Finding Your Creative Flow with Pamela Chen

Welcome to Being Boss, a podcast for creatives, business owners and entrepreneurs who want to take control of their work and live life on their own terms. I'm your host Emily Thompson and in this episode I'm joined by author and tarot deck creator Pamela Chen to talk about stepping into the flow of creativity, changing your mindset about what's possible, and sharing a message from the owls. You can find all the tools, books and links we reference on the show notes at www.beingboss.club. And if you liked this episode, be sure to subscribe to the show and share us with a friend.

Emily Thompson 0:35

Whether you're a full time boss or dabbling in a side hustle learning from those who have already been there, done that is a powerful way to give you a leg up on your own journey. To help you gather those lessons and inspiration que up an episode of the Side Hustle Pro podcast hosted by Nicaila Matthews Okome, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network the audio destination for business professionals. Join host Nicaika to learn actionable strategies to start small and get going wherever and whoever you are, as she interviews inspiring black women entrepreneurs, like Ashley Reynolds in episode number 309. In a conversation about how Ashley launched and grew the popular stationery brand Cloth and Paper, a special one for all of you planner loving and bosses out there. Listen to Side Hustle Pro wherever you get your podcasts.

Emily Thompson 1:29

Pamela Chen is a psychic business mentor and money manifesting coach. She helps high achieving powerful creatives and visionaries access potentials and opportunities from the quantum field and Akashic records through expanding their energetic awareness to infinite possibilities and real magic. In doing so her clients have manifested with ease grace and flow feeling abundantly rich in all areas of their lives, not just their bank accounts. Pamela is also a published author and deck creator with Llewellyn Worldwide having already published Witchling Academy Tarot, Enchanted Crystal Magic and Tarot of the Owls. She is also an author with Hay House and US games with decks coming out after 2024. When she is not writing or coaching. She loves to cuddle with her chickens, watch Korean drama and eat spicy Cheeto Puffs with avocado. Pamela has previously been on this show and episodes number 255 and 269. Hi, Pamela, welcome back to Being Boss.

Pamela Chen 2:33

Hi, Emily. Hi, everyone. I'm so excited to be back.

Emily Thompson 2:36

I'm so excited to see your happy face.

Pamela Chen 2:40

Really exciting.

Emily Thompson 2:43

It's been a minute since we've been able to chat, but we've been in touch a bit over email, I know that you've been doing so many things over the past forever. You're just one of those really like prolific creators, which is always incredibly fascinating to me. But I think in order to get started, I'd like to just hear what you've been up to. So the last time you were here for recording was October of 2021, which was almost a year and a half ago, which is crazy, right? That was over a year ago. Isn't that well to think about? Yeah. So why don't you update us? What have you been up to? And in business or life, whatever you want to share since we last had you on the show?

Pamela Chen 3:26

Yeah, so I think the last time I came on the show, I just quit my job. And so that was like a big shift. And it's been great. It's been great ever since I did Ayahuasca. I actually separated from my business partner. So 2022 was the whole year about rebuilding, rebranding and I tried a lot of things which were great. And I think right now I'm in a really good place and building the foundation for what is to come. I am at nine publishing contracts right now. Or nine or 10 There's a lot it's all coming out. And I won a Hay House contract with my co writer Alex Galactic Star Tarot. So that has led me into working with a lot of Extra Terrestrial Energy.

Emily Thompson 4:23

Yeah.

Pamela Chen 4:23

Cosmic magic. And it really expanded me even more into like the quantum field in where I was doing like the manifestations in. like there's been crazy stuff happening in my life.

Emily Thompson 4:34

Nice amazing I'm sorry to hear about your split from your business partner. That is a difficult thing. Even like if it's amicable. It's hard. If it's not amicable, it's even harder. But there is some real magic that comes from you just like doing your thing. And congrats on all of those contracts. That is incredibly impressive.

Pamela Chen 4:59

Thank you. Thank you.

Emily Thompson 5:01

Are they all decks? Are you writing books? Like what? What are all these things?

