Managing Healthy Boundaries

[00:00:00] Emily Thompson: Welcome to Being Boss, a podcast for creatives, business owners and entrepreneurs who want to take control of their work and live life on their own terms. I'm your host, Emily Thompson. And in this episode, I'm joined by Corey from the Being Boss team for part one of a two part series on boundaries. In this first part, we are diving into why

[00:00:21] everyone should be focusing on boundaries right now. How to tell when your boundaries are not supporting you and the biggest challenges to overcome when creating boundaries in your work and life. You can find all the tools, books, and links we reference on the show notes at www.Beingboss.club. And if you like this episode, be sure to subscribe to this show and share us with a friend.

[00:00:45] All right, bosses, it's time for another podcast recommendation. And this one is a deep dive into all the unsexy industries that are often overlooked. The podcast is Unsexy hosted by Elaine Zelby brought to you by the HubSpot podcast network. In each episode of unsexy, Elaine explores industries, such as campsite booking and outdoor travel, agriculture, chemical industry

[00:01:08] and more. And sure she claims they're unsexy, but many of the episodes are exactly the kinds of businesses that I would love to know more about. And I feel like many of you will too learn more and listen to unsexy wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:01:28] Corey you just ruined my birthday surprise.

[00:01:32] Corey Thompson: Wait now

[00:01:35] Emily Thompson: we were gonna get on. And I was gonna tell you happy birthday, because this is coming out on your birthday.

[00:01:44] I mean, you still could have said it like, we didn't say much. No, but then you got on and you were like, you have to be nice to me. This is my birthday episode.

[00:01:50] Corey Thompson: So I have a grand plan. Do you now, because we just had two episodes come out previously that featured me. Yep. Then we have this episode and then actually have one more episode coming up.

[00:02:00] I think we should rearrange the schedule. So it's just a month of me.

[00:02:03] Emily Thompson: A month of Corey, cuz it's Corey's 30th birthday. You're officially an old man.

[00:02:10] Corey Thompson: I don't like that. I'm still a kid at heart.

[00:02:14] Emily Thompson: I know, but I can't even like give you a birthday surprise. You're ruining it with all. Eco birthday things happening.

[00:02:22] Corey Thompson: we're literally recording this in may. You could still surprise me.

[00:02:25] Emily Thompson: I mean, I might, but it won't be a surprise now.

[00:02:30] we'll see. Happy birthday, Corey.

[00:02:32] Corey Thompson: Oh, thanks.

[00:02:33] Emily Thompson: A month. Two months early. no, one month. I don't know. What is today? Who knows? Regardless excited about this chat today. I think this is gonna end up being a very long, an engaging conversation about a topic here at Being Boss. It's one of our core pillars, right?

[00:02:52] It's one of the things that we believe makes us who we are. And it's a topic that we've been talking about a lot in the community. So we're here to talk about boundaries. Are you ready to do this?

[00:03:06] Corey Thompson: No, no. I was actually just thinking that we always, I always get brought onto episodes that I don't like talking about the topic because I don't have any of these skills.

[00:03:17] I don't have boundaries, so,

[00:03:20] Emily Thompson: oh my God. Well, this is your, like all of these episodes are your boss interventions.

[00:03:26] Corey Thompson: Oh, there you go.

[00:03:27] There. Yeah. I'm bringing a different perspective to this table, right?

[00:03:31] Emily Thompson: A baby boss perspective. Corey. That's what this is. And well, good. I'm excited to show sort of both sides of this.

[00:03:41] I hope I can offer some insight into the other end of the spectrum though. We will talk about that in a minute. But I am excited to be here talking about bound. I'm excited, even if you're not excited because boundaries is I'm excited and you sound it , you totally sound. It it's super important. I was thinking about, you know, why boundaries?

[00:04:05] And I think we always lead with mindset as like pillar number one of Being Boss, right? Mindset, boundaries, habits, and routines, et cetera, et cetera. Because I believe that being boss starts with mindset. It voice said it Being Boss begins with mindset, but I think Being Boss is made real, like is manifest with boundaries.

[00:04:27] So mindset is on the inside. The first part of Being Boss on the outside is boundaries. It's incredibly important, right? If they're with mindset, it's just the outward, outward expression of a boss mindset or it's one facet of an outward expression of a boss mindset. We've been talking about boundaries in the Being Boss community for the past couple of weeks, several weeks, we dedicated the entire Q2 of this year to conversations around boundaries.

[00:04:57] And I wanna do this for a couple of reason. One, it is, a core pillar, core thing, the foundation, is it a pillar or a foundation. Those are two very different parts of architecture in general.

[00:05:14] Indeed. You need them both. So it is an important part of what we do, but it's also just an important part

[00:05:21] I think of where everyone is in this moment. It is May, 2022. We are two years. Post the beginning of a global pandemic. We all had a huge shake up two years ago, when we all became hermits in our little houses we became,

[00:05:39] Corey Thompson: and we had to create, we had to create boundaries between us and a disease.

[00:05:44] Emily Thompson: Yeah.

[00:05:45] Literally us and everyone. Right. I mean, we had to all put up all of these walls and we redefine what our work-life boundaries looked like and what it looked like to do the work that we were doing. And how we showed up in the world, which is not very much at all. And just sort of what that looked like. [00:06:00] So there was a huge shake up two years ago to everyone's boundaries.

[00:06:03] And now that we, quote, unquote, on the other side of it are definitely, the world is waking up and people are going out and events are happening. And all of these things, we are all now looking at another collective restructuring of boundaries. We're going back out into the world. We are going to events.

[00:06:21] We are traveling. We're going back to the office. Our clients are wanting to meet us in person. Also in general, we are not the same people we were two years ago. Yeah, right. And I'm considerably more anxious than I was two years ago. Considerably wider perspective of the world, for sure. And in some ways, significantly more narrow.

[00:06:44] We are not the same people that we were two years ago and our businesses are not the same, either the business that we are all currently running have not ran in the environment that we are moving into because our businesses are D. So we are in this like phase of collective transition where we are all restructuring our boundaries, kind of at the same time, again, as new people with new businesses, more or less in a new world.

