Alignment with Your Business with Melyssa Griffin

Emily Thompson 0:00
The beanbags book is officially available for pre order, and you can buy it wherever books are sold. Let us know that you bought it and we'll send you some goodies. Just go to being boss club slash book for more details.

Kathleen Shannon 0:16
Hello, and welcome to being boss,

Emily Thompson 0:19
a podcast for creative entrepreneurs. I'm Emily Thompson.

Melyssa Griffin 0:23
And I'm Kathleen Shannon. I'm Melissa Griffin and I am being boss.

Emily Thompson 0:31
Today we're talking about aligning your purpose with your business with Melissa Griffin. As always, you can find all the tools books and links we reference on the show notes at WWW dot being boss dot club.

Kathleen Shannon 0:44
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Emily Thompson 1:27
With a community of over 200,000 business owners and self development fanatics, former school teacher turned entrepreneur Melissa Griffin is a leading voice in the online business space. Entrepreneur Magazine calls her a Pinterest superstar and Huffington Post named her a top blogger for non techie creatives. Within four years, Melissa has grown her website into a multi million dollar company, and now helps entrepreneurs start and grow their own businesses to create a life of freedom. Melissa also hosts the top rated pursuit with purpose podcast, which covers topics like meditation, relationships, and mindset in order to help her community reach their full potential in all areas of their lives.

Kathleen Shannon 2:15
Melissa, thank you so much for joining us today on being boss, we are so excited to get to chat with you.

Melyssa Griffin 2:22
Oh, I am so excited to chat with both of you, too. Thank you guys for having me. Okay, so

Kathleen Shannon 2:26
I have been catching up a little bit on your brilliance and all the things that you have to teach. I was just telling you before we started recording that I listened to you as a guest on someone else's podcast, and it like really lit a fire under my ass about Facebook ads. And I feel like you were such a generous wealth of knowledge. And so I'm excited to really dig into some of the things that you have to share. But I want to get started because I don't know a lot about your background. So how did your entrepreneurial journey begin? Yeah, so

Melyssa Griffin 2:57
very much by accident. I was an English teacher in Japan at the time. And as much as I love Japan, and I loved teaching, I started to get in this rut. And I felt like my job was not fulfilling me anymore. I wasn't excited about what I was doing. And I also craved more of a community. So in Japan, there's kind of like a certain point that you can get to where you reach that point as somebody who's an outsider. And then you can't really go farther past that. If you want deeper connections, at least that was my experience. So I thought, I'll create a blog online. And I'll create this online community of creative people who want to just get together and talk and be friends. So it was kind of this like after work experiment of just wanting to have a community and do something that was fun and creative after my day job. So I started this blog and had no idea this online blogging world existed until shortly after I created the blog. And then I discovered like this whole world, this Universe Online of people who had online businesses and blogs, and I got really obsessed with creating a blog and wanting to create an online business. So eventually, I started selling ads on my site. And then I had a graphic design studio for a couple of years on I sold graphic design and web design services to my blog audience. And that was really how it all started. I within a few months was and what year was this? When

Kathleen Shannon 4:21
did you start blog? This

Melyssa Griffin 4:22
was 2013. So actually, oh, just a couple days ago was my five year anniversary of my blog. Congrats. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, so that was really how it started. I was able to quit my job as a teacher within a few months after that and then went from there.

Emily Thompson 4:41
That's amazing. And I love that it started with like a desire for community like you weren't one of those people who got online to start an online business you got online to find your PDF and I think there's such like, like purity in that the almost like this idea that like you're just here for connection and then it grows into you being able to offer More than just that connection.

Melyssa Griffin 5:02
Right, right. And someone asked me just a couple days ago, like what do I think was something that helped my business succeed. And I feel like that was a big part of it of like, I didn't go into it wanting to make tons of money or have success in a certain way. It was really like, I wanted a few people online that I could talk to you about creative stuff, and personal development. And if I had that, then I would be happy. And it was really just following that passion and excitement that led me to all this other stuff.

Kathleen Shannon 5:30
So whenever you were sharing your journey, I asked you what your it was, because it sounds a lot like probably even how Emily and I started with blogging and like maybe dabbling and ad space. And for us, or at least for me, it was in 2008. Emily, when did you start blogging?

Emily Thompson 5:47
Right? I can't,

Kathleen Shannon 5:48
I think like I mean, that was like, my professional blog was 2008. I had my journal or my right, we're not going that far back base, your live journal? Is that what you said? journal? Yes, I was like my journal. Like,

Emily Thompson 6:02
I had a live journal to write. I think I started in maybe, oh, 707 or Oh, eight.

Kathleen Shannon 6:11
Okay, so did you feel kind of late? I'm not saying that you relate to the blogging game, Melissa. But did what was your perception? Like? I can't even remember 2013? Like was that at the height of blogging and sponsored content? Or like advertising in the sidebar? kind of thing? Like, where? What was the landscape of blogging? Did you feel late to the game? Or did you feel like you hit it right at the right time,

Melyssa Griffin 6:34
I didn't feel late. And it was definitely at the height of seeing tons of sidebar ads, having like sponsored posts, what was talking about other bloggers, those types of things sponsor spotlights. I didn't feel late, but I did see all of these bloggers who had a few 1000 people in their communities. And I thought, like, I'm never gonna have that many people in my community. That's a lot. And I thought that these were just these almost impossible to reach celebrities in the blogging world. So it wasn't that I felt late, but it felt almost like I would never do that. It was more of like, just keep your small community and and go with that. And these are the people that you can look up to as role models.

Kathleen Shannon 7:13
I remember whenever I hit 100 people in my blogspot sidebar, I was like, I have a rabbi. But now you have over 200,000 people in your community. So how do you become a total rock star whenever you thought that that was like never in the cards for you?

Melyssa Griffin 7:31
Yeah, oh my gosh, so many things have contributed to that. I think after a while, I started to just kind of get rid of that mentality of these are the people that I need to idolize. And these are the only people that will like these are the people who will always be better than me. And I would start to do little things where I'd see success, like I get a graphic design client and send them an invoice that was way more expensive than I thought I was worth, but knew that really, my quality was worth that much. Or like I'd put out a blog post and get more clump comments that I thought I've ever gotten on a blog post before. So it was like these little measurements of realizing that I could do bigger things and reach more people and affect more people. So it wasn't like this overnight of just I've arrived or this is working, but just those little moments of realizing that things are working out and I can push the limits farther and farther. I love

Emily Thompson 8:25
that. I want to talk about this pushing the limits further and further. At what point did you I, for me, I equate this to like setting goals where like you go into it thinking all just like, you know, see what happens. But at what point did you flip that into like actually going for it and setting goals.

