Episode 298

Money Magic and Financial Wellness with Jessie-Susannah Karnatz

April 19, 2022

How does your relationship with money affect your life, business, family, community, and even the world? You might be surprised to learn that financial wellness is one of the most meaningful and impactful practices you can cultivate. In this episode, Emily interviews Jessie-Susannah Karnatz, the Money Witch, about money magic and rituals for financial well-being. They discuss money for creatives, healers, and spiritual workers, and share how finances and community impact are directly linked.

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Discussed in this Episode

  • How Jessie-Susannah became an entrepreneur
  • The importance of money as a bottom line in business
  • What inspired Jessie to write her new book, Money Magic
  • The idea of healing your finances and why it matters
  • How money and spirituality are directly linked
  • Jassie-Susannah’s three points of financial life
  • Practical money rituals creatives and healers can practice

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In this episode, the Make $100 Today worksheet was mentioned. Download your copy here!


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[00:00:00] Emily Thompson: Welcome to Being Boss. A podcast for creatives, business owners and entrepreneurs who want to take control of their work and live life on their own terms. I'm your host, Emily Thompson. And in this episode, I'm joined by Jessie Suzannah Karnatz, The Money Witch, to talk about her new book, money magic, as well as it tips for healing, your finances and the intersection of money and spirituality.

[00:00:25] You can find all the tools, books, and links, we referenced on the show notes at www.beingboss.club. And if you like this episode, be sure to subscribe to this show and share us with a friend.

[00:00:37] In my experience, creatives struggle with sales. You're great at what you do, but you have a hard time talking about it, especially in sales focused conversations. If this is you, then I have your next podcast recommendation for you. The Salesman Podcast hosted by Will Barron brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network.

[00:01:00] If you want to learn how to sell the Salesman Podcast will teach you how to find buyers and win business and effective and my favorite ethical ways. Some of Will's latest episodes include the four step process to influencing buying decisions, using strategy rather than hustle to win more sales and sales targeting, supercharge your sales funnels and boost close rates.

[00:01:24] Check out this show and get better at selling what you do. Listen to the salesman podcast, wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:01:37] Jessie Susannah Karnatz AKA The Money Witch brings a capitalism critical shame free education to healers, hustlers, and creatives. In order to catalyze a change in their financial lives. She believes healing our finances will bring blessings to our lives, our lineages and our communities. She offers education, money management products and intuitive financial coaching online and in the bay area on unseeded Aloni land.

[00:02:05] And does it all with impeccable business lady style.

[00:02:11] Jessie Suzannah, welcome to Being Boss. I am so glad you're here.

[00:02:16] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: Thank you so much for the invitation.

[00:02:19] Emily Thompson: I am excited about this conversation. You just sort of popped into zoom and you were like, I think we've maybe done like Sini met something before. And I was like, I maybe feel this too, but neither of us can decide.

[00:02:33] Where or when this may have happened, I'm thinking this is going to be a really engaging conversation.

[00:02:41] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: Yeah. There must be some kind of connection there.

[00:02:44] Emily Thompson: Maybe, so. Who knows the world or the, the sort of spheres we, we run in are so interconnected. I find that oftentimes as bosses, that I, that I bring onto the show and, we like we pop in and out of each other's feeds or, or, blogging threads or whatever.

[00:03:00] And you never quite know, but I I'm so excited to have you on the show. I saw recently that you had a book coming out and I was like, it's time. It's time to, to have this chat.

[00:03:12] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: Yeah. March 1st was the release of my book, Money Magic. And I've just been thrilled to have it out ever since it's been, a really fun.

[00:03:25] Emily Thompson: I bet writing a book, releasing a book baby into the world is such a creative endeavor and then letting it out into the world, letting it sort of take on a life of its own, it is definitely worth celebrating. And I'm excited to talk to you about your book today and really just the concept behind it, this idea of money magic.

[00:03:47] So we think to get us started, actually to get us really started. I love for you to share more about your entrepreneurial story. So get us started with telling us how it is you got to where you are today. [00:04:00]

[00:04:00] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: It is so meandering.

[00:04:04] Emily Thompson: Oh, that's all the best stories are.

[00:04:11] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: I read I'm one of those people. It's like, if I'm going to tell a story, I want to tell the whole story, which my first job, or my first business ever was selling jolly ranchers at school. But, which I is more on my mind these days, because I have a 12 year old who also has a little school in my twenties.

[00:04:29] I spent most of my twenties working, in strip clubs. And as a dancer, you're really like, you are a solo prenuer because you are sort of, you're managing your own money. You're managing your own taxes, you're managing your own workflow. And I learned a lot about the exchange of money in those years.

[00:04:55] And then about halfway through that, I was working at a peep show in San Francisco. Hold the lusty lady, which was like, kind of, and iconic spot because it was one of the only successful unionization efforts in the sex work industry in the United States. I mean still to this day. And so, we were a union shop and the owners of the business, laid us all off.

