Releasing the Sense of Urgency in Business with Erica Courdae

[00:00:00] Emily Thompson: Welcome to Being Boss, a podcast for creatives, business owners and entrepreneurs who want to take control of their work and live life on their own terms. I'm your host, Emily Thompson. And today I'm joined by my friend, Erica Courdae to talk about letting go of your sense of urgency, the difference between reacting and responding and how to resolve conflict responsibly as a business owner, you can find all the tools, books, and links

[00:00:25] we referenced on the show notes at www.beingboss.club. And if you like this episode, be sure to subscribe to this show and share us with a friend.

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[00:01:37] Erica Courdae is a trusted advisor to entrepreneurs and executive teams committed to shifting focus, power and resources in order to create more equity in their business and the world. She believes imperfect action is necessary to create meaningful social change and helps public figures engage in the work without fear of judgment. In 2018

[00:01:58] Erica co-founded the Pause on the play podcast. After receiving requests from listeners for a space to connect on the shows topics, Erica expanded the Pause and the play brand to include a community and consultancy. Her leadership has now helped hundreds of individuals define their values, diversify their networks, and call people into conversations about inclusivity and individuality.

[00:02:22] She can be heard on previous episodes here on the Being Boss podcast and episode number 236, 247 and 266.

[00:02:32] Erica, welcome back to Being Boss.

[00:02:34] Erica Courdae: Thank you. I'm so glad to be here as always.

[00:02:37] Emily Thompson: I am super excited about this chat. Just so everyone knows, Erica is one of my business besties. We are consistently chatting about not really even just business, probably less business than anything, actually, if I'm being quite honest.

[00:02:54] And one of the things that I love about having relationships with people who do business is that, and relationships with people who also are frequent guests in the podcast is sometimes they just message me. And they're like, Hey, can I come talk about this thing? And nine times out of 10, I'm going to be like, of course you can.

[00:03:13] And so you popped up in my Marco polo a couple of weeks ago, and you were like, I have this thing on my mind that I would love to come chat with you about, and at that time, the topic was urgency. And in our previous discussions around this as sort of molded into something else, but I would love sort of two things from me to get us kicked off.

[00:03:33] One is what have you been up to since the last time we chatted? And two, what has you wanting to have this conversation today?

[00:03:42] Erica Courdae: Let's see. Well, I've been up to what I'm always up to, which is getting people to pay attention to things that may be, have become root in life and how their values show up, how diversity equity and inclusion shows up.

[00:03:57] Continuing to have these conversations in business, in life, on the podcast, over in pause and the play. And honestly, it's, it's kinda been nice to hit a point to where this is more of a space of people that want to do the work, have wanted to do the work. And we're just doing what we do versus the urgency of, I need to fix something that has been a problem long-term that was prompted by an external event.

[00:04:27] So it's actually been really nice to step out of that space. Full transparency absolutely put me in burnout and to be more in a space of like maintenance in like, okay, what, what are we doing on kind of a regular basis? And what's the regular life pieces versus, oh shit, here we are.

[00:04:45] Emily Thompson: Oh, right. Oh, I love that you bring up this like burnout topic.

[00:04:49] Cause I feel like that's something so many people are feeling right now and I've been able to witness your prioritization of you taking care of yourself and like shifting your mindset around, really putting your own needs first and those sorts of things. So can you touch on that just a little bit?

[00:05:04] Like what does that look like for you to, dig yourself out of that hole or continue digging yourself a hole as it may be?

[00:05:14] Erica Courdae: Well, cause that's a constant thing. Cause I feel like depending on what's happening at that moment as somebody that can easily pick up the emotions of what's happening around me, it's a regular thing of like, wait, wait, wait that, Nope, that's not mine.

[00:05:27] Put this bag down and walk away from it. And part of it is something that I know you will appreciate, which is saying no, like just not, whether it is just something that would have been a no previously or meet us feeling like if it's not a hard, yes. Is a no, because I don't want to do things just because I think I have to, I don't want to do things just because of any fear or scarcity of what, if this doesn't come again.

[00:05:58] What if something better doesn't come again because I have yet to be proven that that's factual the things that I say no to it's like, great. I left space with something I really want to do. This is awesome. So proving that to myself, I think is a huge piece of self-care because then there's less anxiety of

[00:06:19] what's going to happen next? What, what does me opting out of something that I'm just not feeling me? Or how does this support the types of relationships I want? Because I am saying yes, in places that matter and not having to worry about these, the money attached to it or the visibility attached to it.

[00:06:40] It's simply what I feel as though is the best for me and my intuition guides me well, and I listened to her.

[00:06:47] Emily Thompson: Yes, you do. Perfect. And I felt like even what you're saying to you as a great precursor to what we're talking about, because you have been in the line of work that you do, you have been so subject to the urgency and the needs for immediate response and all of these things in, in your sort of field of work and sort of came to me and you were like, I'm done, let's talk about this.

[00:07:13] Like we have got to release this idea that everything is so urgent. I think we're going to be like, sort of poking at that a little bit today, but this has come from sounds like a process for you of releasing that urgency in your own life and work?

[00:07:33] Erica Courdae: Oh my gosh. I mean, if I actually kind of sit back as if I'm watching the movie of my own life, being able to clearly pinpoint places where urgency was instilled in me from a young age of this needs to be done.

[00:07:49] Now, this is a, a life or death thing and it's really not, but the energy around it absolutely feels that way. And to have then at some point adopted it in a way that I put that on my own energy behind that, that really amplified that, that urgency of like, I don't go do this right now. What does that mean?

[00:08:13] And I think about things like when I was younger, people would always say to me, you're so responsible for being so young or, you seem like you're older and I've always kind of been an old soul. And yet at the same time, part of it came from like, Oh, yes, I'm young, but I don't want anybody to think that I'm not professional.

