shannon 10:43
And those three things were all deal breakers. For me, you had that vision, probably even before the buyout. And that was part of me, like we that was probably the most contentious part of our separation, which is that vision for what's next. And I was like, I'm just here to podcast, I and I had so much anxiety around the events part of it, and the online community, and especially going into 2020 things, just online, we're getting really contentious and hostile and volatile, you know. So it's interesting how moving along in your journey, as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, as a person in the world, in relationships, how it can kind of change past events a little bit like it can change your, it can reform your memories around things, right. So like, for example, whenever you have a kid, it kind of makes you take a look back at your own childhood and what that was, and you remember things a little bit differently through the lens of who you are now.
Kathleen Shannon 11:45
So one thing I just want to mention from my part of the journey of Being Boss and that buy out and all of it is I was under so much anxiety. And now having been on anti anxiety medicine and getting some therapy for a little bit. I can say I think that part of it, of me leaving and the buyout and all of it was just crippling anxiety, like the anxiety of like, what, what if someone gets hurt at one of our events? Or what if we hurt someone's feelings in the online community. What if there's a big, there's a lot of like, just what is wrapped up in a lot of fear. And it was fear that you didn't have. You had just the total confidence going into it that it was going to work and be amazing. And it did work for you. And it was amazing. So I'm curious if through the lens of having grown, maybe even since the beginning of Being Boss, but specifically since let's say 2020, since that was also kind of like a there's a before and after, whenever it comes to 2020 in a being boss sense. And then also in a world and global sense. So I'm curious to hear from you has who you've become right now informed any of your memories on that buyout or any of your feelings on Being Boss over the past three years.
Emily Thompson 13:04
Great question. Yes and no. Yes or no. And that I feel like so much of me is the same me or especially like how I go at Being Boss and the things that I've wanted from it and how we've moved forward. Yes, in that one of those things was events. Right. And immediately upon almost immediately upon starting a partial buyout. Well, immediately I launched a conference, sold a lot of tickets, paid a whole lot of money to a whole lot of vendors, and was planning a whole ass conference in April of 2020. And I had to cancel it a month before, lost enough money to make most people barf in their mouth. Right, within the course of a week. And I remember that being the point where you were like, No, for real, though. I'm all the way out.
Kathleen Shannon 14:03
Emily Thompson 14:03
Right. Because that was like that was a really ugly time, I think in the history of Being Boss and not one that had anything to do with anything other than a global pandemic that everyone was affected by, right. And then for the next four years, no events. So that big piece, which was a big piece for marketing, for revenue, for community building, for really supporting all the other things that I wanted to do was immediately cut out of even like real possibility because I I was never going to do an event in 2021 that was going to be a super spreader. Like I was not trying to be the first one out of the conference game again, even vacations and going to some of the places that I was going I was hearing stories of people going out in the world for the first time and losing their shit. Like right like unable to control themselves in public places where booze may be flowing free.
Kathleen Shannon 14:57
Emily Thompson 14:58
And things like that and Like, so I actually got all of your anxiety around events. After that.
Kathleen Shannon 15:07
Emily Thompson 15:08
And the team has tried to get me right many times over the past couple of years to do another conference or a vacation or whatever. We've set dates, half a dozen times. And every time it gets time to actually doing it, I cannot do it. I just cannot. And part of it's like PTSD from losing all of that money. And part of it too, is I don't want to be responsible for humans anymore, out in the real world, not on that scale.
Kathleen Shannon 15:38
Emily Thompson 15:38
And so I definitely gained a lot, I gained all of it. I took all of your anxiety around events and instilled it in myself in a way that has, has kept me from moving forward with like the number one reason that I wanted to keep Being Boss, which has made this decision in this time and space even easier, because I did want to do this thing. And now that we're a couple years into it, like I could probably start doing some things now and I've done small retreats and I love doing those. But when it comes to doing large scale ovens, I have literally zero desire.