Pamela Chen 5:06

So the Tarot of the owls is actually coming out March 2023. Yay. So when we're doing this the next deck that comes out with Llewellyn is Steampunk Faerie Tarot. So that's gonna be fun. The artist is amazing. Ashley Cassaday, we have joy. Well, I don't really know the title yet. So it's like Asian magic book. That's I'm co writing with my friend Samantha, who's also Asian. I think that was gonna be really good. We had to rewrite almost the whole thing because we have to change the vision around how we were approaching the book because we came with a different energy than what the publishers thought it was gonna be.

Emily Thompson 5:50

Yeah.

Pamela Chen 5:51

So that's always fun. Next is Caticorn. Like a cat unicorn.

Emily Thompson 5:57

Oh my god, yes.

Pamela Chen 5:58

So that's all done to just waiting for, this is with us games. So they are going to just waiting for them to print. I guess. That's almost done. And after that, I have a magic manifestation spells book, I believe is coming out with Llewellyn. The last contract that we signed was Galactic Star Tarot. So Alex and I wanted to do a deck together. And I think we're gonna do something else, which we might still do, but I wasn't really feeling it. And then I was like, cuz she's a Galactic Priestess. She studies all of that Atlantis, Lemuria everything. And I was like, No, we need to do this. And she's like, let's do it. So we pivoted, and I did pitch it to Llewellyn first because they're my main publisher. It's just their audience is more like earthbound magic, which, you know, so more traditional. So they did not understand what anything was. She was like, what does this mean? So they turned it down, which is okay, it was like everything was in synchronicity. And Alex is like, why don't we pitch it to Hay House? And I'm like, Well, you need an agent? Or do you need to be in the writing program? And she's like, I'm in the writing program. I was like, let's do it. I know, because you pay to get in.

Emily Thompson 5:58

Yeah.

Pamela Chen 6:08

And I was like, let's do it. And so I think it was within a month or two, we channeled the it was like the best proposal I've ever written. We submit it and it was really a really fun process, because you have to turn in like a video of you introducing yourself. So you know, like on Vimeo, you can see when they look at it. So every time they looked at it, we're like, oh, and towards the announcement date, which is like August 2022. They looked at it like seven times in one week or something. And we were like, we're definitely in the final.

Emily Thompson 7:58

Y'all were on it.

Pamela Chen 7:59

You can feel that energy right and then Reid Tracy actually called her in person to like, congratulate. And I just remember her calling me and we were just like screaming. And I think he said, we were the only Tarot that's ever won this contest.

Emily Thompson 8:16

Amazing.

Pamela Chen 8:17

Yeah, that's big.

Emily Thompson 8:18

Amazing. You're doing so many things. So many things. I love hearing about it. And I feel like I have so many questions for you today. Every other time we've ever had you on the show. We've talked about manifesting, which is would you say that's like your jam?

Pamela Chen 8:32

Yes.

Emily Thompson 8:33

Yeah?

Pamela Chen 8:33

Manifestation.

Pamela Chen 8:34

Ok, Love it.

Emily Thompson 8:35

So like manifesting is your jam. But I would like to throw it in there that I think you're an incredibly creative person as well.

Pamela Chen 8:44

I got lots of ideas.

Emily Thompson 8:45

Yeah, yeah, lots of ideas. And you are actually actively creating, I mean, you are in the middle of a lot of projects. And they're all a different, you know, points of the process and those sorts of things. But you are in an incredibly creative phase of your career, which I absolutely love seeing. And it's something that anytime I see someone in this sort of like high creativity phase, I want to dive in, because you're in it, you're in it and you're experiencing it, I think you'll have a really great perspective on this time in your career in like 10 years, right, you're gonna look back and go like I was doing, what was I even thinking, right? Or like, it felt so amazing. I was just like, an open channel, whatever it may be. But while you're in it, I really want to dive into this experience of your creativity. I want to hear about your process how it is that you're harnessing it where the hell is coming from like all these things, because you are really just doing it but I'll start easy. And that is how are you cultivating it? How are you cultivating and like maintaining the stream of energy in your life and work right now.