[00:05:25] Like they were going to close down the shop and because we were already an organized workforce who had, plenty of experience at being like this place would be so much better if we were just running it, we bought it as a worker owned cooperative. So I was on the founding board of directors of that

[00:05:47] business and, I learned a lot, this was 2004, I think it was either 2004, 2005. So, it's like, we were like, yeah, sure. We can buy this million dollar business, just by reading advice on the internet, like do it. And that's exactly what we did. So, I, I was on the board of directors there for several years.

[00:06:10] I was in a position that was essentially kind of like lead HR, for several years. And I learned a lot. I learned a lot, because in a club like this was like hundreds of employees. So it was like, I hired hundreds of people. I fired, tens of people. There's a lot of movement and turnover and drama and all those things.

[00:06:36] So, I then got involved more deeply in the worker, owned co-op community and was working just like in the bay area. There's a strong network for that. And I started to kind of see just how sad it was that there was like so many really passionate people that were, excited about different ways of being in economy, different ways of being in business.

[00:07:09] And we're actually like putting that in practice and really like dedicating, their life force to this. And there was so much financial scarcity and there was also so much wow. In terms of financial professionals that had the cultural competency to work within the worker co-op community, and that's a mentioned the sex work community as well.

[00:07:33] Right? So I was kind of like up close and personal witnessing these alternative business communities where there just wasn't a lot of relevant financial advice. So a friend at the time, and I took sort of took it upon ourselves. She was doing some bookkeeping. She was also very involved in worker co-ops and we started a business in 2008, to do taxes, book keeping, and kind of like financial consulting for worker own, co-ops and also individuals who worked in work around co-ops and also, pulling over people from, who worked in the sex industry as well.

[00:08:13] So, that business. Was awesome. Like it was very well, crafted, and that was my sort of first experience at creating a business from the ground up, like all the marketing concepts and, a brick and mortar space and all the things that go along with that. Unfortunately, that business did not last very long, due to like intense business partner conflict, which I'm sure your community has a lot of experience on that topic.

[00:08:48] It's, it's a partnership, right. And it's not always, it doesn't always work out. So, ours did not, and also I got pregnant. I was pretty sick. I had pretty bad, quote unquote morning sickness, which we all know last all day, for about four months. And I just, I don't know. I just was like, okay, this is closing.

[00:09:10] This door is closing. So I went into a few years of parenting. Pretty much full time. I was continuing to do a little bit of taxes, a little bit of consulting just for our friends. And in 2012, we got evicted from our house, which, in San Francisco, I live in San Francisco in the bay area. It's very common.

[00:09:31] These kind of like no fault evictions that are for real estate, economic purposes. And we got evicted. I decided to get divorced. And all of a sudden I was like, I need a job. I have an almost three-year-old, I'm a single mother who hasn't worked in years and has a very eclectic work history.

[00:09:53] And I'm living in one of the most expensive places on earth. And I've just kinda got to figure this out. So there was a number of different paths that I attempted to tread, but I was very divinely, like shut down from all of them. There's a, there's a story. It's in the book. That's sort of the intro to my books.

[00:10:11] Like how, how did I become the money, which, and sort of goes into all these. That I was exploring. And then finally, I was like, I do know how to have a business. And at the end of the day, I am a person who, wants to do things my own way, like wants to be the mastermind behind the situation.

[00:10:33] So let me just see how viable this will be. And I started two businesses at that time. One was a postpartum doula practice because that is something I also do have training for. And the other was money, which, and a postpartum doula was fine, but that's a tough hustle and money, which just really, there was a lot of responsiveness.

[00:10:57] So I am always someone who follows the path that is opening in front of me and, really listen to like the spirit world and trust that like my angels and my ancestors are guiding me where I need to go. So. I just followed the path then, eight or so years later.

[00:11:18] Emily Thompson: Oh, the best stories are windy right then and there, the ones where you do exactly what you're saying, have you follow the doors that are opening in front of you, right.

[00:11:30] Do you sort of have many skills and many opportunities and you just go where there is response and opportunity and a bit of passion, maybe. A couple of questions for you because it sounds like, it sounds like this money piece or the question for you. Do you have any traditional education in finances or money management?

[00:11:59] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: I have a certificate in microcomputer accounting, from city college in San Francisco. And so that was when we were, my first business partner and I, in 2008, when we decided we wanted to start that business, she already was working as a bookkeeper. And bookkeeping is something that is generally, sort of taught in a like apprentice style, where you'll start working for someone and they have clients already.

[00:12:28] And, you kind of, they show you how to do it. So she, I kind of apprenticed under her a little bit. And then we both decided we would go, take this certificate program where, you take several classes on taxes and you take classes on bookkeeping and you take, whatever, it's like 10 classes or something like, so that was that.