[00:07:13] Is it better? That's not what we're talking about here. but it is new nonetheless. I wanted to come have a conversation about boundaries because we're all in it. I think we're all feeling some heat to one way or the other and the conversations I'm having with bosses. I'm seeing it all over the place in all kinds of ways.

[00:07:31] And so I wanted to have a big old conversation about it.

[00:07:35] Corey Thompson: So we did have an episode back in December, it was episode 279. It was called four must have business boundaries for CEOs. I was on that episode. So how does this episode gonna stand out from that one? Like why, why are we having this conversation again?

[00:07:50] Five months later.

[00:07:51] Emily Thompson: Good question. That one has nothing to do with this one.

[00:07:56] Basically, I think those were, were how many? Four or five? What, what was the number four? So that was four. Incredibly important boundaries for every CEO to have, I think, no matter your business, no matter what the world is doing, like no matter, no matter like evergreen, incredibly evergreen, and very pointed to those four for like that certain kind of person, someone who's wanting to fit into this CEO role.

[00:08:22] You wanna get there? You wanna like uplevel yourself, go listen to that one. Love that for you. This one is more of an overarching conversation as to why boundaries are important, because we have also, we meaning me and Kathleen, I guess when I say that, but you know, now that I'm still here, I've seen over the years, we can talk about these things.

[00:08:43] 47 million times in 87 million different ways, figure that out. And people are still going, be struggling with boundaries. They're hard. We all have different. You could, Corey has literally edited every episode that we have done for seven years and still doesn't have boundaries.

[00:09:02] Corey Thompson: Well, just cuz I edited them doesn't mean I actually pay attention

[00:09:05] Emily Thompson: Indeed. Indeed. Just kidding. I pay attention ishish but they're incredibly difficult for everyone in some capacity or another. So this one I wanna, I wanna dive into a little more of the overarching themes. And I want to, I even wanna reflect on where I am with boundaries, because I wanna see how these sort of things ebb and flow.

[00:09:27] And I wanna end on some really practical steps for people to take, to, to identify boundaries that are needed in their life and put them into place. It has nothing to do with, you know, the four basics for CEOs, but just anyone who needs some boundaries and any part of their worker life can get something out of this because y'all boundaries are boss.

[00:09:48] Period. I, when I could meet someone who, you know, has four managers and, you know, 18 levels of superiority above them, and they will be one of the most boss people I've ever met. If they have incredible boundaries.

[00:10:05] Corey Thompson: Have you ever experienced, or I guess not experience, but met a boss that did not have boundaries that was a boss.

[00:10:11] Emily Thompson: No. Whoa, no. I mean, like you're a mess.

[00:10:19] Right. Or, and, and maybe they have a successful business, but like, even then it's because someone on their team has amazing boundaries that has like, given them the ability to create a, a boss business. But it's not usually because of the boss. I think that boss be Being Boss is very hugely defined by your ability to define the right boundaries for yourself and absolutely hold them no matter what is happening.

[00:10:49] So, no, I don't think I have I'll think on that one, but gut is no.

[00:10:53] Corey Thompson: Okay. So on the flip side, what's the most boss boundary that you've ever witnessed in a person. [00:11:00]

[00:11:00] Emily Thompson: There's lots of little things. I'm always really impressed by someone who will. Leave a party.

[00:11:09] Corey Thompson: oh, I am totally. Okay. So I have that boundary. I totally will just leave without telling anybody.

[00:11:14] Emily Thompson: Like, I wanna stay and see what happens.

[00:11:16] Y'all like, I might be tired and that's, I will do that. And I love that you love that is one that you have one of the one that I admire. One of the ones that I admire the most Corey is one that you have. So , there is just that, I, I don't know. I'm, I'm always a little too intrigued to sort of see what happens when things get late to leave at parties early, though.

[00:11:37] I have also totally left like if I'm sleepy, nothing will stand in my way. for sure. I, I love it when people take really amazing. Very responsible sabbaticals. And I'm saying responsible because I've definitely experienced or seen people heard of people, experience people who take irresponsible sabbaticals.

[00:11:58] Like they just leave regardless of whether they should be leaving their business or not. Hmm . And that's not something that I condone, but. I'll never forget a couple of years ago, several years ago now is at, a conference where someone was speaking about how they, they had positioned their business, like had sort of figured things out in a way so that every seven years they were taking a one year sabbatical and they had sort of drawn this boundary around that like year of sort of creative, exploration and, And just focusing on, refueling themselves that allowed them to go back in and just like bust it out for another seven years.

[00:12:44] And that was, that's something that I've always really admired. And I, it stuck with me. It has stuck with me for a really long time to think about what it would be like to, to give yourself that kind of freedom and to be able to even emotionally, mindset-wise walk away from your business for that long. And to draw that boundary between you and the work that you do, and to understand the value of taking that time for yourself.

[00:13:11] That's, that's probably like the pinnacle of creative existence to me.

[00:13:16] Corey Thompson: I don't think I could come back after it being a year away. Like, I think it would be too comfortable being gone. I would just dying.

[00:13:24] Emily Thompson: That's funny. I there's a part of me that is like ditto. Like once you put me on an island, I'm not coming home.

[00:13:31] But there's another part of me that feels like I would probably be so ready to come back and do something amazing after that time that like, let me go see what that would look like. I could see it going both ways personally. What about you? All the people you've worked with? I don't know, people you've experienced in your life.

[00:13:53] What's the most boss boundary you've ever witnessed.

[00:13:58] Corey Thompson: You?

[00:13:59] Emily Thompson: Oh my God.

[00:14:00] Corey Thompson: Yeah, I know. , that's disgusting to say.

[00:14:03] Emily Thompson: You want a good birthday present don't you.

[00:14:07] Corey Thompson: But no, like even just recently, like you, you have two businesses and, and when Almanac decided to move store locations again. Yeah. You, you had to take some time away from Being Boss to go focus on actually moving locations, getting the store front, set up.