Pamela Chen 9:57

So I do work on my energy I have magical practices every single day. Rituals that I do. So when you are in that space of intention, then you are an open channel, right? And so whatever it is that you desire, even if it's creative ideas, will flow in. And if you train yourself, and it's something that I've trained myself to be aware of these ideas coming in, then that's the first step because you're always getting ideas. You just might, it's in your own voice. And you might just think, oh, no, that's just a random thought. But it really isn't. That's like your that's your muse. That's your creativity. Yeah.

Emily Thompson 10:40

Yeah, I agree with that, or I don't need to agree with it. But that has been my experience with it as well, I would say, there is this like, some people would call her the muse, right, or like this little inner voice that tells you what to do and when to do it. And if you're not either opening yourself up to it or otherwise listening, it's so easy to either miss, or write off, or, you know, make up excuses or whatever it may be. And so, I love that you bring that up, because it's something that I experienced, often I like, I try to walk every day for, like quiet, like, I'm not listening to a podcast, I'm not listening to music. And it's silence because I need to, like, quiet my brain to listen to the voice, whatever it may be. And so I love that you say that you are doing that. And that that's sort of the wellspring of this creativity.

Pamela Chen 11:37

Yeah, I you know, one time, I don't know what project it was for, I forgot. But I did do you know, I don't really work out, but I was trying to work out. And that's also the key try, you have to try stuff like you get this idea you have to try. But I was trying to work out and I was like doing this 15 minute workout video on YouTube. And then I was like, oh, and I was just laying down. And you know, I was exhausted. And then like, this idea downloaded, I was like, Oh, let me go write that down and see what comes of it?

Emily Thompson 12:07

Yeah. Do you ever go through periods where you're not getting creative ideas? Or have you just like, figured it out?

Pamela Chen 12:14

I just kind of go, so I know, my flow. And I know, sometimes it's time for me to create new things. I know, sometimes it's for me to finish new things. And I try not to put pressure on myself to I need an idea right now. And so that leaves it open to it can come any single time. Right? It could just come, Tarot of the Owls, I was actually working on another deck. And then it was like you need to create an owl deck. There is none out there. And I was like I do. And so I pivoted and in three days, I wrote 78 card descriptions, the artwork, and I wrote the entire proposal. So Tarot of the Owls was like, it was just like your this is it. And I was just like it this is it. Like now I know the feeling. And so you have to figure out what that feeling is for you. And some ideas won't work. And that's okay. Like the idea was working on for months. You know, and it's okay. It was like the stepping stone to this one.

Emily Thompson 13:17

Sure. Okay. This is kind of a personal question. It's not, it's not a personal question for you. It's a personal question from me. But I'm wondering if you ever experienced this? Because I'm no stranger to big magic moments for sure. I've definitely had my fair share. And I know more or less the situations, I need to be in to open that up for myself, sometimes it still doesn't come. Do you experience that? And if you do, what do you do about it?

Pamela Chen 13:48

I think so. So there's so much that goes into that, right?

Emily Thompson 13:52

Yeah.

Pamela Chen 13:52

There's so much pieces that can be put into place. So what what I actually taught my clients, the beginning of 2023, is to write down 111 wishes. So because your mind is the supercomputer, right, your mind is a supercomputer. And so it's always busy. And if you don't give it something to do, it's gonna find its own thing to do, which is probably your subconscious programming that we don't want manifested. So we give it something to do. And so the one if we give it one big thing, then sometimes we get really focused on it. And we actually like kind of block ourself in a way of receiving other things that leads us to the big thing. So I would say desire, a lot of things, desire a lot of things and let miracles happen. So miracles are when things come in as a surprise. Like it gets. It's just like we didn't expect the Hay House thing. It wasn't something I focused on every single day, right? I didn't. I didn't but when it when it came, then I did the magic. You know, we met up, we went to the Akashic records, we did the spell work like we made it happen, right. So I think that's the thing, like, seed it, seed it in, and then allow what the universe wants you to do to do to happen, because we're not in control of that. And then do the work. Do the energetic do the magic work to make it happen.