Melyssa Griffin 8:43
I started setting goals after about my second year in business where I felt like I had more of a clear picture of what I could actually do with my business and what I thought I could reach. And I still set a goal that was like half of what we ended up achieving in that year because I think I was like scared and not confident enough in what I was able to do. But I also struggled a lot in that year. So this is my third year in business we more than doubled. I think it was like four or five axed our revenue from the previous year. And that was probably my year of most struggle. It was great financially, we had big audience growth. But for me personally, it was like I started getting really sucked into this idea of goal setting and of wanting to just surpass my goals and kind of like competing and comparing myself to everybody else out there that I got this warped perspective of my business and of myself and realize that so much of my self worth was tied into my net worth or how much my business was growing. So it was like this mindset of setting goals. But at the same time, this mindset of realizing that I needed to get back in touch with why I started this this whole business in the first place which was about connection and creativity and just having fun rather than always pushing myself to do something that maybe wasn't in alignment anymore with why I started this or what actually brings me joy.

Kathleen Shannon 10:08
Oh, I want to unpack this a little bit. So was that in 2016? Yes. So it's interesting that you came full circle from starting a blog and just saying, hey, why can't I be as big as these people who I'm looking up to, you know, what's stopping me there and this shift in mindset, then you achieve the success, you become the rock star, and start comparing yourself again. And I have definitely found myself in this same cycle, even within the context of being boss, where you really do start to get sucked into tying yourself worth to your net worth. And it can be easy to do or to be like, you know, I remember whenever it was, like, I just wanted those 100 followers. And now it's like, I just want a million dollar launch. Like what? And you know, why do we Why do we do that? So how did you overcome that? Like, if that had been in 2016? Like, what was 2017? like for you? And whenever you let go of that idea, did it impact your net worth at all to kind of separate yourself a little bit.

Melyssa Griffin 11:12
So the moment where I realized that I wasn't living as myself like I was becoming somebody else was I was at a conference, and there was a spoken word poet who is performing. And he started talking about kind of success in general, and how we become somebody else, when we pursue this vision of success that maybe isn't in alignment with our purpose. And I was just sitting there with like, my mouth open and my eyes really big and just thinking, Oh, my God, he's talking about me. And I started just bawling there in this big auditorium. And after he performed, I ran, it was a lunch break. So I ran to the CVS, I bought a little journal and a pen. And I went to a park by myself and just started journaling, everything that was coming up for me in that moment. And the biggest things that I came to were that I was becoming somebody different, and I wasn't living in my purpose anymore. And what my purpose really was, was helping people and connecting with people and making an impact rather than focusing so much on income. So I went back to my team after the conference, this was the end of 2016. And I told them that I wanted to do a big fundraiser. And I wanted to really start living more in this element of purpose and vision and helping people rather than focusing so much on numbers and conversion rates, and how much our email list has grown and all of those different things. So in February of 2017, this is about a year ago, now, we held a fundraiser where it was basically like a launch, we did a webinar, we had an email sequence. And we were doing like a Kickstarter campaign for all of my different courses where if you donate a certain amount of money, you could get this course or if you donated this much money, you could get this course or this service, or all these different things that we had. And our goal was to raise $70,000 during this two week period, and we ended up raising 120,000. And we donated all that money to Pencils of Promise which build schools does teacher training, sanitation trainings in countries like Ghana and Guatemala. And actually, we just got noticed that our first school is finished being built, the students are starting to use it super cool. And that moment of doing that fundraiser and realizing like we had over 700, people donate, and people would email us and say I donated already, but I'm donating again, because I'm so excited about this. And just having that experience of giving back with my business and using my community as a force for good rather than a force for just padding. our bottom line was really invigorating for me and was kind of the starting point of shifting my business to being more about giving and also about personal development in holistic growth. Because I felt like for years, I've been teaching people how to grow a business and then forgetting that maybe the rest of their life is in shambles. So helping them with other trainings and a new podcast on how to like change their mindset and help them live a better life in general. So since then, it's been about a year, it's been just a total whirlwind of really realigning and reshaping what my business is all about. And you asked how it's affected that bottom line and revenue and we actually doubled our revenue from 2016 to 2017. Even with living more in alignment and purpose, what with what we're all about. And I think that that shift definitely contributed to that growth too.

Emily Thompson 14:37
I love this so much. And the thing that really comes up for me is this idea of momentum of like, getting started with a thing and then just letting it roll and like watching it snowball into an on one hand something that you're in control of, but on the other hand, something that you can't even control that is going to grow into whatever it needs to on its own. I think that's that you've built the kind of moment And then that allows you to have that sort of reach and impact. Because you started, you did it, you didn't stop. And you pushed it along. Yeah.

Kathleen Shannon 15:10
Did you ever have any sort of lack mentality that you had to overcome whenever it came to raising all of that money and pulling your resources from growing your own business and sustaining your own team? Because I know that as you grow your business to that point, that you have more, you know, zeros at the end of your expenses as well that you have to keep up? Did you ever have any moment where you're like, Oh, my gosh, I'm raising all this money for these schools, which is incredible. But am I going to be able to keep my team? Am I going to be able to pay my own bills? Or you know, do all these things? And if you did ever have those lack moments? Could you describe what it was like and how you overcame them?

Emily Thompson 15:48
Yeah. Right. And before you go, IVF, eases growing pains, like these are the moments where like, it's so awesome, it looks amazing, but it hurts so bad. So growing pains, tell us about Yeah,