[00:14:23] So you actually set that boundary, like, Hey, Being Boss, you guys are on your own for a couple of weeks. Go manage yourselves. I'll be back. So I can, I mean, that's, that's pretty boss.

[00:14:32] Emily Thompson: Indeed. I guess that is kind of like a mini sabbatical, except I didn't go off to my ties on a island. I was working somewhere else.

[00:14:42] I, I will say so a couple of years. No, maybe about a year ago. Who was I talking to? Who was this person? I was in conversation with someone who does not know me professionally. They have no idea what I do. It obviously wasn't even someone that I know very well, because I literally can't even remember who it was.[00:15:00]

[00:15:00] But they said to me, you are a boss with boundaries. And I remember thinking like, they actually used that phrase boss. They used that phrase. Huh. And I was like, okay, I am, I think I do in general very much so embody boss boundary energy. Right? Like I know my boundaries, I will. What were you doing at the time?

[00:15:23] Like why did I say that? I can't remember. I can't remember the situation. I'll have to, like, I'm gonna think on that, but I feel like it wasn't even anything too crazy. It was just like some general basic something and they were impressed. But just getting that sort of feedback. Sort of put me in a place where like, yes, yes.

[00:15:44] I, I, I am really generally great with some boundaries and it's because of that, that I'm able to see sort of whether someone else does or does not. And I'm pretty good at identifying where they need to be and what they can and should look like. Which is why I'm so excited to talk about this, but I will say I'm not always that great at it either.

[00:16:07] Like, even, even I'm not always evolves at boundaries.

[00:16:11] Corey Thompson: So I was gonna say, we're talking about how you do have boundaries, but how do you actually feel about your boundaries?

[00:16:19] Emily Thompson: It, what day is it? Currently Wednesday in may. Yes, 20, 22, a little less than great. In my experience and my experience being one where I run two businesses that are

[00:16:38] consistently changing, growing, and changing for better or worse. And there's not really any worse, except for like, and there,

[00:16:44] Corey Thompson: and I think just add a layer to it. They're also very different businesses. Yes. Retail, and then online, whatever we call ourselves, whatever it is, we're doing whatever we do. But yeah,

[00:16:56] so I think just. Having to change that mindset back and forth between these two very different businesses. You had to have boundaries with how you actually work on a consistent basis day to day.

[00:17:07] Emily Thompson: Indeed, indeed. And over the past, I mean, since we've opened up the new store and some things that we're, we have projects running out our ears over here at Being Boss, I cannot wait to start sharing more of that stuff for sure.

[00:17:20] But over the past couple of months, I felt my, my own boundaries deteriorating, because I'm also in a season of transition, which is really why I think this is the most timely episode, because you could be the most person, most boss person on the planet with your boundaries, but when something shifts and changes in your life, Those boundaries have to be redefined.

[00:17:40] They have to be rebuilt. They have to be, you know, so re communicated, re upheld all of these things. And I'm definitely in a season where so much of my life and work has changed over the past couple of weeks that I feel like jello, jello needs. That's not a good, I feel like. Mm, no analogies are gonna work here that I can pick up quickly.

[00:18:06] okay. But I feel like I don't have any. So when you start feeling this, rolling down a hill, how about that? that's weird.

[00:18:14] Corey Thompson: Anyway, beside the point. So when do you start feeling this way?

[00:18:20] Emily Thompson: Oh, man. I don't even know. I, it has gotten, I'll call it bad over the past couple of weeks because of the new store and just so many things growing and expanding.

[00:18:32] But I can absolutely pinpoint a moment a couple of months ago where I felt like my energetic boundaries were starting to fall apart. Are you ready for a weird ass story?

[00:18:46] Corey Thompson: Yes. That's why I'm here. I'm here for the stories.

[00:18:51] Emily Thompson: So I feel like I've maybe shared this lightly here on the podcast, but last July a car[00:19:00]

[00:19:00] drove through my front yard and slammed itself into my front porch and tore down half my porch.

[00:19:09] Corey Thompson: And I, and just to paint a prick picture, you have like a huge front porch. Yeah. Like it's one of those like classic stretches from side to side, like the entire length of your house. Nice sitting Southern porch for sipping tea.

[00:19:22] Emily Thompson: Yep. This just drove his car right into it. Hmm right into it. And it was the wildest thing. David and I were in the house. It was just the two of us though. Lily was supposed to have been walking home at that moment, which like I had a moment of realizing that and almost passed out and died. But wait, that didn't happen in the middle night?

[00:19:41] No, it was like in the evening, sun was still up. No, it was like. Just before sunset David and I are cooking dinner. We're about to like, get our chicken off the pan and walk outside to sit on our front porch to eat because in the summer when the weather is nice, it is literally our dining room and our living room.

[00:19:57] And like David has fallen asleep out there before. So sometimes it's our bedroom. it is. I mean, we live on our front porch. Heard this really loud bang go running to the front of the house. And someone had had just, I think maybe fallen asleep at the will. Apparently they were not intoxicated. They were not, you know, under anything that was prevalent enough to be tested for.

[00:20:19] I think they fell asleep at the will and they took a turn and just kept turning and went right through my front yard and hit my porch. And I remember that day thinking shit. Something's wrong and not just like someone ran to my porch, but like my energetic boundaries have just been blown the F through.

[00:20:39] Corey Thompson: Like, you pissed off some pagan garden. They've put a curse on you and

[00:20:43] Emily Thompson: oh my God. Not all of that I have. But maybe, but maybe, I definitely, so the next day I went out there with the biggest old bundle of Sage . Sage the hell out of my front porch and had some guy come up off the street and ask me if we needed help.

[00:21:00] We had an interesting conversation about Sage, where he, it, it, it actually, it was a private conversation. We'll just keep it. It was a weird conversation about that was sparked by the smell of Sage y'all. It was a magical moment. So. From there. I felt like something was off and like the whole situation with getting my porch rebuilt was the longest and most tiresome, annoying process.