[00:12:46] And then in California, in order to be a tax preparer, you have to sit through like a 60 hour, education program and take tests and exams and get certified by the state. And then every year you have to, take a certain amount of continuing education or recertify. So now, that's been, I think,

[00:13:09] 11 years, maybe I've been a certified tax preparer. So I've done that education every year. So that's, it's very self-taught. I have a number of like random degrees. I also have a culinary degree and I've started recently. I was started, personal financial planning, which is like a graduate certificate program at UCLA extension because I don't do financial planning.

[00:13:36] But I am interested in it conceptually and kind of like adding the philosophical points and the tools to the skillset that I already have. Perfect.

[00:13:50] Emily Thompson: Okay. What I love most about this is that you really got those first pieces of technical education. After you discovered that you sort of had this vision of the money side of business, and you even like took steps to start a business focusing on the money side.

[00:14:14] And I bring this up because in my experience with the creative business owners who, are the crowd who are listening to this, money is something that is like pulling teeth, right? Like dealing with the money side. You were able to sort of pinpoint kind of early on that this was a lens through which you were looking at the world that was different from how the people who were around you were doing it.

[00:14:40] So I would love to really dive into dive into dive into that difference. You were involved with this worker co-op you saw that there was some money issues everywhere, everywhere. Right. And you saw that there was a place where you could assist them in this, just from an innate knowing, right.

[00:15:03] That you had inside of you. So your experience with money or finances, or, really looking at business from, from that side of things, what do you think made you different from everyone who wasn't seeing it.

[00:15:21] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: I don't know. That's a fantastic question. I think, I'm a numbers person, right?

[00:15:31] So I've been doing bookkeeping and, I am a math person, so I think there's an aspect of that. That is always just present for me. When people are talking about things in terms of a business, I'm just like always have that little math calculator going like this doesn't add up, like, is this gonna add up?

[00:15:57] It's gonna the cost benefit analysis. And, I just see the numbers. I'm very in touch with the numbers. I feel like in a spiritual sense, as well as just there must be something about my brain that just really like that bottom line is important to me because, and coming from that, the sort of alternative business community, right?

[00:16:21] We're all familiar with the idea of multiple bottom lines, right? Like it's like finance, can't be the only bottom line, but it's important for a small business people to remember that it is definitely one of the major bottom lines, right? Like you're allowed to have a hobby, and if you are deciding you're going to do something for business, then the point is it needs to make you money.

[00:16:53] It needs to support your life, support you materially like on this earth journey. And you need to understand how to assess and read the terrain of finance, so that you can know if where you're going. Is going to support that for you or not. And you need to be able to navigate, the tools of finance, right?

[00:17:27] Like reading a profit and loss statement or knowing what the tax category, deduction categories are, or, knowing what receipts to keep or not, those little things. Right. So the kind of habits and tools that are also going to support you in that business terrain, those are absolutely essential skills as a small business person.

[00:17:57] Emily Thompson: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Perfect. Fascinating story. I absolutely love it. And I love that you are speaking of this money, the money side of things from this place where it was just, it was so innate to, to how it is that you see the world. I think. I mean, it, it's special to find someone like in our sphere who is so numbers oriented, and it gives you this place from what you can share.

[00:18:27] And, but, but share these concepts in a way that, creative business owners understand, whereas most financial talk in the world is so over their slash our heads, that how could we take it and use it in our lives and businesses? So I'm really excited to dive in a bit further.

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[00:19:36] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: We're honestly just scratching the surface in HubSpot's capabilities, but it's really nice to know that we're set up in a system that has the features we'll need as we grow. We track the contact information for all of our wholesale stockists and leads and HubSpot. There's so much data that we can add for each stockist, not just email and address, but any personal notes.

[00:19:56] The last time they ordered or special requirements, when it's time to reach out to our accounts, we can filter so that we're sending more personalized messages to each store. And that is super high. My HubSpot CRM platform helps my business stay connected. Learn more about how it can do the same for yours at hubspot.com.

[00:20:17] Emily Thompson: I want to talk a little bit, right? I want to talk a lot probably, about your book, money magic, which did come out. It came out on March 1st, 2022. So it's fresh in the world. I'd love to hear from you who or what inspired you to write this book? What is this book a culmination of?

[00:20:37] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: I would say, my clients have inspired me to write this book and just the community of what you're just speaking, right?

[00:20:47] These people in the world, that I love and care for who are doing incredible creative work, incredible spiritual work, incredible healing work, incredible community work. And are often not feeling that same competency and success reflected back to them in their financial life. And I really, it's,

[00:21:24] I don't know. It's a, it's a, it's a love, right? It's a form of love for me that I feel like I'm bringing, to the world to anyone who needs it. Perfect. It reminds me when you were just, speaking of like, what is this lens? It really is kind of bringing me back. 15 years or so too, when I was in that first, worker co-op and thinking about like, why is it that I'm so focused on finances versus other people in the situation?

[00:21:58] And I think it really ties into exactly what I would say is the inspiration for this book as well, which is that I see the lack of money or, when things become less and less profitable, like I feel like in the worker co-op community, I saw that a lot where things would kind of become less and less financially viable.