Melyssa Griffin 15:59
absolutely. So with the fundraiser of the 120,000, we raise 20,000 was a donation from my company. And just actually, to kind of backtrack a little bit, I started my business with a lot of money blocks, I grew up very poor at the free lunch at school, I didn't have very much money, I had a single mom. And I think that whenever I started to make money in my business, I was like a little chipmunk. And I would hoard it and just think I can't spend this, I need to keep it, I need to keep the money in the business, because otherwise, I'll never have money again. And this is all just going to be, it'll all just vanish, it'll all go away. So when I started to make more money and had more expenses needed to hire people, and eventually during this fundraiser, I would feel triggered at different points in time, because it would trigger that sense of this five year old who was getting kicked out of motels and didn't really have anywhere to go sometimes into thinking that it's all gonna go away and having that lack mentality. So when we did that fundraiser, it was my personal goal to donate $20,000. And I remember just being in front of my computer, like about to hit send on this payment, and like shaking and being so scared, because I thought all this is going to go away if I donate this money, and then I remember doing it, and just having this almost like spiritual moment of realizing like, everything's fine. Yeah, I didn't even notice the impact in my bank account, it didn't mean that I wasn't eating for a few days, it was, it was like nothing. And that realization helped my money blocks in so many ways of realizing that the more I give, the more that I help people. And the more that I get back to in my own personal growth, and also in the growth of my business. So I've used that at certain other points in my business growth, or my growing pains to remember that these are all just investments in the impact that I'm looking to make in the world, and they're not going to put me back to that place. That's an old story that I have some times, but it's not my story anymore. So that was definitely Those are some growing pains with just financial stuff. And then also thinking about my team, I just got an email recently from someone on my team, from a future landlord, who is asking, does this person make this salary Can she afford this, this apartment and it was a beautiful apartment, the woman on my team sent me photos of it. And I remember looking at these photos and thinking like I'm helping to fund this person's house, this home that She's so excited to move into. And just feeling like this excitement and also this pressure to want to maintain this business so that my employees and my staff can live the lives that they want to also. So I think there's always a sense of growing pains of certain blocks or realizing what impact your business has beyond yourself and being willing to commit to maintaining and sustaining that for everybody else.

Kathleen Shannon 19:08
Okay, so you're kind of known, or at least from the episode where I listened to you being interviewed, like you're kind of known for being this Pinterest rock star, like I feel like that was a big turning point and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but like really teaching people things like how to use Pinterest to grow their business and, and I think that whenever you talk about really getting stressed out in 2016, and wanting to become really realigned in 2017 were you like throwing that stuff like the baby out with the bathwater? Or are you still able to really utilize these really practical skills and the things that you have taught people how to do to grow their business, even over you were starting to get burnt out yourself like are you still using and teaching these things?

Melyssa Griffin 19:55
Yeah, so I for a while I was definitely thinking about that. I was like I'm just going to shut it all down, start this new business about personal development, spirituality. And that's just going to be it. And then I started to realize that what I really wanted to create was freedom for people freedom from relationships that weren't serving them freedom from jobs that they didn't feel appreciated in freedom from just anything that was limiting their potential. And I knew that being in a job that was not making them excited to go to work every day was definitely something holding them back. So I decided to end up keeping those trainings on how to start a business because they do feel aligned with that mission, still, but just layering on some new pieces to help them create more of that holistic growth in their life.

Kathleen Shannon 20:41
So what are you offering and selling now,

Melyssa Griffin 20:43
so I'm still selling my old courses, I shouldn't say old, but my courses that are more about how to start a business, how to create an audience and sell things online. We're keeping those more on the back end. So we have some sales funnels and some things that lead people to those courses without us doing live promotions of them. And then we're also working on some new stuff. So this year, I really wanting to do an in person event of maybe 100 or 200 people in Los Angeles, that'll be more focused on personal development, growth, maybe even some hints of spirituality. I'm like inching my way more and more to sharing that side of myself with my audience. And then I want to create a new Signature Course that combines the mindset piece of how do you work through all the stuff that's held you back in your life, with the freedom to create your own business piece of actually tactical steps on how to start a business and really putting those together into an online program?

Kathleen Shannon 21:44
Okay, so I think that one of the blocks I had early in my career whenever I was taking the braid method from being this one on one offering, where I was like, really digging in with people, and I even got Martha Beck coaching training, so I could even further serve, serve them in the best way possible, while taking them through branding process to turning it into an E course. I this was like, what, Emily, three or four years ago that I turned the braid method in five years ago, five years ago. I mean, it's been a hot minute. So it's been so long since I've thought about this. But at the time, I remember asking a question like, is there a way to meaningfully automate? And really, I think the question I was asking then that I didn't have the language for was, how can I take it? How can I scale this, like from a one on one offering into a one to many platform, and I was really nervous about the idea of it. Feeling like it might lack meaning or connection, and I find myself coming back up against this a little bit. And I can tell it's like an old block that I'm cycling back around to, especially as I'm getting into, like webinars and creating funnels and Facebook ads and starting to play that game. I'm like, okay, but is this still aligned? Does this still have purpose? Does it feel still feel connected, even though it's automated? So I, you know, as you talked about putting your old trainings, kind of on the back burner, or what it sounds like, is kind of on autopilot? Like, did you ever come up against any of those blocks as far as like, Can this still be meaningful, even if it's automated? Yes. Even if I'm playing an algorithm,

Melyssa Griffin 23:24
right? Yeah, I totally did. I remember the first time someone suggested doing an automated webinar, and I was like, Nope, not doing that. That sounds fake. And I'm not going to mislead people. And then I started thinking about it more. And I would get emails from people after I had done these live webinars. And they would say, like, Hey, is the webinar still available? Or did you already do it? Can I still watch it? And it's like, sorry, it expired, or sorry, we did it last week. And then they're just bummed out. And they're like, telling me more of their personal stories of why that webinar would have been helpful for them. And me just feeling like crap, what am I how am I going to do this? Am I just going to be the, like, Mother Teresa, who's like, take it all. Just watch it whenever you want. And or am I going to hoard this stuff for myself and not share it with anybody. And what I ultimately realized was, if this content is helping people, and if they need it, and it's going to serve them in some way, then it's my duty to make sure that as many people as possible get to watch this as I can make happen. And if I'm locking away all of my content into some vault somewhere where people can't watch it, then I'm doing a disservice to those people who really need this content right now. So I started doing my first automated webinar. And one thing that was really important to me was to never make it seem like it's live, to not have a chat that's running, making it seem like people are commenting to not ever say this is a live webinar, and do not have any any part of the webinar where it seemed like it was live. It all was built to make it feel like a pre recorded webinar, but still today Be able to help people and to put that content out there for people to watch and listen to. So that was the deciding factor for me of like, do I want to help people when they really need it? Or am I just going to keep this stuff locked in a vault where it's not helping or serving anybody?

Emily Thompson 25:14
That's huge. And, you know, with online business, one of the most amazing things about it is that we have access to all of these automations. But as creatives who pour our soul into all the work that we do, we feel like we need to be there touching every aspect of it for it to be real. So and this is I know, something Kathleen deals with is definitely something that I've dealt with. And so I hope that anyone listening to this, like gives yourself a bit of permission to use the tools that you have available to you to spread your work further than your own hands are able to do it on their own. Because I think it's important.