[00:21:26] If more contractors and subcontractors were bosses, the world would be a significantly better place. I'm just gonna say that and leave that there a couple months later, or a couple weeks later. Actually, there was also a scenario where a woman has, built a, a really beautiful garden right next to my, my property line.

[00:21:48] And over the course of a couple of weeks, her squash vines grew over and threw my fence. And I remember having another sort of sense of like my energetic bound, like this, his space and like, she's sweet. It's really fine. I don't mean that. I was being encroached upon literally in my physical boundaries.

[00:22:12] So it's been, it's something that I've been working on very intentionally, literally as I'm re or saying all of this. And as I wrote this whole agenda, like I have my black Toline in my hand, I basically have some my body at all times. I'm like, I'm trying to do my work to reinstate my energetic boundaries because things feel incredibly off.

[00:22:34] And as I've moved into this really busy season, I feel, you know, my personal boundaries and like business boundaries also just sort of unraveling as I'm here. So I'm working on it. I'm excited to talk about this because I'm actually in a place where I don't feel like I have very good boundaries. I also think I do and many

[00:22:55] parts of my life and work, but there are some overarching ones that are leaving me feeling a little to be desired for sure. And so I'm excited to talk from that space because. When it comes to creating boundaries, the whole point of having them is that you feel supported in what you're doing. I have not felt supported in my house for a while.

[00:23:19] I mean, someone literally drove into my front porch have, oh,

[00:23:22] Corey Thompson: I thought we had a talk had to have a talk with David. Like how's not supporting you.

[00:23:27] Emily Thompson: We can talk about that if we need to. No, I'm just kidding. David is fine. It's really just people running into my, like getting oh, okay. Into my property. That should not be. But basically when you don't feel supported. Like,

[00:23:41] you are spending your resources, which time, money, and energy, which I will usually refer to collectively as energy. If you don't feel like you have the energy time, money, or energy to do your job, or to feel your best or to, you know, feel secure, like have some of that hardcore root chakra stuff taken care of,[00:24:00]

[00:24:00] then you need boundaries. And I feel like I need that in some areas of my life and work. I am also still very great in some places I feel very supported in some places, but I'm definitely in a season where, you know, it's funny in the CEO day kit, which is our kit of tools for people who, or for bosses who want to take control of their business.

[00:24:22] Being Boss at club slash CEO day kit. Just slash CEO actually. There is a step of CEO day kit that is looking at the seasons of work seasons of creation actually. We talk about square one or winter the season when the season, when you know, nothing makes sense where your boundaries are gone, where you sort of feel like mush.

[00:24:47] And that's where I feel like I am in this moment. And the idea is that you move past that into a season where you start, sort of defining and building things up and figuring out what you're doing next and what you need or where you need support to do the things that you do next. So if you're familiar with that with CEO day kit, and I just need you all to know that I'm in square one, I am in winter in terms of my boundaries and, and you get back there sometimes. Which is, which is why I,

[00:25:16] I wanna bring that up for anyone who feels boss, but who feels that they are in a place where nothing makes sense. And so maybe you feel less boss than you normally would. It is simply part of the cycle of showing up and building things that you were going to find yourself occasionally in these places.

[00:25:37] Or things don't make sense or you don't feel as boss, as you could be and where your boundaries are a hot mess. And the point is not to just like, you know, wallow and feel sorry for yourself. And the point is also not to just put back in place old boundaries that served you before it is to look forward and define the new boundaries that you need to support you with where you are now

[00:25:58] and going next, because where we are now is not where we were two years ago is not where I was a year ago, six months ago, even. And so I'm just in a place where I kind of have a clean slate, but my clean slate's kind of smudgy.

[00:26:13] Corey Thompson: You're clean. Slate has been driven over by a car.

[00:26:17] Emily Thompson: Yeah. It was hit by a car and like had some vines growing through it that were not mine.

[00:26:23] And, and, you know, had a whole business built on top of it as well.

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[00:27:17] Hearing all of that. And you thinking that you also have no boundaries. How are you feeling about yours these days?

[00:27:24] Corey Thompson: Well, funny, you should ask. I was actually thinking my boundaries are actually not bad.

[00:27:29] Emily Thompson: I know Corey. They're not.

[00:27:31] Corey Thompson: They're actually, I've been teasing. They're actually not that bad. They used to be, they used to be horrible.

[00:27:35] Like back when I was a full time full-time business owner and, and just had a bunch of clients, I had terrible boundaries cuz I, I did not define any for myself. And so I was letting clients walk all over me. But now that I'm, that I'm working with Biddy Tarot and Being Boss almost exclusively, I'm glad you said support because Biddy Tarot and Being Boss, they actually support my boundaries.

[00:27:58] And so, you know, with Biddy Tarot, especially. because it's a team that's spread across the globe. You know, it, it can be hard to set up meetings that actually meet everyone's time zone restrictions. And whenever there actually is a meeting that they want me to be in, but it falls outside of my working hours.

[00:28:15] They're just like, oh no, we can't do that because that would, that would violate Corey's working hours. And so we don't wanna like break those boundaries of his and Being Boss is the same way. Like I'm taking my first vacation. Ever next week and you guys are actually expecting like, okay, let's make sure we don't do anything while Corey's gone.

[00:28:31] Cuz we wanna respect his time off. So it is, it is very important for other people to support your boundaries or else it's hard. It's hard to set you on boundaries if no one's supporting you in them.

[00:28:41] Emily Thompson: Yeah. Absolutely. And I love that you bring all of that up because you're sort of sharing another facet of, you know, Being Boss of being a business owner, and having boundaries.

[00:28:52] It is also respecting other people's boundaries and it's, it's creating conversations around those boundaries too, of like, you know, When are you going on vacation? I was, we were joking with the team a little bit ago that I've been begging you to call on vacation for like 10 years.

[00:29:07] Corey Thompson: well, I haven't had boundaries, so I just, I'm not working.