Emily Thompson 15:19

Hmm, lovely. Okay, there you go. Everybody 111 wishes, give your brain something to do. And it's funny you say that one of the things that I also coach on a lot is just is creating a want list I had so powerful, I think that does two things. In my point of view, it does two things to sort of create a list like this, whatever it looks like for you. One, there's like a manifestation thing going on. But two, it's a really important practice, for both honing in on what it is that you want, which is not something that a lot of us do. And it requires you to claim it in a way that not a lot of us do. And just the energetic level of that like manifestation aside, we've all got to, there's some unlearning that we need to do. Right? Around wanting things like world, you shouldn't want that. Right? There's lots of shoulds are like, You should be happy with what you have. And yes, you should. And you can also want something. So I love that you bring that up. That's one of my favorite practices, for some even just entrepreneur mindset stuff. But 111 wishes for getting the gears rolling and opening you up to whatever fun surprises and or jokes the universe has in store for you.

Pamela Chen 16:44

Yes.

Emily Thompson 16:45

Love it. Okay, so you're doing a lot of creativity, you're keeping yourself incredibly open to it, you are following things when they come up? Okay, another question just popped up for me. Do you know the difference between a good idea like a muse idea, and like a half baked, like, my brain is just too busy idea?

Pamela Chen 17:06

So, not really, sometimes no, you have to write the idea down, like when ever i get an idea, I'll write it down. I'll see. So I'm in the moment, people think I work fast because I work in the energy of the idea. So if you if I have a task to do for my business, I like to finish it right away, because I'll lose the energy in like a week. And then I won't get it done. If I just like, like to focus on it and do it now. And that's what I do with my ideas. And if it comes to a point where it gets stuck, because you know, sometimes you're you don't know what else to do with it. I'll let it sit for a while I won't obsess over it. And then I'll come back to it and see if I can get unstuck. If I can't get unstuck. It's probably for later. That's how that's what, but if it's in the flow, then that means it's supposed to be created right now. Now, I'm not saying that all my ideas, get contracts. I've got rejections before, right. And I think back in 2000, I don't know 2010. I tried to create a tarot deck, that was not a tarot deck. It was some kind of deck, and it didn't work. So you just have to keep going and try.

Emily Thompson 18:18

Yeah. Oh, lovely. I appreciate that clarification. And really, it's that the ideas that are right for right now have the energy that allows for follow through.

Pamela Chen 18:32

Yes.

Emily Thompson 18:33

Is sort of what I'm hearing. Perfect. I also hear often, you know, bosses who are like you have a couple of ideas or trying to decide which to do, maybe they all have energy. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. But one of the things that I always tell them is, sometimes there's not a right or wrong path. Sometimes there is just the path you're going to choose. And you make it right. So I'm wondering when it comes to choosing which one let's say a couple projects have energy, what does that look like for you?

Pamela Chen 19:06

Then I work on all of them.

Emily Thompson 19:08

Do them all!

Pamela Chen 19:09

I can, I know my energy. So I know that I'm able to make space and time and creativity for all of them. I do. And the publishers are really nice. They you know, because since I signed a bunch of projects with Llewellyn at the same time, they made sure that my deadlines weren't like back to back, you know, they didn't like rush me or anything, and they'll work with you. I think mostly it really does come down to your belief. So I believe that creativity is always flows to me, I always have clarity. I believe that I always make the right decision and it's like really easy for me to create and write. So I like easy flow and fun. If it can be easy flow and fun then I'm in so I don't love editing but I love editing. I love editing editing is the best and so I literally have to do mindset work on myself. When I get the edits back, especially when it's like 22 pages of edits, I'm like ah.

Emily Thompson 20:08

Lovely. Okay, I appreciate that clarification, too. You have such a great energy around all of this. I hope everyone is just soaking this up. Because they feel like artists and creatives tend to like, oh, tend to think of sometimes either creativity and or the lack of creativity as a burden. Right? Like, there's this idea that I need to work on next, or you know, I don't have any ideas like something is wrong with me, but you, it sounds like you are so in the flow of just whatever needs attention when it needs it. That it's not a burden. It's a fun opportunity.