Melyssa Griffin 25:50
Yeah, I agree. I agree. And there's so many more people that we can impact if we're willing to let that be the case. Rather than forcing it to be like you have to be alive and you have to be there otherwise, it's not worth anything.

Kathleen Shannon 26:06
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Melyssa Griffin 27:18
Yeah, so I I feel like spirituality and you guys probably agree probably most people do is something that I've always aligned with but didn't know it. I didn't have words to describe. I didn't know that this community existed of spiritual people. But I started getting into it more like tactically and learning actual things probably in the past a year or two. Right now I'm in a huge crystal phase. I'm actually leaving in a few days if you guys have heard of the Tucson gem shells

Emily Thompson 27:47
dealt everyone me damn and I'm so jealous. I'm not there right now. But yes.

Melyssa Griffin 27:54
Yes, I am. I've been like refreshing the hashtag to watching people go to this thing. So I can go into that. And I really want to learn more about like, crystals in general, how people mined them, where they get them from what that process is like, so that's a big thing for me. I

Emily Thompson 28:11
guess if I can recommend a book I picked up one recently called I think it's called elemental energy, I feel and it did a really great job of of giving information a little bit more about how like some of that energy work works in the context of crystals and the woman who wrote it has a beauty brand that uses like crystals in her products is kind of fascinating. It's one of my favorite books that I found on crystals just throwing it.

Melyssa Griffin 28:42
I feel like I have that name. It sounds so familiar. I'm going to read it though now because I don't think I've started it. But that's definitely something that I've been getting into what else has been way what's your favorite crystal right now?

Kathleen Shannon 28:55
Like what's like resonating with you right

Melyssa Griffin 28:57
now? Yeah, so I have this one. That's actually right behind me. It's called Amma train so it's Amethyst since train. I've really been liking this one a lot. And I also really like Smoky Quartz. Those are a couple

Emily Thompson 29:10
I love Smoky Quartz is like having a moment just so we all

Kathleen Shannon 29:15
bought me a Smoky Quartz Yoni egg. Oh, Christmas. Oh, I don't think Emily wanted me to mention this on the podcast. I'm glad you did. I don't wear it like in a sexy way. Like it's weird to say like Emily bought me a Yoni.

Emily Thompson 29:31
We did an interview a couple of months ago with a woman who was talking about Yoni eggs. It became a funny joke between Kathleen and I, one of Kathleen's favorite stones is Smoky Quartz as well. So we were out of vacation in New Orleans in October, I was in our favorite like lapidary store, and they had a little basket of Yoni eggs and one of them was this beautiful Smoky Quartz and I was like ding ding ding. This is Kathleen's Christmas present. It's the weirdest present I've ever.

Kathleen Shannon 29:58
I love it. That's amazing. So Melissa, do you feel like you can like feel the crystal like can you feel energy from it? I have a hard I have a harder time like Emily is real into crystals and is starting to even sell them through Almanac supply co which is her new creative endeavor. But I have a harder time like, like, Am I really feeling this? I don't know. So yeah,

Melyssa Griffin 30:20
do you feel I it depends. So I do Reiki I get Reiki done to me every week. And when I do Reiki she'll put crystals on me and my body is just like buzzing the whole time. And I can totally feel that. But when I go home, and I just try and meditate with a crystal, it's more hit or miss. It's a lot harder for me to feel it. And one thing that my Reiki practitioner told me when I was actually talking about this same thing with her was she said like, just what if you feel anything, don't discount it or don't try and rationalize your way through it and just feel like oh, this is just like my body always feels like that or I'm just warm right now. And that's why I feel that way actually realize that what's happening is because of the crystal is in your hand or near you and putting more value into that. So I've been trying to do that more rate lately too. That's been helping. But yeah, I urine for the day where I could pick up a crystal and just be like, Oh, yeah, it's very vibrational. You know.

Kathleen Shannon 31:18
I love that you say that. That's something that I'm you know, Emily and I actually have discussed this recently that I'm trying not to be skeptical whenever it comes to things spiritual. And I'm not tip. I'm not a skeptic, by any means. Like I believe in some weird stuff. But really choosing to commit to that belief. And so whether that is how I'm feeling a crystal or how I'm picking up on a vibe or you know, whatever, like just choosing to believe in it. There's medicine in that too.

Melyssa Griffin 31:44
Even if it's quote unquote, fake, right. I'm so with you. Yeah.

Kathleen Shannon 31:49
Okay, so what else are you going to do?

Melyssa Griffin 31:51
Okay, so I've been doing the Reiki as well, I have some sound bowls. So I've been using those when I meditate.

Kathleen Shannon 31:59
What else do I do? And are you like using the sound bowl while like the whole time you meditate? Or do you start with it? Do you finish with it? Like what? Tell me about that? Yeah,

Melyssa Griffin 32:08
I usually use it in the beginning. And then I just kind of let the sound die out. As I'm meditating. I might kind of pick it up in the middle again, too, but usually more in the beginning. And then my Reiki practitioner also gave me this playlist that I think their calls you guys might know this better than me by narrow beats, something like that. But they play at different frequencies, that it's just instrumental music that helps to activate certain things like creativity or love. And I'll play those throughout the day too. And it's kind of the same feeling you get when you are near a sound bowl. So I love those too. And then I've done dabbled in things like seeing psychics and getting tarot readings, I, I'm learning more about Oracle decks and tarot cards. And in that little world, too. I feel like I'm still a beginner in a lot of ways. But I see myself like learning different things. I was at Trader Joe's and yesterday and the guy checked, like doing the cash register was wearing a Black Tourmaline necklace. And we talked about it and I was like, so proud of myself that I knew a Black Tourmaline was and what it does. So you see these little like points of learning, but I feel like there's still so much more of this world to tap into. It's really exciting.