[00:29:11] Emily Thompson: What am I doing? I'm just so happy that you're doing. And oftentimes, you know, actually. Another person on the team recently was like, I'm going on vacation? I can take my laptop if I need to. And I was like, don't you dare don't you dare take your laptop. Literally not allowed. Like I will respect. I will respect y'all's boundaries oftentimes more than you guys will for sure.

[00:29:32] And that, that is something like as a, the boss of a business, you also need to be mindful of for the people who you are here, supporting who are here supporting you is, is also. Respecting other people's boundaries, just as much as you want them to respect yours, it definitely creates an environment where boundaries are just respected and wouldn't that be a great world to live in everyone.

[00:29:55] Corey Thompson: Also, I am bringing my laptop next week in case something explodes while I'm gone.

[00:29:59] Emily Thompson: Oh my god, Corey. We're literally, even if it explodes, you will not know about it. Do I need to take you all? I will remove you from our slack account for the whole weekend. If I have to. I will. Okay. You do whatever you wanna do for sure.

[00:30:14] But you're not gonna hear from us, even if the world birds down. Okay, actually, I'll check on.

[00:30:18] Corey Thompson: I would, I would hope that the world is pretty dumb.

[00:30:20] Emily Thompson: I will check on you. okay. So no, that's, that's a really important, really important point. And that support piece is piece like, is an important piece of it, because that is what we're here to, we're here to like protect and support.

[00:30:36] That's what boundaries are here to do.

[00:30:37] Corey Thompson: So, if someone doesn't have a car driving through the porch, how can they recognize if their boundaries are a mess?

[00:30:47] Emily Thompson: Oh, I mean, I, why not start with like the weird things that are happening in the environment around you? I think there's, I mean, we will go woo all day long, and I know that you aren't necessarily the person to carry that conversation with me.[00:31:00]

[00:31:00] maybe that becomes a conversation for another day with another boss. But, there is something to be said about, you know, sort of picking up the signs around you. And I think I definitely have had many signs coming that like a season of change was coming and I need to shore some things up or a time would come when I need to shore some things up.

[00:31:19] But generally when it comes to regular people, boundaries and business boundaries. There's a couple of things that happen in my life and work that, or just inside of me, really, that makes me. Understand that the boundaries that I currently have are not serving where I'm going or where I even am now. So one of those is whenever I catch myself doing things that I know I shouldn't be doing that I don't wanna be doing.

[00:31:46] And especially if there's already someone around that should be doing them for me. Yeah. Right. Like, there's something, some sort of communication issue has like, has happened or someone's not showing up to support me in just the way that I need them to support me or whatever it is that may be happening.

[00:32:02] If those sorts of things start showing up on my to-do list, or more importantly, if I'm actually sitting down to do them, then I know that like I'm not being clear enough with my boundaries as to what I'm here to contribute to the organization and what other people are responsive for contributing as well.

[00:32:19] So that's when that one's a really big one and it's probably, that's actually tends to be a little bit of a deeper one for me. That one doesn't come up super quickly. But I know for a lot of bosses who have not had teams, as long as I have, that may be one of your very first signs, right. That something is off because I was your boundaries are here to protect your time, money and your energy.

[00:32:41] If you are spending your time, money, or energy on something that you shouldn't be spending it on. Red flag that your boundaries are not where they need to be. They're all about prioritizing. And so sometimes that is with other people. Sometimes that is just with yourself one way or the other. I think every situation is a bit different.

[00:33:02] Another one for me. And this is the one that is like slapping me in the face right now. is when my calendar is too full. If my calendar has so many things on it that I can't have lunch that I can't like enjoy an evening, that I'm not having a weekend off. That I cannot even look ahead to plan a vacation.

[00:33:23] Then I know my boundaries have gotten jacked and something needs to change. That's where I currently am.

[00:33:30] Corey Thompson: Yeah.

[00:33:30] If, if, if you open your calendar, and you let out a big, then I think your boundaries are a mess because that probably means you're booking too much.

[00:33:43] Emily Thompson: That's where I am. I do have like, literally last week I opened it and was like, I don't wanna do this week.

[00:33:48] And you know, I love my job. I love the work. If I ever feel like that something is wrong. Same thing with this week. Same thing with next week, this I will also say is not necessarily, not only a result of some poor boundaries. It's mostly a result of, I just took two months off of Being Boss and now that I'm back in it, I'm having to squish a lot of things into a small window of time.

[00:34:14] And I also know that I could have put in better boundaries to mitigate this, like slap me in the face as soon as I get back. If I had had a bit more forethought.

[00:34:28] Corey Thompson: That kind of illustrates that too many boundaries can be a bad thing, because if you're putting up so many boundaries that you're putting off work, because you want more me time or whatever it is, but then you have to come back to work and there's just so much going on because you put off all that work boundaries can, if

[00:34:49] Emily Thompson: you have to balance and you have to, well, I think the balance happens when

[00:34:58] you align your boundaries clearly and effectively with both your values and therefore your priorities right. So like, let's say I had taken off two months for me time. And then came back to work and looked at my calendar and looked the way I did the me time boundary wouldn't have served the sort of larger priority

[00:35:25] I have for like, one of my values is freedom. My calendar does not look like freedom right now. sure I had. Utmost freedom for those two months. But if it doesn't serve this sort of longer term vision of freedom, then that actually wasn't a very aligned, boundary that I created. So it's when you define your boundaries around your values and like where your priorities lie right now, my priorities lie with getting the shit done that I need to get done so that I can reenter a longer, my longer term vision of freedom.

[00:36:02] Right. So there's also this, like, matter of like, we also have responsibilities that we have either been given or that we've accepted for ourselves. I have those, I'm showing up to do the work that I need to do, so that I can align myself with the values that I have. So balance happens. Natural balance will happen when you are aligning your boundaries with your values and your priorities.

[00:36:30] Corey Thompson: What are the red flags do you have?