Emily Thompson 16:18
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Kathleen Shannon 17:19
So I'm curious to hear more about the being boss business model, because whenever we were doing it at the beginning, the business model was centered around podcasting. And then as you bought me out in 2020, that business model was going to pivot and kind of shift around online community events, masterminds. How else has the model changed? And how does like the podcasting arm of it still? Like, how has that changed as well?
Emily Thompson 17:47
Yeah, so actually, in a lot of ways, it's very much so the same, it's still very much so podcast sponsors. And in the next episode, in particular, we're going to talk about all how podcasting has changed, because I think this is probably one of the most facet, one of the most fascinating pieces of sort of being in this place, in this business, in this moment is I have insight into the podcasting industry, unlike most people, and I'm very excited to dive into that and sponsor models has been.
Kathleen Shannon 18:16
I can not wait to talk about this.
Emily Thompson 18:18
It's been a huge part of it, a huge part of it's gonna be it's gonna be a juicy on everybody. I got some tea to spill. For sure. So I'm going to we're going to be talking about that. But sponsors have have stayed the majority of our business model. So revenue generation, that has stayed very much so the same, for better or worse, because there are definitely there have been pros and cons to that. Community has made up a bit of it ongoing, I'd say, you know, 10, 15, 20%, sort of fluctuating here and there depending on what we're doing. And then obviously, events have been zero. And we've done some other things, we still have CEO day kit, we've played with a couple of other things over time, and just sort of seeing what works and doesn't work. But the hardest part about this, and I didn't really recognize it until we couldn't do them anymore. And there was a sort of an interesting fluctuation because in 2020, when we lost the ability to do events, everyone needed community, right. And so the online community actually did really well in that time in a way that I don't think it would have in quite the same capacity because everyone was stuck at home and needed a space to connect with other people. So the community did really, really well in 2020 as we lost events, but then it became really obvious to me how much our events had bolstered both our podcast and our community over the years, how much that like really lended to marketing and growth of the audience and of the community and all of these things. And so by cutting that arm off, I was walking around limbless I lost a very important part not only of revenue generation in that one sort of arm itself, but in how that one arm lended itself to the podcast and its growth to the community in its growth. I had never really seen or felt how big the impact was, until the impact was no longer there.
Kathleen Shannon 20:24
Interesting. So, I want to hear more about Almanac. So Almanac has been in business for how many years now?
Emily Thompson 20:33
Five years. 2018.
Kathleen Shannon 20:36
So since 2018.
Emily Thompson 20:38
Kathleen Shannon 20:39
How has that changed since 2020. And earlier, you did say that Being Boss was buying you some time to kind of build up that business, what has happened since 2020, for Almanac?
Emily Thompson 20:50
Lots of things, lots of things has happened at Almanac and all really good things. And, again, I always saw the buying of Being Boss, or like the full acquisition of it as buying time for Almanac to do its thing. And that five years that I get that timeline that I gave myself was really like I'm going to need five years for Almanac to be where it is that I want it to be. It was less so of like my interest in Being Boss, though. I mean, that definitely played a part in it. And more so of a strategic like, I'm going to give myself five years to make Almanac amazing. So that financially personally, I can make that transition in a way that felt good. And we expected Almanac to take the biggest hit in 2020. We immediately furloughed employees, just to sort of like make sure that we were really hunkering down in the way that we needed to took them off furlough way quicker than we expected. Because everyone was sitting at home shopping. And everyone just needed to pray on some rocks that the world would be set right again, or whatever, or like needed candles, because they're working at home and their cat smell weird or like whatever.