Emily Thompson 33:24
Fine, I love that. I have to say that I don't always do this, like you a tarot deck on my desk. And a few minutes ago, I totally shuffled it and drew a card before we even talked about any of this stuff. Do you want to know what I got? Yeah. So I totally pulled the ace of wands. And right and for me, I felt like like the beginning of a spiritual journey. It felt a little Sparky. Like, I think this is going to be a really like, interesting conversation for all of us. Just throwing that out there, guys. I like that Ace of Wands. Is that what it's called? Yes, the ace of wands, okay. Gotta look that one up more later to who I

Kathleen Shannon 34:05
think like as a designer, I'm, I'm really trying to dive in. And I think that we're all students of this stuff all the time. And unless you're like, I don't know, the people who first wrote about this stuff. It's really hard to feel like an expert in spirituality, because it's so esoteric, and I don't know, personal and different and evolving. And everyone's bringing their own perception to it. So I don't know. I'm just so excited right now. I think that's something I really want to focus on in 2018 is going within a little bit more and really thinking about how I bring ritual or expression to my spirituality to like make it more concrete versus just, I don't know meditating everyone smile, or you're the equivalent of like praying when I need it. Right, right. Yeah. Like really bringing attention to it, I

Melyssa Griffin 34:57
guess is what I should say. Yeah. And consistency. That's something that's important for me right now, too.

Emily Thompson 35:03
So I do have to ask Melissa, in terms of like you making this big shift in your business and this like new found, like interest and sort of journey of spirituality? Did those have any sort of correlation? Like, did you start thinking differently about your business? At about the same time before? or after? Like, can you bring those times? together? Saturn?

Kathleen Shannon 35:27
Are you going through your Saturn return? You just turned 20?

Emily Thompson 35:31
I'd love to see your chart right now. But it's fine. They just turned 28. Is that Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 35:37
I'm I'm turning 29 in April. So I am 20. Right? Oh, yeah, you're going through your Saturn return? Wow, that's really interesting. Google that later, I will be taking notes right now. Um,

Melyssa Griffin 35:50
I did actually now that you say that I definitely did. I remember there was a store near my old house about a year ago that I went to called House of intuition. And I think I just driven past it so many times. And it was up on this hill. And I just decided one day, I feel like, I'm gonna say forget, but I feel like it was a day where I needed support. And I just felt a little bit lost. And I decided to go there and was just so overwhelmed by how beautiful the crystals were all the different books they had. And I started going there more regularly and making it more of my home and finding more stores and places like that. And it was definitely right around the time where this big shift in my business was starting. So it doesn't surprise me that I've been on the spiritual journey, and also have decided to switch so much of my business is purpose and mission at the same time.

Emily Thompson 36:38
I love that I also love that you say you and finding new stores like that whenever I go to a new city, and Kathleen could attest to this, I do two things. I look for the nearest liquor store. And shops, like those are the three things that I'm immediately yelping.

Kathleen Shannon 36:58
Probably Well, I really appreciate you being so transparent about, you know, feeling like you needed a shift in your business, because I think it's easy. I mean, if I had been at that conference where that spoken word poet was speaking, and I looked over and saw you crying, I would have had this moment of like, oh, like, even the people that you think have their shit together that are four to five times doubling their income like, it doesn't, it doesn't mean that everything's perfect. And it doesn't mean that you necessarily always feel like puppies and rain, right?

Emily Thompson 37:31
It doesn't mean that you don't still have further to grow. Like, I think that's I think there's this idea that like, and we feel like I talk we talk about this all the time. Like, there's this idea that success is a place that you get to and you're done. But that's not what it's like I was telling David, just earlier today, we're talking about, you know, Almanac and growing a new business and you know, what's happening with all the things and, and I made the comment, like, you know, we are in the long game here, like this is not we're going to reach success in like cash and, and be done. Like, I want to be busy and fulfilled and engaged in all of these things for the next leg, rest of my life. You know, so it's not the sort of thing where where you know, you have your million dollar launch, or whatever it is, and then you're done. That's just like, one more step. And then you're still gonna be like, crying out a poet, or whatever it may be again, and again. And again, it makes you wonder, like, what does it take to make Oprah cry these question, right, like, because, you know, there are still moments where like, even even people who have made that level of success, like they're still gonna be broken down a little bit more as they can, like, rise further,

Melyssa Griffin 38:47
every single time. Whenever I see the next level for me of my own personal growth, I get excited. I recently had an experience of seeing what that next level looks like of something that just kept triggering me over and over again, and I realized I needed to work through. And it was like, it was so exciting, because I realized that I'm, I'm at this point now where there is like this other we all have a next level, but I guess I just didn't see what mine was before. So I mean, how fun that we get to go through life and not have to ever stop growing. I think right? So boring. Wait, can

Kathleen Shannon 39:20
I ask you more about that you're being triggered by something negatively? And that showed you What's next?

Melyssa Griffin 39:26
Yeah. So I okay, so it's kind of like a random thing, but I wanted to buy a new car. And there's a car that I really want because I love driving and it's fun to drive.

Kathleen Shannon 39:35
Wait, what is it? What's the car that you really want?

Melyssa Griffin 39:38
Okay, so this is part of like my trigger right now, but I really want Sorry to hear on the

Kathleen Shannon 39:45
podcast, but I really want to know what car

Melyssa Griffin 39:47
Yeah, so and this is this is part of the story. So the car that I really want. I test drove it more just for fun, but it's a hybrid, cayenne Porsche and I Don't want it because of the status or because it's like an expensive car, I want it because I test drove it. And driving is one of those places where I just feel in my flow state. I feel like alive and happy listening to music and driving. And it's just really fun to drive. And it's a hybrid, which is something that I was seeking out. But I kept running up against these blocks of you can't buy that car. That's not what somebody who's humble would do. That's not somebody who came from a poor background would do. You should buy like the Toyota version of that car like I have a Honda CRV right now you should buy another one of those or something that is not flashy, and isn't this person that you're not trying to become. And that started to show me like, Oh, this is something I need to work on. Because accept this at the core of the issue. It's not about the car. It's about my own worthiness of who I am as a person. And thinking like, Am I worthy enough to have something that I think other people can only have not me. And so that sort of just trigger this next level that I deemed 2018 as the year of working on my own self worth, and really valuing that and allowing myself to have things that are things that I want even if I feel like they're things are things that I can't have, quote unquote. So yeah, I feel almost embarrassed to talk about it, because it is this like, luxury thing. And yeah, and I think it's just something that I'm still working on of valuing my own worth and letting that be okay.