Pamela Chen 20:44

Yeah, you know, I would, I always think, how am I going to think of another idea, but it comes. And I do try to reprogram myself all the time, that I have so much amazing ideas that I that gets contracts from the publishers, you know, make it very detailed about your belief. And every time something happens, it'll fuel that belief and make it real.

Emily Thompson 21:10

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Emily Thompson 22:09

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Emily Thompson 23:19

Next questions are around collaborations because you're doing a lot of collaborations. It sounds like with a lot of different people, you're working on several different kinds of products. You're both working with, like very creative collaborators, but also publishing is a collaboration in itself working with publishers. How do you fit your creativity in with collaboration?

Pamela Chen 23:43

So it's always it's not like I'm looking for someone thing. It's more like, you know, randomly we're talking and then I'm just like, oh, or they were like we should do this. And I'm like, let's do it. And I always find, so I have my strength and they have their strength. So how can we put this together? And if it's not something that they can do themselves, this at this time, then we can and I know how to do it and let's do it together. So for like Alex Alex and mine's deck at the Galactic Star Society. I was only tapping in a little bit to star seeds. And I was only a little bit curious. It's fun for me, but I didn't know anything about it. And obviously she's the expert. So I was a Tarot expert. I knew how to create decks. I know how to put together a proposal. And so that was an amazing collaboration. And I she actually used to be a client of mine. So I know that she works. Right? I know she could type. I know that she works and she has integrity. And so we actually had our Vedic Astrology read, too. And so we knew that we would be a really good business partner and we created actually a membership off of the deck that the guides were like get it out now, like it didn't want to wait for the deck to come out in 2025 it was like out now. And so it was like really cool to see how that collaboration just like blew up and six months. Yeah.

Emily Thompson 25:16

That's fascinating. Good. I also love the lightness with which you take your creativity into collaboration as well. Like for real. If I'm talking to most creatives like yes, you know, we had to pull in another designer, like, you know, this writer sort of came and, and the publisher sent notes, and they wanted to change the direction or whatever, but you have such a lightness, even about this part of the process where you're not being super precious about your creativity shining on its own, but you're really understanding that the act of collaboration itself makes for a better finished product.

Pamela Chen 25:53

It does, because the publishers are experts in what they do. They publish amazing books, they know what needs to be changed. And if they usually if they tell unless it's something that we're like, no, but usually, if they tell me something, I'm like, Okay, right, like it's not. So I think in creating, especially a deck or writing a book, things are going to change. So if you hold on to the original idea, that's when you're going to get stuck, you have to allow because we're co creating this together, right? It is your book, it is your deck, it is your idea. But there's so many people that puts their magic into it. And it makes it really amazing if you allow everybody's skills and abilities to help you.

Emily Thompson 26:37

Yeah, oh, this is such a fresh take. I'm loving it absolutely loving it. I feel the air around me literally lightning as you're as you're talking about all of these things. It's it's it's really, it's really beautiful. It's really beautiful to hear all of these things. Then let's talk about your creative process. So you've shared a bit about the ideation and we understand that you are collaborating on a lot of things. But maybe what's your favorite part of the creative process? Like where do you feel like you are really like doing your best job?

Pamela Chen 27:12

I like the the beginning. Like the beginning where I'm just like the idea and then writing the proposal. Like that's my favorite. And then I have to write it right.

Emily Thompson 27:23

Yep.

Pamela Chen 27:24

But the beginning part and getting the contract is like, oh, and then after. And then you know the writing part. I actually it took me a while even after three contracts to really believe that I was an author because I never went to college. I didn't write and I don't remember writing an essay in high school at all. I think we just watched surfing videos in senior English class like it was we did oral book reports.

Emily Thompson 27:54

Yeah.

Pamela Chen 27:54

And so writing to me, I learned how to write through business copywriting. So writing to me was, was a block, actually. And I had to tell myself that you're an amazing writer, you're great at editing. And so it was a reprogram for me to get to where I am today.

Emily Thompson 28:12

Sure. Oh, love it. Okay, so you are great at ideating it sounds like you have found your flow in that when it comes to then doing the work that you find less exciting. How do you show up and, the editing, the editing that you love, but you air quotes love. How do you get yourself through those parts of the process?