[00:08:34] So if I don't do these things, just so people are going to have a story about me and I don't want that. And it's like, first of all, I have no control over somebody's story about me. Number two, that's not the thing. And I convinced myself because of the programming that I adopted, because I have to take responsibility for it.

[00:08:53] Cause some people like, oh, I don't want you to programming. There were pieces I did adopt. And I'm like, oh, I don't, I don't like this. I don't like putting my own worth on somebody else's opinion of me, which is not my damn business, nor do I care. And so that comes with age. At least it has for me.

[00:09:15] Emily Thompson: Good, good.

[00:09:16] And even as you're saying that I'm, I'm even thinking of myself to I, for a long time, it was a goal of mine to be on some arbitrary because they never even defined it like 30, under 30 list. Right. Right. And like, it's good that y'all, a hundred percent screw that. I then now that I'm older and wiser and like, I have a better perspective of the world.

[00:09:40] Like I know that most of those lists are total bullshit anyhow. Right. And so you're right. We are really instilled with these ideas that we should rush and get things done quickly. And that sort of trickles into all things that we do. How, like also just very American of us. [00:10:00]

[00:10:00] Erica Courdae: It feels so American exceptionalism to me because it's like, I'm exceptional because I have the wherewithal to do these things that other people just can't pull themselves by their bootstraps and do it every day.

[00:10:13] Hustle, hustle, hustle. Oh, hell no. Oh no, it's a lie. No, because somebody capitalizes off of you beating yourself down emotionally or physically to do these things, whether it's because they made money off of you or somehow you are now, struggling from an emotional standpoint and now you have to buy into a need a therapist.

[00:10:35] I am not judging it cause I have therapists too. And it's another part of buying into the system of breaking yourself for somebody else's benefit. No, thank you for rushing. For what?

[00:10:47] Emily Thompson: Yeah. Right. And it trickles down into like, I'm also thinking of things like, whenever you are doing course launches or sales, like it's such a part of marketing too.

[00:10:59] [00:11:00] You're talking about like these unrealistic expectations in terms of speed, but also beauty. Like those two things are like, you have to be beautiful and fast y'all if you want to succeed. Right. That is what the world is telling us. And and I feel like over the past two years, we've all had these opportunities to slow down, to see the benefits.

[00:11:21] I'll never forget a couple of months ago seeing like a tweet somewhere that was something along the lines of like, never forget that when we had to stop, we picked up things like dancing and baking. Like, like those are the things that we went back to. And so now that we're, I think many people are calling this post pandemic though.

[00:11:43] I think for that, right? Like

[00:11:48] we are, we really post to work towards the tail end of it. But the world is picking back up and I think there are some people who, like, I think there's like a broad spectrum. There's people who are never going to speed back up. And I love that for you guys, if that's, gonna make you happy. There are those who are like adjusting and finding a new normal that is hopefully at a lesser speed than we were at before.

[00:12:14] There are those that are like, Unwillingly getting right back at that, at that pace, right. Who are forced to, because of jobs and circumstances and all of these things. And there are people who were just like, you can't wait, can't wait to get back to doing it. And so I, I feel like this is even a reflection of that, that, like now that things are picking back up so many are just going face first back into the sort of urgency that was, that was once our everyday life.

[00:12:47] And I think this is going to be a little reflection on how we can not do that and still get things done and be proud of our work and feel good about what we're doing and make an impact and all of those things without feeding back into the monster that brought us here.

[00:13:06] Erica Courdae: I think what you said is completely accurate.

[00:13:08] And I think it's a reminder that when the pandemic first started, a lot of us were thinking in terms of when will we get back to normal air quotes as if that was ever normal or acceptable or, okay. Yep. And even if we really are post pandemic, which I don't know, but okay. Even if we are going right, it's like maybe, even if that's the case, I think that it's smart to really question,

[00:13:44] what do you want to bring forth? And what do you want to leave where it was? What do you want to do differently versus simply assuming that that was the standard that you want to uphold. And so being able to really say, okay, this is where I am now. Because everything that I went through has conditioned me and given me some, some extra insight and in ways of being so from a place of being aware and conscious of my choices, what do I want to bring forward?

[00:14:16] What do I want to leave in the past? And what do I want to embody and amplify in the future?

[00:14:24] Emily Thompson: Oh, all of that wonderful self-awareness you're talking about. Y'all need to sit down and do some journaling, right? Some self inquiry figure all those things out for yourself. Because we do sort of have this sort of maybe upcoming opportunity and I will be super transparent because I feel like timelines still continued to be so whack.

[00:14:47] We're actually recording this in late February. I'm recording up a bunch of things early so that I can take a little bit of a summer break. So I know this isn't coming out for a minute. Who knows what's going to be happening in the world between February and April.

[00:15:02] Who knows. We'll see when we get there.

[00:15:06] So, as we say this, I do want to put that timeline behind it because there is a bit of a, a bit of a gap between the two. But I hope we have this opportunity to sort of redefine what our lives and businesses in particular look like as we move forward and learn from everything that's happened.

[00:15:25] I mean, always, but especially over the past couple of years, because I do what I do when I talk. Really specifically today is, is the urgency is dropping the urgency around being responsive in your business or as a brand. This is like, this is the nugget you really wanted to dig in there on. Because you have people coming to you consistently who need to fix problems right now because they're bad problems that always needed to be fixed, but they just realized that it's actually time to fix them.

[00:16:01] So I'd love to hear from you. What made you, what made you come to me with this what's happening? Who said something to you to have them in a place where you want to talk about what it looks like to, to release the urgency of response as a business or a brand, for bosses.

[00:16:26] Erica Courdae: Well, one of the big things is obviously you just use the word response.