[00:36:32] Emily Thompson: When I can't even I think that's actually probably more of a, more of an indicator of that anxiety. I was talking about a little bit ago. I don't know that this is because of boundaries or a lack of boundaries or just. Like who I am today. I would say though, one of my, one of the biggest ones and one of the signs that I've like gone too far, which is not quite where I am now, but where I can like kind of see myself going

[00:36:56] if I don't get some things judged up pretty quickly is I get literally listless with all of my boundaries. Like if, if a couple of them have started unraveling, let's say like, one of my big ones is, you know, Thursday, no meeting days. I currently have like two meetings on Thursday this, this week. I know.

[00:37:16] And like, and I think do next week. Oh, no, I don't next week I five, but I do the week after that. Oh, how dare you? Right. Like whenever those sort of boundary in it, but again, I'm back, there are things that need to be done so that I can sort of reenter like my ideal work life blend. But whenever things like that start happening and I just feel like there's no hope that I'm ever gonna get 'em back that I'm like, whatever you wanna talk to me at 8:00 AM or 8:00 PM or on Saturday or whatever, then fine.

[00:37:45] Because why does it even matter? Listlessness and that's what I know things have gotten really bad and I gotta assure things up really quickly, because they will also, and, well, how do I wanna put this, for me, because I identify so much with being a boss with boundaries, whenever my boundaries do start dissolving in that way, I literally start losing who I am or like a sense of who I am.

[00:38:15] Like it spirals really quickly for me, y'all really, really quickly. And so like getting into that place, I really get that listless because I start losing who I am that quickly, but self-awareness is key. Right. And I definitely have that.

[00:38:37] Corey Thompson: Yeah. And I think it just goes back to if you're not respecting your boundaries and, it, it makes, it makes things that you typically enjoy doing less fun.

[00:38:48] Yeah. And what's the point of doing this work if you're not having fun?

[00:38:52] Emily Thompson: Amen. A what's the point of doing this work, if you're not getting out of it, what you want. And for me fun for sure. Mornings to myself, for sure. Weekends off, for sure. Like, those are the things that I want and if I'm not getting them Thursdays where I can just like create and do without having to like zoom some more.

[00:39:14] That's one of the things I want. So you're totally right there. And that is that's where boundaries come in. It's where defining what your priorities are and creating boundaries around your resources, your time, money, and energy to assist you and, and bringing those things to fruition and to prioritize them.

[00:39:33] That's what they are here for. So for me, when my boundaries start disappearing, What's the point it's not that great. But it is an indicator for me.

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[00:40:30] I also once heard. Okay. And that for me is obviously when it gets too far, right. That's, that's how I know some big changes need to be made. I need to sit down with some people in my life and, and help them understand how I need to be supported. So when it comes to scheduling meetings or et cetera, et cetera, we know where things lie.

[00:40:49] But I once heard something for just general boundary making. That an indicator for when and where you need boundaries is in places where you just generally feel friction in your life at work. I feel like that one is like, is a really good one for just stopping, pausing and thinking, cuz you stopping and pausing apparently or two different things in this sentence.

[00:41:16] Corey Thompson: It's like stop, drop, roll. I mean, it's, it's a three step process.

[00:41:20] Emily Thompson: it's stop. Pause.

[00:41:25] And consider where in your life or work you are currently feeling friction, light friction, all awful friction, somewhere in between. Don't even know, wherever it is, whether it's a person, some sort of scenario, some sort of project you're working on something you're doing to yourself. That's a place where you need to find a boundary.

[00:41:45] So for me, I feel friction from all sides in this moment. We did recently do a poll in the community and had bosses, replying to share what struggles they struggle with most. And that was really interesting. And not honestly very surprising though, maybe a little bit surprising that the top three in order number one time boundaries.

[00:42:06] Ain't that the truth? Right? Raise your hand if. Time boundaries are like a huge struggle, right? Emotional boundaries, which for creatives is not surprising. Right. Very attached to work.

[00:42:21] Corey Thompson: So would, what would some of that be?

[00:42:22] Emily Thompson: I think being attached to your work. Right. Okay. Being like taking everything you read on social media to heart.

[00:42:30] Right. Taking feedback to heart. Whereas, like, instead of, you know, making it productive, you just like, oh my God, they hate me or whatever it may be. So like those emotional boundaries, I believe that is like, yeah, I got that. I got that one on lockdown still. still, still though actually saying that though.

[00:42:47] I will say that that's probably also a, a sign for me, like of like a spiraling boundary effect that I know that if I start getting really riled up over something or especially sad, like I I'll get riled up pretty easily. I don't get sad very easily when it comes to like, I don't know, feedback or whatever.

[00:43:04] Like I can sort of let things sort of slide off my back, glance off my shoulder slide past me. I don't know. Sure. I don't know what's happening. Okay. If those things start getting to me, I know like that's a, that's a red flag for all kinds of things. And then number three is money boundaries.

[00:43:25] Corey Thompson: Like what.

[00:43:26] I don't know. I'm just looking for examples. Like, what would like, what would, what would money bound, respect?

[00:43:32] Emily Thompson: I mean, probably. I would imagine one charging what you wanna charge. Hmm. Okay. Right. When someone comes to you and they're like, you know, but can you do it for last? And you're like, Ugh, fine. Right?

[00:43:42] You're you're not holding your own boundary for how much you charge or even want to charge, maybe spending money when you shouldn't be, or on things you shouldn't be, or you don't want to be maybe not necessarily. Corey did that one hit it.

[00:43:57] Corey Thompson: I've been buying a lot of Legos. um,

[00:44:02] I do not have a boundary on that at all. I'm just.

[00:44:07] Emily Thompson: Right. I mean, I think you're afforded not having that boundary by being, single with no kids. what else are you gonna spend your money on Corey? Savings. Right. I do feel like there was a previous conversation in a previous episode where you talk about pinning really. Yard projects that you seem to think you can't afford.

[00:44:33] I'm just gonna hold that one up and let you see it.

[00:44:38] I, what I do love about this. Or what's not surprising to me is that time boundaries are number one. I feel like that's pretty across the board, especially for us busy folks. Emotional also not really surprising creatives, and just like bosses who like put so much of what they do into their work.