[00:22:23] Maybe the, original investment is getting spent out or something changes where the business model isn't as profitable. And there starts to be this financial scarcity. People are kind of like cycling and cycling, trying to iterate, and, and not necessarily doing it effectively. It feels so sad to me.

[00:22:45] Like it really hurts me to see that because these are the same people that I'm just speaking of, like incredibly gifted, incredibly special people who are here to walk like a path where they're bringing their gifts to the larger human community. And that life force is just kind of being sucked out by it not being met with like enough material support, to function and thrive.

[00:23:18] And I just don't want to see people go through that anymore.

[00:23:23] Emily Thompson: I love that mission a hundred percent as you're talking about that, I'm definitely is it's resonating with me so much as to what I have seen from so much of the creative community. I think you hit the nail right on the head, this, this, separation between the work and the effort and the mission and the quality and the value.

[00:23:43] And then literally what's in their bank account and finding a way to lessen that gap to make the two meet is quite the worthy cause thank you for taking it on. Perfect. So the positioning for this book and so much of what you do is center around this idea of healing, your finances. As part of the subtitle of the book, which the title of the full title of the book has Money Magic: Practical Wisdom, and Empowering Rituals to Heal Your Finances.

[00:24:15] So this idea of healing your finances is fascinating to me. But I think we sort of have to start with this question of what's wrong with our finances. I think you just hit on that a little bit, but I'd love for, to hear you flash that out a little bit more. What have you seen is, is wrong with the state of our finances currently?

[00:24:34] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: I think there's two ways that we could come at this. So one is that idea exactly what you're asking, like what's wrong. That needs to be healed, right? Like there needs to be an injury. And it's funny because I never really thought about it that way. And, the original proposed title of my book was heal your finances because that is a major, that's the entire premise of my work.[00:25:00]

[00:25:00] And the publisher was like, Salud book called heal your finances because people can't gift it to other people without implying that something is wrong with them.

[00:25:12] Emily Thompson: Well, passive aggressive, if you need to be.

[00:25:15] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: Exactly, they're paying you guys the big bucks. I would never think about that. But, it kind of alerted me to like, in a way we live in a sort of healing phobic society, right?

[00:25:28] Like, oh, to say someone needs to heal something is, almost like an insult or something. So if we take it from that approach, like, what is the injury like? Is there a direct injury? I would say, so every, all of this is based in my spiritual beliefs. My spiritual belief is, you are incarnated into your body at a particular point in space time, and you're here for a reason.

[00:25:56] So, all of us who are reading my book, we are gathered together in this moment that is based on, colonialism that is based on predatory global capitalism. We are in a very stressful point in economic existence, right? So there's little injuries that happen all of the time, every day, right.

[00:26:31] When we have to like work harder than we should, right. When we're not respected in our workplaces, when we're dealing with, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia racism in our workplace, when we are, forced to pay exorbitant rent in, places that have been gentrified, things like that, right?

[00:26:54] Like those are all little injuries. Even people in the United States, I think, particularly white people who are in, position of having like a lot of money and many generations of wealth, like a lot of that generational wealth is accumulated through violence. So that is a source of injury and it lives in your lineage and it lives in your DNA and in your psyche around money.

[00:27:24] Right. So I think that there is very few people. I can't imagine anybody, but there's very few people alive on this moment on the planet that are not kind of getting a rough, a rough financial existence that don't already have a rough, aren't getting a little, like some scrapes and bruises. So those are the like direct injuries.

[00:27:48] The other lens would be to say that we exist, like we're born, with an evolutionary purpose. And part of that purpose is to take a particular journey with a particular curriculum. And we evolve through that. And that evolution is a form of healing. We are healing in our lineages, we're healing in our families.

[00:28:14] We are, all of us healing, some type of trauma, right? Like an undissectable experience from our childhood. And that's just part of the job of being human and for me and my lens, because I'm such a like healing centric person, I feel like that's one of the predominant purposes of being alive of human existence.

[00:28:38] So I don't think of it as like something that is wrong in order to be healing. It's more like healing is a form of evolution.

[00:28:47] Emily Thompson: Hmm.

[00:28:48] I love that what, oh, better way of seeing it. And I also really love that you're touching on this idea that is humans alive in what the world is right now. Every single one of us is carrying some sort of, bit of financial, baggage that needs to be addressed, whether you are filthy rich or incredibly poor.

[00:29:12] Right? Exactly. Full spectrum of we're all a little messed up when it comes to our finances. And so we all have some healing to do around it.

[00:29:23] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: And it made me, I like this kind of pulling apart of, heal your finances because it makes me realize it could also be called, wisdom in rituals to evolve your finances, to mature your finances, to, just like find peace within your finances.