[00:16:29] And I think that reminder that we want to pause and respond versus for react is a big piece of the heart that's being lost because people are simply being reactive. And I find it very interesting that life will present challenges for you based on whether or not you have learned the lessons that it has previously presented.

[00:16:55] And so many people will fail and sure enough, here we are again, and people are still reacting and I'm like, did we not learn the first 10 times that this isn't serving you? This doesn't serve anybody else. And. Big ways, small ways, medium ways. There's all these things where it's like, you're constantly being so reactive and that doesn't serve anybody.

[00:17:23] And part of it was obviously the fact that when people decided, oh, this thing that you've been talking about for a while now. Yeah. I need that. And I need it. Now, there was that initial, reactiveness that, like I said, kind of pushed me into burnout. And then me being like, oh no, no, I've been black my whole life.

[00:17:42] And y'all just realized today that this black woman can help you. You could wait a couple more days. Fine. Like, it's fine. Don't like, don't decide to then come dump that on me because you have chosen to not deal with it anymore and you want to offload it. But I found it really interesting that I had been consistently seeing that.

[00:18:06] The work that I do really brings urgency and that reactivity to the surface because people are so afraid of what happens if I don't fix it now. What happens if it goes another day? What happens if I don't make changes that are visible to the public to witness. And the reality is, is that if that didn't matter yesterday, today is not the day to decide to rush everything because that is just disingenuous.

[00:18:41] And I noticed that coming up, obviously, like I said, back in 2020, I mean, honestly, not even just to the death of George Ford, but we saw that happen with the pandemic. Everybody wanted to be the first person to hop in your inbox with yet another email that had COVID in the subject line. And it was like, please stop, stop it.

[00:19:00] Why? And fast forward now to 2022. And when everything happened around Spotify, that. Have I talked about on my podcast around the fact that it was a lack of transparency around values, how they intersected with boundaries and what happens next, when they're violated, that was what was happening and nothing to do with the individuals.

[00:19:28] And I noticed how people were like, I have to talk about this now. And I'm like, Hmm, we're doing this again. And I'm like, this is just a smaller, much smaller scale repeat of what was a large scale back in 2020, I was like, oh, we need to do this now. And you would go on Instagram and people would put the black square, which I laid in the people about it.

[00:19:49] You can feel free to go dig back if you want that line. And I was like, wait, so we're rushing to do something. We don't know why we're doing. There's nothing else connected to it. I was like, oh, we doing this again. And I noticed how there was one, the rush to address it as if it was something that we needed to address versus pausing to look inward and be like, Hmm.

[00:20:13] Is there anything that I am noticing is something that I'm doing this reflected in this that I can shift and maybe taking it as an opportunity to kind of audit what you can do for yourself. So you don't end up in that place too. Everybody was judging and it's like, but this is just giving more attention to it.

[00:20:34] You missed the whole point of, Hey, here's another lesson universe knocking at your door. Like, did you pay attention? And for me, part of what came up was that I am not a news ticker. I am not here to comment on all of these things and most of us are not. And so as opposed to jumping into this. To be the person to get the scoop, to come out and tell everybody what our thoughts are on something that just simply shouldn't have and did not need to happen.

[00:21:04] What can we do in our space as business owners to not be vet? How can we be an example of how this can be done better? Because what I think a lot of us forget is that we have an opportunity to be small enough to remind big businesses the exact thing that they forgot. Hey, we still make money and we have ethics and we make good choices.

[00:21:29] Not that we're perfect, but like there's a way to keep those things and still grow. We have an opportunity to reflect that and that reactivity that showed up and we were forgetting all of it.

[00:21:40] Emily Thompson: Right.

[00:21:41] One of the things that came up for me, as you were saying, this is like, yes, to the pause. I feel like we were talking about previously with just like marketing, but also think of the speed of the internet and how quickly everything's, how everything happens.

[00:21:56] We do fill this need to immediately respond to all things, right. And even think about, and I'm even thinking about this really incredibly small scale with a customer service issue. Someone sends you an email, something has gone wrong, you get heated immediately. Like I know what it feels like. I know that feeling and you want to spout off immediately or fix it immediately or whatever it may be, as opposed to just like.

[00:22:20] Taking a pause, seeing what, what broke, what did not work? What part of the process was non-functional? Is it something that you're responsible for or something that someone else is responsible for and responding in a way that is not just an action, but the most impactful action that you can take?

[00:22:42] Because I think that's the difference, right. Is just taking an action so that people can see you take an action or so that you can like, make yourself feel better for taking an immediate action legitimately, right. Or legitimately taking the time to make the most impactful action you can possibly.

[00:23:03] Erica Courdae: Right because too often, what you said is what happens of, I need to take an action. So that, that weird tingling, anxious, awkward feeling that I have, because I feel like I did something wrong. And for some people it divulges into, I am wrong. You're trying to assuage that. You're trying to make that go away and you likely are going to miss what's actually happening.

[00:23:29] You might not actually send out the thing that helps to address. What happened? Like whether that's, here's my reply, here's the link you need. Here's the information that may be got missed in some prior, whatever that thing is, it's like, you're so focused on. I don't feel good. And it's like, well, you actually just put some extra kerosene on this.

[00:23:55] And that was to beat because you're, you're, you’re rushing and you're holding it so tightly and you're missing things. And we have to, first of all, remember making a mistake or a misstep does not mean you are wrong. And I feel like people need to first understand that because I feel like a lot of the reactivity comes from a place of trying to defend your own self-worth and self-value because you feel as though I am wrong and that's not the case.