[00:44:57] I feel like that one can be, can, is a relatively obvious one. And the money boundaries. I do think I'm glad that one's not number one. Congratulations. Y'all

[00:45:08] Corey Thompson: where were there? I'm assuming this was. Pre-selected options. Yes. What were the other choices?

[00:45:15] Emily Thompson: I have no idea. I did not do this poll oh, okay. I didn't know.

[00:45:19] though. I will happily, I will thank Karen, our community manager for giving me these notes so that we know what bosses are. I can't, I, I do think I answered it in the community, but I do not remember what the other options were. Okay, cool. Okay. I will say that we do little polls like this all the time in the community.

[00:45:35] So if you want to give your 2 cents ever on any of these things, being ball.club/community community is free. We're doing all kinds of fun things in there. Air, including polls, like this one.

[00:45:48] Corey Thompson: So let's move into the last segment of this, this episode, cuz I guess we will be doing a two parter. Yep. Cause we're already running outta time.

[00:45:56] So let's let me ask you this. What's the hardest part of creating. And or having boundaries.

[00:46:04] Emily Thompson: It's no fun. I'm just kidding. no,

[00:46:08] Corey Thompson: that is the opposite. Creating boundaries makes things fun.

[00:46:11] Emily Thompson: You're right. You're right. It totally does. It totally, totally does. And it totally does because that's also a thing I do wanna say before I dive into answering this question is.

[00:46:21] As bosses as people who are taking responsibility for ourselves and how it is that we build, you know, our livelihood and all of those things, we do get to make our own boundaries. We get to make our own rules. You know, you wanna stay up until midnight eating Cheetos. That's your life, honey? Yes, . I have to stop at midnight.

[00:46:41] That's the boundary, no Cheetos after midnight, or whatever it may be, how it is that people communicate with you, how often you're working, what days you wanna have no meeting day, whatever it may be. You get to define that for yourself. And that is, that is the pro here. And if I think also a challenge there too, is what boundaries are you holding that aren't yours?

[00:47:01] That's the deconditioning we all need to do to move forward. So a little prompt for everybody there. So, let me answer your question though. What are the, what's the hardest part of boundaries? I think probably the place that people struggle most is just holding their own boundaries. Right of like, you know, I, I want to prioritize, you know, starting my business and I'm gonna create this boundary where, you know, maybe six to,

[00:47:29] eight every evening, I'm gonna sit down and work on this thing, but then, you know, you're tired and your kid wants something and this event pops up and et cetera, cetera. And you just do all the things as opposed to committing to this, this boundary, this practice, you've, you've put down for yourself to achieve this goal you have for yourself.

[00:47:49] Like that's really hard. And it's hard for me for some things as well, for sure. I think this is where getting an accountability partner comes in. I think this is where joining a community, even like the Being Boss community, oftentimes bosses are in there, especially Monday meetups of like, or actually actually very much so in our virtual co-working sessions, there's always like, you know, what are you working on today?

[00:48:11] Create a boundary for yourself. Like where are you focusing, put in the chat and we'll hold each other accountable. And during the check-ins of virtual co-working, everyone's checking in. Did you do the thing? Did you complete this thing you committed to. So having accountability partners can really help, but you know, you can't have an accountability partner for literally everything.

[00:48:31] Can you?

[00:48:33] Corey Thompson: Maybe, I mean, challenge accepted but yes, I'm gonna say yes.

[00:48:40] Emily Thompson: Yeah, sure. You can. I still struggle with this too though. This is like, I, we are our own worst enemies, right? A hundred percent. One of mine is I would really love to be the kind of person who just like wakes up at 6, 6 30 every morning and like has a slow morning and, you know, writes in my journal and blah, blah, blah.

[00:49:00] But y'all, I just, I just don't wanna get outta bed.

[00:49:06] That like morning consistency is not my forte, especially with my kid being in school now and having to get up and like, it's not a slow morning, it's a get up and like breakfast, lunch, get out the door, whatever. I hate that literal. That's a whole other conversation. Y'all hate that so much, but, I've never like, I know what my ideal morning looks like, and I've just, I've never been really great at making it due for myself.

[00:49:32] Corey Thompson: Did you wanna start a podcast called morning routines?

[00:49:35] Emily Thompson: Yeah. Because like you Corey Cober with no shoes here talking about boundaries or me here talking about boundaries. No. Yes. And I also just think that really, really my ideal morning routine is just laying in bed, so that's fine too.

[00:49:53] Corey Thompson: There you go.

[00:49:53] Emily Thompson: Right. Do you have any, in what ways do you disappoint yourself Corey? [00:50:00]

[00:50:00] Corey Thompson: So actually going back to that poll it's time, I have terrible time boundaries and it's actually a domino effect. Because it starts with not getting enough sleep. And that's not happening because I want to stay up late.

[00:50:17] So I have time after work to like, watch my Atlanta Braves and then play video games before bed. But I don't have time to do that because I typically start work later in the day that I want to.

[00:50:28] Emily Thompson: Oh my God.

[00:50:31] Because as long as you're hearing yourself, as long as you're hearing yourself

[00:50:36] Corey Thompson: yeah, I know. And it's actually funny because,

[00:50:40] you mentioned accountability partners. I'm pretty sure Danny is my accountability partner. Because when, when it gets to be like 10 30 at night, he actually like gets mad if I'm not going to bed. Like, he'll just, yeah. He'll like he'll whine and, and force me to like, go get in bed with him, but, [00:51:00] that's cute.

[00:51:01] Yeah. I don't get sleep that's okay. But I will say I actually have started tracking my sleep debt. Yeah. To kind of hold myself accountable.

[00:51:08] Emily Thompson: How are you doing this?

[00:51:10] Corey Thompson: There's an app for that.

[00:51:11] Of course there is rise, sleep. Okay. Is the app? I use it. I like it. So very cool time. All comes back to time.

[00:51:19] Emily Thompson: Time. All right, there you go.