Emily Thompson 21:57
Like we were getting all kinds of like all kinds of customers coming to us and in a way that we never had. So online sales for us in 2020, where amazeballs, as well as 2021. And we were doing some things like you know, more online crystal parties that really took off in 2020. And it's something that we're still doing now. We stayed in our office space for a long time, we were doing shop by appointments, we were just doing all of these things to keep ourselves going and it was working. But also the environment that we were in was really playing into our success as well. People were at home, not shit else to do. Buying candles and crystals. Loved that for them. And for us, for sure. And then in 20 what was it 2021 I guess we got the opportunity to open a small shop. It is the space that I'm currently sitting in to record this episode and one of the cutest neighborhoods in Chattanooga, I remember going to the grocery store one day and looking over and there was a big sign in the window, that this space is tiny space that used to have an olive oil business in it. I came in here lots of times along the way. And it was one of the businesses that shut down during the pandemic, early pandemic. And so this space was available. So we called the rent was hysterically cheap. And we just got it, even though like it made no sense. We're still in the middle of a global pandemic. How are we going to open a shop I also remember tweeting at that point. It was the week that Russia invaded Ukraine. And I remember tweeting that, like, Would anybody sign a lease right now? And everyone was like, Absolutely not.
Kathleen Shannon 23:41
Emily Thompson 23:43
Actually, that's a lie. I think we actually signed that lease that was the second space. That was the second space that we signed a five year lease. So okay, first space though, we move into this small space. And business just takes off because that summer everyone wanted to like get out into the world again. And we went back and forth in August whenever the that other variant came around. We shut down the shop and did appointment only. And so there was only one or two people masks required in the store. In Tennessee, we were one of the last places that required masks and got yelled out all the time. And y'all I loved it, like come at me bro. Absolutely. So like we were doing physical business in a really hard time. Nine months into having this space. We got the opportunity to move across the street in my dream space, which we've talked about here on the show before I had wanted this space since before I had Almanac it was like 10 years ago I was coming to Chattanooga shopping in this cute little store in this space on the main tourist strip in Chattanooga heard they were closing down another sort of pandemic casualty.
Emily Thompson 24:53
And we snatched it as quickly as we possibly could. We did sign that five year lease the week that Russia invaded Ukraine. And I did not know if that was a good decision or not. But it was all happening so easily that I kind of had to. So Almanac went from, you know, barely supporting two or three of us to now there's a team of a dozen of us doing the thing we are selling so many rocks and candles, were producing new product lines, we are growing online, we are doing the thing in a way that feels so good and so easy, especially compared to what Being Boss has become. That it's, it's like night and day, the two companies in some really interesting ways. So Almanac has really grown I, I thought in 2019, when I was making that call, that it would be five years that in five years, I would open a store, not in two and a half years, I would open a store nine months later open a bigger store. And then in five years, maybe looking at store number two at some point in the near future. Like I had no idea that Almanac would grow as quickly as it did. And especially while I was straddling two businesses, right, right. But things happen. And so we just made it there a little faster than expected. So it's been growing sometimes without even trying, which I love. And I'm watching things work at Almanac in a way that they do not work at Being Boss. And that's a really interesting difference between online and offline business these days, which I will be talking about in another episode to around this because that's a really interesting insight that I think everyone needs to know what I know or understand what I see. Because it is it is like night and day between the two businesses and Almanac has really done its thing.
Kathleen Shannon 27:03
I'm curious to hear more about Being Boss just felt like such a personal project for both of us, we were very much front and center the faces of it. And I know for me since leaving Being Boss, it's kind of in really nice to be a little less front facing, you know, like, I will always love a camera, I will always love kind of being the center of attention. But since leaving Being Boss for me, I mean a couple of things. One, it's been really nice to just kind of go behind the scenes a little bit more and just to get my hands in and do the work on branding and graphic design and all of the things that I'm best at. So I'm curious to hear more from you about that as it relates to Almanac. Are you front and center whenever it comes to Almanac or are you looking forward to being a little bit more behind the scenes? What's that experience going to be like? Or what do you imagine that experience is going to be like for you?