[00:24:34] We have to make sure that we're disconnecting our worth with, our missteps. I, I don't think that that one moment in time has to be your legacy if it literally is exactly that a moment in time and it's not reflective of everything else, that's happening, allow it to be something that you can let go.[00:25:00]

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[00:25:44] We use HubSpot to track all of our wholesale accounts and prospects. We're honestly just scratching the surface and HubSpot's capabilities, but it's really nice to know that we're set up in a system that has the features we'll need as. We track the contact information for all of our wholesale stockists and leads and HubSpot. There's so much data that we can add for each stockist, not just email and address, but any personal notes.

[00:26:07] The last time they ordered or special requirements, when it's time to reach out to our accounts, we can filter so that we're sending more personalized messages to each store. And that is super helpful. My HubSpot CRM platform helps my business. They connected learn more about how I can do the same for yours hubspot.com.

[00:26:29] Emily Thompson: I'm loving this line of thought around and being wrong and being okay with being wrong and actually taking the time to turn a wrong into a right. Instead of just adding a wrong on top of a wrong then that

[00:26:42] cause I feel like, I feel like there's so much in there. And one of the things that I want to dig into, I was reading somewhere the other day.

[00:26:50] I cannot for the life of me, remember where, but, it was talking about how one of the sort of hallmarks of an entrepreneur is that you're okay being wrong. And that you literally go out what you do with an expectation because you legit should go at it with an expectation that you were going to be wrong. And sitting with being wrong is not easy for hardly anyone, but it should be easiest for those of us who are embracing entrepreneurship.

[00:27:21] Right. We should learn to sit and own that discomfort because it's literally in some cases, something that we're aiming for and we're going to go do so much stuff that some of it's going to be wrong and you have to feel it and you have to not be immediately defensive about it. I see this so often, especially amongst baby bosses.

[00:27:42] This idea whenever they get called out for something and not like bad called out, but like. Maybe I can think of one scenario in particular or, I was in a mastermind group situation with a couple of bosses and one of them was a baby boss who was trying to like talk herself into making her first hire.

[00:28:02] Right. And the things that were coming out of her mouth were the usual things of like, no one can do it better than me. I'm going to be doing it faster. How do I find the right person? Like if you're in this situation, you are very familiar with all of those things. Right. And, and whenever someone was like, this is like an incredibly baby boss mindset, it was like immediate defense.

[00:28:23] Right. And. But like you have to start owning that because as you go through all of the, all of the trials and tribulations of entrepreneurship, you're going to be wrong any time and time and time again. And you have to learn to sit with that wrongness and turn it into a right, like take the time to respond appropriately, no matter the situation.

[00:28:47] As opposed to piling on more and more bad reactions, because that's a good way of digging yourself into a

[00:28:54] Erica Courdae: really ugly hole. Well, and I think that perspective matters. And I don't think that it's perspective in a, in a sense of like, let's compare ourselves, but I think perspective sometimes can be very grounding to remind yourself of like, in the situation you just gave, I am this person that has my mindset and I'm having a hard time getting out of it, but you called me out on it and now I'm going to get defensive.

[00:29:22] And now here we are that if that feels like a mistake that you're having a hard time dealing with. Let's think about the fact, if you did something and it impacted someone's health, it impacted someone being able to pay their bills and possibly losing their vehicle, losing their home. If we are talking about, the safety of someone that we care for an elder or child, a family member, like if we are so worried about assets, something, and you had a feeling about it, you didn't agree.

[00:29:52] And that's the thing that we dig a hole about when people lose their lives over quote, unquote, mistakes. We need to shift our perspective. Like as business owners, we have to really decide like, what are we quantifying as a mistake? Yeah. In the sense of like, what's the thing that I'm going to have my feelings about.

[00:30:14] And what's the thing of like, shit, this is a mistake. This is a problem. I mean, like we, we need to like kind of broaden that out a little bit and reconsider our normal in the sense of what do we really think is the thing. That should shut us down. That should be so bad that we feel terrible about ourselves or about our business and whether or not, for the people that are, I just shouldn't even be in business because now you're so frustrated about it, where this person just shouldn't work for you, because you're so frustrated about it.

[00:30:46] Like, if, if you had a oops with your emails, I promise you it's not that bad. And I've seen people spiral out for stuff like I'm like, like, and, and as an example, Biddy tarot, who like Bridget has been here many times and I'm on their email list and I dunno, a month or so ago, like I was just like, why am I getting all these emails?

[00:31:10] And then an email just came out. It was like, Ooh, four emails in 10 minutes. My bad. That was, that was dumps jacked up. And it kind of was what it was that they acknowledged. Yeah. That wasn't okay. Sorry, here's something. And they kept going four emails later. They weren't like, yeah. We did that thing and we're so let it go, like be real about what's a thing.

[00:31:35] And what you are deciding is a thing, because you need something to latch on to when this moment

[00:31:41] Emily Thompson: I was reading a, I was reading an astrology book last night, so I was going to bed and, the author was telling a story about how a three legged cat got chased up a tree by a pack of dogs.

[00:31:57] Right? I mean, look just here, here it is, gets, it gets chased up the tree by a pack of dogs. And five minutes later, he sees the cat out on the yard or out in the yard. Lazing in a patch of sunshine. Like if you had just gone through a traumatizing experience in shade tree, by an angry pack of dogs, or something goes wrong in your business.

[00:32:21] Right. You get a really awful customer service, email, and employee comes to you. Something is broken and needs to be fixed. Someone calls you out on social media, right? Whatever it may be. Do you have the capacity to just go lay in a patch of sunshine five minutes later, right?

[00:32:40] No, but like, why not?

[00:32:43] Erica Courdae: Right.

[00:32:43] It's the awareness of it. Cause I think that is something that we need to do better with in life. And usually because we don't do well with it there, it, it bleeds over into our businesses because we hold on to it and there are times to where you need to vent. You need to get it out. But four days later it's like, I mean that email and it's like,

[00:33:05] It's all right. I promise it's okay. It's okay.