[00:29:42] Emily Thompson: Yes. Oh, I'm loving this notion of evolution and finances, because I do feel like that is what that's, what's really sort of being called on to happen right now. Right? Like, whereas, global wealth coming from, not from great places, right. Whereas a lot of our individual wealth coming from not from great places, whenever you really sort of dig in and deeper in this idea of evolving, if we can evolve the situations around our personal wealth, that sort of ripples outward.

[00:30:12] And as we do that, we sort of engage a healing in the entirety of economy. That just feels very pie in the sky. Fabulous.

[00:30:20] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: Exactly. Like when we do this work, we contribute that healing to our families, our partnerships, our communities, and to the larger human community, right? Like we are much more able to show up in

[00:30:38] these challenges, these communal challenges that, we're just in, right? Like we are in a set of communal challenges. And, and I know that everybody who's listening like cares, they care about being able to show up in, in whatever kind of individual way to a solution, a healing and evolution and addressing of these challenges.

[00:31:08] And what really stops us from being able to do that is how preoccupied we are with our own individual mess injuries, wounds, dramas, right on resolved issues. So when we really face the issue is acknowledge that they're there, address them directly, put language to them and think about what we need to do to get some, some shifts, some movement, some change, all words that mean healing to me than it's like, okay, we're four to five to go out and contribute to the larger human community.

[00:31:52] Emily Thompson: Everyone go do some healing of your finances. It's for an incredibly good calls that that just lives a virus under me that I did not even know weren't lit yet. That's, that's wonderful. I'd love to dive maybe a little bit deeper into, well, one the book, but also just generally what you do, because as the money, which, and in your book, money magic, you are pairing this very practical, like financial advice and experience and like, to do list, right.

[00:32:24] Maybe not to lists, but these actions people can take with mystical rituals, which we are quite a fan of here in Being Boss. I also love that you're meeting at the intersection of money and spirituality, which we have talked on the show many times before in the past that these two things are intrinsically linked.

[00:32:44] And you are diving right into those things. So I think for most people listening, I think everyone listening, practical advice feels absolutely standard when it comes to, talking money. I would love to hear from you as to where you think the power lies in adding ritual to your money practices.

[00:33:03] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: I have this pyramid drawing in my book and it's also on my website and I call it the three angles of healing. So to me, if you want to heal or evolve or see gains or wins, or however you feel comfortable phrasing it right on any issue, right. We're talking about money. This could be anything. I think if you address it from all three angles, In parallel, right?

[00:33:31] It doesn't have to be exactly simultaneously, but in the same time period, or make sure that you're tending to all three angles, then you're going to see the most movement on whatever it is that you're trying to heal or evolve. And those are one logistical practical, right? So that's what you're saying.

[00:33:52] Just, the advice the, to do list, get the knowledge, get some literacy, check it off the list. There's what I call emotional spiritual, which means what is going on for you personally, these wounds that we're talking about, right? Like what are the kind of hot topics in your personal history that are impacting your financial life?

[00:34:17] And I include spiritual in that because to me, spiritual is about your personal path of your spirit on this earth. Right? So there's challenges that are a part of your personal spirit path. And then the third angle is magical, energetic, so magical, energetic to me. Like what magic means to me is taking responsibility for yourself as an energetic entity.

[00:34:44] And then acknowledging which at this point, I feel like that's just science, right? Like we're reading that all the time, with physics and et cetera, right? Like we are energetic beings. We have impact on the environment around us. And if we're able to impact the environment directly around us, we are therefore able to impact more largely as well.

[00:35:09] And then we're acknowledging that everyone else and everything else has an energetic power as well. So for example, I know that your crowd is very familiar with crystals, right? So, and in the book, every chapter of my book has a couple of crystal friends. Like I call them allies that you could work with to do like the work of that chapter.

[00:35:33] Because to me that's working that magical energetic angle of healing is saying, yeah, okay. I am going to do my bookkeeping on time for all of this year. I'm going to make sure that I'm keeping up to date on it. And I'm going to notice maybe on the emotional side that I do have a tendency tendency towards avoidance, let me, do some journaling or talking therapy about like, why am I avoiding this?

[00:36:01] Because that's going to help you be more successful in showing up to the bookkeeping rather than just beating yourself up about like, oh, why can't I do my bookkeeping? But then remembering that third angle, like, you know what I have. Magical ability because I have energy, I have an energetic capacity.

[00:36:21] And so if I put my energetic weight on it with intention in a direction, then I am going to have impact. And then maybe I can ask for assistance from some energetic allies. Right? So that could be a crystal that could be a plant that can be, an angel that can be, any kind of tarot archetype or something like that.

[00:36:50] Right. But when you remember that your sphere of agency and your sphere of impact is not just, the practical actions of checking things off your to-do list, but your sphere of agency increases when you also work in these additional ones.

[00:37:14] Emily Thompson: I love this so much because what you are describing here is really the three points of a more holistic approach to all the things that we've talked about.

[00:37:27] Because as you're saying this, I can absolutely think of scenarios where I've had. I've been coaching bosses or, listening in on Monday meetups in the community or whatever. And someone has, done one, but it's still struggling. So, maybe they're showing up and doing the practical stuff all day, every day and nothing's working, but they still have really awful money mindsets.