Emily Thompson 27:59
Yeah, it's not even what is what it's going to be like it's a playing factor in all of this 100% And it's something that really sort of came to a head for me last year. Last year we were at Being Boss sort of playing with a couple of options still trying to like skirt around doing events. I was like guys I'm not doing events we're gonna do other things like what are we going to do and I was like you know everyone's always want a group coaching like would it be like if we did a group coaching. Team was super into it we did it we sold it, launch did not go as well as I would have liked it was a really great time. Super glad we did it had went through two really great groups. But what I realized at that point and it was so stark because Almanac the store was probably six months into being if if even that at that point. And it was very clear to me my role in the two businesses and just how different they were of like yes, I'm the owner, I'm strategizing I'm like planning and putting things in place and all of these things but at Being Boss and I've mentioned this before around here at some point at Being Boss because it's still a very personal brand and I've very intentionally taken my face away from the brand as much as I can. Because it is still a very personal brand over the years but at Being Boss to sell anyone anything more or less. I have to sell you two times. I have to sell you on me first and then I have to sell you on the thing which is a lot of selling in general.
Emily Thompson 29:41
At Almanac you're just gonna buy a rock.
Kathleen Shannon 29:47
Emily Thompson 29:48
I mean, there is a vibe for sure. And there is a product but it is not the same thing. And so about a year ago it really came became really clear to me that I being boss, I am here selling all the things. And I do have helped with like selling sponsorships, but even then it's like my face on that podcast avatar, it is my voice on the thing, it is me, you know speaking the ads and all of these things. Whereas at Almanac, no one cares who I am or what I do. No one, like, and I'm not selling anything unless I am doing a shift in the store, which happens maybe once a month, right. And so this, the entire business of Almanac is constantly going regardless of how really involved I am. Whereas at Being Boss, I am there like chugging it along constantly. And it's something that I see in all of my friends who have very personal brands or who are coaches or service providers or whatever it may be, there is this whole other level of being in the business that is required that I don't have to do it Almanac. And instead, I can use all that time strategizing, and actually doing things that are moving the business forward in a way that makes me feel more impactful in that business than I do in this one, which is kind of trippy to think about whenever you think about a show that has like 12 million downloads and like, you know, on top of all things, whatever it may be, I don't feel very impactful here. And I know that like there are some like self limiting beliefs around like, and I probably wouldn't feel that way if I were actually interacting with our audience at events.
Kathleen Shannon 31:26
Emily Thompson 31:26
But there is still a difference of I know that the work that I do at Almanac is going to move us forward whereas I have been explaining it for years at Being Boss, I feel like I'm constantly pulling teeth.
Kathleen Shannon 31:38
Emily Thompson 31:39
Over and over again. So that has definitely played into it. I feel like a better business owner at Almanac more capable of doing the work that I am here to do as a business owner at Almanac than I am at Being Boss.
Emily Thompson 31:57
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Kathleen Shannon 33:08
That has certainly been my experience at Braid Creative in the past three, four years since leaving Being Boss, our business has grown times 10. Since I've been able to purely focus just on Braid Creative. So there is something to be said for you know diversifying in business and I'm sure that Almanac is not going to be your last business, you know, but there is something to be said for being able to put all of your focus in one place. So how do you imagine putting all of your focus into Almanac like, what do you imagine your days are going to look like?
Emily Thompson 33:45
Well, I've actually been experiencing that a little bit more over the past probably month or two. Because you know, as we do these episodes, I batch things and so actually haven't been recording and like not even strategizing for really next episodes because I knew we were coming to the end of what this is at this moment. And so I've really been able to just be at Almanac and do my job there. And my god, the fun things that we have done. I've been able to dive into some really amazing projects, and really make some great impact on what we're doing and do things that are legitimately fun. Like I'm not reinventing wheels, and I'm not fixing things that shouldn't be broken. But because online business is what it is. These days everything is breaking all the time. Nothing works the same way. I'm able at Almanac to be a little more slow and a little more intentional and way more creative and purposeful with what I'm doing and it feels amazeballs, like really great and my calendar is so much more empty, and or empty of meetings and things and so much more like full of like large blocks of time where I can do creative work that I love it so far, absolutely love it.