[00:33:08] Emily Thompson: Or we can let it go. Or the situation of this cat. I would hope that this cat maybe learn the lesson, learn took a couple minutes to respond, to learn the lesson and knows not to go back to where those dogs are next time. Right? Does some things to adjust the mindset or maybe its processes walks a different way next time.

[00:33:29] Erica Courdae: So it's that metaphor is getting weird. Well, no, it's true. And maybe, maybe, maybe that can't learn. You know what? I learned that I can take risks and I can still get out of them and enjoy the sunshine. So I got,

[00:33:49] I've lost the whole leg and I'm still here in me are friends today. And so sometimes it's also remembering that part of being in business is taking a risk. And so for those of us that have brands that there's an aspect of thought leadership. You are taking a risk by sharing how you think, how you feel, what your particular position is on things.

[00:34:14] And we know that because there's always, there are people out there waiting just to be contrary because they have nothing better to do. I saw somebody this morning that was going in on an astrologer about why, what they're giving in their free content is wrong. You have nothing better to do than to tell me that my free content.

[00:34:30] And so like, you're taking that risk, but you're doing it because that is what is suiting and serving you. And you have to remember that those kinds of things are going to be there. And also that mistakes. Now there are mistakes that are not, Like, there's no question in them. So where like, obviously if it's something to where it's offensive to somebody identity, like things of that nature, that's, that's not a questionable mistake, but there are going to be people that literally think it's a mistake simply because you gave your thought process.

[00:35:04] So we have to really say like, was this a mistake? Or you just had an opinion about it, and I'm just not listening to your opinion because we also need to have a little bit more of a closed door to things that. This ain't my thing. So I'm not going to pick this up. This is clearly not mine. This is clearly about you.

[00:35:24] Goodbye.

[00:35:25] Emily Thompson: Right? And this is where building some good processes into your business is important. And the, or just like, defining these things in terms of, a business handbook or something like these are the kinds of opinions that I don't give a shit about. Right. One of mine is if you've never bought for me, I probably am not going to listen to you.

[00:35:43] Right. Just in general, like if you have some opinions about things, but we've never like had a real energy exchange, you're just an outsider looking in. Like, I don't really care.

[00:35:55] Erica Courdae: No, no. I got sent, got too many other things to do in my life. No, indeed.

[00:36:00] Emily Thompson: So like, you could define these things for yourself and for your business so that, when does what deserves reaction or response, thoughtful risks, nothing deserves reaction.

[00:36:15] How do you feel about that state? Are there times when you should react or should it always be a thoughtful response?

[00:36:24] Erica Courdae: I think that you can always react. The challenge is whether or not that reaction needs to be shared with others. That's like, there are times that I'm going to feel how I feel, but does that need to be, and who does it need to be shared with if I come in and I'm like, Emily, okay.

[00:36:47] Does that mean that I need to go and then do that same thing for my email blast this week? Does that mean that I need to go into my community? Because what then happens with that? Is that going to get me the outcome that I want? That's where I think the challenge is. You can feel all your feelings. I am not telling you that you cannot react.

[00:37:08] However, I think that you need to think about what you're doing and whether or not that the appropriate channel.

[00:37:15] Emily Thompson: Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. I love that because you're like, yes. Have your reactions. Learn to do this privately.

[00:37:27] Erica Courdae: Because then you'll hear yourself say it. And it's like, well, that was a little different than what I thought was going to come out.

[00:37:33] And you're because a part of that is your processing. Especially as someone who is a verbal processor, there are times that I need to go through that in order to, to, to actually hear it. And if I'm able to share it, and if it's necessary in that moment to share it in relationship with somebody, I'm also getting some contexts of like, I don't know if I agree or I agree, 100% you're going to easy or you're going too hard, whatever that might be.

[00:38:05] And I think that that sometimes can be helpful because when we stay in the echo chamber of our own heads, and we assume that our thought is law at all times, bullshit.

[00:38:20] Now, again, we talk about safety wellbeing. It physically, emotionally, there are things that it's like, there is, there is no question here. There is no, no, this is not negotiable. But most things there is some gray area and the gray area is more about, there's a lesson, there's something to learn.

[00:38:42] There's an awareness here. There is some thing that is happening here that is for you. And that's the piece that I feel like that immediate jump to react. We Rob ourselves of that. And then we re we robbed the receiving parties on the other end that can also learn from it because how many times have you learned something?

[00:39:02] And it was like, yeah, I can pass this on. You don't have to go through this. Cause I have, and now I'm able to share that.

[00:39:10] Emily Thompson: Yeah, I, oh, there's also this sort of other side. Oftentimes whenever I'm having sort of interactions with people and I'm even thinking like sometimes like customer service things or even in my life, sometimes I see things as like, they're learning a lesson right now and I can like learn the lesson through their lens.

[00:39:29] But if I were just sitting here being as reactionary as possible, not having any sort of self-awareness, I would think because I have an ego that this is all about me when there's actually an opportunity to realize that this is a lesson for this person. And you were just an impetus for it. Like that's also an opportunity, but you could also just take that and go make an ass out of your.

[00:39:50] Right. If you even take those scenarios the wrong way. So I level we're saying here around, around giving, Paul's having private reactions that allow you to evolve in whatever way you need to evolve. Maybe this, karmic cycle can end that some point, if this is something that keeps coming up for you, I think we can all sort of see those little, those little threads in our own experiences.

[00:40:15] And then even going back to this idea of building some of these processes into your business and how it is that you can define what you're reacting to or responding to and what does not deserve your response, because that is also very much so an option think about. No customer service processes, email templates, those sorts of things, having your team on board for it.