[00:37:46] Right? The emotions they have in moment around money are not being addressed. They're just showing up and doing the work. And if anything, probably driving them like further into the hole because they're creating

[00:37:57] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: shame for sure. Like when you pull and it doesn't work, you're like, oh, there's something wrong with.

[00:38:05] And, and when you don't take the time to get specific, I'm like, yeah, there is something wrong with you, but there's a challenge there, right? Like there's, there's an injury, there's a wounding there, there's something present there with you. Do that is like asking to be heard. And when you don't take the time to actually listen to it and sort it out, then it's just sort of this general inkling, like, oh, there's something wrong with me.

[00:38:31] And then we lump it under the sort of umbrella category, which is shame. And then we just feel like, well, I'll never be able to do this. It leads to more avoidance or it leads to, lessening, self-esteem, all those things that then make it even harder to show up for the practical things that you're showing up.

[00:38:49] Emily Thompson: Yes. And then you add on top of this, this sort of magical energetic piece, let's say you have shown up and you you're doing the practical work, right. You have also added on this idea of addressing whatever sort of inner situation, whatever blocks you need to work on to help make this, this practical thing work, but you're still not getting anywhere because your surroundings are, full of things that make you unhappy, or you're not focusing other parts of your energy on this as well.

[00:39:22] I absolutely can pinpoint multiple times that I've seen this be the case as well, where on the outside it looks like you're doing everything right. But if you're not sort of including, I guess, like your soul on the journey, right. Then, then you're still not quite there yet. And so I love that this, this pyramid.

[00:39:44] That you've identified really does pull together all three pieces of this and us, a pretty simple structure for, for really holistically going at, I guess, any goal that you may have.

[00:39:58] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: Totally. And we've all seen [00:40:00] people who spend time in one of those other angles and don't get to the logistical practical as well.

[00:40:06] Right? Like, it's like, you can light your money candle and be like, I want my business to make a million dollars. And then it's like, but are you doing your bookkeeping now? Okay. Wow. It's like, you have to, you really do have to hit them all. And it doesn't have to be that pressure of like, everyday I need to be doing all of these things, but kind of that ideal of like, is there just looking like at that little pyramid, like, is there one of these angles that I'm really just, need to.

[00:40:39] Kind of get in and spend some time in that I, I'm going really hard in this, these other two pieces, but here's a place where I'm like, yeah, not necessarily showing up for the process.

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[00:41:52] One of the things I've joked around or joked about here on the show. And very specifically, I have a weekly mastermind group called the C-suite, in [00:42:00] the community. And one of the things that we've sort of coined over there is this idea of, of holistic capitalism. And I think that we've just added, a reference for, for our education on holistic capitalism, because that's exactly sort of a model that you've given us here for, for going after those things and achieving the things that you want to achieve, but doing it in a truly holistic way so that you are sort of serving, guests like physical, emotional, and energetic realms, which is, is so key.

[00:42:32] I've never heard it quite like that. But it even just clicked in my head in a totally new and different way. So I appreciate that. Perfect. So I would love to hear from you, and this can either be maybe your favorite example from the book, or maybe it's something that you were not able to add into the book, because I think the practical stuff we get, right?

[00:42:53] Like do your bookkeeping, invoice your clients, collect the money, count it, spend it where appropriate. Like we get that more or less. What about this ritual side? Can you give us an example of a money ritual, that will give us a look at what this sort of magical energetic part of this pyramid may include?

[00:43:17] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: Yeah, a real easy one that, I love and I. I don't think it's in the book. It might be in there just sort of as a casual mention every chapter of the book. So the book is built off a seven step system to heal your finances, right? Like I kind of lay out the whole structure of the technology of how you could do that.

[00:43:38] And every chapter, as I said, it opens with, this kind of toolbox, energetic, magical toolbox that has, an astrological archetype, a tarot archetype, a cup of tea made of herbs that I think could support you the crystals and that every chapter finishes with a ritual. So we kind of start and begin a bookend, I guess, each chapter with the magical aspect of it.

[00:44:05] And I don't think this one made it in that context, they might be mentioned somewhere else. And it's a really simple thing that, any of us have been kind of involved in, money and magic it anyway have definitely heard of before, but it's always a good reminder, which is the ritual of like writing yourself a check from the universe.

[00:44:26] And I think it's a good one because it's a pretty accessible ritual. It doesn't take a lot of time, but the idea is that you would take, you can kind of buy these checks online. They kind of very rampant in like law of attraction communities. You can draw one. I know you have so many creators, right?

[00:44:47] You could draw or paint one. That's a really fun exercise. You can use a check from your own checkbook, but I kind of like the idea that it doesn't come directly from your bank, because the idea is that you are sort of getting paid from the bank of the universe, the bank of abundance. I used to have these play checks that I got at party city that I love that.