Emily Thompson 35:04
And the focusing really is a big part for me. You know, we talked earlier in the year, our words of the year, and I very intentionally chose my word focus, because I knew this was coming. And I knew that I needed to set that word for myself to like, hold myself accountable to doing this because I say all this, and I love Being Boss. I love what we've built here. I have held on to this thing this long, because I don't want to let like there is a part of me that does not want to let what we have been doing go. But if I could focus my energy on Almanac, Holy shit, like, that would be amazing, like the impact that I could make in that company. Yes, 10 times growth. Absolutely, I will take that for sure if a little bit of focus will take me there. And I think it can for sure. So I've definitely, and I want to say too, that that's new for me as well. Of over the past year or so, and it's funny because I even think now I'm about at the age that you were like, in years, when you were like I can't. Like I don't want to split my focus. Like I don't have the energy for it like I'm there. And I don't have the energy to split my focus between two things anymore, my like capacity to multi plan has shrunk so much. And not even the capacity has shrunk. That's part of it. But like I don't even want to, I don't want to split my attention in that way anymore. I want to focus. So that's a bit of a, I'll call it a growth thing for me is that I want to focus on just one thing, both because I like personally want to. And secondly, I want to make the impact that I can make when I do.
Kathleen Shannon 36:59
So I know that big changes can for lack of better words, like hurt feelings, you know, like it can, especially the feelings of our listeners, right. And so I know that our listeners felt a certain way whenever I left. And I know that listeners will feel a certain way hearing these big changes coming up. And I just want to acknowledge that it might hurt their feelings. And that's valid, like it's totally valid because we have created parasocial relationships. You know, like, your voice has been in their ears now for five, six years, however long it's been, they've come to know you, they've come to know us. And so I think that it's really valid to be a little bit sad. Whenever my favorite podcasters stop podcasting, I'm like, oh, like, I'm gonna miss them. You know. And there's also the real relationships of all of the people that you and I have helped through either reading our book, or buying the CEO Day Kit or being in coaching with us or coming to the Being Boss vacations and having a really good time. And I suppose what I want those listeners to know is that this big change has nothing to do with them. It's it doesn't have anything to do with them in a way that like you were making, like we're breaking up with you. Right, like so it has everything to do with you, Emily, and kind of your vision for what's next. So I'm curious to hear, do you have anything that you want to say to listeners whenever it comes to making this huge change? And what that's going to mean for them even?
Emily Thompson 38:44
I'm not breaking up with the audience by any means. And there are plans, right? I've one of the things that got me to this place. And one of the reasons too that I want it to be in Almanac so much more is this idea of assets, right of business assets. So we've been working for being or excuse me, at Almanac, I have a bank account made of crystals, right? Like I have physical assets that are worth dollar bills. And at Being Boss, one of the things that really got me a couple of years ago was that we have no physical assets. I've been, we've been busting our ass for almost a decade, almost a decade and what do we have to show for it? I mean, the people are amazing, amazing friendships for real. But like on a spreadsheet, if I were to go to accountant and they were be like, What are your assets? Like? I own a couple of laptops. Right? I got a really nice microphone. But there is like this digital asset that is this podcast feed, right this podcast feed and all of its subscribers and downloads and like meta stuffs, right is my most valuable asset in this company.
Emily Thompson 39:55
It's not 100% going away, there are plans and we'll be getting into that in the next couple of episodes. So I do want to say that. And it is one because this is an asset. And two because creating content in this way, is something that I have done for so long, but I can't imagine completely not doing it. Here's where the big changes are coming, though, is I am done with two industries. Done with them.
Kathleen Shannon 40:22
Let's hear it.
Emily Thompson 40:24
One is podcasting down with the podcasting industry. period, when we come back, what we're going to be doing is going to be so different. And so I don't give a fuck. When it comes to like, what is standard in the podcasting industry, and what sponsors expect from you in the podcasting industry. Like, I'm going to come back and do this in the way in a way that we've really never done it, which I'll talk about that a bit more, so I'm not leaving you. What I am leaving is podcasting as we know it. Two the other industry that I'm leaving, is this, like, small business help industry.