[00:40:38] And otherwise I think there's this important thing that I wanted to incredibly highlight here. And that is you as the entrepreneur of like taking space, gaining self-awareness looking at every conflict. Cause I feel like that's even sort of what we're talking about here is like conflict resolution dealing with conflict, right?

[00:40:58] Yes, yes. Of, of taking the opportunities to really learn from those things and responding to them in a way that. And that is through the lens of your values to whatever outcome comes from it, because I don't want to be like, for the highest good. I mean, that's gorgeous. And I love that, but like really, like, I feel like if you are always responding to things through the lens of your values, which is something we talk about a lot here at Being Boss.

[00:41:28] I know you talk about this a whole lot as well. We have a quiz for it Being Boss dot clubs slash values. If anyone wants to go check out some content around it. But whenever you do that, whenever it's so a part of how it is that you do business, that you're even doing it through the lens of your values, you're always going to be okay with the outcome no matter where the outcome falls on the spectrum of good or bad.

[00:41:53] Erica Courdae: And that's why values is the piece that I feel like so many people miss, when I was recording episodes for pause on the play about everything that was happening with Spotify. The first thing that I acknowledged was that, okay, I don't want to start by having this publicly. I actually want to start by coming in and having this conversation in my community because they are the first step.

[00:42:20] And these are people that have chosen to put their money behind coming in and supporting us, supporting each other, sharing with each other and let us have this conversation first. And from there, what we were discussing, as well as what I had already outlined for me, I felt like was important to bring over to the podcast that then gave me that space to feel like, okay, I want to talk about this and I'm going to purposefully put this conversation a month or two out because I am further bringing attention to the fact that this is not urgent.

[00:42:57] I don't need to talk about this while the thing is a conversation. I don't need to talk about this now because you want to talk about this. Now you want to talk about that. Now you come into the community and you have that space to be able to do that with us. But when I am choosing what I want to bring for this conversation through the podcast, then I want to make sure that through my values, I am actually bringing what is pertinent and what's necessary, but also acknowledging that like, Hey, my value, say we don't rush.

[00:43:26] I did that last year, which was 2021 with the insurgency in the Capitol. I rushed, I put out an episode because I wanted to talk about it immediately. I rushed myself. I rushed our podcast production team and I was like, I will not do that. And I'm not CNN, I'm not MSNBC. So I'm not here to give you the breaking news.

[00:43:45] I'm not doing those things. And so that is a demonstration of my values in all of the things that I do and all of the ways that I am working with people and the beauty of values is the more you utilize them [00:44:00] and end the actual actions that you're taking. Not just in theory, the more automatic it becomes to take those actions, because I didn't think in my head, oh, I need to put this out now.

[00:44:13] Honestly, when my muse woke me up out of my sleep at like 12 something that night to give me that these downloads, my immediate thought was like, okay, can I do this tomorrow? And I was like, ah, Nope. Like I couldn't have got a split second later. It was like, no, we are not going to do that. Get it down, record it, release it when it feels good.

[00:44:33] And so that automatic understanding of what is going to go through the filters of my values was there for me because I ha I was showing my values that they were important to me. It's like being in a relationship with someone when they know that they're important to you, they're going to be there when you need them and vice versa.

[00:44:56] And I feel like we're treating our values and in life that then reflect in our businesses as these outside things. And they are entities that we're in a relationship with. And too many people are not in an intimate enough relationship with their values.

[00:45:16] Emily Thompson: Indeed, indeed. But they are through the, they are the lens through which all of these things need to go.

[00:45:23] Because, you talking about like, With the urgency of content creation, for example, you're missing out on the rush of search volume and all the SEO gold that comes from that. Right. And so like, there can be a bit of FOMO, very legit. Like I need to do this fast so I can really capitalize on it, whatever that may be.

[00:45:43] But because you're doing it through the lens of your values, this idea of not rushing it, you feel good about it and screw SEO. That's not your values.

[00:45:54] Erica Courdae: No, no. And it's given me the opportunity to behavior model. What I want my people to understand, which is that the goal is not to be the first to have this conversation.

[00:46:06] The goal is to be in this conversation thoughtfully and intentionally, and that is the purpose. And that has absolutely nothing to do with when we have the conversation. People have podcasts where they talk about historical things that happened years ago. I'm pretty sure that a couple of months and the big scheme of things is not going to make it.

[00:46:30] It's fine. If it's really that irrelevant, you probably shouldn't be talking about it.

[00:46:37] Emily Thompson: Because let's get real. Are you still struggling with managing the money side of your business these days with tools and tips and me driving a right into your ear holes, there's really not much excuse for you to not have this under wraps. So let's go back to the tools. Our friends at FreshBooks have made this episode as easy for you as it can be FreshBooks has everything you need to manage your books.

[00:47:00] Invoices, expenses, time tracking, it'll even send out automatic reminders for invoices and fix you up with late fees when a client doesn't pay on time, which means it's also here to ease the pain of having those awkward conversations when necessary. What more can you want if you're determined to do your own money management or just are not ready to hand it off yet, stop messing around and go check out FreshBooks.

[00:47:23] Try FreshBooks free for 30 days, no credit card required by going to freshbooks.com/beingboss to get started today.

[00:47:34] Okay. I have like a real world, like real world conflict situation, or like scenario that I want to run by you though. So let's say though,

[00:47:47] how do I, how do I want to like, pose this so that I'm not just like slamming some folks, let's say something happened

[00:47:56] Erica Courdae: and needed to be slam, slam. I like it's all right. When we're talking about this and maybe that's later, but like gently pushed you down just a little bit in that moment. Yeah.

[00:48:06] Emily Thompson: I'm not trying to highlight any particular situation in, at all, like more of this scenario of, let's say someone gets canceled on the internet on Instagram, and also like, let's just also put a circle around this part of the conversation and talk about how completely kind of ridiculous it is.