[00:51:21] All right. I think number two for hardest part about boundaries is just communicating them. I think it for a lot of balls, it's funny. In the Being Boss slack, you know, we're sharing, sharing. References sharing links and things for the brewed email, which is our email that we send out every week with a list of resources.

[00:51:43] Something came up yesterday about people entering their villain era. And I went and like read it. I was like, oh, I want a villain era. And then it was like the most vanilla, vanilla villain era thing where like, basically it's just described as people finally communicating their boundaries and like being assertive.

[00:52:01] And I thought really like, What happened to killing puppies?

[00:52:05] Corey Thompson: Cruella. That was a Cruella difference. Making boundaries makes people evil ?

[00:52:13] Emily Thompson: Or right. It's it's messed up. It's messed up or just. Yeah, they're saying being assertive about your boundaries makes you a bitch and I'm like, well, then I guess I've been a bitch for a very long time.

[00:52:29] I've been living in my, my villain era for quite some time. So I think that's. I ended up coming back in, in the slack. I had said something about like, I want a villain era and then I read it and I was like, never mind. I do not one of these, like, I do not want one of these vanilla finally being assertive, villains.

[00:52:46] I want a real one. And I dunno what that looks like yet. It just definitely does not look like killing puppies at all. I'm glad to clear that at all. But thinking about it, thinking about it, communicating them though is incredibly difficult for a lot of people and you cannot. You know, move through life with very strict boundaries.

[00:53:05] If you cannot communicate them to the people who are around you period. So that one is really difficult, but it's incredibly important to do it. There's also just the sort of a sort of adjacent piece of this and that's communicating them without feeling guilty. Like sometimes people can communicate them, but then they feel bad about it.

[00:53:23] Right. They have a hard time saying no. Or at least saying no. And then feeling confident in that, no. Or simply communicating them clearly or, and then feeling like you communicated it clearly. Cuz you may have, but then you go back later, like did I, did I do that? Right? You know, was I clear enough? Whatever it may be.

[00:53:42] So many fraudy feelings come up around communicating and communicating without, or yeah, without guilt, but it's incredibly important. And you start with the people who are closest to you, right? If you cannot tell your partner, if you can't tell your kids, if you can't tell your closest friends to, you know, what your boundaries are so they can respect them, it's gonna be incredibly difficult for you to have that conversation with your clients, or maybe it's actually the other way around.

[00:54:03] It's easier for you to have that conversation with your customers or clients, but more difficult to have it with those closest to you. Check yourself, if that's the thing, cuz that feels a little messed up. It's important for you to have those conversations, but is one of the hardest part of having boundaries is communicating them.

[00:54:19] Yeah. In general, in your business it actually becomes significantly more easy because just make them policy right in saying your emails. I'm sorry, but it's policy that I don't take emails on these days. Maybe not that one, but that you won't do this thing, that someone is asking you going outside the scope of a project, whatever it may be.

[00:54:38] And my last one for how it is, or what is hard about having boundaries is really getting the support you need and really even feeling the support you need to. Feel like your boundaries are being respected and that you are able to move forward in the way that you need to, to achieve what you want to achieve.

[00:55:01] And I think this is true for family and friends, like those who are close to you in your life, but it's also incredibly true for your team. Probably more so true for your team for bosses, because most of those conversations that I'm having with bosses, you know, feel guilty going on vacation when their team is there working.

[00:55:19] Right. Or, you know, taking your Thursday meeting, no meeting days when your team is having a meeting without you. Yeah. And go, I know whatever y'all can meet without me. I love that for you guys. Sometimes I, oh, do you have a little FOMO, little bit of like, are you all cracking jokes and I'm not there to laugh too, but in general, This is also a really hard part.

[00:55:41] I, one of the things that I always say around boundaries, especially in this realm is that your boundaries will only be respected as far as you respect them. So this sort of goes back to that first, one of like, you have to respect your own boundaries and people will usually follow suit for the most part sometimes.

[00:55:57] Well, you still have to communicate them, you still say like, I’m doing this because, or this is what I'm doing just in case you didn't see that I'm not, you know, going over there or doing this thing or whatever, I'm not. And usually it because is nice so that they can like get wrapped into your intentions or what it is that you were prioritizing.

[00:56:15] And then otherwise just could continuing to communicate and show up for your own boundaries will usually get other people on board. If people are not getting on board and still not respecting your boundaries. This is where you have to draw another boundary that protects you from the people who do not respect your boundaries.

[00:56:35] Right? This is a whole other. You thing and important, the only place where you cannot do this is with your own children. yeah. That's frowned upon. Yep. You can't kick them outta your house because they won't let you pee or whatever. It may be. However. That does not mean that you should not learn to communicate your boundaries to your children and completely and utterly uphold them for yourself so that they see you respecting your own boundaries and still otherwise completely expecting them to uphold the boundaries that you communicate to them.

[00:57:09] There's a longer learning curve than, you know, a grown person who should understand how this works, but it works just the same. In most cases. And I think obviously there are some cases where that might not necessarily be the case. They are incredibly young right.

[00:57:25] Corey Thompson: Well, I mean, you say that, but even.

[00:57:28] Simple boundaries. Like I know back when we were in, in person together, back at any Shopography when Lilly was what? Six, seven, if not younger, you taught four or five. You taught her that if you have your earphones in that means. She can't talk to you. yeah. Cuz you're working.

[00:57:46] Emily Thompson: Yeah. And totally respected it for sure.

[00:57:49] You may not, I'm just kidding. You

[00:57:54] you probably did, but for sure there are things that you can do. And, and I think that's one of the things we'll go into with this with the second part of this episode is what some of those things can look like. Cuz it can be as simple as do not talk to me. If I have my headphones. And then continuing to hold them responsible for that.

[00:58:13] So that's it that's like my first overlook at boundaries. I there's so much there I'm feeling like actually newly inspired to really sort of hit the ground running with putting some of my own in place. Everyone start looking out for some slack updates. Emily's new boundaries now that I'm in a new work life blend situation.

[00:58:34] But it's important to have them. And I'm excited about, I don't know, wrapping this up with what this actually looks like.

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