Pamela Chen 28:37

So owl, Taro had one one thing to edit. That was the best. But the other ones had a lot of pages. And so I would first be like, but my editors are very, they're very nice, actually. They like called us and was like don't worry, you know, and they were very nice. And if we have any questions, we can ask them. The editing, I let myself you know, feel the oh my gosh, this is kind of overwhelming because it is sometimes and then I get neutral about it. And then I will do like tapping or something or I will change my energy somehow. And I'll get really pumped up and I'll be like, Okay, I'm ready to edit. This is the best edit ever. And actually, when I go into edit, it's easier than what I made it out to be you know what I mean? I thought it's like I made it to be such a big thing, but it wasn't.

Emily Thompson 29:38

Yeah, I think when you see all of those like I mean, they may not come as red marks but what is the equivalent of red marks. It may just be like changing a to an but it looks awful on that piece of paper.

Pamela Chen 29:51

It's more like rewrite that what does this sentence mean? And I'm like, that's what it means.

Emily Thompson 29:57

Right? I said it.

Pamela Chen 29:59

Or where did you get this from? I'm like, I channeled it. Like I didn't get it from a book like, I don't know. So like stuff like that you had to like explain.

Emily Thompson 30:09

Sure, sure. Okay. Let's talk about this new deck. I think it's time to go in that direction. Because Tarot of the Owls, sounds like you had a great idea. And like, an insane amount of energy that allowed you to do this whole thing in three days, you get it back you had one edit or edit on one of them. Like, this sounds like an incredibly magical experience. I'd love to hear more about that.

Pamela Chen 30:40

Yeah, so I don't know. I mean, if ask yourself, why isn't there an owl tarot yet? Owls are on almost every deck, at least on the moon, right? It's almost on every deck out there on every tarot deck, and it's a very magical animal. It's a guide, you know, owls are guides, they're guardians. And so I was just like, why is there no owl decks? And actually, they were hesitant about taking this. The only reason I got the contract and this was synchronicity too, was because I reached out to Elizabeth Alba, who is the artist of the Tarot the owls and everyday which Tarot which did amazing right, number one sells, I believe, probably. And I was in contact with her because we did collaborations together another collaboration giveaways. And so I reached out and I said, Look, I just submitted, Owl Tarot, and I would love for you to be the, the artists of the I hope they asked you. And she's like, I want to do it. And I was like, really? And so I messaged Barbara Morh who is my project manager. I was like Barb, Elizabeth says, she'll be my artists, and then Barb email back like no way because she was on maternity leave or something. She wasn't taking projects, and they love her. And so she's like, if she so the committee, they go to the committee come back, and they're like, if she is your artist, then you get this contract. Of like she's in she's in? Yeah.

Emily Thompson 32:10

Wonderful.

Pamela Chen 32:11

That was cool.

Emily Thompson 32:12

That it all sounds very synchronistic. Right. These little things falling into place so that it becomes so easy that you literally are just like a vessel edge has to open your mouth and it falls out.

Pamela Chen 32:26

Yes, the owls were very surprising and easy.

Emily Thompson 32:29

You know what's really funny about this, I'm going to draw a fun little magical parallel, I was talking to mAIA Toll, who I did a whole lot of masterminding with a couple of years ago, who is the author of The Illustrated Herbiary. And then she also did the Bestiary and Crystallary as well. And I think she shared it here on this podcast before she she channeled all three of those books, and you know, the way that you do and she said that when she was writing the Bestairy theory, because if you look at that book, there are multiple owls. And the beast here. He said the owls would not stop coming through. And that she had to Yeah, she had to tell them to stop like I cannot. This is not the owlary. This is a bestiary theory, and I cannot put another owl in here. We're gonna have to do something else. So I love that. She like put a stopper on the owls. And then they came to you and you just gave them their whole deck.

Pamela Chen 33:29

I wonder what the timeline was because I channeled this in 2018.

Emily Thompson 33:34

So let's look. Let's see when the Bestiary came out.

Pamela Chen 33:40

Yeah, that would be really cool

Emily Thompson 33:42

Bestiary book.