[00:45:08] So they were from the bank of fun. I like to write myself a check from the bank of fun, so it could be from the bank of whatever. But you're writing your name on the to line and this can be done with a specific goal in mind. Right. So maybe you are. Doing a launch and you're like, I want to hit this number with my launch.

[00:45:32] Okay. So you're going to do your ritual at the beginning of your launch. And you're going to write this check, with a certain date on it. And you're going to say, from the universe or maybe it's a goal for the year, I'm you do it on January 1st? It can also just be a check that you write that doesn't have a particular number attached to it.

[00:45:52] You can write paid in full in the numbers, a line on your check, and it can just be a knowingness and a trust that like the money that you need will come to you. And as part of this ritual, Let's just say, since we're a creative crowd, like drawing or painting, the check is part of the ritual. All right. So we've created this check.

[00:46:18] Maybe we've decorated it. I'm seeing like green water color painting. Maybe some like metallic pads, like what I, stickers, whatever you want. And then we, written it out and this is a part of our ritual and I would light a candle and put the check under the candle in a fire safe way.

[00:46:43] Of course. So, there could be addition between, but I would light a candle and just sit with the candle and say your prayers out loud. I always, I love angel. It's always a reminder like, oh, the angels can't help you unless you ask them explicitly or tell them that it's okay to help you. So, asking your ancestors, asking the angels, asking the universe, whatever resonates with you to put their power behind, bringing this prayer into your life, bringing this paid in full or this particular amount into your life.

[00:47:21] And also asking for the lessons that you need to be shown in order to be a person who is ready to both generate and receive that type of money and announcing that you are ready. Right. Like I want to know, like, I want the lessons. I want to know what I need to know to do this. Like I'm not afraid of that information.

[00:47:51] And, just praying with your candle. Yeah.

[00:47:53] Emily Thompson: Yeah. I love this on so many levels too. And it's funny too, because this ritual in some capacity has been shared on the podcast a time or two before, but like, we've been around for seven plus years, hundreds of episodes, like it's in the archives somewhere.

[00:48:09] And I haven't thought about it in literally years. And so, as you're saying this one, you're reminding me of a tactic that I've completely forgotten about. And two, you've added some extra juice to it, which I love sort of the evolution of this practice. And it's in now that I'm, a couple of years down the road as well.

[00:48:30] Me all the ads sort of a wiser perspective to it. There's two things that I want to point out about this practice that I'm feeling as you're talking about it around one, the expansion that this energetically causes you to sort of, loosen yourself into, right? This, this idea of just sort of putting this out into the universe.

[00:48:54] And I think this is so important because when most creatives in particular are, and really, and, or business owners who are struggling with making it happen in the way that they want it to happen, there is this such a sense of lack and, and constructiveness, I guess, around money that this is, this is a practice that will absolutely energetically loosen.

[00:49:20] That energy that you have around money. And then also it's requiring you to release control, or at least this sense of knowing around when and where this is coming from and how you're going to get it because we're a bunch of Type A's a hundred percent. And this practice is really great for just opening you up to opportunities that, that you couldn't define.

[00:49:50] And shouldn't because you should be opening yourself up to things you can't even imagine.

[00:49:55] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: This is that faith trust, surrender, that a lot of us struggle with, but you're not, you, you can't see everything, you just don't have the capacity, the, the vantage point to see everything right? So as business people, we are tasked with implementing our visions and creating a plan and making it happen and attempting to, create an outcome, a specific outcome, but there's always something we don't know.

[00:50:41] And I think a lot of us, certainly people who have been in business for as long as you and I, or even longer, we have all had incidences where something didn't work out and we felt bad about ourselves. We felt disappointed. We felt, whatever we felt, but it was a blessing in the end. And, that's, that's just true.

[00:51:09] That's just.

[00:51:11] Emily Thompson: Yep for sure. And also this idea of, you don't know what's going to happen. You don't know where things are going to come from. Aren't you glad that you don't like, think about how lame our journeys would be. If we knew the next step every single time, it would be the most mundane existence.

[00:51:30] I don't want that. I can't

[00:51:32] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: even, I'm trying to like actually viscerally. Experience what that would even be like, and I need to sit with it for a longer,

[00:51:44] Emily Thompson: I mean, for me it feels like boring and how expected and like, and honestly it feels a little bit like a lack of, of maybe even FreeWheel because like this path is sort of laid out in front of you and you do it.

[00:51:56] I, I love this idea of really embracing the excitement and the magic and the, the, like the fun of not knowing where things are coming from. And I love that. I love that this ritual is also just a practice and a recognition and calling in of more of that. Because that's when life gets fun, is when things would have come out of nowhere and, and happen unexpectedly.

[00:52:21] And you're sort of walking through and you have no idea, like the energy swirling around you. And that that's the kind of existence that I want at least so our badges, for sure, for sure. Perfect. Well, as we start sort of wrapping this up, I would love to hear if you have any sort of final piece or pieces of advice that you would like to give to any creative business owner listening to this right now,

[00:52:49] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: I would say that completely surrendering to the reality that you have to get close with your finances, understand your finances, be intimate with your financial information.