[00:48:23] So let's say in this little box of your phone and this like one sort of thread of internet, someone gets cancer. Right. And because this person gets for something awful legit, like let's say legit, no one questions that bad idea, but they have brand partnerships. Right. And everyone who's like canceling the individual starts going to the brand partnerships to see you.

[00:48:52] Like, are you going to drop them? What are you going to, like, why are you partnering with this person? Do you not realize that they're awful? Like, y'all, y'all seen this. We all gone down, gone down those holes with a cup of tea in our hand, you know? Right. When it comes to those brands and people pressuring them to respond quickly, like, why haven't you said anything yet?

[00:49:15] Do you not care? Why are you silent? Those sorts of things. How do you recommend a brand reacts or responds in those situations? When there is outward pressure to respond as quickly as quickly as possible.

[00:49:31] Erica Courdae: First, I have to go to the cancel culture thing first, please cancel culture is often toted as this terrible thing. And I don't like the idea of canceling a person for one action. Repetitive terrible actions, well, that's another conversation. However, there is also the flip side of that, where people love to say, I want to make sure that I'm not going to get canceled and I love to retort.

[00:50:02] Is it that you don't want to be canceled or is it that you don't want to be held accountable? Because those are two very different things.

[00:50:11] Show up and you do something that is harmful, that is offensive, and you are held accountable. That is not cancel culture. And I need to make sure that that's understood because so often that comes up and I'm like, That's not what that is making you aware of the impact of something that you did and then giving you the opportunity to figure out what's next.

[00:50:39] As far as I'm concerned, like, yes, it don't feel good. Probably feels terrible. But the fact is, is that you were told and given the opportunity to do something different. Okay. You were not shot in the street, dragged off to jail, hung in the square. Like you are now given an opportunity to figure out what's next.

[00:51:01] And so before we automatically assume that we've been, judge tried and executed, let's be real and acknowledged somebody calling you out and giving you an opportunity to respond is more than what a whole lot of people. Have received before they lost their lives or their freedom. So please don't manufacturer oppression with that.

[00:51:24] I digressed that,

[00:51:29] but I think if a brand has a partnership with someone, someone says or does something that's offensive, it's out of line it's, it's not okay. The, and this is where I think I would hope that you had done the work on the front end to have made it clear what isn't is not acceptable in being a brand partner of theirs.

[00:51:52] I would hope that you had already done the work to be clear of what happens next. If something happens now, there's going to be, things happens sometimes. And you're like, ah, we don't have a manual for this one. However, you have some kind of parameters and you again, know what your values are. And I hope that you have put in there.

[00:52:12] What is the next step? Is there a conversation? Is there some type of, mediation of some sort that does give an opportunity for some restorative actions to take place, and being able to figure out before you say anything publicly, what happens internally and what happens with this person?

[00:52:33] Because I don't think that anything should be done front facing, other than acknowledging, maybe that this has happened, we are aware of it and we're addressing it. Like radio silence obviously is never helpful. Cause that can make it feel like, oh, you're okay with this. But acknowledging that it's being addressed.

[00:52:53] Rear facing internally and that you, you will go forth and, and kind of let people know what does happen next. I think that that's a little more responsible because it does give you that opportunity to figure out what, what happened here, Hey, you know that this is a violation and what are we going to do going forward?

[00:53:15] Because I think that if every time somebody does one thing, if that automatically means, oh, you're gone, you're canceled. We won't talk to you. We won't do anything with you that really just highlights the fact that we say that we're a culture. Like as a whole, not just as business owners, but we all say that we're for redemption.

[00:53:37] And it's like, but are we though, like, let's really question if we offer redemption and if we are, then we figure out what that means now. Again, if things are just like re if you're repeatedly out here being anti-Semitic, get off the internet and go figure that out and quiet somewhere. Like, go back, do some learning, pay some people to help you figure yourself out.[00:54:00]

[00:54:00] But if you do one thing, then I, in my head I'm like, okay, what can you learn? Where can you figure out, I want to move forward. I want to do things differently. And it might not be comfortable. And I think what's the problem is people don't, they would almost rather deal with the vitriol of being canceled than the discomfort of having to figure out what restorative actions are figuring out, what do I need to learn?

[00:54:27] What do I need to do.

[00:54:28] Emily Thompson: To themselves or what they do?

[00:54:32] Erica Courdae: But I felt like the whole, like, let's just cut all ties. That's not an opportunity for growth. Now, again, this is not a catch all. There are some places where it's like, Ooh, Cut ties and run, but there is more than more often than we are acknowledging an opportunity to figure out I didn't make the best choice.

[00:54:57] I am going to do my own learning. I am going to support those that, that do know and belong to whatever community or group that I, it was offensive to learn how to do better once I've done my own learning. And from there, I hope that me going through this will be an example of not running when responsibilities come up and hold you accountable and how you can figure out what's next.

[00:55:23] I think that's so much more important than this burning at the stake type of like let's stop at stop manufacturing oppression, please. It's not fun to have oppression. Please stop looking for it.

[00:55:36] Emily Thompson: Looking for it and making it for yourself and others, hundred percent. Perfect. I love this. I feel like we've given everyone.

[00:55:45] I mean, it's sort of pretty full spectrum here. I think it's easier to talk about the big dramatic moments when like, big conflict arises and you have to like sort of shell the things down and really look at all. Like that's an easy, [00:56:00]

[00:56:00] Erica Courdae: somewhat easy thing. It's easy for somebody like you that already is, is steps ahead enough to be like, okay, this is a thing.

[00:56:09] Stop, stop, and understanding what that is versus, oh my God, somebody didn't some didn't come in the mail, they didn't get it. They didn't get it. What do we do? What do we do? And it's like, yo, this ain't the thing to your shadows. This is not like there are things to lose shit over. This is not the thing.