Kathleen Shannon 41:11
Emily Thompson 41:13
In a way that I have felt for a couple of years, and it has less to do with. I mean, it really just, it has everything to do with a couple of things. One, I said it, right, if you need any help on anything, there is an episode here somewhere where you can get exactly how I think about it. You want to talk about sales, or marketing, or branding, or hiring or firing, or like any hundreds of episodes, millions of downloads, it is here, it is absolutely here for you. And I can't keep having those conversations over and over again. Or I'm gonna go mad. Another is just like, who I'm playing in my sandbox with, not impressed. Not interested, don't want to hang out with these folks, don't want to be associated with most of them. I don't want to be in the same crowd who's selling blueprints and courses with absolutely no value, it has made my job impossible to do what I want to do, to do what I think you deserve when everyone else is under selling me but also delivering zero value, or very little value in a way that I don't want to play here anymore. I want to go play with rocks and crystals, I want to build manufacturing processes. And I want to grow my local like, like merchant council for my neighborhood. And I want to do those things that's going to bring a different kind of impact with people who are my peers that I respect in the things that they're doing. And so it's not about quitting my audience. It's about quitting these two, industries, and instead focusing on both creating content in a way that allows me to feel like I'm being creative and creating something for myself and my audience, not my sponsors. And even more for myself than my audience, which I think is everyone's like, what, you're not going to be listening to your audience slash customers. Correct. For a very long time.
Kathleen Shannon 43:20
You know that is like, my number one branding tenant, like, I know that so many branding agencies are like, don't you cannot think about yourself, like you just have to look at your dream customer and what it is that they want. And I wholeheartedly disagree. I think that whenever you are passionate and revved up about what you're doing, it will attract the people that it needs to attract.
Emily Thompson 43:41
Kathleen Shannon 43:42
So amen to that.
Emily Thompson 43:44
Yeah. So basically, if you're, if your feelings are hurt, I'm Sorry, if you're not paying my bills, I don't care. I'm glad that you created some sort of attachment. If you are not like paying for this content, or part of the community or bought CEO Day kit or any of those things like not you don't I don't need to hear about it. If you are part of my community, like my community, you are like part of the clubhouse you are a CEO Day user, all of those things. Keep listening because there are some fun things coming for sure. And the goal is not to like leave like the community will still exist for at least some time beyond this. What is absolutely changing is this show. This show is making a big pivot. And it's because I want to get back to creating content in the way that I most want to create it. And I want to do content that I feel good about in a space that I feel good about.
Emily Thompson 44:42
Also, my team is here for this because my team has been here helping me fix the broken wheels. Right, put out the fires, figure out the strategies in this small business space enough that they see that we're just spinning wheels. There is too much competition playing too many stupid games, for anything of value to stand out at all. And so whenever we go whenever we make the switch between Being Boss and Almanac, because they're working on both things, they love working on Almanac stuff. Because the things we do matter, needles actually move. And I've seen this across, you know, well, yeah, we'll talk about this more. But there's this difference between online offline and this moment. And like, where you're sort of straddling that bridge, if you are whatever, also, but like, niching, is something that has come up for me so much over the past couple of months. I know. I know, you have always been a huge fan of niching. I think relatively recently, you were like, No, Jane of all trades, right?
Kathleen Shannon 45:51
I go back and forth constantly. I'm like, if you want to make money, you gotta niche if you want to learn how to be well rounded, and be able to do it all yourself, as a business owner, you've got to figure out how to do it all. So I see, actually, you know what, I see a case for both. And it's really just comes down to what it is that you want, and what your vision for yourself is, I think you can do it both ways. But if you want to make money, like real money, you got to niche.
Emily Thompson 46:19
You got a niche. And I feel like for too long being bought, so actually no, not even too long. Whenever Being Boss started, we were niche. Right? We were
Kathleen Shannon 46:28
Emily Thompson 46:29
Two female podcasters, which like, did not exist on the top charts of like business podcasts on Apple, we were the first ones. Two female podcasters talking about business to creatives. No one else was doing that. We were like, first out the gate, we were the niche. Now everyone in their brother is doing the same thing for the same people in the same way saying the exact same things. More or less, right? We are no longer a niche. We are just one in the sea. Right?