[00:53:15] Can be, I mean, number one, it's a necessity, but also it can be relieving in this way that we're talking about. Right? Like surrender, trust faith, because it reminds me of like being in a river, you know? And it's like when we're resisting something. It can feel fun, right? Like we all like to go in the ocean and have a wave crash on us or stand in the river and feel the water flow on us.

[00:53:39] But it gets tiring. Resistance is very tiring and things that are tiring are taking our energy and all of us need our creative energy. We need our visionary energy. We need our implementation energy. And when we are spending some of that resisting something that we cannot resist, like it is an essential part of business.

[00:54:07] Right. And just, even if we weren't in business, it would be an essential part of our individual lives and getting to our goals, like when we're not wasting our energy resisting. We will be given the gift of that energy, like back to us, to do with it, what we will. And I think like that's a beautiful gift.

[00:54:31] So I think sometimes the resistance can even feel like a little bit of self care. We feel like we're letting ourselves indulged by avoiding things and who doesn't like a little indulgence here, right. Or a little bad behavior, the bad girl inside of us, like, okay. But it's like, it's kind of self-harming, at the end of the day, it's, it's not self care.

[00:55:01] Right? What, what is self caring is like dropping the avoidance, dropping the resistance and taking your finances seriously, taking you and your finances seriously. And in a way that is. Like we're saying involving this aspect also of like trust and wonder and surrender and kind of like, not being in charge of everything, you're not in charge of everything, but you are in charge of something.

[00:55:29] So taking control of what you do have control over, which is like showing up to meet the path, right? Like the path is not up to us really, but showing up to meet whatever the path and brings like what kind of shape we're in to show up to meet it. That is what we are in control of.

[00:55:49] Emily Thompson: Amen to that. It was literally having conversation with, with someone the other day, I'm going through a growth phase as well.

[00:55:56] And they were like, are you not stress? Like what's going on? I was like, honestly, the only thing I know I have control over. And the only thing I know that I need to do is show up. You just need to like, I'll show up. The things will happen. It'll get done. I'm not worried about it. I just, I, I control what I can I'm showing up.

[00:56:10] So I second that whole heartedly, that was such a great piece of advice. And I love this idea that, or this fact that resistance is tired. Because I think that's absolutely true. As you said that I, I even felt myself melt a little bit, because it is, and I think so many, so many of us, hold resistance in so many ways and we don't need to, so I appreciate that insight.

[00:56:36] I think that that hopefully just hit home for a lot of bosses listening to this. And I so appreciate you so appreciate you sharing it. Jessie Suzannah, this has been such a treat I would love for you to share with the bosses listening, where they can find more about you and what you do and where they can find this fabulous book.

[00:56:58] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: Okay, well, you can primarily find me on my website moneywitch.com on that website, there is a page for the book. It has all the links to all the places with the eBooks and the audible and all of that. It is available anywhere. Books are sold and you can find me in terms of social media, mostly on Instagram, at @money.witch I have a YouTube channel as well, which will be dropping a lot of new videos this year.

[00:57:31] I am on Twitter. I am, oh Lord. All the places searcher everywhere. You'll find it. I think the website is, it's all there. I have a Money Magic Shop, so I make, money magic products, using crystals, gem, essences, elixirs, and teas, and all kinds of little friends that can help you energetically in this work.

[00:57:59] And I have some online courses, all of that is going to be held in that hub at moneywitch.com.

[00:58:07] Emily Thompson: Wonderful. And my very last favorite question is what's making you feel most boss.

[00:58:18] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: Right now in the release of my book, something that I have been reveling in and it has been really lifting me up is the experience of seeing so much support from my community. Like all these other business babes, all these other, internet friends that we all have really taking the time to share the book, to talk about like what my work has meant to them.

[00:58:51] And in that I have really seen, I think so many of the like little seeds of effort and care and love that I have planted out in the business community come back to me. And that is making me feel just really elevated right now.

[00:59:09] Emily Thompson: Yeah, best feeling in the world. Jessie Suzannah this was such a treat. Thank you so much for coming and chatting with me about all of this.

[00:59:18] Jessie Suzannah Karnatz: Thank you.

[00:59:22] Emily Thompson: All right boss, because you're here. I know you want to be a better creative at business owner, which means I've got something for you each week. The team at Being Boss is scouring the news, the best entrepreneurial publications and updates and releases of the apps and tools that run our businesses and is curating it all into a weekly email that delivers the must know tips and tactics in the realms of mindset, money and productivity.

[00:59:45] This email is called Brewed. We brew it up for you each week to give you the insight you need to make decisions and move forward in your creative business. Check it out now and sign up for yourself at beingboss.club/brewed. That's beingboss.club/B R E W E D. Now until next time, do the work, be boss.