[00:56:28] And so I think. More people kind of understand that, but I think there can be some better understanding of what that is and how that relates to them, where they may be need to disengage some of their worth from, from the, the, the weight of that. But I think the little things there's also that, and I'm going to say little things with air quotes here, the smaller things, there is a place of really understanding what this is.

[00:57:01] What's the next step where there's a space for redemption, where there is a space for restoration, where there's a space for learning and figuring out, okay, what, what do we want to get from this? So that we're hopefully not here again. Right? It's kind of a goal.

[00:57:20] Emily Thompson: Build a better business. Right. I mean, that's or

[00:57:24] Erica Courdae: thought process and fortitude to not allow the things that aren't as big as we have made them to be in our heads to be our undoing.

[00:57:37] Emily Thompson: Yep. And even going back to something you were saying earlier through conversation, having your people, I mean, how many times have we even gotten on Marco polo together? But like, let me tell you this shit, talk me out of it. Or like you taught me off this clear or whatever it may be, to talk things out and get different perspectives and have people ask you questions.

[00:57:58] I have many people in my life that I've been able to do this with for years. And similar to what you were talking about earlier, most of the things that you guys hear me say or read that I've written, this is that I'm not having the thought while in right. Right. Or while I'm saying it, these are things that I've been massaging and having conversations about for months, sometimes years before anyone outside ever experiences my opinion or take on them.

[00:58:26] And I think the more that we can build that it doesn't mean that, you're missing out or you're like, missing the opportunities. It's just that you're being responsible with the content that you're creating and the business that you're building. You're taking responsibility for those things as an entrepreneur.

[00:58:45] And otherwise there's just a lot of mindset stuff that goes with showing up and being okay with making mistakes. And then knowing that when you make mistakes, the next step is to solve them.[00:59:00]

[00:59:00] Erica Courdae: And the first thing that I would like more people to do when that comes up is to STFU. It is free and abundant. Oh, just for a second for a hot second.

[00:59:11] Emily Thompson: For anyone who doesn't know what that stands for.

[00:59:15] Erica Courdae: Shut the fuck up period. Yep.

[00:59:23] Right. Like, give it a, give it a minute before we like, like, we don't have to do that. Right.

[00:59:31] Emily Thompson: Okay. Just take a pause, go take a breather, take a walk, take a nap, do all kinds of things. Otherwise. You're right. Yeah. STFU. Perfect. Erica, Thank you so much for coming and having this conversation with me. I'm so glad to dig into this, and I hope that everyone listening has, it has at least some new tool to add to their tool belt, to make it easier for you to show up in the ways that you want to show up for you to curate and create the content or things that you're here to create the experience you're here to make for your clients, your customers, and otherwise deal with things that come up because as you show up.

[01:00:10] Yeah, right. We're all here to learn lessons and evolve and get better. And I think only when we sort of accept that as part of our path, are we, less afraid to show up and do the things and otherwise legit, just try to be a good person. Jesus Christ. On a

[01:00:27] Erica Courdae: cracker.

[01:00:34] Emily Thompson: Here we go. We're going to people find more about you around the interwebs.

[01:00:39] Erica Courdae: I would love for you to come on over to pause on the play.com. So you can learn more about what we do. You can learn more about the community and you can learn more about the podcast, which I'm having conversations like this solo as well as with my cohost India and amazing guests.

[01:00:56] Because the conversations that we're having really prompt you to figure out how to reconsider your normal, how it is that you can be a better imperfect ally. And what's next for you? It's okay. We'll figure it out together. So pauseandtoplay.com. You can find out everything there and same on Instagram at @pauseandplay.

[01:01:18] Emily Thompson: Awesome.

[01:01:18] And Erica, what's making you feel most boss these days?

[01:01:22] Erica Courdae: My rings.

[01:01:27] It is honestly.

[01:01:29] Emily Thompson: And that was the flashing around while you were talking.

[01:01:33] Erica Courdae: I was that, and I know that that probably feels like really that's the thing. And sometimes it is just, it is the small things that remind you of like that inside piece. It gives you a reflection of it on the outside and in this moment where it's not quite warm outside, it's actually really dark and cloudy today.

[01:01:52] It can not figure out if it wants to be cold or warm. This is something that reminds me like, you know what, I'm going to be able to kind of come out of my own hibernation scene. And it's a reminder that I don't have to have the sun out there to have my son inside. So it's been kind of fun. Of course, I'm exploring something I haven't worn rings in so long.

[01:02:14] So it's fun. I like it. Fingers feel purpose.

[01:02:19] Emily Thompson: Well, they look purposeful again. I keep seeing it flashing around. I'm like, yeah, girl, you worked at work. Everyone knows I'm Erica and our friend Tasha got literally first pick of a whole of rings that David and I brought home from new Orleans from a lapidary right in the middle of the French quarter.

[01:02:39] A couple of weeks ago. And Eric was just flashing around, just flashing around. And check some of those out at almanacsupplyco.com. If you want a flashers around too.

[01:02:50] Erica Courdae: Please do. And I think it's lovely to have these little reminders for ourself, whether they're things that we wear, things that we smell, things that we see, things that we write, things that you hear that remind us of our inherent power and so things that can key us back to that.

[01:03:07] I think there's always a purpose for it.

[01:03:10] Emily Thompson: Lovely, Erica, thank you so much. It's good to chat with you.

[01:03:18] All right boss, because you're here. I know you want to be a better creative at business owner, which means I've got something for you each week. The team at Being Boss is scouring the news, the best entrepreneurial publications and updates and releases of the apps and tools that run our businesses and is curating it all into a weekly email that delivers the must know tips and tactics in the realms of mindset, money and productivity.

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