Kathleen Shannon 47:02
Emily Thompson 47:02
So the goal now is to re-niche is to stop being for all creative business owners, stop talking about all the topics for creative business. And instead get in there with our little wedge that we're already in the business.
Kathleen Shannon 47:18
Yeah, just be the business.
Emily Thompson 47:22
Yeah. Just be the business and talk about things. Talk about things that we're seeing moves the needle, because that's actually been a this lesson for me came through the past, probably 18 months, the team and I've been doing a lot of work in search engine optimization, like a whole lot of work, and SEO, both for Being Boss and on Almanac. And we started at Being Boss. Being Boss is the more sort of well founded brand we've been here longer a website has more content, like we should be able to do the work there and get all the rankings we want with, you know, little to no effort more or less ideally. And so we started, you know, identifying what we were going to work on, we started doing it, nothing was happening at all. And so we started diving into it and really like too much competition, like I'm up against Forbes and Entrepreneur and Inc Magazine. And like all if we're talking branding or marketing or and that's just the couple big fish, there's like 40 million other smaller fish of varying sizes along the way. And we're just one. Almanac, we've been doing some SEO work. I feel like I'm cheating. Like, I'm not. I'm just doing the work. But I'm doing it in such a niche. That competition is not there and not playing on my level because crystal folks don't know SEO on the same level that a previous or like current I guess business podcaster knows SEO. And so literally, for the team watching us do work in one brand and it not matter and that literally not matter versus doing work in another brand and it literally making us dollar bills has been the craziest thing to see and in a way that I thought that getting them to transition over to Almanac was gonna be hard. And, and I will say like Corey editing this who you all have heard from sad about this. He's he's probably more sad about this than I am. Because Corey has been here from the beginning. And he'll stay he's gonna continue doing all the things that he's doing.
Emily Thompson 49:36
But it's been easier to talk them into a transition, because they see that when they work on things at Almanac out of this podcast in small business, not niche anymore, that their work actually matters in a way that it doesn't over here at all. So it's been it's been a wild ride and one that like When I think about what my feelings are around this is so maybe past time like I'm so at peace with like these being the last couple episodes of this like version of Being Boss. I will miss it I think a little bit but like all in all, it's time and if I hang on for another second I've hung on too late or long or whatever.
Kathleen Shannon 50:26
Amen. Do the work, be boss.
Emily Thompson 50:32
And done and done. Well actually before we are done I do want to let everyone know that Kathleen is coming back for one more episode we're gonna talk about podcasting industry. This one I think could get a little juicy I want to talk about so think about like, you know, our times as sponsors and like content creation.
Kathleen Shannon 50:52
Oh I have so many things to say probably, for me the perspective coming from being a podcast listener and you from being a Podcast Producer and both of us having done all of the things with podcasting and hitting the right place at the right time and sponsor Yes, I cannot wait to dive in on this one.
Emily Thompson 51:11
It's gonna be a go and sneak peek it the podcast industry is cannibalizing itself.
Kathleen Shannon 51:16
Emily Thompson 51:17
Cannot wait to share more on that one. So definitely make sure you come back for the next one. And then I have two more episodes with my business besties about more of like, what this decision has been like and what the future of this show and where my efforts are going is going to be because we've talked about the end and this is the end this is the end of Being Boss as we know it 100% I'm done in a way that I feel really great about and I feel like I've given you all everything I've got everything I've got, but I'm not done. And this podcast feed is not done and I will not diverge completely. But I will be focusing niching in on an area that I don't think is going to surprise anybody. Basically, once we actually get there. So thanks Kathleen for coming in and digging this out of me. That sounds disgusting. I can't wait for the next one. It's gonna be I think quite the ending.
Kathleen Shannon 52:22
Thanks for having me.
Emily Thompson 52:25
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