Kathleen Shannon 41:35
I can't help but think about our friend Paul Jarvis just bought a Porsche. It might even be a kayak. But I think that he bought it, but they were willing to do an all vegan interior. Yeah, like they custom did an all vegan interior. And he had contacted a couple of other luxury car companies, and ask them if they could do vegan interiors. And they said no, and this car company was willing to work with them. Anyway, I love having people like Paul in my life, because he would never even think to question his worthiness whenever it comes to not only driving that car, but making them make it vegan for I love that. And I love having these role models, because I certainly come against these, you know, worth issues, probably in different areas other than cars, but then having people that I can look to and say, well, that's not even an issue for them, almost as role models to not even comparison trap stuff. But like, Okay, what would Paul do, he would get in that car and drive it and own it. And I still think of him as like a very humble person, and many, many ways. So I don't know, I wonder if there's anyone in your life that is like that for you. And I think that you're also like that for so many other people, which is why I love having this conversation because you inspired me to get my Facebook ad game together and to get my webinar game together and to be unapologetic about pre recording a webinar and not feel bad about not being there live. So I was just so fun.

Melyssa Griffin 43:08
Yeah. And I appreciate you sharing that. I didn't know that he had that car. And I followed him too. I think he has rats. I used to have rats, right? Yeah, the rat guy who has a Porsche I love that. And my my friend too. She's very spiritual too. And we were talking about this the subject and she was asking me about my home home is really important to me. I want to decorate it and make it feel like the sanctuary where I just feel more creative. And she asked me like, as you decorate your house more as you add more pieces that make you happy to see Do you feel more creative? Do you feel more productive? Do you feel more at peace when you come home? And I said yes to everything. It was like I love my house because I've made it so much of what I yearned to to live in, in the past and and she kind of used the same logic with my car and like do you get excited when you go to drive your Honda CRV? Is it somewhere that you feel in your highest flow state? Do you feel most creative? Do you feel excited and and I couldn't really say the same and she started to really just show me that. If I want to be at the highest service for the people that are in my life, the people in my community, then it's of it's for their own good that I make sure that I am living in a way that fulfills me and excites me and I have the things that really helped me to be at the top of my game in my own life and in my business and if it means having a nice car that makes me excited and fulfilled and creative, then that's just another like token that's going to help me to perform at my best for the people that I'm serving. That was definitely a shift for me to have realizing that I'm in holding myself back and holding back the people that I could be helping in my community to sheets. Yeah.

Kathleen Shannon 44:55
I love also I shared my car story and are being bought Toronto live from fresh books cloud accounting, like I had a lot of like embarrassment and shame because I come from a family that drives their cars like Ford, like not Pinto what is anyway, like the cheapest Ford, you can buy like a little two door hatchback. And until it dies, like for decades, and now my parents drive Honda fits like just very reasonable cars. And so whenever I was car shopping, I really wanted a BMW and I ended up buying a Mini Cooper, which is essentially a BMW and acuter, I think. But there is something to be said for cultivating confidence by behaving like a confident person. And for me, I just felt like I could behave more confidently. And I think the same thing applies to style, which is my word of the year, like whenever I feel like I'm in my style, I feel like I'm in my confidence. And that definitely translates to how I talk on the podcast, or how I approach other creatives that I want to be friends with. And it's just another example of we always talk about the work life blend, and how you really can't separate work and life. And I think that it gets really nuanced even in those areas as well. And even in areas of spirituality, which is why I was so excited to kind of dig into that topic with you, because I really see spirituality, play a huge role in everything from style and the car that we're driving to abundance and worth issues. And to you know, I don't know, pre recording a webinar.

Emily Thompson 46:37
Right. I agree with that. And I think that's one of the things that we've tapped into here at being boss. And one of the things that sort of started really early with Kathleen, because we were always having those really open conversations. But there's, there's this idea that as a creative entrepreneur, I have this idea that there as a creative entrepreneur, there isn't a separation of work and life, like you can separate them. And I think in some ways you should, but holistically, they're you like they all make up who you are. So whether it's you know, pursuing a spiritual interest or using like spiritual beliefs to help you, you know, grow a business or vice versa. I think that i think that that's all, that's all part of sort of creating this like, whole person that you know, at the end of the day is super fulfilled by the work that they do as well as the life that they're living. And they're able to do that day after day. And I think this it's that like, living as an example that sort of lifts the whole world up like person, by person by person. And I think all of it's worth pursuing. And it's not just about working. It's not just about living. It's about doing it all at once.

Kathleen Shannon 47:53
Okay, coming back to the car. Yeah. Did you buy it? I mean, I feel like you've been really transparent about even some of your income reports, which I was looking at, I would have just like thrown down like a here's, here's a

Melyssa Griffin 48:07
Yeah, so I am actually going to Lisa, I'm talking to an agent right now. And I, the reason I'm leasing good is because my bookkeeper said, it's a lot harder, you could write this off as a business expense, it's a lot harder to do if you just put down all the money for buying the car versus like a payment of a few $100 every month. So for that reason, I'm leasing it. But I'm waiting for the cars. They're at like an inspection point at a port right now. So when they get in, I will have my car and I'm just gonna rock it and let it be a thing.

Emily Thompson 48:39
Congratulations. Thank you. Alright, excuse me, while I pause this here and let you in on the exciting news. The being boss book is about to hit the shelves of a bookstore near you, Kathleen and I have taken years of conversations between ourselves and those we've had with experts and industry leaders here on the beam boss podcast, and have distilled them down into what we've found, makes you boss into a book that you can read, hold in your hands and share with a friend.

Kathleen Shannon 49:12
And we'd be lying if we didn't admit that we have a big dream with this book. We wanted to be a best seller. We want every creative in the world to cultivate the confidence it takes to take control of their work and make money doing what they love. So they can live life on their own terms. That's what our book is here to do. And we need your help to make it happen.

Emily Thompson 49:31
If you want to dive into the core of what it means to be boss and support us while you do it. It's time for you to preorder the book. And once you do that, let us know you bought it and we'll send you some goodies. Just go to Bing boss club slash book for links to purchase and for more information on how to claim your swag that's being boss clubs slash book. Now let's get back at it.

Kathleen Shannon 49:58
So I want to come back to This idea though, that coming up against resistance, and this trigger really opened you up to seeing what the next level could be. So I want to dig into this, like how this might translate for even some of our lists, yeah, or any other areas in your business where you've hit against resistance. So for example, pre recording a webinar, hitting resistance, but then seeing the bigger picture of how this could actually reach more people, and hitting resistance of buying the car, but then seeing how it has bigger potential and making you feel like the person you want to be and getting into that flow state where you're going to have more ideas and be more creative. So where else have you hit up against resistance? Or how do you transform that resistance into BLC? Pass it into what is possible? Oh, wow.