Pamela Chen 33:43

But you don't know when she When did she write it though? Because the comes out way later, you know what I mean.

Emily Thompson 33:48

came out in October of 2019. So she would have done it in 2017 2018. Right. So it sounds like they left her and came to you. And now they have their spot and a whole deck.

Pamela Chen 34:03

They have their spot a whole deck. Yeah.

Emily Thompson 34:06

Okay, well, did you have any experience with owls beforehand? Or was this really just a drop in your head kind of thing?

Pamela Chen 34:14

I've always had like an affinity with the owl and I have the owl tattoo from like, over 15 years ago.

Emily Thompson 34:22

Yeah.

Pamela Chen 34:23

It's a cartoon one. And I just always see them as some, you know, a guide with a lot of wisdom and with protection, and also really related to ancestors and they bring and really magical and they're with almost like a lot of the goddesses right? In every almost every realm. And so I've always I have I've always loved owls and I don't know why I didn't think of it sooner. Right?

Emily Thompson 34:52

They weren't ready yet. They weren't ready yet. Until they were ready. Okay, beautiful. Then you tell us why are the owls here? I would love to hear like, what message are they bringing to us to the collective. And you know, if we can sort of narrow it into how they could help creative business owners, that's cool. But what is that overarching message of the owls for right now.

Pamela Chen 35:18

So the owls actually bring in miracles. So I didn't realize that until I got the deck in my hand. So they are, so the owls in this deck are owl guardians. And they are from a realm. So they are not from another planet, or they're not from our planet, but they are in another realm, which they rule. And they have a volt of wisdom, that if you ask, and this teaches you to ask, and then teaches you to step forward first. Which entrepreneurs do leaders do leaders lead, right, we take the first step. So if you don't ask, how do they know that you need to receive the wisdom. So when you speak what you desire, when you ask for the things that you desire, then you will, you will get a surprise from the owls, like, you know, Keep coming, keep coming to you. And you might not want it to stop. You might want it to stop, you might not want it to stop. But it will be a very, and it teaches you I think it teaches you not to be so in control of your life, right. So I know that we always want we want this to happen and has to happen like this, but allows you to like spread your wings and just like go with the currents. And actually they swoop in. So whatever. When you are working with owls, I feel like things actually move a little bit faster. A little bit more in the quantum were things that you wanted, maybe in five years comes in like two to three years. So the owls really allows you for that because you're free, you allow things to happen instead of trying to control them.

Emily Thompson 36:58

Nice. There you go. Everybody little message from the owls straight from the owl channeler. Fantastic. That's very fascinating. As you were sitting down and and you mentioned that some of this came from you literally having in your hand, which is you know, at that point a year plus, after you actually sit down and write out, tell me a bit more about like that initial three days of sitting down and creating this deck, like, what did that process look like? What sort of came out first, et cetera.

Pamela Chen 37:37

So my deck creation is pretty much the same, I actually, I mean, free flow, but I do follow a formula. So I see if I can create the artwork or the description for the majors first, see if I can actually put them on a tarot deck, if that makes sense. Which with animals, I feel like are magical animals. It's very easy, right? And so that came out first. So majors were easy, then I see if they can put into the suit, then I'll do though, the, you know, the court cards, I do them separately, and it came out easy. Like it came out easy. And then that's when I start to tap into creating the actual proposal on where do they come from? Why are they here? How are they going to help the readers? You know, kind of like a business? What is your niche? What is your brand? How what problem are you solving. So this one was, the owls really wanted to help the reader tap into their wisdom, the creativity and their intuition. So being open, and being aware of what is coming through for you, because they know that we are as powerful. So it's not that the owls hold so much wisdom, it's they just kind of help guide you to remember the wisdom that you already have within you. It's not looking out there, the universe is not going to give you anything. It's you giving it to yourself.

Emily Thompson 38:59

That is such a beautiful message. And I think that I think we have so much to learn from from that sort of perspective. And I love that that's what the process looks like. Do you find that the more you create decks that it's, it's becoming easier or is it equally challenging every time?