Melyssa Griffin 50:51
So I, for when I see resistance in my life, it's usually something where I get like a negative feeling, or I love the word that you use resistance, I usually use the word trigger, but I think resistance is so much more cleared and easy to understand. So whenever I feel that feeling of like, I'm resisting something, this is too hard. I don't want to do this. Even though I know that I really do like with the car, I kept telling myself, I'm going to get a Volvo. It's just going to be the car that I get, why would I get a Porsche it's not me. And whenever I started to notice that I was resisting something that I really wanted or something that I knew I could do. If I worked past the mindset, then that was my reminder, trigger, I guess to dig into that feeling more and, and see like what that next level looks like. So I like to look at it with excitement rather than fear. It's more of like, oh, wow, I just discovered this thing that's going to help me expand into more of who I am. Versus crap, I just discovered something that's reminding me of how small I really am. So choosing to see it with this, this view of optimism and excitement versus fear and wanting to stay small, is I think, something that's really important for anybody who wants to continue to grow throughout their life rather than stay stagnant or even, like kind of decrease in their own personal growth. So some other points of resistance for me, I think right now or in the past year, I've ran into some resistance of really wanting to shift my business message from all about starting your own business to more of how you create a holistic and amazing life that fulfills your potential. And worrying that I'm going to lose this audience that I've grown from this other thing. And I'm going to fail and suck at this new thing that I really want to do, because it is such a 180 from what I've taught before. So that's definitely a resistance that I've come up against in the last few months. And I've gone to psychics to talk about it. I've talked to basically every friend that I have about this topic, I've joined masterminds and masterminded through it. And as much as I get great advice from people, the thing that I keep coming back to is like, why did I start this business in the first place, part of it was to have fun and to leave a nine to five job that wasn't fulfilling me anymore. And if I'm just creating a business that's creating that same kind of impact in my life of not fulfilling or not fun or not exciting, that I'm basically just recreating my nine to five again. So I'm now venturing more into the side of let's just do it. And maybe it'll work out maybe it won't. But as long as it's fun. And I know that this is in alignment with what I want to be doing right now then it's the right thing.

Emily Thompson 53:36
I love all of that. I also love that we did not talk about webinars out there. I'm glad that we did. And I know their

Kathleen Shannon 53:44
dear listeners, we have like 18 questions. Because I'm also truly fascinated by a lot of the tactical trainings that you've taught, but people can find those elsewhere. I am so grateful that we got to dig into this other side of you and get a sneak peek into where you're going. And I can't wait to see how that unfolds for you. I think you've done such a brilliant job. And I also want to point out that I love that in creating that stability for yourself that might feel stifling at times like a nine to five, you have also afforded yourself in that the freedom to now play a little bit and to take risks that you might not otherwise be able to take.

Melyssa Griffin 54:27
Yeah, I think that's what, what I'm after. And what I'm trying to teach people to is just freedom, whatever that looks like for you is what you should be creating in your life.

Emily Thompson 54:36
Yeah, agreed. Oh, I love it. All right. I do. There's one question here that I am fascinated by. So we'll actually go back to the script here guys. I'm gonna talk for half a second about like daily habits and like some routines that you have to actually run the thing because we've talked a lot about a lot of like large strokes here, but like maybe some super practical like daily habits and routines that you use to get it done.

Melyssa Griffin 55:03
Yeah, I love talking about habits. The first thing I do when I wake up is I make my bed. I think there's a whole book about this, I should probably read it, but I make my bed, it's probably called make your bed. I think that's what it's called.

Emily Thompson 55:14
I think I know your response is no thing. But I probably should.

Melyssa Griffin 55:21
It takes like 30 seconds. So it's a really quick thing. And I recently got some, like throw pillows to make it look a little nicer. And I just make my bed and I make it look nice. And whenever I walk into my bedroom, because I work at home, or whenever I wake up in the morning, it just feels like this tiny piece of saying in my integrity and creativity to have that one little thing that I start the day with, it's serving my space and adding to that creative feeling. So I make my bed. And then I have all these little drinks that I make I have I tried to drink 10 cups of water per day, I actually tried to drink 15 but I usually actually come in at 10. So stay really hydrated. And then I always have a green juice. And I usually have these like tonic shots with ginger and tumeric and all that fun growth stuff in them. And then I've been getting more into like mushroom extracts and putting those like Reishi and ashwagandha core to seps in my tea or in my coffee in the morning.

Kathleen Shannon 56:18
So I'm on like a mushroom trip. Right now. sounds funny. I do know I do like lion's mane and Reishi in the evening and this like whole concoction I made cool. And then in the morning, I like to incorta steps right after my workout.

Melyssa Griffin 56:33
I love that as like a recovery machine anyway. So Woody, I'm sorry, no, nerding I love it. How do you because I've been buying blends? I've gotten some individual ones. And then I've got a blend and like I don't really know what exactly they all do. They all say that they do different things. But I'm like, I'll just put them all into one cup. And and hope that works. How did you figure out what your body needed for like after a workout or in the evening?

Kathleen Shannon 56:57
Well, I follow a couple of like those bio hacker podcasts. And so I just, if I have a hobby, it's probably fitness and supplements and blending like that stuff with the Whoo, like kind of getting on that level of things. And so I just follow a few people who love mushrooms enough that they'll sometimes talk about it. And but I've also experimented a little bit. And so that's one variable at a time. And so I noticed one evening after and again, this is like tuning in almost like with the crystals where I'm like, Am I sure that that's what kept me awake. But I might have quarter steps in the evening and feel a little bit more wired versus make sense. You know, so I don't know. But I do listen to a lot of podcasts. And that's kind of what I listened to for fun is like bio hacking stuff from people who are really into that kind of thing.

Melyssa Griffin 57:49
Cool, okay, and you just check those out, okay, keep going, Okay, and then my my, I would say like my big three, or that I read every day, I try to read every morning, before I start work, I've started this thing where I really try not to work before 11am, so that I have plenty of just expansive time to work on all this stuff. But I read I'm usually reading several books at a time, I used to be like you have to read one at a time and finish it before you start any others. And then I realized it's way more fun to have like five books and just go for the one that feels good at that moment. And then I meditate for 10 to 15 minutes in the morning and in the evening. And then I journal and I think journaling has been the biggest and most important thing that I've done for my personal growth in the past year, I adopted this thing I think Julia Cameron created it called morning pages where you journal for at least three pages every day. And it's the kind of thought behind it is that the first page, you're just talking about what you did in the past day, you're talking about the surface level stuff. And then by the second page, and definitely the third page, you're like pulling out whatever else is in there, and getting out all the stuff that you're kind of suppressing or pushing down. And that's when you really start to see your patterns. And you really start to create that self awareness and you start to see the resistance and the triggers, and also the really beautiful things in your life. And that practice alone of journaling has helped me to reconnect so much more to myself into my purpose. And to just feel really good and feel like I understand what that next level looks like or what I've worked through to get to this place. And then I end with gratitude. When in my journal, I write at least three pieces of gratitude of things that have positively impacted me in the past day. And that little routine in the morning just sets me up for feeling good, feeling more connected to myself and to this higher power in my higher self and also feeling healthy and energized for the day.