Pamela Chen 39:18

I think it's easier. And I do feel like I'm getting better in writing. Right like putting words together. And so it's a lot of I think it actually gets more fun because now I have like the basics down on how to. So my first, the Witchling Academy Tarot. I think I had to write the manuscript for the guidebook three times, because I didn't know how to write Tarot. So I didn't know how to write the story of the deck with Tarot. I was either writing the whole story no Tarot or too much Tarot.

Emily Thompson 39:55

Yeah. Good. So it sounds like you're creating this really amazing process. Really amazing foundation as well as process that sort of expedites the creativity once you have it all set up.

Pamela Chen 40:10

Yes, yes, I think for entrepreneurs can relate when they're building their their modules right there their program, once you build one, the next one is easier.

Emily Thompson 40:20

For sure, for sure you start like putting these things in your tool belt, and so much easier to pull them out and repurpose them for later. Well, this has been an amazing look inside of the process for creating this deck and your creative process. I mean, I really feel incredibly inspired to chill out about creativity in general, for sure. Because I feel like it's easy to get like our you know, creative panties in a bunch, right? We like need things to work out the way exactly what we want to we need to express ourselves in exactly the way we like go out doing and Boo collaboration that we're I'm, I'm not boo collaboration by any means. But a lot of creatives can be and you've brought such a lightness to this that I find truly inspiring. And I hope I hope everyone got a nice little nugget out of that. And really just this lesson that you just let it go and get the ball rolling, everything just becomes significantly easier.

Pamela Chen 41:12

Choose. Choose that it's easy. So you have to decide that it's easy. It's fast. You'd love change, right? And if you don't, then if you want to then make yourself believe, like I did.

Emily Thompson 41:24

Yeah, exactly. This has been incredibly inspiring, Pamela. Thank you so much for coming and sharing all of these things with us is that there's the deck out. Amazon says it's out now you were like, I don't know what's happening with that deck. Can people buy it? And if so, where should they go?

Pamela Chen 41:41

So you know, the owls are fun. So they dropped it in early at the warehouse. And so they were like, let's release it two months early. And then you know, you have to like ship it to Amazon and then got sold out. And so it was out and now it's out. By March. It should be all out. Llewellyn has the deck unless it's sold out. Yay, and we need to order more, but you won't be able to get your deck somewhere somehow. Even Barnes and Nobles has them. Amazon. Llewellyn worldwide or any of your metaphysical stores should have them and if not, they can order it. Because they all get a Llewelyn catalog.

Emily Thompson 42:20

Yeah, no, I'm gonna be carrying this one in the Being Boss. And then the Being Boss in the Almanac shop. For more.

Pamela Chen 42:30

Can you take picture and tag me? Let me know.

Emily Thompson 42:34

Absolutely. Well, I'm very excited about this deck. I think it's it's it is incredibly beautiful. If you haven't, you know, if you haven't shopped in Google yet, go Google it and look it up. It's incredibly beautiful. I can't wait to get my hands on it and, and have it in the store. I think it's going to be totally cool. And I always especially have a deep connection to things when I know the person who created them. And I can hear the story of how they were created. I think this is this is a really cool piece of, of tarot work that you've done here.

Pamela Chen 43:03

Yeah, thank you so much. This is so fun. Of course.

Emily Thompson 43:07

Okay, where can folks find more about you these days and what it is that you're up to?

Pamela Chen 43:13

So I am on Instagram at pamelaunicorn. That is the easiest place to find me to see everything that I'm doing. I always post about it. It's in my highlights. It's in the link up in my bio. Everything is there. Easy.

Emily Thompson 43:27

Perfect. And last but not least, what's making you feel most boss?

Pamela Chen 43:34

I think just having the creation since we're talking about creativity, when it becomes a physical thing in your hand. Yeah, like when I got even though I knew it's coming out. But whenever you get that thing in your hand physical, it's or when you get the clients in your group. It's like, oh, this is the most amazing thing ever.

Emily Thompson 43:55

Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that. The the physical manifestations of your creativity, right? Yes. Lovely. All right. Pamela, this has been great. Thanks for coming in chat.

Pamela Chen 44:07

Thank you, Emily. Thank you Being Boss community.

Emily Thompson 44:12

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