Kathleen Shannon 59:48
I love it. I have some more questions. Do it. Sorry. Sorry, not sorry. Whenever you think about I mean, this is Like probably when the right is thinking about you and interviewing you like this is an anyone who's successful or who I follow and admire and perceive as successful, or like having really made it or thinking about my listeners following them and be like, Oh, if I could just get to where Melissa Griffin is, you know, like that kind of level. Whenever you think about your success, and it could just be one word, it could be it doesn't even have to be related to business, but like, what would you say is the one thing that really has contributed or been a turning point, or made a huge impact in your success? And I'm talking like, dollar bills? Okay.

Melyssa Griffin 1:00:40
I think it kind of goes back to what we were talking, talking about in the beginning, but I think it would be community or connection, because it really all started with how can I create this online community where people feel deeply seen and where they feel like they belong. And long story short, I spent a lot of my childhood feeling like none of those things and wanting to then spend my adulthood, creating an experience for people where they did feel seen and where they did feel like they were heard, and they belonged. And I think, coming out my business, where I do a lot of marketing, and I do business II things, but coming at it from that space of wanting to create a platform where people felt connected to each other. And they felt like they could be their messy selves. And that's okay. I think that completely impacted how we were able to grow a community of people because they didn't just see it as Pinterest advice or webinar advice. It became life advice and knowing that you were supported by all these other people who are out there wanting to create that freedom in their life, too.

Kathleen Shannon 1:01:43
And then whenever you think about 2016, and you have four or five times tripled four times. Okay, anyway, your revenue by five times, whenever you think about the stress, like so kind of the flip side of this, like, whenever you think about the most stressful thing, like what do you think that was?

Melyssa Griffin 1:02:08
about why 2016 was so stressful? Yeah. That's a good question. I think a lot of it was, I think part of it actually was probably attached to my relationship with my dad, because I grew up Never feeling like I, I impressed him or did anything that he thought was worthy. And I feel like deep down part of why I started doing income reports, and part of why I really wanted to just grow and grow and grow this business was to prove to my dad that I was worth something. And I think I remember this moment of realizing, like, he would send me text and say, he was so proud of me and say, like, wow, you're doing so well with your business. This is amazing. And having it not feel like anything, and I think that was probably part of my own shift to of realizing, like, wow, I searched and tried so hard to get the approval of this person who I've forgiven, and I love. And then I got it and realize that I never needed it. And really, what was so powerful, was always inside of me, and was not something that I needed to I needed to attain from someone outside, it was always something that I needed to create from within myself. And I don't know if that answers your question, but I think that was the that was a big part of where the 2016 came from deep deep down.

Kathleen Shannon 1:03:35
It does I love that, you know, connection with your community is what made you most successful. And that connection within yourself, is what's going to continue to make you successful. Yeah, I love that. through that. I'm just gonna say what makes you feel most boss.

Melyssa Griffin 1:03:57
For me, it's being able to take time off and like do the the life living that I want to do like go on vacations, or just spend the entire day reading and not worry about my business collapsing that makes me feel super boss. I just was in Guatemala for the past few days, actually, for Pencils of Promise, that organization that we supported last year, and my team was running my business, I didn't have to check in at all. And just knowing that that was there, and I could go off to another country and have fun and support this organization. And I love was exactly the reason that I started this whole thing in the first place.

Emily Thompson 1:04:35
High five, thank you so much for sharing all of the things. I feel like this is like the most vulnerable, that we've gotten a guest in quite some time and I super appreciate you being open to sharing all of these things. And it wasn't the interview that we promised you but I think this one

Melyssa Griffin 1:04:51
is better. I like this one better. Good. where can our listeners find you so they can go to my website. Melissa Griffin calm and I name has a little funky spelling. It's me l y SSA. Or if you want to listen to my podcast, which was a product of the 2016 year and really wanting to realign myself with my purpose. It's called pursuit with purpose and it's at pursuit with purpose

Unknown Speaker 1:05:16
calm.

Emily Thompson 1:05:17
Awesome. Thanks so much. Thank you guys. You guys are awesome. Thank you so much. This is awesome. Agreed. We have gotten so much amazing feedback over the years from listeners about how our podcast has helped them start to grow and uplevel their businesses. So we want to celebrate you. Here's the boss we're celebrating this week.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:41
Hi, my name is Kim Tao and I am being boss. I help empower women in business through Creative Services, publishing and events at best creative studios calm and SAS magazine.com. This week, I am celebrating 10 years in business by combining my graphic design studio with my publishing company to form one large umbrella company called SAS studios s a s s. We are celebrating launching our new website we're celebrating sending our spring issue of staff magazine a women's lifestyle magazine to press and we're celebrating acquiring a second magazine that will will be a dog lovers lifestyle magazine. After going through a rough spell both personally and business wise last year it feels kind of boss just to say all of those things out loud in one sentence. I've been binge listening to being boss to the beambox podcast and I just wanted to say a huge thanks to both you Emily and Kathleen for helping me put some things into perspective. Thanks so much guys.

Kathleen Shannon 1:06:47
If you're feeling boss and when to submit your own boss moment or when go to WWW dot being boss club slash I am being boss. This episode of being boss was brought to you by fresh books cloud accounting, try it for free by going to fresh books comm slash being boss and special shout out to 2020 check them out at 20 twenty.com slash being boss that's t w e n t y 20 as in the number.com slash being boss. Thank you for listening to being boss. Find Articles show notes and downloads at WWW dot being boss club. Thank you so much to our team and sponsors who make being boss possible our sound engineer and web developer Corey winter. Our editorial director and content manager Caitlin brain our community manager and social media director Sharon lukey and are being countered David Austin, with support from braid creative and indicia biography,

Emily Thompson 1:07:43
do the work. Be boss and we'll see you next week.